99. Overwhelmed by Supplements? Here’s What You Should Know

Welcome to the Holistic Inner Balance podcast with Dr. Nicole Cain and Happy Healthy Hadley.

Your go to resource for natural mental health and wellness strategies so that you can become the expert of your own emotional and physical well being.

Merging modern science with ancient wisdom. Hello, welcome back to the Holistic Inner Balance podcast. I am Happy Healthy hadley and I'm Dr. Nicole and we are here today to talk about what to do when you're really confused about should I take supplements, should I take herbs, should I do lifestyle changes, habit changes, like, what do I actually start with? Because a lot of times people are like, okay, like there's so much out there. And this was something that I used to be so frustrated by, was like, where do I even start?

Start?

So we're going to talk about where to start and kind of the step by step for how to actually take stock of what's going on in your body and move forward from there.

Yeah. So if you're feeling overwhelmed, if you've taken hundreds of supplements and done all of the things, this is definitely going to be the conversation for you.

Yes. If you've tried all of the herbs, all the supplements, all of the like, you know, detoxes, meal plans, whatever it might be, we're gonna kind of break it down for you so that you actually start with something that is the most effective and then build on from there.

So this format that we're going to walk you through is something that is called the therapeutic order, which is the foundation of how a naturopathic physician or a holistic physician kind of looks at health in terms of what needs healing and how do we help somebody to heal themselves. And we're going to go through these step by step. But let's outline it together first. Does that sound okay, Hans?

Yes, please do.

So that first step is addressing acute concerns. So if you're taking notes, write down, address acute concerns. The second step is giving the body what it needs. Step three is removing obstacles to cure. Step four is we're going to teach you about tonification of mind, body and nervous system. Step five is structural integrity. And then the last step is addressing or suppressing symptoms. And so it's going to be a wild ride. But this is the outline that you can think of with everything. If your kid has a flu or if you get migraines or the person next to you is getting panic attacks, this is the scaffold that's going to help you get better results more efficiently and more quickly without having to spend thousands of dollars on spray and pray testing. And the Pill for an ill model.

Oh my gosh. I love the spray and pray testing. I don't know that I've heard you say that one before. That's so good.

Yeah, that one's. That's a little secret I've been keeping in my back pocket.

I love it. For some reason it reminds me of like a skunk or something sprayed. So don't be, don't get a skunk spraying you.

And that's happened to all of the, like, we just feel like it's like a fire hose to the face. And it can be really expensive to order all those functional tests.

Totally. Yes. Yes. Okay, so let's start with this. Acute. What was it called? Acute testing.

Address acute concerns.

Yes. Okay.

So the difference between addressing acute concerns and just managing symptoms is you always want to start with the thing that's on the top of the list in terms of importance. And that means that if your body is giving you a symptom, and that symptom is really, really loud and it's overshadowing everything else, you need to start there first. And this could be if you have the eight types of anxiety, and of those eight types of anxiety, you feel all of them. You get chest anxiety, gut anxiety, you get neurological anxiety, you feel depressed and, and angry, and you have trauma flashbacks. Like maybe you have all of them. But you want to look at what's on the top first. And you're going to address that first, secondarily is maybe you have something more critical going on. Hadley and I were just talking about maybe you have anxiety, but your blood sugars are through the roof. You want to start with the most health compromising or the most severe, the most problematic or most dangerous thing first and remove that in order to get out of the way. And so I was kind of thinking about that in some of my patients experiences where, you know, they come in and we make a list of all of the concerns that they have and we have to really focus on correcting that.

So.

Good.

Yeah. I'm just thinking about how a lot of times we will. We don't know exactly where to start when we have so many most. Like if you have one thing going on, that's kind of an issue for you. You probably have multiple things going on. Like that's, that's kind of the nature of the beast, because our minds and our bodies are totally interconnected and we can't actually, you know, separate them into these two different buckets because they're, they're affecting each other all the time at all moments of the day. And so we've got, we usually, you know, have multiple things going on in the mind and the body. If we have one thing going on, it's like, you know, becomes the perfect storm. But I love that you're saying, like, okay, the one that we have to address first is just the one that's the most severe, the most intense, the one that's, that's causing the most pain, suffering, all of that. So I think that's a really good rule of thumb.

So when you have a client come in and see you, Hadley, how do you help them do that process? Because I know that you have people and they're coming in and they want to change their life and they want to change their habits. And sometimes that involves diet or exercise or supplements or testing. And so how, when you're looking at all of their symptoms, do you, in particular, with your philosophy of Ayurveda, how do you pick out the main thing?

Yeah, that's a really good question. So first of all, if there's something that's super, super severe that needs, like, medical care, I can't do that. So I'm always like, you gotta go figure that out with your doctor first. Same with, same with, like, if they need therapy, because that's not what I do either. And so sometimes, well, a lot of the time people will do both therapy and they'll do my program or they'll do, they'll be working with like a naturopathic doctor or something, and they'll also do my, my program. So that's the first thing is like, okay, we got to get like the, the very severe things under control because I don't deal with the like, super severe things because, you know, I can't prescribe medication. I'm, I'm not as well versed in like herbs and supplements and stuff. I'm more the lifestyle side of things. But then once we've got those things kind of like, and we could, we can do this both at the same time too. So don't think like, well, I have to do the only. This thing first and like, wait on all of the stuff. Because I think a lot of times we think, okay, so they told me this first step to do. Now I have to do this first step. And, you know, maybe it's, maybe it's like a course of like antibiotics or something. And you're like, okay, now I have to wait two weeks until I actually start any of the other things, right? And so that's not necessary. You can start doing the Lifestyle things as well, which I think is really cool and really important. And something that Dr. Kane and I were talking about before this call is a lot of times we think, you know, we can just. We're in this pill for an ill model where we think, well, I don't want to necessarily take, you know, pharmaceuticals, but I want to be able to, you know, fix this problem. So I'm just going to go to herbs and supplements. And we think that herbs and supplements are going to just, you know, fix the concern. But we won't have as many of the side effects as the pharmaceuticals, which is true in a lot of cases. And we have to have the. We have to have the underlying health and wellness and lifestyle that we need in order for that stuff to actually work. Because if we have, you know, if we have gut health issues that aren't able to absorb things, then we're, you know, taking a supplement or an herb that can't be absorbed into the body because we have gut health issues. Like, that's going to, you know, that's just not going to work. And there are other, other examples of that too. If our nervous system is completely dysregulated because we are. We have like a really stressful life and we aren't doing anything to emotionally process and, you know, create more emotional agility, which we talked about in a previous episode, then we're not going to be able to do things. So what I do is I have three pill of kind of what I work with with my clients. The first pillar is foundational health habits. So they're the health habits that everyone pretty much needs. And we, and we tweak them based on like, the, the type of person, but they're like the foundational health habits that are like every person with a human body needs these health habits in order to really just like, function in life. And most of us don't have these consist. So a lot of times I say, like, my program is like, how to, like adulting one on one, because we're not taught these things. Like, we're not taught the foundational health habits. And so that's the first pillar. And then the second pillar is our relationship with our bodies and with food and our ecosystem and everything. And that is basically allowing us to actually discern what our bodies are telling us. So if we don't have the foundational health habits, sometimes it's really hard to actually even be able to tap into our bodies. And the foundational health habits include, like, getting enough sleep, pooping, moving our bodies so that we can feel like we are embodied and. And that kind of thing. So there are. There are a few more, but that's kind of the gist of the foundational health habits. Then we can focus on what is my body even telling me? Because if we're constipated, it's really hard to tell if we're hungry or if we're full. If we're not getting enough sleep, it's really hard to tell what our bodies are telling us in any time. So that's the second piece. The third pillar is then going to be nervous system regulation and emotional processing. And what I have found is that it's really hard to do that work if you don't already have a sense of what's going on in your body and what's going on in the emotional or the physical sensations that arise with your emotions. So we do that part third. So I guess what I'm saying is the very first part for all of this is the foundational health habits, then the second, and then the third.

