(Ep. 48) Imposter Syndrome - What Is It and How to Cope with It with Dr. Nicole Cain

Does it ever feel like you're a marketing professional just speaking into the void? But with LinkedIn ads, you can know you're reaching the right decision makers, a network of 130 million of them. In fact, you can even target buyers by job title, industry, company, seniority, skills and Did I say job title. See how you can avoid the void and reach the right buyers with LinkedIn ads. Spend $250 on your first campaign and get a free $250 credit for the next one. Get started at LinkedIn.com campaign terms and conditions apply. Hello everyone, it is Ryan here, host of the Pursuit of Happiness podcast. Now this is a podcast where I get to have conversations with some amazing people from all over the world who have stories to share, experiences we can learn from, and knowledge in areas that we can use and apply to our lives to make us better and happier people. Now, each episode has a different topic, but all geared towards helping us along our own pursuit of happiness and helping us understand this journey we call life just a little better. We'll touch on everything from mental health to nutrition, diet, fitness, travel, adventure, relationships, and believe me, much, much more. All along this journey, I'll experiment and apply some of the advice and information from my conversations to see how it affects me along my own pursuit of happiness and then report back to you. Now, don't forget, if you enjoy this episode or any other episode, please take a moment, subscribe, leave me a rating and review. It is truly, truly appreciated while also helping get these great conversations to even more listeners. Now on this episode, I am super happy as always to welcome back Dr. Nicole Kane. This is the third time she's been on my podcast and every single time she comes on, she continues to amaze me with her knowledge. Now, she was on episode number 16 and episode 23. So when you're done listening to this episode, go back and listen to those and you'll see exactly why I keep asking her. On now this episode, we focus more so on mental health and imposter syndrome. Now, if you're not familiar with the term imposter syndrome, there's a good possibility you actually suffer from this or know somebody who does, and it's basically you just feeling like you don't belong or you're not good enough compared to your peers. Now, Dr. Cain does a much better job of describing it than I just did, but we go into detail on who this affects most and how to cope with it. But as I just mentioned, if you're listening to this, there's actually a really Good chance you actually suffer from imposter syndrome, whether it be on social media when comparing likes and views, or even at work when you feel like you're not performing up to your job role or compared to those co workers around you. Now, this also affects athletes as well as many other high achievers. And we go into why this has always been a rather intriguing topic. And there was no one I would rather sit down and have this conversation with than Dr. Nicole Caine. I truly mean that. I even get her thoughts on the term fake it till you make it, whether that's a good thing or a bad thing. And this is also an episode where Dr. Kane turned the tables and actually started to interview me on my mental processes. I thought that was pretty fun. And you'll get to know me a little better. And once again, you will hear that I need to meditate. We talk about meditation as well and the benefits of that. This is honestly one of my most favorite conversations so far. I can't recommend listening to this entire conversation enough. And like I said, going back and listening to my previous conversations with Dr. Kane, she is awesome. I can't wait to have her on again in the future. We're going to make that happen. But until then, everybody enjoy this conversation with Dr. Nicole Kane. Dr. Kane, my old friend, how are you? I was literally just thinking, like, I feel like I'm talking to an old friend here now.

So good.

This is wonderful.

Get my mic set up. Because the last couple times we've talked, it's been in my home office. Now we're in my office.

Your office. Office. And where is your office? Arizona or Michigan?

Well, depends on the time of year. So right now it's my office office. Is Michigan good?

Yeah, it's hot. It's hot here. I can't imagine what Arizona is like.

And it's finally they're getting monsoons again. But it had been quite a long time, a couple years since they'd had a really good monsoon season, which often, like, rehydrates the desert and cools the weather, cleans the air, and finally they're getting it again. But it's been rough in Arizona.

What's the definition of a monsoon? Just a crazy rainstorm or what?

Yeah, it's a big rainstorm that comes in the desert and so usually they're really fast and, and violent and just deluges of rain and then they're gone in. The sky is blue and the birds are chirping.

Okay. Because I remember when I was, when I booked the trip to Havasu Falls, like four or five years ago. They're like, you know, the best time is to go before August, September when monsoons come, because it just gets all muddy, like a landslide type of thing. So.

And there's so much flooding because the ground isn't used to sucking up the water.

Right.

And so there's tons of flash floods, especially at Havasu Falls.

Yeah. Because I was looking at pictures. If you see pictures of Havasu Falls, how beautiful the blue is. But with monsoon, it's all like mud coming down. It looks terrible. It's like, oh, that'd be horrible.

It's. It's very gross and muddy.

What a waste of an experience would be to hike 10 miles and go see that.

And it's so hard to get in. So you may finally get a ticket and then you could have terrible weather and then have to wait another few years before you can get in again.

Exactly. Have you gone?

I keep trying to go and every time I go, I don't plan far ahead enough. And I haven't been able to get a. I haven't been able to get a pass.

Okay. Because when I did, I went. I think it was probably about five years ago now. I called, not kidding. Three days straight, non stop. Like I remember I had my headphones plugged to my iPhone and while I was working I would just hang up. Redial, hang up, redial, hang up, redial. For three straight days. I had no call history besides Havasu Falls. But. I know, but the system has changed since now. You can like there's a waiting list on. They have a website now. It's like, hey, finally. And there's like a waiting list on the website or something. But I mean, I've had a reason to go back. But you know, maybe one of these.

Days I would totally recommend if you haven't done Zion.

I have. It's majestic.

Did you do the Narrows?

I did, yeah, I actually did. I actually did. I was way more pumped to do the Narrows and Angels Landing because I have a definitely fear heights. So, yeah, I went half halfway on Angels Landing and the Narrows. My dad and I did a couple miles and he was slightly nervous because there was like a, A moderate to high risk of like the flood or whatever.

Oh, the flood. He was worried about flood. Yeah, he's during a toxic algae bloom.

What's that?

So there's this like form of algae that is a neurotoxin and during certain times of the year it just blooms and there's tons of it in the Water. And so they don't recommend, like, dogs and kids and really they just don't recommend you hike it at all. Because if it gets in, if you swallow a bunch or if it gets in a sore, then it's a neurological central nervous system talks to it. We went anyway, we're like, what?

Whatever. Like, I'm Dr. Kane. I know all about this stuff. I got the vitamins and minerals. I'm. I'm good.

Within the first 10 minutes, I, like, slipped on a rock and bit it. And I was like, in the water and I was like, I guess we're doing this.

When was that? What time of year was that?

It was recently. It was winter. 2020. Okay, so it was this last winter.

Nice. And did you go anywhere else in Utah? Was that your first time, like, kind of going up there?

It was my first time in Utah. And that was our big hike as we did the Narrows the whole day. And then I wanted to do other things, but then we wanted to go to the Grand Canyon, and so I'd like to go back and I want to do angels. But I am also afraid of heights.

Yeah, I mean, I question, like, my fear of heights is legit. Some people are like, I'm afraid of heights, and they go do these crazy things. It's like, you aren't that afraid of heights. So it's. Yeah, the drop off is. Is legit. It's real. I. My mind started playing tricks on me when I was kind of about like halfway up. I was like, this is. I started taking very slow, short stops. It's like, you know what? Yeah, I'm done. I'm done. This is. This ain't worth it for me. But did you go to Bryce Canyon?

I have not been to Bryce Canyon.

Bryce is awesome. That is awesome. That's worth the trip. Go there. You only need a few days there max. I'd say to maximum three. Cause it all starts to look the same. But yeah, it's like, oh, yeah, that one was the coolest looking place I've ever hiked. It's like a different planet. No, it really is. Um, and you know, I'm like. I said I'm afraid of heights, but there was no situation where I was, like, freaking out. Um, they do a really good job of paving up the trails in between all the hoodoos and everything. So Bryce Canyon was, yeah, super memorable. I wish I was closer. I'd go back. Yeah, I highly recommend Bryce Canyon. Yeah, for sure. Zion is like the big one. It's got the big hikes the Majestic. Those are for your adventure seekers. Bryce Canyon. Just fricking super cool. Yeah, I really liked it.

Oh, that's awesome. Thank you for that. And I know that that's not our topic today, but I have to give you one more hiking gift. If you haven't been to Joshua Tree.

I have not.

Oh, it's like you were reminding me of. It's like you were saying about being in another land or another planet. Joshua Tree feels very much like that. And Joshua Tree only naturally grow in that desert, that particular part of the country. And they look like these alien forms and then there's these giant smooth rocks. It's just unreal. And you have to see it.

Yeah, no, I will. All the cool places are out west. I'm telling you, like, it's a bummer that it's. It's so far. I mean, I'm gradually knocking it all off. I was just out in Lake Tahoe like a month and a half ago or so. That's beautiful.

Yeah, I saw your pictures.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

I'm writing that down too.

It's gorgeous. And then my girlfriend and I are going to Alaska in two and a half weeks, so.

Oh, that's on my living list.

Oh, yeah. Well, hopefully I can give you tips for that. We have it all mapped out and planned out. Seven days of just full activity, adventure, fun, really. Glaciers, sled dogs, choppers. Yeah. It's going to be insane. We're doing.

Are you bringing your dogs? Are you?

I wish, I wish.

That seems like it would be an adventure to have your dogs there, but it could be quite a lot of.

I would. I've been to so many places that are so far away that I've loved. Like, glacier.

Yeah.

Banff and Vancouver. It's like, oh, they have my dogs here. Would be amazing. But to travel with them.

Yeah.

