Finance is storytelling. Leadership is perspective. Growth requires courage with Joe Hamrahi

You're listening to One Sharp Sword, cutting through to what matters most with Outfluencer, Dr. Wayne Purnell. Welcome to One Sharp Sword, cutting through to what matters most. I'm your host, guide, and coach on this journey, Dr. P. Dr. Wayne Purnell. Today, I am joined by Joe Humrachy, a fractional CFO and founder of FinStrat CFO. Joe's background includes experience in mergers and acquisitions, executive finance leadership, and even a stint in baseball scouting. Today, we'll explore the lessons he learned from his immigrant father. Know your numbers, and stay adaptable. Joe embodies those lessons and brings forth financial rigor and lived perspective to, uh, to the conversation about growth, resilience, and building businesses that last. Welcome, Joe Humrahi.

Well, thank you, Dr. Wayne. I decided that's what I'm going to call you because she said it was okay.

Yeah, I go, I go by pretty much everything, but Dr. Purnell always sounds so normal to me. Yeah, Dr. Wayne, Dr. P, whatever you'd like, it's all good.

No, thanks for having me. I'm excited to be here today. Um, we had a really good conversation a few weeks ago, and I was looking forward to this, uh, for some time now. Thank you.

Yeah, no, I've been looking forward to it as well. It's, it's amazing. Your background is pretty incredible. Um, you've, you've done a ton of things. You didn't wake up one day though and go, I'm gonna be a fractional CFO and I'm gonna start my own company. So I want to talk about your journey because when we spoke and I, you know, I take the time to meet with my guests ahead of time so that there's a vibe and a flow that happens when I do that and it's great. So you were You were in various finance roles, you were in communications for a while, you blended all that together, you became a scout, and then the fractional piece started. So can we talk a little bit about that journey for you? What happened? What was it like? What led you to what you're doing? And do you Do you love what you're doing?

So I'll start with the last part. I actually really do love what I'm doing right now. Um, I was on a call earlier, right before this, honestly, somebody who is trying to sell me something, and it actually turned into a really great conversation. Um, I really believe in relationships and, um, you know, relationships, genuine relationships, because I think the most genuine relationships turn into such more fruitful endeavors with people. But to go back, so I answered your last question first, but to go back, um, I think that, you know, I started out like every other, not every other kid, a lot of other kids. I, I had this structure. I did really well in high school. I finished in top 10 in my class of 700. Um, I had this big plan. I'm gonna go into business. I'm gonna become an accountant. And then I went to college and I hated accounting, hated it. But it was one of those things that my dad, which we'll talk about, I'm sure more about, was like, you know, he was a math whiz. He, you know, but he came to this country and he didn't really have the opportunity to use it in the way that, you know, he had hoped he could. So that was a big deal for him. He wanted my brother and I to go to college. Education was non-negotiable. So what happened was I went to college my first freshman year of college. I went to Pace University in downtown Manhattan. And I just really hated accounting and I transferred to Binghamton. I went through every single major, I think. I went through math, English, and I settled on economics. But of course, I settled on economics at a time where you keep coming out of college was like, you can't really get a job in economics. It was either investment banking. It was like, wasn't the greatest economy. Anyway, I decided, wait a minute, my dad has an idea here and he's probably right. So I went more practical.. And I talked to a lot of people, went back into accounting, got my MBA at Baruch, went on to become a CPA. And then I realized there's a lot more to accounting than just, you know, Accounting 101, Accounting 102. And it's really about building business and telling stories. And I was really fortunate after I went through the public accounting route, got into corporate finance, became my first— first time I became a CFO, I was 31 years old and a company that I loved. In the technology sector, moved on to communications and PR where I've been since then. And then more recently, I decided after a 23, 25-year career in PR and communications that I want to try something different. Like, that's been the story of my life. I've adapted and changed. Plus, I'm 56 years old now. If I don't do this now, when the heck am I going to do it? And I think we've all learned a lot from these last 25 years. I was having this conversation, another conversation with somebody about unprecedented events. We've lived through a whole bunch of unprecedented events. But this was the time and the place for it. And I made the leap and I'm thrilled that I did.

So you leapt from communications and PR into being the fractional CFO and running your own biz.