So when we're starting with addressing acute concerns, what I kind of hear you saying is that we have to have our ducks in a row and sort of understanding the rhythms of our bodies and the information that our bodies are giving us. And then with that information, we're going to have a lot more clarity on where to start. And so if it's something that's an emergency situation, then of course, like seeing like either a therapist or a doctor or, you know, somebody who can specialize in that acute concern. But then when you're trying to figure out, like, all of these general symptoms and everything feels acute, is once you have those three pillars really put into place, the body is going to be giving you information and you can convert that information into actionable steps. Exactly. So the three pillars, just to summarize back is one is those foundational health habits like sleeping, pooping, movement, nutrition, et cetera. The second pillar is that relationship with the body, food, your ecosystem. And then that third pillar is emotional and nervous system regulation. And so this is really like nourishing the body and then gathering that data from the body so that you can then be thoughtful about, well, what are my symptoms telling me is an unmet need so that I can meet that need. Right, exactly.

And that gives us the data to be able to then use, like, the herbs and the supplements and all of that kind of thing. Because when we start with the herbs and supplements, we might find, okay, I'm taking this supplement, but it's not working. But it's really because, you know, you're not sleeping enough or, you know, it's really. And if you were sleeping enough, maybe it would work, you know. So all of those foundational health habits are so crucial. Crucial when we're taking herbs and supplements as well.

So that's a good segue into the giving the body what it needs, which is step two. So we kind of, we're getting that nice foundation. We're creating this relationship with our body. We're looking at our symptoms from a different philosophy instead of as the problem. We're looking at them as data about what needs healing and how. And then the second step is giving the body what it needs. And those three pillars are really foundational for that. And so if your body isn't getting everything that it needs, some of those needs can be met with supplementation. But really, if you can make those changes with your lifestyle and with habits, that's going to save you a lot of palliative care. And it's also going to save you money where you're not having to spend a ton of your cash finding pills at a store that then you have to take for the rest of your life. So I actually love to talk a little bit more about this. What is it that our bodies need? Let's get creative with that.

Yeah, well, and I just want to say, like, you would not believe the amount of money that my clients start saving on supplements because they're like, I thought I had to take all these supplements and now I feel like, amazing. And I, you know, I'm getting a lot of the nutrients that I need from food and all of that kind of thing. And they're like, wow, like, I'm saving like hundreds of dollars a month from supplements and herbs. And, you know, because a of people are in. In that realm rather than like, you know, pharmaceutical medication. But, you know, they save money on that stuff too. But yeah, so it really does make a huge difference.

I have a client that came to me because he was wanting to taper off of his benzodiazepine. And so for those who are listening, benzodiazepine is a medication that's often prescribed for anxiety or insomnia, fear of flying, seizures. And so that's like Xanax or Valium or Klonopin. Those are all benzos. And this person was taking Xanax and he discovered it because it helped him not be so anxious, flying. And then he was like, oh, I feel so calm and great. I'm going to take this and see what else it can help? And he found that he was needing it more and more and more the longer that he took it. And it wasn't working as well as it used to, so he was taking it more frequently. And he found himself kind of in this, this landslide of rebound symptoms. And then intra dose withdrawal where he would take a dose, feel good for a couple of hours, his body would almost like boomerang in the opposite direction. So then he was wanting to take it more. Right. So he came to me, Hadley, and he was taking 26 different pills in the morning. He was taking an equal number of those pills in the lunchtime hour. He was taking a handful of pills in the afternoon. And then all of the things that he was taking at night in order to go to sleep. It was just absolutely amazing. I included his case into my benzodiazepine course and we had to make the font really small to fit all of his supplements into one slide because he was taking so many.

Wow.

He's like, I'm still anxious and I am spending tons of money, thousands of dollars a month on supplements and, oh, and I have no appetite. And I'm like, well, yeah, your gut's filled with like gelatin capsules. How could you possibly eat? And so if you're listening to this and you really resonate, this is exactly why we want to address acute concerns. First, make sure we're giving the body what it needs. And then that third one we'll get to in a moment, like, he definitely had an obstacle to cure. But instead of going straight for the supplements, which we'll talk about, like, when do I take an herb, when do I take a vitamin? We got you. But let's look at what the body needs. And so in, in that moment, if, if we had met, or he'd have met you had when he was anxious and flying, what could that data be? So, oh my gosh, what is his body telling him in that moment? You need Xanax.