I don't know how I would do that, let alone like the whole flight and plane situation and then having them. And like, we're going to go hiking on. On a glacier with a crampons and stuff. You probably could. You can't bring the dogs for that, you know. So, um, yeah, there's a lot of adventures. We're also taking a chopper onto a glacier where there's sled dogs and we're going to go ride with the sled dogs in the snow.

Cool. I can't wait to see your pictures.

I can't. I can't wait. Do you follow my personal account? Because you'll see a lot more. I don't know if you follow my personal.

Let me check because I know that you and I talked about it. I thought that I did.

You met. You might. It's Ryan underscore. M underscore McGuire.

C G U I R E. Oh, no. But I am now.

That's where you'll get a lot of the cool, the cool photos. Yeah, you'll see a lot.

I love this family picture of your. Your three dogs. Oh, that's so cool. Well, now I'm following you.

Yes. All right. And then I'll follow if I'm not. I know I probably am. But if, if I'm not, I'll follow you. But that's where you'll see a cool adventure picks. So two and a half weeks for anybody who's listening. You can feel free to follow me too. It's just pretty much adventures and my dogs, it's just good times. You know, I use social media for good times. I don't, I don't do anything controversial or political or anything. But yeah, we can talk adventures all day, every day.

We could. I feel like you and I could just talk all things, all of the.

I know. You know what's funny? Between me and you, something I've been like thinking about in the last, like, I'll honestly say last few months is like I would do, like to do a. Some point a mini series with you where we just hit on multiple topics, like in a row, like a three part or four part type of podcast or something.

I'm writing that down.

Yeah, I would love to do that. It's just my curious mind and your expertise and knowledge, I feel like could lead some really solid conversations. I will say I'm in if you want to do that. I'm in. I'll come up with some outlines and you can too. But yeah, I will say that I also still to this day receive really solid feedback from the vitamins. The vitamins and supplements podcast that we did. That was awesome. And because of that, you definitely changed the way like I take things. Like, first of all, I take now vitamin D plus K. I take CoQ10, I take fish oil and I take something else called resveratrol based on Dr. David Sinclair's podcast. But. But yeah, it's. I don't miss a day now. Well, I take a weekend break because you said take a weekend break with vitamins. So Monday through Friday every day. I've not missed a Monday through Friday.

And what are the results?

I'm actually genuinely curious. So are you talking like, how do I feel or like Going to. Back to the lab and seeing if my vitamin D levels change because they were low when you. We had that conversation and I got it checked out and they were actually below where they should be. So it's been on my to do list to actually go back in my blood drawn and actually get a, you know, get a result again. And that's something I really want to do in the next week or two. I'm actually going to make a note of that because I just keep forgetting to do that. So how are you.

How are you finding your cognitive and physical performance?

I think it's. I think it's really solid. Um, the tricky thing with that, too, is that I've also been working with a nutrition coach, too, to kind of get where I want to be. So I'm tinkering with a lot. So as far as, like, you know, AB testing, if you will, it's tough because there are a lot of variables. But I will say I'm in wonderful shape right now. My energy is really good. And I will say, like, I. I'm. I'm kind of a machine right now.

Like, that's awesome.

Yeah. Work has been super busy. Podcast is doing great. I do freelance work, design work on the side. Obviously, got to maintain my relationship. And I also have two dogs, so. And then my fitness, you know what I mean? So my days are full every day. Sometimes that's a bit of a problem that I'm trying to work on. But, yeah, I. I feel good. I feel great. I feel like I'm in really good shape. I feel like I'm in my prime. Like, I'm turning 39 here in a month, and my girlfriend's like, I hope when I. When I'm your age, I can keep up with you, with what you're doing right now, because I'm just constantly on the move. I'm feeling good, I'm doing good things. I'm sharp. I actually just also went through an interview process and just accepted a new job. So.

Congratulations, Ryan. Thank you.

Thank you. Yeah, so we got that going on too. So I'm stepping up. A lot of good things happening. So, yeah, I. I'm truly. I feel good, but I'm truly curious to get the scientific results, and that's something I will follow up with you. I'm actually going to get that done. I will post results to kind of see, you know, how things have changed.

Side by side.

Yeah, I will do a side by side. And because I remember you said I contacted you after I got. Hey, I'm really low in vitamin D. And you said, you know, double the dose, I think you said, for about like 60 days or so. So I did that. And ever since then, I've been kind of just tapering back off to one pill, if you will. One vitamin, if you will. Um, so I'm curious, if I'm low, would you just double the dose again?

Mm, yeah. Yeah, exactly.

Um. Cause there's. Is there anything. Is there such thing as, like, too much vitamin D?

Yeah. The Vitamin D Council has such great information on vitamin D and how to dose it and what it does and signs of too little vitamin D and too much. And so their reference ranges, their publications are showing that it's optimal between like 80 and 100 blood test levels. But when you look at the lab reference range, they're happy if you're above 35. So when I'm working with people, I always try to tell them to follow the latest research. And so I send them to the Vitamin D Council. And above. Above. 120, 130, 140, depending on the person. It can change the way that your body's metabolizing calcium because, as you know, as you and I talked about, you need those fat solubles plus calcium and magnesium in order to properly absorb vitamin D. And so because of their relationship intimacy, when one is way too high, it can create abnormalities in the other ones. And then if your calcium is way out of balance, that can cause cardiac issues. So really it's all about the proper ratios. And so, yeah, go and take a peek. If your vitamin D turns out that it is over 100 and it is too high, you just would discontinue the vitamin D for a little while.

Okay. And yeah, I know just to cue the listeners in here, we're going to talk about mental health here in this episode, but I'm going to use this time wisely. Talk about real quick. You said magnesium. I listened to a podcast recently with Matthew Huberman. I'm not sure if you know who he is, but he was saying how a lot of people are deficient in magnesium. Is that something that you recommend people take? And is that supposed to help you sleep as well?

Magnesium is used in so many biochemical processes. In fact, I used to have this big poster on my wall, and it was this giant poster, teeny tiny font. And it was all the pathways that we had to learn in medical school of the body. And so it's. You might have heard of the Krebs cycle or the citric acid cycle, or the Glycolytic cycle, there's all these different pathways, and in almost every one of those, magnesium is used. And so if magnesium is too low, then different biochemical pathways that makes your body work are going to not have what they need. And so we can get symptoms. So magnesium, we use it objectively for muscle support. Like if you have sore muscles, tight muscles, stiff muscles, we can use magnesium to help with sleep. Magnesium can be very relaxing. Some people will use magnesium citrate if their bowels are blocked up and they need to have a bowel movement because magnesium can loosen the bowels if it's the citrate form especially. I've used magnesium for migraines, I've used magnesium for fibromyalgia, chronic fatigue. Really anything that requires magnesium in your body, if it's not getting it, you can get symptoms. And giving your body magnesium can make a huge difference. And the great thing about magnesium is that when you overdose on magnesium, you're going to get diarrhea. So your body will know. And so generally speaking, I always tell people to start on a low dose and I love mixing different forms. So like a little bit of a citrate, a little bit of a glycinate, I think it's Zymogen has a product that I really like that mixes a couple or I think actually it's like four different types of mag mixed in there. And start low and then work your way up. And then when you get a loose bowel, that's a little bit too much for you. Just back it off and then maintain it. That.

All right, I'm going to hit on this just a little more. So when I got tested with all my levels, was magnesium in there? Like, I'm not looking at it right now, so I can't remember. But would magnesium be in that test? Is it pretty generic?

It's not a generic test. Well, your electrolytes. So when you do a cmp, you're going to get things that are going to show up in there. But the, the problem with micronutrient testing specifically is that your body is always trying to maintain homeostasis. So you may eat a bunch of food that has magnesium in it, your levels will rise and then your body's going to kick up its metabolism of that magnesium to try to get you back to homeostasis. So you could do red blood cell magnesium, but it doesn't necessarily give you like a general day to day magnesium level. So generally speaking, I just listen to the body in the moment. I'm feeling a Little sore, my bowels are a little obstructed or I have some pain or some achiness. Take mag, see how you feel, increase the dose, see how you feel, because it may change day to day.

Okay. And is that bananas? Right.

There's tons of mag and potassium and bananas, that's a great food. Like dehydrated bananas would probably be awesome for your trip.

Yes. Well, it's funny you say that because we have a list of snacks that were bring because when you go to Alaska, it's so expensive. Everything is so expensive. So we're just like, we're going to stuff our bags with road trip snacks and dry fruit is 100% on that list for sure. Yeah, I would definitely do the bananas. Absolutely. Do you have like a level like that we should be at? As far as magnesium, ala, we just talked about vitamin D, like you said, between 80 and 100. Is there a level?

It depends on what you're testing. So, for example, if you're doing a blood magnesium level, your body's going to want to generally kind of keep that between 1.7 and 2.2. But if it's out of balance, that's going to be more reflective of your kidney health as opposed to is your basic magnesium bioavailability there? Because again, your kidneys are what's primarily responsible for regulating your electrolytes. And so you'll eat the mag. Your muscles may not have enough of it. Like, you may have those muscle symptoms that tell us that you're hungry for mag. But. But your body's going to do everything it can to keep your blood perfectly normal with the work of the kidneys. So by the time that it shows up on a blood test, then you're. You're way in deep with deficiencies or excesses that are your. Your kidneys are struggling with.

Okay. And I assume what we talked about before in our previous podcast where you get this actually matters, right? For magnesium?

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I would just try to stick with brands that don't have a bunch of extra fillers. I like, you know that I love designs for health. Life Extension has a pretty inexpensive magnesium combination. I think it's like I'm looking here, it's nine bucks. It's cheap.

