How to sleep your way to a better business With Dr. Funke Afolabi-Brown

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Hi, docs. Welcome to the Entre MD Podcast where it's all about helping amazing physicians just like you, embrace entrepreneurship so you can have the freedom to live life and practice medicine on your terms. I'm your host, Dr. Imna. Well, hello. Hello everybody. Welcome back to another amazing episode of the entremd podcast. And today we're going to talk about something we've never talked about before, and it's sleep. And the reason why we're going to talk about that is because I heard Jeff Bezos. Okay, so Jeff Bezos is only the founder of a trillion dollar company, right? And he says every day my job as a senior executive is to make a few key decisions. So one of the best things I do for my company is I get good sleep. I get eight hours of sleep so that I put myself in the best position to make those few decisions. I was like, mind blown. So sleep is a winning strategy for business. Okay, so this is why we're talking about sleep today. And I have the amazing Dr. Funke. Afolibi Brown is a sleep medicine doctor out of Philadelphia and she is going to give us all the things. So welcome to the show, Dr. Funke.

Thank you. Thank you so much, Dr. Una. I'm so excited. Thanks for inviting me.

Yeah, absolutely. This is your zone of genius and I want to hear all about it. So I didn't tell you this, but this is not an area where I'm excelling. All right? So this episode is for me as much as it is for everybody else who's listening. So FYI, all right. You're saving a life here. All right? So I want you to take a minute and introduce yourself to the audience, who you are, what you do, stuff like that.

Yeah, sure. So thank you again. I'll start by saying this morning when I was dropping my kids off at school, you know, I said, I have a podcast today, and my daughter's like, with who is it that famous doctor you always listen to? So there we go. Oh, my goodness. There you go. You're making an impression, Dr. Ona.

Okay. On the Next Generation. So this is powerful. All right.

Yes, you are. Yes, you are. So. Yes. My name is Bunker Folabi Brown. I'm a pediatric pulmonologist and a sleep physician. Currently, I work in an academic institution where I care for children with all kinds of pulmonary related problems, as well as sleep disorders, both behavioral sleep problems and medical sleep problems. And I realized that a lot of people really don't know what goes on with sleep, which it ends up you're spending a third of your day doing. And so one of the things that I've been so passionate about is educating people about the importance of sleep.

I love it. And I think I've. I've seen a number of your. Your posts on social media. You talk about it all the time. So I think I saw one two days ago. I was like, you know what? I just need to. I need to bring this woman on the podcast. I just need to. So let's get into it. Right? So what is the importance of sleep? Right. We do this every day. I don't think too much about it. Right. But you're talking to a group of entrepreneurs, physicians, who are out there trying to make a difference and, you know, do all these things. So why should that person stop and think about sleep and pay attention to sleep?

Yeah, thanks. So exactly. Sleep is a biological requirement. We all do it. We're not necessarily sure why we do it, but we all do. I would say every organism sleeps, right? Even from the zebrafish. There's been experiments done on the fruit fly all the way to all breeds of animals and humans. I think the humans, though, are the ones that tend to try to cheat on sleep as much as possible. And like I said before, you're spending a third of your day. Think about it. A third of your life, if you're doing it right, sleeping. And so if you really want to optimize that two thirds, which is the rest of the time, you have to be a brilliant entrepreneur, you probably should focus on that one third as well and try to prioritize it. And so one sleep is important for rest. And I think that's one of the reasons that most people are aware of. It's really critical for restoration as well. So what happens is that from the moment you wake up in the morning, you start to build up a substance called adenosine in your body. And then that just builds up all the way till the nighttime when you fall asleep. And then adenosine and other toxins actually start to be released when you sleep. So really important for restoration. And depending on the stage of sleep, you have light sleep and then deep sleep. So non REM sleep and REM sleep. And during non REM sleep, there's a lot of regeneration going on, there's a lot of repair, restoration of tissue function, improvements in immune function goes on in non REM sleep. And in REM sleep, you talk about memory consolidation. You have improvements in neural connections, which helps with decision making and, and also mood regulation as well.

