How I Launched My Private Practice With A Full Schedule With Dr. Karen Kaufman

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Hi docs. Welcome to the Entre MD podcast where it's all about helping amazing physicians just like you, embrace entrepreneurship so you can have the freedom to live life and practice medicine on your terms. I'm your host, Dr. Imna. Well, hello. Hello everybody and welcome to another episode of the Entre MD podcast. We are going to be doing a private practice debrief with a doc who just launched her private practice. And listen, whether you are an intrapreneur, building your physician brand, or you have a service based business, or you have a product based business, I want you to lean in and really get all the juicy juice you can get out of this episode because she just had a rock star launch and there's a lot to learn from it. And you know, I'm even gonna take notes here because I don't know the whole story yet, but I know it's good. So I have Dr. Karen Kaufman here and she is going to introduce herself in a second, but she's gonna spill all the beans and we're gonna get so much out of this. And. And once you're done listening to this, I need you to go support her. I need you to go to her social media, go to her website, check her out and just make some noise for her, okay? She's doing this of her own free will, so be nice. All right? Okay. So, Dr. Karen, welcome to the show.

Thank you, Dr. Una. I'm so glad to be here. So let me take a moment to introduce myself. So my name is Dr. Karen Kaufman and I am a double board certified allergist, immunologist, and also internal medicine physician. And I help adults and children who are suffering from the burdensome symptoms of allergies and recurrent infections, medication, fatigue and quality of life impairment to feel better and get answers to their problems and get their life back like they deserve.

I love getting your life back now. You know that? Love it.

Absolutely.

And you know, I've talked to you a number of times, so it's obvious that you're passionate about what you do as far as how you serve your patients and stuff like that. So it's, it's really nice to see you start your own practice and, you know, enjoy it. So we're gonna go back, you know, a little. Well, what I would consider the beginning. Right. But it's not the beginning of all beginnings. But what made you want to start your own private practice in the first place?

That's a good question. So I think the decision really takes me back probably about 10 years or so to the time that I was in fellowship and when I was doing my subspecialty training. The senior fellow ahead of me and another who was a year or two ahead of her had planned to start their own practice right out of fellowship. And that was really the first time that it had occurred to me that that was a possibility. And I loved the idea. We would sit together, we would brainstorm about it, we would doodle what our logos would look like. It was a lot of dreams at the time, but there were a lot of seeds planted. My background is as a military physician and I spent 10 years on active duty in the Navy as a physician. And after I finished my fellowship, I still had a few more years of military service time that I knew I was going back to. But that thought of going into private practice was kind of already in the back of my mind. So when the time came to come out of the military, that's really where I first started to try to figure out what I wanted to do and where I wanted to do it. But I didn't really know the lay of the land in the area where I was going to live. And I didn't really know what to do or how to start. So I put that dream aside for a little while and I became an employee physician in a multi specialty group where I spent the next a little over five years of my practice there. But during that time was really where I Started to cultivate the plan to move forward and to build the practice of my dreams.

I like it. So it's not that you didn't necessarily like your job, it's just that this is what you had planned to do anyway.

It is. And I think there's just something so wholesome and precious about setting up your own practice to serve the community where you live. And so that had always been a dream of mine, to really be able to, you know, work in the town where I live and to help my local community.

I love it. Love, love, love. And thank you so much for your service. And I think I've told you this, that I was like, if I grew up here, I would be in the Navy. And truthfully, it's just because of the uniforms. Maybe I should go, I don't know, go act a role and wear the uniform. But anyway, so you already had this plan, you'd already talked to your colleagues about this and you guys had dreamt about it. Did it seem like it would be on autopilot or did you have some fears about it? Did you have some things that you thought would be challenges?

Oh, I thought they would all be challenges. I have no entrepreneurial background and I really didn't even know where to start in getting my feet wet. But when the time came to really make the decision about what I wanted to do and where I was in my practice and where I was in my life at the time, all of that started to coincide with the beginning of the pandemic, the COVID 19 pandemic. And so interestingly, at that time in my multi specialty practice, my full time schedule got reduced to part time. And so that was a decision that the practice owner had made. But it almost felt to me like that was a sign that I was being given all this extra time to figure it out and to answer all the questions that I had and to calm all those fears and to really start to get serious and to make plans. And so that's what I did. So it seems a little strange to decide to leave your secure employment during a pandemic.

And it does seem kind of strange, but that's kind of what entrepreneurs do, I think.