Right, Right. Well, okay, so. So all of the things that you mentioned with, like why you would take a benzo diazepine is all vata. Like, it's fear of flying, it's anxiety, it's seizures, it's all of the things that are the vata dosha. If you don't know, you know, if you're just new to the podcast, welcome. And if you want to know more about vata, we've got tons of episodes about the different doshas, the mind, body constitutions in Ayurveda. But vata is basically like the element of air and space. And so all of that is very, there's lots of movement, lots of the, the qualities are like lightness, movement, all of that kind of thing. And so fear is a really big vata symptom. So if you have a strong fear of flying, you want to do basically what's opposite of vata. So what's opposite of light and mobile and dry and you know, can be, can be like a tornado in your mind. And so what do we want to do is we want to really regulate the nervous system. And so there are lots of different practices that we can do, like in the moment, which sometimes are more or less effective, especially if we haven't been doing things outside of just the moment of like, oh my God, I'm panicking on a flight, which I know that you have also experienced as well, Dr. Kane. And we've talked about this on a previous episode of Traveling and kind of what to do when you're traveling, but doing practices like nervous system regulation practices and doing thing, lifestyle things to regulate your nervous system throughout your, throughout your day, like your everyday life, not just like, you know, the couple days leading up to the flight or just on the flight that's going to make such a huge difference for you to, to balance your vata, to kind of calm that, that air. Like, like, I sometimes think of it as like a buzziness, like a, an out of control buzziness that kind of happens.

Yeah. So his body needed grounding, his nervous system needed grounding.

Yes. Yep, we got it. We got to bring it down. It's all like up in the air. We got to bring it down into the body.

So ways to ground, ways to bring it down. So, you know, giving the body what it needs to ground it. And so some things that come to mind for me would be getting outside and getting my bare feet on, literally grounding, getting on the ground, feet in the grass or on the dirt and being in nature. A lot of people love forest bathing where they can like commune with the trees, go outside. You know, there's a lot of. They're doing a lot of thermography studies where they'll do a thermograph of somebody when they're free forest bathing. And then they'll do it and they'll look at blood flow after they've been outside in nature. And there's objective changes that can happen as a result of that earthing and grounding behavior. What else would you do if, if he'd had met you, you know, before these thousands of dollars of Supplements and Xanax. What else would you have done to help him? His unique body needed grounding. What would you have done?

Right, yeah, so I would have also focused on, well, I would have definitely focused on lots of different practices of, of actually like putting your hands on your body. We've talked about this before of like self massage, therapeutic self massage. So you can check out that episode too. That would be huge because that's really, really important for actually regulating the nervous system. And when we think about grounding down, a lot of times we're in our minds, we're just like, you know, spinning around in our minds and even if we just like, we don't even have to like do a full body massage, but even if you just put one hand on one shoulder, you just automatically feel like, oh yeah, I'm here in my body. Right. So, so practices like that with, with physical touch is going to be really important. And then I would also focus on.

Food.

Vata balancing food and things that are going to be really nourishing for the body, you know, depends on if he has, you know, other things, other doshik imbalances with, with that as well. But food that's going to be really nourishing. Lots of, you know, healthy fats, things that are kind of, that are warm and wet is kind of the name of the game for vata. So like cooking, cooking your foods, not eating, you know, a bunch of like raw crunchy foods that are filled with air because that impacts your gut health and then that impacts, you know, your gut brain connection. And Ayurveda knew this thousands of years ago, which is just so cool. And then practices for grounding that might be helpful for like exercise wise are going to be things that are more stability focused. So you know, even like weightlifting can be really grounding and you know, not, we're not doing like, you know, super fast like circuit training though that's really helpful for most people too. You know, that's beside the point. But bringing in some, some sort of like weightlifting that's like slow stability, like balancing, that kind of thing is also incredibly grounding for the nervous system. So I'd bring in, you know, a few of those different things, but I would probably start with hands on the body.

Yeah, I think that would be brilliant. And I like what you're saying with the food. You know, when we go to airports, oftentimes airport food is going to be things like bagels which are dry and airy and it's going to be things that are really high in sodium and you know you're gonna find caffeine. Like, you go and you get your Starbucks coffee from the airport. And so just like little hacks that might help Tim.

And the plane itself, like, the humidity on the plane is like 20 humidity. And like we've thrive at 50. Like humans thrive at like 50 humidity. Yeah, it's 20 or lower on most planes.

Yeah. Yes. And your plummeting, you're like plummeting 30, 000ft through the.

Yeah, you're just like, just like going so fast and so high in the air. Yeah. It's all about.

So what else's body needs is. You know, I like what you were talking about earlier with one of the pillars is pooping is vata often can be more constipated. Right. You're dry. And so if you know you're going to be traveling, is using diet and supplements to actually help you poop to make sure that you don't get constipated when you're traveling can be really helpful. Yeah.

And a lot of times, a lot of times we think that we just need more fiber if we are constipated. But sometimes that can actually be like drying for the colon and for the intestines, and then that makes you more constipated.

Yeah.

And so we want to actually bring in that. The oiliness as well. So we do definitely want fiber, but we also want to bring in like the oily oiliness. Cooked vegetables. Vegetables. Cooked foods, that kind of thing as well. To help things like slide through your intestines.

Yeah, yeah. And I had a teacher who was like, if you need to. This is a time for herbs.

Yeah.

You know, when talking about, well, what supplements should I take? Or should I take vitamins or herbs? Herbs can be really good for this. And so if your body needs to poop and it needs to poop because you're in a vata state, like my client, this is just one example. We could do like a million episodes on the different variations.

Totally.

But then using herbs that are going to help with digestion, like a carminative, but herbs that are also very grounding and vata pacifying could be really good for that. And so, you know, I'm thinking about like burdock root, dandelion root. I'm thinking about ginger. You know, it grows under the ground. It's warming ginger tea to help your bowels move. Probiotics can be really good. And so when you're using supplements, you know, people are like, oh, well, magnesium helps me poop. Yeah, magnesium will help you poop. But we want to restore the balance to why your body isn't doing it on its own while helping address that symptom. So it's like a little bit of nuance in that, right? It's like, why?

Yes.

Huh. So giving your body what it needs. And so like, you know, Hadley's basic pillars, like, you know, making sure that you're making good choices around sleeping. And I have a really good book recommendation for that actually. Hadley. I just got this book and I've been loving it.

Oh, what is it?

It's called hello Sleep. Have you heard of that?

No, I haven't. I've. I've read why We Sleep, but I haven't. I haven't heard of that one.

