Are You On Relationship Autopilot?

Hey, it's Dr. Tracy. And today we're going to be talking all about autopilot, that mode we slip into without even realizing it. You know, the one where we move through our days on repeat. We're doing, we're reacting, we're managing, but not really choosing how we show up. And to help us unpack this, Greg's here with me on this podcast episode because this is something that we've actually both been tackling in our own relationship. And after seeing so many, so many couples struggle with this pattern, I want you to walk away from today's conversation being able to name it, name when it happens, and then to also start shifting it so that you can show up feeling more connected in your relationship.

Thanks for having me. Am I a subject matter expert? Is that why I'm here?

You are my subject matter expert today, and I love that you are so willing to do this with me because these are these real conversations that couples are having that you and I have often in our own relationship. And it's also this piece, though, that I see it reflected back to me in couples therapy and also in online communities, and it's a real struggle. I also want to connect this because we're still on the heels of my book launch. I also want to connect this back to how we navigate our family members, because in step two of my vault method in the book, I do highlight how people get stuck on autopilot. Our nervous systems go offline, and if we're not present and connected with ourselves moment to moment, we. We cannot address these challenges that are happening.

Oh, that's interesting. It's like this foundational work that has to be done before you can even navigate this stuff.

Absolutely. And that's what we're going to talk about today. So here are three examples of what autopilot might look like in a relationship. So I want to, like, go big level first, and then I have some questions for you.

So just for the audience, this is relationship dynamic specific.

Yes.

Because I would imagine a lot of, like, individuals struggle with this just in and of themselves. Maybe they're not in a relationship. Maybe this is work related, whatever.

Absolutely. I think of one client that we worked on stress and overwhelm, and he would arrive home after working all day long and have this eruption with his child and didn't want to have that experience. And so we talked about, like, what are you doing all day long? And I remember this so vividly, is that he would go from meeting to meeting to meeting, get in the car, be on the Phone call, still having a meeting and then come home having not checked in with himself at all and then be overwhelmed. So it's not just about romantic relationships, but it's also in the day to day life. Okay, here are some ways it could show up. So the first way is what I call that morning routine. Autopilot. So you're both getting ready, you're going through the motions. One makes us the lunch, the other's packing the bags and the exchanges as usual. Did you sleep okay? What's your day like? But no one's really listening.

Very transactional.

It's transactional. You're not functioning or sorry, you are functioning, but you're not connecting and attuning to each other.

Maybe logistical less transactional. Is that better way to describe it?

Absolutely. And we know that couples get really stuck in the transactions of everyday life. And when we are stuck in that, it does lead us to feel more disconnected, further apart and also like the thing we love to talk about in this community is they feel like roommates.

Yeah, I was just gonna say you beat me to it. Shameless. Plug for the next roommates challenge that starts December 3rd. Probably one of the. Just thinking about people sharing in the community. Probably one of the big pain points. It's not super bad. It's this low level transactional logistical malaise.

Yeah. And this is across all couples of whether you are a new parent, whether you've been dating for some time, whether you are in a transition period between work or kids moving into more autonomy. Their teen years. And couples just. I just love hearing how impactful the more the roommates challenges. So we've got the link in the.

Show notes there real quick on that though. I think there's also a cohort that's like maybe in their like mid-50s and their kids are like in their 20s and gone on that you're starting to hear from in the community too. Which is kind of interesting too. So they're experiencing it too, even though like life's got air quotes easier.

That's different.

Yeah, it's just different.

And I think of even the people who are in retirement and how their lives have changed and the kids have left home and they're waking up saying, oh, we actually feel so disconnected. Okay. The second way is the conflict autopilot. So this is like having the same argument over and over again. It's the chores, it's the plans, it's parenting. And before you even realize it, you're back in your predictable roles. And so one person says you never listen and the other one just shuts down and is like. They throw their hands up and they say, okay, fine, like, just do whatever. Do it your way. That's the same loop over and over again that shows up and that autopilot. And we'll talk more about what that is specifically is.

Okay, good.