Oh, wow.

Yeah, yeah. So it doesn't have to cost you an arm and a leg. And Life Extension tends to be really well researched. So if you go to their website, they have a ton of articles with references to PubMed studies, great education, and their products are pretty good. And by the way, for Your listeners. I have no affiliation with this supplement company so you're getting my non biased perspective for them.

This is so cool. And this is honestly why I want to do like a mini series because I feel like we could just keep chatting about this stuff and people can soak it in because this is all super, super helpful and useful information like where to get it, what to take, how much to take and how going to feel because of that. Like that's the most important stuff like ever, you know. And we just don't have this information like, you know, thank God. Fortunately you got schooled on this and you got the education for it. You got the background, the research. There's millions of people that have no clue, just no clue. So this is awesome.

I'm going to share with you my favorite mineral hack. Are you ready?

Yeah. Oh my God.

My favorite mineral hack. It's so good. So there's a company called Trace Minerals and they make a product called Concentrate and that's C O N C E N T R A C E and they're trace mineral drops. And I love these. Instead of drinking Gatorade, instead of drinking energy drinks to try to get your minerals in, instead of using a pinch of sea salt, I love to use these mineral drops. And the reason for that is because our bodies like to eat vegetables with their friends, they like to eat herbs with their friends, they like minerals and vitamins with their friends. Just like we were talking about vitamin D, Vitamin D wants to be absorbed with cal, Magnesium, vitamin A, vitamin K. Right. And so when you take your minerals in, you will get the best results if you dose it with its companions. And so my favorite favorite one, you can find it@traceminerals.com and it has your magnesium, it has your potassium and your sodium. But what it has that a lot of people don't give enough credit to is lithium. And lithium is a naturally occurring element and it's incredibly important for biochemical function, especially the brain. In fact, there were studies done where they were looking at lithium content in water in cities and they were comparing cities that had lithium added to the water with cities that did not. And then looking at overall depression and suicidal rates in the city, and amazingly, we found statistically significant benefits to mental health by adding lithium to the water. And so if someone was depressed, if someone was suicidal, if someone was dealing with mental health issues, adding lithium to their protocol relieved that. And when I'm talking about lithium, I'm not talking about the pharmaceutical lithium carbonate, I'm talking about the mineral that is in the earth, in the dirt that you can add to your water as a part of a mineral boosting blend.

This is super, super helpful. I'm definitely going to get that. Yeah. And people don't realize too is like, you know, they just go snag a vitamin off the shelf and start taking it. But like I get the vitamin D plus K because it just absorbs better. People don't know that you have to take it with things for it to work properly. And yeah, also like with like food, like a lot of times, like I have yogurt and then I take the pill, the vitamins right after that so it absorbs properly. I had a random question. Have you ever had like crazy water or mineral water from. It's a mineral wells in Texas. They say it tastes like you can taste the minerals in the water.

I've never heard of that. Crazy water.

Yeah. Mineral wells, Texas.

Cool.

Yeah.

I will find out all of the things.

They say it kind of gives you like somewhat of a high because it's like all the vitamins and like the minerals are actually still in the water. You can kind of taste it. So it probably tastes somewhat like metallic, if you will.

Yes. And that's actually a good way to figure out how to dose your own minerals is that you want to add like the concentrate mineral drops and you add that to your water, which I would do if I was in your shoes hiking, just to make sure that you're giving your body. Think about those pathways, like all the pathways. They have zinc and they have magnesium and they have sodium and calcium and potassium, all these things. And so when you're deficient in it, things are going to get stuck. You're going to have low energy. You're not going to be feeling good like you are Ryan. And so adding that to taste can be really helpful. So when you add the drops, it's going to be bitter and you want it to be maybe a little bit slightly bitter, which you can counteract maybe with like a pinch of sugar or something sweet, maybe monk fruit. But if it's too bitter, then it could cause digestive upset. So right up to the point where you can taste it. And it sounds like that's what you're doing. You're describing this crazy water. Yeah, a little metallic.

Do you have thoughts on like noon's tablets or anything like that? Because I'll do occasionally do like a noon tablet if you're familiar with that at all.

I'm vaguely familiar with it. As I recall, it's a pretty clean product. But what I'll do so that I can make sure to give you the best answer is I'll do, like a little paragraph, write up and send it to you. And maybe you could put that in the show notes.

For sure. Yeah. An episode on news tablets sponsor us. It's a. It's a. I don't know. Right. It's. It's honestly amazing. I feel like I feel the free. A lot of times I have a guest and it's like I get nervous to ask a question because I don't put them on the spot. They might not know this or whatever. It's like with you, it's like 99% chance, you know? And if you don't know, you know exactly where to look and define the answer within, like, five minutes. It's crazy.

And, you know, that kind of volleys into imposter syndrome, which is, how is that person going to respond to not knowing? And when I was earlier in my career, not knowing was really difficult for me because my capability and my value as a clinician, as a healer, as a person, one may even argue, was contingent upon knowing all of the things and having the right answers. Hmm. And so I feel much more confident in that. Cause I've done a lot of work on that. But you're sensitive to that, because asking somebody a question and they don't know the answer, you don't want them to feel, oh, my gosh, I'm so embarrassed I don't have the answer to that question. Then make something up or feel put on the spot.

Right. Which is why I like to send you and all my guests outlines beforehand. Just to confirm is like, you know, I don't want them to be like, I wasn't expecting this. I don't have an answer. Granted, it's a podcast. I can edit it out. It's not live radio or anything, so. But yeah, you mean you hit it on the head. You just did the segue there for me, and I.

You're welcome.

Yeah, for sure. You're like, that's gonna move on here. Just kidding. But yeah. So I wanted to dive deeper into the topic of imposter syndrome. And this is something that I grew up having. Sometimes I feel like most people probably do and did that. Maybe they just don't know there's a term for this. And I remember hearing a few years back, I was listening to some confidence thing or some kind of a podcast when they're talking about imposter syndrome. I was like, this sounds very, very familiar. I want to look more into this. And it's been on my to do list to have an episode on this. And I've wanted you to do this with me, but I also wanted to hit on a few other things with you too. So I did those first. Now we're back to imposter syndrome. So for the people listening, can you please give the definition of imposter syndrome?

It's basically anxiety masquerading as self doubt or intellectual fraud. And imposter syndrome is where you feel like you don't deserve to be in the position that you're in because you don't actually know what people think you know. And oftentimes with imposter syndrome, there's this great fear of being found out. So an example, a sign, you know, for you, listener sign that maybe you're dealing with imposter syndrome, is that you feel like you have to over prepare or you feel anticipatory stress before you have to present, or you feel like as you're speaking that you're saying it wrong, you're not doing enough and that people are going to read between the lines. And when I say that it's anxiety masquerading as self doubt and feeling like you're an intellectual fraud, I think it's really important to look at the umbrella of feeling like an imposter, feeling like a fraud, feeling like I don't actually know what I'm saying that I know feeling like I'm ill equipped for that thing that I'm being called to do is all of that is rooted in this part of you that feels, feels insecure, this part of you that feels anxious about meeting the demands. And not to go too far off on a tangent, but what's even more interesting to me is the why of that. It's like, okay, what if I am an imposter? What if I applied for this new job, got accepted for this position, and I actually interview much better than I perform? What is the worst case scenario? What are you afraid is going to happen? If you ask me a question about NOOM and I don't know the answer to what I feel is sufficient? What am I afraid is going to happen by my not knowing? Why do I care if I'm an imposter? And that, I think, is the question that's really interesting to explore.

Is it tied hand in hand with confidence?

It's tied hand in hand with confidence.

Yeah. Because there's some areas in my life that I would say that I probably still deal with it occasionally. Podcasting is kind of one of them, you know, like my graphic design work. I've been doing that for 17, 18 years now. I feel very comfortable and confident with what I can bring to the table, which is why I just interviewed so well to get this new job. I feel very comfortable with podcasting. I've been doing this for just over a year. I get better and better every time I feel like, you know, my interview skills and stuff. But yeah, one of the reasons that took me so long to start this damn thing was, you know, who's going to listen to me? You know, why am I more important than other people? I'm not that special. What can I bring to the table? A lot of doubts like that. And finally just says, screw it, I'm going to do it anyways. But I know we'll talk momentarily about, like, how to cope with this and how to deal with this. How many people would you say maybe we'll go with percentage or ratios, deal with imposter syndrome one way or another?

You know, that's really. I actually have that. Those statistics for you.

I imagine it's high, right?

It's really high. The numbers is probably going to surprise a lot of your listeners. And so there's a research study recently published by Kajabi. And so Kajabi is a leading knowledge commerce platform. And so they released a report, and amazingly, 85% of entrepreneurs report dealing with significant imposter syndrome. Feelings of self doubt, feelings like a fraud.

Yeah, I actually did a lot of research into before we had this conversation, and what I kept reading was high achievers are often the ones that deal with it. And I remember hearing a story. I don't remember the story, but I remember hearing it. Watching the Olympics with one of the. One of the Olympian swimmers, dealt with like imposter syndrome. Can you explain that?

