82: Beating the Odds: Christine Handy's Powerful Transformation from Cancer to Courage!

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Hello and welcome. I'm Dr. Jen Simmons, a breast cancer surgeon turned integrative oncologist on a groundbreaking mission to transform the conversation around breast health. If you're seeking to redefine the way that you think about breast health, you're in the right place. Breast health isn't just an aspect of well being. It is health, integral and indispensable. Here on the Keeping Abreast podcast, we delve deep into the innovative ways to diagnose, treat, screen for, and prevent breast cancer. But it's more than that. It's about having the crucial conversations that empower, enlighten, and drive us all to a healthier place. As someone who has navigated the front lines of breast cancer treatment and now champions an integrative approach, I bring a unique perspective to these discussions with blending rigorous science with holistic health principles. Health is a journey, not a destination, and I am truly honored to accompany you on this path. Each episode aims to provide you with actionable insights and cutting edge strategies to take charge of your breast health and.

Your overall well being.

So whether you're here to learn about the latest in medical advancements or seeking tips on lifestyle changes that foster real health, they the Keeping Abreast podcast is your go to resource. Let's embark on this journey together, because when we talk health, every conversation matters. And now, stay tuned for this week's episode.

For any of you that follow the podcast, that follow me, that listen to me, you know that I do things differently, that I see things differently. And despite the fact that I am a conventionally trained physician, a conventionally trained surgeon, a conventionally trained oncologist, I had my own experience that allowed me to step out and see this world of breast cancer in a different way. And it gave me tremendous perspective and led me to the path that I'm on. And I'm so grateful for that. Certainly not for my diagnosis and not for having to be sick and not for having to claw my way back to health, but for the opportunity to see the world and see my profession and see my potential in a different way. I have someone here with me today who is so special, whose story is so touching, so amazing, so moving, and you're going to get to see her story on the big screen because the movie of the book that she wrote, which is a fictional, truthful depiction of the journey that she went on, is coming out in March. So first, let me welcome Christine Handy. I am so delighted to have you here. Deeply, deeply touched and honored, and I'm. I'm excited for my community to get to hear from you.

Thank you. It's nice to be here.

So if you haven't had the opportunity to read your book, walk beside me. For all of you that are watching and not listening, this is a really, really moving story and triggered a lot of things for me, mostly because I'm really a surgeon at heart. And your experience with surgeons was not good. And it really, deeply, deeply bothered me. I mean, it was really troubling for me to read your book and hear your story. So I know obviously you can't summarize it all, but can you give us like, the podcast version of your story so that for those who haven't had a chance to read your book yet, they can, they can get some insight into what you went through and, you know, don't leave the juicy stuff out.

Well, you know, what I went through is, is a good way to start because I'm not a victim and the whole victim mentality is not part of my life. But I will say that I immersed myself in a profession starting at a young age in the modeling industry. I started modeling when I was 11 years old, and it ultimately became my life's journey through that. Well, through that profession, but also the background of the profession. Right. It's very externally based. My whole world was externally based. But that's not to say that the industry forced me to be completely externally based. I as well, was focused mostly on materialism, the things outside of me. And I missed the stage of my life that was more introspective when we become young adult women, where you realize that the external isn't as important as how you feel about yourself. I completely missed that season of my life.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I kind of got the sense that that was very much part of your upbringing, that there was a lot of focus on the external, on what people saw, on the perception of what your. Your appearance was, what your person was, what your house was, what your neighborhood was, what your school was. Right. I got the sense that, that, that very much came from your upbringing.

Well, it was a stronghold in my life for sure, but part of it was self induced. Yes, of course, I had the means to live a certain way, but when it becomes your focus, that's self induced. And so I try again. A lot of my. I try to take responsibility for my portion of what happened in my life. And my life is not flattering. You know, people think, oh, this was a international model, very successful. And yes, that's, that's lovely. And that's part of my story. But, you know, I became, I was hospitalized for anorexia and bulimia when I was 21, and that was a big part of my story. And ultimately I started to have some pretty major illnesses, and that started about the age of 35. First, I had a colon resection, which, you know, I didn't even know what that meant until I actually had it. And I woke up with a port in my neck. Again, I'd never seen a port in my life. I lived this very privileged life, and.

It felt like what the colon resection was for.

So I had a twisted colon. You know, when you, you're a surgeon, you'll understand this. When you have babies and you're very thin, that can put a lot of pressure on your colon. It can stretch it out. So mine became very stretched out during my pregnancies, and it ultimately twisted.

Yeah. And honest with you, I never heard of that. And I, before I was, before I had decided to specialize in breast cancer, I actually matched at the Cleveland Clinic. I know you spent a lot of time there. I matched at the Cleveland Clinic for colorectal surgery. That's the fellowship I was going to do. So I've done all lot of colon resections. I never heard of the colon stretching because of pregnancy and thin women. So that was a part. I, I, I was dying to ask you why that was done, because when I was reading the book, I, I was like, I, I, I'm not, I'm not getting why she needed it. Now, some people have redundancy, like, too much, and they have motility problems. So. Okay, all right, please continue. Sorry for the interruption.

No, no, no.

Like, this is so, all of it is so fascinating to me because I'm, I have my surgery hat on throughout the book, and I'm like, oh, my God, I wanted to crawl out of my skin.

So, okay, we'll go back to the colon part of the story. And interestingly enough, I wake up with a port in my neck and a blood transfusion. 1 of 2. I just had one during surgery, and I almost bled to death in the surgery. And the doctor comes in and he throws himself on my hospital bed. Is like, I'm so sorry. Now that's a guy that doesn't have an ego complex, doesn't have a God complex. And I thought, okay, the guy made a mistake, right? He nicked a bone. A bone. He nicked a vein in one of my bones.

And yeah, that, that part didn't make sense to me either.

What did he Hit.

What vessel did he hit? The iliac.

Something in my pelvic bones. And I didn't even know you had blood.

You don't. So that was your.

Yeah, my perception.

He. Yeah, he hit the iliac vein. That's why you think. You think it's a bone, because we do have an iliac bone, but he hit the iliac vein that's lying in the posterior part of the pelvis. So, I mean, that's what I was thinking about the whole time. Like, oh, my God, did he hit the iliac?

Well, most of. Because I almost bled to death. Yes. So that.

