The Flourish Diet: A Simple Path to Gut Health

Hi everybody, I'm Dr. Sanda Moldovan, periodontist and nutritionist. Welcome to the Holistic Dentistry Podcast, the show that gives you the tips and tools to detoxify your mouth for a healthier body as we explore together the root cause of disease. Remember, you're not healthy until your mouth is healthy, so take care of it in the most natural way. Welcome everyone to another episode on the Holistic Dentistry Show. I'm your host, Dr. Sanda Moldovanovan, and with me today I have Anil Sim. She's a board-certified functional health coach and the founder of Nine Arms of Wellness. She specializes in helping busy women lose weight and reverse metabolic dysfunction by focusing on gut health and microbiome nourishment. Her personalized four-pillar approach has helped hundreds of women achieve long-term results without relying on extreme diets or medications. Anu is also a trained plant-based chef, Ayurvedic counselor, and the author of Flourish from Within, which is now on Amazon. That book includes 50 gut-friendly, science-backed recipes. She sees clients virtually across the US and trains other coaches in her unique methodology. Anil, welcome to the show.

Thank you, Dr. Sanda Moldovanova. Just a pleasure to be here. I always say that the mouth is on top of the gut, so excited to talk about the top layer of the gut tract.

Yes, and I'm also excited to talk to you about one of my favorite subjects, which is the microbiome. It's at the root of everything. So tell me about your story. How did you end up here?

Well, like most of us practitioners, I've had you on my podcast and I know you have a personal story as well. We all have personal stories and mine is no different. I was really going through a lot of gut issues myself and it just, just one day I was fine and suddenly this, this happened and I went the usual traditional route. I went through from doctor to doctor in search of answers, didn't get any. They usually would tell me things like, oh, you, you're fine, your labs look normal, everything is fine. So finally, very, very frustrated. I still remember the day when I was just sitting in my car after another dead-end appointment thinking, what am I going to do? You know, no one's taking my symptoms seriously. And at the time, My symptoms were like bloating, you know, just distension, not, not really understanding how I would respond to any given food, which I was digesting perfectly fine before. So that was the surprise for me. And then, um, so I just sat there and I was feeling really hopeless. And through all of that chaos, this one thought came to me and said to myself, if no one is going to name this. I'm going to do it myself. So that's the day everything changed for me from being that patient, wearing that patient hat. I became a detective, you know, and we're talking Dr. Sanda Moldovanovanovanovanova at a time when there was no internet or ChatGPT, things like that. So I had to go to UCSD and really research the heck out of my symptoms. You know, and that's where I discovered the microbiome and it was just starting. The Human Microbiome Project had started. The Sonnenbergs had written their first book and I was just completely smitten. I thought this could be it, you know, and sure enough, you know, starting to take care of my microbiome, things started shifting. I started feeling better. And then when I finally healed, I thought to myself, well, Well, we, I need to share this. Like Maya Angelou says, when you heal, you go heal someone. And that's pretty much what happened in my case. I wanted to help others, you know, because I could, I heard so many women and men saying that they feel hopeless. They have so many gut issues. And no one's taking them seriously. And that didn't feel, that didn't sit well with me.

Yeah. What are some of the first changes that you made in order to reestablish a good or a more optimal gut microbiome?

Yeah. Well, first of all, I think, you know, I had strayed so far away from a good, healthy diet. You know, I kind of, in the name of being American or chasing the American dream and working hard, I'd adopted convenience. And so the standard American diet that's pretty high in processed foods was, you know, I was probably resorting to that way more than I should have. And I was cutting out a lot of the fibers and good fats and things like that that were really serving me well before. So my gut had taken a beating because of that. And I didn't know at the time, I didn't know that was what was happening. So the very first thing I did was bring all of those foods back very judiciously, because when you have not been eating a certain way and/or you're entering a certain new phase in your life, you know, perimenopause, you know, the rules of the game change and your body changes, your gut changes. So I had to really go slow. And, but Eventually, I was able to add a lot of these fibers back, a lot of the plant sources back to help my microbiome, help to help grow more species to help me thrive. Yeah.

