85. Can Anxiety Cause Weird Sensations in the Body? Part 2 (Depression & Anger)

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Hi everybody. This is Dr. Nicole Kane and this is Hadley. And we are Holistic Inner Balance and we are here to help you learn how to be your own holistic wellness experts. And we've been talking about how anxiety can cause some pretty weird bodily sensations. And so if you've been wondering, could blank be caused by panic or could blank be caused by anxiety? The answers are within this podcast. And this is a series. And so this is episode two and we're going to be talking about depressive anxiety and anger anxiety. And this is going to have a really unique take to it. So the eight types of anxiety generally are unique in and of themselves. This is something that I've observed over a decade of working with anxiety and looking at how it can present differently, different people. And what Hadley is bringing to the table is going even deeper into how the depressive anxiety or the anger anxiety or whatever form of anxiety you have, how it's uniquely presenting. And so she will do this from a lens that is based in ayurvedic medicine. And so I think you're really going to like it. And another promise of this episode that you're going to be getting is actual actionable solutions that you can start using today. And so thank you so much for being here. And then stick around to the end because if you haven't figured out what your type or types of anxiety are, is at the end of the podcast we'll share with you how you can figure out what type or types of anxiety you're dealing with. So, Hadley, I'm super excited to learn from you today and to dive more into this topic.

Oh my gosh, I'm excited to learn from you. I love learning about all of these eight types of anxiety because I think it's really important. A lot of people don't even realize that they have anxiety. I mean, that's what I have found is that a lot of times people will not even realize that it is anxiety because they don't realize that there are different types of it. And so, and then when we bring in the doshas, the ayurvedic lens, it's like those eight types of anxiety have like three subsets. So it really ends up being like 24 types of anxiety of like how those all show up. And so we can utilize all of this to help us to work through it and to, you know, come through on the other side. So I'm really excited.

This is going to be a Zoom in podcast, and I want to zoom out first and just share why this matters. Like, really, why do I care? I'm anxious. Can't you just give me a sedative or a benzodiazepine? And that is what the standard medical profession does, is they endeavor to relieve suffering, and oftentimes that is the indication of disease through symptoms. And so they work to relieve symptoms. Right. But the. The point of what we're here to do in this series is to help you to understand what your symptoms are actually trying to do is they're trying to tell you how you're out of balance. And so if you have anxiety, we know from the neuroscience that your body is in a state of autonomic arousal, but there's more to the convers. And so what we're trying to do with this Zoom in is to help you create solutions that will actually really work. And so, for example, if your anxiety is showing up in your gut, we can give you all sorts of things that are anti anxiety, like propranolol is a pharmaceutical. It's a beta blocker that slows down your heart rate. Some people take that for panic attacks and anxiety. But if your anxiety isn't showing up in chest anxiety, if it's not showing up with heart palpitations, then that's not going to work for you. If it's showing up with gas and bloating, you need something that helps calm you but targets your gut.

Right.

So we talked about that in this previous episode. So go and listen to it. And it's the same thing. And so we're going to be talking about depressive anxiety and anger anxiety today and how they show up with respect to the dosha. So that while we're in this Zoom in, that you can actually start using strategies at work. And this is one of, as you said, Hadley, one of the most common misconceptions is that a person doesn't have anxiety. They'll say things like, oh, well, I'm stressed, but stress is. Your body doesn't care about the nomenclature. The physiology of stress is essentially the same. It's just level of intensity and where it's showing up. And then, of course, the why is always the million dollar question. And so I really wanted to, you know, just do a quick pause. What are we doing here? Why do we care about the nitty gritty? And then I'M excited to follow up with the Nitty Gritty itself.

Yeah, I love how you said your body doesn't actually care about the nomenclature because, yeah, it's like we can call. People will call the same physical sensation a different emotion, right? Like that people will call fear anger. So like the same person who's feeling the same exact emotion, maybe it's like a tightness in their chest. Like some people will call that fear, some people will call that anger. Or, you know, there have been, there have been studies on this and so we are kind of breaking it down more into physical sensations in your body as well as, you know, maybe how it shows up manifests in different ways emotionally, how anxiety might show up in different ways emotionally. And so I'm really excited to, to get into it.

So let's start with depressive anxiety, shall we?

Let's do it. Yeah.

I want to start with a definition. And so essentially, depression anxiety or depressive anxiety is anxiety symptoms mixed with depression symptoms. Pretty straightforward, right? And in the Diagnostic Statistical Manual, which is that great big book that psychiatrists and psychologists and counselors use to give you a mental health diagnosis to justify treatment and getting paid by your insurance company, is that they've diagnosed depressive anxiety as either major depressive disorder with anxious features or generalized anxiety disorder with depressed features, just depending on which one predominates. And I would encourage you, as you're listening to this is to just throw away the labels. Don't worry about what the label is, but rather listen to the messages that your body is giving you. And so signs that your body is out of balance in such a way that it's experiencing depressive anxiety may be those depression symptoms if you feel empty or hopeless, or if you're feeling really fatigued or difficulties with concentration, memory, thoughts of worthlessness or feelings of failure, loss of interest in activities and even thoughts of death or thoughts of self harm, those are all signs of depression. But with depression, depression, anxiety, we also have a predominating anxiety picture where there's worrying. Oftentimes there's a feeling of lack of control and we're thinking about the future and trying to problem solve. And so our thoughts can be really intrusive or racing. We also feel keyed up or on edge. We get these symptoms of maybe restlessness or trembling. Any way that your body tells you you're anxious would be categorized. If it has the depression feature with it is depressive anxiety. Is that. Do you have questions about that? As I'm saying that anything I'm missing that you could think of.