That's a disaster. I mean, the only other than that is the vena cava, and I've been in on vena cava repairs. You'd, like, try to put a stitch in. It's like sewing tissues together.

Right. Well, not only did I wake up with a port in my neck, I also woke up with. From hip to hip, of staples, stitches, you name it. I. And I said to him before the surgery, because I was still modeling, I was like, you know those ads in the newspaper, you know those billboards of women in bathing suits and lingerie? That's me. Don't cut me wide open. And he didn't. Of course. He had to. Right.

But that.

But for me to put pressure on a surgeon to be careful with the scars because of my modeling career is a little insane. Right.

No, I get it. I totally, 100% get it. @ the same time, when he realized the injury, that should have been the last thing. And I. I think about. Do you remember when Nikki Taylor was in that major, major, major car accident and, you know, she has a laparotomy scar? I don't. Did she model much after that?

I think she did. I think she. You know, of course, the industry has shifted. Right. And I, you know, and I'll get to that part of the story later, that I'm still in the industry, but I think because the industry has shifted, it allowed for people like her and myself to continue in the industry. Yeah. Had it, Nikki and myself when we were modeling, when our early 20s, that you never would have seen somebody heavier with scars tatted up. All of this has been in the last, like, five years. Yeah.

I still don't know how I feel about it. Well, but in any event, that's not what this is about. Yeah, I. I was just trying to put myself in that place and think, like, what would I have done in that situation? And I'm nearly certain that you would have gotten a midline laparotomy scar. Because at that point, I was about damage control, making sure that nothing further happened. And surgeons just aren't used to general surgeons. Gynecologists do it all the time, but general surgeons are not accustomed to operating through that fan and steel incision, which is what you're talking about, that hip to hip.

Interesting. Yeah.

So I. I would have said, like, in an uncomplicated world, sure. I will try to respect your lack of, you know, incisions on your abdomen, but the second that field filled with blood. Because it was a laparoscopic.

Exactly.

Right, Right. The second that field filled with blood and you couldn't see anything. Right. You take that camera out and you open. Open.

Yeah, that was his mistake. Yeah, yeah. In fact, my n. Next door neighbor who worked for that hospital, who's an anesthesiologist, who I asked to be in that surgery with me, was there. Thank God, because he said to the guy, open her up now. Yeah. Which ultimately he did. Yeah. Anyway, so that was the first taken that. Well, that's what my. That's what my neighbor said. That was the first kind of major brush with death and major surgery. And then fast forward. Okay. So that should have been a full stop for me in my life. Like, okay, maybe we shouldn't care more about the yoga classes than the people in your life or, you know, the body. Maybe, you know, it's. You're 35. Maybe let it go. Nothing. I was like, absolutely not getting back in shape. I have to look a certain way. I have to. This is my job. Fast forward five years. I have a torn ligament in my right wrist, and it's a. It's not a. It's not an injury that happened quickly. It wasn't a car accident. It wasn't an accident. It just was damaged over time. Lifting my son's baseball bags, laundry, driving, whatever. I have small wrists, and it was a chronic Android. It was a torn. Completely torn, by the way. And so the doctor. Here's where I think I went wrong, because I didn't go wrong on anything other than this. When people tell you that they have the best doctor in town, you need to see that doctor. That's where we go wrong. There's no best doctor. Everybody is human, and they come with their own style and personality. But I thought that this guy could do no wrong because he was the Dallas Mavericks surgeon, orthopedic surgeon. He came from places, people that really admired this guy. And I thought, oh, I am great. So he repaired the torn ligament and Six weeks after the surgery, they take the pretty pink cast off and my arm balloons and my arm literally looks like my thigh bone. It is so swollen I can't get out of bed. I stop eating and drinking anything because any movement with my arm is so the, the pain is grotesque. So a few days later he diagnosed me with rsd, which ultimately was not the problem. Then he did a blood test which he buried. It's, it was positive for a infection that came out later.

He buried, buried it.

He buried it. And that's actually what. Why, how we even like one that probably won the lawsuit because of that.

Wait, what? That's psychopathic. I mean that is really, really sociopathic stuff.

Well, and it's interesting because that first of all, I've been in chronic pain literally every moment of every day since this happened. And but when he took the blood test, it could, I would have sent me in the hospital for 24 hours and my arm would have been completely fine.

Yeah.

So for months and months and months.

But he had to have a post op infection on his. It like that. Is that it? Well, was it measured then? I don't know if it was measured then, but they were keeping track of orthopedic surgeons who had post operative infections. That was, that was one of the indicators that they, that hospitals were tracking.

Well and it was, it kind of at a, a specialty clinic in Dallas. Yeah, it's just the whole thing, it looking back, it's, it was like the perfect storm. Ultimately I finally went to see a second opinion eight or nine months into this deal and I had osteomyelitis, bone infection. Every bone in my wrist was broken. I had no cartilage left and all the bones in my wrist had dropped into a pile and it had partially fused. And so I went up to HSS hospital in New York, found a wonderful orthopedic surgeon that would take a botched job. Many doctors, as you know, won't.

Yeah.

And he said, okay, game over. This has to be fully fused. And I was 41 at the time. And he was like, we never ever fully fuse a 40 year old, 41 year old woman's wrist. We just don't do it. We'll do anything to prevent that because you have no movement. Yeah, game over. And so when I was up in New York, because I didn't live in New York at a hotel for my six week post arm fusion appointment with a cast from my fingertips to my shoulder, trying to figure out how am I going to live the rest of my life with no wrist on my right arm. And at no point at that time did I know I'd be in chronic pain as well. And I was in the shower, and I was had for months and months and months with these casts on. I had been pouring liquid soap over my shoulder and just letting it wash my body. Because if you've ever had a cast from your fingertips to your shoulder, it's very limiting. It's.

Yeah.

You can't even describe it. And so that particular hotel didn't have any liquid soap, so I took a bar of soap and I tried to wash my breasts, and I ultimately found a lump when I was washing it with a bar of soap. Five days later, I was diagnosed with an aggressive form of breast cancer and could not start chemotherapy. Right. You get breast cancer, and you. You're diagnosed and you're in shock and you're paralyzed. At least I was paralyzed emotionally. And then a doctor says to me, well, we can't start chemo. We can't start any treatment because your arm. Your newly reconstructed fused arm with bone grafts will dissolve. So for 30 days, I had to sit tight with all this fear and anxiety, waiting to start chemotherapy because of my arm. Right. And. Yeah. And then the whole story shifted. A whole story shifted. Yeah.