Yeah, I think so too. I mean, it's almost like, you know, and having, having a new practice is almost like having a new baby. But I kind of compare it that way too. Like there's never the right time to do it. You just have to decide and do it and it works and that's okay.

I love that. So the pandemic which could have been your invitation to say, I'm never going to do this was. What was the trigger that made you say, well, now I really am going to do this.

Now is the time.

Wow. Okay. Okay. Yeah. So I'm curious, your military background, has that helped you in this process at all?

Well, you know, I think one thing that I really gather from my time in the military is that there's more to being a physician than just taking care of patients. There is a lot of leadership and there's a lot of management and there's a lot of. There's a lot of steps involved in everything. And so I tried to really apply those principles to the way that I kind of started to develop my plans and moving forward. Really just take it very step by step, but, you know, lean on people where I need to, but also to take charge.

And take charge.

Proactive. Yeah, for sure.

Yes. Okay, so. So the pandemic hits. You get dropped to part time and you have this aha moment. Like, okay, now you're on borrowed time. So it's now time to finally face your fears and figure this out. So then what did you do after that?

Well, I started to look to any source of knowledge I could find. Right around that time, there was a virtual meeting for private practice physicians or people who are interested in private practice. It was called the Back to Busy Summit, which I attended virtually. And I took every little drip of knowledge I could get from that Back to Busy Summit and thought, all of this is going to be, you know, this is super applicable information and I'm going to learn from this. And a lot of it was because it was right at the beginning of the pandemic. It was really how to thrive in the setting of this situational adversity that all of us as physicians were dealing with. That was really the first time, actually that I came across you, Dr. Una, as you were one of the speakers speaking about marketing. And I thought to myself, this lady is genius. She has got all the experience beyond just virtual conferences like that one. I really kind of took a dive into several different social media groups, specific for private practice, both within my specialty, and then also kind of general private practice groups to learn from what other physicians were doing. I got together with friends and colleagues and called people I knew who had their own practice and really tried to soak it all in. And then toward the end of the summer, my family took a driving vacation. We live in Virginia. We were driving all the way out to Montana. And while we were in the car, my husband and I took turns driving, and when I was the driver, I got to pick what we listened to. And so we listened to a ton of podcasts, and that's when I first started listening to the Entre MD podcast. I listened to literally episode after episode after episode, and other podcasts, too. There's a lot of good information out there. And for any physician who's looking to go into private practice, these are really invaluable resources to learn from other people's experiences. And so that was around the time that I said to my husband, I said, I think you are going to think I am crazy, but I think I should invest in a business coach. And he was like, that's a great idea. And I thought to myself, gosh, I am so shocked, because I thought he was going to say, well, that is silly. Why would you do that? We really talked about it, and I felt like at this time, when I'm four or five months away from opening a practice, there is so much to learn and so much to do, and other people have done it already. So why invent a wheel that's already rolling? You know, I felt like you need to find someone who is doing it and then learn how to do it from them. And so, you know, Dr. Una, you and I, you trained. You and I trained around the same time. We're about the same age. And you've been in practice now for over a decade, right?

Yeah, it's going to be in a few months.

And I thought to myself, she figured it out and she's thriving and clearly. So I said, I'm going to just learn what she did and do that. That's what drew me to find you and to learn a little bit more about opportunities in the Entre MD Business school, where there are so many people to learn from. So a lot of my preparation for entrepreneurship not only came from just learning about the business of medicine, but also learning from other. Other physicians and how they thrive in their own frame of entrepreneurship. Because there's a lot to learn from other people for sure now.

So I need to unpack all of this because this is. This is like liquid gold. Right?

Okay.

Now, first of all, I didn't know the first time we met, you know, quote unquote, was at the back to busy summit. Like, that is so cool.

It was great.

Yeah, it was a great conference. Phil Boucher, it was. It was a really good one.

He's great.

