How to deal with negative self-talk with Dr. Michelle Quirk

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Hi docs. Welcome to the Entre MD podcast where it's all about helping amazing physicians just like you embrace entrepreneurship so you can have the freedom to live life and practice medicine on your terms. I'm your host, Dr. Imna. Well, hello everybody. Welcome back to another exciting episode of the Entre MD podcast. And we're gonna be talking about negative self talk, like how to overcome that, how to achieve a lot in spite of it. And I have a guest on today and she is a run coach. This is. Now you guys know I love drawing analogy from athletes to business. I love drawing analogies because it's the same principles, right? The same principles of greatness and all of that stuff. So couldn't think of somebody better. So our guest today is Dr. Michelle Quirk and this is going to be a really good episode. So welcome to the show. I'm happy you're here.

Thank you so much for having me, Dr. Una. I have been very excited about this since we discussed it a couple of weeks ago.

And I'm excited too. I think people are going to get a whole lot out of this, right? So this is going to be really good. So I'm going to let you take a moment and introduce yourself to the audience.

Okay, sure. So I am a board certified pediatrician, a runner and a run coach. And I founded my company Mindful Marathon to help make running easy and fun for busy professionals like you and me.

And you know how much I love what you do, right? I think I first saw you post about it on Facebook. I'm like, wait a minute, right? Like what? And then to see all the testimonials from your clients, which is evidence that, yes, I do make this fun and easy. And you can do your first 5k, your first 10k, your first marathon, and it's been fun to watch. So this is going to be. This is going to be good. All right, so runners. Do runners experience negative self talk? Is. Is that a thing or everybody's all positive and they get it done?

No, it comes up all the time. And for me, especially when I started running, I was not always a runner. This is, this is an interesting point. And when I was a kid, I struggled to do the mile run in school and huffed and puffed my way around and I really tried. I tried to run. I saw my friends running in medical school and residency and I tried to get into it and it just, it wasn't working for me. And so I know now that I, for a long time I was telling myself that I was not a runner. That was just not who I was and not something that I could do. So as I started to run more and really get into the sport, I started to notice how those thoughts really impacted how things were going for me, just on my day to day as a runner, but also at races and when I became a coach. And yeah, negative self talk comes up all the time. And I think just, we're human, so of course we're going to have negative thoughts and negative self talk. So it really comes up all the time.

So the thought that you had about not being a runner stopped you from running, because I didn't know that you couldn't do the mile run as a kid. So now let's give people perspective. Right, so that was you. How many marathons have you run?

I run two marathons. Okay, marathons, but lot, lots of half marathons and other races. And I really started running more consistently about eight years ago. So that was really. I mean, that was after my residency. So I came to it in my early 30s, which was maybe a little bit later than some people think. I was not a track star or anything in high school, and I really struggle with that.

Yeah, I like that you say that because again, you know, we're extrapolating to business here. That means if you didn't start off with the skills and you know, you feel like, oh, but you know, these people are rocking in their 20s and here I am 40. Can I do it? Yes, yes. Yes, you can, right? We don't have to start off with a stellar record to be able to do what we need to do. That is so good. Okay, exactly. Now, so you're doing a marathon, you're doing a half marathon, or you're doing a 5k and negative self talk shows up. What kind of impact does it have on a runner's ability to finish a race or finish a race in the time that they want to and stuff like that?

I would say even let alone start the race, like, for me, it really. It came up for me at the start line a lot of times where when I first started out, I'd get to the start line and look around, and I always saw the people who didn't look like me, and I thought, you know, I. I'm not as fast as them. I'm kind of a slow runner. Sometimes I have to walk. I just. I didn't identify with them. And there it was again. I'm not a runner, and I don't belong here, even at the start line. And of course, it never prevented me from running the race. But. But those thoughts were definitely there at the beginning, like, what am I doing here? And who do I think I am, you know, at this half marathon? You know, wow. And so I think, I mean, for sure, that that held me back, but I know a lot of runners struggle with it within just a training run and within a race as well. And, you know, if. If you get into a negative thought pattern, it can really affect your speed, and it can make the run harder than it really. It really is. Like, you think, wow, this is hard. I'm tired. Oh, my goodness. And you get into a whole negative loop where all of a sudden you are slower. You know, turn it around and make it positive. It really can change things.

