51. What is Holding you Back from Success? An Ayurvedic Specialist Perspective (Happy Healthy Hadlee)

Welcome to my podcast. I'm Dr. Nicole Kane, a naturopathic doctor with a master's in clinical psychology and a former anxiety sufferer turned anxiety freedom Rebel. This is one of my favorite interviews with a person that I admire so many greatly because of the innovative way that she blends wisdom from the past with research from the present. In fact, this conversation is a springboard to a series that she and I are going to be doing over the coming months. So you're going to want to stay tuned for that. I'm introducing you to a dear friend of mine, and her name is Hadley. So make sure that you check out this recording and then stay tuned for future recordings with Hadley. She is sweet, she is brilliant, she's charismatic, and she knows so much about ayurvedic medicine. Make sure to put references to everything that we talk about in the show notes. And again, you can check out the link in the bio in Instagram @ Dr. Nicole Caine to be able to connect with her and listen to our other shows. Thank you so much for listening to the get yout Life back podcast. I'm Dr. Nicole Kane.

Hello.

Oh, my gosh. I'm, like, sitting here smiling ear to ear that I get to see you.

Oh, my gosh, I missed you.

It's been so long. You're across the globe.

I know. I've just been thinking about you. I'm like, oh, man, I wish we lived in the same place all year round.

Oh, we had so much fun when we were together. We saw each other, like, every week or every other week while you were here. And it was amazing to get to squeeze that much time out of being together.

I know. If not twice a week.

It was amazing.

Yeah.

So where are you right now? Are you in Croatia?

I am, yes. I'm in Split, Croatia. I have been here for a few weeks now. We, my husband and I went on our honeymoon two weeks, and then now we're here. So, yeah, Croatia.

Oh, my goodness. I am so loving that I'm able to follow you on social media and see your pictures. Kind of looks like a perma vacation. Not gonna lie.

I know. It's kind of awesome. The weekends are just basically like, going on vacation every weekend.

You're like riding a boat, you're at little cafes and just so happy for you.

Thank you. Yeah, it's awesome. And then we're gonna go to Barcelona after that. And you guys are gonna come to Barcelona too, right? We're gonn.

It's an absolute priority. So Paul and I have our passports. They are updated, they're ready to go. And we just got to make sure that Health for Life ADA is just hitting the ground and running and assuming that everything is going great with that. Absolutely. Barcelona has been on my list forever. And when's a better time than when you're there? I know.

Oh, my gosh. I hope that it happens. I'm sorry. So excited. It's going to be awesome.

Yes. We're getting together to have our first podcast conversation. And I say first because I'm actually going to continue recording this because it's just so fun. I'm saying first because for you guys who are listening is Hadley and I. When we get together, I just feel like magic happens. And before we knew it, we had a miniseries planned for you. Yeah.

This happened within, like, four weeks.

Yes, it happened within four weeks or less. And when we sat down, we're like, we've been kind of just chatting about this for a little while and we just vibe so well, like, our spirits are lifted and we're just so happy. We're like, what if we could pass that on to. To both of our audiences and really support them? And so we literally got out. It was like a sheet of paper, I think, Hadley, that you had brought. And so I just started, like, writing and you started talking and just beauty came out and we mapped out a seven series miniseries. And then we were, like, still bursting at the seams. There's still more information. And we're like, okay, well, let's do a mini course after that for the people who loved the miniseries. So I kind of want to, like, pin that in the minds of the listeners because today is like a peak. It's like you're peeping through a peephole at something amazing that's being constructed on the other side and you're seeing a little bit of it.

Oh, I am so excited for that. I think it's going to be amazing. It's very different from anything. It's something that I wish that I had had and that I want for myself even now. So I'm really, really excited to create it. Oh, my. Is going to be amazing.

And one of the things that you created that I am constantly referring back to, and y' all are not going to want to miss this. This is a masterpiece. Is. Hadley actually created a quiz, a self assessment quiz, and the topic is all about how to be successful with respect to your ayurvedic dosha. And there's an actual quiz, and it's literally the most comprehensive and relevant quiz that I've ever seen. So I can't wait to get that launched so everyone can get access to it.

It's going to be Yes, I know. My dad was recently asking me, like, what's the best dosha quiz that you would recommend? And I'm like, well, I actually just created.

Yeah, like the one that I have. Yep. Yeah, we're going to make that accessible soon. So for you who are listening is just bookmark this podcast and make sure that you follow Hadley on her Instagram and then follow me on my Instagram. We'll have all of the links in the bio and then as soon as that goes live, pop in and take that quiz. And then we're going to be putting out content so that you have the information and you're not just stuck with the what now. We're going to actually help you to utilize that wisdom to be more successful. And so, Hadley, if it's okay, I want to share with my audience a little bit more about you because I know you and I talk with you forever. But if you don't mind, can I make an introduction and share your bio?