No, I think that makes total sense. And I'm just like putting it into the perspective of Ayurveda and it makes crystal clear sense with Ayurveda as well.

So let's zero in on that. And so how would Ayurveda explain. Explain this as I'm kind of like blending together the Venn diagram that is depressive anxiety.

Yeah. So, so typically when you, you know, if you were to Google this, this is the, like the blanket kind of terms or like the, the blanket explanation for depression specifically is going to be that it's a kapha. It's, it's a kapha thing. So we've talked. For those of you who don't know the doshas, go, we're not going to go into the doshas today, but go back and listen, if you, if you don't know about the doshas, the kapha is basically water and earth. And so it's like when that mixes together, it can feel like it can be like mud. Right? Like water and earth come together, make mud. So we feel stuck. And that's sort of kind of what depression feels like. Right? Is just like this, like stuckness, this helplessness, hopelessness. However, when we are thinking about how depression actually comes about, there aren't a ton of situations in our modern culture where it's going to just be purely a kapha, like symptom or purely a kapha disease. Because we, there is so much, there's so much other stuff happening. So we're not just sitting around and like lazing about and, you know, just like eating mangoes and fruit like coconuts and just kind of like, huh, you know, whatever, not really doing anything like, that's not really how this works. That might happen. If you were to, you know, go to like an island like, that doesn't have a whole lot of stimulation. There's not, maybe there's no Internet on the island, like that might happen there. I'm not saying that this can't happen, but in our modern culture, it's typical that it is not just kapha. It's typical that there is pitta or vata, which is more of that anxiety. The thing that's, that's driving the kapha, which is the, the depression. And, and so, so what happens is like, so let's say we have a lot of vata. Vata is the element of air and ether. So air and ether are like, you know, they buzz around. They're like up high. Things might be moving in really fast in like, lots of different directions. That's kind of how I think about vata. It's just like this movement, this lightness, this sense of ungroundedness potentially as well. Whereas kapha is a lot of groundedness, Vata is a lot of ungroundedness and movement and all of that. And then, and so what happens if you, if you have a lot of vata is the kapha will kind of come in to pacify it. It's like, oh, you're feeling all of this anxiety because you're on social media all day long and you have no boundaries with social media or with Netflix, with your family members or your friends or your work. You have no boundaries, like, and you're just kind of doing all these things all over the place. Okay, what I'm going to do, what Kapha says here is like, what I'm going to do is I'm going to come in and I'm going to protect you. And how I'm going to do that is I'm going to bring you down and I'm going to make you feel stuck and I'm going to make you come down to this space. So maybe you, you do that with certain activities, like just like binge watching, Netflix, not moving your body. Maybe you eat a lot of food to ground yourself down. We talked about that a little bit the last time with the gut anxiety. And so that's how kapha might come in to protect the vata that there's too much of. And so that's how we can kind of create this like anxious and then the depression comes in to protect us from all that fear and anxiety that's, that's happening. On top of any questions about that, before I go into the pitta, I.

Really resonate with that as a person. I feel like I live a life that's very vatai, where I'm like buzzing and creating and lots of ideas and too much stimulation and doom scrolling and thoughts going and writing content. And I have a kapha imbalance also where it's like I get so tired and I get so lethargic and it's like once I stop moving, it's so hard to get moving again. And then I can get really low and depressed and feel stuck and want to comfort eat. So this, this explanation really resonates with me because I'm not purely vata, but I'm also not purely kapha. I'm not purely anxious. I also tend to get sad. I get some depression symptoms too. And so this understanding of the vata is there and the kapha is trying to protect and balance out and pacify. So it's your body and its wisdom is trying to balance things out. But if we're not working on doing that deeper healing and listening to that messaging, then we may end up in a state of depressive anxiety or anxious depression with the vata kapha imbalance. So I love that. Thank you for that explanation.

Yeah, absolutely. And so. And we can talk about how to actually how to balance it in a way that is like resourcing and, and affirming rather than, rather than doing it in a way that is sort of what we tend to do, which is like the coping mechanisms that don't actually make us feel good. Right. Which is like the. All the things that we just talked about or other things. Like, I mean, alcohol is a great example of a depressant that brings us down when we're feeling anxious. And it's, you know, it's got that kapha or it's got that like, dull quality, which is a quality of kapha. So it's like that dulling quality. If there's like too much muchness, there's just too much. That's like a lot of vata. And so then that, that will dull it. Overeating will dull it. Over consumption of social media, over consumption of Netflix, over consumption of most things with dull the senses, which how quote unquote, helps to dull the anxiety. But, you know, then it kind of comes back. It's not, it's not, it doesn't do it, you know, long term. And it can actually make it worse. So then the, the pitta, when we bring pitta in, pitta is the element of fire and a little bit of that oily water quality as well. But pitta is primarily fire. So we can kind of think of it as the like, ambition drive. We'll go into this with anger, anxiety as well, because pitta does tend to have more anger as well. But I have a lot of pitta. I, I never really resonated with having a ton of anger. Although now I realize that some of my patterns were anger driven. I just wasn't identifying them as anger, but some of it. And we can talk about that later too. But so Pitta. Pitta is like the, you know, is the enneagram3. I'm gonna like achieve, achieve, achieve, achieve, achieve. And we can burn ourselves out, right? Like, that's what fire does, is it can burn us out. And that's when the kapha comes in and is like, I got you. I'm gonna ground you down. I'm going to bring in that water quality and like, douse the fire. So we push ourselves so hard all day long, and then we only, like, the only thing we have capacity for in the evening is what do you think? Netflix, Doom scrolling and eating food. Like that's what we want to do. If we are pushing ourselves all day long and doing things that we don't want to be doing and making ourselves, you know, crazy with all of the, like, the stuff that we're supposed to do and not giving ourselves any breaks, not giving ourselves what we need, not resourcing ourselves, then of course, of course the kapha is going to, going to come in. And that doesn't mean that we're lazy. Then. The thing with Pitta is a lot of times people will think that they have a lot of kapha in their constitution because they're like, I'm so lazy. I don't do all the things that I say I'm going to do. But really it's because they're pushing themselves so hard and they're not giving themselves what they need. And then the only thing that they have capacity for at the end of the day is to do that. Right. Or, or they've pushed themselves so hard for months and months and months that the only thing they have capacity for for the next, like, three weeks is to do that stuff. And they, they can't do anything else or they don't feel like they can do anything else. Right. So that doesn't mean. I actually don't really believe in laziness. Like, it's not really, like, usually, unless, again, we're on this, like, island that there's no social media, there's no, there's like, you're not doing, you're actually doing anything. Most of the time the like, quote unquote, laziness just comes from we're. We're doing too much and then we're burning ourselves out and then the kapha comes in.

