Heal Anxiety From the Inside Out with Dr. Nicole Cain

Her name is Thais Gibson.

Thais Gibson.

Thais Gibson. Thais Gibson. Thais Gibson.

Thais Gibson.

I hope I pronounce her name properly. Thais Gibson.

I am so excited for you to be here with me today. Thank you for joining us. Thank you so much for being here today. Dr. Nicole, really excited to have this wonderful conversation with you. I love the topic and the notion that anxiety can actually be very much affected by our diet, our lifestyle, our gut health, so many of these different arenas of life. So before we dive in, do you mind just sharing a little bit about your background and how you got really passionate and interested in this industry to begin with?

My whole passion and panic is to prove to myself that we can actually heal from anxiety. Because growing up, that wasn't the conversation. The conversation is you manage it, and it's just a fact of life. And I didn't see how that made sense. You know, you fall down and you scrape your knee, your body's going to heal that even without you paying any attention to it. And then as we've expanded our awareness of neuroscience and the brain's ability to heal and the nervous system's ability to rewire itself, it just didn't make sense that we couldn't heal anxiety. So I've been on a mission for more than a decade to figure out how to create a relationship with panic and anxiety that actually promotes healing. And so my background is in. I studied psychobiology in college, which is the science of how our psychology, our emotions in our brain can be impacted by, and then, of course, impact our biology. In college, I did research, and it was from a very sort of scientific, biochemical angle. And then I went and I did oncology research at the Baylor College of Medicine. And I was like, gosh, I. I don't know if I want to be a researcher. I want to work with people. So I decided to go to counseling school. I went to school in Chicago. I got my master's in clinical psychology. But there's a moment. Can I tell you about this moment that, like, changed everything for me?

Absolutely.

Okay. So I'm working in Lake Forest, Chicago. So it's a suburb, a northern suburb of Chicago. And I'm doing group therapy with adolescents who are struggling with substance use disorders. And so the girl to my right, her drug of choice was cocaine. And so she's really dealing with, recovering from that. And I remember this one night, so she's talking about her cocaine use, and she has a caffeine drink. I don't remember if it was a Red Bull or a monster or whatever it was. But it's 8 o' clock at night, she's drinking something highly caffeinated, she's using a stimulant drug and she's very anxious. And so in my mind I'm kind of side eyeing her and I'm like, I feel like there could be a relationship here between her, her habits, her lifestyle and part of her anxiety. But there is a lot of bureaucratic red tape about what was in our scope as counselors, what we could provide education on, what we could do. And so we ended up referring her for the lifestyle pieces to a psychiatrist who then prescribed her a drug called Ambien or Zolpidem, which is a controlled substance that it knocks us out so we can go to sleep. And so now we have this developing brain who's trying to recover from substances, tons of trauma, she's drinking caffeine at night and now she's taking a controlled substance. And I was like, oh my gosh, I cannot be a part of this system. This is so broken. And I, I felt like I can't just sit back and watch this happen without doing something. So I was like, all right girl, we gotta make a change. So I got on Google of all places. This was like years ago. And I was in Chicago, I'm from the Midwest and the US and I didn't know really much about complementary integrative medicine. And I discovered a naturopathic medical school in Arizona. And within three months I started school there and the rest is history. You know, I studied medicine, I studied anatomy and physiology and pharmacology and I shadowed under psychiatrists. And I continue. I got trained in EMDR therapy and had my own rock bottom moment. And then I finally that I needed back then. And that brings us to me getting to talk with you today.

Wow, what a beautiful backstory. I love how much in your journey you really didn't just focus on only the body or only the mind, but really the integrative approach between the two. Because I think that's so important. And I love that you have such a rich background on both sides of things. That's super exciting. So let's talk about it. So, so before we go into that, you did mention, just very briefly that I had my own rock bottom moment. So I can't let you glaze over that. Are you able to share just a little bit about what that was and what maybe the key takeaways were and how that actually transformed you in your own life to get to where you Are today.