You often say it's not you, it's your microbes. What do you mean by that?

Yeah. Well, I see this in my practice. You know, it's like people come in on very restrictive diets. They They feel like the diet is not working. They're counting calories. And so I really help them understand that your microbes really play a huge role in your metabolic profile and your metabolic potential. So once that is clear to them and they realize that by feeding these gut microbes what they think of as fuel, you have a better metabolic potential. You start losing weight and keeping it off. You have better numbers as far as your blood sugar balance. Your inflammation goes down. There's so many changes that happen just by feeding them, giving them the fuel that they require. I think it's good for the listeners to understand that, you know, We've had the symbiotic partnership with these microbes for forever. You know, they've been our forever guests and taking care of them and we've kind of co-evolved to hand over digesting of fiber to them. And when we don't give them the fuel, it's not that they're going to starve. They'll eat anything that you give them, but from that, you end up with a pathogenic load, you know, that you have to deal with. And you probably see it well before anyone else in the mouth, you know, with just the biofilm and just a translocation of some of these bacteria from the mouth to the gut. So if you really think of it, the mouth and the gut are just two ends of the same ecosystem. And the pH could be different, but we're really, if If you have sticky plaque in your mouth, chances are there is some sticky stuff happening in your gut lining too.

Yeah, you're so right about that. You know, we always say leaky gums, leaky gut, because usually, you know, it's a lot harder to see farther down in the GI tract than it is to see in the mouth.

Yeah, definitely. And in the mouth, it's just very apparent. But now we have enough research that's telling us that these oral microbes are translocating to different parts going downstream, you know, and that I think is so important for everyone to understand because we think of the mouth as a completely separate entity. But imagine we are swallowing like trillions of microbes every day. They're not going anywhere, they're going in. And if your gut lining is intact, you have all of these gatekeepers, uh, doing their job, then it's not a big, um, problem. But if these are failing you at every, every site, then those oral, um, bacteria become a huge problem. And we see this, and I think you probably know way more about this than I do. Like, I think there was a research that pointed to gingivalis in, um, you know, Alzheimer's patients, in preterm babies. We see it in atherosclerotic plaque. So it's not just staying in the mouth, it's going, it's traveling, and it's traveling through first by swallowing. It's traveling, it may completely bypass that whole gut entry point and go through your bloodstream, through your bleeding gums. So taking care of the mouth and what you do is Oh my gosh, so important. In fact, you know, in my intake form, I have my clients, I usually ask my clients, is anything, was there anything surprising in the intake form? Did you, do you have anything to share with me? And they usually say, oh my gosh, yeah, I was really surprised that you asked so many questions about my mouth. And they say, even my dentist doesn't, doesn't ask so many questions. But I do.

Yeah, I'm glad you do. You know, such a strong connection between the gut and the mouth. And, you know, I can think of this one patient that I had. He had gum disease and he disappeared. And he comes back about 70 pounds lighter and no sign of gum disease. And I said, what did you do? And he said, oh, I changed my diet. I changed my lifestyle and, you know, I became better about oral hygiene. And he fixed his gut, essentially.

Yeah. Yeah.

So we see it the other way around too, you know. And I want to talk about fiber, right? Because you talk about fiber. And fiber is so essential for oral health, not just for gut health, because in the process of adjusting Thai ball, we actually get a clean oral health. The tongue gets scraped. Cheeks get scraped, you know, the teeth get scraped from plaque. How do you incorporate this, you know, as a plant-based chef in the everyday diet? And about— do you measure the fiber that you give people?