So at the risk of being totally reductionist, you. You know that you got breast cancer because of years of pain and anguish, and you com. Your immune system was completely depleted because it was trying to keep you alive. Correct. And not let you die of overwhelming infection. Right. From the untreated infection in your wrist. Right. Yes. So, yeah.

And by the way, that's comforting to me because I think, okay, well, I'll never get it again. That's like my. That's my stronghold.

100%.

I'll never go in there.

Your body's way of saying this is not working.

Exactly. Right.

Like, this is not the plan. And there's really no other way of saying it. Right.

I'm with you. I'm 100% with you.

When we get these things, these are our messages. Yeah.

It's a sign.

Our messages saying this is not it.

Correct.

Right. Take a different tack.

Yeah.

Did you end up having chemotherapy?

I had 28 rounds of chemo. I had. What did you have? I had 90. I was 90 pounds wet. I had Taxol, Adriamycin, and Herceptin. So I had the Red devil to start. And by the way, as you know, I'm completely depleted at this point. Yeah. I've lost weight. My hair is thinning. Not from cancer. From the infection in my arm. And so I'm going into chemotherapy already, a reduced version of myself, health wise.

Yeah, you were not at your best. You were at your worst.

Which threw me into this whole tailspin with chemotherapy because there are three nights, once, one in March of 2013, one in April, where I'm not sure. I definitely didn't know if I was going to wake up the next day and either did my doctors. So you add a bunch of chemotherapy to a depleted system and you. That's a very risky.

Yeah, so for sure. So just out of morbid curiosity, what happened to the doctor that essentially did this to you? I mean, there was no reason that this had to happen. Had the ant, had the infection been properly identified when it first happened, you would have gone on a course of oral antibiotics and that would have been the end of it. Although, wait, you had hardware in there. I remember you saying that, like, not at that point. Something was spit out, though.

Well, yes. So, okay. Yeah. So going back to the original arm story, it kept opening, the surgical site kept opening. And one day I'm in the bath, I'm just trying to. The pain was so much. And all of a sudden the opening, it's like spurted out this little silver thing. It looked like a staple or a stitch or something. Like a clip. Like a clip? Yeah, like a clip. And we put it into a little bottle, a prescription bottle, and somehow it got thrown away. So we didn't have that. But two weeks later, something else came out of my wrist like a little clip. And so after these things started happening, that's when I was like, okay, you have to see another doctor because this doctor's not paying attention to you. He sent you far away from his office to do pt. He doesn't want you anywhere around him. And that was very obvious. And so ultimately, yeah, I did finally see another doctor. Thank God.

Thank God.

I might not have an arm.

Yeah, I mean, I think you hung on to him way longer than I would have.

Oh, no, for sure. And that was a self esteem issue. And it was also like I was holding on to this best doctor mentality, which is why I'd like to talk about it. There is no best doctor. If somebody says you have the best doctor, listen to them. Yeah, you listen to yourself before that. Yeah.

Well, I mean, we talk about this all the time and. Thank God. Thank God, thank God. I. I've been a doctor for a very long time. I have never had one legal issue. And it's because you have to communicate with people yes. You just have to communicate with people and mistakes will happen for sure.

Yeah.

I am so fortunate that all my time in the operating room, I never had a major complication. Never. Not once. Thank God. Thank God.

Yes.

But have I made mistakes? For sure? 100%.

Yeah.

We're human percent. And they haunt me. But you own up to them and you fix them, right? And you fix them quickly.

Take responsibility.

Yeah. Like, I, I, I'm haunted by this woman who I could feel, feel her lymph nodes before surgery, and I somehow missed it in the operating room. And that was like on a Tuesday. And on Friday, when I got the pathology report and I realized that I missed it, I was like, we have to go back to the operating room tomorrow. And I'm so sorry. I mean, I was horrified and embarrassed. Embarrassed. Like, here I am, this big deal surgeon, and people are coming from all, all over to use me. I missed it. So no one is perfect. No one forever. But what you need to be is humble.

Right.

Ego gets in the way.

Yeah. And by the way, and I tell people this all the time, what you guys learn in medical school is first do no harm, first and foremost.

Yeah.

And he did harm. He, he harmed me for the rest of my life, and he harmed my family, and he harmed my friends because the amount of time, attention, and resources that we needed for me to be. Well, I mean, I'm handicapped in my right arm, so. Yeah.

And he robbed you of years of your life and my children and time and all of that. Yeah. But you're in a different place and you have a different perspective, and this is all getting told on the big screen. So first of all, I, I want to hear just how, how was it to write the book? Was it, was it emotionally cleansing? Was it, did it bring it all back and make it worse? Like, I want to hear about that experience.

So I had a mountain of women show up for me during these seasons of my life, including the colon, including the arm, and including the cancer. And I thought, isn't it interesting how women show up for you? But maybe I wasn't really showing up for myself. Right. I, I allowed this man to bully me. I took his word over mine. You know, your intuition is, is what you should cling to, not somebody else's opinion of something that, you know, inherently is off. And so when all these women showed up for me over and over for 15 months of chemo and 20 plus surgeries, nine on my arm and breast surgeries and all these things, I, I said to them one day, Said, why? Why do you guys. Why are you giving up so much for me? And they said, well, someday you're going to learn that showing up for people is the greatest privilege in this world, and you're going to be able to live a strong, healthy life when you get through all this stuff, and you're going to do that for other people. And so the book to me was. Was an opportunity to serve, and I could show how I did it wrong. It wasn't like, oh, I had all these beautiful friends show up for me, and everybody in my house showed up for me, and I had this great life that was actually the opposite of what was happening. I had a very limited help coming from home, and which is why all these women showed up for me. And I also wanted to show the vulnerability of I did this wrong and then show how I shifted and why self esteem matters so much, and why what you focus on dictates your life, et cetera, et cetera. And so I felt like if I could write a book that touched people, maybe I could prevent somebody from doing, have the things happen, what I happen happen to me. And so it wasn't cathartic, and it wasn't like this major emotional roller coaster. It was neither. It was just an opportunity for me to give back. And I knew because. And. And you can probably attest to this, maybe different, because I'm not a doctor, but when you are diagnosed with something or you have an illness, everybody is an inundated with a lot of medical information, and a lot of it we don't understand, obviously. And so what we seek out as a patient are stories about this disease I'm about to go through, whether it's in media, whether it's in books, whether it's in tv, whether it's in film. And what I was seeking out when I was diagnosed with breast cancer were films, terms of Endearment, just illness films, you know, stepmother. And what I found to be true were most of the films, the patient dies. And I thought, well, gosh, I'm gonna die. There's very little hope in what I'm watching. And so I thought, well, that is one narrative, but it's not every narrative. There's more people surviving this than dying. And why isn't this being shown? And so I thought, if there was ever an opportunity for me to get my book made into a film, wouldn't that make a splash in the world? Wouldn't that change the direction of no hope in these films to a direction of hope? Because at the end of the movie, the protagonist, she walks off the screen and she's healthy and she survived and she's thriving. And so that's what all these things that I'm trying to do with the book, with the film, with speaking, et cetera, is an opportunity to serve and to show people this is the right way to do it. Giving back, showing up, showing a hopeful narrative versus the wrong way, which is what I think too many movies are.