I was just gonna say this, like, habitual response that shows up. I'll define autopilot in a moment. Hang on. Okay, so now the third way is the disconnection autopilot. So that's like, think of yourself at the end of the day. And one partner says, do you want to watch something together? But then the other one is scrolling or zoning out. They've already flopped into bed or flopped in the couch. And it's like, no, not because they don't care. Like, they're. They're flopping or they're zoning out or scrolling. It's not because they don't care, but it's because that routine has replaced intentional connection. So all of these moments are this experience I have with. With you and I, but also with couples in my office who talk about. It's like I'm trying to talk to you and I'm trying to reach for you and connect with you, but you're not even there. Or it's. It's the same conversation in the fight. And so this autopilot shows up, which is. What is autopilot? Let's define it. It's this experience where our brain has been there before and you go into habit mode, and it can look in lots of different ways. So I think of one of the examples I actually shared in my first book was around riding a bike. And when you imagine yourself going to get on a bike, you already know what leg you put over the bike first.

Instinctively. Yeah.

Yes. So I put my. My right leg. No, actually, I do my left leg first. But I remember in Covid days riding the spin bike and challenging myself to actually go put my right leg over first. And how awkward it was because I had to really think about what does it mean to move my body in this way? And. But that's the definition of autopilot. You drive from A to B without thinking, okay, now I'm pressing on the gas. It's this implicit process in our brain because our brain forms ways of making it easier to move throughout your day.

Coping.

Coping, yes. So you don't want to expend all that energy. So it's habits. Right. You sit down the couch, you immediately pick out your phone.

Oh, God, that's The worst.

That was new.

Guilty.

That was new and novel. Right. Or you enter the room and you pull your phone in your pocket. That was new and novel before when we didn't have phones in our day to day life. But now it's such a habit that people don't even realize they're doing it.

Oh, it's crazy.

And it's this disconnection from the present moment. I also mentioned attunement. Let's make sure I don't forget to define it. But I. I'm gonna put you now in the hot seat.

Okay.

And I wanna hear from you. Yeah, go ahead.

So attunement. Cause that sounds like therapy speak. Can you, can you.

I'll define it now.

Do it now.

Okay. For us, attunement is moment to moment. The ability to tune into, Pay attention to my own thoughts and feelings.

Yeah.

My own bodily sensations in reaction to your thoughts and feelings and bodily experiences. And so if I notice that your face drops, I notice it and I. I'm tuning into. Right. That's, that's the idea of it.

So you're attuning to others or yourself or both?

Both. Because then I also have to be aware of myself that if I immediately go to, oh, no, he's mad at me, then I'm going to show up in a different way versus if I can slow myself and say, well, you know, this isn't about me. It could be, but I don't know. So let me check in with you first and see. That would be that process.

Okay, cool.

That's how I define attunement in a. In a very layperson way. Not using a therapy textbook, but it is this, like.

Yeah, the concept of it.

And also too, what I think is so key about attunement is that it changes moment to moment. You change, the other person changes. But if you're on autopilot, you cannot connect with the other person. So can I maybe ask you. Cause I know we've been talking about this, we've been working through this. How do you understand what autopilot is?

Well, I think it's just this visceral, kind of innate thing that you just kind of do on repeat. I think it's. I've thought a lot about this because we have been talking about it ironically, even before we decided to talk about this was like living in kind of reactivity versus like proactivity. I think for me it's not being able to like slow down and pause and like notice what's happening. So you just do I think for a lot I'll generalize here and probably talk for some, if not many men is like probably weren't taught how to like tune into or slow down or be attuned, to borrow your phrase, of what's happening for us. So then our brain just copes. We have not. We have not. Not the fault really of anyone. Perhaps it's my age and kind of our generation, but so we don't slow down and again be attuned and then we just do and cope and survive versus like allowing kind of that left side of the brain to take over and plan and do things that move us forward. We just kind of do things that move us through.

I love that you just said that. Instead of moving forward, we just move through.

Yeah.

How does that show up in your day to day? If we were to really like contextualize.

This, I mean, it could be as something as benign of like just like throwing another podcast on as I'm doing whatever chore. You're just like just kind of like just doing the thing, getting up, making lunches, not stopping to check in with my partner or frankly even with myself. Right. Like, what do I hope today looks like? That kind of thing.

That's a really important piece though, in the whole picture of intimacy, desire, pleasure, connection. That in order to feel pleasure, which is so important. Yeah, you need connection, but not in the way of giving it to someone else. It's actually connection with ourselves first.

But I think I'm not really able to do that well because I don't tune into like what's happening. So you just then go on autopilot.