So that's like everything very important. Okay, so I like the statement you made. If you want to optimize the two thirds of the day when you're awake, you should focus on the 1/3 when you're supposed to be asleep. That is so good. Now this just remind. Just, just makes me realize that we could make this whole episode just about why you should sleep, right? Because if when I sleep is when I get rid of all these toxins, then that means I need to think of sleep as a powerful tool for detoxification, right? If I think about memory consolidation, so here I am doing all the courses, all the reading, all of that, but if I'm not sleeping, I'm not giving all that work the opportunity to become concrete, right? And I mean, like, wow, that's. That's hashtag just sleep.

It is hashtag the sleep. Okay, you got it.

Oh, my goodness. All right, so for an entrepreneur, for a physician, right, One of the most important things we do is we make decisions. And so sleep is one of those things we just have to. We just have to do. And if you're also talking about your immune system and all of this, we only get one earth suit, right? Our body. Our bodies are earth suit. We get one. And so if we abuse it, even if it's in the name of a worthy cause, we have to leave. You know, And I, I plan to be on this planet as, as long as I need To. To do all I need to do. So. Okay, we're listening. I'm listening. And I'm sure my listeners are listening, going like, okay, okay. But I don't. I'm sure I'm not doing the sleep thing, right? So let's talk about it, right? So first of all, how much sleep should we be getting? Now, bear in mind, you are talking to physician entrepreneurs, right? There must be some exception for us, but.

No, I'm sorry, no exception.

Okay, how much sleep should we be getting?

Well, you. You should be getting. Every adult should be getting anywhere from seven to nine hours of slee. So I see a lot of people try to skimp on six hours, and I feel like you may be able to get by, but there's a limit. Eventually it does catch up. And another thing that people try to do is bank sleep and say, okay, you know what? I'll have this period of time, and I'll just, like, burn the candle on both ends, and then I'll try to catch up. You really can't catch up enough going that route. So the ideal is at least seven hours of sleep.

Okay, so I just remembered something. When you started talking about this, Brian Tracy, who is, you know, one of the godfathers of personal development, he had a workshop that he did for executives, and one of the things he had them do was commit to 90 days of 8 hours of sleep.

That's awesome.

Like, imagine paying money for a course, and they tell you, well, now you have to sleep, right?

That is awesome.

90 days. And he talks about how so many people come back and go, like, I did not realize I was walking around in a fog. I did not realize how, like, I was in a drunken state almost, you know, all right, so seven to nine hours, you know, right there in the middle is eight hours. Okay? So I'm thinking, I don't do eight hours every night, right? So what are some of the things I can do to start making that transition? Right? If I may be honest, talking to thousands of people listening, I probably do six. And that's a good day for me, right? So now I'm like, okay, you know, I want to do this, right? I want to put myself in a better position to make better decisions, to be healthier, to maximize what I can do, maximize my learning, all of that. What do I need to do to start transitioning to eight hours?

Well, the first thing I'll say is, give yourself grace.

I love it.

And acknowledge that there's room for improvement. Honestly, I think 6 is a good place to start. I would say just try to increase it gradually because if you're sleeping six hours now and then you try to stay in bed for eight hours, it's just going to be frustrating. And so the idea is starting off where you are, and even if it's additional 15 minutes you want to start off with and slowly start to extend your sleep, I think that would be the best bet. So give yourself six hours and 15 minutes. And I think if you. The idea is not that you must sleep eight hours, the idea is being true to yourself and asking yourself, when you wake up, how do I really feel? So some people sleep about seven, I sleep about seven, and I wake up feeling really refreshed. My alarm clock is set, but I never wake up to an alarm clock. So it's how you feel. And how you feel over time will really let you know how you're starting to feel during the day will let you know, okay, you know what, I'm skimping on sleep. So I would say at least start, aim for 7, and then see where you are at 7 if you still feel, okay, I need to go up more, then you could do that. But it's not like a hard and fast rule. It's just a general, like a ballpark.

I love it. You're letting us give ourselves.

Great.