It's by Jade Wu and it just came out, I think 22 or 23. And it's hello Sleep, the science and art of overcoming Insomnia without Medications.

Oh, amazing.

And she basically talks about why sleep hygiene is making us all have more insomnia. It's really good book. But you know, whenever people in blogs are like, just get good sleep. And then I'm like, oh, that makes me want to punt you because, like, just, okay, well that's good.

Yeah. Right?

Like, that's easy sleep now. You just saw my problems, right?

Yeah, yeah, for sure.

If me saying that like, get good sleep just made you want to punt me, then just get the book because I got you, babe. I totally get it.

Totally. Yeah. That's a big piece of what we have to do in my. My program with sleep is like, but how do I actually get the quality of sleep that I need? Because it's not just like, just get more sleep. Sleep at all.

We did a podcast on sleep a long time ago.

We should upgrade. We should do another one. Yeah.

What's up?

That I like it.

Other things your body needs is it need in your body, your mind and your nervous system is. It needs love. It needs rest, which it could be like sitting outside and vegging over a mush book, or it could be going bowling. It could be gardening, it could be anything. You need relaxation and joy. And so as you're listening to this, get out a piece of paper and just write down all of your needs and wants. The things that you need for emotional well being, the things that you need in order to feel physically healthy. And I guarantee you that the list isn't all supplements and herbs and vitamins. There's so much more that we need beyond that. And so write down everything that you know that you need that makes you feel healthy and well. If you haven't felt healthy and well for a while, maybe ask other people, like, what helps them feel healthy and well and get ideas. And then we will move on to the third. Are you ready for number three?

Let's do it.

It's removing obstacles to cure.

I love this one.

This one's so important because these are the things that are getting in the way of you living the life that you want to live. And I have a pet peeve. Can I tell you what my pet peeve is?

Yes, please.

My pet peeve is when doctors or other well intended clinicians tell somebody that it can't be done. Like, oh, you can't be cured of anxiety or you're just going to have to live with this for the rest of your life. And, like, existentially and emotionally, like, how dare you take away someone's hope? Like, that's one whole thing. But the other thing is if you have a clinician that tells you that it's a cognitive distortion, number one, because they're suddenly psychic and fortune telling. Yeah, that's like one of the ten types of twisted thinking that David Burns talked about. And like his Feeling Good handbook from, I don't know, this is like the 1990s or something like that. It's like a basic cognitive distortion is fortune telling. And so when a doctor says that to you, they're using a cognitive distortion to try to sway your opinion, your hope. And the second is that they're telling you that they're not the person to help you get there because they clearly don't think it can be done.

Totally.

So if you feel like you have been doing everything right and you're listening to podcasts like this one and you're trying to figure out what might be, the missing piece is delete the messages from the people that tell you it can't be done because lots and lots of people have proven otherwise. I mean, we see that with like the evolution of science and math and medicine and physics. Like, all sorts of people were told it can't be done, and then they were like, like pooped on. And then it turns out that they were right. Right. And so good. What's oftentimes the problem is there could be an obstacle to cure. There could be something that's getting in the way of you getting the results. And this was a huge thing that it turned out for my Benzo client, he had an obstacle to cure, which I'll tell you, tell us about in a minute, but tell Me about what you ran into, Hadley. Like, obstacles to cure.

Yeah, I was just thinking about. I actually just created a video yesterday and that is very much related to this. You know, nervous system regulation is a really big, like, trending term right now.

Right.

Which I'm very excited about. I'm very glad. But I think we, we kind of obsess about, like, what do you know, my nervous system is dysregulated. How do I regulate it? But there's an obstacle to cure. There is an obstacle to getting our nervous system regulated. There are many. One of them is ingesting too much news, too much, like, disturbing, like, movies disturbing information. Like, all of that stuff. We, our nervous systems are not designed to be able to handle knowing every terrible thing that's going on in the world. Like, they're just not. Like, we were never, we didn't evolve to know all of that stuff. And now I know that, like, people are like, well, I want to be a responsible citizen. And that's great. And we can titrate it so that it's not like a fire hose coming at us. And so your obstacle to cure could be like, what you are in Ayurveda, what you're taking in through your five senses. All of that has to be digested. So not just your food has to be digested, but all of the information that you take in through your eyes. Everything you see, every. Everything you hear, everything that goes on your skin, all of that, everything you smell, all of that has to be digested. And so. And it might be in the mind, it might be. Well, it's always in the mind and body, but all of that has to actually be digested. And so your obstacle to cure might be that you're taking in some, or is probably that you're taking in something that is getting in the way of your body healing itself. Because that's really what is happening, is your body is healing itself. We're just supporting it along the way.

Have we talked about the default mode network? I don't think so. Ringing a bell? Okay, so I'm writing that book right now, Panic Proof. And one of the chapters is about the neuroscience of exactly what you're talking about. And so the research shows that our brain has these areas that are dedicated to scanning your internal environment and your output external environment. This is called the Salience Network. And one parts of the brain that's involved in the Salience Network is your thalamus. And your thalamus is kind of like the relay center. It takes all of these Data points in. And it has to, as you said, filter it. And so the research shows that we receive about 11 billion data points per second from our environment and our bodies, and that the thalamus and its associated organs in the brain or parts of the brain, then they filter that into your conscious awareness. Whatever is relevant or salient, they send down to your amygdala, your feeling part of the brain. And if you had to guess, I feel like we talked about this, maybe my brain is just like having deja vu. But if you had to guess how many of those 11 billion data points our brain is capable of computing per second, how many, how many would you guess?

It's gotta be like less than 1%.

Yeah, yeah, it's 50, 55. Zero. That's it. We are only on average able to be consciously aware of the. Of 50 points out of 11 billion data points per second.

This is why people say that, like, your subconscious is running. You're running you. Right? Yeah, yeah.

And I actually have a podcast. Before I knew you, I did a whole podcast, like way back in the day about how we live most of our lives on autopilot.

Yes. And that's why we want to automate our health habits too. So that. That is all on autopilot so that we can just. So then we can kind of like have those things just like checked off. And then it's like, okay, now what? Now I get to actually think about the things that really excite me in my life. Because I don't have to think about like, should I work out today, should I go to bed at this time? Do you know all of that kind of thing? It's automated.

It's all automated. The habits. That's everything.

Yeah.