And I think this is where so many. And again, we're talking heterosexual relationships, but it can apply to all relationships. Yeah, but specifically it's the. I'm the connector. I'm looking to feel close to you. And then so I might be in the kitchen and then you're on that autopilot mode. It's interesting. I wonder if listeners can think of like, where do you have your common struggles? Like, do they happen in the car? Are you, are you commuting with your partner? Are they the kitchen moments? Are they the bedroom moments, the living room moments? And I think for a lot of people they are the kitchen moments. Because it's this connection and how. Not necessarily actually, because it could be in the living room. I'm just trying to give all the stories I hear. But like, you think of like the kids coming in, we're unpacking lunches, or you're packing lunches in the morning. And it is very much this, like. And I know this is one of your strengths is you do move us through the day.

Right.

If we let me guide, I can sometimes.

Disaster.

Just kidding. In some ways, I mean, you know, I go downstairs to grab something to put in my bag, and then I notice that a towel hasn't been put away so that I'm starting the load of laundry.

Right.

And then I go to. To hang up that piece of clothing, and then I'm down memory lane because I was looking at the kids memory boxes or something.

Right.

So. So, like, we all have our strengths, but I think really, when it comes to our romantic relationships, we want to know, do I matter to you? Am I important? Do you see me? Am I enough for you? And if we're not slowing down and being present with what is right now. Yeah, it's really hard.

Yeah. So I'll put it back on you. So how do the people who come to see you do that? Because I think it is kind of this, maybe this, like, suppression of their emotions or whatever that ends up.

So I'm gonna. Like how to get out of autopilot mode.

Yeah.

Yes. We're going to.

Okay.

Put a bow on it at the end of parking lot session today, because I do want to get there, but I think I really just want for people to understand what this experience is. So I'm going to come back to you, Greg, and say, what are the ways that you notice yourself going on autopilot?

Well, I think I just alluded to conflict. It's a bit of routine. It's probably conflict avoidance. It's just task mastering, task mastering, doing all the things, getting the lunches, you know, blah, blah, blah.

Do you think it's easier to be on autopilot mode? Because you said to avoid conflict and anytime we have to have hard conversations, I don't want to have a hard conversation. So I'm just gonna push this away and put it in a box.

Well, it's not consciously easier, but I think that's the whole point. Subconsciously, it is easier. Yeah. You're not having to stop and feel the things. So you just move through. You just do. Right. Versus, like, having to stop, think about it, process it. I think I'm not an expert, but that's kind of my understanding or my feeling even.

And this is. And you and I have done this work to talk about this stuff, and it's what I see with couples, too. This is where we get stuck. Because the moment you go on autopilot mode, is the moment you break connection. And in our relationship, we just want to be connected with our partners. And so for myself, when I see you go on autopilot mode, I almost feel like I've been left out in the cold.

Interesting analogy. What does it look like for you when I'm on autopilot? Because, like, how do you recognize it?

Sometimes it looks like you're mad at me, which could be filtered through my own lens, for sure.

Because of my facial expressions, because of, like, something I've said. I'm just trying to flush it out for people listening.

Yeah, it's. It can be all of it and none of it at the same time. It's sometimes, and this is what I think romantic partners miss about each other is that our brains are so hardwired to connect with your attachment figure. You are my attachment figure. My mirror neurons, we have mirror neurons that are, like, going back and forth between each other. We don't think about these things. But I notice when something's going on for you. And so then I'm going to like, poke you in a way and be like, hey, you okay? And then because you've been on autopilot for so long, you're like, yeah, I'm good.

Fine.

I'm fine.

Do you think it's also a function of, like, we have a mismatch level of, to borrow your phrase, attunement, partly because of what you do, but you have, like, a higher sensitivity to it than. Than maybe I do. Or, like, think of, like, maybe a couple you've worked with.

Like, well, sure. We're all different people.

Yeah, I guess so. That's fair.

And it's not all men that go into autopilot, because I. I think of some of the men who do have this higher attunement and their. And their. Their female partner is the one who shuts down and withdraws and goes on autopilot as a way to cope. Right. So we do. And I. And I really want to contextualize that. That's also one of the reasons why I love when you have these conversations with me, because we can kind of bring this both side here, and that's important. So I do see it on both sides. I do tend to.

Yeah.