So it makes it. It makes you go slower. It makes the journey. Journey harder than it needs to be, and you may not even start. So let me ask you, this has this same pattern. Have you seen it show up in your life as an entrepreneur?

For sure.

Okay, so tell me a little about that.

The same. Almost some of the same thoughts. So I think a big one for me with running was that I don't belong here. And the same thing has come up with entrepreneurship. And when I became a run coach and started putting myself out there, there was a lot of comparitis, as you like to call it, Dr. Unna, especially looking at other runners and run coaches on social media and comparing what I'm doing and what they're doing and. And race times and Boston qualifying marathon times. And I just thought, there's that thought again. I am not like everyone else, and I don't belong here. And, yeah, it's come up over and over again. But the fact that I recognize that in my running has really translated well to entrepreneurship and kind of changing that for both running and business.

Love it. That's a twofer. Two for the price of one.

Yes.

Now, I love that you say, maybe I don't belong here. Right. And you look at other runners and you're like, oh, they've done this race and they've done that race, and they're more, you know, professional. They've done things I haven't done. But do you know the funny thing? Like, I've always wanted to be a runner, and at some point, you and I will figure this out, right? Yes, at some point. We have to. But I would not be drawn to the person with tons of accomplishments. I would most likely be drawn to somebody like you, because I'm like, you get it, right? So you were not a runner in the beginning. You huffed and puffed and couldn't figure it out. You're a pediatrician. You're a mom. You're not running to get all the medals. You're running to run, to enjoy it, to complete it, and stuff like that. And that's what I want.

Right.

I don't. I don't want to finish first at a Boston Marathon. Like, that's not with it. I don't want that. Right. I may want to complete it, and that's good enough for me. Do you see what I mean? So it's interesting that the things that make us unique are sometimes the things we perceive as disadvantages when that's actually our advantage.

Yes.

Because I would not go to the other people you're describing at all.

Exactly. Exactly. And that's what my people tell me. Like, I found you because of this.

Yeah.

Because you struggled with it. Because you know how to get me to run slower so that I can achieve these goals. So true. It's true.

Yeah. So own it. It's. It's. Yeah, own it. All right, so now tell us some of your strategies. So, as a runner, how did you manage not. Did you. Like, you don't run anymore? How do you manage negative self talk?

I think the first step is that I started to recognize it.

Okay.

And so how do you recognize it? Right. So I started keeping a training journal a long time ago when I started working with my Own running coach. And a lot of what went in there at the beginning was objective stuff. You know, this was the workout, this was the pace, this was the weather. And, you know, I had to grade my effort on the run and how I felt. But as I got into it, I started to kind of expand. And when the run was harder, for some reason, I started to delve into why that was and all of the thoughts and the talk that came up while I was on the run. And I noticed that whenever it didn't quite go as planned, which was often, you know, if I had to cut a run short, if I couldn't meet the pace that my coach thought that I could meet, I would automatically think this was a failure. And there comes up the thought again. No matter what, it would always go back to, you're not a runner and you don't belong here. And so by writing that out and looking at my journal over a couple of weeks, I started to see that those were the common things, the common threads through it. And so once I realized that, I started to recognize it in the day to day, and when I was on the run and things weren't going according to plan, I would think, oh, okay, my brain is going there, like, yep, you're not a runner. And then I can, all of a sudden I'm able to recognize it and start to turn it off and have a different. A different voice in my head instead of that one and all of that negative stuff. So I think recognizing it is the first step. It's not easy, but it can be done.

I love it. I love all of that. And you talk about, you know, like, on a day where it didn't go according to plan, sitting back and evaluating that. Right. And a lot of times that stuff we don't do, we kind of just breeze through life. Right. And, you know, for someone who's an entrepreneur, that could look like this launch didn't go the way I wanted it to. Right? And then analyze what you're thinking, analyze what thought patterns showed up. Right? And because sometimes, you know, like you said, sometimes it's at the beginning of the race, you're just like, I don't belong here. And sometimes we have to do a launch or we have to start something and we sabotage it before we even start. And so thought that got us there, you know, so being able to stop and slow down and analyze that to say okay is almost like doing a brain dump. Right? These are all the things I've been thinking. And then you pick out the things that are Kind of, you know, messing you up. I love.

Yes.

