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Hello and welcome. I'm Dr. Jen Simmons, a breast cancer surgeon turned integrative oncologist on a groundbreaking mission to transform the conversation around breast health. If you're seeking to redefine the way that you think about breast health, you're in the right place. Breast health isn't just an aspect of well being. It is health, integral and indispensable. Here on the Keeping Abreast podcast, we delve deep into the innovative ways to diagnose, treat, screen for, and prevent breast cancer. But it's more than that. It's about having the crucial conversations that empower, enlighten, and drive us all to a healthier place. As someone who has navigated the front lines of breast cancer treatment and now champions an integrative approach, I bring a unique perspective to these discussions with blending rigorous science with holistic health principles. Health is a journey, not a destination, and I am truly honored to accompany you on this path. Each episode aims to provide you with actionable insights and cutting edge strategies to take charge of your breast health and your overall well being. So whether you're here to learn about the latest in medical advancements or seeking tips on lifestyle changes that foster real health, they the Keeping Abreast podcast is your go to resource. Let's embark on this journey together, because when we talk health, every conversation matters. And now, stay tuned for this week's episode.

Brace yourself, because it's not every day that we get a celebrity chef inside of the podcast. So today, I am so delighted to.

Have James Barry here with us to.

Talk about his whole upbringing, when he.

Learned about food, when he learned about.

The importance of food, and how that figured into his career decisions and his final decision to make being a chef and nourishing us as his life's mission and life's goal. So he's had 16 years in the culinary field. He started as a private chef to a lot of a list, celebrities like Tom Cruise and George Clooney and Gerard Butler, Sean Coombs, who we don't like to talk about these days, but Barbra Streisand, John Cusack, I mean, this man has lived and done it. And then he decided that that just wasn't a big enough mission. And we know all about that here because we have big goals and big missions here. And he has one too. So if you want to hear all about it, sit tight, stay tuned because here comes James Barry. Okay, so you started off as a chef and kind of worked your way up the ladder. You've. You've worked with some Pretty important people. Pretty well known people.

I don't know how important. We're all important. Yeah, Chen. We are all important.

Yeah, I hear you. Some pretty well known people. So talk to me. I actually am fascinated by all this because my son is very, very interested in this line of work. So I love to hear, like, where this came from. Did you always cook? Who taught you to cook? Like, give me the beginnings.

Yeah. I mean, it's gonna sound like I'm just being funny, but I grew up in a household where we knew dinner was ready because the smoke detector went off. Oh, this.

This star of America's Worst Chefs.

Yes. So we all start somewhere. And to this day, my mom is still kind of just amazed that she has a, you know, a. A chef for a son. But I did, you know, at a.

Very early age, either grow up exactly like our parents or exactly the opposite.

Yeah. So. And we need contrast to become the opposite. And I had lots of contrast. There you go. Yeah. So I. I actually did have an affinity for cooking at a very young age. I was, I think I learned to scramble an egg at about the age of seven, and I was, like, hooked. Like, I. From that moment on, I was, like, trying to cook with my parents in some way, whether it's my dad at the barbecue or my mom in the kitchen, which is. Sounds very stereotypical, but that's kind of how it was back in the 70s. Like, dad's barbecued and moms did the kitchen stuff.

So that was just for my dad, who didn't. Neither.

Yeah, there you go. Or they didn't eat. Yeah, exactly. So. But that was my household. And then I was hungry to learn more. I had a neighbor who was much more like a gourmet chef, and he would make. I thought it was amazing. He would make spaghetti sauce from scratch. Like, that's the kind of house our household was. Wow.

Yours doesn't come from a jar.

I was like, what? You can. You don't. Yeah, I, I, you know, it is kind of funny. You, you know, and this goes, of course, with health or anything in life. We only know what we know. Right? For sure.

Yeah.

And so I, you know, because I grew up in a household where everything was bought already pre made or packaged. We didn't. My mom was not a baker making cookies. Like, it. That never happened. It was like we had cookies. It was like Oreos. You know what I mean? And so to see, as I've gotten older, to see people, like, make hummus from scratch. I remember when I went to culinary school, And I. And I learned how to make hummus. I thought hummus was this complicated, you know, foreign food that was just no American would ever know how to make. And it was like, four ingredients. And I was like, what?

And it's really good when it's only four ingredients. It's one of the best things that I make. I was laughing so much when you were saying that your mom never made cookies, because, I mean, I grew up with a working mother. Like, I didn't come from nowhere. The leaf doesn't fall very far from the tree. But my mom did make a couple of things. She made homemade spaghetti sauce. It was amazing. She made what we used to call pig slop, which was. She made homemade veal parmesan. And so we would have, like, the stations where we would do the egg and then the flour and then the egg and then the breadcrumb. And so, you know, your, like, hands get covered in that. She made beef stroganoff. That was, like our special occasion thing for when, like, that was our family celebratory meal.

Oh, okay. Yeah. And that's nice.

And then what was your next one? For Jewish holidays, she would make brisket.

Brisket, yeah. Which is so good even when it's so overcooked like that, because.

Well, I think that that's the point of it, I think.

Yeah.

Well, also, it was. It was a really, really inexpensive and probably, like, dangerous cut of meat. Like, it was the worst of the worst. So you had to cook it in order to even be able to eat it. You had to, like, overcook it for days to be able to eat it.

And I. I need a preface. So I'm Jewish. My mother is Jewish, which makes me Jewish. My dad is not, but I'm still Jewish on her side. So a lot of our. The culture I grew up with is Jewish culture. And. And as I've gotten older and I'm now more aware of cooking and stuff like that, it is really also cultural. Like, the Jewish culture overcooks their food in general. Like, yes. Meats, yes. Not. I didn't mean to say food, but meat.

Yeah.

Because that's. Everything was, you know, had to be.

Overcooked for safety reasons.

Absolutely. I think it was, like. It was, like, burned into everyone's skin. Like, do not eat anything that's pink. You know, I mean, it's like. It's like. Yeah. I mean, and for good reason, of course. You know. I mean. Yeah, yeah, I get it. But it is interesting as I had to really unlearn a Lot of that. Like I had actually learned to like, you know, beef that's more medium rare or rare. And it took some time.

Yeah, so. So tell me about that. Tell me about culinary school.

Yeah, it was really, it, it was. Cooking was not something I saw as a career. We, we have to remember. So I was born in the early 70s. Back in the day there were really two chefs on TV. It was not at all like there were no food networks. There was nothing like that. Anyone that's. There was Julia Child, right? It was Julia Childs. And it was. I remember there was a guy named. Who was like the Frugal Gourmet and they were both on pbs.

Oh, I remember him. Yeah.

Right. So they were like.

Then there was, there was something that. In the 80s, right? Because in the 80s it started with Bam. What? What? Emerald. Emerald Lasse came on the. Came on the scene. Am I wrong? Was it, was it later than that?

I, I don't think it was 80s, but you're right. But he did start coming on talk shows, you know, in morning shows. But he didn't have his own show. If I. Or maybe he. You know what, maybe you're right. Maybe he did.

He had his own show. I just don't remember when it was.

It could have been the 90s though, but I could be wrong. But you're right, he was scene later. But when I was younger though and I was impressionable around this stuff, it was Julia Childs and that other guy, they were both on pbs. So it was like this offshoot channel. Right. That was kind of looked at as low. Not low brow but low cost. Right. So it was like.

Yeah, no, it was bare bones.

Right. You know, bare bones like you're not going to make your fortune doing this. So.

Right.

I didn't see it as a career. I genuinely thought like, oh, this is something I'm going to do as a hobby. Because the only other option was to own a restaurant. And for some reason at 12 year old. 12 year olds. 12 years old, I was like, I'm a family man. I can't be working late at night. Like literally. That's the, that was the mindset I had.

Really interesting that you had that insight because I think most people like, including my husband, I think still has dreams of us owning a restaurant. And I'm like, who, who's working there?

Yeah, exactly.

I can't even handle the jobs I have now.

Exactly. No, owning a restaurant is incredibly low margins. And it's, it's, it's, it, it's all It's a night and day, I mean, and stuff breaks down, you got to deal with it. I mean, I, I owned a meal delivery service in la and it was, yeah, it was different than a restaurant, but it was, it was very close. I mean, we had our own kitchen. We had, we dealt with a lot of the same things restaurants deal with. Yeah, it's, it's, it's rigorous and it's exhausting and it's for the young, let's put it that way.

Yes, for the young.

I'm interested in, in working smarter, not harder at this point.

I hear you. I'm gonna get there one of these days.

Yeah, right.