And so what you're talking about is like your nervous system is your. Your nervous system is getting all of these. So when we're really stressed and we have all this incoming Data, instead of 11 billion data points a second, and you're staring at a screen with a bunch of pixels and you're scrolling and you're hearing about what's happening in this country and that country and this fire and that drought and whatever is happening, it's so overwhelmed, overwhelming. And our salience network gets leaky. And so then that information, more of it gets dumped down to your emotional brain and your amygdala. Then it's like, I'm constantly feeling in danger, which is then sending your nervous system into fight flight, freeze. So then you feel stressed and overwhelmed and an obstacle to cure Hadley. What you're saying is substantiated by neuroscience is that our brain will then adapt to being in that state of fight, flight, freeze, because it's constantly being inundated with this leaky information. So when we do fasts from social media or fasts from looking at screens, whether it's video games or television or our phones, is. Then we get this almost paradoxical crash. Just like how if you're used to the light being on and you turn it off, suddenly your photoreceptors have been oversaturated and everything is black until your eyes adjust, Right? Totally. So when you're working on obstacles to cure, start thinking about, okay, my nervous system is regulating around being stressed. What could be then a change that I could make in my habits and my lifestyle so that my nervous system isn't having to deal with all of that. So I love what you were saying about ingesting content. Not only as much content, but the quality and the negativity and of the content.

Yeah. And it doesn't even necessarily have to be screens, but that's a huge factor in our modern culture. Like, we. So many people think that they don't have. So many people are so overwhelmed because of all of this, everything that you just said, that they think they don't have time. They think they don't have, you know, like, capability of doing, you know, what they really want to do in their life. And. And, you know, they. They have, like, a learned helplessness because of. Because of that. And so. Yeah, so. So being very, very mindful of all of that is huge. Like, you know, one of the. One of the biggest. The things that make a biggest difference for my clients, especially with, like, sleep and starting the day right, is. Is keeping their phones outside of their bedroom, just completely outside of their bedroom, and having, like, a. An alarm clock, like an old school. Like, you know, you can get them on Amazon for, like, $10.

Yeah, that was, like, way old school. Oh, you've got, like, the buns on the top and then this, like, hammer that's, like, swinging back and forth. Do you guys know what that is?

Yeah, Todd really wants one of those. He's like, it's so cool. It's retro.

So funny. So I have one of those. Yes.

I love it.

So, you guys, we're gonna take a quick break, and then when we come back, we're gonna talk about if your nervous system is fried. This is an opportunity for supplements and herbs, and I'll share with you some of my favorites. But let's just take a little Power break here. And we'll be back in just a few minutes. Hey, Hadley, what do you have going on in your world today?

So I am super excited because my main program, Happy Healthy Habits, I am working on some updates right now, and it's been so cool because I've been gathering testimonials from all of my clients, past and present, who are just sharing some amazing, amazing testimonials with me. Like, people are talking about how they have lost weight without actually trying to lose weight. They're talking about how they have been getting, like, raises or, you know, getting job offers because they are just, like, their mental clarity is off the charts. They're not procrastinating anymore. Like, they're so excited. They're. They're waking up in the morning feeling like they're excited about life for the first time in, like, years and years. And so that's what I'm super excited about right now. The enrollment period isn't open quite yet, though. When you're listening to this, it might be. But you can go check out my. My program called Happy Healthy Habits on my website, and we'll link it in the. In the show notes as well. And you can get on the waitlist so that you can be informed for anytime. Whenever it opens, you'll get. You'll be the first to know. You'll get some bonuses, you'll get some fun stuff. So go get on the waitlist list.

Yeah, y', all, the link's going to be in the bio of the show notes. Hadley, you rock.

Thank you. I'm so excited to hear what you're working on right now, y'.

All. I'm just working on Panic Proof. That's my passion project right now. And so hopefully that book will drop September 2024. And so, God willing, I make deadline. And then if you want to know more about the cool stuff that I have happening, just definitely check out Instagram, Dr. Nicole Kane. And then I'm totally up to date on there. And so, yeah, for sure. Join me. Come on, Instagram.

Amazing. I'm so excited to read your book. Oh, it's gonna be open. Me too.

Back to the show. I hear this is a good one.

Let's do it.

All right, everyone, welcome back. We've been talking about what supplements should I take? And, you know, we've taken a really good, curving, winding road to learning about that. And we've been talking about how we don't always want to start with just what herbs and supplements should we take that we want to be strategic about when we use them, why we're using them. And we were just talking about obstacles to cure. And I was sharing a story with y' all about a client that I had come to me and he had started a benzodiazepine for fear. Flying ended up being a real slippery slope. And then Hadley was sharing with us a lot about nervous system regulation. And we were just to talk about if your nervous system is fried, if you've been through a lot of stress, that there's an opportunity for herbs and supplements here.

Oh, so good. I. It's so important that we have both of these things. And so I'm so glad that you are so knowledgeable about all of these things. I've learned so much from you about herbs and supplements. So let's get into it.

So when we're thinking about chronic stress, we want to heal the body from the effects of stress. And so the nervous system, you're going to be looking for things called trophorestoratives. And this is a name for a category of herbs that have the ability to restore the health to the tropho, or the nervous system. So we, we call these trophorestoratives. And so some hacks that I really love is getting tinctures and then learning how to make your own tincture blends. And so we teach about this a lot in the Holistic Wellness Collective and in the Ayurveda course that you and I did, Hadley. And so if you're like, ooh, making my own herbs, that sounds cool. We'll definitely check that out. And here are some of my favorite trophorestorative herbs. Number one is Avena sativa. And you want aerial parts. I like this as a tincture, as a liquid alcohol extract. It has great shelf life, it works really well, and it's generally incredibly well tolerated. Avena sativa. It's been studied in clinical trials to be helpful for people who have been through chronic stress and who are going through medication or drug withdrawal. Tobacco, opiates, benzodiazepines. Assuming that your doctor gives you the green light, it can be incredibly helpful. There aren't any major contraindications for Avenus sativa. It's generally well tolerated. Although I always say any person can have any reaction to any supplement, any herb, any medication, any food. It's just whatever unique reaction that your body wants to have. When I use a Venus Sativa, I always start low and go up. And then you'll find that this is a, a slower acting herb. So you're Going to hit, you know, really hit your cruise control stride at about six weeks. And so it's not fast, right? But the effects accumulate and they get better and better. So what you would see is you should see that your nervous system feels less fried. So if someone jumps, like if you have a startle or a jump response, like the phone rings and you're like. And you jump, that's a sign your nervous system is, is on edge. And you'll notice less of that. You'll notice that your anxiety is a little bit less. You'll notice that your sensitivity to noise, light and odors should be less acute and intense and bothersome. You'll notice that you bounce back from stressors more easily. Instead of like feeling burned out and exhausted and tired and depleted and unmotivated, you'll find like, I have a little bit more bandwidth and space for this. So that's a big sativa.