Yeah. Yeah. Well, I will just give a shameless plug for my book, the Smart Woman's Guide to Breast Cancer. Because when you are in that vulnerable state, I mean, this is exactly why I wrote my book. Because when you are in that vulnerable state and you are unknowing, you are not a doctor, not a surgeon, and you're not married to one, and your cousin's not one, or your neighbor's not one. I mean, not everyone has a doctor on speed dial who they know and trust and can help them. Right. And I wrote this to be your doctor on speed dial, but from a completely different perspective. Because while I know what the pathology report means and what all the standard treatments are, and I acknowledge that they have a time and a place, I am also giving people all of the tools that they need to put into place to take them to recovery, to take them to back to health. And for some women, it's the first time that they've ever been healthy in their lives.

That's beautiful.

So that is really why I wrote the book. Because almost no one has the opportunity to make an informed decision because they don't have the information. They don't have the information that they need. Maybe they're getting the story of, oh, I'll just cut out the tumor and you'll be fine, and it's no big deal. Right, Right. You've heard that narrative before, right? Or I've done thousands of these, which admittedly I did say, and it was true. And you know, for. For everyone who was on my table, and it was no big deal. They did well and they sailed through. But there are many, many women who undergo surgery for breast cancer, who undergo treatments for breast cancer that have no idea what they're getting into. They have no idea what to expect in the short term and in the long term because a lot of these treatments have long term consequences that people have no idea about. And they're so scared, they just, Doc, tell me what to do.

That's what I'm dealing with too. Yeah, I have a lot of long term effects from chemotherapy. I have heart issues from The Herceptin. I have a liver spot from the Adriamycin. I have. I lost three teeth when I was going through chemo. I'm the poster child for what can happen. And if I didn't use my voice, maybe people would feel alone and that's not acceptable to me.

I agree.

And same with you.

And you know, you never want to be the cautionary tale, but it, it is important to get the stories out there and it's also important to get the information out there so that people know that there are alternatives. And I'm not talking about alternative medicine.

Correct.

I'm talking about alternative ways to do it.

Yes.

That it's more effective, that there are less side effects, that you don't have to sacrifice your health for the purpose of treating the disease.

I love it.

And that's why it was so important for me to use my voice and tell my story and my experience so that I could help millions of women do it differently and hopefully, God willing, God willing, prevent.

Yeah, well, you have a unique voice for sure.

I'm going to take that as a compliment.

It's true. You do.

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Back to our show.

Hello, my Beautiful listeners. I'm taking a quick break here to share something truly transformative with you today. If you're ready to take control of your breast health journey, then you need to get your hands on a copy of my book, the Smart Woman's Guide to Breast Cancer. I wrote this book to make a massive impact in the world of breast cancer, empowering women everywhere to make informed choices and educated decisions. You have so much more power and control over your health than you might think. And this book, this is a roadmap to harnessing that power. Inside, you'll uncover the truth about conventional treatments. They're often overestimated benefits and underestimated, under explained and under disclosed long term side effects. But more importantly, you'll discover the true drivers of health and how the choices you make at home every day can lead you to the best health, the breast health of your life, even after a breast cancer diagnosis. Whether you're looking to prevent a diagnosis, avoid recurrence, or simply live your healthiest life, this book is for you. Join me on this journey to empowerment and health. Grab your copy of the Smart Woman's Guide to Breast Cancer today, and let's revolutionize the way that we approach breast health together.

So I want to get to the movie, but before that, your story really emphasizes the importance of a strong support system, particularly female friendships, because that's what you needed to rely on. And I think that this is a big part for people. First of all, women, and you had some of this, women feel badly leaning on their community. They don't want to burn at anyone. They don't want to be anyone's problem. They're supposed to be the doers, not the receivers. Right. I mean, this is a real and true issue. And I have so many people who say to me, listen, I'm not telling anyone, I'm not telling my friends, I'm not telling my family. I'm just gonna, you know, they're gonna white knuckle their way through this alone and just get through it. Right, Just get through it. And this is, this is very pervasive.

Yeah.

So what do you think is missing in the conversations about friendships and healing, especially when women face life altering challenges like this? Yes.

Well, I think this, I think society teaches that we can do it alone. And I think they're wrong. I think society also, you know, is very much into competition. I'm very much into collaboration. I think society is a judgmental community. I think we need to teach women that judgment is divisive. And so I think it starts, you Know, in middle school, and it, it perpetuates. And I think social media has a part in this, which is why I think stories of honesty and vulnerability are so crucial in the world that we live in. And I think this story especially because I rely on so many other people where you just have to get rid of your pride and your ego. And I, in the beginning of my diagnosis, first of all, I would not have survived if I had said, you know what? I can do it alone. I couldn't have. I literally, I was down to nothing. And if they didn't help rebuild me, I would never be here and sharing the story. Yeah. And so, and, and plus, because I.

Had that by design and intention and. Oh, for sure, have a choice.