But it's not now, sadly. Unfortunately, it's not now.

But so what I was going to say though is so I actually I, I saw cooking as a hobby until 9 11. 911 was very much our generation's Pearl harbor. And it really made me reevaluate my life and I was pursuing acting in the entertainment business. And while I loved creativity and I loved that process, I never saw it as the end of the road. I never saw it as like, once I achieve this, I'm done. I always saw it as a stepping stone to all the other things I want to do, which was like, you know, cook and work with people and help them with their health or like write a book or just other things. And I just saw the acting. I was like, oh well, if I get big enough name, then it will just make all those other things easier. Well, after 9 11, I was like, why am I waiting? What am I waiting for? And I basically audited my life. And I was like, well, what is it really? Like, I want every choice from this point on on to have heart, to truly be something that I am here to do. And that's when I re tapped into cooking because I was like, you know, that is something I've always loved. Like, why am I waiting? Why am I not looking for other avenues of how to do it? Why am I not thinking outside the box for it? And then, and then poof. All these things started to materialize. I learned about this New York school that was known for healthy cooking. And I, I eventually I am curious.

Why was 911 so impactful for you? Did you know people or was it just a wake up call for you?

Yeah, both. I did. You know, my mother's from Coney island, used to visit there all the time. I did know people living there. My cousin was across the bay in Jersey and watched it happen. So it was, it was very real. I think, I think most of us, even to this day, a lot of times war is something we see through it, through a screen.

Yeah.

And we don't always have a connection to it other than the idea that, you know, I don't want people to be hurt or, you know, or, or it's a country that I feel close to or I visited there something, something like that. But it's, it, it doesn't come like the war doesn't come out of the screen and actually tap you on the shoulder. And that, that was the first time where it was like, oh, this just happened on American soil. We've been privileged up to this point to not have much happen.

Yeah.

And, and it felt, yeah, just kind of. I was at that age, I was probably, you know, in my late 20s and I was just at that age where it was like, you know, times that ticking like I don't, I don't want to be spinning my wheels. I want to get more grounded in why I own why am I on this planet. And I truly believe we all have a why. We just need to tap it. And sometimes it takes a lifetime and sometimes kids are born already knowing. But I do believe that's part of the journey.

So out of curiosity because certainly when we came up, around the time that we came up, healthy cooking wasn't really a thing. I mean, you know, the age of Julia Childs, we don't really think about her creations. While masterful. Masterful, we're not necessarily healthy. And then beyond that, although she was using real food. So I could, I can embrace what, what she did and what she believed in. And you know, she was amazingly talented and inspired gener of people for sure. But those 80s hit and our dietary values tanked. I mean we went from a whole food eating society to everything was processed and ultra processed and you know, the fast food industry exploded. And how. When did healthy cooking become a thing for you?

Yeah, it's a really good question. Do you remember when Snack Wills came out and how the whole fat free thing came?

Oh, I do. And I remember the 20 pounds that went on my ass when Snack Wells came out.

Yeah, yeah. All I just, it's just like all that is is, is a part of the journey. But you know, ultimately what it was. I had this incident happened right out of college where, gosh, I've never actually shared this very openly, but it's, I'm happy to, I just, it's just rarely ever come up. But I, I had a situation come up where I had been feeling like I hadn't been eating well, and I had had stuff previously when I was a little younger that was clearly indicative of like, you're, you're dehydrated, you're not getting enough, you know, whether it's having issues, you know, hemorrhoid kind of stuff or something like that. And so that was, that happened in my teens. So clearly something was wrong, but I didn't understand it. And, and nor did I have a doctor or parents who were like, hey, maybe we should be thinking about what we're eating.

Are we allowed to say that you were constipated?

Oh, yeah.

Okay.

Absolutely, yeah. Constipated, like, absolutely. But there was stuff going on that, that I just, you know, once again, you only know what you know. So you don't know to ask questions on something if you don't know about it. And, and so I. Two things happened. I got a kidney stone right out of college.

Oh, my goodness.

Yeah. Which was incredibly painful. And luckily that doctor, when I asked the question, how do I ensure this never happens again? Because it was, of course, that painful, I did not want to repeat this. And fortunately he said, well, what have you been drinking and eating? Had he not asked me that question, I never would have connected what I drank or ate to the issue. So that was the first time I connected food. And this is. I'm In, I'm like 21 at this point, but it's the first time I connected, oh, what you eat affects your health.

And, well, there was no messaging around that.

None, none, zero. Like, we live in a very, like, luxurious time where there's more awareness now. It doesn't mean we've got it all figured out in the current, you know, pre. The present time, but there's much more awareness now. Yeah. And, and, and there's much more ability to find out now. I mean, back in the day, remember, a lot of people. Gosh. I mean, a lot of people didn't get information around the world until someone selling Encyclopedia Britannica came to their, their house door.

So true.

Because there was no other way to learn. Remember, if you wanted to go on a road trip, you had to go to AAA to get a map.

So true.

Right. So, so there was, there was, you know, you really were limited in this information and what was possible. But that doctor helped a lot. But then the thing that I haven't really talked about as much is that I think I had an eating disorder. And, and I think that how my eating disorder played out was that I would, I would not think about Eating all day because I get, I get very involved in what I'm doing. I'm a bit of a workaholic. And I would not eat, but then I would go crazy because I'm so over hungry. And I would eat all this junk food or like chips or something like that. And I. There was this period a few years after the, the. The kidney stone and all that where I was at home and I was very aware. I'm like, oh, I'm not eating well. And I was like, I'm gonna make dinner for myself. And so I baked some chicken and I was all ready to. I had left it out of the oven to cool off a little bit. And I came to it and it was gone. And it triggered this anger and fear in me that was so intense. And basically what happened is my brother, who was older than me, came in and just ate it. And he and I had a little bit of a, you know, kind of competition thing going on. And so I got so angry at him and I chased him around the house. I was like, you effing did this and did that. And then he, he.

This is incidentally my boys every single day.

So. But here. And we're in our 20s when this happens, by the way. And so. So he ran into his room and he slammed the door. And I was determined to break down that door. And I punched it as hard as I could and I fractured my bone in my hand. And I did not. This was a very solid door back in the day. They were made a lot better. And it, it definitely came out from the hinges, but it did. I did not break it down. And so I hurt my body in this pursuit. And that was the moment that I realized, oh, this is not me just being angry at my brother. I have an issue with food. And so I then went and started getting some help with, you know, to a therapist and trying to process the emotions. But ultimately I started to realize, like, you know, that's an issue when you starve yourself all day. Even though I'm not, I'm not starving myself for weight. I was just, I was going all day and pushing myself, work wise, and then binge eating. And I think that we have to start looking at when we don't regulate our needs. That is a disorder to a degree. Whether it's workaholicness, whether you're doing it for weight, or thinking that you're gonna somehow evade those calories, I don't know. But we get these mindsets and I think sometimes we use either food in abundance or the lack thereof, to feel those emotions that we're not really acknowledging in our day more.

Yeah. I mean, we see it in all different kinds of pathology in that for some people, it's about control.

Absolutely.

How much control can I exert over this? For some people, it is about weight, but it backfires on them. Because when you starve yourself all day and you are ravenous, it's like the sumo wrestler diet, right? They don't eat all day, but then they eat, you know, 4,000 calories at night when your metabolism is already shut down and wants to go to bed. And so, you know, it just. It backfires on you.

Totally. Yeah. It's very important for everyone to. I mean, it took me many years to finally acknowledge this, but it's like calories in, calories out. It matters. Like, it's. It's. It's not even all the time. Like, I'm all for real food, but sometimes it doesn't even matter what. What calories it does. But sometimes people get almost so granular about that that they're like, well, I'll just eat all these calories because it's healthy fat, you know, versus. But it's like, well, but if you're not burning those calories, then it's now excess.

Yeah. So I do think that what you eat matters. Right. Like, 100 calories of pretzels is not equal to 100 calories of broccoli. That said, if you're going to eat 4,000 calories over the course of the day, even if it's, you know, things that we consider healthy, that's probably too much. Unless you're a. Unless you're an athlete.

An athlete, exactly.

Working out for eight hours.

Totally. And I'm more. I'm really even more referencing, too, that there is this illusion of health that. So back in the day, to your point, there wasn't much awareness of health. Then we went to, oh, well, health is zero fat. You know, so it's like grilled chicken breasts. It's steamed vegetables. It's a baked potato with nothing on it. Right. That was healthy.

Or six baked potatoes. Remember that? Who was that woman with the blonde spiky hair?

Suzy.

Someone that said, like, she was the queen of no fat. Do you remember who I'm talking about?