That's a great question. And I think you're so right to focus on fiber because we are in fiber famine. You know, we are, as a West our Western diet is so low in fiber. And fiber is, like you said, it's for your oral health, it's for your cardiovascular health, it's for your microbial profile. It affects every aspect of health. It really acts as a GLP. It's great for satiety. So I, the 3 or 4 years that I did research for the book, if I could just sum it up in one word, it would be fiber. 'Cause there's that much research done on fiber. And I think everybody should know that fiber comes from the plant kingdom. So when I say I'm a plant-based chef, I think I'm just kind of hyping it a bit. I really think of myself more as a health chef than a— when you think of chef, you think about, wow, something great for the palate and stuff like that. But I really think I am really so focused on health that the palate takes a second place. Of course, some people, my clients, Clients do say that my recipes are really delicious, but my first thing is let's get you that fiber. How much fiber are we tracking in each recipe? And for that, everyone should understand that fiber, not all fibers are prebiotic, and prebiotic fibers are fibers that are really feeding your bacteria and growing new species. So that leads me to really a good understanding of the microbiome. I think a lot of people say, what is a healthy microbiome? You know, and I don't think we really have an answer for that because it's as unique as your fingerprint. You know, everybody— yours is very different from mine. But as long as the functions that they do are carried out, it doesn't matter who's doing the function. So that's like in, in microbial terms, it's called functional redundancy, and they all kind of really are attracted by certain kinds of fibers, you know, they— so, and so as long as we are feeding them, who's in there doesn't really matter. So really a healthy microbiome, as far as we know, is a resilient microbiome. And a resilient microbiome is a microbiome that can bounce back. You know, let's go, let's say we take a trip to Mexico or, you know, we're able to eat anything and come back and not struggle with the consequences, not have something like Montezuma's Revenge or something like that, or take an antibiotic and really struggle with post-antibiotic diarrhea. All of that is kind of telling us that we have a pretty resilient microbiome. And, and the, the main star there is how are you feeding them? Are you giving them enough of these fiber sources? And to answer your question, Dr. Sanda Moldovanova, I think Really tracking your fiber is important. We are at a point today that we are tracking protein. You know, protein for the longest time was, it was a very confusing thing. So now, especially menopause, perimenopause, menopausal women are really understanding the value of protein. So my argument or what I propose is fantastic. Protein is very important, especially leucine. Starting your day with that protein is fabulous. Anchor your plate with protein, but surround with fiber. Have lots of different fibers surrounding that protein, then you're good to go. Let's not overcomplicate food, you know, and what does that mean? You know, the different kinds of fiber could be coming from, um, In the book, I propose a framework, and when you have a framework, it doesn't matter what kind of pattern your microbiome falls under, you're able to feed your microbiome. So basically, the foundational layers are your vegetables and fruits, beans, lentils, all of that make up the foundational layer, and you can just change this up every Every week, every day if you want to. And, and that's the diversity that the microbiome is looking for. And the second layer are the enhancers. And the enhancers are like little tiny levers, you know, that really help you enhance your microbial profile. And that's coming from herbs and spices. They're really high in polyphenols, good fats. That act like a glide so your digestion is good. You know, seeds, nuts, all of those are the enhancers. And finally, we have the top of the pyramid are functional foods. Functional foods are polyphenols. And when I say polyphenols, these are foods like green tea, you know, turmeric, spices, and like Clove, for example, is really rich in— I think of clove as soon as, you know, because clove oil is such a good fit for the mouth. And making a nice clove tea is so high in antioxidants. So just making sure these three things are a part of your daily eating, and they don't have to be huge amounts. That's not what these microbes are asking for. It's just saying, I just want diversity. Just give me a little bit of everything. So even if it doesn't mean in a day, but within the week, if we are able to add about 30 different plant sources, and those sources can come from the foundational layers, it could come from the enhancers, it could, it could come from the functional foods. And pretty soon it becomes super easy to add 30 plant sources. And I say 30. Plant sources is because there's a lot of research around this. We've seen that people who eat more than 30 plant sources have lower inflammatory markers. Their CRP is lower, that is the C-reactive protein is lower compared to people who eat less than 10 plant sources per day.

Now, you know, the average probably person doesn't get 30 different plant sources. So how do you, how do you help someone that maybe just eats lettuce or potato? They think potato is a great vegetable and they're eating their vegetables every day. If they have potatoes, how do you help them kind of incorporate slowly and get to that, you know, 30 a day?