Yeah, I was just gonna say this is like classic. What people would describe as adrenal burnout is they're like, oh, it's my adrenals. But it might not actually be your adrenals, which I could do a whole podcast about. Adrenal fatigue is not a real thing. We'll save that for another time.

Yeah, I'm excited about that.

But rather it could be like, you, you're just totally. You were pitta, pitta, pitta. Your kapha is trying to protect you, trying to cool off that fire and now you're in a pitta kapha state or maybe kapha got overz and now you're in a kapha state, right? Fully.

Yeah, totally. And you could have both vata and pizza going on because a lot of it is both. Right. Like we have this drive and we're kind of all over the place. So we could have both of those going on. And then kapha is again going to come in to try to like protect, to try to like soften. Right. Like earth and water, it's like this like mama dense energy that can, it's like all of all structures, everything is made from this like earth and water quality, which can be really life affirming and amazing. And it can also bring us down into like the mud if we're not doing it in a way that that feels good. So that's kind of how that works.

So depressive anxiety solutions. And so, you know, in holistic medicine we would talk about like getting to the root cause of what's out of balance. And so, you know, keeping the dosha in mind is huge because that's going to direct us to really good habits. It's going to direct us to how to eat, maybe proper herbs and supplements to take. But I would also make sure that you're doing functional laboratory testing, like your blood work, like looking at your iron, because iron deficiency anemia can look like kapha. You could just be very depleted and very exhausted and not have that energy, like even that feeling like I can't get up and like walk to the kitchen without running out of breath. Like that could be, that could be kapha, but it could also be iron. And so you want to do your basic testing and then if you have a ton of symptoms that are showing up in a particular, you know, we'll talk about endocrine anxiety in a future episode. But if you have a lot of endocrine symptoms, then you might want to be doing cortisol testing in addition to thyroid testing and sex hormone testing. But you know, using herbal medicine can be really, really effective for depressive anxiety. And I love doing it within the context of Ayurveda. And so let's say, Hadley, we have somebody, the first example that you gave, we have a vata predominant where kapha swooped in to try to protect us. And so now we have this anxious depression. What are we wanting to accomplish here? Oh yeah, because they're both cold.

They're both cold. Yes, yes. So yeah, when we bring in, when we want to balance both vata and kapha. So we want to start with the primary dosha. So the, the primary dosha that's happening here is the vata, right? It's not, it's not kapha and then vata. It's like the thing that's starting the.

Whole, the whole domino effect.

Domino effect, yes. Thank you. Yeah. Is the, is that vata is, is pushing it. And so we want to start with that. So, so behavior wise, we want to do like grounding things. So we want to ground ourselves down, but we could bring in some of the more kapha, pacifying grounding things, which sounds maybe a little bit counterintuitive, but like moving our B.O. in a mindful way can benefit both vata and kapha, right? It can. It. We're not doing like high intensity stuff because that can also aggravate vata, but rather we are doing like more mindful movement and that kind of thing to ground ourselves down. We can also do high intensity training, but we want to make sure that our nervous system is regulated before that because that can deplete us more and then cause more of the, the anxious depression. And so, so that's what I would say for like behavioral things. Same thing with food is we are going to want to have like, things that pacify vata but then can also pacify kapha. So like you said, we need things that are more warming because both kapha and vata are cold, whereas if you've got a lot of pizza going on, maybe you don't want like a ton of warming. We can talk about that. But, but vata and kava are both have both cold qualities. And so bringing in that warmth can be really, really helpful. And so for herbs, we want to bring in all of the warmth. We want to bring in warmth that isn't going to be like super hot, like pungent hot, because that can, that can actually stress out the nerves when it comes to vata, because vata is a little bit more delicate. So if it was just straight up kapha, it might just be like lots and lots of stuff, spice and heat. But with vata, we want to be a little bit more gentle. Does that make sense?

It definitely makes sense. So, like, eating jalapenos may not be the answer because it could be too spicy. Yeah, exactly.

But maybe putting a little bit of like a tiny bit of jalapeno in a dish that's not going to make it like super spicy, where you're going to burn yourself out, but make maybe having a little bit of heat that could be helpful for vata. But again, it's, it's all about like dosage and amount and all that kind of thing as well.