A lot of high achievers, Tom Hanks, Emma Watson, Maya Angelou, Neil Armstrong, have all described dealing with imposter syndrome. And the high achiever part of it, I think, is because as a high achiever, there's a biological cause related to dopamine. But I also think that there is a sense of value that we place in achieving. I think you and I talked about the enneagram as it relates to this. And so for those who aren't familiar with the enneagram is it looks at the ways that we deal with trauma as people and the ways that we adjust to trauma, compensate for trauma, deal with trauma. And they've found. And this originated before written tradition. This came down from the Sufis. This is an oral tradition that was then modernized. And they've found that people sort of fall into one to nine of specific categories. And the achievers are their enneagram type thing3. And the way that these people deal with trauma is that they try to achieve. And so I resonate with that. I'm a three on the Enneagram. And so the way that when I was growing up, my dad was a Marine. And your value in the house was contingent upon what you produced, what you achieved, what you did. It was this mentality of you could go into poverty unless you get yourself out with the good old pull yourself up by your bootstraps kind of behaviors, and so you had to achieve. And so then in my brain, I have this belief system, this core belief that is rooted in an anxiety, a fear of failure, a fear of poverty that is driving this need to achieve. And so then we have this. This organic trauma. And then we have this drive. And the drive is trying to avoid suffering. And so you have this mentality of, okay, I need to achieve. And so then we see, see these incredibly innovators, these incredibly talented Olympians who are driven and fueled by this need to achieve. And then when they're achieving, we start to see changes in neuroscience, right? So let's just think about basic social media so that it could be relatable. So most people who are listening to this podcast are on social media in one way or form. And we've seen in the literature that when you post a picture or something online and you get a like, that your brain gets a dopamine hit. Dopamine is that feel good neurotransmitter, right? It's that, oh, I feel happy, I feel good. And you get that dopamine hit, and then you get another like, and you get another dopamine hit. You get another like, and you get another dopamine hit. And so then your brain, as we were talking about with minerals, your brain wants to create homeostasis, too. And so in its effort of creating homeostasis, it's going to change its production of dopamine based on what it's used to getting in. So then let's say the next day you post a picture, but Instead of getting 50 hearts on the Instagram picture, you only get six. And then suddenly we have dopamine deprivation, right? And so then you feel low and you feel sad, and so then this person, what we see is that these people are like, okay, how can I do better? I feel bad. I feel like I'm not enough. There's something wrong with me. I have to post the next big post and it can turn into this. It's like you're running on a treadmill. Right. And then we start to question ourselves and we have, like you said, Ryan, we have self doubt and then we start to feel like, oh my God, I'm an imposter and people are figuring it out. I'm not really valuable. There's something wrong with me and people are figuring it out.

Yeah, that social media thing is a really tricky situation. You know, I know you're active on social, I know you're a lot of your research and anxiety research is on social media. Do you look at your stats or numbers? How do you handle a situation like that?

I have found that my mental emotional well being ebbs and flows in tandem with my social media success. And so it's that same thing. Like I, so, and that's my jam is mental health and advocating for people with mental health. And my heart is in the place where I want to provide great content for people. But I do confess that I have that achieving foundation that I'm always working on where if I post something like I just posted a video on my favorite herbs for anxiety and 1,000 people watched it and I was like, wow, that's so awesome. And then I looked back at another video and I think I only had like 58 people watched it. And so I was like, oh my goodness, what did I do wrong? What can I do better? And really, I think what is healthier for me is to just stay off of social media and to let my helpers do that for me. And so that's important for my mental health is that I'll get in there and I'll interact with people that I know personally and I really love. But when it comes to the numbers and the stats, it's really, that's, that's hard for me.

Yeah, I mean, a lot of people don't all have helpers either. You know, it's just up to them if they want to be active or not. And they just have to be aware and cognizant of if it is kind of shifting their moods. It's. Social media is dangerous. It's, it's a great tool if used properly, but it's, you know, it can lead to a lot of depression and anxiety. And I'm just curious, do you, you know when you post something that gets a thousand views and you post something that gets like six or you know, 10, whatever you said, are you looking at it down to A science. As in, like, okay, what day of the week did I post this? What time was it? Are you looking into those numbers too, or.

No, I used to, and I was making myself nuts. And so now I have Haley and Brooke who do that for me. And apparently six o' clock is a good time to post more people are on social media at that time.

So Easter time or Pacific time?

I think Eastern, actually. Didn't ask Kaylee. Her brain is in Eastern time, so I just sort of assumed.

Okay, where is she located?

He's here with me when I'm in Michigan.

Okay. Okay. Is it, oh, Michigan's Easter time still.

Yeah. We're on the edge of the Eastern time zone, so the sun doesn't set till 10.

Oh, nice. Nice. Yeah. Because you know what's funny is, so my dogs have their own Instagram account, which is. Honestly, I'm more active on that. Then my personal stuff and the podcast and whatnot. I should be more active on the podcast. But I, for the first time ever, posted a reel of them last week on Instagram and boom, posted it. And it was like, like, like, like, like my phone started going crazy. I was like, this is what I've been missing. Like, I'm posting a reel of my dog. So I thought I figured something out because I went from having, I don't know, 50 to 100 views to like 500 likes or something. I was like, whoa. So I posted a reel again like 20 minutes later, and that bombed. It got like 10 videos, like, what? I thought I figured out the magic sauce here, and I was like, oh, never mind. Like, I don't, I can't figure out as far as, like, Instagram goes, like, the science behind it. But there probably is, there's probably smarter people with that than I am. But yeah, when you start looking into things like that deep that controls how you feel, it's a dangerous place to be.

And as an entrepreneur, that's profoundly impactful. And so if you think of somebody whose financial well being, their ability to care for themselves and their family is predicated on the success of their online presence, those highs and lows can mean more than my sense of value and what I'm bringing to the world. But it can could mean, am I getting a customer and am I going to be able to pay my bills?

Right. Yeah. Hopefully one of these days, maybe I'll get some monetary value out of the social media account. That'd be fricking wonderful. But until then, you know, I'm just going to continue doing, doing what I do. Putting good work out there, having fun with it, and we'll see where it goes. But, yeah, I'm curious to know. You said fear will drive achievers. Is that okay or is that dangerous as well?

Is fear driving achievers okay or dangerous? I like to ask the question, is, am I using my fear or is my fear using me? And statistically, one in five Americans struggle with anxiety. That number increases to one in three. Entrepreneurs struggle with anxiety. And it's all about the way that anxiety and we exist in relationships. The way that I think about anxiety or depression or headaches or whatever it is, is that these are messengers, and they're attempting to teach us something. They're attempting to give us data about an unmet need. And so if my anxiety is telling me, for example, that I have an unmet need of being lonely as an entrepreneur. Right. So being an entrepreneur could be a very lonely business. 61% of people are lonely, and that number is higher in entrepreneurs. So let's say that I feel lonely. I feel unsupported. I feel like I am on an island. And then when I put myself out there from that loneliness, I start to feel anxious. I start to feel, oh, my gosh, like I don't know what I'm talking about. I don't have any people behind me. No one's got my back. I'm just doing this thing on my own. And then I start feeling anxious. But then I push through that anxiety, and I let that anxiety motivate me. Is that honoring the anxiety, or is it telling the anxiety that you are wrong and that I'm going to overcome you by pushing and persevering? And what typically will end up happening if we don't address it is that the anxiety will amplify because the body wants, the mind wants you to hear the signals so that you can heal. And so to go, to circle back, to concisely answer your question is, anxiety is okay, but it's what you do with anxiety. Are you healing, addressing, honoring, respecting and meeting those needs, or are you using the anxiety as a catalyst to keep on doing that, which is making you anxious?

Wow. Okay. As you talk, I write down notes, and there's a lot of avenues I kind of want to hit on at some point. But the one word that I just wrote down was regret. Because I can imagine if you're not listening to those signals and you know you're not pushing through the anxiety, you're just going to be kind of sitting around thinking of everything you could have done and Everything you didn't do. How often, you know, doing what you do, do you deal with people who have major regret in life?

All the time, Ryan. I really, really admire that. Question is, I was just speaking with somebody. She's out in California and she's a very driven human. She's an entrepreneur, but she has a terrible fear of public speaking and her entrepreneurial career requires a lot of public speaking. And she was expressing to me and she was in tears and she was so just downtrodden yesterday because she feels like she has said no to so many growth opportunities to make a difference in her industry, to positively impact people. She has said no because the anxiety was what was driving her behavior. The anxiety was telling her. You told her she had imposter syndrome. Right. It said, you are unworthy to be speaking about this topic. You don't know what you're talking about. You don't belong here. People are going to figure it out. You are a fraud. And so she has regret because this feeling of imposter syndrome and the anxiety that that self doubt that's underneath of it stops her and then she says no and then she has regret. So I, yes, I hear that. That's so very common.

How is she? Is she practicing on getting better? Like, what advice are you giving her?

Yeah, we're working on it quite a lot. There's a lot of strategies that I can share with you. I have a couple blogs where they're all written out too, so I'll give you the links so that you can share it in the show notes. But I have how anxiety can make you feel like an imposter. And then I have three steps for that. She and I are working through those three steps. And then I also have five solutions for entrepreneurial mental fitness. So she and I are working directly on that feeling of imposter syndrome, but then we're also working on her mental fitness just as a whole person. Not just the anxiety, not just the self doubt, not just the imposter syndrome, but all of the other variables that are going into that fertile soil that is growing, that feeling of anxiety. Right?

