84: What Women NEED to Know About Recovery & Hormones with Zora Benamou

Foreign.

Hello and welcome.

I'm Dr. Jen Simmons, a breast cancer surgeon turned integrative oncologist on a groundbreaking mission to transform the conversation around breast health. If you're seeking to redefine the way that you think about breast health, you're in the right place. Breast health isn't just an aspect of well being. It is health, integral and indispensable. Here on the Keeping Abreast podcast, we delve deep into the innovative ways to diagnose, treat, screen for, and prevent breast cancer. But it's more than that. It's about having the crucial conversations that empower, enlighten, and drive us all to a healthier place. As someone who has navigated the front lines of breast cancer treatment and now champions an integrative approach, I bring a unique perspective to these discussions with blending rigorous science with holistic health principles. Health is a journey, not a destination, and I am truly honored to accompany you on this path. Each episode aims to provide you with actionable insights and cutting edge strategies to take charge of your breast health and your overall well being. So whether you're here to learn about the latest in medical advancements or seeking tips on lifestyle changes that foster real health, they the Keeping Abreast podcast is your go to resource. Let's embark on this journey together, because when we talk health, every conversation matters. And now stay tuned for this week's episode.

What do you think about when someone talks about having a hip replaced? You certainly don't think about being youthful. You don't think about being vibrant, being active. You think if you need a hip replacement, you're an old lady.

Right.

It's a mark of age and and decline and all of those things. Well, I brought someone on today who is a longevity expert. She is a biohacker and she is a recent recipient of two new hips. So we want to talk about this. We want to change the stigma and we want to make sure that you have great bone health. And if you need these things, like a hip replacement, we want to make sure that you get what you need to have the very best outcome. So I want to welcome Zora Benimu to the show. Zora, I'm so happy to have you.

Oh, thank you so much. I am so excited to be here. I'm such a fan of yours that it's like I just eating up your podcasts and all your information. Up to you.

So why don't you start us off with a little background about you for the people that don't know who you are, tell us who you are.

Okay, well, I'm originally from the us, from la. I'm a nomad. I've left. I've always been an expert.

Well, this was a good time to leave la.

Yeah, I know, but I've seen my whole childhood burning up.

It's really, really sad. It's really sad. It's really sad, actually. I'm really sorry. I just a joke about that, because it. It is. It is really sad. And I don't know if you follow Kayla Barnes, but she is. She dubs herself the most studied woman in the world because she literally is testing, testing, testing, and then putting all that information out there. And she has been sharing her toxin panel, which she had measured a bunch of times before the fire, the fires, plural. And then she measured, I think, 10 days or something after the sunset fire. And she went from having maybe three toxins that were in moderate range to having 20 toxins that were in high range. So the air in. In LA right now is not safe. And I know that time heals all wounds, and this too shall pass, but in the meantime, it's. It's horrible. It is horrible what has happened there.

I listened to this episode, literally. I, of course, I. I just didn't recognize her name, but I. If there's somebody who's probably biohacking herself and staying indoors and doing everything that needs to take, and she still has 20 toxins at high level, you can imagine what the general population.

That's exactly right. The person that has to go to work every day and take the bus and wait on the corner and. Yeah, absolutely, absolutely.

So, yeah, no, we got it. We got to protect ourselves as much as we can and do our best. And she's given a roadmap for that.

Yeah, but you're a biohacker too.

Yeah.

Right. So how. How did you come to that space? Because there aren't a lot of women in that space. Most of the biohackers that we think of, we think of the Dave Asprey's of the world. We. We think of these people that are men. Yeah, right. And we don't have the same physiology as men. No, we don't, actually.

And we. You covered this really well in this episode with Kayla because it's the. There are a lot of women coming now into this biohacking space, which is fabulous because we're all figuring out, oh, hey, it's not working with us, like, why isn't this happening? Yeah. And. And there are even fewer women who are over 50 like me. So. Yeah. So. And I think we are the ones who really, really want these. These hacks because we're really experiencing and seeing the aging process. We want to try to reverse this or slow it down as much as we possibly can. And we have different concerns than men. We have, you know, men are, especially if you're a younger man, your concerns, maybe erectile dysfunction or maybe you just want to build more muscle.

But unfortunately, that's happening now, right?

Yeah. Yeah. And so, yeah. And. And then with the older woman, we're not really looking at our. Our. Our reproductive health in that sense. Like, we're not interested in having babies anymore. So. So again, our different. Our. Our concerns are different than younger women's concerns. So. So it was really fun to. To jump into this space and. And speak for a lot of other women who are my age and say, look, yeah, what could we do to biohack our age? And. And that's what we're. I'm trying to. Trying to do and trying to. To give as much information as possible. And then, of course, when you're over 50, if you don't talk about menopause, then, I don't know, you're living under a rock. So we do talk a lot about menopause as well.

So did this become an area of interest for you because of your personal experience or what? What kind of drove you into this space?

Well, I guess being from la, I always say it's in your LA DNA to always want to be healthy and just look good in a bikini. But when my mother passed away of breast cancer at 57, I got really concerned, and I thought, okay, I just don't want to die early. What can I do to prevent this? And, of course, eating up as much information I possibly could.

How old were you at the time?

I was 23. Oh, God. Yeah, it's too early. Much too early. And so that's really what drove me into saying, okay, what can I do to. To really protect myself or at least improve my chances of not dieting early? And then I got into the biohacking space and I thought, oh, this is interesting. I love the N of one experiment. I love that we're all very different. And then, of course, now with the Human Genome Project and all the information and Internet, we have lots of. Lots of cool things that we can do. And now we know that it's. Well, 20% is genetic, more or less. Some people say 10. And then it's 80 or 90% of my diet and lifestyle we can control. So I felt like it was a Huge weight lifted off my shoulders. Okay. I can. I can probably do something about this or at least improve my chances, and then I'll do the best that I can. And if cancer comes and. Or any other disease, I know I did my best, and that's okay. So then I. Then I eventually got into gerontology because there was no masters of biohacking. So I thought, well, the closest I can get to is studying aging and longevity has become a. Derek.

Should be, though.

There should be.

There should be point. There should be, yeah.

Because when I was going through the. Through the program.

Absolutely right.

Many of my professors had no idea what biohacking is. And I'm like, you really should know. I mean, we're talking about older adults, and we are talking about everyone. We look at the whole lifespan from birth to death. We're studying aging and longevity. But, yeah, it would help to know some biohacks about this. So, yeah, they. I learned from them, but they also learned a couple things for me too. Yeah.

So you have recently undergone a personal experiment.

Right.

So you had recent surgery. You had both of your hips replaced. And I would love for you to share about your experience. First of all, start with, why did you have your hips replaced?