Yes. I am honored to share that story. I ask my clients and my. My community to be vulnerable with me so we can heal. And so I love the honor of being able to share that and be vulnerable with my story. And so there's a little bit I won't tell my whole life story. I know you're not my therapist, but I'll tell you a little bit of context is I was raised in a Midwestern family that was very, very Dutch, and my dad was a Marine. And so there was a lot of seriousness and rigidity and authoritarianism and just not a lot of room for big feelings or really many feelings besides anger. And so there was a lot of that growing up. And when I teach about anxiety and panic is we want to look at our story. We want to look at our history and look at where our mind, our body, our nervous system, and our other organ systems where they've adapted to try to protect you in whatever was going on in your circumstances. For example, you live part of the year in the north, and so when it's cold, you put on a big coat, and you live part of the year in the South. And so you've adapted to the south and the warmer climates, you take off that coat. Similarly, when we go through adversity and trauma, we adapt. But when our circumstances change or when life goes in a different direction, if we don't continue to adapt, it's sort of like going to the south with that big coat on. It can create its own set of symptoms that may have been helpful when you were in crisis, but no longer are helpful. So I entered life putting on this big, fluffy coat. It protected me, but it set the stage for later. And so if we fast forward, when I went to college, I was on six different prescriptions for all sorts of things. I had congestion and allergies, caused lots of anxiety, and then saw some sedatives. And so I had all these symptoms with medications, symptom medication, getting no healthier. And I also had this history of trauma, feeling unsafe, out of control. And now we have the body being modified or modulated by these medications. And then I go through medical school, and I do really well with structure. So I was whacking it. I was like, making calendars and paper with colored pens, having the time of my life. I love medical school, but then when I graduated, I was building my own business, and I was in a situation that, for me, wasn't healthy. The environment, the people that I was with, wasn't healthy. And it started, I went to bed at night, and I'd be laying and I'm trying to go to sleep. And then I'd have a thought like, oh my gosh, you gotta call Susie. She hasn't scheduled a follow up. Or oh my gosh, I should add six more people on this next week because I have this expense coming in. Oh my gosh, I forgot to do this. And then suddenly those oh my goshes started to occupy more of my night. And then the less that I slept, the more stressed I got about sleeping, the more anxious I got. And then it started a whole spiral. And then there's this whole fear of the fear. This loss of power. Yeah. And so my expertise, though, my zone of genius, is integrative and complimentary ways to help people with anxiety. So I was like, okay, I'm going to use all the tools that I have. I know herbalism, I know meditation, I know, are you beta? I know acupuncture, I know breath work. I know mindfulness. I know about oil pulp, pouring oil on your third eye. I know about prayer. I knew all the things, all of the tools to make my anxiety staff, and they weren't working. And I was like, oh, my God, I'm an imposter. I'm a failure. And my symptoms were so severe, my friend, it was like horrifying. There was like burning under my chest, my stomach, I couldn't eat, I lost so much weight. I stopped having my period. And I was like, this is going to kill me. And it was horrifying. And in the midst of that, I made a life changing and profound discovery. And that by trying to suppress my symptoms with all of the natural and pharmaceutical things I could get my hands on by relinquishing my power and control to the authority, the doctors, the experts, that in its mercy, my symptoms would rearrange themselves and find other ways to present themselves. And that was my tipping point. And so then the. My whole mission since that point has been what I learned and how I healed.

Oh, my goodness, I love that. And I love that you are able to. And what I hear in that is that every time you try to suppress the symptoms in different ways, your body would try to communicate again in a different form to get you to hear it. And so I love that it sounds like that big, profound discovery ended up being that you had to listen to your body in a different form. So I'm curious at what happened next. So you're doing all these things that in, in other cases, might have helped, but where did you go with it? To, to get to the place that you are now and to get more regulated and grounded. Did that become more nervous system regulation work or changes in diet? Like, what were those next steps?

One of the things I teach about is the obstacle to cure. And so when we look at what our symptoms are saying, just like you said, there are voices, they're trying to tell us what needs healing and how. And one of the things they tell us about is what could be causing our symptoms. And so for some people, they're. They live in a mold infected house and for other people, they're in an abusive relationship or other people, they have a genetic mutation where they can't process folate. So the methylation gene. Yeah, yeah, girl, you got it. Yes. I saw your eyes light up. That's such a cool topic to just dive into. I have like so many stories and so obstacles to cure can be huge. And so what I was doing is I was focusing on what I can do or take to suppress my symptoms, but I wasn't looking at the obstacle to cure that my symptoms were telling me is taking place. And what it actually ended up being is what I hinted at in the beginning of the story is that the work environment that I cultivated was really deleterious for my health. So I had to move. And so there is so much power in a pattern interrupt.

Yeah.

And so while you're in an environment that's producing panic and anxiety, no matter what you do, in its grace and love and wisdom, your body will continue to produce panic and anxiety until you get out of that place. It's making you sick. I had to move. And then all of the other stuff that I started doing, it worked. It was amazing. It was like that one piece of the puzzle.

I have seen this. So I worked in practice for about 10 years and I've been in running our programs at the personal development school for the last five. But I've seen that time and time and time again, which is your body will let you know until you actually change that specific situation that's there beneath the surface. So I think I just want to almost sit on that one for a moment for our listeners and dive a little more deeply into how can someone. Somebody. Because the power of denial is strong and the power of not really wanting to look as strong as. Well, you know, if somebody is, they have this sort of sneaking suspicion that they may have a version of that. First of all, how can somebody even recognize that who might be listening right now if they're seeing all this distress in their body and and they feel like, okay, I'm trying all these different external things and they're not working. Can somebody recognize what you just called the obstacle to cure?