Going into the automatic mode. And I do think that that is part of your socialization, which is to always be in that doer mode and not to slow down and to ask yourself, well, how am I actually feeling in this moment? What do I actually want right now? And men, for a long time have been Raised that way is to do and to go and complete tasks and to be the taskmaster.

Yeah. There's like a survival element to it. Mm.

You were sharing something with me last night about the brain. What did you learn when you were researching autopilot? Again, neuroscience perspective.

Yeah. Again, I'm not an expert by any means. It was just kind of this idea of that, like, I don't know the specific terms, but like when you can't kind of stop and feel or access the emotions, it like creates this barrier between the two sides of the brain, which then there's not like the synchronicity. So when you're able to like plan and like take initiation. Right. Instead you're. Because you're not able to like tune into those emotions, it doesn't like allow the left side to work almost. Again, I'm probably screwing this up, but. And then you fall into autopilot. That was kind of my understanding.

So it's a disconnection.

Yeah. There's a specific term that's been researched. I think they use like prisoners of war in the 60s coming back from Vietnam to understand like the response to it. But it was. It. It kind of. And then I think they researched like how kids were raised too, and like coercively controlled upbringings, which could have varying degrees, not necessarily traumatic, but just like think of like kids who grew up in the 70s or 80s. Right.

So we would call that small T. Trauma. Possibly.

Possibly.

Yeah.

So that's a very general.

Right.

Theory of it. I don't know, like what the science. The up to date science.

Well, in the case. I think that there's an important piece here though is especially when it comes to going on autopilot in conflict, in moments of conflict, in moments of time where you're required to express your feelings and needs. And so then if you learn growing up in micro moments. Because sometimes we don't even, you know, here's the thing. Clients come in and will say to me, I had a good upbringing. And I believe that. Yeah, I do believe that. I also know from my work is that those are also the people who over time then start to remember or recall or give voice stories of, you know, my mother never came to my room when I was crying.

Yeah.

Or if I was crying at the table. I thinking of this one client, you know, it was around sports and not being included and you know, his dad saying things like, get over it. You should have done better.

Yeah.

And it's this like split micro moment. And the way I understand that is that A parent, the caregiver is not reflecting back the emotional process. And so then your brain doesn't know what to do with that emotion. And so you decide, not consciously, but you decide to bury that and not to do it. And that's where the habit almost comes in. If I wanted to use, like, the habit.

Yeah. I think they kind of. What I'd read was kind of. They took that and it became. It was adaptive, but became maladaptive as they came into their romantic relationship specifically, or into their, like, more autonomous years.

Right.

Yeah.

I want to highlight that right here. Is that this strategy of autopilot, we don't want to go to our partners and say, you're doing this thing. It's harming us. You have to change. No, we recognize that strategies were once adaptive. And if you are someone that shuts down recognizing. I learned this coping mechanism, A, because that's what our brains do, and B, because it made a lot of sense to do that. I think when we show up to these kinds of conversations and with compassion, it does allow us to then have more space to say, okay, this doesn't need to happen today, and how can I work through that? The. The like. Yes. And piece right there is also recognizing that that cycle that you and your partner get stuck in is really that space where you want to step out of. Because, I mean, you know, from listening to all of my videos and emotionally focused couples therapy that are all inside of be Connected in our membership space, is that you get into these patterns. And part of getting out of that cycle is recognizing that it's not you versus me, it's we versus the problem versus the cycle and the pattern. And so then in those times, it is important for the person who does go on autopilot to then practice saying, hang on, I would like to show up here. Like, I want you to hear me in this moment, or I want you to kind of believe that I'm doing my best or whatever that looks like. Okay, question for you.

More. Wow.

More questions. Can you think of a moment recently where you slipped into autopilot, and I'm wondering then if you could even break it apart.

Did you have one in mind?

No.

When you were into autopilot mode, do you remember what happened right before it?

No, I don't know that moment yet, but I can promise you I don't.

Do you know how you got out of it?

No, not really. I think that's the whole point. Hence the autopilot honesty.

So when it comes to actually understanding this, there are exercises we can do to get more present every single day.

Yeah.

But we do actually want to use moments when we go into autopilot and when we shift out of it to say, oh, hey, where was I just now?

Well, okay, so, like, maybe just, like, is autopilot like, getting distracted easily, too? Maybe because they, like, could be doing some work, and then inevitably, some kind of interruption on one of your devices pops up, and then before you know.