Yeah. And I think, you know, we all make goals, but goals without a system You're going to fall flat. It just doesn't work. We could all have, I mean, I could make a resolution every day saying I'm going to eat more plants. But if you don't have a system to help us stick to it, it's going to be really hard because the same part of the brain that's also deciding, oh my gosh, I have a meeting that I need to go to. I need to finish this project. I have a patient waiting for me is also dealing with what do I have for lunch? So it becomes very, very challenging for the average person to carry this out every day and for it to become a habit. So I say, let's format things. So I usually, my clients get a formatted approach to everything. So when I say formatted, someone comes to me and says, Kauschana, I do eat veggies. I eat carrots, potatoes, corn. And I need to get them started with some greens, I can't tell them, oh, I think you really need to eat some kale today, and tomorrow you need to add some Swiss chard. They have to add some mustard. They're going to look at me like I'm totally nuts, you know? So I give them a format, and the format clearly tells them how to add everything. And today, more than any other time, it is so easy to do this. You can get chopped everything, chopped cabbage, chopped all in little neat packages that you can bring home and completely make your smoothie, make your salad without a lot of effort. I don't ever like to see my clients spending hours and hours in the kitchen. I am not that kind of a cook, and I don't expect anyone to do that either. Chop chop, let's do it, let's go on, you know. That's fine. I mean, I would rather my clients spend their time chewing their food, really increasing their secretory IgA, producing more saliva. That would be where I would like to see them spend time, not in the kitchen.

I would love to talk about that actually, increasing the saliva production. You know, there's so many people today with dry mouth. So, um, chewing more will definitely stimulate saliva production. So are there some food recommendations that you might have to increase saliva production?

Yeah, well, I mean, um, anything with prebiotic fibers really do help with that saliva production. Cutting down on processed foods really help. Dry mouth, you know, eating your veggies, eating your water, sorry, that really helps a lot. I mean, people think of hydration as just water, but I'm saying water can come in different sources. And then that really helps. And really being mindful about the chewing. I know back in the '30s, there was this gentleman, I think his name was Harold Fletcher, and he said, you need to chew 32 times or something like that, you know. I remember my grandfather, he was a physicist and he took that very seriously. Not even sure how he heard about this guy, because we're not talking about the time when there was an internet or something like that. But he would always tell me, you need to chew mindfully. And my— our dinner time was almost an hour and a half. And it was excruciating at that time being a young girl and wanting to go out and play. But my grandfather insisted we chew our food. And it just makes such a big difference because think about it, if you think of the mouth as the top of your gut, imagine how much work you're kind of decreasing by chewing and being that little Vitamix for the rest of your, the digestive tract. So a lot of the work is done. You're producing salivary amylase to digest your carbohydrates. You're producing secretory acid. IGA, which is the first line of defense in your mouth. And this is something I see, Dr. Sanda Moldovan, a lot more and more and more people are not able to tolerate foods. And one of the reasons is what's happening in the mouth. Oral tolerance decreases. They're not able to handle it. And that's one of the reasons I said we start with smoothies. Smoothie is like, you know, your own personal chewer and it just blends things. You hold on to the fiber. You're not throwing away the fiber. So a lot of my clients would come to say, but I juice. I said, well, when you're juicing, what happens to the fiber? You throw that away. We don't want that. We want to take the fiber in. So let's use smoothies instead of juice. And eventually these, the same people are able to handle more, um, foods, that tolerance list expands and they're able to handle more foods. But initially, we will need to go slow and use things like smoothies or really a soup that is completely blended so they're able to handle more diversity.

Yeah, I'm glad you mentioned the smoothies and the juice because I am not a fan of juices in general unless they're purely green. But the problem is a lot of people think, you know, carrot and orange juice together is a healthy drink. And that's packed with sugar. And, you know, it's a lot of sugar than anybody can handle. However, when you have a carrot with a fiber or an orange with the fiber, like as a whole, like it's supposed to be, it's a completely different assimilation of sugar. I'm curious what you do, speaking of sugar, with people that have a sugar addiction. How do you help them with that?