I remember a blonde something or other like that, but I just don't remember her name.

Yeah, yeah, but that no fat thing was a killer. I mean, when we were growing up, like, the worst thing that you could eat was an avocado.

Totally. Totally.

Like, people are like, no, that's full of fat. Don't eat that.

But now, so. But now what we have is, yeah, we have a little bit more awareness, but we still have this illusion of health. Like, so we. What we have now is like, oh, we'll follow, you know, and put. You put in whatever diet you want, whether it's keto, carnivore, paleo, whatever. We'll follow this diet. And then what's the first thing in retail that comes out that is specific about that diet? It's desserts. So then they're like, oh, well, I can have this brownie because it's keto, or the keto diet thing. It was organic. You know, I remember when I. Early on, when I was first becoming a chef and I had gone to school and I was cooking for private clients. I was in Trader Joe's. And this is early on. Trader Joe's had only just begun back then, because a lot of people don't remember this. Trader Joe's used to be an international store. It used to only have imported foods. And then eventually they became what they are now. But this was still at the early stages. And I remember standing in line and. And there were these kids with their mom, and they were like, mom, mom, can we have this chocolate? It says it's organic. That means it's healthy. So there. We've always had these kind of, like, throughout time, we've had these illusions of, like, what we think is healthy.

You are 100% correct. I mean, I remember back from my surgery days, I had. There was a. There was one of the OR techs, and she was so baffled when she got breast cancer. Her children were sick, and she was just baffled. She's like, I don't understand. Everything we eat is organic. And she would show me these bags of, like, gummy bears and Swedish fish, and she's like, but it's all organic. I was like, it's garbage.

Yeah.

And garbage with a really pretty bow.

On really is true. It's. You know, I've been. I've been a pro chef and in this field for over 20 years. And my messaging from. From the day after I got out of culinary school has been, I don't care what diet you think you should follow. I just want you to eat real food. And back in the day, that was very kind of, like, antiquate. Everyone was like, well, that's not exciting. That's not sexy. But now we're finally. Now 20 years later, it's finally catch, you know, now people are like, oh, yeah, we should just eat real food. But back in the day, my wife, who is a functional nutritionist, even when we met the brand was that we were pushing was like, just eat real food. Because hands down, if you just do that, like, when I first hit the scene as a private chef, I got notorious because women were losing their baby weight every time I cook for them. So I. The words started spreading. I got customers or clients very quickly, and everyone's thinking I was doing something magical. But I was like, I just made everything from scratch. So if they had a dressing, I made that from scratch. If they had, if there was a sauce, if there was. There was never anything packaged. I just made it from scratch. And their body responded. And that's one of the reasons why.

Because that's what we're meant to eat.

Exactly. And, and like, when you feed yourself.

Processed things, your body doesn't know what to do with it.

Exactly. And that's why I've even doubled down now in these last five years, where I'm now even getting a little bit more granular. And I'm saying, well, let's, let's really try to eat as ancestrally as possible. And what I mean by that is I really, when I talk about my ancestral food par pyramid, I'm focusing on three things because I'm ultimately, what I've learned in this, in my time in this business, and is that as humans, we need things that are easy and delicious. And if they're both, we will do them forever. But they have to be both. Can't be easy and disgusting, can't be hard and delicious. It's gotta be easy and delicious. And so when I even come up with like a food pyramid, it's got. I'm like, I'm focusing on simplicity. So this is my ancestral food pyramid. The top of the pyramid is just focus on flavors that are found in nature. Not natural flavors, but foods that are found in nature. Okay, then middle of the pyramid, focus on real nutrient dense food. So that's food that is an ingredient versus food that has ingredients. And then at the bottom of the pyramid, and this is something that we really don't talk very much about in this industry. And I think it needs to take more of a. About the main. I think it needs to be on the main stage, which is now just mindfully eat. Because here's the thing, when you bring mindfulness into eating, you now start to tap your innate knowledge of what you should be eating. Because we are the only species that looks to someone else to Tell us what to eat. And there's over 9 million species. So clearly we knew.

So interesting.

We knew at one point about that before. Yeah, we knew at one point. So the question is, I'm not suggesting we should all go become cave people again. It's not about going backwards. It's about how do we tap these resources that this body, this Homo sapien body that we're in was formed with. Because we have to remember the foods that we're talking about earlier on in this podcast. These are foods that we've only been eating for like the last 200 years. Like it's hasn't been that long. But the body we're in is over a hundred thousand years in development. So the question then becomes like, well, what was the. What were the resources this body came into being? Well, we know like anthropologists and archeologists will say, well, three things were eaten back in the day that enabled our brains to grow bigger, gave us more nutrients, but also did some other things. But these, these three things happen is we became pred. Predators and we were able to eat three things that we were not able to eat before we were predators. And that's blood, fat, and organs. So those three things in the animal are so nutrient dense that it gave us more nutrients than we had historically received. And so then when we had more nutrients, our brains got bigger, and then that. And then at the same time, we also got fire, which also opened things up. So we started to then develop language and tools. And now it's in. And now we're at the point where now we can talk on a podcast about, you know, everything under the sun. But if you think about it. Okay, now skip ahead a little bit. What, what was it that our palette. Like, how did our body communicate to us what it needed? Well, if you think about it, it's through our senses and through our tastes. So we had to eat the food to get the communication. We couldn't just swallow it in a pill. We couldn't combine foods that weren't naturally designed to be combined because that would confuse the body. So back in the back, ancestrally, flavor equal nutrition. So if something had flavor, that meant it was it. It had, you know, nutrients. Now our bodies are what we call the neuro lingual response was designed to do really tell us two, two pieces of information. Is the food I'm about to eat, is this going to kill me or is it going to nourish me? That was really it. So now you skip ahead. And now we're in a place where we're eating foods that say strawberry flavored. So strawberries ancestrally meant, because you would, if you found a berry in the wild, that meant, oh, this is flavorful, it's sweet, which equals nutrition. Now we're eating these products that have the flavor of a strawberry but have zero strawberries. So it has zero of that strawberry nutrition. So your body's now completely confused. So we have gone from, you know, our bodies have created a communication pathway that took tens of thousands of years to develop, to now 200 years of destroying that communication pathway and confusing the body and thus now forcing ourselves to look outside of our innate knowledge. So my, my tip on how to get back to that is to do those three things in those, in that pyramid I laid out. And one of them is that you gotta eat your food. You can't just swallow it in capsules. You need it to be that nutrient dense, real food, and you need to that be with food that has flavors found in nature.

I absolutely love that. I think that we have been so poisoned by, literally poisoned by the food industry. And there has been a complicit plan between all of these different food manufacturers to literally rob us of that instinct that you were talking about. Right. And that is where a lot of overeating comes from. And I think people don't realize that it's like the foods are synthesized to.

Have.

Textures and flavors and texture and flavor to tell the brain, like to stimulate the brain, saying, I want more, I want more, I want more. But part of the I want more is there's no nutrition there. There's no nourishment there.

Totally.

There's no nutrient there. So even though you're eating and that, that part of your brain is getting stimulated, the rest of your body is like, wait, I don't have what I need, so I need to eat more because I don't have what I need.

And yet our bodies are craving that need. They're craving it. And so when we do get it in our diets, like, I'll just use, let's say, for example, bone broth as an example. If you talk to someone, if anyone listening has ever had bone broth, what do you physically feel when you have bone broth? Well, I feel like almost like a calming in my body. Like almost like someone just put a very warm blanket over me and they've given me just this absolute comfort and safety. And I think that's very fascinating because in many ways, what ancestral foods do for us is they. When you have a food that's real found in nature and you eat it. Your body basically is getting told, oh, thank you. You just made me feel safe. Because this food is in tuned with what I desire and what this body was designed to eat. But when we give it these Franken foods, you're basically telling the body to be on alert and to be anxious and to be like over stimulated because those foods are a lot of times causing inflammation, they're causing chemical disruptions inside. They're, they're also sometimes keeping us from absorbing nutrients. So one thing basically creates chaos in the body and the other creates safety and comfort. And I really advise people to start kind of assessing when they go to choose what food they're going to allow into their diet. Because that is the thing we, we, yes, there's Franken foods that are designed to confuse us and to manipulate our minds, but we still have choice. We still have choice. And there are tips you can do to make sure you don't even go down that path. And I'll share three of them right now. One is.

Love to hear them.