Yeah. And I will tell you this, so I didn't really leave the communications PR business. So the vast majority of the client, my client portfolio now is in that PR communications and digital advertising niche. I have a few that are not, but I've, you know, we, it's again about relationships. We built these relationships over the last 20 years. We all know each other. And part of the impetus for doing this was that, you know, people from agencies came to me and said, look, we saw what you did at Embuuf. We've seen what you're doing at Highwire. You know, how can we tap into some of your knowledge or experience of that? And it's really tough to do that. Like, I tried to help some people, but it's really tough to do that when you're working in an agency, um, because you're competing with them to begin with, but it just doesn't feel particularly great. Um, so I took that leap. I did it. Fortunately, like I said, I had a few clients that came with me that were, or wanted to come with me, that were talking to me already. And it's now started to grow a little bit momentum. And I'm happy to say that, like, I'm thrilled with what I'm doing. I work all the time, which I gotta figure out a little bit, but I think every entrepreneur does that in the beginning, whatever age it is that you start. So right now for me, that's now, but I'm loving every minute of it. These relationships who are so— are even our relationship here is so much more. These are happening so much more frequently for me, and that's rewarding part for me right now.

That's awesome. I had a few questions about the things you said and I wanted to jump back in and have you talk about, you said two things that really struck me. One is I believe in genuine relationships. And so I'm a huge fan of relationships and relationship being relational in business versus transactional. Yeah. So I would love to have you talk about that. And then you said something that made me sort of internally at least do a Scooby-Doo, like, you said, well, I found out that accounting was about telling stories. And I never thought of it that way. But it really is. It really is. So can you talk about both of those, the, the idea that Um, there's relationships and then there are genuine relationships. And that— and that how you found out that accounting was about telling stories, I, I really want to dive into that.

Sure. I think the, the relationship part, I realized, and it's from a lot of experience, and I think we all go through this, is that so much of what we do— and even today, I mean, I probably think more so today than before— is that it's so transactional. I mean, while I'm all over LinkedIn and I'm doing my thing and I'm, you know, building my brand, so much of what we feel there is so transactional. I'm posting so you could connect with me so that we could have a, you know, a business deal on the other side. And I think that what I've learned from this is that, yeah, I have that kind of outreach and all stuff, is that over the years, the most— both from a business aspect and from a more of a nourishment aspect. The relationships that are genuine, that like you just have a conversation and they lead into actual— you could do the business that comes from that is so much more fruitful and genuine than just like, I'm going to sell you this, I'm going to buy this from you. And for me, that's— I thrive in that. Like, I just— I had again the same person who was trying to sell me something before we wound up having this conversation that became like we just enjoyed talking, talking to each other and we didn't sell, buy or sell from each other. But I know now that it was so genuine that like, and he's, by the way, half my age, like he's my son's age, but it was just such a really fruitful conversation. And I think those are the ones that lead into what will really be meaningful down the line. And I would much rather buy something from that he's selling from someone who just doesn't get to either know me or I don't get to know them. So that's kind of what I'm talking about. And I think in the world that moves 100 miles an hour and information is instantaneous, we don't get to know each other well enough anymore.

You know, that's, that's so powerful. That's— no, I think that's true. And it is, you know, I— you and I had a conversation a few weeks back, and that's the reason, right? Yeah, I know that we can actually have a conversation before I bring you onto a podcast or before You know, we talk about anything else, like who are you and do you care about who I am? And, you know, there's a sense of, is it me, me, me, or, you know, is it buy my stuff? And, you know, there are hundreds of people that I've chosen not to have on the podcast, and it's the way they show up, you know? So you're showing up as a genuine human with, you know, with depth.

And I appreciate that. No, and I think the other part, just if I could add one more thing to this, is that there, it also opens up like your own eyes to things that you may not have seen. So what I have learned in this little short time that I've been out as an entrepreneur now is that I am, I've kept an open mind to meeting and just enjoying people's stories and they naturally take on a life of its own. Like, I've actually made new friends through this, like, where we've gotten together, and, um, which I never thought. And then there's a couple of other weird things that I never expected, like actual business endeavors that, that are nowhere near the finance function, like entirely outside this realm. But I think it's just being open-minded to what people are genuinely, and that to me has really led to a much better appreciation of business, of life, of where I am. And it only took me 56 years to get there. But, you know, it's like, and that's where I am.