Oh, my gosh, what a profound question. And I think that the answer is, number one, is practicing radical acceptance. And this is hard for me because I'm going to use a word that follows this, that most people, including myself, are going to be like, oh, no, I don't like that. But I think that that's the first step is radical acceptance is, in some senses, hopelessness, that something is going to change. So if I'm in a situation that is harmful and I'm like, I'm in a fight in this situation, I'm going to do what I can to change it. We're trying to have power, connection and control, right? And so I'm hoping it'll get better. I'm hoping it will change. I'm hoping that this person or that person, that we can relate differently. But that isn't acceptance. And sometimes with radical acceptance, there will be situations in our life that we have to accept it is what it is, and that means that we're hopeless, that that will change. So while I stayed in a lack of acceptance about my situation, I was unable to look at it as a probable factor in my suffering and do anything about it. And so that's the first part. How did that land for you as it hit you? Because for me, when I. That, like, dropped in and I was like, nope. Oh, wait, okay.

Well, I wasn't thinking of it in the context of my own life because I'm not sure if there's something. I mean, there could. I'm sure there's always things that need or could change. But I was thinking of it from the context of the listener, and I was thinking, that's such a hard thing to hear, but such a powerful thing to learn. And I started wondering what people would probably think when you said that. And I thought that there's probably a group of people that. That just hit it, that hit so strongly and was so profound. And then there's probably another group of people that are like, yeah, but maybe it's still could change whatever that is, whether it's a relationship or their work situation or maybe their own habits with, like, money or their career. You know, there's so many different sort of aspects of life. So how do you come to the point for that group of people and say, here's how to determine that it won't change? So, so I. I'll. I'll give an example for why I'm asking. We have people in our programs and I talk a lot about, like, relationships and attachment theory, attachment styles, And I tell them, like, if you're not sure that it's the right relationship, set a deadline, and in that deadline, pour everything in. So let's say you say, I'm going to give this everything I can for the next three months. Work on your communication patterns, work on your triggers, work on regulating your nervous system so you can approach communication and boundaries more effectively. All these things do that back work, pour in for three months. And if the needle didn't move, you know that that's not the right person. So what about for those people who are still, like, hanging on in that moment? Because I really love this, this topic, and we'll go into some other deeper things in a moment, but what do you say for people who are still kind of hanging on by a thread thinking, well, it could. It could still change. Is there any sort of insight you have there for them?

I think that anything that changes is changeable. And the most empowering part of this whole conversation is what do I need to do in my own process to be okay if this doesn't change, to accept that this may not change. And so if that's the case, maybe it will. Maybe like you're saying, like, I'm on the fence, maybe it will, maybe they'll change, but I need to come to a place of acceptance, then it may not and be okay with that. And so if that's the case, then what do I need to do in my own process to come to that place? Like, for me, I need to accept that the toxic dynamic that I was in, I needed to come to a place to say, like, okay, I accept that this is very likely not going to change. And am I okay living in that acceptance? Is that how I want my life to be? Maybe it will change, but I can't control that. So if I look at what I can control, that's how I relate to that. And so then in terms of doing that work, you know, someone's listening to this conversation and they're like, on that line, they're like, okay, I may accept that they won't change, but then what do I do is you gotta do your inner work, you gotta do the shadow work. You got to do the parts work. And we can have so much fun talking about what that could look like.

I love that. I think that's really, really beautiful. So. So let's go back for just a moment. So you talked A little bit about, you know, the, the obstacle to change. So you're starting, somebody's feeling anxious, they have this background anxiety. Their body is now letting them know. So that first big step is like radical acceptance is what I'm hearing, which I think is absolutely beautiful. And then as they get into that next piece, do you start seeing their symptoms resolve at that point or do you start seeing, hey, there's some next steps that they have to take. And I'm curious if we can talk about those from, from both. You know, I love all the, the parts work and the shadow work, but I want to talk about the, the physiological perspective as well. Like how do you bridge, with your expertise in this area, how do you bridge what we can do for our body and what we can do for our mind?