Yeah. Honestly, I think fear drives some of what I do, but I think the feeling of regret drives me even more. I don't ever want to be regretful that I didn't try something or do something. And like I said, it kind of goes hand in hand, like with confidence. Like once I started to be more confident in who I was, what I can bring to the table, then it was more comfortable of me trying new things and When I try new things, I started to enjoy them. And then it was like, okay, well, if I enjoy this, I can try this and try that. And one of the things that comes to my mind is eight years ago, I was in a really serious relationship at the time. And, you know, like, we had talked about taking, like, vacations and traveling and stuff, right? And then so my mind was made up that I was going to take these trips with somebody. And, you know, when. When the relationship ended, it was like, it's okay. I'll just wait for someone else to come along and I'll. I'll explore and take these crazy adventures with somebody. And then a year went by, didn't happen. Another year went by, didn't happen. I was like, I started to regret just sitting on my ass and not doing anything. And I was like, forget it. I'm just going to start doing something. And as simple, as stupid as this may sound, or simple as this is, 15 is my lucky number. Right. So I remember when January 1, 2015, rolled around, I said, this is going to be my year, period. I'm making it happen. I'm just going to start saying yes to things. And that's when I was like, I'm just going to start doing it. And it's amazing how much, when you just take a step, how many doors start opening in different avenues, you know, like, let's see here. Like, the podcast, like, that took me a while to get over. Look at the conversation we're having now. You know, I'm almost on episode 50. The knowledge I have, right? Yeah, the knowledge. The knowledge I have, the people I've met, the relationships I've created is insane. All because I just took a chance, you know? So, yeah, I know that was kind of long winded, but like I said.

Can I ask you more about that?

Yeah, let's go for it.

Well, I'm curious how you got from that point A to point B. So you're expressing that you had this feeling of, oh, my gosh, should I. Like, why should I do a podcast? Who's going to listen to this podcast? Yeah, and so that's point A. And then point B is, I'm just gonna take this opportunity. This is my year of yes, I'm gonna do this. And. And then in between, right? There's all these feelings between A and B. Between, oh, my gosh and yes.

Yeah.

You know, anxiety, insecurity, self doubt, fear of regret.

All of it.

All of that. That soup, that can of soup, if you will. So how did you traverse between the two of those.

So as far as the podcast specifically.

Yeah, let's do it.

Great question. No, great question. So one thing I like to do for myself, and I hope most people would. Is to set yourself up to succeed. Right? I don't ever want to start something and just let it hang and just kind of give up and quit. If I'm going to start something, I want to see it through and I want to do it to the best of my potential. So to me, it was when I started to get really serious about it, it's like, okay, come up with a name that makes sense for the subject matter that I want to talk about. Well, my subject matters, it varies. You know, I think that's kind of what makes my podcast kind of fun too. You just never know what you're going to get. But so I was like, okay, so come up with a name. Think about it. And then once that happens, come up with, like, different topics and subject matters you want to talk about. So it's funny, one of the other words I wrote down that you mentioned probably 30 minutes ago or was prepare. I am an over preparer. And I was going to ask you about that. So, you know, I. I'm very creative by nature. It is just what I do. It's how I was born. There's a question I'll ask you about that too, later. Now that I just thought about that. But no. So I'm very creative by nature, but I also want to succeed. So it really. I took. I took my fricking sweet time. I have an issue sometimes with paralysis by analysis, so.

Oh, I feel you.

Yeah. And so, like, I didn't want to put out work that was going to be kind of crapped on and be like, this is terrible. Like, why'd you bother doing this? You know, I really wanted to take my time, figure it out, and have a plan of attack. I really dragged my ass on that. That was what took me forever. But once I kind of, like, started, it started to click. Once I started to come up with the name, I was like, okay, cool, I want to talk about this and I want to talk about that and I want to learn about this. And it just came. I became very comfortable with being the person that just doesn't know the answers and that I kind of turn into my benefit because it became me asking the questions that I don't know. And it's okay not to know because there are millions of people that don't know the questions that I'm asking. As simple as some of them are, you know, we can go Google some things or whatever, but you're not going to find everything either. And I'm just thinking of one of the podcasts I did a couple months ago was on real estate and buying a house. There are millions of people that know that, but there are probably a ton of people that just don't know, what does a mortgage mean? How does that work? And what does interest mean? And just really simple questions. And there was a big part of me that felt kind of stupid asking these questions that are just so basic. But then I kind of turn that in. My mind is like, that's what's going to make me a little different, is I'm going to be a podcast that asks sometimes the stupid questions, but people are afraid to ask that, you know, because it's just like, you know, you ever, like, I'm going to admit something, I'm curious. I probably shouldn't admit, but I never seen the Godfather. Right? I've never seen that. Neither of you. Okay. Are you ever afraid to, like, admit, like, I've never seen What? Are you kidding me? Like, you never seen that? You crazy? Like, that's how. Those are reactions. I try to avoid, like, a lot of, like, questions. What, you don't know this? How do you not know that? But, you know, it just. It took a long time to become comfortable. Like, listen, I don't know everything. My podcast can be based on talking to the experts, and they're going to give me the feedback and the knowledge that I'm asking for. And at the same time, like, applying a lot of that, just like your vitamins and supplements, like, I'm applying it to my life and I'm learning, and at the end of the day, it's making me a better person. It's probably making other people better. But, yeah, it's. I don't know if I'm answering your question. I'm trying to, but everything you said between A and B is something that I 100% dealt with. I definitely still still deal with sometimes. I also am starting to look more into the analytics and numbers on that podcast, whether that's good or bad. Yeah. But now the thing is, like, like I said, I want to set myself up to succeed. I don't ever want to start something knowing it's set up to fail. That's just, you know, it's a recipe for disaster mental health issues, feeling like crap, you know, So I had a plan, and sticking to the plan really helped. And, you know, like I said, subject matter Podcast title. How am I going to promote this? I can design the graphics. So I did the graphics, and then I have in my iPhone a notepad list of all the topics I want to cover. So one by one, I'm reaching out to people, experts like you, and it's like, do you want to talk about this? Do you want to talk about this? Some people don't respond. Some people just say, no, I'm too busy. Some people are like, hell, yeah. You know, it's a mixed bag. You just got to have a thick skin sometimes, too. And I will say I've gotten so much better at being a podcast host over the last year. Like, part of me doesn't want to listen to those first five or six or seven episodes. But, you know, another tough thing that I do, honestly, is every episode I listen to again, what can I do better?

Awesome.

Yeah, because you hear people on, like. Like news anchors on TV and stuff, and public speakers, you know, like, what's their body language? Are they, like, do they have, like, a tick? Do they keep doing something? Like, to watch yourself is brutal and excruciating. But that is how you get better. And there are words, there are phrases that I constantly say, like, that's awesome. You'll hear me say that's awesome probably 50 freaking times. And I'm taking note of it. I'm learning. But, you know, you also have to remind yourself you're not going to change overnight. It is a process. You just got to keep pushing through. And honestly, there are so many benefits when you push through things and you just start doing. You will learn. And so many more doors open than I ever thought. I never, ever thought I'd be sitting here talking to you for the third time. I've made friendships out of this podcast. I've learned so much. Yeah, you just can't see all the doors that are ahead of you. You have to know that. You have to trust it. You have to take the chance. But, you know, like I said, I'm also a preparer. And I don't know if you want to dive into anything I just said, but feel free to dive into prepare, because maybe that's my fear driving me. Is I over prepare?

Well, I'm kind of. I'm taking notes here and thinking about your intuitive structure, which I think is really, really wise. Because we think about the way that we perform, the way that we podcast, the way that we show up at our job, the way that we interact in relationships, the way that we public speak, whatever it is that we're being called to do. We're coming at it for better or for worse with our current selves, our past selves, our emotional selves, our physical selves, our logical selves, or lack thereof at that moment. So there's this whole. There's this. I kind of imagine it's like I'm a clown car and I'm showing up to where I'm going and all my little clown parts, we're all in there and we're all popping our heads out and having all these thoughts. Right. And so I'm imagining that clown car is driving us from point A to point B. And you're taking actually a really trauma informed perspective at the work that you're doing to help you to move forward. And so first of all, what I hear is that you progress, you strategize, and you're incredibly curious. So, yeah, that is really prefrontal cortex brain area. So starting with your skill set. And you're analytical, you're smart, you're also very curious and creative. And so when we think about the brain, we think about the prefrontal cortex is the front, the area behind the forehead, the logic brain. And so you're creating a template for success by utilizing that strength. So again, you're preparing, you're curious, you're strategizing, you're coming up with a name, you're thinking about how you want it to look. So you have that analytical part on board, which can help to reduce some of the insecurity that comes with feeling unprepared. That comes with part of why I may feel like an imposter is because I actually haven't prepared to be the expert that I'm wanting to show up as.

Right. Yeah, that makes sense. And my dad's an engineer, so I.

Have some of that.

Yeah. And it's funny, I want to let you keep going, but something that I just, I took. So I took an assessment, your workplace insights for my new job. Right. And they had me take this, this 10 minute test, answer these questions. So it says I got four bullet points of what I am. It says goal oriented, a hundred percent cooperative, which I do believe competitive, which is. Yep. And intellectually curious. So I think that hit me on the head. I don't know if you have any thoughts on those four bullet points, but yeah, I think that describes me perfectly.

Yeah. Your zone of genius is your prefrontal cortex. Like your logical analytical brain will take you far in life. And I think that's a really great asset. And so when we're Thinking about overcoming imposter syndrome or helping us not live a life of regret. To be. To live a life where our fears, our insecurities aren't holding us back is to really lean on your strengths. In fact, when we're thinking about our goal in life, the Japanese have this. This term is called ikagai. And they talk about when you're trying to figure out what you want to do with your life, there are three components to it. One is what are you really passionate about? The second is what are you good at? And then the third is what is valuable enough that the world will pay you for. What can you make a living doing? And what you're good at is you're great at being curious, which needs to be a part of being a podcaster, because you are curious. You're approaching people, you don't know all the answers. And you're okay with that?