Love it, love it. Okay, that's number one. Give us number two.

That's number one. Okay, so then number two. I've started to talk to myself the way that I would talk to my best friend. And I could tell you this comes up for me a lot in a race. If you were talking about races. The last in person race I ran, because now we're in the middle of this pandemic, was the Disney marathon last January, January 2020. And I was running this race with a very dear friend of mine and it was like the hottest day of the year in Florida. It was so hot. Dr. Una. And so we're running along and you know, in the middle of the marathon, I'm having thoughts like, we should call the Uber, take us to the finish line, go to the pool, have a beer. Like, it was so hot. But I didn't say that stuff out loud. But I know that if I did, my friend Jen would have never gone for that. Right. And if she had said the same thing, there's no way that I would have let her quit. Right. So there have been times in races when I've seen people struggling and I've been struggling and someone has come up to me and said a kind word or just, you know, we've got this, keep going, we're so close. Don't give up, like all of that stuff. And so I'm thinking I should talk to myself the way I would talk to my friend or to my athletes, how my coach talks to me.

Yes.

Right. I would never let my friend quit. I would never let my athletes quit unless there's some kind of injury, obviously, or something like that. But yeah. So now, you know, I hear my voice kind of in the third person when things are getting difficult. I'm like, you know what? You've got this. You've done much harder things. And like you always say, you know, we train to become doctors. I stuck needles in babies backs for LPs, like, I can do this, I can do this.

I love it. So you're your own cheerleader.

Yeah.

And not just cheerleader in a fancy, just be positive in spite of everything kind of way. Maybe like a, like a coach in your corner. Yeah. Like, you got this, you trained for this. Don't you dare quit. I like it.

Yes.

I like, I do that too. I talk to myself quite a bit.

Yeah.

I'll tell you something funny.

Yeah.

When I'm going to do something that I know is going to be challenging and that squirrel brain is going to start talking. I would actually write out a whole belief plan. Like I would write out a whole thing that I will tell myself when that narrative starts.

I love that.

Right? Like, so I've already. I've anticipated that this is gonna happen and I get to work on it. And I started doing that last year was so much fun. I was like, this is good. Yeah.

You would be a great marathon runner, Dr. Una, because you can plan out what you're gonna feel and think at all the miles.

Okay, you guys can't see this if you're listening to the podcast. I just made a face at her. But yes, yes, I agree. I'm using business to practice for the marathon. How about.

I love it.

I love it. Mental toughness required.

Perfect.

Okay. Okay. So that's the second thing you do is you talk to yourself. Like, you know, you would talk to your best friend or your coach would talk to you and stuff like that. That's really powerful. Actually, another thing that I've done is I've had times where I would record those things because, you know, in the heat of the battle, it's like, I just want to quit. Like, I know I should talk to myself like that, but I don't want to. Right?

Yes.

So sometimes I will record it as a voice memo on my phone. Like, girl, don't you dare. You've got this. It's hard, but you can do hard things so that, you know, in those times, I can play it to myself. I don't have to generate all this talk.

I love that idea to record it. That's great.

Yeah. All right, so that's number two. You have a number two?

Yes, I have number three.

Okay, let's do it.

Okay. Number three is find a mantra. Okay. So a mantra is used in sports quite a bit. And a lot of runners use these. It's basically a word, a phrase, a song lyric, a sentence that can. You can focus your mind on and take your mind out of whatever else it was thinking about before that. So if you get into. Once you recognize that you're having some negative self talk going on to break that pattern, you can go to your mantra. And so I have a bunch that. That pop into my head and then I use all of the time. But this has been helpful even this year with the pandemic and working in my clinical role. I have a mantra that is run the mile you're in. And that's very helpful for any kind of long race. I love that for life and for business.

I Love that. Run the mile, you're in.

Yes.

Okay. I'm sorry.