I love this. So I think about it as a four step process. And so when we accept that means that we're not avoiding what kind of information is coming up for us. When we accept it and we lean into it, then the body doesn't have to shout anymore. So oftentimes if we try to resist panic and suppress panic or whatever the symptoms, my heart racing if I try to resist it oftentimes that will get louder. And so then what happens is acceptance will put us into the first of the four step process. I call this the panic reset. And so step one is then calming the nervous system because biologically when we are in autonomic arousal or that fight flight, freeze, that the brain switches into something that's called the default mode network. The default mode network is like your autopilot team. That part of your brain is ruminating, it's trying to figure out how to have control. It's feeling anxious, it's thinking about itself. It's very hyper aware of its own. It's kind of like driving your, your car down the highway on autopilot and you need to take an exit, but you're like, nope, autopilot it is, right? And so that's when your nervous system is aroused and it's really adaptive. So if you're, if your ancestors were gathering berries in the woods and they heard the roar of a tiger, if they're like thinking critically about it, like, I wonder what that tiger's doing, I wonder where it came from. It's going to eat you. But if you can go into autopilot and just be like, fight, flight, freeze, run from that tiger. Those are the ones that survive. So the brain, we'll go into autopilot. And so if we can calm the Nervous system. We start with acceptance. We go into nervous system calm and we can talk about nervous system calming techniques like the breath, the vagus nerve hack things.

I would love to, as we can break down, can we break down for each step, suggestions for each one too? So just anybody listening is going, oh yeah, like I can start doing this right now. And that can be a key takeaway.

Yes, let's do that while we go through each of them. So in step one, calming the nervous system. So, so you're thinking about your life, you're wondering, is there an obstacle to cure? Is there something that's going on? Is there something in my situation that may be getting in the way of me being really truly free and living to my highest potential? All of that. Right. Okay. So I need to accept that I cannot change the people, the situations, the, the elections, politics, climate. I can't change that. I accept that I cannot change that. But what I can't do is I can change my experience in that. So I'm going to start, I'm going to go into the body and I'm going to calm the nervous system. The first thing that you want to do is you want to elongate the exhale. This is something that's always with you. You could be at a board meeting, you could be doing a live talk, you could be picking your kids up from school, you could be getting ready to go to court, it could be anything. It could be in your living room, it could be taking a shower. Your breath is always with you. So the first thing you want to do is extend the exhale. And so you see kids do this. Have you ever noticed this yourself? When a kid gets really mad, they're like. And they like bunch their fists and they breathe out really hard.

Definitely. Yep.

The body knows, right? So you want to extend the exhale and if you can put some force behind it or even some voice behind it like I did, this activates your vagus nerve and oh my goodness, your vagus nerve is your switch to feeling calm, getting out of that fight flight, freeze. So if you can calm the nervous system just by elongating the exhale, that's amazing. But let's say some of us were like, I try sighing all the time and it doesn't work. What else you got for me? So there are other vagus nerve hacks. I teach people about a panic pack which has all sorts of goodies that you can use. You got to carry it around with you. But if you're a person on the go, it has all sorts of goodies that go into the nervous system. So when we're in fight flight Freeze and our default mode team and our brain is on autopilot, you're not going to respond to logical things because we haven't turned that part of the brain on yet that's coming, right? Yeah. So someone saying, oh, calm down, it's okay, don't worry about it, think of something else. For most of us who are really quite activated, that doesn't work. We have to stimulate the brainstem. So maybe you've heard about the three, three, three rule for anxiety. And so if you're feeling really activated, name three things that you can see, name three things that you can hear, and even three things that you can touch. And touch is going to be really powerful. Like I feel like the ripples in my water bottle. I feel the, the cold water in my mouth, I feel the smoothness of my desk. I feel the softness in my puppy's hair. Right. So you go to the, you go to touch, you go to taste, you can look at temperature. So it's all about getting into the nervous system. So those are a couple of hacks for calming the nervous system. Thoughts about that.

I love that. I think that's fantastic and I think it's very tangible and that's what I really want to create a lot of on the the podcast is the ability for people to have these crucial takeaways. That's fantastic. Love it so far.

Yeah. My favorite fidget for the record is they make these like little, they're like little kind of look like a hair tie, but it's kind of small and spiky. So some people, they're really tend towards dissociation or like leaving their body and totally zoning out is something that may be a little more stimulating like a spiky fidget or a cold pack. And there are chemical packs that you can buy online that they use like camping first aid packs that cold works really well too, or ice. So those are a couple of other calm the nervous system step one hacks.

I love that. I love that. I just wanted to pop in here and let you know we are doing a seven day free trial to the all access membership pass at pds, which means you get access to literally everything inside of the school. And this includes the four live webinars I do with our students every single week. And on top of that you get access to all of our different courses. We have over 55 different courses on relationships, communication, boundaries, Emotional mastery, guilt and shame. Learning your needs. So Many different facets that are really important to master our lives and feel really good about our lives going forward. And last but not least, there's a daily community event. We have trained facilitators and coaches who are in there doing that work, showing up to support you on your journey every single day. Please join me on the other side. Come check it out, see if it's a fit for you. I'd love to see you there. Go ahead and sign up by clicking the link in the description box below. Okay. And what's. What's our next step? What's step two?