I'm okay with it. It took a while for me to be okay with that because like I said, I felt like I was asking stupid questions, but I was like, you know what if I don't know this stuff, there's probably other people out there that are like, I'm glad he asked that. Now I know this.

You know, Exactly. And it feels good for the person who you're interviewing to be able to share something that maybe a lot of people are afraid to ask.

That's true.

I think that's also a real blessing to the interviewer. So you, you're. When you're thinking about. So as your listeners are listening to this podcast, start thinking about, well, what am I really good at? Am I analytical or am I more emotionally in tune? So I did content recently on Highly Sensitive person and the genes, the genetic traits that help people to have that evolutionary favorability of being highly sensitive, where maybe this person's really attuned to the feelings in the room. They can, they can kind of feel out the vibe of how somebody's doing before they even say, or maybe their zone of genius is being able to meet people where they are and have great empathy. And so when we're thinking about getting from point A to point B, where I hear you are, Ryan, is, number one is using that prefrontal cortex with strategy, that engineering trait you got from your dad, that your. Your workplace insights, goal oriented, cooperative, intellectually curious. So preparing ahead of time is really good. And then in using that part of your brain is you can actually start to train your brain to work for you instead of against you. So you were talking earlier about, I Don't want my anxiety to prevent me from saying yes to opportunities and then creating regret.

Exactly.

So your logical brain can be a huge part of that. So what you want to do if someone listening to this is like, well, okay, I'm really curious. I'm analytical. But my brain is also producing self doubt and it's like questioning myself and it's talking negatively about myself and it's reminding me of dumb things that I've said in the past or bad feedback I got. So using that analytical brain to actually speak up and address those thoughts and retrain them. And so we see this in the research by Dan Siegel, neuroplasticity. And in the research that's underneath cognitive behavioral therapy and dialectical behavioral therapy, or dbt. And what they teach us, what their research has shown us, is that you can actually rewire your brain. Your brain has incredible ability to grow and heal. This is neuroplasticity. So I'm going to read you a quote that I wrote out for if your listener or if you, or if I even myself are feeling insecure and are feeling like I'm at point A, I want to get to point B, but I feel like an imposter. I feel like a fraud. I feel like I don't deserve to be there. I feel anxious, I feel insecure. And maybe I should just stop. Maybe I shouldn't get on this podcast. Because what if Ryan asked, asks me a question, I don't know the answer, right?

I can edit it.

There's always editing. So for your listeners, this is what I want you to. And it's a little bit long and I can. It's on the blog. So essentially, so you can read it. But what I want you to say to yourself, okay, when the imposter joins the party, this is what you're going to say. These thoughts are not mine. These thoughts are from my imposter syndrome part. This part is a symptom of anxiety. And I am choosing to no longer let this part run the show. I accept that I don't know the future, but I can choose how I live now. So whenever the self doubt comes up, you acknowledge that part, you label the part, and you accept that that part is there. Because remember, what you deny will amplify, what you suppress will express, right? So you acknowledge, you accept, and then you choose to live the life that you want, which is what you do. Ryan, you're like, I'm 2015 hit one one, 2015. You're like, you know what? This is where I've Been. These are the no's that I've been saying. I've been waiting, and I am choosing to start saying yes to going on these adventures, right?

And I recommend that to anybody and everyone. Just say yes. Because something I have written down here that I ask myself constantly is literally, what is the worst that can happen? And I feel like people need to ask themselves that and give, you know, give an honest answer, you know, because I think people feel like the worst thing can happen is like 10 times worse than actually what really can happen. And, you know, in my mind, for nearly every time I ask that question, the pro majorly outweighs the con. Like, big time. Like, all these doors can open if I do this. This one might shut if it doesn't go well, you know, but you're going to learn from it and see that as a positive too.

So then logically, let's say that we're totally on board. You, you do that mantra. You just say yes. You figure out what's the worst that could happen. And it's okay. Logically, I get that. But if you're anything like me, your emotions are like, I don't care. I'm going to be anxious anyway. And that's what I was telling you about, my friend in California. And so who's terrified of public speaking and who's given up opportunities and has a lot of regret because emotionally, her emotional brain isn't on board with her logical brain. And so when we're thinking about brain science, just to do a zoom out again, as we're talking about three parts of the brain, the prefrontal cortex, that's the logical brain, that's Ryan, that's your zone of genius. Your logical brain is badass. It's amazing. And so we also want to increase our emotional brain fitness. You've probably heard of this as emotional intelligence or eq. And so when we're thinking about emotional intelligence, this is thinking about the limbic system, this is thinking about your midbrain, which is responsible for the production of emotions that can come regardless of thoughts. Sometimes we can feel insecure, we can feel doubt, we can feel regret, we can feel anxious, even though it doesn't make sense. Logically, you've gone down the list and it's just bananas. But we still feel that way and we can't help it, right? So what do we do when we have this limbic system overriding our logical brain? There's a couple of approaches. One is to do parts work. And Ryan and I did an amazing podcast about parts Work where we kind of walk through how to do that process. So go back and listen to that podcast where you want to go in and pay attention to that part. It's like we said at the beginning of this interview today, it's always like, well, why, why, why? What is that really about? Let's go deeper, let's go deeper. Always digging to try to find that nugget in the middle. And so we want to make sure we do that. But then there's also a hack to having control over your limbic system, and that's called gray matter. So gray matter is this wonderful thing that we have the ability to grow more of in our brain that can create highways between the different areas, your prefrontal cortex and your midbrain limbic system, and also your brain stem. And so what we can do when we grow more gray matter is that we will have more control over our automatic responses. We'll be able to reregulate ourselves much more quickly so that we're not just victims of our monkey brain having these reactions that we wish wasn't happening. Right? So gray matter, there are a few ways, and this is shown in the clinical literature. This isn't just Dr. Kane's opinion. This is actual science based literature you'll see coming out of again. Dan Siegel, the Amen Clinic we're able to look at gray matter on SPECT scans, functional MRIs, different types of brain imaging, and we're able to do studies where people utilize these techniques. And then we do it before and we do an after. And there are statistically significant benefits to it. And the first thing that you can start doing immediately is meditating.

And I need to do this, something I need to do. I'm terrified.

You have to do it. And they always say that if you only have time to meditate for five minutes a day, then you need to meditate for 20. If you only have time for 20 minutes a day, then you need to meditate for two hours. And as I'm saying this to you, I am a baby Transcendental Meditation practitioner. I just started training and learning Transcendental Meditation. And it is so beautiful, effective and easy. And I promise you, my teacher, he told me, he said, nicole, you are going to be who you are going to be, or you are going to be who you will be if you meditate, which is kind of confusing at first, right? So you are going to be who you are going to be, or you're going to be the person that you will be if you meditate, that the Effects are so profound.

I think I needed to hear that, honestly. Yeah. Because like I told you earlier, like I've been like a machine. I have so much going on, I don't freaking stop or sit still. And I can't imagine how much of a better machine I could be if I actually took that time to do that.

You got to meditate. That will make all of the difference in the world that will change your life. My teacher is trying to get me to do 20 in the morning and 20 at night and I am a non compliant student, so I'm calling myself out right now too. But if your listeners can simply start for five minutes a day, that is enough to be clinically significant. And the effects of meditation. So why, you know, okay, so Kane is telling me I'll get more gray matter. Why do I care? So if you feel like you have anxiety or depression or burnout or overwhelm or loneliness or imposter syndrome like we're talking about today, if you feel like you struggle with any of that, if you feel like you struggle with brain fog, cognitive fatigue, or maybe you're on the opposite end of the spectrum, if you feel like your thoughts are always racing and busy and distracted and it's hard to collect all of your ideas and to bring it all together. All of these have been shown in literature to improve with meditation. And it's non pharmaceutical meditation.

Do you have like an app or anything that you recommend people, like, download and follow? Something quick and easy.

I like Headspace. I think Headspace is a great app. No affiliation. You know, the. So I'm learning transcendental meditation and I'm not using an app for that. I have a mantra that I've been given by my guru. So I've been given a mantra. And then the way that I do it is you just notice the mantra. You imagine thinking the words of your mantra and you can receive a mantra from a teacher or you can just choose a mantra that you want to focus on. So if you want to focus on just say yes. You just focus on that and you just allow it to float. Kind of like you're just like a gentle thought. Like, just say yes. Just say yes. And then what will happen is that your brain is going to go, oh, I have that podcast with Ryan. I want to check in and see how things are going. Just say yes. And so if you can do that and then just breathe and notice that the process is not necessarily performance. It's not like, how long can I be in the. Just say yes. It's more about creating the space for redirection where I'm just allowing my mind to create that space. Go back. Create that space. Go back. So five minutes. Set some music up on your phone. Just say yes or whatever it is. Or using like. Sarah Blondin has some super awesome meditations that are really good. If you want to do more of a guided.