Yeah, yeah, absolutely.

All right, so listen to this bio. You are going to be impressed. So Hadley, she is a health and lifestyle coach and she helps people feel better in their bodies, have more energy, gain more confidence, cultivate a better relationship with food, and become less stressed in the day to day living. And Hadley is incredibly educated in terms of her own personal development work and also formal academic work. She graduated from the University of Michigan with a B.S. in Biopsychology, Cognition and neuroscience, which she connected on. I've not met many people that have studied studied biopsychology with an emphasis on neuroscience. And so when I learned that about you, I was like, oh my God, this woman's a genius. But it doesn't stop there. Hadley also has a master's degree in public health in Human behavior and health education. And she is sharing her wisdom with you for a very affordable rate. She has an online program called Healthy Happy Healthy Habits. Happy Healthy Habits. And I actually have people that I love very dearly that have gone through your program, Hadley, and I've been able to witness the transformation from that program. So she has an online program, Happy Healthy Habits, which combines the concepts of behavioral science habits for optimal health group dynamics. And these group dynamics help our clients make lasting, influential changes in their lives. And so we're going to bring some of this wisdom to you and we're really going to be focusing on changes today. Today is all about making changes. And when we get together next time, we're going to be expanding on Hadley's wisdom and really integrating kind of like what your degree is. Is that biopsychology, the cognition and the neuroscience with respect to Ayurvedic medicine into the conversation.

Yes. Bringing it all together. I'm so excited.

Bringing it all together. While y' all are listening, if you're somewhere where you can stop and either pull over or pull out your phone, if you're somewhere where you're not a traffic hazard is. I want you to bookmark Hadley's information. Because sometimes if we don't get to the end of the podcast and we just forget and you want to come back and finish it later, I want to make sure that right away you have her information. So Instagram is a great place to keep up with her. She's really active there. And so Instagram, just going to simply find happy, healthy Hadley. And let me spell Hadley for you. It's H A D L E E. She's also on Facebook at Happy Healthy Hadley, LinkedIn @Hadley, and then, of course, she has her own website, Happy Healthy Hadley.com.

So, girl, you got all the tongue twisters.

The tongue twisters. I'll find easier words to trip over later.

That's.

That's the thing. It's like the easiest word. I'm like, fair enough. Oh, my gosh. I admire and just love you so much, sister. And thank you. Thank you so much from the bottom of my heart for being here today from Croatia.

Yeah. Well, thank you so much for having me here. You're the best. I'm so excited, and I'm so excited to connect with your audience, too. I have already connected with some of them because we've done an Instagram live, and they're so cool. So I'm excited to connect with more amazing people.

And what I love about the audience that I am blessed to serve is that these people are so hungry for knowledge, and they care very deeply about finding truth in both sides of the spectrum. It's like, okay, what. What is all of the data and how can I identify truth? And I think you bring to the table a profound piece of the data that isn't being spoken about very much. And so I think that the message that you're going to bring to my audience is going to be so well received and so loved.

Yay. Yes. I. It's really. I love bringing together the, like, ancient wisdom of Ayurveda and, you know, this ancient health system that that was, you know, has been around for a thousand thousands of years and like thousands and like 5,000 plus years. Like it's wild. And then the modern science that we've been proving to be, you know, proving all of these Ayurvedic habits and all of these things, proving all of that. True. And then also bringing in the behavior change science as well to bring that together. I used to kind of look at all of those things as being like, how do I bring these things together? Like, I have like these two different worlds and I don't know what to do because, you know, all the people are so different in both worlds. And so but now I've been able to kind of bring those things together and it's been really, really fun to be able to do that and to meet people like you who are also doing that. So it's awesome.

And I really admire that because I think that sometimes people can just fall into one world and it can be kind of an echo chamber as opposed to what I hear you saying is like you're trying to merge these two worlds by taking wisdom. And the neat thing about Ayurveda is that this wisdom and tradition that's been around 5,000 and more years is actually being validated by current science. And so you've had the ability to merge a lot of that together with your studies and with your clinical practice and with your relationships with people in the fields. And I love that. So what I'm kind of thinking about is how you got to where you are. Who is Hadley? Tell me, tell me about how you've done this with your own personal self.

Good question. Okay, so where do I start? Let's see. Well, I was always really into health and wellness. My parents raised me. They were. My parents are awesome. Shout out to my parents. Nicole knows this.

They're the best.