Step two is onboarding your wise mind. So remember we talked about your default team? They're on autopilot. They're just running from the tiger. They've been just freaking out, not accepting. So now you've accepted. You've done the radical acceptance. You've calmed your body. Now we want to switch you into what the neuroscientists call your executive control network. And think of that as your executive dream team. Political. They make big decisions, they think critically, they analyze everything. Right? So the research shows that these two teams don't work at the same time. When one goes on, they do their thing, and then you gotta turn it off by calming the nervous system. And then your dream team comes on. So now your executive control network is kicking. You're able to really look at this rationally. Your amygdala in your brain, that big feeling part of the brain that's not firing as much. And we could totally talk about what that whole biological process is because, oh, girl, then we get into, like, gut microbiome and hormones and all that stuff, but stay tuned. And so right now we're onboarding our wise and analytical mind. Right? And so now your amygdala is like, okay, we're calm, we're chill. And your prefrontal cortex, this part behind your forehead, this part of the brain, it's very logical. Will help you think more rationally. It'll help you make empowered choices. So, ways to turn on your wise mind. Let's talk about some specifics.

Yes, yes, would love to. And then maybe we can share a tool or two. Like, this is the place that we can start working through the problems from if we're seeing them. So, yes, would love to hear.

So. So one of the ways to do it, so we want to turn it on first. And so once your nervous system is calm, you want to start thinking more analytically. And so one tangible way to do that is to count backwards. Another way to do that is to write with your left hand. Like, try writing your name with your left hand. Another way to do that may be to do a couple of math problems. So some people are like, what's two times two? What's four times four? And so, you know, you can keep it kind of easy because you're just warming up that part of the brain. You don't have to do, like, what's five to the power of 300? Whatever, don't do that. Nobody should have to do that. And so now you've got your. Your wise mind on, and you're like, okay, executive team, we're all here. And they're like, yes, we're all here. And you're like, okay, now it's time to problem solve. So then what you can do is you can actually write down everything that happened, that what your thoughts, your emotions, and your sensations are. And this is what we do in emdr. This is a form of trauma therapy. And it will help you to bridge the gap between what's happening in your brain and what's happening in your body using your logical brain. So you write down all of your thoughts, all of your emotions, and then all of your sensations, and then you fill it in with what are the circumstances that are surrounding that. So now you've got your. Your logical brain on board.

I love that. I think that's fantastic. And will you just share for anybody listening if they are in that profound state of anxiety and the default mode network is running the show and they're, you know, trying to come out of it and switch gears into, you know, their executive functions of their brain, what might they feel? So I could just. I could see somebody saying, how do I know that I've left one space and moved into the other? What would be some things that they would start seeing to know? Okay, I got that first. Step one. Now I've moved into step two.

Oh, my gosh, I love this. This is so fun to answer. So, okay, one thing that all you who are listening, I want you to do when you finish listening to this podcast episode, or maybe pause it and do this and then come back in, is I want you to do your stoplight exercise. And so what that is, is the green zone in a stoplight represents what it feels like in your thoughts, in your emotions, and in your sensations when you feel green and good and calmed and connected and relaxed and happy. And so if you don't feel that way right now is try to remember a time when you did feel that way and write about that. What if you've never felt calm is. Maybe you can ask somebody else that's close to you what they. What they experience, just to get some ideas. And so you might find, like, my chest feels free and open. My arms feel relaxed. My muscles feel. They're not tight. They feel kind of smooth and strong. And I feel like maybe there's like a half smile and my thoughts feel nice and calm. But I can be creative. So you're going to fill out your green light zone, and then you're going to fill out your yellow light zone. And your yellow light zone is when you're starting to notice a little bit more stress and a little bit more overwhelmed. And if you can figure out how this works in a sequential order, that's going to be even better. We could totally dig into the sequence of symptoms. But when you get into the yellow zone, like, what's the first symptom? So when you get a little bit stressed for you, what do you. What do you notice?

I. For sure. It's funny, I've actually done this exercise in a different form, which is so funny. I put like three circles in my inner circles, the. The. When I'm feeling my best and I'm most in alignment, and then outer circle when I start to see my habit shift. And the ones that I often put in are that I rush more. So I'll. That's like, the first one that really comes online for me is that I'll be like, rushing a little bit more. I will feel myself. Well, I end up agreeing to more things than. Than I really should, and I'll feel like a little bit more like time speeds up, honestly. And I know that that's because I'm moving into that particular space. So those would be some of the ones that come up for me.