So probably about seven years ago, I was told by a doctor after I had some joint pain, and I was in my mid-40s, and I was probably perimenopausal going through this change. And I was told, well, you've got some wonky bones, and it's going to. Cause it's called hip impingement. Didn't really know what that meant. I said, okay, physio. So I hacked that. It's fine. Back to my old self. And then as the years progress, you get another niggle, another pain. It's like, oh, wow, something else. You go get another MRI doctor say, now you have osteoarthritis. And again, I'm not sure what that is. Oh, you'll. You'll need a hip replacement. This is when I was 40, 47, 48, more or less. It's like, you've got to be kidding me. This is something for when I'm 70, perhaps, right. I can. I don't need to be concerned about this. And so you're put in this box of 70 plus, and it doesn't feel good. And in the beginning, I was just laughing like, you just don't know me. There's no way. And. And eventually, actually, over the years, I found some really great hacks that probably bought me some time. And I was really appreciative of that because of this biohacking world. I tried things like platelet rich plasma injections, acid. You got, of course, the rehab and the diet, the lifestyle, all these things help for sure. And I've been able to bounce back until the last two years and my biohacks just were not working anymore. I tried another one and another one and another one. You spent a lot of money, you spent a lot of time. And again, if there's anyone who's disciplined, it's me. And so I would love to have proven to the world I can reverse osteoarthritis. And I certainly tried. It was an amazing drug called pentasin polysulfate that I still believe it's something to explore if anyone has osteoarthritis and if they're not understanding what osteoarthritis is, it's not osteoporosis. Osteoporosis is bone density. My bones are actually pretty good. I've got the bone strength of a gymnast, evidently. It's just that the joints are getting wear and tear and the bones just do not fit in the socket. Then it's kind of like these spurs, it's kind of like a callus. And then you just keep rubbing and rubbing and rubbing. It's just non stop inflammation. And if you just cannot create the space, which I did in the beginning, I was able to create some space and get some fluid in there. But as I was going through menopause, evidently then I started to lose some more of the fluid. I started to get more inflammation and it just wasn't working anymore. And so after my pity party of.

But, but that is a real thing. And when we talk about the symptoms of menopause, one of them is dry everything. And this is part of why people get joint pain, because they lose that joint space, they lose that joint lubrication. And when you lose that, this is where pain comes from.

Yeah.

And so this is a very, very common symptom of menopause in women who are not on hormone replacement.

And I started hormone replacement when I was 50, I'm now 54. But unfortunately I think it was too low of a dose. It was baby doses, starting off with just a little progesterone, then over the next year add a little bit of estriol vaginal like I just didn't have robust amounts. And perhaps I always wonder, gosh, if I had I had enough, if I would I have been able, would it bought me more time, would I been able to Reverse this. But I wish I kind of knew back then. And I hope women who are listening.

Now, I think what we didn't have is robust advice.

No.

Because we know that too little is too little now. Too much is too much. Right. This is absolutely a Goldilocks thing. And when you give bioidentical hormone replacement and all you do is titrate to symptoms, you're only going to be right about 30% of the time. And 30% of the time you're going to be overdosing people. And 30% of the time you're going to be underdosing people.

Right.

And this is a problem. And this is why it's so important. I, I don't believe in just giving people a little bit, like that whole theory of give the least amount for the shortest amount of time. That is absolutely wrong. That should be malpractice.

It should be.

Because you're not, you're not solving anything for those people.

Yeah. And I would say probably more than 30% would be underdosed, if you ask me. Yeah. It seems to be a much higher level of underdosing.

Yeah.

And this is born out of everyone's reluctance to even do hormones because they're afraid of the. They're afraid of the rhetoric that came out of the Women's Health Initiative. They're still buying into it, despite the fact that all of that information has been retracted and the paper was reprinted and all of that. But it's hard to unlearn and it's hard to unring a bell. And so they think that they're doing something safe by just giving a little bit.

Right.

And it's not helping women. No, it's not helping them at all. And underdosing does not serve them. But the only way that, you know, is to test. And most women who are being prescribed hormones are not being tested.

No. So doctors tell them it don't need to. They're not. I know. They're not interested.

I know. And that is ignorance. That is ignorance. That's why it's so important if you're going to go on hormone replacement. And I believe most women who are peri and postmenopausal should go on hormone replacement. But if you are going to go on hormone replacement, it should be with a hormone literate provider.

Absolutely. Absolutely. And unfortunately, not enough doctors out there. And they're not. I mean, I think they're being trained right now. It's great. But I, I went to the Institute of Bioidentical Medicine with Dr. David Rosensweet. I went through his program, which is there to teach doctors. I'm not a doctor, but I was curious, what are they teaching doctors? And in fact, it is really. After I went through the program, I realized, gosh, I understand maybe why some doctors don't want to do this because it's expensive and it takes time and you have to learn new things. And who has the time and the money for this? When you're trying to get patients in and out, it's so much easier just to rely on the sleep meds and the antidepressants and the things that they've already learned. And I get it. I get why they may not want to. And then, oh my gosh, you know, you can't just give a one size fit all. You know, forget that. I already understand how sleep meds work. I understand how she's probably going to react. And rather than have to titrate and figure out right dosages and then test her again, it's. It's just way too complicated for some doctors. And it, it doesn't have to be complicated, but unfortunately, I can see maybe why they are resistant and it's just gotta change.

Well, it probably feels very uncomfortable to them too, because most doctors, and I am a conventionally trained doctor, so, you know, I, I lived that. I experienced it. I know what education they get and I know what they don't get. And they are trained to do the one size fits all thing and they do not have any ability or education around individual customization. In fact, it feels so uncomfortable that people like Avram Blooming, who arguably wrote the bible on hormone replacement.

Right.

His book Estrogen Matters is the book bible on hormone replacement, except for the four pages that he chooses to trash bioidentical hormone replacement. And I'm not happy with him about this. Yeah, and this just shows his ignorance and discomfort in this area because he says he compares it to a ridiculous study about cancer patients that chose alternative methods to conventional methods of treatment and had poor outcomes. And the alternative methods that they're talking about are non medical treatments provided by non medical laypeople. So how he relates that study to bioidentical hormone replacement, I have no idea. And he criticizes compounding pharmacies.

Yeah.

And makes it like they're the wild, wild west when they are so highly regulated. My, my compounding pharmacy is uber careful about every single thing that they do for me. Every single thing. Whereas I'll call my regular pharmacy. First of all, I speak to someone who has no knowledge of anything and is totally Unhelpful is rushing me off the phone. And if I don't fit within their guidelines, too bad, right? So it is so crazy to me that he chose to pick on bioidentical because it is individualized. But most of the time, that's what people need. Like, why would I need the exact same prescription that you need? But it is time consuming. It is time consuming, and it's maybe more expensive.

But I wonder if he has another agenda.