So an herb that comes to mind that it's good for anxiety. This herb is antidepressant, it's anti anxiety, it's useful for seasonal affective disorder. And it's been actually studied as a beneficial herb that is comparable with antidepressant therapy, especially if you have mild to moderate depression, maybe not severe, suicidal, extreme depression. But if it's just like that, depressive anxiety with the anxious features is. This herb is really good for that. It's been studied for that. And it also pacifies vata and it pacifies kapha. And the herb is called St. John's Wort. Oh yeah, that's a great one. It's an astringent. And so that helps with the kapha because it's that muddy, it's bitter, it's clear, it's light, it helps carry the energy upward while also being really grounding. And so it like kind of balances that vajakapha. And it's really, really good for sleep, depression and anxiety. And so I was thinking about hypericum or St. John's wort, as you were describing that.

Amazing. Yes. I love that.

Yeah.

And would you recommend taking it? How would you recommend taking it? Like, could you take it in a. Like, could you take it in milk? Would that be possible?

Oh, like golden milk. Yeah, you know, I love golden milk.

Yeah.

You can do St. John's Wort. Gaia. I have no affiliation with Gaia, but I love them. They make a little St. John's Wort capsule that you could take. It's not powdered, but it's like the extract in a capsule. So it's going to be dark colored and the inside is kind of liquidy. Or you can get it as a tincture and you could put the tincture in your golden milk. And so like dosing, if you have just a standard tincture, you could do like three big squeezes a day and your golden milk at nighttime, it's not going to stimulate you or cause insomnia. It could be like actually very calming. Or you could do a capsule. Just talk to your doctor first. A contraindication for St. John's Wort, though is if you are already taking an antidepressant, you can't take St. John's Wort in addition to an antidepressant because they both increase serotonin. The second contraindication is if you have bipolar disorder is that you don't you want to be really careful about anything that increases serotonin levels, like St. John's Wort. So, you know, talk to your doctor first. But generally speaking, this is a pretty wonderful balancing herb that can be used for depressive anxiety.

Nice. Awesome. Yeah. And the. Especially since it's increasing your serotonin levels, I'm thinking about, like grounding it with some of that milk because that will, that will create more balancing for vata as well.

I love that. And so what if someone has that picture picture, so they have that ambition, that drive. They're burning the candle at both ends. Kapha swooped in to try to help calm them. What would be a solution that you can. That you would recommend for that?

Yeah, so, so what happens with pitta, with, with that burnout feeling? And a lot of us have experienced that, right? Like this is like the age of burnout. And so, so a lot of times, a lot of times people who have a lot of pitta in their constitution actually feel that, like, that depressive anxiety, like very strongly because they have so much drive for it to be something else. So it's like, I don't want this. I want to feel a different way. I want to feel a different way. They're like pushing against that. And so they'll feel like they're suffering more than if they, you know, maybe had just more kapha or more even vata kapha. The, like the pittsa. The pittsikapha is like more like dissatisfied essentially with the, with the circumstance that they're in. So what we want to do is practice, first of all, self compassion. That's like, that's the biggest thing when it comes to pitta. And that's also the thing that pitta is like, oh my God, come on, you're gonna talk about self compassion. That's so dumb and so like, it's so like fluffy. And you know, I don't need that. I just need to. I need to get my stuff together. I just need to like, push through. Right. I need to have more self control or more willpower or whatever. That's actually not how any of this works. In order to create habit change, in order to create behavior change, the research shows that we need to have self compassion. It's going to be a lot easier when we can have that self compassion. So that's the, that's the first thing that's going to be really, really helpful for Pitta, Pitta, Kapha, which is this depressive anxiety, like, pattern. The other thing is what do. What do both Pitta and Kapha have in common. This one's a little. Maybe a little bit trickier.

What do they have in common? Yeah, I don't know. They're trying to help you, but obviously they're getting a little bit overzealous when we get these symptoms. What is, how are they trying to. What do they have in common?

So Pitta and Kapha both have the element of water in common, actually. So Pitta has a little bit of that water. Like I mentioned earlier, it's mostly fire. But Pitta also has this, like, quality of, like, oiliness. So if you've got. If you have, like, acne, a lot of times that's, it's like a hot, heated oiliness. It's like red, oily, like inflammation. Right. But there's this sense of oiliness. So what can be really helpful for Kapha and Pitta when we're thinking about foods and different things like that is having something that's more astringent that's going to suck up that water. A lot of times there's a little. There's just a little bit too much of that oiliness. Right. We're just kind of like, like sloshing around in the soup of, of our life. And so, so that can be really helpful, like, physically for Pitta and for Kapha as well, the astringency and then also bringing more of that, like, that lightness, because the water can kind of bog it down a little bit. And then also, of course, we want to bring in. We want to bring in more of the light, the, like, stimulation. It can be really helpful for Pitta to have like, like yin yoga, things that are just like, really low, like really stretchy, all of that kind of thing. But if we've got a lot alpha as well, bringing a little bit more movement can also be helpful. And it can also help with the pit of mind being a little bit more on board with it. So sometimes the pit of mind is like, I don't have time to just like, sit in a pose for that long. And so the pit of mind is like, well, I'm not going to do that. But if we can bring in a little bit more. A little bit more movement and a little bit more of that mindfulness, mindful movement, then the pit of mind is like, okay, this seems a little bit more worthwhile. So sometimes we need to, like, nudge the pit of mind a little bit. So it's not. We're not just forcing it, if that makes sense.

Yeah, yeah. Well. And especially, like, if you're listening to this and you are a pitta imbalance right now. And you're hearing that, you're like, oh, like, you know, that might actually be a cue that, oh, this is something that I need to maybe look at and reflect a little bit on.

So, Right.

Like noticing like what Hadley said, saying it's like, oh, I don't have time for this. No, just tell me what herb to take. Like, maybe the herb should be at the bottom of your list because maybe work that would be helpful to do. I'll give you an herb.