I think— I actually love that. I think, you know, there's something magical that happens when you enter the decade of the '50s. And it's sort of the, you know, I kind of care less about impressing people. Yeah, exactly. And now, like, I can let go of all the who I'm supposed to be for someone else. And you just find yourself in a very different space. And it's really, um, you know, for our, our viewers, listeners that are younger than the 50s, it's sort of the get there now, like let go of what other people think. And for those that are in the 50s and beyond, um, you know, leverage that, like, exactly do that, right?

At the end of the day, it's for— I mean, it's the people that are close to you. And I think that you know, it's, you know, the same cliché quote that we hear all the time, like 100 years from now, no one will— you'll be past the generations. And unless you're, you know, Abraham Lincoln, you know, the vast majority of us won't remem— no one will remember us. And I think the key is to live your life. And I— you're right about the '50s. I think I've taken an entirely different appreciation of life at this point in my life.

It's amazing. Yeah, it's great. I, uh, you know, it's one of those things you were talking and I'm like, yeah, I could see us, right, hanging out. Yeah, exactly. You and I, right? We met, we met virtually. Um, I could see us hanging out and, and, um, you know, everything from grabbing a, a bite together to doing business together. And it's just, that's how it works.

It's so good. Yeah, it's really important. And I wanna answer your other question too about, um, please. Yeah. So I will tell you that I think that it took a long time. This isn't even just a Joe thing. I think it's a shift in how the finance function has evolved in the world. And I would say that's probably over the last 15 years in particular. When we are all trained as accountants, you know, you go in there, you— it's all about compliance, making sure the books are in order, making sure you have the right reports, making sure your tax returns are filed. It's all about that. Somewhere along the line, which is a really important part of what my track was, and I was lucky to get this earlier on— and probably when I said earlier on, for me this is 25 years ago— what I became, and I— what much of what I have done has been operational finance. So it's really about how we can build the function of finance to support the business operation. I still tell this to my teams today, and I'll backtrack in a second. But what I'm telling them is we're in service of the business. So don't think about it as we have to check the box, we have to finish the month-end close, we have to submit the financial reports. First of all, they don't always have to be perfect. It's directionally close, but it's what the numbers tell us that help us have the teams run the business. That's what it's about. Like, it's the business we're in service of. It's not that we're doing this because we want to just like, we love financial reporting and we'd love to tell you what GAAP means because none of us really like that. It's really about what it is. And by the way, some of us do like to do check tasks. That does happen. And there's something rewarding in that. But really, the more interesting part of this business, of this profession, is being able to say, all right, this what happened here. Why did it happen? So what? And then now what? And I think that the people who have really had, are starting to have, or had good careers in this and starting to have good careers in this, are able to ask those questions. And, and, you know, to my, for my PE friends who really ingrained this in me, like, look around the corners. What is it telling us about where the business goes? Because if we can start to predict things in advance or just get a sense of them which is what the best CFOs do, that's really important. But the other part of this is you have to, you have to actually take those numbers and translate them for people who are not CFOs, who are not financial executives, who have no idea what EBITDA means, or, you know, all those kinds of things, and, and then put it into language. So I, and I see I do this a lot of mine, you may have seen this way too, in my in my LinkedIn stuff, I do a lot of storytelling, but I also do it with metaphors and analogies. I talk— people think I'm crazy now that I'm in Florida. I talk about slow and steady like manatees because they live forever and, you know, they didn't have to grow like 100% every year, but they maintain, you know, a formidable path and they know what they're doing. So, and people love that and they think it's about getting across how we can operationalize the people to grow the business.

All right, so this is— that's so good. And I, uh, I want to come back to the manatee thing, but, uh, but first I want to do a few things. Um, I'm referring to my notes here because what you said, you've dropped a ton of beautiful information. Um, I want to go back, uh, I'm gonna, I'm gonna hit like 3 different points real fast. You threw out an acronym that I just, I want to give to our audience. When people talk about EBITDA, it's earnings before interest, taxes, depreciation, and amortization. And that's an internal number that helps to guide the direction of the business. It is something that is needed, but it's not something that everybody needs to focus on. Best guess on. But to understand it, I think it's there. So whenever anybody on my show throws out an acronym, it's like, yeah, yeah, hang on. All right. So earnings before interest, taxes, depreciation, and amortization. EBITDA. I love that you said when you were talking about in guiding, like your role in guiding is can we, we don't have to check every box. It's not about compliance unless it is. Yeah. And when it is, yeah, there's room. You must have a checklist. But otherwise, helping conceptually for each team to be, and you use this term that I've heard and used. I don't use it as much as I could or should even. I love the term being directionally close. And, and it's like, look, just head on the path. You're gonna get feedback along the way. As long as you're heading in the direction of, you know, you'll get there. It's sort of like head for where the sun sets, you know, you're heading west. That's awesome, right? So, um, being directionally close. And then, and then you said, uh, and have the numbers tell us about the business. That's where the storytelling comes in. We did this, we invested that, we got this return, we put this much into our human resources, our employee base, we put this much into technology.