Yes. But my parents are. We're really into personal development and also behavior change and really like. Or more into like health, wellness, you know, exercise, nutrition. They were doing like the whole organic before organic was really a thing. So if you remember way back before organic was really a thing, especially in the Midwest, this was all very like present in my life. However, I had a very weird relationship with food and with my body. So I really equated health with looking a certain way with, you know, eating a certain way. And my, you know, I kind of had this skewed view of how my body was. I had a lot of insecurities around it even as a young kid because my body was just different from my sister and my mom. And you know, some of our friends and stuff as well. I had a lot of friends, family, friends who were younger than me, so I was like developing before all of them. So, you know, so a lot of that kind of played into this body insecurity, but I was really into health. It was just kind of skewed by that not being able to think of health outside of how I looked. So when I went to school, I was initially going to try to be a doctor as pre med, as, as so many people are, and then transition out of it. I realized that it wasn't exactly my calling. It wasn't exactly what I wanted to be doing. I had just thought, well, I'll be a doctor because I want to do something with health, I want to help people. And so I realized I was very into prevention. I really wanted to do something to help people before they got to a place where it was really hard to treat whatever symptoms they had. So I was introduced to Ayurveda when I was a sophomore in college. I went to the Chopra center in California with my mom. I was so lucky to be able to do that. It was amazing. I learned a little bit about it there. Definitely didn't solve my issues with my body and with food and all of that kind of thing that came a little bit later. But it did get me on this path to. It was like, oh, this made so much more sense than the, the Western model that I had been learning, you know, with just treatment and all of that kind of thing. Not that there's anything wrong with the Western model, but it doesn't address everything that we need. Right. And so I. I just kind of started to get deeper and deeper into Ayurveda. And then I decided to go to school for public health, specifically in behavior change, to figure out how to implement behavior change for populations as well as individuals. And then I found this health coaching program that kind of brought those things together, the behavior change and Ayurveda. And so then that was kind of where I shot off from there. That was like, oh, this is where it all can come together and make sense together. So then I started my business right after I graduated from my master's program. I just graduated, moved to Seattle and started my business right from there. So I've never had a quote unquote, real job where I've been employed. I've always had my own business. So, yeah, so that's kind of my story. And along the way, I was able to really shift my relationship with my body, with myself, with food and all that kind of thing by learning, by getting really in touch with myself and my body through the habits of Ayurveda and learning the behavior change science behind being able to actually implement those habits as well. So that's the long and short.

Sounds like you had this ability to almost do a zoom out where you're questioning the definition of health. Where in the beginning you might have defined health as, how does my body look? Do I look like this person or do I look like that person? Or I see this ideal. And when we don't see similarities or aligning up of what we're expecting our bodies to function like or look like, then it can feel like I have to do something to change that. And so based on that understanding, you were experiencing an unhealthy relationship with food, and your behaviors and your habits were functioning from that position. And then you pursued more education and you expand, explored other options. And so it in Western medicine, I often see the definition of health being a lack of symptoms. If you don't have symptoms, then you're good, you're healthy.

Absolutely. Yeah.

It could be because you have a headache and you suppressed it with an ibuprofen. But does that mean that you're healthier or does it just mean that you can't express the symptom anymore? And then you discovered Ayurvedic medicine and more Ayurvedic understanding of what it means to be happy and healthy. And then that was. That knowledge helped you to kind of transform your life. I'm curious, and this isn't one of the questions that we had talked about going over today, but if I could throw you a little bit of a curveball, I'm just wondering how Ayurvedic medicine would define health.

Yes, I was actually just going to bring that up. Yay.

I love that. This happens to us all the time.

Yes. So the word Ayurveda, ayu means this means life or longevity. And then veda means science or sacred knowledge. So basically, Ayurveda means the science of longevity or the science of life, or it can also be translated to the sacred knowledge of life or the sacred knowledge of longevity. So, like, I just love that. And the parts of Ayurveda, Svasta basically means health in Ayurveda, and it means the definition of it. I actually have it pulled up on my computer, funnily enough.

Of course you do.

So I'll read it off. So it's the state of being, which is which, in which body, mind, soul and senses are in blissful Equilibrium. So it's so much more than the absence of disease or the absence of symptoms. Right. It's like it includes the soul, it includes our senses, which that barely gets any, you know, talking time in health and wellness. Right. Our senses. And, you know, it also includes the body and mind, which we are talking more and more about how those things are connected, but it includes everything. It's like blissful equilibrium. Like we, we are healthy when we feel so, so good. That is health.

That is health. I was writing as you were talking, and so it's a state of being where the body, the mind and the soul and the senses are in blissful equilibrium. Is that right?

Yep.

I feel like we just had to sit on that for just a second.

Absolutely.