But you did. It's very. You're very insightful. You know, I don't know if you know that. But so here you are. You're like, okay, I'm going to go for the conference. I'm going to go to these specific Facebook groups. I'm going to call all the people I know who own their own practices. I'm going to talk to people who have been successful. I'm going to join the entremd business school. What you did was you created an immersion experience for yourself. And that's what. Yeah. And that's one of the things that, to me, is the fastest way to transform yourself. Right. So if you're like, I'm going from employee to entrepreneur, how do I make that change? Immersion is the fastest way. And you went like, head on. Right. So you have a long trip and not now. You have to listen to the podcast. Your husband has to listen to your podcast. Do you travel with the kids on that trip, too? Everybody had to listen to the Andre MD podcast. And that's just an immersion. And if I remember correctly, I think when we talked, I think that was right after you started the business school. You're like, I'm done. I'm like, done with what? She's like, oh, I'm all caught up. I've listened to all the episodes. I like all the episodes. At that point, I think we're 62 or 65 episodes. And I'm like, golly. So for everyone listening, that's immersion. And if you do that, the rate at which you'll change will be so quick. So quick. Because, I mean, it's like putting me. I'm not really good with languages, right. I speak every language with an accent, but if you threw me in Spain, I will figure out Spanish. Right. And not because I want to, but because it's immersion. I don't have a choice, you know? And that's what you did. That is fantastic. Fantastic.

Well, it was. I was really starting at the very beginning. And for anybody who wants to open a practice, it sounds like such a great idea until you realize you know nothing about opening a practice. So if you don't learn from other people's experience, then you really, you know, you really start out lost. And I really wanted to start out busy.

I love it. And you got what you wanted. And we'll talk about that in a second. But that is so good. I was a little more ignorant. No, I was a lot more ignorant than you.

Right.

So I subscribed to the philosophy of hang the shingle and they will come. Yeah, right. That was my thought process. Like, just, you know, just put it out there and it would be amazing. And I hung the shingle and they did not come. And then I had to start figuring this stuff out. So that was really funny. I'm glad. I'm glad you got that.

Well, I heard you say that once before on one of your podcast episodes, I think. And so I already learned that lesson.

She's like, I'm not going to do that.

Don't hang a shingle and just stand there.

Right. All right, so we're going to talk about your amazing first week in practice. Right. But before we do that, what did you have to do? So your plan was, I want to start busy, right?

That's right.

And the traditional method for most is, you know, you focus on your credentialing and your building and your staff and.

All of that stuff, which you have to do. Right.

So don't get me wrong. But then the marketing piece really comes after you have everything in place. So what was your pre launch plan, if you would?

So my pre launch plan, well, really started when I decided to join the. Well, actually before I decided to join the Entre MD Business School. So I came to a Zoom meeting that you offered to really think it out and really think, you know, I know that the business school is opening and is it for me, you know, I felt like maybe it's for physician entrepreneurs who have a side gig, but was it really for a physician who was going to open a practice? And I asked you a question during the Zoom relating to that, and your answer was in reference to another physician who had been working with you and had a list of patients ready to go when their practice started. And I thought to myself, I didn't even know that was a thing. Like, I want a list. I want a list. Just like that.

I want a list. I like it.

I want a list. So I decided to join the Entre MD Business School. This was back in August, and I decided right away to start marketing, but I had to be a little bit, I can't think of the right word, like a little conservative, because I hadn't given notice yet at my place of employment. So I couldn't put it out there, hey, I'm starting a practice that would not have gone well. But I just started putting myself out there, mostly through social media and talking about my philosophy as a physician and what makes me different and what my patients think about me. And I learned to become a speaker and I did some speaking in a local mom's group, and I became a podcast guest and another podcast guest and so on and so forth. And Then finally, when. Oh, and then the other thing is, I built my own website, which was fabulous. And then once the time came where I was able to give notice, which is in late September, then I kind of totally shifted gear from just talking about what I could offer to everyone. And then I kind of changed to where I could offer it to everyone, which is in my new practice.

Love, love, love it.

So through my website, I put up an opportunity, like just a link where patients, future patients, could join a VIP list where they could become scheduled for appointments before the practice even opened. And I continued to market myself, and I continued to show up every day, even when it wasn't convenient and even when it was difficult. It's not always easy to be present, but when you're building a business and you're building a practice, you need to put yourself out there. So I did. And I. And I kept showing up. And as I did, the list started to grow.

And you didn't have a building at the time, right? You didn't have. There was no practice. But I remember how with each challenge we did like, go do a video. Go. Go be a guest in a Facebook group. You embraced it all. All embraced all of it. And to watch you do that, go on podcasts, you know, go make all these networks and stuff like that, that was just so good. And you literally did show up daily. Did you ever feel discouraged? Any of those times, you ever feel like, is this working? What am I doing this for? Because what you're doing is not what traditionally, that's not what private practice docs do, right? So did you ever feel like this is crazy sometimes?