One is if there is a food that is not going to produce the desired outcome you have. So notice I'm not focusing on diet, I'm focusing on what is your desired outcome. If there is a food that is not going to support that, do not bring it into your house. Make it hard to get, because if it's in the house, we will find a reason and a way to eat it. So set very clear boundaries of what is acceptable and what desired outcome you or your family have and only bring in food that fits that desired outcome. Two, meal planning. When you meal plan, you don't write on there, buy Oreos because they're on sale, right? You don't do that in a meal plan. What you do is you figure out what you're going to eat that week. You build it around your work schedule, not your idea of what you want to eat. So like let's say if you have an all day and you're working all day and you're like, gosh, I'm only going to have 20 minutes to eat or to make dinner and eat well, then that's a slow cooker day. That's one of those days, or a pressure cooker, you throw everything in the morning, set it, the timer and then walk away so it's ready for you when you're done. So you build the meal plan around your schedule, not the meal plan around your appetite. And then that meal plan, not only does that help control what ingredients you bring in, but now it's set for your week, for the busyness or lack of busyness to your week. You're being mindful about what did we choose to eat this week based on our schedule? And then the third thing I would say is really try your best to just bring in that mindfulness. Because I'm not here to say never have ice cream or never do this. I'm just saying let's set boundaries around it. Let's make it hard to get. But then when you do have it, just. Just promise me you'll sit, you'll breathe, you'll really, like, be mindful as you eat it. And you're not. Try it. Yeah, savor it. Be mindful. Like, don't beat yourself up about it. Like, choose it. Really choose it and enjoy it. But also notice how does my body feel after it. Because eventually what's going to happen is if you mindfully eat, you're eventually going to go, you know, you know what? I felt like crap after I ate X. And you're going to do it enough where you're going to one day, maybe in your 50s, you're going to go, like, you know what? I'm done feeling like crap. I'm just done. And you're going to realize, you know, I've already eaten every cookie there ever could be. Like, no one can now convince me that there is a cookie that's going to be amazing. Because I already. I've already had amazing cookies. Cookies. I know now that when I eat that cookie, I don't feel good. So the feeling of how you feel is going to start to become your why. Of, like, you know, I don't do these things because I want to live long or I want to be there for my kids, or I want to grow old and see them have their kids, or I just want to stop feeling like crap. Right. But we have to find our why. And the only way to find your why is to, yes, to have contrast, but also to be mindful about it and see how it feels in your body when you do it.

Yeah. I mean, it's actually why I stopped drinking.

A lot of people stopped drinking for that reason.

Yeah. And, I mean, it's not that I certainly, like, enjoyed it. And, you know, I drank for probably 20 years of my adult life, maybe even 30, but I stopped because I just didn't like how I felt the next day. And I needed to stop. I knew I needed to stop. And I wasn't even drinking that much. I mean, I was drinking maybe one or two cocktails a week on the weekend if we would go out to dinner. So it wasn't a daily thing for me, and it wasn't an excess thing for me. But, you know, when I put people on hormone replacement, I tell them that they're not allowed to drink because your liver can't do both things.

Interesting. Right?

But so when I started hormone replacement, I was really at a crossroads with myself because I. What's good for the goose is good for the gander. Right?

Right.

So. But I. I actually dialed into that exact place that you're talking about and said, like, what am I even doing it for anyway? Like, yes, the first five minutes of a social situation are a little awkward if you don't have a cocktail in your hand, but who cares? And you feel like shit the next day.

Yep. Did you have like an aura ring or anything that was kind of confirming how you felt the next day as.

This call started off today, You. You. You see that I struggle with technology, so I've had three oura rings that never consistently communicate with my phone. So there's that. I just. I struggle with wearables and all of that kind of thing, so I couldn't let the tech dictate it for me, unfortunately, because my tech just doesn't seem to work that well. I have a new tech device that I'm wearing right now. Hopefully this will be kinder to me in my relationship with technology, but I'm wearing the Norocalm right now.

I do offer, though, that. That is one that, you know, modern times has provided, is we have these ways of measuring these things that we didn't have back in the day. And.

Yeah.

And in having.

You can. You can have evidence of how much.

Sometimes your body doesn't like it. It helps people. So it's not so subjective. It's like, oh, yeah, you see that you. You're lower with your aura ring when you drink. And it could even be just half a glass or even a glass. It. Yeah. You don't have to get.

It doesn't have to be much.

No. And so I think having these really does help a lot. Whether it's, you know, aura rings or just, you know, apps that are kind of tracking your sleep or anything that can just like even CGMs, you know, ghost monitors.

Another thing I can't seem to get to work. But. But I agree. I think that they are amazing and I think that they provide an incredible amount of meaningful information.

Exactly. And it's not something you have to do forever. I'm just suggesting, like, Even just doing a CGM for, you know, a month, two weeks on to, and then the, you know, four weeks total.

Yeah, I think everyone should wear one for two months.

I learned a lot.

Even, Even healthy people, they. You learn a lot.

You learn a lot. You learn like, first of all, you learn like that sometimes you are eating even though your body doesn't need the food. And then you're also learning what, how each food affects you. And of course, there's, you know, gray areas and there's things that are not like, because, because you might think, oh, this food affected me. But then you also went for a walk afterwards. Well, that's going to always affect your glucose as well, is just exercise, for example. So, yeah, you do have to be mindful of things. It's. I wouldn't just go get one just based on this call unless you have someone kind of advising you or supporting you with it. But there's lots of services that will do that. But it's been, it's just so helpful to have these kind of markers. And then once you see you have proof, like, then, now you can make an informed decision and you're just like, okay, I'm done.

Yeah. And a CGM is about more than just food and what you eat because it also tells you, like, is that exercise working for you or not? And. And what's happening when you slee bend. So I, I think it's invaluable information. So I want to get a little bit of, like, gossipy dirt, and then I want to move on to what you're doing with your life now. But you're a celebrity chef for years. Any unusual requests, stories that you would like to share? Because I always like to hear this. I don't have time to read the rags, so I want to. I want to hear, well, some insider stuff.

I will say this. I. I did have to sign some NDAs, and while they're probably no longer in effect, I still just honor, you know, anyone I worked with, I still honor their privacy. But this, this doesn't reveal anything about the person, but it reveals a little bit about the culture. When I. So Tom Cruise is one of the people I used to cook for, and I was cooking for him when he was in the movie Valkyrie. I cooked for him for about two years, but I was over in Germany when he was in Valkyrie, and I, we were there about four months. And it was really fascinating because as I worked with him, I would see all the tabloids would be always throwing things out, saying this or that, and I'll tell you right now, in my two years of working with him, I, I 99 of what they said in the tabloids was not correct at all. And then it would be that one issue where it came out and you're like, oh, someone talked. Like it would be, you know what I mean? Like, but I'm telling you literally, like let's say 100 issues, 99 of them completely false. And then maybe there'd be one. Maybe. At the time, though, I remember there was this one came out that talked about life with his daughter and it was very clear. Someone from the inner circle talked. I don't know who, but, but it was like, oh, they, they, they knew details that were privy to those of us that were in the household. Yeah, but every, every other issue, complete lies. Like, not true at all. And of course, I don't know what it's like now, but it's just, it was just fascinating to be working around someone that had to be so aware of the public. You know, like a lot of these celebrities, they have dressers that keep track of like what outfit they wore on what day. Because if they're seen in that outfit and there's a snapshot taken, they want to make sure that they now never use that outfit again. Because if there's another snapshot, it will look like they wore the outfit, you know, the same the next day.

Even though even the men.

Oh, men and women. Yep. If they're.

Wow.

If they're high, like A listers. Yeah. They're very aware they are their brand. Right. And they are meticulous about how their brand is perceived and, and, and how it's covered. It's very.

I need that. I feel like I'm wearing the same pink dress in every picture.

You would never make it as an A list. No, I'm kidding. You're an A lister in my mind.

Get there one day.

You're an A lister.

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Yeah, my closet does look like Barbie.

And then I'll just. I did have. I, I won't say who, but there I did a lot of times.

Before you move off of Tom Cruise, I have to say I picture him as like the quintessential professional who is like working out and eating so, so, so clean because he like sees that as his job. Did I get that right?