No, it's okay. It's okay. Run the mile, you're in. Then there is relentless pursuit of forward momentum. Can't tell you how many times I said that to myself. Running 26 miles. But just one small step, one foot after the other. I love that one. And a third one. I have to give a shout out to a very inspiring and amazing coach and athlete. If anybody has a peloton bike or you use the app, you will recognize her. But Christine Dierko is just an amazing athlete and inspiring human. She is a masters championship cyclist, and during her rides she has her own mantra, I would say, which is I am, I can, I will, I do. And she often will have us, us being all of the people on the, on the bike, on the app, close our eyes and finish those phrases. So she'll say, I am, and then you finish the phrase. I can finish the phrase. And at the beginning when I started taking rides with her, I thought, well, maybe this is a little bit woo woo. Like, I don't know, I don't usually close my eyes when I'm on the spin bike and I want to see my output and I'm very numbers driven and all of these things. But I noticed that when I started to do that and finish those phrases that when I was running and things would get hard, I would hear her voice in my head and finish the phrases. And over time, those have become my phrases and my own voice. So I've shared this with my athletes too, and people find this very helpful. If you, you can find what works for you. If this doesn't resonate with you, find a mantra that works for you. But really, as she says, the words that you tell yourself are the most important words. And so I think the more we can tell ourselves positive things that we truly believe about ourselves, then the more we will reach our goals. And really, the sky is the limit at that point.

I like that. I am, I can, I will, I do, I do. And you're right, a lot of mindset stuff, you know, at the beginning it's like, ooh, that's a little woo woo, But. But it works. It does, it really does work. In the, in the entremd business school, for those of you who are listening, we, we started a transformation challenge because, you know, the idea is to start January off with a bang. And a lot of it, you know, half of it was mindset work and the other half was actual action. And it was just so Cool to watch the transformation, I think. Doctor. Dr. Michelle, that's when you started talking about this model, you know, and a lot of people adopted it, which is really cool. And once we change the way we think, I mean, like. Like you said, you kind of become limitless, you know, like, it's. It's. It's amazing. So now. So what. What is. How have you applied this same model Right. To the business side of things? So not you as a runner, but you as a run coach.

Yeah, I would say that I've just put in different words at the end of those phrases. So what I have done for our January challenge is to read these and write these every morning in my journal. So the same way I keep a training journal for running, I have a journal for being a coach and for my business as well.

Okay.

And so, you know, so I am an entrepreneur. This goes to saying that I do belong here, and, you know, I can do hard things, and sometimes I expand on that and write down just for examples of hard things that I've done in the past. So I like to give my brain examples to prove that.

Yeah.

Evidence. Yes. I will do my best to help my athletes, and I do show up every day for my business. So that was my little.

I do show up every day for my business. I like that. And you have been doing that.

Yes.

That is so good. I do show up every day for my business. Okay, so now at the time of this recording, we are three weeks into the challenge. Right. So what has that done for you, working on that mantra for your business? Yeah.

I think I have made a lot more asks this January than I have in the past, and we previously had an ask a day challenge, so that was really great for me as well. But I am definitely an introvert, and it has been hard to put myself out there with being a coach and growing this business. But the interesting thing is that as I have asked more and I have worked on this mindset, I feel like my confidence has grown, and I feel much more comfortable asking. I have done a lot of collaboration projects this month, and I have a lot more in the works just by asking, you know, things that I thought of and I wrote down in my journal maybe months ago, but I never took action on it just because I had to ask someone or send an email or a message and really try to seek out opportunities. So I think that's really been the biggest thing for me is the confidence and just realizing that if I ask, then I get a lot more yeses. You know, I get Some no's as well. But in order to get more yeses, you have to ask more.

So as a fellow introvert, right, I'm taking myself back to the beginning of my journey as an entrepreneur. I'm loving all of this, right, because your introvert, who is now saying, I'm more confident, I'm more comfortable doing uncomfortable things, I have, I mean, like the time of this recording, we're at the beginning of the third week of January. And you're like, I've done so. Which means you got a yes. And you've already done so many collaboration projects and you have so many more in the works, which means you're creating a snowball effect that's about to show up for your business, which is great. And what a way to start the year, right? I mean, like, that is so cool.

We are starting off with the bang with the bang.

That's what we're doing okay now. So we've, we've talked about the business school a little bit and you know, for me I have a little bit of a bias, but I'm just happy that it's very action oriented, Right. Like we're not just going to come here and, you know, come up with theories and hypothetical things, we're going to go do things. Right. And so that's just me. But you've been in the school for a bit, so tell me about it. And I haven't. This is not a prepped answer, so I'm really curious as to what you'll say, what your experience has been like, what wins you've had.