But yeah, right.

Really encourage you guys to do the habits, too. Yeah, that's like Hadley's jam is. If you haven't seen. She has like a whole program about habits, like lifestyle changes that you can check out in the show notes about it. There. There are a couple herbs that come to mind. And so it's hard to find herbs that balance pitta and kapha, because I feel like if you're going to cool off pitta, then you're going to worsen kapha, because it's cool. And if you're going to warm up kapha, then you're going to overheat pitta, because pitta is hot. But there are herbs, they're called tridosic, which means they balance out all three of them. Is the other word sativic?

Satvik.

Yeah, that's it.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

My white Midwestern pronunciation of that. So, but the. So the tri doshik, the herb that makes all three of them happy, that is also really good for lifting the mood when you're depressed. And it's a nervine, so it can help with anxiety, is go to cola. Her other name is centella, and this is just an awesome herb. It has an affinity for all of the tissues, so it's very healing for the body. And so if you've taken a lot of medications or if you've burned yourself out, if you feel like you're a little haggard from the journey that you've been on, is gotu kola might be great. Also has side benefit of more delicious nail and hair growth. And so that's super fun. But she's tridosia. Great for balancing it out. Same kind of dosing schedule as the hypericum we just talked about with the vata imbalance. One primarily. The other herb, though I was thinking of, that I would be remiss to not mention is shatavari or asparagus. And so shatavari will decrease pitta and pacify like an overzealous pitta, but she can increase kapha a little bit. But there is, there's always solutions for this. And so if you have an herb and you absolutely love it and you're noticing that you're not just like kapha, kapha, kapha or vata, vata, vata or pitta, pitta, pitta, and you have like a little blend of them, which most of us do, is that you can blend herbs together and make tinctures. And so if you love shatavari, which is like an aphrodisiac, mood boosting, anxiety calming, energizing, life giving, beautiful, delicious, wonderful herb, especially for women. And if you really want that herb, but you don't want to aggravate your kapha, is just mix a kapha pacifier in there. Something that's going to be more like Hadley said, like astringing something, maybe like a little warming. And so you can make your own tinctures. And we teach you all about that in the Ayurveda course. And so go and take that course because you're going to get like how to make your own recipes that are balancing for your particular dosha.

So yes, so the other thing is, yeah, the, the two tastes qualities that are going to be balancing for both pizza and kapha are going to be bitter and astringent. So the bitter and astringent, well, astringent is going to take, is going to suck that, the wateriness, the oiliness out. And then the bitterness is actually, is really helpful. It is both cooling and lightning. So it'll lighten up the kapha and it'll cool down the pitta. So what do we think of it like as bitter? It's like all bitter, like all greens. So if you've got a lot of pizza and kapha going on, greens are where it's at. You guys. I eat and I'm speaking of this from like my own perspective because I, my constitution is pitta and kapha. And so like my whole life has been trying to balance these two things. And so I eat a ton of greens and you know, I've worked my way up to that. I didn't start just eating like a ton of greens right from the beginning because they are really bitter and they're astringent, most of them or a lot of them. And, and so that bitter taste is going to be really, really helpful for both pitta and kapha. And also if you think of like greens and stuff, that's going to be lightning as well. And then Astringent is the other. Is the other piece that's gonna soak up. Soak up those things so you can bring more of those qualities into.

I love that. More greens. More greens.

Yeah.

So we've been talking about depressive anxiety and the way that it can show up. And so, you know, as you're noticing your symptoms, try to. Try to ask yourself, like, what might my body be trying to tell me? Is it telling me that I have an unmet need? Do I have an overabundance of something? Whether it's social media and it's making you have racing thoughts and it's making you very vata? Or do you feel like you've just completely burned yourself out and that you've been pushing, pushing, pushing, enneagram threeing too much? Or could it be that it's been a really long period of chronic illness and you just haven't been able to move or do anything? You know, your symptoms are here to try to tell you what, what healing can be done and how. And so depressive anxiety. Anything else about that you want to add, Hadley, before we move on?

Yeah, I would just say take stock of what in your life is actually, like, causing the vata and the pitta that's burning you out or that's. That's depleting you with vata. It's like, basically like you're being depleted. With pitta, you're being depleted, but it's because you're burning out and then being depleted.

So why is.

What is really, like, causing that depletion? Are you doing a lot of things in your life that you are forcing yourself to do? And how can you either shift, you know, the things that you're doing and do something different, or shift the way that you're thinking about those things so that it becomes something that you actually do want to be doing. Or maybe you, like, bring forth your. Why a little bit more of like, oh, yeah, this is actually like, what I want to be doing and bringing forth. That can be really helpful. Yeah, I would say, like, just not. Not forcing ourselves to do so many things that we don't want. So creating those healthy boundaries, like really asking yourself what brings you joy and doing more of that, that's going to be really, really helpful for balancing, obviously, the pitta and the. The vata, but also the kapha. Like, when we bring in joy, kapha automatically is lightened and is. Is. Is kind of uplifted, and serotonin levels are also uplifted when we bring in that joy. So Ask yourself what brings you joy and how can you actually do more of that and less of the things that. That deplete you?

Yeah. Thank you for mentioning that. It's like pursuing joy. Like. Yeah, it's. It's a good thing to pursue. Pursue joy.

Yeah.

It's not a bad thing.

It's. Yeah. And I think the other thing is, like, people. People are like, well, how can I be joyful in a world that is so horrible? Or like, you know, there's like, how can I be joyful when this is happening or when this, you know, whatever. I would say that you are worthy of joy regardless, and you deserve to feel joy even if other people are maybe not feeling joy. So that might. That's a whole nother. That's a whole nother episode that we could get into, but you deserve to feel joy.