He may. He may. And listen, I don't want to criticize him too much, because I think that he has done the world a great favor. He opened a lot of eyes to the fact that hormone replacement is safe, that hormone. Hormone replacement improves the quality, quantity, and longevity of a woman's life. So he has done us a great service. So I do. I am very, very grateful to him. I actually credit him with saving my life because I came out of Fellowship in 2003. So I came out of fellowship with a women's health initiative. And the gentleman who trained me, his name was Gordon Schwartz, and he was arguably, like, the grandfather of what we consider breast surgery. Like, he was one of the first surgeons to declare himself a breast surgeon, and he ran an international think tank, and he was a brilliant guy. But when he trained me in 2003, he taught me three things. He taught me hormones cause breast cancer. The only people that should be taking hormones are the people that absolutely, positively cannot live without it. And if you give hormones to said people, you should give the least amount for the shortest period of time. And this was one of the great thinkers of our time teaching me this. So I had no reason to question it. I mean, who am I to question it? I'm just a fellow. I'm not. I. I'm not the person that is creating all the practice guidelines for the world. So I accepted it as fact, just like everyone else did. When that women's health initiative came out, I accepted it as fact. And I op. I operated, no pun intended, under that mindset for, I don't know, 15, maybe close to 20 years. And then I did not go quietly into my good night. And when I went into menopause, I literally had every single symptom that you could mention. I was a disaster. I mean, I literally. My world fell apart. And I had a colleague who recognized that I was not the person she was used to seeing. And she said, honey, you need hormones. And I said, I can't have hormones. I'm from a breast cancer family. They cause breast cancer. She's like, who Told you that. Gordon Schwartz told me that in 2003. She's like, no, we have news. Data, honey, you need to look at the data. And I was actually recording a summit at that time. And I brought her on to the summit and she reviewed all of the data, and I sat there the whole time with my jaw on the floor, like. And I started hormones the next week and have not looked back.

Did they kick in right away or.

Did you have to wait for a while? Well, first I, I, first I read Estrogen Matters, which is why I credit him with saving my life. Because it was really the permission that I needed to go ahead and do this. And no, it did not kick in right away. It took me a while to get to where I needed to be. And I actually. Because I started off way, way, way too tentatively. And it wasn't until I, too, took Dr. Rosensweet's course and learned his method.

Yeah, yeah.

And so it really wasn't until I learned from him that I felt empowered to kind of go all the way and do all the things. And I mean it. They literally saved my life and saved a lot of people's lives. In translation, because now I'm out there providing hormone replacement for women with a history of breast cancer because I know that it's safe and I know that they will have a better quality of life as a result. And that means less recurrences, less mortality.

Less morbidity, and a better quality of life.

The data to show it.

Yeah, yeah. And they're living. They're living their lives. Yeah. And.

And I. I'm hoping to set the example for many practitioners, so. Because obviously I'm not gonna see everyone with a history of breast cancer. I need a. I need a team. I need a community. So how did we get off on this tangent?

How did you. Would you make a course for doctors that treat women for breast cancer?

Dr. Bergson and I are, Are. Are doing that course right now. Yeah.

Oh, I'm so happy. It's so needed.

So it is. It is needed.

Someone like you.

And I think there are a lot of people out there who are very well intentioned, who want to help, but they don't know how, when they're afraid. And that's what Dr. Berkson and I are going to do. We're going to teach them to be comfortable with the breast cancer patient, because people with breast cancer are people, too, and deserve the exact same consideration that the world shows everyone else, because right now they're being abandoned, and we want to give Them the tools to safely prescribe. Because people need training in both areas. They need training on how to care for the person with breast cancer, and they need training on how to properly prescribe hormone replacement.

Yeah.

So that's what we're up to.

That's. I'm super excited. Yeah, you're filling in such a huge gap. Because when I did the course, of course, you know, Dr. Rosenstreet, we, we. He learns, he teaches you how to treat the, the patient without cancer. So. So when I get this question, who, who can I see? I always send them to you because you're pretty much the one I feel most comfortable with treating a woman through. Through breast cancer. Who wants hormone therapy, he doesn't want to do tamoxifen, who wants to have other alternatives. And that's just one. Like, I need you to train a whole lot.

I know. I need an army. I'm building one, I promise.

When. When do you think that would be?

I don't like that terminology. Maybe I'm building a community. I don't like any of the fighting techno terminology. So we're gonna, we're gonna do the, we're gonna offer the course. The first course is going to be live, and we're gonna offer that in October. And then from then on, we'll record that and we'll be able to provide that online. Going from there.

Exciting. Okay, let me know. And we'll have to make an announcement.

We sure will. We sure will. Okay, so back to you. So you don't have osteoporosis. You have the bones of a. Of an 18 year old. God bless you. But you do have osteoarthritis and you lost that joint space. And maybe if you knew about proper hormone dosing, maybe it would have saved you. But in any event, at this point, it's water under the bridge. So I would love to hear about your experience with your bilateral hip replacement, because you did the both, right?

I did them both. But within three months I did one and then I supercharged. I got, I recovered so quickly. The doctor said, you know what, we'll have to do it. Well, we can do it as early as you like, because Normally you'd wait six to 12 months for the second one. So I have some great pre and post surgery hacks that obviously worked and I'm happy to share that too. Okay.

So I would love to hear about your hacks and I also want to hear about some of the roadblocks because there were some things that could be optimized that that really weren't.

Yeah.

So let's hear Share us. Share with us the, the, the experience. Take us through it.

So yes, once, once you, you're, you reach the end of your rope. I mean, I, I've really tried a lot of things, everything. And it's, I spent tens of thousands of dollars as well trying to avoid this. And, and again, things bought me time. Things brought relief. Like red light therapy was, was really great when it started to relief hurt. Ice bathing as well, getting into the cold massages, certain, certain types of massages were good. Myofascial release. I even went down the road of pain reprocessing therapy, looking within, journaling, doing all the inner work. You know, once you've tried all the outer work, you're like, okay, maybe I'm traumatized, maybe there's something in there. So you do explore all of these things and I think they definitely work for people. I, I, I, it lasted me for a while until it just didn't anymore. There are things I hadn't tried yet because I again ran out of time and ran money like exosomes or maybe stem cell therapy that's, that's had more time. But I've explored. I didn't optimize my hormones and now they are. But maybe it was too late. I didn't explore. I, I had heavy metals, I had heavy metal toxicity and that could have been another contributing factor. And I never explored the mold toxicity. I didn't feel that it was calling to me. But that could have been an avenue that I, that I should have explored as well. But when you run out of time running money, you just go, okay, I have to get better now because when you, you start to have chronic pain. I have so much empathy now for people with chronic pain. And as a gerontologist, I used to, I mean, we studied this stuff and, and, and you look at older adults and you think, oh, well, maybe they're just gluing, maybe they're just not doing the exercise. Maybe they're not. And, and now I understand that sometimes you can't.

And that's talk about what will age you. Chronic pain will age you like nothing else. When you are suffering, that sets off all of your inflammatory cascade.

Yeah, the nervous system, the, my autonomous nervous system was on such high alert with every step you take and you get, get used to chronic pain. I mean, you just think, oh, everybody must be doing this. And, and I think women have very high pain tolerance levels, so we just push right through it. And then I'm an Athlete. So I'm used to kind of pushing through pain. And you think it's okay or it's normal, but what's happening inside is not normal. And it's sending signals all throughout the body that there's a danger, there's alert. Be careful with this. Don't go too far. And what happens with osteoarthritis, you have stiffness, you have the joint pain, and you start to lose the range of motion. So you can't get in a car anymore, you can't ride a bike, you can. Can't have sex anymore. So your relationships go downhill. You can't be out with your friends because they're going for a hike, and you just can't do this anymore. And so this is one of the biggest mind ever, because you are really fighting with. With your. Your nervous system, but also you. You can get into a really depressive state. And the. Once I noticed that I was having this pity party, like, why me? I'm trying everything. I'm doing everything as I can, everything that I know exists. Then you. I understand why people, they stay home, they don't do anything. You. You gotta have some movement, but you're in pain. So I get it. I understand why people don't.