Yeah, I may start with that. I have a feeling that this is going to be the one part of this episode that it's like, like the last one you told me about the vitamins I should be taking. I feel like this is going to be the key thing that I'm going to take away from this, that I'm just going to really kind of force myself to do, honestly, because I know it'll benefit me. You're not the only one who has ever mentioned the benefits of meditation. You know, something I kind of want to get your opinion on too is my mind. Honestly, this is me just personally thinking about myself. I feel like my mind just does not stop working. It's constantly thinking of ideas, constantly thinking of trying to be creative, constantly thinking of my next podcast or who I can contact or what's the next episode about or, you know, if I have a. If I have a graphic design due tomorrow for my job, what's it going to look like? Constant gathering inspiration and creativity from out in the world and stuff. Like, I honestly feel like sometimes like it's going to falter. You know what I mean? Like, this can't be normal to constantly just be on all the time. And you know, for a good example, the last few weeks while I was interviewing for this other job and you know, I currently like where I work and it was giving me anxiety of like, do I really want to do this? Is this the job for me? Should I take this? Should I quit? If I quit, when do I do that? How do I get my 2 week notice? How do I tell the people that I really like to work with? And it's funny because falling asleep has never been an issue, but staying asleep, I would say around 4 or 5 in the morning, my mind will just wake up and it just starts like if the gears are turning. I saw, I just picture the gears returning and I'm just laying there for like an hour or two. It's like, well, my mind's awake now, it's already working, so might as well get up and start doing something. But will meditation help with that? Because I just feel like it's just constant. It will, yes.

Yeah, it's Cool. Because you're excited. You're brilliant. You're a dreamer. You're excited, excited. You're analytical. And what is happening is that your body is whispering, that it needs balance. Whispering. You wake up, it's whispering. And so your job is to hear those whispers and to say, I hear you.

I'm a worrier too, though, which sucks. I kind of care too much sometimes about what other people think. I'll like, you know, telling my boss I was, like, leaving, and how do I want to do that? When am I going to. There's a strategy behind everything I do, which freaking drives me nuts, you know, like, what time of the day I'm going to do that. And I don't know, I overthink things. And, you know, I love the way I think. I love who I am, I love what I bring to the table. But there are times like that where it's just like, just sit down and shut up and don't worry about it. Relax. Stop caring so much. But I do. And sometimes, like, my anxiety will get me up or wake me up. And I hate that. I like most things about me. I really do, but there's some aspects like that. It's like, why do I care so much? I don't know why I love that.

You care so much. I think it's a superpower. I think it's hijacking you and then it makes you feel upset about it. And so. So it's kind of like you were saying before. It's like when we think about the anxiety is that anxiety is intended, like our nervous system produces anxiety to tell us how to heal and how to be whole. And you're caring and your conscientiousness and your compassion are gifts that you have that you bring into this world. And your body is like, okay, well, this is how we can communicate to Ryan that we don't have balance, that we need more rest, that we need more quiet. We're going to turn this up. And he's got to listen.

That's good to know. Yeah. This is. This last 10, 15 minutes we've talked has been kind of eye opening. You know, it is really nice to know that I've noticed this. I'm very. I'm very self reflective. I understand who I am, my positives and kind of like my negatives, if you will. And knowing that meditation can help with that, I think that's just. That might have been the final thing that needed to click in my brain and be like, you need to do this. You need to There is amazing major benefit for myself in doing that. So I honestly feel like I have to do that. I have another question for you too. Is I. I'm kind of a weird subject matter, if you will. So the first 20 something years, 25 years of my life, I thought this was normal, too. Is. Are you familiar with synesthesia?

Yeah, yeah, yeah, Synesthesia.

Yeah. I thought this was completely freaking normal until about. I'd say, about 25 years old. I remember having a conversation with a friend, and I was like, you know, when you see letters and dates and numbers, do you see colors with that too? And you're like, what are you talking about? I was like, I thought this was normal. So then I started to look a little more into it. And, yeah, it's like a lot of letters and dates and months and stuff like that. I kind of compare it to, like, when growing up as a kid. You have the call the letters in the Alphabet on your fridge, right, with all the magnets and stuff.

Yes. Yeah.

That is. I have a ridiculous memory sometimes when it comes to numbers and dates and statistics and whatnot. I thought that was normal for the longest part of my life and how I can remember certain things. Like, a lot of times, like, if you were to tell me your birthday, I would think of it as a color. And so, like, if I need. If I needed to recall that, I would tap into that color. I'd be like, oh, she was like a dark red, which probably means she was in September. And, you know, it's just. It's just. It's crazy. Have you ever had to deal with anything like that?

I have one of the. So I own a counseling practice, and one of my counselors has that gift. One of my best friends, I lived with her in college. She's an audiologist. She had the superpower synesthesia. We think that it's a genetic trait. I think of it as, like, an evolutionary advantage. And if I'm remembering correctly that they are doing some research to try to isolate that gene. But it's interesting. The way that I've seen it impact people is it's almost like an additional sense. You know, we talk about the six senses. I see it as an additional sense, which, again, it can use us and create stress and strife for people, or we can use it, like, you have to help you have a memory. Like, oh, it was a red. And so it was probably sometime in the fall.

Yeah. Well, it's funny because. Well, one, yeah, I was doing research on this while it's been a while since I have. I know they were saying they were looking at to see if it's related to the autism gene. So when I was like probably 8 years old or something like that, like, I picked up the piano, Boom. Picked up super fast, Just rocked it out. Like, to this day my parents are like, you pick that up so fast, music you were playing and everything is funny because they can compare it to my sister. So my sister and I did similar things at similar times. And they had. You can kind of compare the two where we were as far as like the level and the skill set. And she's like. I was like, yeah, you were two and a half years younger, but you advanced so fast as far as musically gifted and trying to think what else. Yeah, like super creative, obviously. Like, I've been drawing and all that since I was a kid. My sister still to this day gets super mad at me. That. So do you remember overhead projectors in high school?

Oh, yeah.

So overhead projectors, back in the day, that's how everybody took notes. The teachers wrote down stuff and you have to copy it. Right. All throughout middle school and high school, all my teachers would tell the stories in the overhead projectors, write down the notes, and I would remember it from that. And then I would do very A's in high school and whatever. Right. And so my sister would spend hours and hours and hours studying, not remember things. And she's like, what the hell? How do you not study? I'm in my room for 10 minutes just going over everything and she's taking hours. And my grades are better than hers and stuff. I drove her insane. But, yeah, this is something that took me a very, very long time for me to figure out that I am a little different. You say gifted, I guess it's up for debate. I'm not going to pronounce myself as that, but it is a little. It is a little different. It's funny how another just random story too is one of my good buddies sent out an email that we thought it was the funniest thing ever, right? It was some. So it doesn't really matter, but it was some ebay buyer that was like kind of giving them strife or whatever. We were just laughing at it. And I think about 10 years later we were talking about that email. He's like, that's got to be in my outbox. And I was like, yeah, I remember exactly what day that was. And I still do, actually. It was January 5, 2005, and he sent it at 9:38. And it's just ridiculous. I can start because we had this conversation 10 years ago for something that happened, I think about six years before that. And it's just, it's so stupid that I could remember stuff like this. And amazing. Well, the thing is that took me a long time to understand is people just don't remember stuff like me. So it's like, you don't remember that. You don't remember I said that. Do you remember that conversation? And the constant answer is no. And it took me a long time for people to be like or for me to realize that people just don't have that recollection. And I just, okay, I have to understand that. And that's okay. They, it's not like they weren't paying attention. They just don't remember the stupid stuff that I do.

Your brain has this incredible potential for you to use it in ways that I think are beyond what you've probably imagined at this point. You just have so much computing power up there. And what I love about your curiosity is that you're always wanting to take that next step. You're always wanting to cross from A to B. You're always wanting to say yes because you don't want to live in regret. And you've acknowledged and you've done the work and you've inspected what it means to have self doubt imposter syndrome. And all of these things, I feel like are catapulting you into this wonderful way of being in the totality of who you are that can make such a huge impact in your personal life and in those that you love in the world. So I feel like just to emphasize what you're saying, it's like, I think it's a gift. I think in the literature we see it as a gift. And through meditation, I'm so excited to talk with you in a year from today and to see how that part of your psyche, how that part of your brain transforms with the meditation. So I think there's really cool stuff in store for you.

Oh, that's awesome. Yeah, that makes me super happy and excited. Yeah. Not to sound like conceited or cocky or anything, but like, I remember having a conversation probably five or six months ago with my girlfriend and I said, listen, like, I'm starting to understand, like the way I remember things, the way I think about things, my creativity, it's just, I think it's a little different. And I remember telling her, like, I think I'm capable of so much more. And I was like, I don't necessarily know what that is, but I know, it's not sitting on a computer creating graphic designs all day. I love doing that, and I'll continue to do that. It's my career. I'm good at it.

It.

But I said, I know I have the mind that's capable of doing something greater. I'm still trying to figure out exactly what that is. And I remember saying, like, it might be this podcast. It might be tapping into knowledge and curiosities and bringing stuff like that to the world. I feel like I can do more. I am capable of doing more. My mind allows me to do great things, and I'm still trying to understand that. And, you know, like, talking to someone like you, I get, I think, helps me understand that. And also, like, the fact that I really need to start meditating maybe will also allow me to figure some of that out or tap into some, you know, potential that I may have and not see or something. But, yeah, it's funny. I. I just had this conversation with her a few months ago. I was like, I know I'm. I know I'm capable of great things. I just. I don't know what it is, but I know I can have a legacy, you know, Then maybe this is it. We'll see.

Absolutely. So this is going to be recorded. So we're going to come back and we're going to say, all right, this is. This is how some of this was catapulted.