As you're listening to this podcast is think about what if you were to change your expectations from your helpers, your healthcare providers, your treatments, your doctors, your clinicians. Right. And change your expectations so that the goal of the treatments that you're using, that, the goal, the bullseye that you are aiming towards, if that bullseye is to help shift your mind, your body, your soul and your senses into blissful equilibrium, how would that change the conversation of health?

Right. Wow.

And I feel like that changes everything. It changes everything. And so if you're feeling like you're not being shifted towards blissful equilibrium on the path or on the journey towards blissful equilibrium, then maybe there's another way. And maybe it's from an ancient tradition that has over 5,000 years of results to be passed down to you. Maybe it's exploring Ayurveda and that's what Hadley is all about. I also, as you were saying, that I felt so emotional because there's my mentor, my teacher taught me about Samuel Hahnemann. And Samuel Hahnemann is a thinker. He's a physician, German, from the 1800s, and he was the founder of homeopathy and he defined health. And it really resonates, Hadley, with what you said in Aphorism 9, which is chapter 9 from the Organon of Medicine written by Samuel Hahnemann. He talks about how health is where a person is in such a state of well being that it enables their mind and body to function to such a degree that it obliges wonderment of those looking on.

Yes. Oh, boy, I love that.

So we have blissful equilibrium and obliges wonderment, and then we have your health. Right. And so it's just really, I think, a conversation changer because we're not talking about how do I just be more sickly successful how do I make more money? How do I stop having panic attacks? While all of those things are important, I feel like what the unique part of this conversation is, is that maybe we could take off that glass ceiling of expectations and lean into what traditional medical wisdom has said is possible for 5,000 years and just start to ask ourselves the question of what would, what would help shift my life into blissful equilibrium? What would help me to function to such a degree that it obliges wonderment? And that's what the series is about.

Yes. Oh, so good. And you know, I invite your listeners, you know, those of you who are listening right now, to just think about what it would feel like for your body, mind, soul and senses to be in blissful equilibrium. What would that look like for you? How would that change the way you move about your life? How would that change the way you communicate with people? How would that change the way that you speak to yourself? How would that change what kinds of habits you have? What kinds of things that you're doing on a day to day basis? Really allow yourself to, to envision that right now. Because when we don't allow ourselves to envision it, then it, then, you know, there's really no chance of it happening. But if you start to just open that door a little bit and allow yourself to just get really curious about it, you don't have to force anything, but just get really curious about like, what could that feel like and could I be open to the possibility of that? Because so many people have never experienced that, or maybe did when they were really young kids, but haven't in such a long time. And that is my passion, is to help people feel that way and to then be able to do all the things that they want to do, all the things that light them up, all of their passions, the causes that they're passionate about, the different movements that they want to be a part of. It's been really cool to see people be able to thrive in that way and then be able to affect change wherever they want to be affecting change as well. It's so cool.

So the thing that's coming to mind as you're saying this is I'm kind of imagining, and even in my own life, pursuing wonderment, pursuing the sacred knowledge of life and longevity, and pursuing blissful, blissful equilibrium in the mind, the body, the spirit, the souls, my senses. I feel like there's this part that comes up and that part is like, that sounds nice in theory.

Yeah.

Is it real? Like really, are you just pulling my leg so could you respond to that? Respond to those who may be listening to this who are barely able to get out of bed, let alone dream of the possible of blissfulness, equilibrium?

Absolutely. Yeah. And you know, sometimes, especially when we're in that, when we're really in it, it's so hard to think of anything else being possible because that's not what we're currently experiencing. And that's also why I work with my clients for a year. I work with my clients for a really long time, at least a year, because, you know, it takes time. It definitely takes time and effort and energy. But effort, I say effort and I mean really more like aligned to effort because we can effort our way through things and not actually be aligned, not actually get to where we want to go. And. And yet, you know, there's one person that I'm specifically thinking of who has had chronic pain her whole life and who I worked with and who was able to shift so many parts of her life and her habits and everything. And her pain is not gone, actually, it's not gone. But she is so happy in her life and she is able to be still, even with the pain. She is now in blissful equilibrium with her mind, body, soul and senses. And, you know, I worked with her a few years ago and she still is feeling that way and still reaches out to me, you know, time and time again and tells me that like, yes, I'm, I'm still feeling this way. And there was so much healing that occurred. And so, you know, it might look different for different people. Health doesn't mean health. This svasta, this word. It means the state of being in which body, mind, soul and senses are in blissful equilibrium. But that doesn't mean that you have to be pain free. You have to have a certain level of ability. We can experience that without, you know, without being, you know, quote unquote able bodied or, you know, any of these things that are conventionally defined or conventionally what we would think of as like, you know, perfect health. So there is some nuance and it can be different for every person, but. And it can feel really awesome regardless, which is so cool.