No, for sure, because I had to get down to nothing to get rid of my pride. I, I was so caught up in. I have to look a certain way in, in society. I was so caught up in carrying a certain bag, which I could no longer carry because I had a fused arm. I was so obsessed with what I weighed, what I look like, who liked me, who my friends were. Exactly what you said in the beginning, what street I lived on, none of that mattered anymore. And so, and by the way, my friends said to me, you're not a burden, you're a privilege. And if you change your mentality to, to actually think that, like the modeling industry as an example, is very transactional. When I was a child, when I was in my eight, you know, twenties, working, the photographers would say to me, if you do this free job for me, I'll introduce you to this client. That's transaction. My friends weren't there because they could get something from me. They weren't there because they could get some thing later when I was healthy. They did it out of sheer selflessness. And when you are exposed to that, you realize that the world really does work better on selflessness, not on transaction. And so I live my life now serving without any transaction. I don't want anything for what I'm doing. I'm not asking for anything in return. I just want to give freely. And so when you get to that place and you believe people when they tell you that and they keep showing up and they're teaching you that, then you realize how important collaboration is and you realize how important community is. And so for me, I had, I lived it and I, and I started to really understand it, and then I focused on that and it became my life. But so many people get caught up in, you know, looking at, as an example, social Media looking at the highlight reels and thinking that actually exists. It doesn't. And if you focus on those stories, then you're going to think, you know, you're less than. None of us are less than. Yeah, I agree with you.

But again, it is hard because it feels like what you're seeing is real.

It's not hard for me. And maybe that's because I had, I was so pruned, all of my limbs got pruned. Right. I, I lost money, I lost my ex, I now have an ex husband. I lost the relationship that I thought I was, have, would have forever. I lost my beauty, I lost. Everything was stripped away. But all of those things are built on sand. Everything outside of us can be taken away. Friendships, relationships, money, beauty, whatever we age. But if you, it depends on what you rebuild it on. If you rebuild it on serving, if you rebuild it on materialism, you're going in the wrong direction. If you build it on serving, you're going in the right direction. If you build it on hope, you're building the right foundation. If you build it on fear, you're building a very big roller coaster. And it's a choice how we respond to trauma. And pain is a choice.

Yes, I, I, I completely agree with you. And we can't always respond in real time because the visceral response exactly. Is to experience the pain or bury the pain. And that's the same thing with trauma. The visceral response is either to feel the pain or bury the pain. And so many people bury the pain.

But exactly what you just said is so important for people to hear, because if they hear me saying, oh, just focus on hope, then they're like, yeah, but in, in the moment, it doesn't feel like I can focus on hope. But what you're saying is it doesn't happen in that moment. And that's the truth. And so if you can say to yourself, okay, right now, this season of my life may not be hopeful, but I'm reaching for that. And I'm going to start focusing on the hope. Even if I don't feel it, that's what we should do.

And you know, my, my friend Givora reminds me often because the life of an entrepreneur is it the, My path is not a linear one, right? It's like, hi, low, low, low, low, low. One step up, two steps back. Two steps up, four steps back, back. And she just constantly reminds me because I, you know, I'm, I'm changing an industry, I'm taking on mammogram. Industry, which has been firmly footed for 50 years.

Right.

So she constantly reminds me that everything is for the good in that when you have these challenges, when these roadblocks are being put in front of you, it's only because that's what you need to get to the next step. It's what you need to get to the next level. It's what you need to move things forward.

Yeah. Correction.

Correct.

Illness is not a death sentence. Illness is not. It's a season. It doesn't have to be a lifetime. And when we think about seasons of our life and put it into perspective, it's like. It's like thinking about what we're going to do a year from now versus today. We're meant to think about today. We're meant to live today, not a year from now. It's the same thing with illness.

Yeah.

We have to build a house in an illness, in an uncomfortable space, but eventually we're going to get as much of a white picket as we want as we can attain scarred and all with, you know, it doesn't have to be perfectly white, but we can reach for those things. And that's called hope. Yeah.

Imperfection isn't real.

Yeah. It doesn't exist.

It doesn't exist. So I want to get to the movie a little bit. I was having this fascinating conversation with a very, very, very dear friend of mine whose name I will not mention because she does a lot of tv. And she basically said to me something that I. That I knew was true, but didn't want to believe that it was true. And she said, if you want to get to that level, you either have to pay or play. And by play, she means.

I know what you mean.

She means being playful in a place that you normally wouldn't do, but for. With your partner or spouse or promiscuous.

Yeah.

Yes. And so you have been educated in the. In the movie industry.

This is.

This is a really big deal for you. I want to hear about the experience.

Yes. So my book was approached to be a film by three different entities in 2017 and 2018. Ultimately, I signed a contract with an entertainment lawyer to do it with Hamza Films. And. But the two before that were interesting conversations. One was an entertainment lawyer who did projects with all the big platforms. Netflix, Amazon Films, et cetera. And he was almost going to be kind of a sales agent. And I had three, four months of conversations with him, but it just didn't pan out the way I thought it should. And then a second group out of Miami approached me and said, okay, we're gonna put a bunch of marketing money into you, and we're gonna then write the screenplay for your book, and then we're gonna announce it to the world when you're kind of a household name. And I was like, well, that's kind of seductive. That's kind of cool, right? You're gonna pay for all this. Great. So they started to. We started to make videos and PR stuff. And then they. Then they gave me the script. And the script to the. To my book was. Had a sci fi element. And I said to them, wait a minute, my book has nothing to do with aliens and sci fi. And they said, yeah, but that's kind of what the market is. And I said, I'm out. I'm not gonna sacrifice. Even if this is the only book, book, movie, film deal I ever get, I'm not doing this. And they were like, I can't believe you would pass this up. And I was like, okay, we have to. We have to kindly separate. And then ultimately, Ziad Hamza, who's Hamza? Mystique Films, approached me, and he said, I'd like to collaborate with you. I'd like to buy the rights to your book to have a film. And I just trusted him. And so we both hired entertainment lawyers, and we came to an agreement, and we signed the contract in 2018, and we raised money, and we were supposed to start filming in 2020. May of 2020. Well, of course, Covid happens in March of 2020, and the people that put up the money lost their money. So now we are back to zero. And most projects. I mean, most projects that were started in 2020 never resurrected. And people said to me all the time, people in the industry, out of the industry. Your project is dead. And I was like, I don't think so. Yeah, because I have faith and I have hope, and I don't think so. And I'm. I'm really not somebody. I'm alive because I'm not really somebody that says, okay, I'm just going to lay down and not work on this. So ultimately, it was resurrected. And it took a lot of energy and perseverance, determination. And then the writer strike happened, and then the actors strike happened, and both of those set us back and cost us money and cost us time. And we were in a hurry to get this movie out because, as you know, there are so many women that are diagnosed with breast cancer. There's ultimately going to be a film about breast cancer. And we want it to be ours because we can control the narrative.