Yeah, no, I think that's very true with any of those really top, top epsilon actors. I. He's still human now. I mean, he Definitely would have days where he would go out and indulge. I mean, just like anyone, you know, I mean he, he, he and I, I, I, I really liked him. I really liked him. I didn't have huge amounts of time with him, but we definitely in two years I would, you know, we would have conversations, little conversations here and there, but with all the different people I've worked with, there's just sometimes as a chef when I, so whenever I would work with a client, one of the first things I would try to do is really kind of get to understand what motivates them food wise is so a lot of the questions I would initially ask are like, you know, when you're having a hard day, what kind of foods do you gravitate towards? So I, because I want to know what are the textures, what are the flavors that really like tap that kind of inner child for you and that make you feel safe. And then I would try to, once I identify those, I would try to build the healthy food around those textures and flavors so then that way the pe, the clients would not feel deprived or they would, and they would feel comforted by these new foods. And I felt on a, in a weird way, I felt so connected to him. Like, I felt like I understood him on such a deep level, food wise. I, I don't know why I never felt it with any other customer or any other client that I worked with, but I felt very intimately like I got him. I just felt like I really got him and he could have a completely. He may not feel that, but I felt that way. And, and so I really enjoyed working for him. That due to that, not that it was easy, it was very hard because he, you know, he, he's a busy guy and, and there's a lot of moving pieces and you have to be really on top of the job to, to maintain the job. And, and I'm happy to say that, you know, I was the one that chose to leave. They, they did offer me to stay longer, but I was just ready my focus at the time. While I really loved working with him. And it's a big stroke to the ego. It kind of goes back to even that 911 experience, like where I af while I was working for him. I kept feeling like I wasn't doing what I was here to do, which was to help the many people, not.

Just, yeah, it wasn't a big enough mission.

Yeah, it really wasn't. And it, and it's kind of my curse, I gotta say. It's a little bit of a curse because, you know, I've had some really good paying, really solid jobs. I mean, had I just stayed with him, I probably would have. It would have been a very safe and secure job to a degree. But yet I chose the harder path of, like, I'm gonna leave and I'm gonna start this meal delivery service so that I can cook this way, but for every. As many people as I can.

Yeah.

And. And then that was its own really hard, challenging place to be. But, yeah, but it really is. At this point in my life, it is about, like, am I on mission? Like, am I. Am I doing what I'm here to do?

What's the strangest request you got?

Well, it's funny, I mean, a lot of the people. Because I would bring. I would bring to the table. Like, I had some nutritional background, you know, at the school I went to, I studied some nutrition, and then I took a nutritional course afterwards. But I was very kind of clear, like, this is the type of chef I am. I wasn't trying to be different than what I was. I wasn't like, oh, I'll cook you foie gras. And it's like, I didn't know how to cook foie gras. I'm like, I cook this real food base, but very healthy, but clean and flavorful way. And so a lot of times when I would come in, I. I would kind of. They would defer to me. So a lot of times they weren't actually asking me to do much except just do what I do. I did have. So what I had more so than request was more about circumstances. I had one time I was delivering to a client, and he had just been to the rainforest, and I think he had done some plant medicine. I don't know, but he'd done some shamanic work. And he was informed during the shamanic work that he was a shaman. And so I went to deliver the food and. And I walked in and he. And he basically assisted. He. He grabbed the assistant and I. And he said, you know, sit on the couch. Because the shaman had come back with him. He's like, we're gonna bless you guys. And I was like, huh, all right, I'm just delivering your food. He's like, are you open to it? I was like, yeah, yeah, let's do it. So all of a sudden, my food. The food delivery became like, me getting blessed by a shaman and this actor. And. And so it's just. I would just have these really funny, you know, fun, but fun stories and funny Circumstances. Yeah, it was really, it was really fun. It's a definite stroke to the ego. You know, when you, when you work for someone like Tom Cruise, everyone just assumes you must be amazing. So I didn't ever have to prove myself to anyone. So that was kind of cool.

Yeah. But why do you think it's so hard for people to eat healthy and to embrace that? Why do you think people perceive it as so hard?

I think if I had the true answer to that question, I, I would, you know, have solved life's biggest riddle. I think human nature is, is hard to figure out. I, I think that we are the minute we think we understand human nature is the minute someone, you know, veers and, and does something that's out of the ordinary. I do think though, that what is going on is a disconnection. And so I'll use an example of, let's say someone who's plant based. So, and it could be any diet. I'm just picking plant based. You, you, you choose the diet. And we believe that this is the diet that's right for us. We think this is, you know, whatever influence we had to come to this conclusion, but we believe very firmly this is the diet. And then we start to follow that path. Well, with, in that relationship of, you know, what we think and what in, in our body, there is one person in that relationship that will never lie to us, that will never steer us the wrong direction, and that is always communicating to us purely. And this is where I think the disconnect is coming from. Is, is that person in our lives is our body. So no matter what our head tells us of what diet we should follow, you can follow any diet and your body will reveal to you whether that diet is working or not. You'll either, if it's not working, you'll get, you know, you'll, you'll get, you could get fat, you could have, you could have inflammation, you could have skin issues, you could have foggy brain, you could have hair falling. I mean, you name the chronic disease or illness or, or daily issue and that's your body revealing to you, hey, what you did last night or what you're doing on an ongoing basis is not working. Yeah, but the disconnect is we're not listening. So we have literally the purest crystal ball that will reveal all the truth we need. And we're not listening. We're still going back to, but I'm plant based and I don't want to hurt an animal. It's like, well, here's the Thing. Let's dig even deeper into that. So do you know the story about the lemmings? Like, what do you know about lemmings?

I don't know.

Okay. Have you ever heard like, someone who's a lemming, they. Because basically there, there was this documentary where these, these, these animals called lemmings where if, if one of them, they were all kind of following each other. So when you're a lemming, you. It's like you're following someone without thinking for yourself. Because basically what happened is they would. They. They followed the one in front of them and they all just went off a cliff.

Oh, yeah.

So when we, when we call someone a lemming, it's like you're not thinking for yourself. You're just fault. You're just being a follower. Right? Yeah. Well, what's so interesting is that usually a lot of people know that they, they know about what a lemming is because it's something that's been ingrained in not only our lexicon, but like some of us even have seen the documentaries where we saw the lemmings going off the cliff. Well, that is actually a far. A. A false narrative because lemmings actually don't do that. What happened was the documentary, I think it was by Disney that showcased lemmings going off a cliff is they took the lemmings out of their natural habitat and put them in a habitat they weren't familiar with and that's why they went off the cliff. So this whole idea of like, oh, lemmings equals you're being a follower. That's now part of our lexicon is completely inaccurate. So then you take that idea of like, well, what else is inaccurate in our lives? What else do we think we understand that we don't? So let's just touch base about plant based. Well, so an argument a lot of times for plant based is people think, well, I don't want to cause any harm to animals, so that's why I'm eating the vegetables. Well, I talk to the farmers, I talk to both ranchers who are. Who slaughtering animals. And I talk to the ones that just plow fields. And the face on the ones that plow fields are horrendous. When you ask them, does anything die when you plow this soy field or this corn field? Does any like, are you actually killing anything? And they, and their faces look like they just watched the scariest, you know, movie in the world. And they're like, yeah, there's dough hiding in these fields, there's rabbits, there's ground mice, there's all these insects, there's all these, these things, these organisms, they just get slaughtered and their blades get covered in blood as they're plowing these fields. And so I'm like, oh well, most people don't know that. They think that nothing's getting killed. So that's why they're holding this belief. But the reality is that for us to live and for any organism to live, something has to die. But yet we're living that we're creating this truth in our head. Like, oh no, but this diet is healthier or this diet means nothing, you know, gets killed or whatever we excuse, we make or we should all be eating carnivore, you know, whatever it is. But we're creating this illusion that justifies our habit. And that's what's very, that is ultimately what we're, I think we're doing is we're picking something that works for us and then we're justifying, we're finding the reasons to justify it so that it makes sense towards those that we communicate or perceive us and why we do the things we do. But I think isn't that true of everything?

But don't we, don't we walk through life justifying the habit?

Right. It's all about perception. And so it's really ego based, I think a lot of times. And I think that's also why we don't truly listen to our body because if we did, we'd have to be honest with ourselves and be like, oh, this thing isn't working. And the reality is is you don't really know what would work because we're confused. So, you know, then it's about now I have to ask for help. And a lot of people struggle with that. A lot of people have issues actually asking for help. Yeah, one of the best things we could do.

But I, I do think that, you know, this culture of convenience was very much created. Oh yeah, right. And there is messaging around the fact that your time is more important spent somewhere else and you shouldn't be spending it shopping and preparing food and in the kitchen. And this is especially important messaging for. And listen, I'm not about traditional gender roles. Like I don't care. I do think that someone needs to be in the kitchen because I think it's nearly impossible to be healthy unless you are shopping for your own food, cooking your own food. Like I just do.

You eat out less and less to be honest with you. But you're, you're dead on. Like there is no way I will be even firmer with it. There is absolutely no way you can be healthy eating out. And here's why. Any. Everything outside of your kitchen is a business. And those businesses have bottom lines. They have desires to make money and to survive, just like you do. And so they will cut corners that you will probably not cut in your own kitchen, if you know better.