And I think about the way that I typically see healing occur, and some of this comes from my teachers and their teachers. Teachers and a lot of traditional, ancient naturopathic wisdom, and I'm curious if you've seen this in your clients too, is where healing often follows a pretty predictable pattern where either it starts from the inside out, top down, or it reverses in order that it came And I'll explain that just a little bit more. Where when I've worked with my patients in the past, almost always the first thing that starts to get better is the emotion, the mind, the brain. Right. So top down, inside out. So the brain will get much better before we see changes in, like eczema. The eczema is on the outside of the body. The body's pushed that disease state out. It's less important. Then we got to get the central nervous system on board. And so I often see that if we have the emotions improving, kind of like your client, she was just in bliss. She's feeling so good. Is that it isn't impossible to predict that possibly her physical pain might actually continue to improve. It just depends on the order that she developed her disease. And so if you're doing this work and you're really digging in and you're feeling like, wow, like emotionally, I'm encouraged, I'm on fire, I'm hopeful, I have dreams, I feel contentment. I'm connecting with people so much more deeply. I feel meaning, I feel hope, I feel calm, I feel emboldened. If that's starting to shift and change in your body, it's very possible that if you allow that process to naturally unfold, that it may shift to your tissues and your cells and your body and structure itself. And the other thing is the disease order in which it occurred is oftentimes the body will start disease on the outside. And then medicine tends to suppress disease. So we think about how a little baby may be born with eczema. The typical treatment for eczema is a steroid cream. The visual appearance of that disease is gone. But then we see the baby develops asthma or sinusitis or atopi. So the disease is now driven deeper. It's, instead of being on the skin, is now in the lungs and the sinuses. And so then you have this person whose disease is now suppressed, who is taking allergy medication, by the way. This is like my story. And yeah, using inhalers. And so when I was going through my healing process, I was on six prescriptions, not including two inhalers by the time I was in college. And it wasn't, I wasn't healthier. My symptoms, my symptoms of disease were, were quote, unquote, controlled and managed. But I, I was, felt like garbage. And when I did my healing work, the first thing that got better was my well being. My emotions got better. I still had asthma. But then after years of continued work and unwinding, I ended up, it was really Interesting. My asthma had been controlled by an inhaler. But I remember waking up one day, it was three years after starting really, to truly heal my body through lifestyle changes and dietary changes and homeopathy and herbs supplements and things like that. I woke up one day and I had asthma. And I was like, oh, my gosh, where's this coming from? And I changed my natural treatment a little bit and the asthma was gone, and it's never come back. And so it's kind of neat how if we work with the laws of nature and we focus on what we know the body does, in its inherent wisdom, we can guide it towards healing. And so those who are listening, you hear the story of this woman who's in a state of bliss, and you're like, yeah, but she still has pain.

It's all data.

She might be in a state of pain because it's an opportunity for her to learn something about herself, something about her.

And it has been absolutely. She has, like, had so many breakthroughs with, like, the way that, you know, she had a lot of illness as a child and stuff, and so, like, very, very extreme illness as a child. So she had, you know, some trauma around that, a lot of trauma around that. And so. And so, yeah, she's been able to work through so much of that, and she's used pain as the pathway to do that. And it's just been so, so inspiring to be able to be, you know, a part of that journey and to watch her just blossom through that. It's been amazing. And so, yeah, so. So for anyone who's listening, who feels, who is like, oh, but. But she still has pain. So, like, she can't be that blissful. Like, she actually is. And so, yeah, so I always ask the question, like, what is actually the end goal? Because the end goal is not even necessarily our bodies being perfectly healthy. Right. Our end goal is to feel that bliss, is to feel fully integrated and really happy and, you know, joyful, at peace, content, whatever. Whatever word resonates with you, as maybe I'm saying them, or if there's another word that resonates with you, it's not. The end goal is not necessarily physical health, which is, like, so many people are like, what, you're a health coach? Like, how is that not the end goal? But it's really feeling the way that we want to feel. And so that's where I want to help people get, is to feel that way.

I'm going to repeat that. I think that's really important because we've Been talking about our bullseye and making changes in your life and changing the definition of health. And that goal that you're helping people to reach is to feel that bliss, contentedness, that joyfulness, finding that equilibrium that they talk about in Ayurveda, that wonderment that Hahnemann talks about. It sound like it's a state of being that we're working to achieve. And so I'm curious as people are, I want to make this actionable. So as people listen to this podcast and they're like, I want bliss. All right, let's do this. What are the, what are the most common mistakes that you see people make that get in the way from them achieving this state or pursuing this state?