The cool thing is about like taking supplements and herbs especially like while you're doing the lifestyle stuff is like it can help you actually do the lifestyle stuff too. So sometimes we just need a little bit of extra support so that we feel like we can even handle changing anything in our life, right? Like if we're totally fried, if our nervous system is totally fried, it's going to feel so daunting to change anything, even small things. And so that's where the herbs and supplements can come in super handy, which.

Could totally be an obstacle to cure. Like if you burned out and fried and exhausted and you need to make those lifestyle changes to get your life back. If you don't have like that oomph inside of you, that's when herbs can make a huge and positive impact and so on.

Oh yeah, go ahead.

I was gonna say I have one more herb in mind, but I want to hear what you're gonna say first.

Well, no, you go first because then I have a question about how to, how to, regardless of what is going on, if it's nervous system regulation or if it's something else, how to actually decide which herbs and supplements you can take that are going to be supportive as you do the lifestyle changes and stuff. But I want to hear the other herb first.

The other herb is Gotu Kola and Go to Cola is. Her other name is Centella and this is a wonderful plant that has an affinity for tissue like skin nervous system, like the, the, the meaty stuff of the body, right? And so it can help with hair, skin, nails, it can help with healing nerves, it can help with regenerating it can help with brain plasticity. It can help with so many different things that restore the body. It's, again, another herb that works really well long term. It tends to be really well tolerated. And I know I talked a lot longer about avenus sativa, but, I mean, I could probably go on for days about gotu kola. Again, this plant, I love it as a tincture as well. I generally get my herbs either as teas or tinctures, but the tinctures just have such a nice shelf life. Like, the viability of it, like prana is something that you teach about Hadley, is that, like, when you harvest that plant, it's full of light, life and prana. And if it's just sitting and decomposing in a tea bag, you're going to be losing that prana over time. But I find that really, a lot of that viability is maintained in tinctures. I think they just. They're stronger, they work better. And so you can even do, like, a mix of a little bit of Gotu cola and avena as tinctures. So maybe like two big squeezes of avena sativa and then two big squeezes, go to cola up, mix it in a little bit of warm water. If you need some sweetness, maybe add a little bit of. I know, honey. Or, you know, something that's going to be balancing for your dosha, which Hadley can teach you more about when you take her, when you join the Triple H program that she has. And. Oh, oh, the obstacle for cure. I can I just say that really quickly before we go into your question, because.

Yeah, please.

I promised I would tell you the obstacle to cure for my benzo.

Oh, oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, please do.

His gut was a hot mess. He wasn't absorbing anything. And so we ended up doing stool testing. So we were gathering data from the body. He had all this anxiety, especially gut anxiety. He had all the eight types, but gut anxiety floated to the top. We're like, okay, that's the main thing. And the main thing. And we confirmed that with gut testing. And he had such high amounts of secretory iga, which is an important. A inflammatory marker for a compromised gut where there's leaky fenestrations, which basically means, like, the gut has gaps in it and things are leaking out and they shouldn't. And so he wasn't really even absorbing the thousands of dollars of supplements that he was taking. So an obstacle to cure for him was that he's taking all the things his gut isn't absorbing, so none of them are Working. So we had diplomacy that all the time.

Yeah.

It's so common. Our. Our standard American diet is just like. It's like murder to our guts. So we ended up giving him a lot of carminatives, which is another category of herbs. And again, we're talking about herbs right now. But herbs are just so good at restoring health to the body, which is a little bit different than just like, giving your body building blocks that it needs is herbs can restore the health. So we gave him some carminatives that help with digestion and help with healing the gut. So he had peppermint and ginger scutellaria. He had gentian and chamomile and fennel, and all these really wonderful herbs that he mixed all together. And we made this, like, that healing blend. We gave him a psychobiotic, which probiotics are the gut. And so I promised I would share that. That. So that was.

Yes. And that sounds like it's all vata and pitta. Pacifying herbs.

Yeah. Which.

Yeah. So it's like. Yeah. Which is basically like when vata and pitta are out of balance, that's when we have nervous system issues.

So I love that you just knew he was pitta and vata by just hearing about what I gave him because he's got so much underlying pitta. He's got that fire in his belly, which I love.

Right. Yeah. And you're giving him, like, those cooling things to. To calm that down and then that you're able to. To actually heal the gut in that way.

You're brilliant, Hadley.

You're brilliant. Thank you. Oh, my gosh. I just love learning from you. Can you guys tell that we're kind of obsessed with each other?

We kind of are, friend.

That's just. Just like Dr. Kane.

So you've been waiting so patiently while I've babbled about herbs. You had a question that you wanted to ask. I think it was like selecting an herb or supplement.

Yeah. So how do we know what herbs and supplements to take? So, you know, say it's not. We're not necessarily, although most of us are dealing with nervous system dysregulation. So, like, that's probably going to be helpful for almost every single person. Unless you're living on a remote desert island, like. Like, you know, probably gonna be helpful, but what if we've got other things going on, like, you know, physically, mentally, that. That we're like. We've got this really big challenge, this really big thing. How do we actually decide what kinds of herbs and supplements to Take for that.

Maybe we can start with a specific scenario and I can like walk through a specific scenario. So can you give me like a mock case? Like a mock.