It, you're 20 minutes on your device.

20 minutes.

That's autopilot.

Yeah. But you're not recognizing kind of the opportunity cost of what you could have been doing. Or, like, you're not moving forward. You're just kind of, again, you're going through the day.

What was the feeling right before you picked up your device?

I don't know. That's. That's the. That's the weird thing. I mean, if I can tune into that, maybe I can stop it. I think that's the whole point. Maybe, like, boredom, maybe, or like. Like stuck. Like, maybe with the task I was doing. I'm trying. I'm trying to remember. But.

But that's interesting, though, because boredom is actually a really uncomfortable feeling. And so if someone feels bored or stuck, those are both uncomfortable, and we don't want to feel discomfort. So then we go and do something that actually alleviates that discomfort.

Yeah. We've got this thousand dollars security blanket in our pocket. Supercomputer.

Right. I.

So it's too easy.

I can. Well, and that's also why a book like Atomic Habits or who are some of the other people who talk about, like, putting their phones in vaults. Speaking of the vault method, putting it in the vault and having a lock timer on it where you can't access it. You put it in your filing cabinet, and then you put the key away. Like, there are all of those.

It's like the kids with those pouches at some of the schools.

So I know for myself when I, like, if I were to side rail into, like, the device thing, if I'm working on writing, I pick up my device when I feel stuck, or I'm having a bodily experience of, like, Tracy, who are you to write books? Like, you're such an imposter. Like, imposter voice is loud, or I have to get it perfect or I'm not getting it out. Right. Those are the moments when I go to get my phone because I'm uncomfortable, and that allows me to numb out.

Yeah.

Rather than appropriately dealing with that feeling right there, which is riding the wave of discomfort.

Yeah. Feeling the emotion, I guess.

Yeah.

This is such a tangent, and. But I wonder if, like, how these, like, AI tools have, like, maybe made that worse.

Oh, probably. I'm gonna. I'm gonna sidestep that tangent. But come. I want to come back to you, though, for listeners that if you can label when you were last in autopilot and then do a little bit of retrospective curiosity processing, which is, you know, what was I working on? What was the moment? Was it. Was it actually something I was working on? Was it something I had to do? Was it a conversation I had to have? Or were the kids making all of this noise around me? Was it the taskmastering?

Can I challenge you on that, though? I think for people who are. Who tend to go on autopilot, like myself, they might have a hard time remembering, hence the autopilot.

Okay, so this is then where we want to start practicing becoming conscious. And.

Tell me more.

It. It's. We could say. We could use lots of different words that have been used to be. Describe this. So consciousness. So to become more conscious, you could say aware.

To become more present. I tend to speak about the presence. And when I am present, I am in one moment, and then the next moment and the next moment. And that means that I'm constantly aware that things are changing and that I have all these thoughts and feelings that are flowing through me, and I don't have to react to them, but I can just watch them ride by. I. I often imagine, like, leaves floating by. Now we've got snow out, so snowflakes floating by. Then I just observe. It's an observing without judgment, and it's an acceptance. So you're acknowledging and accepting that this is what our minds, this is what our brains do. We have these passing thoughts and feelings, and our job then, is to be present in this moment. So how do we do that one? I was reading about how gratitude is a huge connector and grounder. So it actually, when they've done brain scans, so FMRI studies, you go in the study, and then they ask you to express gratitude after doing something stressful. It downregulates the stress response.

Interesting.

So gratitude sounds like when you first wake up together. You know, you and I have our coffee in the mornings. We've started our new candle ritual where we light the candle and we don't go on our phones to start our day, but we talk and we express gratitude to each other, something that we've been working on. So that has been a really powerful way to start our day. And actually, because we were in book launch mode, I noticed we haven't done it. And so, you know, we have felt.

A little more time change messing up our candles. It's not dark enough.

I know. Anyways, we love to switch it to at night, but so gratitude. And that might be you committing in the morning to waking up and going to your partner and expressing something, something to them. That's one strategy. I tell people to find something you do every day and stack it with this exercise. So you're in the shower every day. Are you ever actually in the shower? Tell me more so I can be in the shower. But I am having the best solution for the problem that I am working through.

Okay.