Oh, my gosh, that's so good. And I love that variation that you do because it works with the imagery of the window of tolerance, which is. Yep. So cool. Oh, my gosh.

I actually like yours better. I like the green light way more. I was like, I'm gonna change that in my mind.

I love that. Please do. Please do. So for me, when I start to get. So I know that I'm going into a stress cycle when I feel like I always gesture, like between my throat and my sternum right here in the center of my chest, it was like, ooh, little bit of tension there. And if I ignore that whisper of a little bit of stress, a little bit of overwhelm like you, I may be. It may be because I'VE been saying yes to too many things and not protecting my space or my time, whatever it is, is then the whispers will turn into shouts. And that's the red zone. The red zone is crisis. And that crisis could be rage, it could be severe depression, it could be panic, it could be the worst migraine of your life. It could be so many things. But that's your body is like we're like really communicating quite loudly and so then notice the sensations in the sequence of when they occur. And so some people, like when I was telling my story at the beginning, it was like burning under my skin, like someone took coals out of a fire. I've had people describe like electricity zooming through their head, brains, apps, numbness and tingling. And so when we're looking at what it feels like as you're getting back into that calm space, that executive control network, if you've done your, your stoplights ahead of time and you know exactly what it feels like when you're aware when you're there, and if you use these coping mechanisms and you already have them laid out in your stoplight strategies, then you know what to do to get back to orange and then what to do or yellow and then what to do to get back to green and then you can listen to the feedback from your body to say, okay, this is working. We can now move on to the next phase.

Love that, love that, love that. That's so beautifully laid out.

Thank you. It's a necessity, having gone through it and worked with clients. So we've talked about acceptance, how to calm the nervous system with some practical strategies. We talked about onboarding your executive control team and now they're logical. Talked about what it's like when you're in each of the colors, how you know when you're getting back into that wise, analytical, calm space. And now we're ready for step three.

Beautiful. Let's hear it.

This is, this is so fun. And so step three is it's that body connection. So one thing that you and I were just talking about is a lot of times people are very top down focused. They're very much like, what can I do analytically to change the way that I'm feeling in my body? And then other people are just focused on the biology. They're like, how can I calm my body and my nervous system? But this next step is awareness that there is a bi directional communication between your body. And this is all about meta awareness. And so when you have meta awareness, it's like being aware of your awareness Itself, Right?

Yep.

And so let's talk kind of practically about this. So in this step, you're noticing, like, okay, I'm feeling a little bit more calm. I'm in my analytical mind. And now I want to see if my mind can regulate my body. So here are signs that you need to practice step three, which is that reintegration is. Do you ever feel like maybe you're getting that feeling of time rushedness, even though logically, you know that time is staying the same and it's. It's fine, right?

Yeah, definitely.

Yeah. You've experienced that, and I've experienced.

That's like my yellow zone for sure, is what I noticed specifically. I'm like, oh, I feel like time's speeding up. I know that that means that I'm not doing a good job of regulating myself right now.

That's a perfect example. Yes. Yeah. So you notice that you're like, okay, I'm in my yellow zone. And so that in the fact that you're aware of that, it shows that you have that executive team. They're like, hey, we're kind of. We're sort of shifting into the default team before you go, just so you know. Right? Yeah. And so you notice that. So that means that the mind and the body aren't fully integrated because they're doing different things. Yeah, Right. So the body's like, all right, it's gearing up to produce some stress. And your mind's like, hold on. So what you want to do is you want to work with body regulation techniques. And there's tons of them. And I like doing these preventatively, but they work really well in the moment, too. But what you'll notice is that all this work that you're doing with these four steps that we're learning today is that you're literally repatterning the brain and the nervous system. And I think about it, like, imagine that you're at the top of a mountain and you pour water. Water is going to flow down the path of least resistance. And it's the same with the brain. And so if you've had all of these experiences, you put on this fluffy coat and you've been patterned to go down, fight, flight, freeze. That's what's going to happen automatically. And so when you're doing these exercises, you're actually changing neuroplasticity. You're leveraging the power of your brain and body's healing ability. And so this process of reintegration is where you have that meta awareness. You notice, okay, I'm aware I'm noticing. This is what my body is saying. And now I'm going to breathe through that. I'm going to bring myself into a state of calm while doing that. So I'm going to notice that. I'm going to notice that feeling. So let's say that you get gut anxiety. And so somebody listening to this might feel like a sinking, like a stone sinking in their stomach. And their brain's like, wait, should we be scared? Should we be. Should we be anxious? Is there a tiger? Right? So if you're in step three, what you do is you notice that you pull it up and then with lots of love, you say, okay, part. Thank you for telling me what it is that's going on. Thank you for sharing your suffering. I hear you. I acknowledge you. What it is, what it is that you need me to know right now. And then what you'll probably observe is that as you practice this is that you'll get either a thought, a feeling, a sensation, or a memory. And so you acknowledge that. So oftentimes when we get activated, it's because there's something stored in our tissues and the symptoms are like, hey, we gotta clear that. So you notice that, you acknowledge it. And then you will timestamp it so you'll say, okay, I hear you. I want you to know that I have resources you didn't have. I want you to know that I can take care of you. It's whatever year you and I are recording this in. 2024. So you say, it's 2024. I've got this and I'm here for you. And so you notice what the body is saying, and then you give it the data of the present and your resources, because it's very possible you have a past part of you that's getting activated. So now you're kind of bridging. Imagine the two. Well, exactly.