Yeah.

And so by the grace of God, it was filmed last January in Boston. And we have an incredible cast of people and we have incredible crew of people. And it is, it's a project that is, it was done actually more beautifully and better represented than it would have been in 2020. So I'm actually very grateful for the pause because the screenwriter wrote a better script. It was perfected, it was changed over time to be a better script.

That's amazing. And I'm so glad to hear it.

What a roller coaster.

Yeah. And I know that you are a deeply religious and spiritual woman, and I'm just curious how much you think God played a role in all of this, in your recovery, in the timing of this. I mean, there were a lot of barriers in your way and yet you were still so sure that this was gonna happen.

I had this unnatural peace and that only comes from God. And I think, you know, I think God knew that I would write the story. I think God knew that I would not give up on the project. And I again, I think this, this movie can help millions and millions and millions of women. And so I felt like it was my responsibility to do it. Well, I wouldn't have lasted this long if I didn't have faith in something bigger than this world. Because the world was throwing all these arrows at me saying, it's not worth it, it's, it's not going to get done. You're up against Hollywood. You're not in the space. If I had listened to that, I would never have gotten it done. But I wasn't listening to them. My measure is not from this world, it's from eternal, it's God. And so at the end of the day, every day, I say to God, did I do enough today? Did I help enough people? And if not, show me who to help tomorrow. And so when that is your measure and you're not worried about what is the arrows that are thrown up against you, then I think you have a different type of mentality and passion to work through things instead of giving up. I'm not one to give up, but especially when it can help millions of people.

I mean, that is so incredibly touching and is so, it's so resonates with me and aligns with my mission because, you know, I'm not, I'm not taking on the mammogram industry because I have nothing better to do or. I like a good fight.

Exactly right.

Like it's not self serving, it's not self serving. And I, I, I get plenty of rebuke from all over the place, from my colleagues, from women, from. From industry. And I do it because my mission, and I know that I am just God's messenger, same mission, is to change the way that we do things and make this world safer and make this world healthier. And I. I ultimately want to forever change the way that we do this so that our focus is not on illness, but instead on health.

Yes.

And I want to make that change so that millions and millions of women can either prevent a diagnosis or if they get a diagnosis, they can be treated with dignity and learn about true health. Yeah, right.

That's beautiful.

That is my mission. And you can't listen to the voice haters. You have to remember who you serve. And we serve God well.

And it's funny because when this movie comes out, there will be people that will say, oh, whatever, they'll criticize it, right?

What?

Maybe from ego, maybe from jealousy, maybe from competition. I don't know. It doesn't matter. You know, I've kind of thrown out the highest highs and the lowest lows, and I kind of live in between. I don't care what people think of me. If I did, I wouldn't have written the book. I wouldn't have be. I wouldn't be so out there. Right. And same with you. You can't take on an industry that is. Is so tethered in money and in things that are harmful to women.

Yeah.

You can't take on that and be unscathed. It ain't gonna happen.

I know it.

Good for you.

So when you. When you look in the mirror, and I'm saying that figuratively, not literally, what are the major changes from who you were before all of this happened to who you are now?

What's funny, because when I look in the mirror, I'm literally scars. I mean, I've hundreds of scars on my chest because of the amount of surgeries I've had. I have, you know, major scars on my arm. I have major scars on my stomach. I don't feel like there's ever been a time in my life where I felt more beautiful. Because my beauty comes from within. My beauty is not tethered to whether I have a chest or not, or whether I have a wrist or not, or whether I have all of my colon. My beauty is my perception of myself and who I serve, and that's all from within. So I've taken every stronghold that has that used to be in my life that was outside of me and only clung to what is inside. Of me. And so I've never felt more beautiful as a human being. I've also never felt more confident in this world because again, my strength and my confidence doesn't come from society. And I'm. I'm still modeling. I mean, I'm a model. I model in Miami swim week. I've. I'm one of Victoria's Secret's first ever breathless models. I'm out there in, in a very. In society. I'm out there, but I'm out there shouting from the rooftops, you better work on your self esteem. Because whatever you think of yourself, whatever you believe of yourself, that dictates your life, that dictates your path. Mine dictated my path to great illness and trusting people that I shouldn't have trusted. And I'm the perfect example of what it looks like to depend on society. Society's fickle. They're not going to show up for you. You got to show up for yourself. And you have to be tethered into something that is a stronghold, that is not sand.

We talk about this all the time in my world, that you are a reflection of the five people closest to you. What you describe in your book, which I know is a version of the truth, is that you lived amongst people who were very externally focused and yet they were also deeply spiritual and loving and caring. I'm curious, are those people still your people? Or did you have to find new people for this new version of Christine?

You know, I think I got so lucky because I picked people way ahead of time that were more emotionally mature or more. Were more godly women than I was. And had I not set that up, I. It would have been a different ending. I think I caught up to them. So I didn't need to get rid of them. I needed to stick with them. And I'm lucky they didn't get rid of me.

I don't, I don't even think that that was a possibility.

No, they, they wouldn't have. That's the thing. Like, you gotta find people that will show up. And I'd like to say that from age 10 to 40, I showed up for people, but I, I couldn't say that authentically. I would say that I was more transactional. And then obviously when you feel great pain and trauma in your life, you have to choose a path. I could have gone back to that, but that wasn't the right. That wasn't right. And I, I definitely knew what was right after that season of my life. And I wanted to do what was right.

Yeah, you Know, it's funny because I, I'm early on in my entrepreneurship, but that I'm, I'm still way ahead of most people who are just starting out. And the people who I'm surrounding myself with are, are different and they're at a different level. And you can see that there are some people who are just entirely 100% transactional.

Oh, yeah. It's so obvious.