It takes your life away.

Absolutely.

Of your life.

Right.

And I want to talk about something here, because I'm sensing you went through this. I know I went through this. I know people who are trying to heal naturally from breast cancer go through this. Having surgery is not a failure. Needing surgery is not a failure. It's not a failure on your behalf. You didn't fail to do the things that you should have done to protect you from this outcome. It's not a failure. Two years ago, I had such debilitating sciatic pain. And when I tell you that I did all the things, I'm telling you I did all the things. I did all the things, including the things that you didn't do because you ran out of time or money or patience. I did all those things, and still I couldn't stand up. My. My sciatic pain was so bad and so debilitating. And last summer, or two summers ago, I can't remember at this point, I had a spinal fusion. And in a day like promised, my sciatic pain was forever gone. It's gone. I don't have it. And there wasn't a moment that I had before I had this surgery where I wasn't suffering. And I. Literally, all I did all day long was sit in a chair. Because the second I stood up, the pain was so unbearable. And my surgery, though the surgery was very, very hard and very, very painful. My surgery gave me my life back. Because what I had before I had that surgery wasn't life. You. Your surgery gave you your life back. And this is also true of people who have breast cancer. It is not a failure to have to have surgery. Sometimes that's what you need. And I want everyone to think about it from that perspective. Everyone's needs are different, and you get what you need. And if you have to have surgery in order to get better, in order to get out of pain, in order to heal, in order to get your life back, that's what you need to do. And it's okay. Give yourself permission. It's okay. You didn't fail. You did what you needed to do to move forward.

Absolutely. You said it so well. And I. I think once you get in the mindset, you accept, okay, I've done everything I can, at least for me. I said, I am going to rock this surgery. I get to do surgery because there's people with osteoarthritis around the world who don't get to do this, or they have to wait a year or two to get surgery. So I feel so privileged. So I change the mindset. Absolutely. Kind of have to go down before you come back up and you say, you know what? I'm, I'm. I'm. You cannot wait. When you make that decision, you cannot wait for this surgery because you know it's going to bring your life back. Yeah. And if you spoken to anybody who's had hip surgery, they are so excited for you because they know what pain you're in and their lives are so much better that I couldn't wait to do this. And I thought, this is going to be an opportunity for me to test some biohacks, to try all the peptides, to try some something new, and to see how I can come out of this bigger, better, faster, stronger. And I felt, you know what? I'm going to be the bionic woman. This is just going to supercharge my life. So I kind of flip it the other way. I'm just. That's the way. I'm a quite positive person. But, you know, you do have to sometimes have get into the. The pity party, and then you just make that decision and everything changes. And I was so excited, and people said, oh, I'm so sorry you're having surgery. I'm like, no, you don't understand.

See, that's what I mean.

Yet to do it. Yeah.

That's the mindset, right? It's like, oh, no, you have to do that. And you, you shifted to say, no, this is what I want to do. This is my choice. This is my opportunity. You use that word. And I love that word. I love when we can see these challenges instead of seeing them as challenges, see them as opportunities. Opportunities to do better. And you did an amazing experiment. You're n of one.

Yeah. Yes. And it's taught me so much and I've learned for other people as well. And I've done a solo episode on everything to pre and post hacks. It is the kind of information I wish doctors would have given me. I. They gave me nothing. At least I'm here in Spain and I don't know what it's like in the US but we didn't get a package or FAQ or nothing. I wasn't, all I was told is to come to surgery in a fasted state and that's it. And no, no post. Just I'll see you at the three week checkup. And I was thinking, I kept checking with my doctor, you know about BPC157? Do you know about this? You know, GHKCU for my scar? Do you know about, like, can I, can I, can I? He's like, I don't even know what you're talking about. And so, yeah, so I think it's given me some great information and anytime I meet somebody who's getting any kind of surgery, like, please talk to me because I have so many fabulous hacks to test out that are so vital. Not only just, you know, ties and things to buy, but there's some fundamental things that are just free that we should be doing in order to supercharge. If you're interested in healing faster, if you're not, like, you don't have to do any of this stuff.

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All right, so everyone's interested in healing faster. So let's hear how do you get on the healing faster highway?

Oh, wow. Okay. I'll try not to make this too long because I have the whole, whole thing and I've been so upset. That takes about an hour. So I will try to get through the quick, quick farted part of it. But pre operation you need. Your job is to build muscle. Your job is to try to maintain your muscle mass if you can. And I know it's hard if you are injured or if you're like me, but we have other parts of the body that we can exercise. We have our limitations. But you can still build. And so it's not only about doing your rehab exercises. Don't give up on this. You're, you know, you miss a lot of people I meet who are like, oh, I'll just start exercising. Get active. When, after surgery? No, no, now is the time to train for your surgery. You have to get your butt in the gym or with a trainer and start to exercise. And you've got to feed those muscles. Muscles can't grow, they can't be maintained if you don't feed them. And that's meaning getting enough protein, essential amino acids, whether that's taking a supplement, essential amino acid supplement or your whey protein, creatine, monohydrate, all collagen, all these things really, really help build, build and the muscle and as well help make it stronger. Your lithium A is another great for strength. And then getting all your bone supplements, whatever that may be. Right. There's plenty of stuff on the market. It'll usually have something with calcium, magnesium, vitamin D, D3K2 boron, you know, get your minerals in. This is kind of a really, really great time to upgrade supplements. And then I have a really great hack that I Learned from you, Dr. Jen, for your X rays, right. Because when you get a surgery you're probably going to have an X ray. And when we recorded with you, you told us about high dose vitamin C, 1 to 2 grams more or less before and plus high dose melatonin before.

The Technically that's low dose vitamin C, but it's high, high for oral doses. Yeah, yeah. So what I generally tell people get as close to 4 grams. So 4,000 milligrams. Get as close to that as you can before your X ray. You're only limited by it will give everyone diarrhea at some point. At everyone will get to the point where they can no longer absorb the vitamin D. It's an absorption issue. So vitamin C. Sorry. So I usually tell people to use a liposomal version or something that's more easily absorbed. If you use like the inexpensive ascorbic acid that you get at the, you know, corner pharmacy, that's just going to stay in your gut and you're not going to absorb it and it's not going to give you the antioxidant value that you're looking for. But the high dose melatonin is.

Right. High dose melatonin. I've, I never taken more than 10 milligrams. I wasn't sure. What to expect. I did. I did 160, more or less. I had 20. 20 milligram tablets. Pop those in one hour before my surgery and took my X ray. And actually, you're right. You said, okay, don't worry, you're not going to, like, fall asleep at the wheel or anything like that. I was fine. I was honestly fine. And in fact, I got a second wind, kind of was getting sleepy towards the end of the night where I should be sleeping, Got a second wind, and I was fine. I was fine. And then three days after, continued with. With the protocol.