I mean, it's so easy to get caught up in self doubt. And I felt like the days that I was excited had to outnumber the days that I was scared. And on the days that I was scared, I just thought back to the days that I was excited and just let that kind of run me further a little bit. And even when I didn't want to necessarily maybe put myself out there and talk about my practice, what I did was I embraced my local community, which is where my practice is located, and I started to get involved more in community outreach and getting to know my neighbors and kind of just doing things around town. And so actually it's interesting because a lot of places now where, you know, new patients are finding me from are from different local community groups on Facebook. And, you know, they'll say, well, I was looking for an allergist, and everybody recommends you, you know, so it's great because, you know, maybe if I didn't make those connections or, you know, do that kind of outreach, maybe people wouldn't know I'm here. And one of the biggest problems is obscurity. And just hoping that people know you're there isn't enough. You have to tell them that you're there and what you can do to help them.

You know I'm loving all of this, right? Like, if you're listening on the podcast, you can't see me, but I'm just, like, grinning ear to ear. My face is almost hurting. This is so good. So good. All right, so now you said, I want a list. And then you start working on the list and you start putting yourself out there, even though sometimes it was. You were feeling discouraged, and sometimes it didn't quite go the way you wanted it to. So tell us about this list. So before you were ready to open your doors, how many people did you have on this list?

We ended up with about 350 people on the list before we opened. And so what was so crazy was the idea of the list gets me so excited to think about it, to talk about it. But actually, it's funny, right now my hands are even sweating just thinking about this. Because now we're at the point where about two weeks before opening, or two and a half weeks before opening, we're a week before my staff is even starting. And I'm thinking about these 350 people. And what I had told them is, we're going to schedule you before we even open. And I thought, who's going to do scheduling? So I wear all the hats, right? I'm a small business owner. So I became one of the schedulers, and I enlisted the help of my family members, and I said, look, I need you guys to do this training in my ehr so you can learn how to schedule. And we were the schedulers, and we called people every day, all day, and we got all these 350 people contacted, and some of them who maybe had gotten on the list months ago, maybe they found another provider between then and now, and that's okay. And some of them, some of them were knocking on the door, ready to. Ready to get right in for the first appointment. So, you know, we saw quite, quite a bit of that. But actually, before opening, we had about 270 patients registered and scheduled, which is amazing.

Okay, so I am literally pulling out my calculator because I'm going like, that is not half bad. You made a list that is not half bad. And 77% of the people who got on that list made appointments within your first. I mean, because you had these scheduled before you opened, right?

Correct. Yeah.

Okay, so 77% of them scheduled before you open. That is ridiculous.

It really is such a blessing.

That is so good. Okay, that's great. All right. You have me all kinds of excited now. 77%. Oh, my goodness. Okay.

And this was all from just doing the simple things and just following guidance of all of these simple things to do. It wasn't hard. Right. But I did it.

You know, I'm so happy you said that. Simple.

It wasn't hard.

Not complicated.

Not at all.

Not complicated. The simple things. And here you are. You start a practice before your doors are open. You have over 270 patients scheduled. I hope you know this is not normal.

It feels really crazy. It's totally surreal.

I mean, okay, so you had these people scheduled. So talk to me about your first week. What was your. I know you started on a Thursday, right?

Correct.

So Thursday to Thursday. What was that experience? Like? How many people did you see? What. What was it like, your first week? Finally, the dream has come through. True. Right? The thing that you are dueling about in fellowship is now a reality. Right. So what was it like?

It was a crazy, crazy week. So, you know, I will just start and say, look, and I'm sure this is true for any entrepreneurial adventure, but especially in private practice. I quickly got over the hopes that everything would go right, because pretty much like, everything went some kind of not right. And so I really started becoming very flexible and more adaptable. And, you know, I had a little bit of a go with the flow attitude, and let's try to troubleshoot everything. But I started with a pretty full schedule. So I saw 15 patients on my first day. And in the first week, I saw 71 patients, which was just so amazing. That is so cool. But in the midst of all of that, boy, did I learn that there was a lot of other stuff going on aside from patient care. And I will say that by the end of day two, I was already losing my mind about staffing and needs. Now that I'm actually seeing what a day looks like, I put out another job listing for front desk. You know, front desk, person, receptionist. And so I thought, okay, well, it's going to be better. We're going to start interviewing, and we'll find. We'll find someone else. More personnel will always be better. And so Monday went pretty well. And then I had one of my nurses who got sick, and she actually was out for the rest of the week with kind of like upper respiratory type symptoms and low grade fever. She had a negative COVID test. They think it's flu. So she's out. And I have.

You don't have a whole team cross trained to take care of all this?