Awesome.

Are we using it? Are we not using it? It tells the story and to tease that out and give it back so that that story is accessible, that's magical, right? That takes a special human, and you are that special human. Well, thank you. You're welcome. I also love this, right? 4 questions for the story: what happened, why did it happen, so what, and where do we go from here? I think that if, you know, I'm one of those like, wow, that's such a great tool. Like, we did that at the end of the day. If we just paused with a journal and said, okay, what happened today? Uh, why? Like, what were the conditions that made what happened happen? So what? Like, did it even matter, you know, in terms of my purpose? Was I spending time in the right direction? Exactly. Yeah. So what? And then, all right, so where do we go from here? What does tomorrow look like? And I think if we did that, you know, I'm all about leadership. I'm all about personal development. I'm all about culture. And I think those questions, they're so potent. They matter. They guide us, right? So, what happened? Why did it happen? You know, what were the conditions? So what? And where do we go from here? And that last one, I think is the most important.

It is.

You're right, right? Because, because you can't change what happened. Yeah. Um, you know, I've worked with people that have come through trauma. I've worked with people that have, uh, come through bankruptcy or almost lost their business. I've worked with people that have come through all kinds of stuff. It's like, okay, so that happened, and you could hold on to it as a deep scar that you're still getting over, or you could make that something that is what, what created your current baseline. You were at this place. Now what, what do you want to do? And I think for business owners, and I think for individuals, it's a great question. Where do you go from here? What do you actually desire?

No, that, that's exactly right. And I think that is the most important question. And I love what you framed, like, we can't change the past.. And what I have become in my life, I think I was always this way. It, you know, it's, I'm intellectually curious. Like I will, I can't, I'm not a kind of, well, I used to be during, in certain points of COVID and places like that, but I can't sit and watch TV all night. Like I'll watch a TV show here and there, but like, I'm always trying to learn. I'm always trying to grow up. Like I've taught myself all the AI platforms on my own for various degrees. Like, I'm always a learner. So it kind of falls into place with what you're talking about. Like, what have we learned from the things that we did right or wrong? I mean, you know, I've said this in other places, and it's all over Instagram, every place. It's like, you know, Tom Brady has the greatest little clip. It's like, you know, you know, how do they win the Super Bowls and what do they teach you? He's like, what do you mean the Super Bowls? It's like the losses that taught me. Like how to get better, how to do other things. I think that part— there's two parts to this to me, is that one, and we got to be careful not to go too far on the Tom Brady route, um, because I think that— yeah, lots of reasons, um, but I think that there's part about, you know, we set goals to achieve, and then when we achieve those goals, it's like, okay, now what do we do? And I don't want it to be that far that direction. There's certain— we have to appreciate our wins too. Those are important, and appreciation matters for not just ourselves but the people around us. But I do think you're 100% right about like, what are we gonna— what do these things tell us if we dwell in them and don't just use them as a way to move ourselves forward or get better? Then you're not— we're just stuck. And I've made so many mistakes. I've, I've made far more mistakes than I've been successful at the things I've been successful at.. But again, it took me a while to own up to that, you know? And I think that there's this revelation of the '50s, as you say, like it's almost like a retrospect on your life that you look back and you're like, wait, you know, what have I done? And, and I've actually now tried to use that as why I mentor other people and younger up and coming talent. Like, don't get so stuck on what, yet what happened. Like, it happened. Let's, how do I get you away? And this is what I'm sure you do in your practice, right? I think Those are the kind of things if you let that, it'll just tear you down forever. So it's similar goes into business. Like, what is this going to tell us about what our story is going to be? Also, is it in, is it in service of our goals? One of the first questions I ask clients now is, what are your goals? If you just want to stay flat, don't grow, you love your business, you love your people, don't want to change anything, that's your prerogative. You know, vast majority of my clients don't want to just do that. But if you want to do that, that's okay. That's your life. That's what you want to do. And how I can help you sustain, that's great. But I think so that what now or what we— what's going to go forward is very different for every person. And I think that's important for us, you know, to acknowledge.