So definitely not cut in your own kitchen.

Yeah, we don't want you to, but some people sometimes don't know better than to, you know, they're just using those canola oils or those, those soy oils or cottonseed oils. Like, they're just using them, not knowing that those actually aren't very good for you. So, so just. You just have to know that whether it's something you're buying at the grocery store that's prepackaged, anything at the restaurant, they have bottom lines. They are cutting corners, guaranteed. And the restaurants that are not, most of us probably, like 99.9% of us probably couldn't afford to eat there every single meal. There's that 0.1% that could. But I guarantee they're not even doing that because it's just. It's. It's. It's an impossible mission to think that you're gonna, A, afford a place that could cook like that 24 7, and B, want to do that because we're also. While we are creatures of habit, we also do like variety. And so, you know, I just. I think that the only way to truly get control of your health is you gotta cook in your own kitchen. Yeah. So here's. So let's just touch base. Well, why. Why wouldn't you cook in your own kitchen? I get it. Like, we have. We put this pressure on ourselves to think like, well, because I eat, I have to love to cook. It's like, no, just like, I don't love to clean my house doesn't, you know, doesn't mean I should become, you know, a house cleaner. It's like, you don't need to do. Like, we live in a. In a beautiful society here in America where you don't have to do the things you don't want to do, particularly the things that you can afford to pay someone else to do. And so we don't need to put pressure on ourselves to do these things. We just need to be aligned with. Well, how can I make it more enjoyable? So let's just say you are someone who can't afford a private chef who wants to cook from home. I would focus on how do I Make this activity more enjoyable. Well, first of all, I would play the pod. You know, play a podcast or music that you really love that inspires you, that makes you move your body, that just makes you feel happy. I would make sure that you're putting food in your kitchen that inspires you. You know, that's easy. Like, that you're not trying to do complicated recipes, that you're just, instead of even focusing on recipes, you're just focusing on formulas like, okay, this food needs a protein, it needs a fat, and it needs, if, if you eat this way, a vegetable. Right. And so I can just pick them accordingly. Like if it's Asian, I would pick bok choy, I'd pick coconut oil, and I'd pick chicken. If it's French, you know, maybe it's, you know, seafood, you know, and it's, and it's ghee or butter. And then it's like broccoli or. You know what I mean? Like, just pick them accordingly. But you don't have to worry about following a recipe. Yeah, right. You just, just follow the formula. And then lastly, choose good people to share it with. Because we, we, we forget about the people we eat with. But it's everything we are ancestrally, we are community based organisms. Okay. When we isolate ourselves, that's the least human thing you could do, is isolate yourself. Think about it ancestrally. If you were isolated, you died. The cultures that survived were the ones that were in community. So we are designed to flourish in community. So surround yourself with people that make you happy, and if they don't make you happy, choose different people.

Beautiful. Tell me about your mission.

Well, my mission is now to really help people get whole animal into their diet. That's become my very clear mission because. And it goes back to. Well, my, my, my ultimate mission is to help people be healthy. And I believe that getting the whole animal in our diet is healthier than the way we're currently eating, which is mostly just muscle meat and, or the vegetables and then the carbohydrate, you know, the, the potatoes or the starches, those kind of things. I believe that we can get much more of our nutrients from by eating the whole animal. And they will be more, not only more fulfilling, but they will ultimately curb those chronic illnesses we were talking about earlier. Because ultimately it's, it's close to 94, 95% of Americans are nutrient deficient, but.

We'Re not calorie deficient, which is a frightening statistic.

Yeah, it's.

Well, but that's a huge disconnect. Right. So because we're not calorie deficient, we have been trained to think that if we've eaten enough, we're nourished.

And it's just not true.

Right.

It's a, it's, it you really have to look at that is this, that is an issue of, it's not how much reading, it's the foods we're choosing to eat. So we have to make different choices. And so what I, my mission is to help you with that choice. And so I believe, as I mentioned earlier, you know, the blood, the organs and the fat were three things that help to form this body. I believe that the organ meats of the animal are things that we're not eating or the whole animal because eventually we're going to even have whole sardine come out. You know, so like I'm not just about beef. I'm about how do I get us to eat those nutrient parts of the animal. But I get it, I'm going back to a lot of things I already said is like, I get it, we're human and we need things that are easy and delicious. So what I conceived, and it's the first of its kind, was a seasoning blend made with grass fed and grass finished beef organ meats. So you're getting the nutrition from the organ meats, but none of that organ flavor. I've made it taste good, I've made it as easy to apply as seasoning your food and I've removed the hindrances. Like you don't have to touch, you know, textures that you don't, you know, gravitate towards. You don't have to stomach flavors that don't appeal to you and you don't have to know how to cook them. You just season your food. You could put it on popcorn, you could put it on pizza. Like I'm basically saying, like, look, I'm not telling you to change your diet, eat your diet, but sprinkle this on instead of Lowry's or whatever, Old Bay or whatever, whatever it is you're using. And now you've increased your nutrient, your micronutrients incredibly. And if you use it every time, so we call it microdosing plus frequent use cumulative effect. So as long as you're doing it each meal daily, it's a cumulative effect and you do see results. We have had amazing testimonies of people's lives being changed, particularly kids because they don't, they can't take supplements and capsules, they can't do all that stuff. And it's really hard to get these foods into them. But pluck is what it is. It's called pluck. And kids will eat it and they love it. And in fact, we get reports that when kids start to eat it, they get that visceral response that I talked about with bone broth where you, like, feel like you're being, you know, comforted and safe. Well, they feel that way. And then when they run out of the pluck, they have tantrums. So it clearly it's not just that it's good. It's like, no, no. Their body is saying, I want this and I need this. Give me more. And so I'm, I'm, I'm really at this point just trying to support people and getting these whole species into their diet. Like I mentioned, we're going to eventually, eventually have poultry lines. We're going to have a whole sardine line, we're going to have bison. Like, we, I have this idea that we'll just have this line of seasonings that are all supporting all these other species, but getting them in your diet really easily and deliciously. And I, and I hope that, you know, it will not only help to solve this nutrient deficiency issue, but we'll start to get people feeling better in their body. And I really believe, believe that once we feel better in our body, we start treating people differently because we treat people how we feel. So if you feel good, you treat people well. And now we have a whole different society. And I truly believe getting these ancestral foods in your diet can make the world a better place to live.

Yeah.

How?

I, I'm surprised that just the seasoning is enough to get clinical benefit, but you're saying that it's, it, it doesn't take much.

Think about the things in your life. You've been on this journey for a while. Think about the things that have actually moved the mark for you. That could be health wise, that could be relationship wise. It's not the thing. It's not the, the one. Like, let's just throw anything out. Like, so, okay, it's, let's just pick a relationship. That one trip, you went to Bermuda, whatever, and you had a whirlwind weekend with your, your husband or your lover or whoever it is, and now everything's going to be fantastic for the rest of my life. It's like, no, that was a weekend. And you might have had a few days or even a week of joy and then you're right back to the realities. Or let's pick a health food. Like, maybe you did have one day where, oh, I ate liver and onions and I did it. I did it. It was so good. Great. How. How often have you done that? No, I did it once, and I did it once in 1989, and it was fantastic. I felt so good for a week. Right. So it's like we live this reality where we think it's the choice we're making, but I say it's actually how often we make that choice. So I'm looking for what is the thing that will allow you to make that choice daily. And I believe due to human nature, it's got to be a small amount. If we had to brush our teeth two hours a day instead of two minutes a day, we would have some funky teeth out there. Yeah, right. Human nature needs things in small amounts. When we get them in too big of amounts, we do not sustain it. We burn out. So I'm all about little things done daily. Cumulative effect. And it works. It absolutely works.

Yeah. Any tips that you want to leave people with, like, what are the big pitfalls in the kitchen?