I don't have a whole team, period. I have another nurse who hasn't even started yet, starting next week. So for four days of this past week, literally I had one medical assistant and myself. When we were running, we were doing it all. It was totally crazy. And that was amidst staffing was just only one of the issues. So there's a lot of fires to put out. But I will tell you, none of the patients could tell. None of the patients could tell. They all had this wonderful experience and they were all just so gracious and so lovely and so happy to be cared for. And honestly, I felt so good too, no matter all the stressors, because it had been two months since I provided patient care. And to me that's so special, you know, And I needed that. So. So it was a wonderful week. I learned. I learned a ton.

And you're talking like a true entrepreneur that everything that could have gone wrong went wrong. But I had a wonderful week, you know, but the beauty of what you're experiencing is that you're experiencing problems that people have six months, nine months, a year down the line. And so you're experiencing these staffing problems. It's a problem, but it's also an indication of massive growth. Because if you didn't have any patients, you wouldn't notice these problems. Like, these problems wouldn't show up yet. Do you see what I'm saying? Like, if you had one patient on your schedule, it won't be a big deal that your nurse was out sick. You probably go like, thank God she's out. Not that she's sick, but you know what I mean? Like, we don't, we don't have the patient volume to keep her busy. So. Yeah, you know what I mean? And you want to take weeks after that. So you're having amazing problems because they're problems that come from growth. And the same way you work, the list is the same way you're going to work staffing is the same way you're going to work systems. And this is just going to keep getting better and better. This, this is good.

It's great. It's great because I'm already, I'm recognizing places where I didn't necessarily think in advance that I would need to implement certain processes. But after One week. I'm already recognizing this process is worthwhile because it's going to streamline my day. It's going to save me time. It's going to allow me more time with my patients. So, you know, I'm already setting the wheels in motion to, you know, to get a virtual scribe to have some integration of some of my software systems, things like that, that I kind of thought to myself, like, well, those will be things that I'll need down the line. I need them now. I need them now. Yeah, because that is good.

You're having great problems. Because they're growth problems. They're good problems. This is. This is so good. So how do you feel about your practice?

Right.

So, I mean, in fellowship, I don't know if you're like, yeah, we'll try it. Not try it, but we'll do it. We'll see how it works. But now you're in it. So when you think about, you know, 12 months from now, what. What. What is your outlook?

I have a wonderful outlook for this practice. I know that my community needs me, and I know that there is a population here that needs to be served and that I'm the person to do it. And so I see that the growth is going to continue. I think it's going to be wildly successful. I think that, you know. Well, we're not even in our practice location yet, believe it or not. So, of course, with. With COVID we had a construction delay, so I'm in temporary space. So we're going to be in a brand new space in another couple months, and I just see a lot of growth. You know, I'd love to bring another provider on board and. And see how it all goes. So I'm super excited about it. I'm just loving it. All the difficulties can take a backseat to all the joy that I feel.

Love it. All the difficulties can take a backseat to the joy that I feel. This is for everybody. Listening difficulties. That's part of entrepreneurship. Just give them the backseat. Keep the joy in front. Yes, that's right. So you get to do two grand openings. You have another excuse to make a lot of noise. Like when you get into your permanent space.

Yes, ma'.

Am.

I'm getting the giant scissors. We're going to cut that ribbon.

I love it. Why make noise once when you can do it twice?

So, actually, funny, I got these giant happy birthday balloons for the first day, and everyone kept saying, well, whose birthday is it?

My practice's birthday.

Exactly.

So for you personally, because I find that entrepreneurship Is one of the. One of those things that changes all of you. Right. It's not just this business compartment, and then everything else stays the same. So how is embracing entrepreneurship changed you personally?

You know, I don't know. I feel like it was just born for this. I know that. I don't feel like it's changed me that much, to be honest with you. Maybe it's made me a little bit more extroverted when I feel like I'd rather be introverted. But, you know, I'm really just kind of embracing it as I go. I'm recognizing that these are the steps that you have to take to do it, and then I'm just doing it. And, you know, I feel like, as physicians, we are really good learners. You know, we're good students. We made it a very long way, and this is just one new thing to learn. Well, it's a lot of new things to learn, but it's a new category of things to learn, and we're capable of doing it. And when my kids were in kindergarten and their kindergarten teachers said to them, you know, you can do the hard things, that applies to all of us. We can do that.

Take the lesson from the kindergarten teacher. You can do hard things. Yes. I love it. I love it. I love it. It's just one more thing to learn. And we are skilled at learning, so we got this.

And very capable.