It is so interesting. I think cravings are so interesting and the microbes have a lot to do with it. Because when you have the wrong kind of microbial, if you don't have, if you have dysbiosis in the gut, you have imbalance in the gut, you have pathogenic bacteria that are craving that sugar. And the thing is, the turnaround is so quick. This is what I love about feeding the microbes. The microbial profile within 24 hours changes. And I'll tell you what happened today. I had a call with a client and she has a very stressful job. She's in hospital as a nurse. And one of the things, first thing she said is, gosh, I know I have so many cravings. I have cravings all the time. People around me are eating all this. So I didn't really say much. I said, let's just start. And it's, I think, her day 4 or day 5. And today she said, oh my gosh, what's happening? I am not craving anything. So if we really think about it, it's because she's feeling satiated. From an evolutionary standpoint, our bodies are looking for a few things. We're looking for protein. So she's getting adequate amount of protein. From a microbial perspective, she's getting plenty of fiber. So she's very satiated. Her cravings are down. And within a few days, she's able to handle it. And for her, that was the most surprising thing. So I think eating right for your body and eating healthy will take care of most cravings. Sometimes it's habit. Like there are certain cultures, especially here in America, we feel like we need to eat dessert every day after a meal. That's a habit. So we need to kind of rethink that habit a little bit. I tell my clients, hey, have you heard like in Sweden they have a Saturday sweet day? You know, is there one day that we can do sweets? So, so we have to work at it and really kind of change habits, I think, you know, and we all fall prey to it. And the thing with flour and sugar, they're very addicting. They're very addictive. And, um, especially for people who are on a weight loss journey or on— have type 2 diabetes, I would say finding alternatives, swapping things is the best approach, um, initially. Because if you are just thinking that you can have sugar and flour in your house and you're going to say no to it, very few of us can. It has that dopamine, you know, hold over us. But if you didn't have it at home, your home environment was safe, how many of us are going to get in a car and go out at 11:30 when we're feeling really blah after watching a Netflix movie and we want ice cream? That may happen less.

Yeah, so clean up your pantries and your refrigerators. I'm sorry. Sweet things. Now, what are, what are some early signs, oral signs that might hint at a deeper gut or metabolic imbalance?

I always ask about bleeding gums. For me, that's a sign of inflammation. And would you agree?

I agree with you 100%. Bleeding gums, definitely it's a sign that there's there is an inflammation that is deeper in the gut. But a lot of people don't think of it that way. And I know we have quite a few dentists and hygienists that are listening to this podcast. And they don't think about it that way because we're not taught in school that that's related.

Ah.

So then if you see that they have bleeding gums, what kind of follow-up questions would you ask?

So then I'm thinking biofilm. I'm thinking about sticky plaque. I'm thinking, what is happening? What is— where are the bacteria? Is it ending up downstream? There are many questions that come up for me, you know, and then I connect that to their overall health. What else is going wrong? Are they— how is your inflammatory load? How— and a lot of them are struggling with weight gain. They have— Maybe they're pre-diabetic. So, and I look at everything, cholesterol, just everything. But the mouth, I think, is huge. And if, and if people are listening and thinking, oh, just the right toothpaste or using a toothbrush like Sonicare will take care of things, I beg to differ. I think it does help, you know, to have a good electric toothbrush and really kind of really get every part of your mouth clean. Absolutely. I 100% agree. Especially when you think of how much you're swallowing, how much can go through bleeding gums into your, through your bloodstream into different parts of your body. Yes, you want to be 100% careful about oral hygiene. Um, but I think, uh, the food that you take in is so important and really cutting down on hyperpalatable foods, even for, do it as an, as an experimental goal for a few weeks and see how your mouth changes in response to it. And I think just that would really help. And of course, things like gargling and salt water and all of that can totally help. But without a good solid diet as a foundation, I think everything else tends to be a band-aid.