The only role that you will ever have in their life is if you can do something for them and, you know, in exchange, they will do something for you. And then I've had the amazing, unbelievable privilege to meet and have people in my life who are purely looking for friendship. And I've had this amazing, amazing experience in the last year to have three or four new people come into my life who are so deeply meaningful and not transactional at all. And they have become the friendships that I have, that I have cherished. And I think, you know, you've dealt with fame for a really long time, right? So this has probably always been on your radar, but is it even more so now? Are you, are you careful about, about who you let in? And are you, do you have radar for those people who are purely looking for a transactional relationship?

Well, it's interesting because when, as you know, when you write a book or you're on a mission, like with the mammograms, you know who, if you call and say, I need you to help me with this. I need to get the word out. I need to get the word out about the film or my book or can you show up for a book signing, whatever, you know who's going to be there and you know who will do that. And so I, I as well, part of the reason why I can know who's transactional is because I used to be and I used to have that mindset. So now I can see it so easily because I would not. I'm. That's not who I am at all. But I know the mindset, and I think that because of being known and more known, it, it comes with responsibility. Right. You can't just take everybody and, and say, okay, this is the. We're everybody's my friend. Because it's doesn't work that way. You have to spend time with each person. But there are people that you notice that want to hang around more or want to, hey, you know, get your phone number from social media or from. And it's always a bit of a red flag.

Yeah, agreed.

So.

For people who read your book and there are a Lot of people who read your book.

What.

What can they expect from the movie?

Is it.

Are they gonna have surprises? Are there gonna be.

Is it.

Is it a different version?

Well, always. Book to film changes. Always. Because first of all, in a book, you can have a great deal of characters that can't translate into a film. And so if I have 20 characters of friends in my book, which I probably do, there's three main friends in the. In the film. I'm not going to give away the ending, because the ending is. The last two minutes of the film are going to change people's lives for the better.

Oh, I just got chills.

For the better. It's so important to show what we're showing, and I think that's going to shock a lot of people. And I also think that it's going to heal a lot of people. And that's not in the book because a lot of the stuff that happened to me is after the book. And so that portion is in the film, which isn't in the book. Yeah.

So you've become a mentor and an advocate for breast cancer awareness and female empowerment. So what lessons from your personal experience do you most frequently share with women who are struggling to see a way forward?

I talk a lot about your own thoughts and taking your own thoughts captive. When I thought my life was over, I was making decisions because I thought that when I thought there was hope in my life and I could survive this, I was making decisions that demonstrated that too. I think that self talk can be so damaging, and I think as women, we do that a lot. I'm not good enough. I'm not pretty enough. Look at these scars. Listen, the list goes on. I can say that, but I don't say that. I'm beautiful, I'm loved, I'm worthy, I'm scarred, and I am proud of what I've been through. Those are two different narratives. Yeah. And so I think if people take their thoughts captive, if it's negative, and say to themselves, how can I turn this around? That starts self healing, and that's a long road. And I'm not saying it's. It's going to happen overnight. It's not. But I think if you can start that road and continue that road, you will become unstoppable.

Yeah.

I also think, like you said, who you hang around will also dictate your path. So if you have people that are saying to you negative things or you're again, maybe cutting you down or not lifting you up, then I think you need to eliminate those people gracefully in your life. I also think that it's critical to serve. I felt great happiness in my life. I never felt joy until I served other people. I don't. And that can come look in different ways, whether you want to write a check to a charity or you want to go serve at a food, you know, in a, in a food bank and a. And things like that. I, I speak in prisons. I speak all over the world. I've spe spoken from a parliament in Berlin recently on patient advocacy issues. Whatever you do, if it's for one person, it's serving, you will feel joy. And when you serve other people, there's purpose in that and everybody has to have purpose.

You know, it's amazing. I think it's a Harvard study, but I'm not 100% sure I need to look it up. But there is a study that shows that people with cancer who volunteer have longer survival.

I believe that. Yeah.

And it has to do with that, with the act of service. Yes. And also when you are serving others, you are fulfilling great purpose.

You're serving yourself too?

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Absolutely.

And you're also getting out of your own junk. Like if you just, if you're serving yourself, you're like, oh, I'm in pain, my arm hurts. I, I'm. I don't look like I used to look. And all these other things. Because you're self serving. Right. But if you're serving other people, you're like, actually, I really want to help this person. Getting out of your own mentality in your own stuck.

So I'm curious because the place that you are now is a very different place than you were. So what was the turning point for you?

Oh, I was down to nothing. When I was diagnosed with cancer, I was down to nothing. And I said to myself, if I'm going to fight for my life, I'm going to do this differently. And I have no idea how I'm going to do it, but I'm not going to go through what I went through, which was very confusing. I was very lonely in my life and I didn't want to go back to that. And so I just really did a lot of introspective work. Obviously I had people show up for me, but there's a lot of times when you're going through chemotherapy or illness where you're alone and you feel alone because people around you don't understand. And it was during those times where I did a lot of introspection and figured out what was I focused on what were the tenants that were my strongholds? What were my false idols? I got to get rid of those. What can I replace those with? Those are a lot of. That's a lot of self reflection. And I think it takes a huge amount of courage to do. And oftentimes we don't have the courage to do it because we want to quit. But if you don't have that courage, lean on other people and you can borrow their courage. I think that was one of the smartest things I ever did, was borrow courage from other people.

Yeah, I love that term. And I. And I think about that often. I want to talk to you about something that was particularly vulnerable for you, but it is a very common thing, because as people, as women go through breast cancer treatment, and your breast cancer treatment was on the heels of years of illness and debilitation. Right. It takes a tremendous toll on your relationship.

Yes.

And lots of people, by the time they arrive at their breast cancer diagnosis, part of the reason why they arrived at their breast cancer diagnosis was because they were in a difficult and failing relationship. Can you talk about your marriage and what happened and how. How this. How it affected you throughout this process?

Well, I think if you read my book, it's fairly obvious. But I think that for me, I was allowing scraps in my life, and scraps were enough for me until it weren't enough for me. And now when I choose a partner, I'm. I'm not relying on scraps. I'm relying on somebody that wants to be all in. And so my marriage did dissolve over a long period of time. And in all fairness, I had years and years of illness. And we don't always, although we say that at the altar, you know, in sickness and in health, it's a little different when it's reality and we are friends. We are. I care about him. I would drop everything if he needed me. And so we have a good relationship, thankfully, but we do that for our children. I just think that I chose somebody that modeled my family, and I chose somebody that was never going to be the guy that showed up for me. And instead of being a victim, like, oh, he didn't show up for me. He should have showed up for me. I take responsibility. I chose this person. I knew it. I knew it.