Yeah, you know, so the first thing I feel like is not having structure. That's the, that's like the number one thing that might be, well, it might be obvious to some people, but it might not be obvious to other people. You know, the, what we've been talking about is a little bit like, is. It's a little bit esoteric, it's like a little bit ungrounded. Right. And so we need the structure to ground it down and to make it tangible and to make it tactical. So, you know, that's where that's like my specialty is with the specific health habits of Ayurveda. And those are in service to what we've been talking about, to this like blissful equilibrium. And, and so, you know, I always used to get frustrated when I would listen to podcasts and they would just like stick with the esoteric. Yeah. And like, I'm like, yeah, but like, how do I do that? So I'm glad that you, that you brought it into like the tangible. And I think of it as like more of the earth element. So like in Ayurveda we have the, the five different elements which we're going to get into in our miniseries. But I think of that as being like the most grounded, the most, you know, we can go from like subtle to tangible. And that's the most tangible way to do it, is to create habits and to create structure in our life. So I always say that structure creates freedom. So when we actually have the structure that we need. And by structure, what I'm talking about right now is habits, is the health habits that, you know, I work with, with my clients. And once we have kind of like a day to day sort of a schedule, but it's a lot more than just just a schedule to automate those habits. Once we have that in place, it Makes the rest of life so much easier, and it makes it so much easier to get into that place of health or equilibrium or bliss or whatever we want to call it.

I like that you use the word automate, because automation is a technique that can help make life easier. And so if you're listening to this podcast, you're like, oh, my gosh, she's gonna ask me to do all of this extra stuff. And I already feel 11 out of 10 full and busy. And automation can actually help you get more done in less time or feel more efficient or less overwhelmed. So I love that you included that word.

Oh, my gosh. Yes. It's all about automation, because the thing is, when we don't have things automated, we. We tend to get decision fatigue. And so that. So that just means that we're making all these decisions throughout our day, and we fatigue our decision muscle essentially, by doing that. And then at the end of the day, we end up on the couch with a tub of ice cream. Not that a tub of ice cream is bad or wrong, but whatever your vice of choice is that you. That doesn't make you feel blissful, in blissful equilibrium, you know, watching Netflix or doing something else to kind of try to escape or to. To try to, you know, get away from all the decisions that you had to make before. And so when we actually automate these things and put them in place, then life gets way easier. Then we have way more capacity to be able to do the things that, like, we actually want to do, because health is, again, in service to that bliss, in. To all of the other things in our life that we want to be doing as well.

So it's kind of what you're. What I hear you saying is it's kind of like when we're thinking about making changes, we're trying to implement healthy habits. Something that can get in the way of that is emotional fatigue, mental fatigue, and just straight up not having enough time. And what you're describing is a way to overcome that obstacle is to create structure and to create automation so that you're not having to invest all of that mental and emotional energy into that. And then you have room for the other things that you need to focus that energy on. And so I'm kind of curious what kinds of. From the perspective of Ayurveda, what are some strategies that somebody can start using today that might help them start taking a couple steps forward? Whether it's an automation strategy that you might teach your clients or something that they can add in. Do you have Any ideas?

Yeah. Oh, absolutely. So, you know, from the perspective of Ayurveda, Ayurveda has like, all of these amazing habits, but I actually really bring in the modern behavior change science that we have to in order to actually implement them. So the first thing that kind of trips to people up a lot of the time is perfectionism.

And so, girl, you call me out.

And even if you don't identify as a perfectionist, even if you're like, yeah, no, I don't really think I need, like, perfection in all of these areas of my life. Just hear me out. Because a perfectionist is like, not necessarily. A perfectionist might have a really messy house because they think, well, if I can't do it right, if I can't have it all perfectly clean, then I'm not going to have it, like, I'm not going to clean anything at all. And I had this so bad. I seriously had this, you know, with cleaning, with all of my health habits, with food. Oh, my gosh, the deprivation binge cycle was so real. And that's. That's all. All or nothing perfectionism. And so that's the first thing that I helped my clients get out of, is that all or nothing mentality. And sometimes they don't realize they have it in certain areas either. You know, sometimes they might think, oh, I have it in this area. But then once they start to become really conscious of what, where they are saying, like, oh, I'm not going to do that because I can't do it right. Quote, unquote, right. Or I can't do it perfectly, or I can't do in the way that someone told me I'm supposed to do it right. Like, maybe a wellness professional told you you're supposed to do it. That was my issue with meditation. I wasn't doing it right.

Yeah, I feel that way a lot.