Will you. For anybody. I love this work. I'm quite familiar with this. But for anybody listening, will you just give a specific example? So. So let's say somebody is feeling. We can do one together. Let's say somebody is feeling anxious, and maybe they're anxious about their boss at work, let's say, and they're anxious about, you know, what the. Their boss might say to them or, you know, what's coming up. And they find themselves, they're sitting on their couch at home and they're just feeling all that sinking feeling in their stomach and they're feeling anxiety. Could you walk us through what that might look like for that person. Just as an example for anybody listening.

Yeah. I call this the three minute hack. Okay, so you're about to go in and you're about to have a meeting with your boss, right? And you're like, you're sitting there, you feel this gut anxiety. So if you can do this in your office, awesome. If you need to go to a private space, like a bathroom, or maybe go sit in your car for three minutes, and then you set an alarm on your phone for one minute first. And then you just allow yourself to marinate and become fully aware and in full acknowledgment of the data that's coming from your body. Because I guarantee you that most of us are like, where's the kava kava? Or where's the Xanax? Or what? Just tell me to elongate my breath. Right? So what you're going to do is you're going to set an alarm for 60 seconds and you're just going to notice it and you're going to acknowledge it and you're going to hold space for it and you're going to receive it, and then you're going to ask it. You're going to set the alarm again for 60 seconds and you're going to ask yourself, when is the earliest time? I remember feeling this way because my. My bet is that it's not just about the meeting with your boss because you have different parts of you. You have a part of you that is a total badass. Right? She's going to go into that meeting with the boss. She's going to hold her own. She's going to have radical empathy. She's not going to take things personally. She's going to know that that boss is going to have their own stuff. It doesn't reflect on her. She's got this. She's in control, she's powerful, whatever. Right? So you're going to send the alarm for 60 seconds, be like, when is the earliest time? I felt that way. Right. And then very likely you're going to have a thought, emotion, a sensation, or a memory come up. Yep. And so then you're gonna set your alarm for the last 60 seconds and then you're just gonna simply talk to that part. You're gonna be like, I am strong. I am confident. I'm in control. You don't have to be in this meeting. I've got you. You go, relax, it's 20, 24. We're gonna do this. I've got you, don't worry. And you're gonna exhale and you're gonna soothe, you're gonna imagine golden light coming into your body, whatever it is that you need to soothe that part. And then you're going to have the alarm go off, you're going to walk out and you're going to be in your amazing self. What will help you? Can I throw one more thing in there?

Yep.

What will help you is if you can practice being in your badass. And so I have a part of myself and when I used to teach, I taught at the medical school and I have an image, I'm wearing like a hot pink blazer, I'm teaching the students, I'm like, yeah, I know my stuff. And so I do meditations on that and then I do an anchor. So when you meditate and you own that and you kind of marinate in that part yourself if you squeeze. So I always was taught to squeeze the knuckle on your hand, on the left hand, if you squeeze and breathe and notice that part, you're installing that into your neuro tissue so that when you do that three minute hack and you go into the bathroom and you talk to that younger part that you can activate that badass and then you can go from that centered place to that meeting.

That's beautiful. I love that. And, and for context for anybody listening, usually what people are going to see when they get the step, step two, after like fully going into that presence and awareness for a minute, they get to minute number two. They're usually going to see that their boss maybe represents all the times they felt yelled at by a parent as a child who is authoritarian or there's going to be a lot of like these pre existing experiences for people. So, so that's why I think it's so powerful. And then I really think of your step three there as being then we can give to ourselves that we didn't get, which is that ability to realize like hey, you're safe, everything's okay. And so I, I, I think that that's such a beautiful framework that you shared for actually going in and giving our, our body and mind an opportunity to express itself and then actually being able to show up for ourselves in ways that maybe we didn't know how or couldn't as perhaps young children. Because some of those, those experiences coming up are often going to be all the way from, from back in the day in our early life experience experience. So absolutely love that. Please tell us step four of this process.