Yeah, I think so. I joined the business school in September, early September, but it feels like much longer. I feel like this is a little family and we have known each other a lot longer, but I really have put myself out there so much more since joining and I think it's really that the group itself is inspiring and seeing what everyone else is doing. Like, we post our wins, we celebrate the small wins, and I've started to do that with my athletes and in my business as well, like celebrating these small wins. And it really builds, like you said, it snowballs. And I think that the best thing is really, like you always say to push yourself out of your comfort zone because that is where all the good stuff lies. And that's very true. I mean, the scariest thing that I've done so far in the business school was probably the expo that we had.

Which you rocked, by the way.

Oh, thank you. Yeah. Dr. Una had featured many of us in the business school and we had to do a talk about our business and give our number one business tip. And that was really the first time that I did some speaking about my business. That was not a video for my athletes or anything like that. Like, it was really.

Was that the first time?

Yeah.

Oh, wow.

Yeah. I've not. Not been on a stage, so that was my first stage, really. And that was very scary to think about that going into it. But then once we were past it, it was again like. It was like I crossed the marathon finish line again. Like I can do anything.

Oh, I love it. I love that.

Yeah. So that was probably the scariest thing. But I think really the community is wonderful and everyone is all about collaboration and networking, which has been wonderful too. So it's one idea will spark something else. And I keep my journal and I write down all of these things, but I'm much, much better at asking. I'm more confident, I'm asking. Things in the business are going much, much better. And I feel like I have direction finally, which has been wonderful.

I love it. And for you, I think we were Facebook friends for a while before you came into the business school. And I'm happy that you're embracing all of this because I really love what you do because you take care of my pain point. You know that. And so I really love that you're doing that. I'm glad that you're getting better results in your business. You're getting comfortable doing this and feeling like you belong. You know what I mean? Like, so. So this is really good. What would you say to the person who's like, I don't know about business school? I mean, I want to do business, but I don't know about that. You know, maybe I need one on one. Maybe I won't get what I need in the group, or maybe they're all out there, big and bad, doing great things and I won't fit. Maybe I don't belong. What would you say to that, doctor?

Yeah, I would say you definitely belong. And it doesn't matter what stage of business you are in. So this is the same for my runners. It doesn't matter if you are on the couch or if you run multiple marathons. We start from where you are with your current fitness and your current mindset. And the same thing in the business school. We start wherever you are. And even if that means you don't necessarily have a business idea yet, there is a framework from which we all operate and figure out what stage we're in so that you have a Clear plan. Clear training plan, if you will, to go forward.

Training plan, yes.

And so I think it doesn't matter what stage of business. And there are people all the way at the beginning of their business, and there are experienced entrepreneurs who are serial entrepreneurs who have multiple businesses, and there's everyone in between. There are people with opening their own practices, there are coaches, there are people who have products that they've developed. And it's so interesting because I learn from everyone, not just the other coaches in the group. And I can take ideas from the people opening their own practices and the people with the products. And it just. Everybody is sort of like feeding off of everybody's ideas. It's really amazing. So just do it.

If you're on the fence, Nike style, get off the fence. Just do it.

Yes.

Now, I find it interesting, right, because I learned this and I don't know who I learned it from. I probably have to go figure it out. That sometimes innovation is not coming up with new things. It is taking something that is applied to one industry and transporting it to your own industry, right? So sometimes people are like, well, but I'm different. I'm a coach, I'm different. I'm private practice. And I'm like, no, you can learn something from somebody in private practice that is genius in your industry because nobody's doing it that way. But it's a workable model. You know what I mean? Or somebody who's. We have someone who's developing an app and, you know, she's starting her process, and you can take stuff from that and apply it to what you do as a run coach. I mean, you get. You get access to so many different ideas, so many different ways of thinking, which is huge. And like, residency, it's also nice to have people in different stages, right? Because, you know, sometimes the person who's new and is all in and putting all the effort is your reminder as a more established entrepreneur that you're in cruise control. Like, you're actually slacking. You know what I mean? Their zeal holds you accountable because, you know, or maybe you've done something and really it's not too huge of a thing, but you start feeling like, I'm all that and I'm going to cruise. And then you look over there and that's the serial entrepreneur doing it like they mean it. And that's your. Like, yeah, so I'm slacking here. I need to fix this. You know what I'm saying? So it's great to have all kinds of different people with all Kinds of different experiences. And even I get inspired by the group. And, you know, we celebrate wins because that's one of the ways we build mental toughness. But I get so inspired when I look at all the things people are doing. I'm like, that's interesting. I wouldn't have thought about that. You know what I'm saying? So. So that's so good. All right, so listen to Dr. Michelle. If you're a doctor, if you're a doctor and you've ever thought about business or you are in business and it's not going the way you want or you feel like you don't belong, there's actually a place where you belong. And that's the entremd business school. So we'd love for you to come join us. It's entremd.com business and you get to see the likes of Dr. Michelle, who is very active in the group and very encouraging and even did a talk in the group on managing negative self talk when we started working on the challenge. So it's a great place to be. Great place to be. All right, so let's say someone is listening and they're like, listen, just tell me where I can find Dr. Michelle because I want to run.