So I think what I'm hearing you say is you want to go in at your best. You want to try to optimize yourself before surgery. And those people that think like, oh, you know, I'll get to it afterwards, you want to go in at your best. Because even at your best, I'm sure you had plenty of muscle loss from the surgery because, well, one day in bed takes three days to recover from.

Yeah, exactly. So you do. Because you are literally, at least in. In my case. I know in the US sometimes they get. People walk in the first two hours. My case, 24 hours in bed, they didn't want me to move. And then 24 hours, they want you to get up and start moving and all that. So you do lose the muscle mass. I had a great hack for preserving my muscle mass when you are injured and you are not able to really train well. And for me, that was the Katsu bands. It's like a partial blood flow restriction. And of course, you don't want to do this without some kind of guidance. You know, it's kind of like a glorified tourniquet, but I had one that is inflating and deflating in this sort of cyclical manner. And it's really, really safe for. For most people.

And so I think you had them on when we recorded last.

Did I?

You told me about them. And I like, what? But I have. I have heard about them, and I have seen people using them on Instagram or whatever, and I completely understand the chemistry and the. And the physiology behind. Just seems so painful to me that I can't. I can't fathom it.

Oh, it doesn't. It's not painful at all. Katsu bands, I. I could wear them for an hour, no problem. Really? Yeah. Yeah. It's the glove, it's the tourniquets, like the traditional BFR bands. I can't do it more than 10 minutes. I don't think anybody really should because There are, there are some contraindications. You'd be very careful with that. But the consequences. Yeah, no, in, in when you inflate for 30 seconds and deflate for five. This is cyclical, it's very gentle. I mean this was made for cardiac rehab patients. Okay, so it's not.

Okay.

Made for bodybuilders originally bodybuilders.

I've only seen the bodybuilders do it.

Oh, okay. Now there's, there's I again, this is when I was in gerontology, my courses, I was like, does anybody know about this cuts event? Because this is brilliant for my 85 year old father in law who is not going to go to the gym, he's not going to live tattoo shit and he's not going to do anything more than walking around his kitchen, but he can put on some bfr, some Katsu bands and walk, walk around. And that's what I was doing. I was, as I'm cooking, as I'm moving around, of course, my rehab exercises as well, you don't need a whole lot, you don't need to be training like an athlete to preserve the muscle mass. And there's so much study, there's so many studies on blood flow restriction. There's thousands of studies out there, these Katsu, Katsu studies as well. So it's something to really explore if you're trying to preserve muscle mass and even build it while you are injured. So it's not to say don't exercise, you gotta do your exercises, you gotta do your rehab. But adding those on is another fabulous hack to going into surgery with muscle mass and as well coming out without losing a whole lot, without importantly maintaining it. So that's, that's the, that's the, the muscle hack. So when you are before the operation, you're stressed about it, right? You're a bit worried. And I, as strong as I am, as brave I am, I was waking up at 2am days before the operation wondering is this going to hurt? Am I going to wake up in the middle of the operation? What if I do? Am I going to be traumatized all my life and pay therapists to try to get me just thoughts right? I was popping my progesterone like, okay, let's stop the racing mind and put me to bed. And I woke up, I was waking up with a CH pain in my chest and I thought, oh, I don't get anxiety. But this is anxiety, this is the way it's described, it's textbook. And I started to do, I was Told to do some new calm, which is neuroacoustic software to relax the brain, relax the mind. And I called the company. I was like, there's something I can do for my surgery. And they said, just do this three times a day. I was doing it three times a day. The day of the surgery, I slept like a baby. I woke up, that pain was gone. And I was like, bring it on. There's. I'm so ready for this. And I was. I'm just a fan. I'm a real fan. I used to use Newcom anyways for just meditation. But this I've heard from other people who around me who used it for anxiety. I said, okay, I'll popping it in and have my own experience. And it totally worked. And, Jen, I woke up in the middle the surgery. I was. I heard the song. I heard the song and I woke up. Yeah. And I thought, okay, I guess they're going to cut the bone now. And then.

Oh, my God. Did you feel anything? No.

You don't you feel. Well, no, I didn't until the hammer. I kept hearing it. And then I felt my leg moving with each. Well, I guess they were actually putting the implant now. I. Do they use a hammer? I guess they do. I was so drugged up. I was so relaxed. I mean, this is. This is what drugs are for. They sedated me big time. You're in and out.

Sorry, I have to, like, get my job off the floor.

My worst nightmare came true.

Everyone's worst nightmare. That's everyone, you know, that's everyone's worst nightmare about surgery is that they're going to wake up in the middle.

Yeah.

Oh, my God. You woke up in the middle.

And I could not believe how relaxed I was. I was coming from a place of curiosity. I thought, interesting. After a moment, I said, you know, I don't think I should be awake for this. And I kind of grunted or made a noise, and in two seconds, boom. I could feel the cold drugs just going through my body. And I was.

Yeah.

And then I woke up and I. The next day, I asked the surgeon, I said, did I. Did I wake up? And he says, yeah, he did. And we put you out. This is nuts. How come I'm not traumatized? I'm not like, I'm. He goes, those are the modern medicine. That's the magic medicine.

What. What I think is amazing is that most of the drugs that we get, because, I mean, people do wake up. It's not. It's not common. It's not common, but Depending on how anxious you are going in. Like, sometimes that cortisol can really be high, and it makes. It makes it hard to keep certain people very, very, very anxious people. It's harder to keep them asleep. But usually the drugs are amnestics in that they make you forget. So even if you wake up, you don't remember, because the drugs that they give you make you forget. But maybe they didn't give you amnestics.

I don't know. They gave me an epidural. They gave me a lot of, you know, on the IV with the hand and the crazy thing, I went in again for the second surgery and I woke up again. This time I said, I want to stay awake. And again, this is so not me. I'm not a gory person. I mean, I was having nightmares of this, but I came in this so curious, and I remembered seeing the doctor, the anesthesiologist coming to me, and I was like, no, no, I want to stay awake for this.

Wow.

He put me out anyways. Yeah. But I. I just am fascinated how. And again, I'm. I ca. The reason I was worried about this, because I know the body keeps the score, right? Body doesn't forget. Somebody's cutting you open. And that's why I was worried, like, how am I going to react? How am I going to. If this happens? And again, I think like you said, it's. I've got some amnesia, some kind that is able to somehow deal with this well.

But there is something about. You had an epidural, so the pain pathway is blocked before, so you're not. You may have some visceral reaction to a similar noise.

Right.

That a similar noise may be able to take you back to that place, but you won't necessarily associate it with pain. And that's the important part. You don't want to associate it with pain. I. I can only tell you that when I had to have a C section with my. With my son, and it was very, very rushed, and I did. I did not have. I wasn't fully anesthetized, and I. I can still. He's. He's 18 years old. He's going to be 19 next week. I can still feel the tugging and the pulling and the. I can still feel it today. So if the pain pathway is not properly blocked, your recollection is not. So, I mean, of course, I got my beautiful love, my life. So, yeah, you know, I'm all good.