Yeah. Now let's, let's talk about your book some more. I love your title, Flourish from Within, because we really want the microbiome to flourish. What is the Flourish diet? And how does it support long-term health?

Yeah. So for me, one of the first questions I ask my clients is, what does it mean to flourish? It's a charming word, but I think as humans, we've always wondered about it, right? And a lot of them will tell me, oh, just jumping out of bed every morning, having the energy to play with my grandchildren. Everybody's answer is so different and it's so unique to them, you know. But the one thing I do notice, Dr. Sanda Moldovanova Moldovanova, is it is almost next to impossible to flourish when you're not flourishing from within. If your body is not supporting you, if your gut-brain axis is not supporting you, doesn't matter how many, um, passion, how passionate you are about the world. Your body doesn't support you. You're not able to carry things out. This is something I see client after client after client. And in my own case, you know, when I was going through all of those problems, heck, who cares about the rest of the world? I'm struggling here. I just want to get better, right? So that's why I connect everything to flourishing from within. And I see that the microbiome has such such a big role to play in every aspect of lifelong health. And that's the reason for the title. And, um, the, the, the framework that I propose in the book is, um, really based on— I feel like every cuisine, every culture has something healthy and beautiful to offer. So I just wanted to be inviting to every culture and cuisine. So my book does not have just recipes from a certain cultural cuisine. I just try to, it's a big mix of all my travels and all the beautiful healthy recipes that I've discovered along the way. And like, let's say you go to Italy, you know, they have such beautiful soups with cannelloni beans and things like that. So I've incorporated that. Mexicans have their own sopa de frijoles. Indians have their dal. And everything Every single culture has something beautiful to offer. And there's something to be said, even though we are a melting pot, and we are more than anywhere else in the world, we embrace all different cultures and their foods. We have something called comfort food. So I am always cognizant of that. And this is something I ask my clients, what is it? On a crappy day, what do you crave? What kind of food? And that immediately tells me. Which cuisine is their comfort food. And based on off of that, we just really create this beautiful framework of fibers and, you know, good fats, all of that. So the framework itself is very simple. Start with foundational layers, add the enhancers, and top it up with the functional foods. But you can't do all of it at the same time. There's a system to it. You start with foundation, stay there for a little while, see how your gut is doing. Then slowly bring in the other levers. I don't really personally talk about protein. I think it's a very personal choice. You know, people can choose animal or plant, plant protein. The only time I will say let's cut down on animal protein is if your gut test tells me that. Let's say they are producing a lot of, um, um, ammonia and they're digesting way too much protein in the colon because the colon is not where, you know, protein is digested. It's digested in the upper parts of your digestive tract. Then I might say to the client, hey, this is what's happening. What do you think? How can we address this? But other than that, I leave the protein choice to my wonderful client because clients know best. You know, I mean, they know. What works for them. All I care about is how you're feeding your microbiome, and I talk about that in the book.

What's your favorite comfort food?

Well, definitely Indian. I'm Indian, so I love dal. On a, on a day next to that, I imagine it's Italian. I spend a lot of time in Italy, love Italian cuisine, and Mexican is a close third. Oh, and I do love Israeli food, you know, the Middle Eastern. Yeah, because I love the idea of a spread. That's how I like to eat, you know, lots of little sauces and things. And you just add things in your, like, an Israeli salad, hummus, you know, Middle Eastern sauces.

Oh, yes. I'm getting hungry just listening to you. I love all of that, you know.

Yeah.

Variety.

Do you have a favorite food?

You know, when you mentioned comfort food, I thought of my mom's chicken noodle soup because whenever we were sick, that's what she would make. And even today, you know, we actually, you know, make it in a pressure cooker from scratch and all the vegetables, you know, that are after the fact. It's just delicious.

I know. It never goes away. That's why it doesn't make sense for us to, like, I had a client who was, she was actually Indian and she said, I don't know, I go to everybody and they tell me that I need to eat Mediterranean diets. I don't know what that is because end of the day, I want my dal and my roti and my rice. So you can't really push people to eat a different way. I think you can only push a framework that supports your digestion.