It really is. Uh, in my role, I push people out of that comfort zone too, because it's kind of like, well, you know, we, we improve by 1% to 3% last year, and so we can predict that we'll do the same this year. And it's like, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. I'm like, is that what you want? Yeah. Well, you know, it's the safe way to go. It's like, snap out of it.

Is that what you want?

Right, right, right. Because it's like, well, you know, we did this last year. If you landed in your life right now and you had everything you had What would you want? And most people can't actually say. I know. And that's the work that I do, is I help people really define this, what I call the EPO, the envisioned positive outcome. What is their— I'm working on a program right now due to come out later this year. What is their next big next? What is like what you want? What is it that is going to get you inspired enough to go ahead and say, yeah, you know what, I can dare to desire. And as a business owner, it's the same thing. Can you dare to desire to grow, or is it just all fear-based? Well, like, you know, what if I get too big?

What if— it's like, right, it's what they're used to. And I also think it's funny that you said that because, um, I had the same exact issue when I asked for goals. Because that's the first thing I try. It's really hard for them to get it, to get it out of them. And what happens is, as I start to work with them more, I bring some of these similar storytellings that I've told you, or anecdotal situations, um, where I've had experience. And I explained to them, like, some of them I think underestimate their own ability, right? Like, in— or they don't know what they don't know.

And well, pretty much, pretty much they do underestimate their own ability. Most, most everybody that I've worked with is locked in a place of safety. And, and that is versus what you said, people don't know what they don't know, right? And people do know sometimes that they don't know that, so they should be afraid of whatever the that is, right? And it's like, no, no, no. You can learn what that is, and then you'd know it, and you'd know that you weren't competent at it yet. But the key word there is yet. So, right, it's like, get into it. So yeah, that's pretty important. Um, I, uh, you said something also that I wanted to just keep track of, that it's like there's a level of unconscious competence that people do have. It's like, well, how do you do that? Well, I don't know, I just know how to do it. It's like you work through the steps to get to do that, you know? And, and, and so, you know, the things that people don't know— unconscious incompetence is like you don't know what you don't know. Uh, conscious incompetence, you know that you don't know this thing and you're not good at it. Um, right, right. Uh, conscious competence, you know what, this is my place of agency, this is where I'm really good at stuff. And then unconscious competence is like, I just—

that's just what I do.

What are you talking about? Right? So I love that. I love that. You had said something else that I wanted to come back with. I do love that you start with goals. I will start with values also, like what are the values of the company? What are your personal values? Do they align? I think that's a great conversation. You know, where, where it's like, are you, are you living— like, do you love coming to work? Do you love the work that you do? And, um, when you do that, then it's not really work, right?

It's just part of your life. No, it, it's a really good point, and it's— and I'm glad you hit on that. Um, I actually, I have a process of how I, like, go through the sales process with clients, but it's not just a sales process, it's also understanding if they're a right fit for me and, and I'm a right fit for them. So I do an intake call, which I get a lot of information from, and that's why I personally am able to get, garner their values and like understand. I ask the kind of questions you just talked about, um, like where are you going, what do you feel about your company. You can almost get it without having to ask the questions. You just get the vibrance. Yes. And the people are interested and they want to talk about it and they're excited. And then there are some that like, I hate this, these people terrible. I'm like, it's not— we know enough. Again, this is experience stuff. I'll, you know, to just reiterate another thing you just said a few minutes ago, like, we— the steps we've taken in our careers, like, I could see that now. I don't— right? Yeah, I just know it. But you know, that's going to permeate everything that they do. And it's going to, it's going to drop down to their staff, it's going to be in the conversations with me. And those are the kind of people, like, I'd rather send them to you first to talk to before they work with me, because I think we got to break— it takes so much longer. Now, I will tell you that some of them have got through that. I've taken a few that have been like that. And then there's this, like, eye-opening moment of, like, "Oh, now I see it." But it takes a long time to get there because they're so entrenched in, "This is how I've done it. This is how I always want to do it. This is miserable." Yeah, when you start to like uncover something, let's have some fun with it. Like I start to make— again, going back to the manatees, I do these really weird, silly things. Obviously we talked about baseball. Baseball is all over my conversations with people, and it's, it's like a universal language with— I talk to like owners and founders and everybody, even if you're not a baseball fan, there's a connection to baseball in the world we live in. Um, so I bring it to that, and then it it softens the conversation a bit, you know, from analogies.