Well, I love that you're not letting us go on a guilt trip, right? No, like, oh, I messed all this up. What you're saying is, fine, wherever you are, great. Start from there and then start increasing. All right, so give us tips, Doc. What do we do? What do we do for sleep hygiene? What are the things we're doing that are messing up our sleep habits and stuff like that?

Yes, yes. So, yeah, basic sleep hygiene, I would say, the one I would start with. Key is regularity and consistency. You just have to be consistent. No matter. Even if you are six hours, set a bed time, a specific bedtime, and a specific wake time. Just start with that. And you should avoid letting that vary too much on the weekends because most people then, like, up till midnight. And it's what you call social jet lag. Especially I see that in, you know, a lot of teenagers where, you know, they're sleeping, they're not falling asleep till 1am on Friday night and Saturday night and then Sunday, they're coming back to the East Coast. That's really what it is. And that's how I explain they're coming back to the east coast social network.

I've never heard that before.

And so imagine what that is doing to Your circadian rhythm, what that is doing to your body functions and hormones and things like that. So be as consistent as possible. Sure. There might be movie nights on Friday, maybe one max, two hours. You know, I think that will really be important. I would say there are like five things, again, in addition to consistency, other things that I would say is find a bedtime routine that works for you, something relaxing. So set a time after which you promise yourself you're not going to be picking up or sending that email. I think that's helpful because it also helps you create boundaries and really lets you say, these are the margins. This is the time for me to rest and feel refreshed and restored.

So.

So whatever that routine is, whether it's nothing complicated, nothing sophisticated, whether it's like a bath, a bath is really good. A warm bath is nice because what that does is it really, you know, you may feel warm, but it helps you then release heat from your body. And a cool body temperature is optimal for sleep. So that's the second thing. So you find that routine. You can take a bath, maybe do some meditation, read a book under a very dim light, and then go to sleep, just release something relaxing. So that's the second point. The next one I would say is, again, the electronics. I feel like that just kind of spans all the hygiene recommendations. Because if you're on your device, it's not just the fact that the blue light, which many of us know of what the blue light does, is it tricks our brain. Our brains in the evening, because of our circadian rhythm, releases melatonin. And melatonin is a sleep hormone in the setting of dim lights or the dark is when it's called the dark hormone melatonin. So if you have blue light, that melatonin secretion is suppressed and that pushes your sleep off. So that's one thing. So the blue light from your device doesn't let you fall asleep quickly. And then the arousal you get from aggravating email or text or something kind of creates this feeling of stress, which also affects your sleep. So really several reasons for you not to. Some people listen to, like, maybe some mindfulness and things like that on their phones, which is okay. You just want to make sure you use the dim light settings as much as possible. And so I think that's really important. And then something else I would say is limiting caffeine. People do not realize that, you know, root bear iced tea in the evening with dinner seems really nice, but really not good for sleep because what caffeine does is that Even though it blocks that, it blocks that adenosine your body produces, it really creates a state of, of alertness that really will affect your sleep. And alcohol as well. You want to limit alcohol as well. And then the last one, I'm not sure how many have said, there's so many good ones, but I think these are some basic ones that I think people need to just work on, is that if you're not able to fall asleep, don't get into bed. The bed should be just for sleep and intimacy. So fine, I've said now you need to increase your total sleep time. You may now get into bed and be like, oh, gosh, now I have to get into bed at, I don't know, 8pm and your mind is racing, you're stressed, you're talking, turning, you're frustrated about all that awesome stuff you should be doing. That's not the key. If you set the routine in place, you start to feel sleepy, you get into bed. If you notice that you've been in bed for maybe 20 minutes or so and you're like, I can't seem to sleep. Just get out of bed and do something boring. Do something boring until you're sleepy. So don't get out of bed and go on your devices. Get out of bed and find lights.

Don't get on Facebook.

No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. Don't do that. So you really, you really want to try to spend the time you're in bed asleep?

So I shouldn't have a TV in my room?

That's, that should facing my bed? No, you should not. Unless it's just like a decoration. If you want to hang something on top of it, that's fine. But those TVs, they should, they should not be in the room at all.