Absolutely, yes, yes. Then they start to realize that it actually runs their life in a lot of different areas as well, which is very liberating. I just had a client who, who was like, oh, my gosh, she's a PhD student. And she was like, I'm actually excited to write this paper because I'm not looking at it from a lens of, like, I have to do it perfectly. I have to, like, do it. And in, like, an all or nothing way, I can actually enjoy it and have fun with it. I was like, this is huge. That's a huge, huge change shift in my life.

How blissful. Like, she could write a paper just for the joy of creating something that's much more blissful than just. Just like, having to crank out this, like, perfect piece of writing that's overwhelming and draining her bandwidth.

Right, exactly. And then because she has enjoyed the process of it, instead of resisting the process of it and just trying to get it all done, she's going to be able to. She's going to have so much more bandwidth for decisions, for making decisions that are helpful for her. And then also she's not going to have to look to other areas of her life to find pleasure, to find enjoyment, because she enjoyed that instead of dreading it. Right. Like, all of these things play together. It's so fun.

So how did she do that? So she enjoyed the process of writing. She enjoyed the process, what she's doing. She shifted out of a mindset of perfectionism into a mindset of process. Is there a way to distill down what she did or what you helped her to do to get there?

Yeah, so mostly what I help people do is just identify all of the areas in their lives that they are doing this. And so that was one of the areas of her life where it was like, the end goal was the most important part. And, you know, obviously, like, the grade in school, that's like the. The end goal. And this happened for me as well, where once you are able to say, okay, I'm not going to worry so much about that end, that end goal. Instead, I'm going to worry about the process. The other thing that I help people with is shooting for an 80%, shooting for a B minus. Because a lot of the people that I work with are like, all A's. Like, I have to shoot for all A's. I was totally that way as well. And it actually doesn't matter if we get all A's. Like, nearly as much as any of us think. If we can get a B minus in every area of our life, we are doing great. Um, and so that's like, a really great, like, way to kind of shift our mindset around it. Like, I am just shooting for the B minus. And that was really helpful for me. And my master's program, I just shot for the B minus, ended up getting better grades than I have ever gotten because I enjoyed it, because I was like, oh, I'm not so worried about the grades at the end of the day. So. So those two pieces. So. So the one piece is focusing on the process, but also just giving yourself grace and just shooting for the B minus rather than shoot the 100%.

I want to recap what you're saying is, we're talking about if we just rewind back, is that somebody is trying to. They want, they want this, they want, they want wonderment, they want equilibrium, they want bliss. And one of the ways to help them start the process of pursuing that through the lens of Ayurveda and the work that you do, especially with habit change, is to create more structure and really bring in that grounding earth element. Because structure can create freedom. And one of the obstacles to that helping create freedom is if somebody is focusing on the end goal, if they have this kind of perfectionist way of like, I need the perfect schedule, I need the perfect scaffold so that I can have the perfect outcome, because that mounts the pressure so much and that can be emotionally mentally draining. And so what you're talking about in this one example, and this is just one of many, one that I happen to relate with and you know that me is that perfectionism, instead of focusing more on what you're trying to accomplish, is, you know, allow yourself the grace for a b minus or 80% and focus more on the process, more on the moment, instead of more on the end goal, which is a very mindful approach. We think about mindfulness and meditation is all about being in the moment. It's all about activation of your brainstem. And your brainstem is a very much in the moment, kind of a part of the brain, part of the body, where it's like, what am I saying? Smelling. Look, smell the flowers, look at the sunshine, taste the sweetness of the tea that you're drinking. Whatever it is, is. It sounds like you're shifting with the work that you're doing. You're helping people with the structure is you're shifting the brain from this kind of hedonic treadmill of doing and doing and doing, which are different areas of the brain. And you're really bringing them back to that basic state of being, that being in the moment, being.

Often, you know, often in order to find more joy in our lives, we actually don't have to do anything differently. We just have to be with whatever we're doing.

I want. Can we say. Can you say that again? Because I think that's really, really good.

Yeah, yeah.

More joy.

So in order to find more joy in our lives, we often don't have to actually do anything. We just have to be with whatever we're doing.

How do you be with what you're doing?

So, you know, whatever you are doing throughout your day, being super, super present with it and just, just looking for the joy in it, because the joy is there. The joy actually exists in that moment, but we miss it. We often, you know, we're on this, like, pursuit, and I need this reminder all the time. But we're on this pursuit of happiness or this pursuit of, you know, a different goal. And often we. And we don't even have to take more time to be present with it. A lot of times people think that we have to slow down and be slower, and sometimes that's helpful at first to be more mindful to slow down, but we can actually just start to enjoy all of these things in the moment as we are experiencing them. And I am not perfect at this by any means, but it is a great reminder that joy is there if we search for it.