Yes. Yes. So in the remaining time, I want to talk about anger. Anxiety.

Yeah.

And so anger. Anxiety. Anger is a very valid, natural human experience. I want to just say that just out the gate is I feel like. Of the emotions. I feel like people get a lot of grief about anger and frustration. And then in the. The flip side, I feel like some people are raised in a culture where anger is the only emotion that we have permission to have.

Yeah.

So wherever you are on that spectrum of I'm not allowed to be angry and anger is bad thing versus I am only allowed to be angry, and that's the only permission I've been given is to have that emotion. Let's talk about what it actually anger is. So anger can show up in lots of different ways, but for some people, signs that you're angry, maybe that you feel like you need to raise your voice, or you may find that your body is getting hot and your fists clench. You might find that you start sweating, your face may get red. You might find that you clench your jaw and that your tongue in your mouth gets. Gets really stiff and tight. You might find with this anger that you're restless, and you might find that you're pacing. You might feel your heart palpitating in your chest. And you may have impulses, whether the impulse is to hit yourself or to hit a wall or to say something that may be insulting. You may have an impulse to curse. You might find that you scowl or furrow your brows, and you may even have thoughts of violence. And so all of these are signs of anger. And anger is a very natural biological reaction to feelings of being out of control, feelings of being in danger, feelings of being invalidated, feelings that we need to protect ourselves or even somebody else. And it's also an imbalance in our doshas, which Hadley will tell us about. But. But when it comes to anger, it's really important to know what the anger is trying to do for you. And so if you're finding that you're losing your temper or you get really impatient with people or yourself, or that you have these antagonistic thoughts in your head, whether you're ruminating on something in the past and there's this thought of revenge in your mind, or you're so upset about what's happening in the present, politics or religion or any of those hot. That buttons or whatever's coming up is if you have the space, create the space. Even better is to start to ask yourself, what is this anger trying to do for me? What does this anger need me to know? And that will give you an invitation to actually do the deeper healing. You know, there's. There's all sorts of behavioral strategies, and we talk about anger management, we talk about taking deep breath, but anger is a response to something. It's a protective mechanism to something. And so we're here to talk about how anger anxiety can show up. And so we have the anger we've been talking about, and it's mixed with anxiety. And oftentimes anxiety comes out as anger. You know, a scared dog may bite. We could have a panic attack and just want to scream at everybody. I've seen children who are just in sheer terror. It looks like anger, but they're just frightened. And so let's talk about what might be happening in terms of our doshas when we have anger. Hadley, can you jump in on that?

Yeah. Well, and the. The other thing that can happen is that we feel anger, and it comes out as anxiety or fear or, you know, and. And a lot of times, again, that's, like, cultural. And you mentioned that, like, in some cultures, it's only okay to feel anger. In some cultures, it's only okay to not feel anger. And I want to also say that, like, sometimes in the same culture, for some people, it is like, my experience growing up was that women were not supposed to feel anger, but men were supposed to feel anger. And not, like, sadness or fear or anything like that. That's the only emotion that they. They are supposed to feel. So, like, this is important to recognize. Is that, like, what is your go to? Because I, like I mentioned earlier, I have a lot of pizza in my constitution, and there is a lot of fire in that. And so what can happen is if you don't feel like you're supposed to feel anger. I did not think that I felt a lot of anger. I felt, I thought that I felt.

Felt.

You know, I would feel sadness or I would feel anxiety, stress. I would, oh, this was one. I would always say, I'm so stressed. And I. This is something that I even realized like less than a year ago, there was a situation that was happening where it was happening like over and over again. And I was like, I am so stressed out. And it was, you know, showing up in my body. It was like a lump in my throat and, and other, other symptoms as well. But the lump in my throat was really like huge. And I realized that the lump in my throat kept occurring throughout my life. And I thought of it as stress or sadness because like, I would like cry, but it was really anger. It was anger and I wasn't allowed to feel anger. And so I would, it would, I would label it as sadness or, you know, and the lump in my throat was like, I need to set a boundary. I need to say something about this, right? And I wasn't allowing myself to. And so, so that can happen, especially if we are. Feel like we're not allowed to feel anger. And what I would say is happening there is, there's a lot of pitta, which is that fire, but we are trying to. To snuff it out with either kapha or vata. So like kapha would be the more like sadness, feeling the grief or the, the crying, that kind of thing. And the vata would be more like the fear, anxiety being like, oh, I'm just stressed. Which stress can also be a pitta thing. But like a lot of times that we say we're stressed when we're really angry or frustrated or annoyed or irritated, it so that, that can happen. Then the other piece of it is like we might feel this kapha feeling of sadness. And we don't feel like we're supposed like, so this is, this happens for a lot of like men and it's not just men, but. But that, that's common. So men can, you know, it's like, oh, men are only supposed to feel anger or power or whatever. And they're not supposed to feel these like touchy feely feelings like, like sadness or, or fear, especially fear. So like kapha is the sadness. And then we put that layer of pitta on top of that, which is the anger or the beer is vata over here. And then we put the pitta fire on top of that so it just comes out and so. So, yeah, so that's kind of what happens with the doshas specifically. Does that make sense?

Absolutely. I love that you're kind of talking about how, like, the vata may snuff out the fire or attempt to by adding fear.

Yeah.

And the kapha may try to snuff it out by adding a little bit of sadness. And so it's like, is it just straight fire? Does it feel like kind of fire with the vata, that, like, fear component, which is anger, anxiety, with that, like, racing thoughts, like quickness. Right. Restlessness, distractibility? Or is it with that kapha, where it's just like, I'm sad, I'm heavy, I'm lethargic, but I'm also, like, so stressed and agitated, but, like, paralyzed, stuck.