Yeah. I also had C section. I had two. So I knew that feeling. But when you go in for a surgery and they're cutting. Cutting off limbs, you kind of think, oh, gosh, I don't know if it'll be the same. Yeah, same. And.

And you're totally weak. It's not nearly as rewarding.

No, but it. But it is.

It is.

Because I get a life back.

Yeah, and you got your life back.

Scary. So my point is, no matter how brave you are, you probably have some sort of worry about your surgery, if it's going to go right. What if I get an infection? What if something goes wrong? What if, you know, what if. What if. What if, what? What if, what if Worry doesn't do anything for us. So this is a point where you got to find out what works for you to calm that nervous system. For me, it was new calm. Somebody else will be breath, work somebody else in meditation, anything. Just find out what you can do to get a good night's sleep. Because getting a good night's sleep will help you so much through the surgery as well. And I know it's hard, but work on that. Days, weeks, months before your surgery. The moment you find out, please work on that. It's good for you anyways. But, you know, just warning you, as you get closer to the date, you may have a little bit of stress. Yeah.

And then take us to after.

Um, one thing.

I want biohacks for after.

I want to give one tip when you're in the surgery room, and that was given to me by a friend of mine, and I think it was really, really helpful. And I don't know if you've experienced this as a doctor when you're, you know, when you're with your patients, but you're on that table, right? And that's pretty impressive. Those operating room doors open a big light, and you see that table. It's like Frankenstein. It's. It's. It's impressive, wheeling up there on the table. Right before they put me out, I said, look, I don't know if I'm going to see all of you on the other side. There's like 10 people in the room, more or less. But I just want to tell you how grateful I am that you're going to take good care of me. Right? And so it sets the tone. And people are just getting a nice smile. They're busy. They got lives and kids and parents and things that happen. And I just kind of thought that was just such a brilliant moment to. To say thank you, because I don't know if I'll see them. And, like, I probably won't because these are people in the operating room. I just see the surgeon, I don't see the whole team. And I did bring a big basket of fruit for everybody and I just thought, okay, nice doing something. Yeah. From the heart. I mean, these people have my lives, my life in their hands. They do a little bit of gratitude wasn't a whole lot to do and I felt better and they felt better. So I hope, you know, some people can take away that tip and thank their team, thank their doctors for, for the work that they're, they're doing and going to do. So.

Yeah, so then after, let's get some, let's get some useful tips for recovery and then I, I want you to talk about bone health because lots of people are concerned about the osteoporosis and osteopenia and let's, so let's make sure that we wrap up with bone health. But I want to hear about the hacks that you, that you found that worked for you afterwards and made it made you have such a speedy recovery that they were willing to let you have the second side done right away.

Yeah, it's worth it. It's worth every effort you make. So your job post operation is to reduce inflammation, preserve or build your muscle mass, building bone and detoxification. Right. We've had a lot of antibiotics, medicine and anti inflammatories put in us. So now you know and that's okay. Accept all drugs. You don't want to be in pain. That's just really, really important. So don't worry. I didn't ask questions anymore. I said don't worry, I'll detox later. Just make me sleep right now and be out of pain. So, so that's your job. So the things that are like all the general stuff do, do probably maybe what your doctor is telling you, maybe you need to ice it. You could, you gotta move it. Gotta do your rehab. Some people need to elevate their legs. Red light therapy is also really fabulous. After you finish the icing part of that. Lots of patients, please, lots of patience. That's really hard. And then the supplements too. I mean you, you, you're, you know, a lot of these supplements, I won't go through, through most of them because they're, they're kind of basic understanding is turmeric and NAC for, you know, anti inflammatory, anti inflammatory and detoxification.

Yeah.

Charcoal, the chlorella, the glutathione, you know, zeolite, bentonite, clay, these kinds of things. These are great for, for that and omegas as well. Two things I thought were really, really useful for me to bring to the hospital, because I was there for four days. But whether you're in the hospital or you're at home, your job, getting in the protein, essential amino acids is so easy. And it's different. They're different than the proteins, different than the whey protein, which I'm a fan of. It's different. And it's so much easier to get in, especially if you're not hungry. After surgery, some people feel nauseous, people don't have appetites and all that. So getting your supplements, whether it's new supplement or powder, whatever it is, get your essential amino acids because now is the time to build and rebuild. Somebody just cut you open, whether it's on your face because you've had facelift, or if it's your boob from mastectomy, or if you had hip operation or knee operation, you need to rebuild. So essential amino acids is such an easy way to get that in, especially if you're not hungry. The other thing I took was Energy bits, which is like spirulina and chlorella.

Love, love, love. I am. I am actually interviewing Katherine Arnston, who is now Dr. Arnston.

Oh, she got her degree.

She did, she did. So I. I hope that I'm one of the first people to interview her as Dr. Arsten. But her product is head and shoulders above everyone else's, so. And we'll actually put the link to energy Bits in this. In the. In the show notes for this.

Yeah. To the hospital.

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. And at the dose, that is the higher detoxification dose, which would be the 30 tablets a day if you're just doing maintenance. 15. But if you are working on detoxification and working on getting function back, you definitely want to be doing the 30 a day. The thing that you didn't talk about, you touched on appetite a little bit and nausea. I actually think before your surgery and after your surgery, you should be fasting because you want your cells to be in a healing state and that that healing state is accomplished by fasting. So not for two weeks before.

Right.

But the day before the surgery, the day of surgery, and then I really tell people not to eat until they're hungry again. You can absolutely drink. I want your bowels to wake up. You've had a lot of pain medicine, a lot of anesthesia that slows down gut motility for sure. So I want your bowels to wake up, but it's not going to Happen by feeding before you're ready. And your body will tell you when it's ready for food and when it wants food. So this is really a time when you need to dial into your intuition and know I'm ready to eat and that's when you should eat. So I agree that, yes, you need essential amino acids, you need, you need the building blocks, you need detoxification for sure. That's all true. But your gut is not working well after surgery. Even if you didn't have gut surgery, your gut is not working well after surgery. And wait for your gut to wake up before you start to give it a lot of things.

That's good advice. Yeah, for me, it was probably, definitely 24 hours. Was, yeah. Sailed through. I was probably hungry sometime after the 24 hour mark.

Yes, yes. And, but most people try to eat the next day. And I, I always ask people, if you're hungry, please, by all means, but don't eat because someone put a tray in front of you or because it's what you think you should do to heal. Because our bodies are very, very intelligent and we know what we need. We just have to dial into that intuition. Your body will tell you when it's ready for food and when it wants food.

Yeah, that's interesting. So definitely the, well, when it comes to, when, when you're thinking about taking essential amino acids, you know, it's, I thought, well, okay, I'm not eating, I'm not hungry. Or, you know, it's, I can drink, I'm thirsty, I really thirsty. I, I use a powder, so that was okay. But the energy bits, they're teeny tiny. They're like baby aspirin. I thought, you know what, I need some nutrition in me and I'm, you know, I don't know how long I'm not going to be hungry for. It was, you know, around the 24 hour mark. I popped these in because the spirulina was really high nutrition. Chlorella was the detoxification.