Yeah, I agree. And I believe we're born with a set of microbes, you know, that we inherited from our parents. So they're already used to a certain type food.

Yeah.

And maybe if we're going to change it so drastically, it might not be all that great for us. Now, what are some of the surprising things you've seen improve in your clients just by improving their diet and their gut health?

I think the first thing is weight loss. I see this. I mean, that's what I focus on. And amazing.

You're going to get it anyway.

Yeah. I mean, I feel like Without being on restrictive diets, or, you know, people lose weight, you know, because their brain is happy, their gut is happy. The gut-brain axis is so important. 90% of your serotonin is made in the gut, you know, 70% of your immune system is in the gut. So they start feeling healthier. They tell me they're not as sick as they used to be, you know, they don't fall sick. That's something. And energy, that's the biggest win. That, I don't know, I mean, it shouldn't be surprising to me, but every time a client says, oh my gosh, I have so much energy, it just blows me away, you know, because it reminds me of how important food is because food can be poison or food can be medicine. So we are choosing every day. About which, um, about which one really works for us. So that, I think, is a responsibility that we can't just outsource to anyone else. We just have to take that responsibility.

So true. Yeah. Do you work with clients locally or also remotely?

Uh, it— well, I do have local clients, of course, but, uh, I work virtually. And that Oh, my, my, um, everything changed after COVID, you know, that's when I, yeah, because I had, I did have a brick and mortar and I thought, what is the point? Even my local clients say, uh, let's do this virtually because I could do everything. All the 9 arms can be carried out beautifully, you know, in a virtual setting. So there's no reason for a brick and mortar.

Yeah, absolutely. I wish I could practice virtually some days. The only thing I can do is a virtual consultation, which we can do. Yeah. So Anu, it's been such a pleasure chatting with you. I wonder if it— are there any last words or advice that you want to leave our audience with?

Yeah. Well, I think today we've kind of really complicated food. We've started chasing single nutrients. Oh, seed oil or tallow or protein or good fats or bad fats. I don't think food needs to be this complicated. You know, most of it is just basic rules. What are you— are you getting adequate protein? Are you getting enough fiber for your microbial partners? Do you have enough good fats for your brain to function? That's enough. And I mean, if you start there as a framework, I think that's half the battle. And I think everybody should have hope of getting better, their gut healing, and feeling the best version of themselves.

Yeah, I agree with you, Anil. I think we're complicating things and all these you know, diets that are hip one day because they're taking away, like, let's say, sources of fiber that are so essential or focusing on just one food category, you know, like the carnivore diet. I just don't understand that.

So I'm very curiously waiting for data on that. So far it hasn't been great, but yeah, yeah, yeah, it might.

This— maybe we're just looking at some numbers. I hear from some integrative physicians, oh, it's actually certain numbers are coming out good, but what is it doing to the microbiome? Yeah.

And in the long term, and it's also about sustainability, right? You know, when you think about the macros, I mean, there are some comfort foods that just having protein is not going to cut it. Anyone who's been on a standard American diet and decide to try a carnivore diet, Of course it's going to be better because they're cutting out all the crappy foods, you know, and they're getting, they're getting, they are feeling satiated from the protein. But long-term, is this going to work? It's a very interesting idea. Yeah, well, we just have to see. Yeah.

We have to see. Yeah. So everyone, I encourage you to pick up Anu's book and find out some amazing recipes that are gut-friendly. Friendly and they're going to build your microbiome. It's available on Amazon. We're going to put the link below. Thank you everyone for listening and Anu, thank you very much for being on our show.

Thank you, Dr. Sanda Moldovanova. It's perfect. Thank you so much.

Thank you so much for joining me this week. Please make sure you check out the show notes for any links mentioned in the show. If If you like today's show, please invite your friends to listen as well. That would mean a lot to me. Do you have a question you'd like me to answer? Message me on Instagram @DrSandaMoldovan. This is Dr. Sanda Moldovan, and remember, your mouth is the gateway to your health, so take care of it in the most natural and best way possible.