Very capable. Okay. All right. So you talked about the on trendy business school earlier. So what has your experience been like and in the school and, you know, how has that helped you with your journey and all of that? I'm curious.

The business school is great. The business school is a place for focused learning, for expanding my outlook to include things I hadn't considered before, and to really learn from the successes of other entrepreneurs, my classmates. I learn a lot from them, and we all support one another in all of our entrepreneurial journeys. The opportunity to be a speaker at the Expo was a wonderful experience. You know, going into that, I felt very nervous and apprehensive. But just to tell my story to other people was a magical experience. To really dive into my own, you know, inner workings and really get to the bottom of what. What I need to do and why I need to do it. I've had an invaluable experience. I love our weekly meetings then, you know, getting to learn from everybody else's experience and progress. It's really helpful.

I'm happy to hear that. I'm happy to hear that. I'm glad it's been an experience. And. And the expo was really so much fun for me. I mean, you brought that up. Guys, if you're. You're listening, you can go to YouTube channel and the videos are there. But, I mean, the docs nailed it, like, thoroughly killed it. And that was so much fun. And you didn't do a lot of speaking before this, did you?

No, not before. I felt encouraged to do it through what we were learning. And speaking is such an important thing because it gives you that credibility that, I mean, you have the credibility anyways, but it shows other people your credibility and it helps to put yourself out there. And honestly, I've gotten a lot of patients, new patients who have been interested in coming to see me because of speaking engagements that I've done. So that's a really important skill. And learning how to speak in a public arena has been a wonderful skill to learn.

Love it. Love it. I'm so excited about your practice. Like, I. I'm already waiting. Like, I'm going to need to do a December update. You know this. So what would you say to the person? Because a lot of the listeners are in a point where they're either going to start a business or they're going to scale their business. You know, either way, it's the same thing. Right? Because you're going to take a leap. But so for the person specifically who's been thinking about starting a private practice, but they're like, you know, it's hard, and there's Covid, and the hospitals are taking over and insurance reimbursements are dwindling and all of that stuff, what would you say to that person?

I would tell that person that they owe it to themselves to find happiness in their career. And if that includes being in private practice, then it doesn't matter if we live in a pandemic. All of those things are out there for them. And it doesn't take a lot of complicated steps, but it's little steps, but it's doing all of them. And that will bring those patients to their practice and they can build their list just like I did. I didn't do anything special. I just did all of the simple things. And they can do it, too.

I love it. It's simple. Some simple steps, but you have to take all of them.

You have to do it.

This is so good. I'm going to go listen to this again. Okay. This is really good. So people want to find you. Where do they find. They're like, oh, my God, I want to follow her. I want to. I want to check her website out. I want to know more about her. Where do they find you?

So my website. So I am an allergist, immunologist in Northern Virginia. And my website is kaufmanallergy.com which is k a u f m a n allergy.com and they can also find me on social media. I'm on Facebook and Instagram. Facebook, hoffmanallergy and on Instagram @doctor Kaufmanallergy.

Love it. All right, people, go follow her, shout her out. Let her know you listened to this and it was amazing and you were encouraged by it. And do you have any final words you want to leave with anybody? Entrepreneurship in general.

I think my best advice is to show up even when you don't want to show up, and put yourself out there and grow your community around you. And all of the hard work that you put into it will pay you back for sure.

This is so good. Thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you for coming on. Listen, people, I told you this was going to be a really good episode. See, there you go. So this is what I want you guys to do. Okay? I want you to take a snapshot, a screenshot of this episode, wherever you're listening from, and I want you to post it on social media. I want you to post your biggest takeaway and tag Dr. Karen on it. Okay, you can tag me too. Entre md. And I would love to give you a shout out as well, but go do that. And if you're a listener and you haven't reviewed this podcast yet, what in the world? Okay, go. Leave us a nice, lovely five star review. If you have any issues, come tell me. Don't put it on Apple podcasts. Okay, well, thank you so much for listening and Dr. Kaufman, thank you so much for coming to share your story. We wish you nothing but the best, but I think you're gonna knock this out the park. Thank you for coming.

Thank you so much for having me.

My pleasure. All right, people, we'll see you on the very next episode of the ontremd podcast. Hey, if you love listening to the ontremd podcast, I wanna invite you to join ontramd on demand. It is my signature subscription program that gives you access to a library of business courses designed to help you do one thing as a physician entrepreneur, and that is to thrive. Just head out to entrend.com forward/ondemand and I'd love to have you join us.

See you on the inside.