Yeah, that's. That's very true. Yeah. And I really, really need to stick with it. Do a meditation, get into the routine, a bear routine, so once I can start getting it out of my routine, and I'll be okay, I'll be good to go. You know, we can tap into any of the subject matters we just talked about over the last hour, and I'm more than happy to do that. One thing, one question I have is, what do you. What's your take on the phrase fake it till you make it? Is that a good or bad?

I think it can be good in that it falls into that prefrontal cortex, intentional wiring of your brain. So it's like, I did a high ropes course last weekend, and I. I'm competitive, Ryan. I wanted to do the double black diamond, even though I have, like, the teeny, tiniest biceps of the world. But I was like, you know what? I'm gonna do this. And so in the process, I'm, like, dangling because I'm. There's this rope with an octagon wood beam, and you have to, like. But it's like swinging and Then I fall, and it's, like, exhausting. And you know what? Every time I stepped up on that beam, my brain got signals and it's learning, and I'm not, you know, jumping on these beams and, like, going through the course, the Black Diamond Chorus, I'm spending a good deal of time dangling, but I am kind of faking my way through it. I didn't. I'm not. I don't know what I'm doing on a Black Diamond Tyrone course, but I did it. And when I do it next time, I'm probably going to be slightly better. And when I do it the time after that, God willing, I'll be slightly better. And it's like you and your podcast, you know, you're expressing, like, listening to the initial episodes, like, kind of cringy. But you kept doing it. Even though you didn't feel like you were the most excellent you can be, you did it anyway. And I think that faking it till you make it can be a good way of taking some of the pressure off. I have a teacher who, he's arguably one of the best instructor and practitioners in his area of emphasis. He treats schizophrenia, and he uses homeopathy really successfully and, like, unheard of. Nobody does that. And he won't teach it. He won't do recordings of it because he feels like he doesn't know enough yet. And I've expressed him, you'll never know enough because this is a lifelong learning process. And so he's been saying no, and people are missing out because he wants it to be perfect before he'll say yes. And so I feel like the fake it till you make it would really give him some freedom to put information out there without it being perfect. And it freed me up to do that high ropes course knowing that I had itty bitty biceps.

Yeah, I mean, I imagine your client that is super afraid of public speaking speaking also can probably learn from that, too. You know, it's. I just had a dating coach on last week, and we were talking about, like, how where the confidence comes from and stuff. And, like, how years ago, I'm super afraid to, like, approach a girl and say, hi, how are you? And then try to get her number and stuff. But the more you just talk to random people, like, the easier that becomes, you know, So I just. I related to that. And yeah, I definitely, you know, I've had a mind switch, I would say, in the last 10 years or so. And I'm also thinking of, like, a situation where it's probably about 10 years ago. And I'm downtown with them like a buddies. And there's this girl that I had seen a few times, like at the gym or wherever. I forget, I don't know who she is, but he's like, why don't you go talk to her? And I remember saying, like, she's out of my league. I remember saying that. And I remember his spot. His response was, no one is out of your league. And. And to this day, I was. I. That helped click something. Sometimes just hear things, like your meditation things just helped click something in the brain. And just having that confidence. And you know what? That's freaking. That's damn true too. No one is out of my league. You know, it's like my girlfriend, I'm. I am super lucky to be dating her and I know she feels super lucky to be dating me. We deserve each other. But yeah, it's. I. That really, honestly stuck in my mind about. And I know that's just for dating, but I know that can be translated throughout so many different subject matters as well.

What an antidote to imposter syndrome too, right? You know, imposter syndrome is I'm a fraud and people are going to figure it out, which implies that somebody is more qualified than you or better than you and having that mentality. No one is out of my league. I think it's that prefrontal antidote to nobody has Ryan's experience, Nobody has Nicole's experience. Like, we come to the table with a complete unique set of thoughts and experiences, and it's like comparing apples and oranges. Like, I'm not out of your league. You're not out of my league. You may know more about graphic design and I may know about ego state therapy, but together we can create this amazing synergistic podcast that other people can learn from. And so I actually wrote that down. I think that's a giant take home for me today too, is no one is out of your league. It's comparing grapes and two by fours.

Yeah. And another thing too, that honestly has helped me a lot, honestly in the last few years or so is like, yes, I have an insecurity, right? I have insecurities. But the thing is, too, is like every. Everybody has insecurities. We are all human. You know, there's people you've seen post on Instagram, they get 3 million likes for being in a bikini or whatever. Yeah, honestly, they probably are dealing with some. Some big insecurities too. They probably took about 200 photos to get that one. They probably have a Filter on it and all that stuff. You know what I mean? So just know that, like, we all have issues, and I feel like that put me at ease with so many different things. It's like, you know, we all have insecurities. We're dealing with something you. You'll just never know. This podcast gave me a platform to be kind of vulnerable with mine, which I feel like has been very therapeutic. It's great. It helps me connect with people, and they're like, before you know it, it's like, I have that too. You know what I mean? And it just makes you feel better, and you're like, you know, so this girl who's your client is public speaking. You know, something I would probably do just for myself is make a joke out of it in the beginning. If you hear me stumble or something, I just suck at doing this. And let's move on. You know what I mean? You can just call it out. I feel better when I just call it out and move forward. So it's like instead of sitting there wondering, everyone's pointing the finger, whispering about me, like, oh, I wonder if he knows this. Or I noticed that I call it out right from the get go, make fun of it, and move forward. So everyone else is kind of on the same page as you.

Yeah, I think that's brilliant. And just remembering that, like, Tom Hanks, he's one of the most lovable people. He has imposter syndrome.

Exactly.

And so if Tom Hanks has imposter syndrome, then it's okay that I have a little bit of it too, and that it may not be exactly how I perceive it to be. And so doing the work, doing the healing. And I'll send you the links so that, you know, your listeners can kind of walk through some steps to start tackling imposter syndrome. And then if. If we don't get anything else out of this conversation today, you know, if your listeners are like, okay, what. What's one thing is if you make one change. Today is meditate five minutes a day, Pull up headspace, pull up Sarah Blondin, and maybe pick a mantra. Just say, yes, no one is out of my league, whatever it is, and just be in that space. And I think that will be hugely transformative for every single person listening.

And not only that, is just listening to two people literally talking about imposter syndrome who have imposter syndrome. You know, like, it makes you certainly relatable and makes that person feel like they're not alone. Like, you know, like, everyone deals with this. You Know it's just finding a way to cope with it and don't let it beat you and take advantage of it. So, you know, I can keep talking to you for another five hours. I know. You know that.

Hopefully. Really fun. I love interviews. I am always so grateful to have an opportunity to connect with a good friend.

This is so awesome. Like I said, take advantage. Take me up on that little miniseries if you want. I am always game. But until then, I'm going to come up with another topic for us to talk about. For all I know is meditation. Maybe it's. Maybe it's a check in a little bit down the road and we can talk about how I'm doing and whatnot.

You can have an accountability check in, make sure that. That I'm continuing to meditate and that you're doing your meditation, too.

I like that. So would you say every. Every day, seven days a week?

Seven days a week.

Okay.

And if you don't have time for that, Eight days a week.

Right. I get that. I like that. I like that a lot, Dr. Cain. So before I let you go, please just go ahead and pub your social media again, pub your websites, and we'll try to get you more likes through this podcast. Right. So it'll put you in a good mood.

Yes, that would help my dopamine. If you can go to my Instagram. Dr. Nicole Gain. D R N I C O L E C A I N in the link in the bio, I have tons of free goodies. And so if anyone listening struggles with anxiety or you just want to simply improve your physical health, just like Ryan and I talked about with supplements, I have tons of free info, so just click on the link up in the bio. And we also respond to all of our chats, all of our DMs, and so if you're looking for support, we do our very best. I have an awesome team, Brooke and Haley, who helped me out. So make sure that you check out our stuff and then stay tuned because it sounds like Ryan and I are going to be holding each other accountable. So maybe you can jump on the bandwagon too. How can you meditate?

I love it. This is so awesome. The information you bring every time blows me away.

Yay.

Blows me away. Like, I'm getting to the point now where I feel like I can just book you and be like, I don't know, we're going to talk about. Let's just sit and chat. And it's going to be super educational.

It's going to be so fun.

Thank you.

I learned so much from you, too. I'm really grateful for you.

Awesome. I appreciate that. And hopefully, you know, I know anybody listening to this learned a ton. A ton. So, once again, Dr. Kane, thank you so much. I will get this up and out as soon as I possibly can. I'll be in touch with Haley and you're welcome back anytime. I know you already know that, so thank you. Thank you so much for that.

Thank you so much. So much. Love to you.

Thank you, Dr. Kate. Have a wonderful day.

Thank you.

Bye. I can honestly say I feel truly blessed sometimes after I do these podcasts and. And a conversation like that is exactly why that was just such an amazing conversation with Dr. Kane. Her knowledge is just ridiculous. That's the word that comes to mind. It's absolutely ridiculous how much she knows and how many different categories. And as you can tell, I tried to tap into a few of those today while I had her time, but I will have her back on. Once again, thank you so much, Dr. Kane. That was such an enjoyable experience, and I hope that helped you listeners understand what imposter syndrome is, how to deal with it, as well as meditation and the importance of meditation. And I need to start asap. But with that said, I also would like to thank you for listening to this episode of the Pursuit of Happiness. Please follow me on Instagram at the Pursuit of Happiness podcast. Please leave a review and a rate. I really do appreciate that. And if you have a story or an experience or know someone that does that you think would make a great episode, please just DM me or go to my website, iamryanmcguire.com podcast. That is iamryanmcguire.Com podcast. I'll catch you all next time on the Pursuit of Happiness podcast.