Yeah, yeah, let's see. Okay, so let's say. Well, let's say I'm. I feel like I'm pretty grounded, but actually I'm maybe too grounded and I don't have like a zest for life. I see this a lot, actually, with a lot of my clients where, I mean, a lot of times it's both. Their nervous system is dysregulated, but they're also. They're like more in that collapse nervous system state. But. But let's say that they are feeling like, okay, I'm, you know, most of the. I'm not like overwhelmed necessarily. I don't like feel like I'm running out of time or anything, but I'm just feeling like, like blah. I'm just feeling like I like apathy. And, and. And also I keep gaining weight. I keep. I'm. My, like, I have sluggish. So how do we decide? Like, do I need to. Because, you know, the average person is. I mean, I know what I would do with Ayurveda, but like, you know, the average person is like, I don't know exactly. You know, maybe I've heard that this, like, helps with metabolism. Like, do I take that? Or like, is it gonna. Is it gonna like, make it so that I have adverse reactions? Or, like, is it even gonna work? So how do we actually, like, what's the step by step for deciding how to actually choose a supplement or choose an herb.

You wanna think about what is an unmet need from your mind, your body and your nervous system. You want to look at those symptoms. And oftentimes having a conversation with the body can be a really good starting point. You can close your eyes and you can notice that maybe that lack of zest for life. And you can see, okay, where do I feel that lack of zest in my body? And sometimes feeling for a lack of something can be a little bit tricky. And so if you're struggling to find that, then imagine what it would feel like to have zest. And so then you can imagine, oh, I feel that sensation. Maybe it's in your chest and it feels like excitement. Or maybe you're having a hard time finding that feeling of zest. And so you can go back to a time when you did feel it and try to remember a time when you did feel it.

It.

So there's a couple different inroads for that or you could just imagine what it would be like to feel that. And once you feel it, then you can feel into the absence of it and say, okay, well, what is missing? And then you can. I would do a float back with that. So zest for life. I feel this when I have zest, or I felt this when I had zest, or I imagine that it would feel like if I had zest. So then we remove that, we go into that present state, and what is missing, you notice and you feel into that, and then you follow that back to the earliest time that you can remember that feeling, or lack of feeling, being there. And then you explore what was going on in your life at that time. Because that lack of zest is an adaptation to something. Yeah. That lack of zest is data. And you always want to try to follow those through lines to when it first began. Because if you can get to that root of it, that's how you're going to heal it. Otherwise, it's like mowing over the weeds and not pulling them up, right? Yes. So once you fell into that, that's step one, where you're like gathering the data from the body. And maybe it's after you had a really bad infection. Be like, oh, this all started when I got mono and I was 16 and I've never been well since. Or it began when I found out my partner was cheating on me and my heart was broken, and I've never been well since. Or it was. I went to Mexico and I got sick from the food.

Because this was me. I had major gut health issues.

I got sick in Mexico too. It's so bad. So life. Life inspires the content on these episodes, y'. All. And. And so then that could be good data. So let. Let's say that it did start. You got food poisoning in Mexico. Then you'd be like, okay, well, something. It's interesting. My. My lack of zest started when I got sick in Mexico. So we're going to use that as a starting point. We're going to get more information. So if it started with an illness of the gut. Gut. Gut testing is going to be really valuable versus, like, if your partner left you when this all started, you may not do gut testing. Right. That's awesome.

Yeah.

So you're. You're gathering data from the body. You're confirming if there's relevant testing, but you're not just testing for the sake of testing. And then based on what the testing says, like, let's say that you do the gut testing, it's like, oh, man, your gut is super out of balance. And then you can then add supplements or probiotics or herbs that will specifically restore that balance. So let's say in this scenario, the person has high inflammation in their gut and they have dysbiosis or a lack of microbial diversity. You want to bring down inflammation, and you want to restore microbial diversity. We're not just giving you probiotics because you have gut anxiety. We're giving you probiotics because gut anxiety may be at the root of you living the life that you want, which is feeling so assessed. Right.

So good. Okay. My mind is totally blown because I have always kind of been like, so I was telling you this before we started this podcast where, like, people ask me all the time, like, what supplements should I take? Like, what supplements should everyone take? And I'm like, well, that's not really how it works. Like, we need to know what our specific bodies need, and so we need to do testing, but we might not need to do testing if that. If it doesn't actually come from something physical, which is just, like, so freaking good.

Right? Yeah.

Save a bunch of money on tests if it's not physical.

Yeah. And. And, you know, like, if you've been hitting your head against the wall and doing all this, like, you listen to this podcast, and six months later, you're like, I don't know. Like, it could. It could be that you. Who knows? But that's definitely not where I would start.

Well, and it could have been an event that then, you know, triggered something in your gut or. Or you're like, you know, get blood work or whatever, you know, because your mind impacts your body as well.

Yeah.

And so, you know, you may be.

But you ate all of the cake and then you got candida overgrowth. But. Yeah, but if you just started with treating the candida overgrowth, like, that through line goes back to the breakup. And so, like, you really need to address that. And that may be doing EMDR or trauma work or mindfulness or, you know, parts work. Whatever that would look like for you, is that you're addressing the acute concerns by making sure that all your ducks are in a row with the pillars of health. You're giving your body what it needs, and oftentimes your symptoms will tell you what you are needing that you're not getting or what you did need that you did not get. Totally amazing.

Is that the last step, or do we have one more step?

So we've talked about just concerns. Get the body what it Needs, removing obstacles to cure. We touched on tonifying weak and damaged systems. And so to tonify is to strengthen. So we think about, like, toning your muscles. Well, you want to tone up your nervous system, you want to tone up your gut, you want to tone up your doshas, so that if you have. If you don't have, it's all about having balanced doshas. And so if you don't have enough pitta, if you don't have enough fire, you want to tone up your pitta. So herbs work really well with that. Diet works really well with that. Like, if I wanted to tone up my. Let's say I want to tone up my pitta. Like, say I'm like, so vata dominant. I have, like, no fire in my belly. I have no zest. Zest. How would you have me tone up my pitta?

Okay, so I would say if you don't have a lot of zest, there's probably some kapha there too, because vata tends to be pretty enthusiastic. But if you have lots of vata and lots of kapha going on, which I was actually just talking to one of my clients about this, that's their dominant, and they. They don't have as much pitta. And. And so bringing in heat, bringing in heat with your food that you're eating with, the exercises that you're doing, bringing it, like, get sweaty, you know, bringing in some more of that, like, motivational, like, inspirational content. It could even be more of the, like, you know, that, like, masculine, like, you can do it, like, you know, like, like push kind of thing, which usually I'm like, don't. I'm like, not about that because I have a lot of pitts in my constitution, and most people are, like, burnt out. But if you're not burnt out and you need more of that fire, like, that's going to be the really, really helpful. And something I was actually just talking about with my client is like, she was like, well, I just don't feel like I need meditation because I need to be moving my body more and I need to be doing things that aren't relaxing. And I'm like, yes, not all meditations are created equal. Get a meditation that's going to be super inspiring and going to make you want to move your body. Something that's going to be like, you know, like, maybe just like a talk on YouTube. You can look up, like, motivational speeches or whatever, like on YouTube or motivational meditations on YouTube or insight timer or whatever and get them for free. And that's the kind of meditation that you're. That you're needing.