So I'm sure you get a lot about social media and sleep, right? Because social media is like, I mean, the average American picks up their phone, what, 145 times a day? It's a thing. What are some of those strategies you give people to kind of stay away from letting social media be the reason why they don't sleep or letting the text messages be the reason why they don't sleep?

I think again, it's the importance, an understanding of what it does. Because I have people saying, yeah, but I use the, you know, the dim lights on my phone, I use that function. It's not just the light piece. It's that extra hyper, that state of hyper arousal that it does. And it's so like, you know, it's so subtle sometimes, but it does. It's in your subconscious. So what I recommend typically just set a time when this is it, this is when it ends. You know, some people, like myself, I deleted the app from my phone, so if I want to go, I have to literally type it in or use my laptop or something, which means it's not coming into the room as much as possible. And then maybe instead of just going on randomly, really setting a time and saying, maybe somewhere around lunch, I'll check in. What's going on somewhere after, Maybe just after dinner, before my bedtime routine starts, I'll check in again. But I think if you give yourself that, okay, I have set time, it really helps as well. That's some strategies, but I hear you. It's hard, but you're doing it.

I love it. You're our inspiration. Okay, so I know somebody's listening. And when you said consistency, they're like, I work shift work, so there's nothing like consistency. Right. What would you tell that doctor?

So it's a hard one. I mean, it's. We do need shift workers, right, in the er, you know, nocturnists and things like that. I think the important thing is they're two separate entities. There's shift work and there's shift work disorder. And so shift work in and of itself, I think about 20% of the workforce are shift workers. But the shift work disorder is somewhere around 3% or so. It's not really been well studied as well, because people, it's, you know, it's cycles and things like that. If you have shift work disorder, then you probably should get that addressed. And what that entails is when you are unable to sleep, when you are not able to stay awake during your shift, and you are unable to sleep when you're supposed to be sleeping. And this is going on for about three months, and it's really impacting your health, then that's a real different entity. That's shift work disorder. I think for those who have shift work, there are things that can be done to optimize or at least optimize your sleep. One again is the regularity and consistency of trying to get that seven hours of sleep. You should aim for it. Although studies have shown that about. I would say most shift workers tend to sleep anywhere from 30 minutes to about three or four hours less than the general population. And I think the reason why that tends to happen is they're done with the shift and all of a sudden it's time to do groceries. It's Time to do accomplish all sorts of things. It's time to take care of things at home. You really need to sleep when you're done with your shift. And really recommendation is that you should be going to sleep about at latest two hours after your shift ends. And the way you're going to do that because now you're done with your shift, it's bright outside. And remember melatonin secretion is in the dark. So you need to get a good pair of sunglasses, really dark shades, so that when you get home as much as possible you're going into a very dark room, cool room, really trying to replicate that night environment as much as possible. Have family members do not disturb signs. Really try to emphasize on that and get to sleep as much as possible. Something else that can help would be just before you're asleep taking a nap, even if it's a 30 minute nap, that really helps improve function during the shift. Caffeine and now I'm just kind of talking about what to do during the shift. So taking maybe a little bit of caffeine at the beginning of the shift and exposing yourself to bright light so you can be as optimal as possible. Because again, you're completely misaligned from your circadian system. Right. Your body is saying sleep and then all the social cues are saying work. So you want to optimize yourself when you're at work. And then towards the end of the shift is when you really start to wind down again. And so again it's again that cool dark room limiting noise. Electronics get good. Either noise canceling headphones or AirPods or something just to really keep the room quiet. And sometimes you may need to take melatonin, exogenous melatonin to help as well. But yeah, those are the main recommendations. Another thing I would say, if your shift is rotating then you may want to say, you may want to ask for a clockwise rotation. So if you're doing sort of morning shift, don't go from morning to night, back to night and all over the place. So maybe morning shift and then sort of more afternoon, evening shifts and then night shift. So that really helps your body adjust a little bit better.

Okay. Oh, that is so good. That's really good. And so the regularity would be more so when I'm not working, I take the time to sleep. When I'm working, I work. Right. Like more so than a specific time of the day.

Exactly, exactly.

That's powerful. Okay.