I am 10 steps ahead. I'm already in the work meeting, having to navigate what I'm doing. I'm already with first client, second client, third client of the day. Oh, remember my third client. And we're working through this issue. Okay, what's going to show up today? That is you being everywhere but the shower.

Yeah. So is that autopilot?

That's autopilot. Because you don't actually have to think when you're in the shower anymore. Sorry, let me rephrase it. You don't actually have to tell yourself what to do when you get in the shower. It's the same thing as driving. Probably even like cooking an egg. Like those things. You don't. And when you say you have to do like you're. You're doing it. That's what the example. My words are stumbling today. I'm so sorry, everyone, but when we come into that bike moment I described earlier, in order for me to get my right leg over the bike, I had to then not just stand to the bike like I normally would with the left side of my body and throw my leg over and get on and start riding. I actually had to walk over and say, okay, I'm putting the right side of my body against the bike. And now I'm leaning forward and now I'm going to lift the right leg over. Like that's like narrate it, narrating it. So brushing your teeth in the shower. I like the shower. 1. What are you going to do in the shower? You can do 5, 4, 3, 2, 1. And this is all about presence. So five things that you can see. Look around and actually. Oh, wow, look at that blue on the Dove bottle. Here's a plug for Dove. You know, look at the. Whatever is this five things you see four things that you can hear. So then listening to different things. So as we record the podcast, of course, our heat has kicked on. Yeah, the dog barked. You can hear. Our little one's home sick today. So we heard her roaming around. So you know, being real, right? Four things you can touch. Okay, so what are the four things that you can actually touch? So feel the soap. Actually feel how the soap feels different. Grab a different kind of soap and feel. If you have a loofah, notice how that feels. Then three things that you can hear. And so us being home today, we just heard the heater kick on. The heat went on. It's cold here. The dog was barking. My daughter's roaming around in the house upstairs. She's homesick today, which is, you know, like, this is real parenthood, right?

Yeah, real deal.

And two things you can smell or taste. So when's the last time you actually smelled your soap? And then one slow, deep breath, you just being in your body. I remember one simple. I remember one dad I worked with and we decided that it was when he was making dinner and the kids were like yelling around. He would push his feet into the ground and stir the pot that he was making, like chili or soups. He would push his feet into the ground and like slow down his breath as he was stirring and actually notice the stirring motion. Rather than this kind of like, I'm stirring really quickly, guys, come on. I'm trying to make dinner. Right. So that is what people can do to help raise their consciousness, presence in their day to day life.

It's a good way to start too, I'd imagine.

Yeah.

Because is it more effective, you think, if you start like at the beginning of the day?

I think so.

In the shower versus like, you know, at lunch or whatever.

I think so. Because our brains then are waking up, we have lots of information coming in. And by lunchtime, how many choices have you made?

Too many.

And that is already exhausting your brain. But the ultimate goal, though in this is so that you can be more connected with your partner. That's what this is all about. But you have to downshift. I think of like gear shifting. As you know, I did not have a good experience learning how to drive stick with.

You blew up the water pump on.

The car, we got stranded.

And it was coincidence, but.

But I used the like shifting gears that when you're in autopilot mode, you're city driving.

Oh, yeah, right.

And so this is gear shifting. This is you saying, okay, you know what, when I'm on autopilot, I'm not connected with my partner. And so if you're Also thinking, well, why would I want to do this? Because connection is what we need. It's what helps us feel secure. It's what gives us dopamine and serotonin and oxytocin. And so if we slow down and pop out of that mode, then when I come in the kitchen, you see me and you come and give me a hug. That right there.

So are you seeing this more in couples, or is it more something you're noticing? It's always been there.

The experience of autopilot has always been there. And this is more of a challenge because of our environment. I think of my first couple that I worked with way back when we. I'm thinking of the phone device I had at the time where I'd have to press the like A or the one three times to get the C to, like, text someone. Yeah, we didn't have the stimulation like we did. We didn't have computers on our hands. So I do believe autopilot is a bigger issue right now. And I also believe we have more information to be able to get out of that. But we have to make those hard choices, and they really are. You and I were talking in preparation for this conversation, and so one of the things that I'd love for you to share is the difference between when you're on autopilot versus when you're not.

I think I mentioned it earlier is when I'm on autopilot, you kind of like in this constant state of reactivity.

Or reaction, and then like you're putting out fires.