I have a podcast called Permission for Joy that I did a while ago, and it's. You're reminding me of it now because I feel like sometimes when people are hearing this kind of a message is that we don't have permission to be joyful, because if we're joyful, then we're ignoring the pain of the world or we're ignoring our own personal suffering. And what I feel like you're calling us to is to be more honest about the joy that is actually there and allowing ourselves to just simply acknowledge that joy exists and to just notice that. And I always put this gesture up. If you're listening to this. I'm kind of holding my right hand up and my left hand up, and I always imagine the right hand may be holding on to the pain and the suffering and the truth of the state of the world in many ways, or your trauma or whatever it is that is dark and sad and scary and anger provoking. But it's more honest to also notice what's in your left hand, which is the joy that is in this world. And I feel like that's what you're calling us to do. Hadley is more. Joy is more being with what you're doing as opposed to adding things to do. It's more acknowledging the truth in the opposites. The. The yin and the yang from traditional Chinese medicine, the shadow and the light from psychoanalytic psychotherapy, and just allowing yourself to notice the light, notice the shadow, and try to integrate the truth of both.

Mm, I love it. Yes, exactly. And. And actually, that's one of the habits, habits specifically that I focus on with my clients is easeful living. And so just orienting to ease. Orienting to joy or contentment or peace or whatever it is that you want more of in your life. And, you know, that's probably the least tangible habit that I focus on with my clients. It's maybe the hardest one to, you know, automate for sure. But it's also the one once. Once my clients get it down, it's the most impactful for sure as well.

That's amazing. I feel like we could talk for hours. And we finish up for today, and everyone who's listening, this is going to keep happening. So be sure to check back, because there's going to be a miniseries and then a mini course that's going to be coming out with Hadley and myself. So do check back.

And so we will get way more tangible on those.

Yeah. Right now. Right now, we're like, both in our vatas, apparently, like, very esoteric.

Yeah.

So I was curious.

It's vata season, so there you go.

Is that right? So fall is vata season. That's really seeing. Every single time I talk to you, I learned so many things. So tell us, is there anything else that you wanted to mention or that you wanted to leave with our listeners before we finished up with today?

Good question. I would say. I feel like the theme of. Kind of what we've been talking about today is. Is opening ourselves up to, you know, when we were talking about the definition of health, opening ourselves up to the possibility of that blissful equilibrium, opening ourselves up to shifting and changing. One of the. One of the things that I do with my clients is like identity evolution. So becoming the kind of person that we want to be and stepping into that. That new identity and which. Which, of course, we could talk a ton about as well, but also opening ourselves up to. To experiencing the joy that we are searching for. Just experiencing that in the moment, you know, and we can hold. We can hold the pain and the suffering and all of that as well and feel joy at the same time. The paradox is very real. So opening ourselves up seems to be. Seems to be the theme. You.

You have been such a joy to learn from, such a joy to know. I'm so grateful to be connecting with you and collaborating with you. It's magic. We've been just dipping our toes into ayurvedic medicine, healthy habits, changing our relationship with. With ourselves, changing our relationship with our identity and what it means to be healthy and happy. And so this has been the get yout Life Back podcast, and we've been talking with Hadley and so be sure to check out her Instagram and her Facebook and her LinkedIn. Her handle is Happy, Healthy Hadley, and she also has a website, happyhealthyhadley.com and be sure to check back because this is going to just be an amazing opportunity for true life transformation. So Hadley, thank you. Thank you from coming to us all the way from Croatia.

Thank you so much Dr. Kane. This is amazing. I'm so excited to create more of these and to connect more with your audience.

Thank you.

Thank you.

The recording you just listened to consists of the personal opinions of Dr. Nicole Caine, a naturopathic doctor with a Master's in Clinical psychology. While these opinions are based upon literature, her counseling education, medical training, and clinical experience, this content should not be viewed as the definitive opinion on these subjects. Listening to this podcast is not a substitute for for any sort of medical, psychological or other form of treatment. If you are in a Crisis, please call 911-OR call the National Suicide Prevention Line at 1-800-273-8255. If you're in need of counseling, don't hesitate to make an appointment with a counselor in your area. Dr. Nicole Cain is so passionate about people getting their life back. If this resonates with you and you think this podcast would help someone you love love, please share it with them. Stay in the conversation with Dr. Nicole Cain about writing the next chapter of your life so that it plays out just the way you want it. Explore your options for working with her at www. Dr. Nicolecane.com that's Doctor-R Nicole N I C O L E Caine C-A-I n.com when you're there, be sure to take advantage of the free Anxiety Freedom One week challenge. We look forward to seeing you on the next episode of the GET your life Back podcast. Here's to your next chapter.

Sam.