Yeah, they're very nourishing, for sure. Yeah, very nourishing.

So would you say then, then 24 or. I don't know, you would wait also with the energy bits until you feel hungry?

Not necessarily. I think the supplements are fine. I just think that because they're very easily absorbed. Like once, once they, once they break down, they're very easily absorbed. But the other thing is, I mean, if you're still feeling nauseated, I wouldn't put anything.

Yeah, yeah, it probably would come up as well. If you are feeling Nauseated. Yes. Putting anything in there other than I.

Wouldn'T drink anything in. And I also think that it's okay to wait to do anything until your gut comes back online, until you're hungry. I mean, you should definitely drink, right. You should definitely drink water if you can drink water. If you can't drink water, you should be hooked up to an iv.

Yeah, right.

Like that. That. That is necessary. We can go for a very long time without food. We can only go for three days without water.

Yeah. Right.

So we need the hydration for sure. For sure. But that as far as eating, supplementing, I really wait for the gut to come back online.

Yeah. Then that reminds me as well, bringing some sort of a. Something to. To move the bowels if, you know, again, there's so many supplements out there. Absolutely. Something called Move by Theranortic. There's just. There's stuff out there. Castor oil packs. Some people love as well. Magnesium. Getting the bowels moving is because everything shuts down. Right. And you can go for days without a bowel movement. And that's not really good either. Right.

That part's not good. You're right. That part's not good.

Yeah. So that's easy to hack. But now I want to get into some of the more advanced hacks because I think this is. If people are. Love the biohacking thing. This is what's been a program that was put together by a team from. For me, from regenerative medicine, doctors and biohackers and other. Other practitioners there. And I. And I got testing them out both hips a little bit differently with both. But I have to say it was a real game changer for me. And when I talk a little bit about the peptides, first One was the BPC 157. And that's. That's injectable from me. And other people would maybe do fine with something else, depending on your surgery. Because this is a big trauma. I had to inject myself. And this is a. A peptide that is very often used for gut and gut healing. So I thought, you know what? I've got a lot of gut. Gut. Gut attacks going on right now. I need to probably protect the gut and heal and seal for whatever. It's been doing so great. But it's also great for building muscle and repairing tissue as well as bone. So that was. There's like triple whammy here for me. So I was doing those injections and then I. And of course, speaking of the gut and healing it. Getting a good probiotic after as well.

As well, absolutely.

You're on antibiotics for, for a while. And then the other thing that was a great game changer was Thymosin Beta 4 or TB 500, which is a synthetic form of Thymus. And Beta 4, either one is. Would be great. And this again is another injectable peptide. Again, supercharging the tissue repair and the muscle repair, and it's, it's just fabulous for lowering inflammation as well. And I had, I didn't have the TB500 with the first tip. I took it with a second. And I did notice an uptick in my healing and the recovery with the second one. So if all you can get is BPC1 P7, great. You can do them both. And they're very often sold together because they just make a great. They have a great synergistic effect. Love this. These two peptides get. Get guidance from a peptide expert. I don't know if, Dr. Jen, you. You also deal with peptides or you prescribe them at all.

Some. I am not, I'm not regularly using the ones that you mentioned, but I certainly. If someone is having a big reconstructive surgery, I do recommend them. If you're having a lumpectomy, it's probably not necessary.

Okay.

But if someone's having a big reconstructive surgery. Absolutely.

And sometimes these things come as nasal sprays or as a tablet. And again, it has for, you know, for me, I just needed real powerful. So that's why injectable is just kind of more powerful. The other thing that was recommended was nandrolone decant. And this is an anabelic steroid. And it's got a bad rap from the bodybuilding community. I couldn't get a handle hold of this myself because I was in Spain.

I don't even know what word you're saying. Can you say that again?

Nandrolone. Nandrolone decant. And, and that is if given in small doses and for a short period of time, it helps with the building of the muscle. It's an anabolic steroid that has been, again, if I think been used appropriately. This was, this was recommended to me by the Boulder Longevity Institute. And I would have had, you know, the guidance of them if I could actually get a hold of it, but something to look into.

Okay.

Okay. And the last thing is, I mean, you could. Again, I couldn't get ahold of this one. Cerebralysin is a. Is a neuropeptide and it helps with the nerve healing and reduce the inflammation, and it helps protect the brain, your brain is also taking a hit. The big surgery like this, I couldn't get it. But again, another rabbit hole for anyone to go down if they want. And another last, simple, really easy hack I think is methylene blue. And you and I talked about this and, and I think with the episode I had with you, but it is a great hack for antiviral, antifungal, it helps with mitochondrial function. It's just going to, again, it's simple hack that we can supercharge ourselves with.

And, and methylene blue is becoming. Methylene blue use is becoming more and more common and unfortunately that also means it's becoming a little bit more and more bastardized. So don't, don't use the ones that are very readily available because there's usually a reason why they're very readily available. But talk to your compounding pharmacist about methylene blue and methylene blue formulations. Don't put the blue tablets in your mouth, they will stain everything. You definitely want it compounded and want it put into a capsule so that you don't have a blue stained mouth. But know that if you're going to take methylene blue, your urine is going to change color and a lot of the time you can notice a little bit of a blue tinge in your skin.

Yes, yes. This is, that's when you take a little higher dose. So, yeah, anyone who's, who's interested in this, again, there's experts out there understanding methylene blue and your dosage. And you, Dr. Jen, probably know exactly how much somebody needs because there's different dosages for different people, right?

Yes.

Depending on your weight for different purposes, Right, Exactly. If you're using it for biohacking, it's different than if you're using it for recovery. So work with someone who knows what they're doing. I want to transition to bone health because as it turns out, as many people die every year is a complication of a fracture as do of breast cancer. And many people do not know that statistic. And we're out here talking about breast cancer till we're out of breath and we're not talking about a real problem, which is the complications of osteoporosis. And the way that our society has dealt with bone disease is that we've kind of taken this watch and wait method. So we wait for people to fall off, the, fall out of range. Right. We wait, we wait for them to fail and then we put them on bisphosphonates. But bisphosphonates Are not the solution. So what are some, what are some solutions? How do you, how do you get the bone health of a 17 year old?

Like you have.

What, what, what are some of the things that people can do to improve their bone health? Because a lot of people are thinking about it.

Yes, it's really important. It's something we, we really cover in gerontology. A lot of fall prevention. That's, you know, it's like, why are we studying this? Why? Because of the statistics of death within the first three to six 12 months, which are very, very high. I've heard anywhere between 15 and 30% of the people are dying over the age of 65 simply from, you know, a fracture. And it could be because of complications in the hospital or their, their life has changed. There's many reasons for that, but it is a big, serious thing. And this is why also when we talk about bone health, we talk about muscle health as well. Having more muscle mass has a direct impact on your bone and your bone health. And perhaps that's also what save bone follows muscle. Yes. Right.

So as you build muscle, so too will you build bone.