Yeah, totally whack a mole. I think I used the.

That was a good analogy.

Kind of the analogy versus, like, when you're not. You're kind of operating. You're more of aware of kind of what's happening. You're operating with intention. You're thinking about the future. There's a direction. And that's how I think you move things forward, whether it's in your family, your business, whatever the case would be, versus this. This reactivity when you're. When you're on autopilot because you're like. You're not stopping and saying to yourself, like, what's going on for me here? You know, what. What's happening? So then you just move through versus when you can get off it. You can tune into the emotions, good, bad, or indifferent kind of stop it, and then kind of operate from a spot space of like, intentionality, I guess, is for lack of a better. I think of it more. More in the sense of, like, more forward looking. Like like looking forward to the future, thinking about the future, moving towards that instead of just reacting to what's happening.

For me it's interesting because the reaction piece I know so many people get stuck in and ultimately you and I have talked about kind of like that self fulfilling prophecy, how it can feel like that doesn't feel good when you've been trying to avoid having a hard conversation, but then the conversation is hard because you've been avoiding it.

Yeah.

And that's the reactivity rather than when we are connected with presence or our consciousness and awareness. It is this ability to, to. I keep coming back to this and I sound like such a therapist because I am. But it's, it's the. What is this for me in this moment? And can I tell you what I want and need? And anytime you tell me what I want to need, that to me and I think this is really interesting if we can really highlight this piece as a partner. When you tell me what you want to need, my brain lights up. And I know in conflict it's hard to know that because in conflict we spiral into our cycle. And so you don't understand, you don't feel that. Of course, because when people, when couples get stuck in their negative cycle.

Yeah, you're in something negative.

It's hard to know that. But on the day to day when I come to you and I share something or I say like what do you want for dinner? Well, just what do you want for dinner? What is for dinner tonight? And you tell me this is what I want to need, that lights me up because. Because it's this chance to see you. And when I then put the attachment lens on this, it's that you trust me to share those inner parts of you. And as a caregiver, as your attachment figure, that fills me up. That's what that is. And that's also why getting off autopilot is so important in a relationship.

Yeah, that makes a lot of sense.

I really.

Easier said than done. Maybe, but. Yeah, but maybe not as hard as you think. Like as we've even talked about, it's.

Like I use the gym analogy a lot and you've seen me recently increase my weights with going my study recently I picked up the £15. They felt light. But if I go to the gym once a month, nothing is going to change. Those 15 pounds will always be heavy. If you try this exercise in the shower once a week, it's not going to do anything. But if you do it every single day for a stretch of time, something could change and be different. So I think that consistency, not perfection, but consistency is really important. I'm like anything. I'm really grateful that you joined me for this conversation, Greg. I know that I put you in the hot seat on this podcast that you ask you to share about, like, your experiences because I know so many people do want to understand this and what it's like.

Yeah, I mean, hopefully my normie dude perspective can resonate with people. It's a bit of an offset to the higher level therapy stuff that you can offer which. Which is desperately needed.

Yeah, I think your opinions and. And voice here is really needed that people need to hear from you.

Yeah, well, just. I said another way. Just that hopefully people can relate to. This is something kind of normal and not something to worry about, but something to like, move through and help them have a better relationship ultimately.

And I want to contextualize our conversation today because we have not been talking about ptsd. We are not talking about trauma. No, the hyper vigilance and what it means to be on autopilot mode because of that experience. So I.

Good calling.

Do you want to put that call out there? But I am so grateful we've had this conversation. I hope that listeners today will walk away having those two exercises to try the gratitude exercise in the morning with their partner. And then also, are you really in your shower? Just asking. Ask yourself that today or tomorrow or ask your partner if they're really in their shower and maybe even asking each other what would it be like to show up differently together. And of course, if you're looking for more support on that, I have my online relationship program. It's called Be Connected. We have some exciting things coming down the pipeline in the next few weeks, so I'm just going to tease that right here. So make sure you are subscribed to my newsletter so that you'll get all the information. And of course, to support the the podcast, if you found anything helpful from today's episode, leave some stars, leave a review and share it with someone you love. It's the best way to support the podcast. All right, everyone, thanks for tuning in and we'll see you next time. I have to remind you at the end of every podcast episode that this is for informational purposes only and does not substitute for the care from a licensed mental health care provider. Take care of you.