If you need more fire, I think that's awesome. The last two are addressing structural integrity, and structural integrity is just the muscles, the bones, the ligaments, the tissues, the alignment, the strength, the blood flow. So this is like stretching, yoga, exercise. Here's an interesting hack. Can I share? I know we're like kind of coming at time here, but it's an orthopedic hack for stress and anxiety and like repatterning your nervous system.

Yes, please. That sounds awesome.

So when we are sitting and. Actually, two hacks, but I'm only going to tell one of them today. Well, you'll just have to come back next time. So when we're sitting, remember earlier we were talking about the Salience Network and how that's like taking all the input and it's like trying to filter it for relevant and irrelevant so that part of the brain gets over activated and things thinks that things are dangerous when you aren't moving. So think about a deer. When a deer sees you, it's like. And it freezes, right? And it's like beady little eyes, like, staring at you. And so when your body is in that position of freeze, like when you're staring at your phone or you're just typing on your computer or you're watching tv, if your eyes aren't moving and rotating, looking far and close, if your neck isn't rotating your head on your shoulders, that is putting your body in a state which triggers the Salience Network in your brain to think that you're in danger. And so even just sitting and being still and frozen could be overstimulating the danger part of your brain and then causing your nervous system to fry out.

Wait, this is massive information.

Hold on.

Like, it's not even just that we're like, like taking in disturbing information or information that is like, you know, dangerous or whatever. Like, even if it's the happiest information, it could still be triggering this because of the way that we are not allowing ourselves to be in an animal body that moves around and looks different places.

Yeah.

Huge.

So the hack, my friends, is every 20 minutes or so. Like, look left and right, look far and close and rotate your head. And that will help keep your Salience Network in safety zone. Oh my gosh.

The way you just did that totally looked like a deer. That was awesome. You're like, if you guys aren't seeing this video, she's like moving her head around so good.

What is the animal like? Pigeon at least you didn't say it looked like a pigeon.

No, no. Yeah, right.

Oh my gosh. The last one, my friends, is addressing your symptoms with supplements. And you know, we didn't talk too much about supplements today, but when you have, have a hot summer sweaty day and you sweat out all your electrolytes, you want to give your body magnesium. That's giving your body what it needs. But if you're just anxious and you want to calm it down, you can give your body magnesium. It's the same solution. It's just the reasoning behind it is different. And so what I want to teach you all is. And what had. So what you teach us about Nariveda is the why you do what you do. And so that last one of addressing your symptoms is, you know, you can do that. You can do what my benzo friend did and take all of the things, but you're probably going to just get general results if you're using general treatments.

Exactly, yeah. And so that's why the supplements come last.

That's why they're last. Yeah, yeah. Spend like no time on them, huh? Right. What supplement should I take? Like three seconds at the end of an hour? Episode Road.

Right. Are. Okay. I'm actually curious. Are there any supplements that you feel like we kind of should all be taking because we're all in the same boat here or. No, because I, I, you know, like, I don't know the answer to that.

When in, when I was in my first quarter of medical school, I had my birthday because my birthday's in September and we just started medical school. My cohort took me to stand up comedy show and the dude on stage called me out and asked me that question. No giggling as you asked me that. And I was like. So I just yelled out fish oil. I was like, everybody should take fish oil. And I'm like that. You know, I stand by that. Today I feel like fish oil. You've got mine in front of you. You're like, I have my fish oil. Good for your brain. It's good for your nervous system. It's been studied to be helpful for headaches and anxiety and all of the things. Things. And so, you know, that's, that's like part of a basic 101. But we also know that because of a lack of crop rotations and nutrient soil depletion, that our food sources aren't as densely packed with all the vitamins and minerals that we would have gotten in the 1950s. And as such, if you have an increased nutrient demand because your life is stressful or because you've been exposed to environmental toxicity is you might need a multivitamin just to supplement that. If you're eating a standard American diet, you. You absolutely need a physician grade multivitamin. Maybe you need it less if you're, you know, doing organic juicing and eating all of the healthy, nutrient dense foods. But so fish oil multivitamin for sure.

Awesome. I love it.

Okay, started with that.

Yes. Well, thank you all for sticking with us. I know this was a long episode, but we had so much to get through and I hope that it you guys all it super helpful. I know I there were so many moments in here where my mind was blown, so I love when that happens.

Same. Seriously, it's like pure magic. And so if you guys have questions, then definitely let us know. If there are topics that you would love to hear about, send us a message about that too. Because this, these conversations are guided by what you want to know. And I probably want to know too.

So yeah, absolutely. We want to talk about what you want to actually know. So message us on Instagram. I'm at Happy Healthy Hadley. Hadley is spelled with two e's at the end and then you want to say your Instagram as well.

I'm Dr. Nicole Kane. C A I N. Thanks for being here.

We love you all. Amazing. Oh, and leave us a review. If you find this stuff helpful that gets it to so many more people, we would really, really, really appreciate it. So we can keep doing this.

Thank you. Oh, you guys are amazing. See you later.

Bye.

The recording you just listened to consists of the personal opinions of Dr. Nicole Cain, a naturopathic doctor with a master's in clinical psychology, and Happy Healthy Hadley, an Ayurveda expert with a master's in health behavior and health education. While these opinions are based upon literature, counseling education, medical training, and clinical experience, this content should not be viewed as the definitive opinion on these subjects. Listening to this podcast is not a substitute for any sort of medical, psychological, or other form of treatment. If you are in a crisis, please call 911-OR call the National Suicide Prevention Line at 1-800-27-382. If you are in need of counseling, don't hesitate to make an appointment with a counselor in your area. Dr. Nicole and Hadley are passionate about you becoming the expert of your own emotional and physical well being. If this resonates with you and you think this podcast would help someone you love, please share it with them. We look forward to seeing you on the next episode of the Holistic Inner Balance podcast.

Sam.