Oh, well, I think. I think the biggest is I. I mentioned. But it's worth re mentioning is, is the stress we put on ourselves. We're all so hard on ourselves. You know, we. We beat ourselves up for not eating this or eating that or not knowing how to do this and outsourcing that. And it's like, you know, one of the best things we could do is start to stop putting so much stress on ourselves and start creating an environment that is less stressful. We. We don't talk about this very often, but I used to. I used to kind of tell this to people. I would mean getting the best food in the world, highest quality, most expensive, which are not always the same thing. But still, like, I could. I could make you the most amazing meal, but if your body's not digesting it properly or assimilating those vitamins and nutrients, it will be a waste. And we forget that when we're in a stress state. We don't digest things well. We don't assimilate them well. So I always say that there's two things that really have to go hand in hand with health, and that's getting good sleep and lowering the stress in your life. And how you do that is up to you. But I think they're really integral because I know, like, for example, when I don't sleep enough, I make poor choices. Like, I. I def. Like, I just immediately default to crappy food because I'm just. I can't make the right choice. And then I also know when I'm stressed out, my digestion gets all messed up. So I think right away those are two things you can, everyone can start putting into habit. And then, you know, here's another one that is a surprising mover. But I'll tell you a story. So there used to be this, I think he was 17 at the time. There was a 17 year old I met in this men's group called the Mankind Project, which is a, is a nonprofit. I highly recommend anyone look it, but it's, it's a nonprofit to help men become better men. And he was a 17 year old and he had, had, he was considered ADHD. He smoked and he had horrible acne and, and just couldn't sit still. And he had never held down a job and he was still living with his parents and we became friends and then I, I brought him into my, the meal delivery service that I had. So he started washing dishes and I didn't push anything on him. And at one point, he's watching us cook our food and he, he, he was motivated to say, hey, James, how do I, how do I get healthier? Like, like, do you think me eating differently would help, you know, this other stuff? And I said, absolutely. He said, well, what should I do first? I said, well, I notice you drink Coca Cola a lot. Like, I kind of, I'm like, do you ever have water with you? And he's like, no. I said, okay, let's start there. I said, for every Coke you have, I want you to have at least two glasses of water. Or alternatively, I just want you to drink water. Just, just cut everything else out. Just drink water. Well, that one tip, you know, Skip ahead now 15 years or something like that. Maybe 10. He now is fit. He goes to a gym regularly. He's, he's now in a, in a loving relationship. He's had multiple jobs since then and he actually now cares about his body. He doesn't smoke. He stopped smoking after a year of doing that. Actually, I think it was less than that a few months. But my point is, is that that one change of just drinking more water and less of the other stuff completely put him on the path of wanting to get healthier and healthier and healthier to the point where he is now. And he, he, he has muscles like, he, he just, he looks like a healthy guy.

Yeah. Yeah. Amazing. And I can't have like a real chef on without getting some tips up. What are the things that you think help to make food delicious? That People can start to incorporate in their everyday cooking to. To be able to start to value real food, because that's ultimately what we need to do. And I do think that when you. When you eliminate the processed food from your diet and start to eat real food, that. That pull towards those fake things and fake flavors, it goes away. And. And I mean, to me, I think they're disgusting. But what. What are the things that you think make food taste so delicious? Real food?

I love this question. Okay, here's a couple little tips. One is, this is just a side tip before I go into your specific question is if you want people to think you're an amazing chef. So let's just say you're having people come over to your house, you're gonna take dinner party, and you just. You want every time someone to walk through that door, you want them to say, oh, that smells good. You just have to do one thing. You have to saute onions on the stovetop. That's all you got to do. Saute some onions, keep them low. Let that smell of those. Those caramelized onions start to permeate the whole house. And I guarantee as people walk through the door, they'll be like, what are you cooking? That smells delicious. You can do it with a little garlic as well. Like, so onions and garlic, they're aromatics, and they just really do light up the whole room. So that's one little thing. But basically, what you want to do when you're thinking about food, there's a couple things is you. I look at food as music, and so I think of, like, there's high tones, there's low tones, and a high tone is something acidic. So usually what's happening is that most food is kind of bland. It's kind of staying in that mid range, or it's even low. Low range, because they've. They've added, like, let's say, things like creams or butters, which are very low range. Like, think of heavier foods. It's kind of like ground, deeper voice kind of thing, right? So what. What happens is that they're missing the high note. And so if you just simply put, like, lemon zest or even a little bit of lemon juice in most of your dressings or sauces or sprinkled on your food, and you will brighten them, and you will actually bring out flavor. So what you want to think about is, like, so in our palate, we have salty, sweet, bitter, sour. They're all unique flavors. And the fifth is umami. So pluck is very high in umami, the organ meats are naturally umami. So we get the same effect with pluck. When you sprinkle pluck on your food, it brightens the food. It makes it all taste better. We get that compliment all the time. Like, all I did differently this time was I use pluck. And that night, my. My family wanted seconds. They kept complimenting me on the food, and I'm like, that's umami. It's a unique flavor. When you're cooking a food that's lacking one of those five flavors, just increase one of them to brighten the food and have the other flavors start to pop. And whether that's umami or a little, like, sour from the. From the. From the lemon juice, that works really well. And then I would probably offer. There's one other thing that I didn't discuss yet in this podcast, which I really do think a lot of people don't put a lot of value on, but it really does make a difference is presentation. A lot of people, just because they think, oh, I'm not a cook, I'm not a chef, they just plop the food on the. On the t. On the plate or whatever, or the bowl, whatever it is. And they also don't think about color. And it's. So it's just this kind of brown mushroom or whatever. A lot of times, if it's overcooked meat, it's just brown, right? But when you start looking, when you do eat out, start looking how they present the food to you, and you'll notice there's little accents. There might be a little green here. There might be a little red there. There might be a little, like, zest of something that's kind of creating height. Like, whether it's onions or shallots or something that's creating height. But those little things, like the color pops or creating height really do make the food more appealing. And it makes you crave it more, makes you want to eat it more. We have to remember, just like, we are attracted to people, like, so we use our eyes to find our mate, right? We do the same with food. So our senses, smell, taste, even auditory. With food, like when something cracks or pop or let's say you're at a shellfish or what is it like a fish bake? And you see people, like, you hear them cracking that lobster, that crab.

There's a clam bake.

Yeah. Clam bake. Thank you. Like, there's something about it that's just like, ooh, ah. Oh. And it just.

It's don't you live in New England. How can.

How.

Why do I have to tell you this?

Well, I only moved here, like, a year and a half ago. I'm a California kid, you know.

Yeah.

So we didn't do clam bakes over there at all. But. Yeah, but so the point is, is, like, sounds, visuals, they really do help. And so even adding little things, like a little bit of pars, chopped parsley on food, like the bright green makes it pop. A little bit of. Of. Of a pepper, whether it's sweet or hot. The red also makes things pop. So just don't discredit that and really think of height. Like, really explore how do I make something tall and high versus just flat and low. And you'll see those little tips will make huge difference no matter what skilled level of chef you are.

Yeah, I love that. What are some of your kitchen staples?

Definitely a blender. I was just thinking about this today. A blender is one I think is a necessity. And then I would say, like, a food processor. The brand I use is, like, Cuisinart. I think those are all that. That's another one. And then after that is simply a chef's. Chef's knife. A very sharp chef's knife. The sharper the knife, the better, because a dull knife is not only dangerous, but it. You don't get a very good cut of anything. Like, sharp knives are actually safer. And then I would say, like, pots. Like, good pots, pans. But that's really it. I don't. I'm not a big gadget guy. I think that most people have way too many gadgets in their kitchen, and if anything, it's overwhelming. I would rather have less stuff on my countertop. And so this goes back to that environment. Like, create the environment that inspires you. If you're someone who gets more inspired by. By basically seeing hardly anything in the kitchen, like the counters are clear, then you should not have a lot of gadgets or if. Or either that or a big house to hide them all. But, like, you basically want to create a very clean and kind of sparse kitchen so that it inspires you. Maybe you have some hanging herbs or something like that, maybe some fresh fruit like the lemons or the limes out there on the table. But whatever it is, you're picking things not only for the. What you use, so the functionality, but you're also picking them for aesthetics. And you don't want to underestimate that, because having a clean kitchen really does inspire cooking.

Yeah, I agree. What are some of the staple Ingredients that you always have in your kitchen. Like, what. What. What is the. What are the things that your kitchen can't live and function without?

Such a good question. So cultured vegetables is one for us. I am a big fan.

Again, cultured vegetables.

Cultured vegetables. Or like, sauerkraut.

Oh, okay.