Right. Yeah, yeah, it's.

And.

And, yeah, that's. So identifying those things can be really helpful. And. And finally identifying that, oh, this is anger, or, oh, this is not anger. This is actually sadness or, you know, whatever the actual thing under is. We want to more target that and ask ourselves, like you said, what is this actually telling you about your life? That needs to be addressed, because that's what emotions are for. Like, we don't have to look at emotions as this thing that we're not supposed to feel, or, you know, it's bad to feel these things. We can look at them as, like, they're just little teachers showing us what we need to do, what we need to do next, kind of showing us the next step in our path. So for me, the anger that was showing up more as sadness or stress really was what it was. It was showing up as stress was, oh, I actually need to set a boundary and tell someone no. And you. That's typically what happens for me is anger shows up when I am overextending myself in some way, or not even overextending, but, like, doing stuff that I really don't like to do, or, you know, continually putting myself in a situation where, like, I feel resentful and only I can actually change that. So I, you know, I can't actually feel resentful with someone unless I'm doing something that I'm not in integrity with. And so that's where I'm like, oh, anger. Thank you for letting me know that that's happening. Does that resonate for you at all?

I'm thinking about homeopathy for this, and there's two remedies that come to mind with this, like, sense of perfectionism, this sense of duty, this feeling like, we have to extend ourselves the extra mile. And so, you know, we have that pittness of like, overextending ourselves. And then we have it showing up. This throat thing, this lump in the throat that you're describing, where there's this amount, this element of suppression that can come from that. And so when we have these symptoms of, like, I'm resentful, it's. I have to set a boundary which can feel like an emotional. An attachment break or like a disconnection from somebody.

Yeah.

Plus I'm suppressing, plus I have this grief, plus I have this lump in my throat, plus I have this tendency to burn myself out. Is these two remedies that come to mind that might be really good for anger. Anxiety that's showing up in one of the three ways. Vata, pittacapha or a blend. Right. Is Ignatia and Nat Mer. And. And Ignatia tends to have that lump in the throat. It tends to have that sense of duty and perfectionism. They tend to hold on to their emotions, whether it's coming out in, like, anxious anger or sad anger. But oftentimes they'll like, start crying and they think that they're depressed only when it's other stuff all bundled in together. And Ignatia, you may need that if you also tend to want to be alone with your emotions. These people will, like, go and like, try to get themselves together before they come out and talk about it or get support. And then natural is slightly different. Where with Natramur, I see a little bit more of that hatred and resentment. It can look very much like Ignatia, but there's a little bit more of this hatred and resentment that can come up with like, I've been working, working, working for you, and you let me down and you didn't hold up your end of the bargain. And now 15 years later, I'm still angry about it. And if I saw you get hit by a car, good riddance. Yeah.

It's the martyr.

It's the martyr. It's totally the martyr archetype. With this anger that's like this hatred flavor. Right? It's like. So Ignatia is a little bit less hate. There's less hate. I see. So if you're listening to this and you have. You have the lump in the throat, the perfectionism, you know, all of this that we're talking about. But if you have that, the extra little flavor of like, ask yourself if that person that you're angry with, if they got hit by a car right now, how would you feel about it? Really be Honest with yourself. Because if you're like, yeah, good. Good riddance. They deserved it. Karma's a bitch, then. It might be more of an enamer picture than an Ignatia picture. But homeopathy can help a lot with these. The way the doshas are presenting can give us information about remedies that might work.

Yeah, well. And I would even say, even if you don't feel like you're. Even if you're like, oh, I would never think that. Ye. It's like, okay, but are you. Do you actually resent that person? Because, you know, a lot of times we overextend ourselves thinking that we're going to get something from someone else. We have an expectation. And so, you know, when we actually are like, oh, I can only control myself. I'm going to actually, like, set a boundary of, like. And it doesn't even setting a boundary. I like, like, you mentioned that sometimes that can feel like a disconnect, like a. Like a separation of yourself from another person. It doesn't necessarily need to be that. Sometimes it can be. Sometimes it's like, yeah, we're not doing this anymore. But setting a boundary can also look like, oh, how do we shift this so that it's something that I actually enjoy too? Right. So, like, the classic example is. I'll use my mom as an example. I don't think she'll mind. Is like, we used to all come together for, like, you know, family dinners or. Or like, for the holidays. We would all come and stay in her home, and she would make all of the food. She would do all of the things. She would, you know, whatever. And this is, I think, a classic thing for a lot of moms in general and then feel, like, pretty stressed about it, like, anxious about it. Maybe there's that flavor of resentment as well. Even if you are like, no, I don't feel that way. There might be a little bit a hint of it. So be honest with yourself there. And it's because you're doing all of the things. So what can happen then is how does it. How does it work for her? For her, too? And now what we've done is, is we all bring food. Like, we all bring different types of food to the table rather than her doing all of the things herself. And so. And, you know, it works. It works better now because we all have our own places and stuff that we stay in, and we can bring our own foods. But that is something that worked better for her and that she didn't separate herself from us. But it was a boundary of rearrangement. It rearranged so that it worked for her, and it works for us too. Like, we're happy to do that too, and pull our own weight. And so now everyone feels good about the arrangement, so we can shift our arrangement as well for anger.

I really like that. I think the word boundary can create this, like, inadvertent, like, sense of blocking ourselves from other people. Like, I'm putting up a boundary. I'm putting. Yeah. And that's often the opposite of what we want is we want closeness of relationship, but it has to feel good for us as well as them. We don't want to be the martyr in order to have closeness. So another way that I like wording it is, well, what are my personal limits and what are your personal limits? So for your mom, like, she shouldn't have to cook all of the things.