And when you're, I would say that when, when you're aiming for the seven hours it may not be the whole seven hour stretch, but that's where trying to get maybe a little nap before the shift. So you can sort of add that up. It all will take that too.

Okay. Okay guys, we can do some addition here. All right, that works. Now I know that someone is listening who's like me, you know, from five years ago. So you, you know, physician, you know, working has a baby, right. So and babies do not care about our need for sleep. Right. They just know they want to be fed or they want their diaper changed or whatever. So in that time, that season, what can the moms do to optimize their sleep?

Yeah, so I would say the first thing is it does not Last Forever Like Dr. Ona, it actually comes to an end. It's seems like it comes to an end, people, there's hope, you know, so, so I think the important thing is getting that sleep when you can. So what, what thing that happens is when the baby is sleeping, you should try to get your sleep. So your sleep in that case is sort of more fragmented, but you'll just have to make do another thing that can help. So instead of, oh, the baby is napping, let me do laundry, let me do some errands, just leave it and just take that nap when you can. And then for the nighttime, especially with moms who either nurse and the baby's waking up, you know, on cue for feeds, is to try to enroll people around your house, your spouse, if you have help to help you with the feeding. So if you're able to pump and have them do one feed and you know, pump, give them the bottle and then you at least get to sleep. A longer stretch I think is important. Another thing that I feel helps a lot is seeking bright light. So in the morning, going out on walks, exercise with the baby, a nice long walk is really good one. It's good for mood because sleep deprivation impacts and can worsen postpartum depression. So that's definitely something you want to just take care of. So really sleeping when you can, asking for help and just letting it, you don't have it doesn't all have to be perfect during that time. I would say that's it.

Effy, I love it and I love the balance you bring to it. Right? So one, it's not going to last forever. It doesn't have to be perfect. Get some help sleep when the baby sleeps, like that's just so good as opposed to figure it out and get seven hours. So guys, you guys see that? Dr. Funka is amazing. You should be following her. You should be reading what she posts on social media during the day. Okay. Not at night when you should be sleeping. Don't read her posts on sleep when you should be sleeping. Thank you so much for doing this. I have, like, I have a lot of nuggets that I'm going to be applying and then once I start hitting it better, I'll let you know, like, hey, look, look what happened. But this is so good. Thank you. Where can people find you? Like, they're like, wow, I don't want this conversation to end. Where do they find you?

I'm on Instagram and Facebook. My Instagram handle is Funke A. Brown. And then on Facebook it's funkelabibrown. And then I also started a blog where I talk about some inspirational stuff just to really help women. And also I talk about sleep as well. It's called radiatebrilliance.com so you could find me there as well.

Awesome. And we will add all the links to the show notes. This is amazing. I feel like we could have literally made five episodes out of this episode. It is so good so far for everyone listening. This is one that you should come back to because you're going to take 1, 2, 3, 4 things and apply them and you're going to come back and you're going to say, oh, wow, so I can tag on number five and six and. And stuff like this. This is one to return to. This is not about, you know, five ways to get more clients, but this is about five ways to get more clients, right? Because this is important. And we want you to thrive as an entrepreneur, as a physician, but we also want you to be the best version of yourself. Hard to do it when you're not engaging the process for rest, for restoration, for regeneration, to improve your immune system, improve your making your memories concrete and all of that. So this is a powerful one to come Back to. So, Dr. Funke, thank you so much for coming and for sharing your expertise with us. This is so helpful. Thank you so much.

Thanks so much, Dr. Una.

It's.

I've had a blast so far. Thank you.

All right, people, so listen, take this episode. One of the things you can do to make your memory concrete is teaching what you learned. So I want you to take a screenshot of this episode. I want you to post it on social media, say what you're going to do to fix your sleep, and let the doctors know in your life they have to listen to this episode. And I will see you on the next episode of the EntreMD podcast. Hey, if you love listening to the Entre MD podcast, I want to invite you to join Entre MD on demand. It is my signature subscription program that gives you access to a library of business courses designed to help you do one thing as a physician entrepreneur, and that is to thrive. Just head out to entremd.com forward/ondemand and I love to have you join us. See you on the inside.