Oh, I just love, makes my heart so happy to get to hear you say that because Girl, you are so trauma informed. You're amazing. So yes, I love it. So now, now we have the opportunity to intentionally retrain panic producing patterns into powerful patterns. And so this is something that you're going to do outside of an activated situation. This is like I'm going to run a marathon. So I'm going to be going and I'm going to be doing my daily run. This is like maintenance. This is helping gear you up to be panic proof. And so what we want to do is we want to put your mind, your body and your nervous system in autonomic arousal in a safe and controllable way. And Bruce Perry talks about this in his book what Happened to you? Which stands on the shoulders of Bessel van der Kolk, who wrote the Body Keeps the Score. I think these are people who largely influenced the way I see things is that when we go through trauma and adversity, especially when we feel powerless, like you were just saying, you were, you were little, you were yelled at by an authority figure. It was really scary. And so what will happen is the autonomic nervous system, it's almost like starting a, a car. And so the starter goes and it's like gearing up, but then it, you, it flat lines, right? It can't quite turn over. And so then what happens is we go into what is called somatic reenactment. And somatic refers to the body. And reenactment is the body is trying to save itself again and again and again. So it's replaying what happened to you. That big coat is on even though you're in the south, right? So what you use, you want to induce that somatic reenactment process in a way where you can control it because it's all about giving you your power back. So here are some tangible ways to do that. So a high ropes course for some people, that can be kind of stressful, right? So you get up in that high ropes course and it is objectively safe, assuming you're going to a good reputable source, right? And you are in control because you can decide like, I'm done, I can get off of this light ropes course and I can go home and eat ice cream. You are in control of that. And so producing situations where you have control and where you can go on that, that rope and click in or that rock wall, you know, that autonomic arousal fear producing state and you can successfully get across that rope or climb to the top of that wall. That is corrective, that is showing your brain that we can go into fight, flight, freeze and we could take ourselves out.

Out of it. Yes.

So those are two tangible ways to do that. Another way to do that is horror movies for some people. Which, like blew my mind when I talked to. I did an interview with somebody whose expertise was leveraging horror movies to. Horror movies always make me feel worse.

But some people, they're like, that's not my thing. They're like, but it makes sense because you're giving yourself that. That I have the sense of control and so you can come full circle, take yourself out. That it does make a lot of sense, honestly.

Yeah, yeah.

I'm like, man, I think I would.

Rather, I would rather do a high ropes course or like anything that. Even doing the sprint burst exercise where you walk on a high incline in a treadmill, you know, maybe like a 12 on the treadmill at a speed of three and your heart rate goes up and then you flat yourself back down.

Yep.

Bring yourself back down. Because it's the same thing when your body is excited or running from a tiger or panicking before meeting with your boss. The biological process is largely the same.

I love.

So that's step four. And get creative with it. Make it your own.

This has been fantastic. This has been so wonderful. I'm so excited for our listeners to hear this. I think this is amazing. I love that you gave such a practical tools, clear examples, broke everything down for everybody, gave the the scientific evidence to back everything up. This was amazing. So tell our listeners what you're up to next and where they can learn more about you.

I needed this information a decade ago and I found that in my clinical practice that I was repeating myself again and again and again. And I was like, I just need to put this in a book that anybody anywhere can access it for, however much the booksellers sell it for like 20 USD. Or maybe you could get it on at Goodwill one day. Right. So all of this that we've been talking about, I put in a book and it's called Panic Proof and It's coming out 2024 in October and I'm so excited. So if you resonate with this, I'd love it if you buy the book and you can also connect with me on Instagram. I love to be in there and supporting you and I always add, like this interview, oh my gosh, it's going to be so valuable for the world. So I'll add that in there and you could find me at D R. Nicole Kane. C A I N. Beautiful.

We will put that all in the show Notes for anybody who's interested. Thank you so much for being here today. Thank you for sharing your knowledge, your wisdom, your experience and hopefully we'll stay in touch and maybe have you back one day soon.

I would love that. It was so fun. You're so brilliant and I just really want to honor you with everyone listening and the work that you're doing and this, the hard conversations you're having, like this is the stuff of life and I really honor and see and value you.

Thank you so much. If you enjoyed this episode, please take a moment to subscribe, rate and review us on your favorite podcast platform. Share it with friends and family who are on their journey of personal development and growth and thank you for listening. Next week we'll be back with more insights to guide you on your journey and on. Until then, keep practicing our tools and strategies to change your subconscious mind and apply some of the powerful learnings from this podcast so that you experience real life transformation.