Exactly. They go hand in hand. So the things that we're doing for, for a muscle is also great for our bones. But when we, we also have to take into consideration that what you see in a DEXA scan is not always accurate. Right. You may be told you have osteopenia because you have low bone density. But if you take a REMS scan, that's an R E M S scan, looks at bone strength and strength is important because you could maybe have a low density but not get a fracture because your bones have very high quality. And this is where I think you should, if you haven't done an interview with Gary Rhodes or somebody who understands REM scans, I think it's amazing because when I had, I did have osteopenia of the spine, that made me really worried. And I thought, well, you know what makes sense? I'm low hormones and I can't do impact exercises and I gotta fix the, I know I can reverse it. But when I tested a RAM scan REM scan, it said your bone quality is very high, almost the quality of a gymnast. And so not to, you know, worry so much about the osteopenia. You still need to do everything you can, but it's not something to worry much as, as, as you are concerned about it. You want the bones to be strong. So that comes with diet, lifestyle, your supplementation, your exercise, getting impact, building strong muscles. And you can Add in some, some other supplements. So many things that we can do. But I think it's, it's something we have to always work on. No matter if you are clear and you have, you know, great bone health, it doesn't mean we can relax. As we age, our bones are continued to break down. Especially if you, you are menopause. We're breaking it down faster than we're actually building it up. This is why hormone therapy has been approved. It's like one thing everybody can agree on is that we can prescribe this for our bones. So, so really, you know, hormone therapy, getting your hormones optimized is so key. And this is what I've been working on myself in order to improve my, my bone density. Because I don't want to say, oh, just because I have good, great bone quality. I don't want to like just say, oh, I can relax and do anything I want. No, I'm going to still continue to optimize and continue to work on that. Because this is just something, as we age, we need to be concerned.

Yes. And I want to stress that you have to put stress on your bones in order to have bone health and bone strength. So that means weight bearing, exercise, so you can be doing swimming until the cows come home. And if you are not damaging the bones and causing these micro fractures that then get repaired, you are not going to have bone strength. It requires damage and repair. That whole process needs to be happening and that's happening from weight bearing, exercise.

Just like muscle that we need to tear it a little bit, we need to break it down.

Yes.

But again, the muscle and the bone cannot grow if we don't feed it. So getting the right nutrients is.

Agreed. Key. Agreed. So this bit, this has been amazing. I just want to end by you telling the story about what you wish your doctors would have given you. And before we started to record today, you told me a story about byok, which is something that I had never heard of before. I'm used to byob, but BYOK is a new one for me. What does that mean?

Bring your own crutches. So spelled with a kid.

Who, who would have, who would have thought that you need to. Oh, BYOC crutches or star spelled with a C. I don't know why I did that.

More fun.

You have to bring your own crutches. Who brings their own crutches?

Yeah, I didn't think about this. This is something to ask your doctor again. Maybe you have some fabulous hospital and a fabulous doctor. There are. I mean, I, I'M I've only had this surgery here in Spain and I was shocked that I didn't, I wasn't told to bring, I wasn't told to bring anything again except come in a fasted state and so really want to pin down your doctor and say, do I need to bring my own crutches? Do I need to bring my own, who knows, dressings, Maybe I need to bring my own. And, and, and I didn't, I didn't know post operation when I go home I need to have all the dressings. I'm going to have to change this myself. I needed to have band aids, I need to have antiseptics and they had to teeth, they taught me this. But again, if the doctor doesn't tell you, you find out at the last moment and then if you're kind of on your own and you're going to take care of yourself and you, who's going to go to the pharmacy for you.

So that's one thing, I do think that in the US that is something that is well covered, that people have, that there are programs in place and people are well supported through that. But for sure they're not being spoken to about diet, they're not being spoken to about optimization because most of the time the truth is that the people that end up in the orthopedic surgeon's office and end up there because they are far from optimal.

Right.

Most of them are not like you and I who needed the surgery in order to get back to being optimal.

Yes, right, exactly.

And so they're not being talked to about diet, they're not being talked to about optimization, they're not being talked to about the supplements that make a huge, huge, huge difference. Difference. So they're not getting essential amino acids or creatine, creatine monohydrate or collagen or urolith and A, or calcium, magnesium, vitamin D, K2, boron. They're not being told about how to protect themselves when they were having all of these radiographs done and you're getting X ray after X ray after X ray. They're not being told to use vitamin C before. They're not being told about high dose melatonin and they're not, they're certainly not being told about the importance of sleep, how to reduce inflammation, red light therapy, ice supplementation, having patience and grace with yourself. They are not being told about any of these peptides. Definitely not being told. And that's because the doctors don't know. And it's time for a paradigm Shift. And the only way that we're going to get a paradigm shift is by people like you being out there talking about this show, shedding light on the topic so that we can all get educated. And we can take that education to our providers and say, listen, you need to know about this, because I don't want mediocrity. I want the best, and you should be offering me the best. It was wonderful to have you today. Any last words that you want to leave with people?

I really would love for them to be open about the conversation of surgery. Whatever kind of surgery you're getting, don't be ashamed. It's not. I don't want. I want this stigma to go away, and it's okay. And when you make that decision, I understand. We all try to avoid surgery. Surgery is always the last resort. And this is. I was convinced, you know, too many people are getting surgeries unnecessarily. I still believe. I just had to be sure. Am I one of those? And so you do go through this whole thing, and that's okay. Okay. You've tried it all. When you've made that decision, you embrace it. You take it on as a challenge. You take this opportunity to learn about everything you can do to optimize your health. If you're interested in a quick recovery and to protect your future self, yeah, absolutely.

Well, thank you so much for sharing your experience. I, of course, wish you continued healing and may you be even stronger than you were before. And I hope that everyone gets a lot of benefit out of having heard our conversation and that you can approach things like this that do come up in your life with curiosity and enthusiasm and know that this can take you to a better, stronger place. And that it's nothing to be ashamed of. And it's not a failure. It is just another part of life that we sometimes need to walk through to get to where we're going. And if you're feeling like you're stumbling, it's okay. It's okay to stumble. Just keep going. As my friend Dr. Kellyanne tells me, just keep moving.

Well said. I love it. Thank you so much to see you.

Today and thank you all for joining us. If you liked this podcast, please share it with someone that you know. Send us a comment. We'd love to hear your thoughts and know that I will be back next week, same time, same place. It's Dr. Jen.

Bye. Bye.

Thank you for joining me on this episode of the Keeping a breast podcast with Dr. Chen. I hope you found the discussion informative and empowering Remember, breast health is health, so by staying informed and taking proactive steps, you have the power to optimize your well being. My team and I encourage you to apply the knowledge gained from today's episode to make positive changes in your life and share what you've learned with others. If you enjoyed this episode, please subscribe to our podcast and leave us a review. Your feedback and support mean the world to us and help us to reach more people who can benefit from these conversations. Stay connected with me on social media where I share additional resources, advice, updates and announcements related to breast health. You can find me on Facebook, Instagram and YouTube. Rjensimmons and remember, MyGen has two apps, so until next time, remember to stay proactive, informed and confident in your breast health journey. The key to your health is you.