Okay.

Where do people find you?

The best place would be on my website, which is mindful marathon.com. and like I said, if you're on the couch or you are walking a little bit, there is a free training plan that you can download over there that will get you started. And there's tons of great information for beginners or forerunners who haven't run in a long time on my blog, which you can reach from there as well.

Yay. Now, so let's put this in perspective because I've heard about some of your clients, right. Share one of your clients stories, right? Some win that they had because it blows me away. So pick one. Just so people get a better feel for what you do.

Okay, I think I'm going to pick a doctor client of mine who finished her residency this summer and in the middle of the pandemic started running and finished her first 5k in the fall and is still running. Now she's working on the 10K. And then a couple of weeks ago, she told me I did a thing. I signed up for this half marathon. And so this is what it's all about. Not that everyone has to go out and run these long races, but just to show yourself like, hey, I can do this. And I never thought I would be able to. And in the midst of a crazy schedule, a pandemic, and all of this stuff, creating, really creating lemonade out of lemons. So I'm so proud of her. And, I mean, if we can travel again, I really want to go run the half marathon with her. But we'll see.

You know, I'm glad you shared this story. And there's something that's happened to me that I want to share, which is sometimes taking up a race and finishing it is the best thing you can do for your whole life, Right? It's the same thing with business. Like, you finally starting that business. You cracking your first six figures is not about the six figures. It's not about the race. I'll let you speak to that if you're not making this up or not. But it's who you have to become to pull that off, right? Because once you finish a half marathon when you thought you couldn't run at all, then your brain starts going like, wait a minute, what else can I do? That means all these things I thought that I can't do, maybe they're lies. And it's the same thing with business. You. You finally, you know, like, I'm not an entrepreneur. I don't belong. I don't think I can do this. Or you have a business and you're not really helping many people, and it's not making money, and you're like, well, you know, I'm a doctor. I'm not an entrepreneur, so I can't do this stuff. You hit your first six figures, all kinds of things go off. Like, it's like a lid is shattered, and you're like, wait a minute. Look, look, look. Nice blue skies. There's so much more out here. And so for your doctor clients, I wonder what the ripple effect of doing that one thing is in her life. I really do.

Me too. I can't wait to see.

That is so good. All right, mindful, go find Dr. Michelle, and on there you'll see all her social media handles. You can follow her as well. I'll post those in the show notes as well. Dr. Michelle, thank you so much for coming on here and sharing some strategies to, you know, kind of get this negative self talk out of our way so we can do what we need to do. Do you have any final words for the listeners?

You know? Well, thank you for having me, Dr. Una. It was wonderful, as I knew it would be. And I think for everybody listening, whether it's running or business, the key is to tie your sneakers on and get started. You can start small, but just get started.

You can start small, but just get started. All right, you all heard the woman. Thank you so much for coming on. This was super helpful. And if you're listening and you found this helpful, I want you to take a screenshot of this episode, wherever you're watching on, and I want you to post it on social media, share your biggest tip, and then tag us. So Entre MD and you can tag Michelle Clerk and we will look out for it and give you a shout out as well. Okay? All right, so thank you so much for listening and I'll see you on the very next episode of the EntreMD podcast. Hey, if you love listening to the Entrepreneurs MD podcast, I want to invite you to join Entre MD on demand. It is my signature subscription program that gives you access to a library of business courses designed to help you do one thing as a physician entrepreneur, and that is to thrive. Just head out to entre md.com forward/ondemand, and I love to have you join us. See you on the inside.