Yeah.

And he. And he played out who he was. We all do. We all play out who we are. And inherently, I don't think you can change people. You can change yourself, but you can't change other people. And me holding out for years for this person to change because I needed him to change, was never going to happen. So I ultimately cut ties and we moved on. And he's happy, and I'm happy, and I'm very grateful for that. Yeah.

But this is not an uncommon scenario. And so for the people who are in it.

Right.

And it happens so often where I see the whole breast cancer experience, and there is an underappreciation for the. How much the relationship before the diagnosis contributed to the diagnosis.

Absolutely.

Oftentimes it's a result of that, that relationship that's not working. But so many people lose their relationship along with this diagnosis. And I, I'm. It's amazing to me that we have this shining example of triumph, of personal triumph after resilience diagnosis, that, that there is a better place and you can move on and you can be a whole, complete person.

Yes.

And you don't need. I, I, I love that you didn't settle for scraps because it's so. It was palpable throughout the book that you just, here's a little bit of me, Here's a little bit of me. Deal with that. That's all you're getting, you know, and that's happening a lot.

Yeah.

And marriage is really, really, really hard, even in the best scenarios. You know, I love my husband. I have the best husband imaginable. He's certainly the best husband for me. And as I'm frequently told, you either marry your work or give birth to it. I definitely married my work at the same time. You know, it's, it is not easy. I mean, we work on our relationship all the time, and you have to work on your relationship all the time for you. And I'm not saying that all marriages should, should weather this storm.

Right.

You know, there are many times when maybe the right thing is to not weather the storm and to realize that you are entitled to so much more. And I think that that was your realization.

Yes, I was entitled.

So tell us about the movie, because it's coming out soon. Right.

The movie's called hello, Beautiful. It's coming out this spring, 20, 25, seven years into this thing.

Yes. And again, I mean, is that an unusual timeline? No, Covid definitely, like, put a whole wrench into that whole timeline. For sure. For sure.

But no, no, it's, it's. Movies take years and sometimes a decade. So, no, it's pretty much on par to what is normal in the industry, I'm learning. But it is, you know, it's going to take a community of people to promote this movie and I'm going to lean on the breast cancer community because, again, you got to get rid of your pride. But those are the ones that I want to see it. Those are the ones that it's going to help. And so we have to ask for help, because, as you can imagine, there's so many platforms, there's so many different avenues, and so many movies.

Yeah.

You want to get it to the people that need to see it. And so I'll be sending, well, all.

The stuff to you. That's why I'm here. And you can lean on me and my community.

Exactly.

We are going to be here for you, of course. And, you know, we're going to shout it from the rooftops. Yeah. It's Important is a story of triumph.

It's important.

And it doesn't mean that it was easy or it wasn't filled with pain, because I don't think that I remember hearing a story, and I certainly have never experienced this firsthand as a practitioner. Right. So it doesn't mean that it was easy, but it is triumphant.

But we show the pain of a diagnosis. We show the pain in the family. We show the pain of chemotherapy because people don't want to be represented on film in a way that's like a down pillow. They want to see themselves represented accurately. And that's what we're showing. Yeah. Yeah.

Well, I say all the time, you know, and I'm guilty of it. Right. I surround myself with pink and everything's pink, and even my car is pink. But the truth is that breast cancer is not pink.

Right.

It's not pink. It's not pretty. It's not soft, it's not lovely. It's anything but. Not a bow. It's not. It's not a bow or a ribbon. Right. It's not a present.

Right.

But it is an opportunity. Correct. And it is an opportunity to make your life afterwards better than it was before. Amen, women. If you can choose to see that, if you can choose to embrace that perspective, it is an opportunity.

Yes.

To be better.

Beautiful.

So where can people find you?

So I'm on all socials on Instagram, which I'm more visible, I think, on Instagram. It's Christine Handy one. And the one is there because somebody was already Christine Handy before I got on there. But my book is on all. You know, wherever you can find books, it's there. It's Amazon is an easy way to get it. And the book is called Walk Beside Me. The movie is called hello, Beautiful. They're different titles. That happens a lot, from books to film. And hello beautiful. When you see the movie, you're going to understand why it's titled that. And I'm not going to give it away.

Okay, don't give it away because we are all so excited for this. And make sure that you get a copy of the book. It's walk beside me and make sure that you follow Christine Handy1 on social and we will all be there to support you. And the truth is that breast cancer affects nearly everyone.

Absolutely.

Because if it's not you and not your mother or your sister, it's going to be your neighbor or your teacher or your or your friend at church or synagogue or yes, you know, or your cousin. I mean, it's literally touches everyone and it's going to affect everyone. So I think that this is so important. I love your perspective. I love how you came out on the other side. It is empowering and a message that we all need to hear.

Thank you.

Thank you so much. Thank you for your time today and I am rooting for you all the way.

Same thank you and thank you to.

All who joined us today who listened. If you like this, share it with a friend, a colleague. Make sure that you're following me and that you like it and give us your comments. And if you have questions and you want to know more, make sure you send them to me because I actually want to give people follow up. I know a lot of people have been asking for follow up on YouTube and I am happy to give it to you. So send me your questions and know that I will be back next week, same time, same place. It's Dr. Jen. Bye for now.

Thank you for joining me on this episode of the Keeping abreast podcast with Dr. Chen. I hope you found the discussion informative and empowering.

Remember rest. Health is health.

So by staying informed and taking proactive steps, you have the power to optimize your well being. My team and I encourage you to apply the knowledge gained from today's episode to make positive changes in your life and share what you've learned with others. If you enjoyed this episode, please subscribe to our podcast and leave us a review. Your feedback and support mean the world to us and help us to reach more people who can benefit from these conversations. Stay connected with me on social media where I share additional resources, advice, updates and announcements related to breast health. You can find me on Facebook, Instagram and YouTube. Dr. Jennsimmons. And remember, my Jen has two N's. So until next time, remember to stay proactive informed and confident in your breath. Breast Health Journey the key to your health is you.