Right.

And you shouldn't have to eat all of the things.

Yeah. Right.

How can we create new limits for each other and support each other and, like, as you said, kind of reorganize it, and I really like that. So sometimes it's got about. It's got to be about creativity and.

Yeah, yeah. Thinking about it as rearranging expectations can sometimes be really helpful rather than being like, well, I'm not willing to do this, so now you have to. You have to rearrange yourself for me. Sometimes that can feel like, selfish or like, we don't want to do that. We don't want to put that on someone else. So how can we get creative with the other person so that it can feel more like a rearrangement together?

Yeah. I love that. I think that's exciting. That's really. It feels really empowering and exciting, which is what we're all about here, is it doesn't have to be like, I'm bad. I have to suppress myself and stop that. But, like, how can I feel really good for me and rearrange and balance, and then everyone's happy. There is one herb that I do want to mention for just, like, straight up pitta. Like. Yeah, because.

Because really, anger is mostly pitta. Yeah.

Yeah. And there's a really good herb, and this herb is. Is anti anxiety. Antidepressant. You can take it orally, but if you're on medications and you can't take it orally or if we're talking about, like, a little kiddo and you're don't want to give them anything orally yet is. Lavender flower is just wonderful.

Yes.

Like the sigh of happiness. Like, I have all.

I have, like, you know, I have.

All my oils here and you know, lavender flower has been studied in double blind studies and it's been found to be effective for both depression and anxiety. And it's great for, especially if your symptoms are very pitta based and so you can apply it topically. We talk about essential oils in our content. So, you know, take a peek in some of the other blogs and stuff we have because we dig more into that. But I love Lavella. If you want to take it orally, you want to get it from a really good brand like Wise Woman Herbals, and you want the flower. There's a difference between Lavella flower tincture and the essential oil. If you want to take lavender essential oil, then use that topically. Don't take it internally. Some companies say it's fine to take internally, but that's silly. That's like drinking juice out of a, like by trying to bite a hole in the orange. Like, don't bite the hole. Just don't do that. Just, just get the juice. So get the lavender flower in the tincture or in the tea. You know, lavender tea is really good and that can be good, but try to do it as if you're a pitta. Try to do it as like a nice cool iced tea that might be refreshing, but that's a great hack for anger, anxiety. That's pitta based.

Yes. I love it. What about rose? When you said lavender, I was like.

I love that rose. It's interesting you mentioned rose. It's like you're in my brain. So I did this whole, whole study and I was like, what is the pathophysiology of how these plants are working and why would an essential oil actually work? Does it work? How does it work? And so I did a ton of research. I was scouring PubMed and I was looking at the clinical studies and all of the studies that I was finding was on rose and lavender. Yeah. And they both were very, very promising in their amazing clinical usefulness as helping with depression, anxiety, Anxiety and anger.

Yeah. Yeah. Pitta is all about the florals.

Like, yeah, thanks for mentioning rose. I often don't include her in my, my description, so it was really good. Anything else about anger, anxiety before we finish up today?

I know we didn't talk a ton about like different types of foods and behaviors and stuff, but I think it really comes down to that. Like, what is your anger actually telling you? And I think that's kind of the, that's the takeaway. Here.

Yeah. Yeah. What is your anger telling you? And so free association journal. Just like when you're feeling angry, just like, get out a piece of paper and a pencil, get out your device, type it on your device, whatever you can, and just like barf out all of the things and see what your anger is trying to tell you.

Yeah. What new. What new rearrangements do you need to make, essentially, is like the. The. The question to ask yourself, like, okay, what is the anger telling me that I need to change in my life.

Awesome. Thank you so much, Hadley. This has been great. Yes.

Amazing. Thank you everyone for listening. We'll talk to you soon.

Stay tuned. Yes, we're going to be talking about endocrine anxiety, trauma anxiety, neurological anxiety, and thought anxiety. And then we have the past episode of gut anxiety and chest anxiety. And then of course, today we talked about depressive anxiety and anger anxiety. If you haven't heard, there are eight types of anxiety. And so learn about what type or types of anxiety you are dealing with so that you can zero in on solutions that get you results the fastest by going to drnicolecane.com and then there's a button right there that says anxiety Quiz. It's free. And then this podcast, this series is really going to give you the flavor of the Ayurveda that Hadley uniquely brings to the table. So make sure to take that quiz, come back to this podcast, and we're going to be giving you hacks. You're going to get signed up to an email list. I promise we won't spam you. There's going to be really great information in there. And then you can start feeling like yourself again. Like, asap. Yes.

Amazing.

Awesome. Thanks, everyone. See you soon.

Bye.

The recording you just listened to consists of the personal opinions of Dr. Nicole Cain, a naturopathic doctor with a master's in clinical psychology, and happy, healthy Hadley, an Ayurveda expert with a master's in health behavior and health education. While these appearances opinions are based upon literature, counseling education, medical training, and clinical experience, this content should not be viewed as the definitive opinion on these subjects. Listening to this podcast is not a substitute for any sort of medical, psychological, or other form of treatment. If you are in a Crisis, please call 911 or call the National Suicide Prevention Line at 1-1-800-273-8255. If you are in need of counseling, don't hesitate to make an appointment with a counselor in your area. Dr. Nicole and Hadley are passionate about you becoming the expert of your own emotional and physical well being. If this resonates with you and you think this podcast would help someone you love, please share it with them. We look forward to seeing you on the next episode of the Holistic Inner Balance Podcast.

Sam.