Wow. But real sauerkraut. So not, like vinegared, but, like, you know, where it's using. It's fermented. Fermented vegetables. Because one of the things is, like, there's a lot of talk right now of, like, how certain vegetables are. Are causing harm. You know, oxalates through oxalates and whatnot. And I do believe that that can be true. But there is a way to kind of neutralize these things and to actually enhance them, and that's through fermentation. So I'm a big fan of. If you're gonna have vegetables, like cultured vegetables, it. It doesn't go bad. You can keep it in your refrigerator forever for as long as you need. And. And you'll just always have a vegetable at hand that's gonna support digestion. Like, for example, if you're having, like. Like, I don't know when this comes out, but if it comes out before July, that's big barbecue time. Well, what's happening when people barbecue? Well, they're really actually burning the outside of the meat. That's why when it gets black, that's carcinogenic, and that's not very good for us. It might taste delicious, but it's not good for us. Well, one of the ways you can help to offset the carcinogenic effects is to eat cultured vegetables. So make sure you're eating some sauerkraut with that brisk. That burnt brisket or whatever it is, you know, and. And that. That would be my advice for there. And then I would say the other things are. I do love to have some fresh herbs. I love. There's a sauce that I really love called chimichurri, which is basically you take. You take parsley, you take even a little bit of oregano, but you take a little bit of olive oil, and you can do lemon zest or lemon juice, and then a little vinegar, white vinegar, and you just blend it all with some salt and pepper. You can even add some shallots or green onions. But it's basically an herb sauce. It's a Latin American herb sauce, and it's one of my favorite sauces. And so I love having that parsley in hand to be able to make it. But also I use the parsley to accentuate the food as well. And then I would say, like, there's a couple of other things. Like I don't have a lot in my pantry that I use because I, I don't use. Use a lot of grains. I don't use a lot of beans. My kids do eat some of that stuff, but I don't personally. So I'm just thinking of things I would personally have. I do like to have some kind of fresh food or fruit around. I particularly when the weather starts to get hot like this. So I try to buy stuff that's locally in season. I try to also buy it organic because then at least, you know, it's been. There's no glyphosate on it or they're not supposed to be putting glyphosate. So it's once again that perceived health. You can only do what you can do. But then I like to have, I like to have lemons in, in the refrigerator because then I can use them to accentuate the, the taste. And I would say a really good olive oil, a good coconut oil. And I like ghee. I cook with ghee a lot. I think ghee is, ghee is clarified butter. It's been around for years. It's extremely therapeutic. And it's, it has a great smoke point because there's no dairy fat in it there. Sorry, no dairy. It's just the butter fat. And so I'm a big fan of ghee. And then I have good butter as well. But I would. Honestly, that's kind of it. Like, I do use tamari. Sometimes I use coconut aminos, but I, I keep it pretty simple. And then you, you know, I, I pick some vinegars that I like. So balsamic vinegar. Now, balsamic vinegar, in most of these vinegars you do have. Careful, you got to read the labels. And that's true with even your seasonings. They hide things. There's things in foods that you wouldn't think like you would if you were buying balsamic vinegar. You'd be like, well, this is not going to have any additional sugar. But a lot of them do. A lot of them.

A lot of them do. Especially if you're. If it says like glaze or something like that, you just have to read the label. Because good aged balsamic vinegar needs nothing.

It's just, it's once again, it's aged. It's just, it's just fermented basically, or, or just allowed to reduce. And yeah, it's so good. And that's What I mean, it's like, I look for the. Like I only buy olive oil and glass, for example, and I always make sure it's a dark glass because. Because light is extremely effect. It affects olive oil in a negative way.

It oxidizes.

Yeah. So you want dark glass. And I don't choose. I try to find most of these things in glass versus plastic because I don't want the plastic to leach. I mean, microplastics, I know it's. It's a popular thing to focus on right now, but there's truth to it. Like, there is plastic in everything right now. And we have to like limit it as much as possible because. Yeah, it's. We. We got it. Like, there's something like. Like a credit card's worth of plastic in all of us right now. Something like that.

No. A week.

A week? Is it a week? Yeah, I was hearing that.

And I think the new data coming out, looking at cardiac plaque that contains microplastics, like, this is frightening. And you know, it is the number one threat to everyone's life, men and women alike, is cardiovascular disease. And microplastic system is absolutely part of this story. And the explanation as to why, and.

Here'S what's the most frightening to me about all of it, is that we did this.

Oh, for sure.

Planet did not have this harmful things like nature did not do this. We did it. Yeah, like, we are. It's. It's just like I was saying, like we're extending that kind of behavior of we are hurting ourselves. And then we do it even on a personal level. Like we're, It's. We're doing it in the foods that are created in the business, businesses that are out there trying to serve us, but they're really doing a disservice to us. And then we carry that hatred and anger on towards ourselves as well. It's gotta stop. I had. There was someone I was talking to on my podcast, Everyday Ancestral, where they said something that was really, like, it was really interesting. So they were talking about corporations and how corporate think, like how. How we should really rethink what a corporation is. And she used the example of like, instead of a corporation coming to a place and saying, and let's say they see a river and they might go like, okay, we need to get rid of that river so that we can build our corporation here. She was saying, what if the corporation instead said, how can I build the corporation to be more like the river? And I thought, wow, that's a really interesting perspective of like, And I, and one I think we can all carry into life is like, here I am around this, these people or this nature or whatever it is. I'm in my day to day life. Like, how can I, how can I, instead of trying to change everybody else and everything around me. And it's not necessarily about how do I, how do I change myself, but how do I be in this world that and, and have it be closer to the nature that's around me. Like, how do I serve the nature versus the nature serving me? Because nature is right, nature's there, it's going to do its thing. But right now we think we have to conquer it. And it's like that is doing nothing but harm to us.

Of course, of course. I can't help but be reminded of. Do you remember the movie Baby Mama? I quoted at least twice a week.

Shields with.

No, with Tina Fey.

Oh, that one. Yeah. Yeah, I think I was thinking. Yeah, I know you're talking about now.

It was a hysterical movie. And Steve Martin, essentially, I mean, he's supposed to be like the founder of Whole Foods, right? I forget what it was called in the movie. But in, in one scene where they're building their, their flagship and he, Steve Martin brings in a shell and he says to the executive team, I want you to make the store like this shell. And one of the executive VPs says, you want it to look like the shell. And Steve Barton turns around and he's like, I can't even talk to you when you use that tone. Even though like using a bad tone. And Tina Fey said, because she gets him. She said you wanted to have the essence of the shell. And he was like, exactly, Kate. That's exactly what you were saying. Sorry I flipped on you, Rick. And that's what we're missing is that this is about having the essence of nature in us at all times. Even though we're living in a monarch world, we have to maintain that essence of nature. You have done that with pluck. How do we get to pluck?

Yes, thank you. Yeah, you can find us at our website, eatpluck.com you can find us on Amazon and yeah, just give it a try. We have lots of ways for you to try it. You can, you can sample it. You can, we have a sample pack or you can, you can start small, start easy and see how you like it. But my hope is that it becomes a mainstay because I really do believe this will help. There's lots of things I've found in my 20 years plus years in this business that I think, like I said, are the illusion of health. They, they, they say that they're healthy, but they ultimately actually hurt us. I really do believe we cannot go wrong with organ meat. So whether it's come, you know, getting them through pluck or through, if you're more apt to taking a supplement, that's fine or eating them, you know yourself, just buying them and cooking them and incorporating them in your diet. I just want you to eat organ meats. However you do that is great by me. And please let me know how you feel once you start getting them in your diet because I believe that you're going to feel a lot better.

Amazing. Amazing. James Barry, thank you so much for being here today. It was a great conversation and I know that people are really going to enjoy it and I so appreciate your perspective that I, I don't come to eating animals easily for whatever the reason and I do understand both sides of the argument. It just doesn't. Eating animals doesn't resonate with me, but I completely understand the value and I also understand that there is no one diet for, for all of humanity and we are all different. And I loved that you said that you, that, that that there's one person that will never lie to you and that's your body and you need to be intuitive. And I was never so sick as when I was a pure vegan. So we all have to dial in and listen to what our body needs and give it what it needs. And this is one amazing of helping to nourish your body in a way that is very ancestral.

Thank you for having me.

My pleasure. And thank you all for joining me today. And if you enjoyed this conversation, then make sure that you like it, share it, make sure you follow us and know that I will be back next week, same time, same place. It's Dr. Jen. Bye for now.

Thank you for joining me on this episode of the Keeping a breast podcast with Dr. Chen. I hope you found the discussion informative and empowering. Remember, breast health is health. So by staying informed and taking proactive steps, you have the power to optimize your well being. My team and I encourage you to apply the knowledge gained from today's episode to make make positive changes in your life and share what you've learned with others. If you enjoyed this episode, please subscribe to our podcast and leave us a review. Your feedback and support mean the world to us and help us to reach more people who can benefit from these conversations. Stay connected with me on social media where I share additional resources, advice, updates and announcements related to breast health. You can find me on Facebook, Instagram and YouTube at Dr. Jenn Simmons and remember, MyGen has two N's, so until next time, remember to stay proactive, informed and confident in your breast health journey. The key to your health is you.