Yeah, I wanted to just talk also about, you know, there's this adage of, you know, go out and fail fast. And I've never been a fan of that phrase because it's like, why are you telling people to go fail? It's like, go out and do and do a lot. Do a lot, and you will fail. You'll also succeed. And, um, I was talking with somebody— he actually became a podcast guest, uh, and we were talking about, we were talking about if you look at an athlete's record and you made that an academic record, the fact that they fail more than 50% of the time but they are still a star athlete. Like, if, if you turned in test papers and you were, uh, you know, you were showing up at the 38% mark, that would be terrible, right? You'd fail. But it's not academic. It's the fact that they're out there over and over and over and over again, and the time that it matters is like Yeah, every time. Like, you know, that, that it's— you're showing up and you're hitting the home run, making the basket, and getting the, you know, touchdown, whatever it is, completing the pass, all those things. Like, whatever it is, it's— you got it this time, right? And I think— right, right. I just think it's really important. It's not go out and fail, it's more like go out and do.

Yeah. I think we use these really odd— there's a lot of these phrases and clichés that I don't agree with. I mean, and we can disagree on some of these too. I agree with you on that one. I really hate the work smarter, not harder phrase.

I'm allergic to that one as well.

Work smarter.

It's like, if I don't even know how to work smarter, like, right.

And I, and there's lots of people that have talked about this too, but like, Okay, so what if we all work smarter? Are the ones that are working harder gonna like outdo me, you know, or outpay?

So like, how about both?

How about— that's exactly it. Like, and I think that— and then also it's like individualized, right? Like, I mean, everyone's got— like, did we go back to the goals, what people want? And yes, we both try to push people out of their comfort zone a bit. Yeah. But I think that, you know, we're all individuals, and what works for somebody doesn't always work for somebody else. And I, and I think that these broad strokes of what we put on people and society and environment. We all come from different places, we all come from different environments, all different upbringings. The guy I was talking to before this call, he was in India and it was 11:45 at night and he's 28 years old and he's talking to me in Florida and I'm thinking to myself, he's driven. And you know what? We're gonna fail, we're gonna do it, but I don't think To your point, I don't think you go into the process looking to fail. Like, you go in and you may fail, and you learn from it. You're not going in with the intention, "I want to fail at this." Like, that's a silly—

Right. It's like saying to somebody that's just starting dating, you know, "I'll bet you're looking forward to your second marriage." Right, exactly.

What?

"I know we're gonna break up in a few months, but like, you know, it's okay." Yeah. It's like, no, right? I am a big fan of perspective, right? So that's where working smarter, quote unquote, happens. Yeah. And it's really about backing up enough to be able to see what options are available for you. Sometimes when you're in your own life, you can't see that. That's where getting an outside eye, where you bring that to an organization, where I bring that to leaders and the leadership team, The outside perspective makes all the difference. There is a saying that I do agree with. You can't read the label from inside the jar, which is right. There's so much in your own life. You can't see things that are— yeah, they might be right in front of you, but you can't actually see them. I also have a saying that I use where people are like, well, we've always done it that way. It's like, and doing it different means you're a little uncomfortable. It's like, ooh, and you watch them sort of tighten up. They do. It's like, okay, so then my question of them is, well, do you know what happens if you don't step out of your comfort zone? Yeah, right. And the answer is absolutely nothing. Absolutely nothing happens if you don't make yourself just a little uncomfortable. And I'm, I'm a fan of that every day. Like, do something that you haven't done every day.

Well, I mean, even this, like, there's a couple of things you hit on there which are really important because it comes right into this entrepreneurial business, right? So I think one of the ones is that, look, I was terrified to do this. Like, I'm not going to say like— and I'm— and I look as an accountant, I'm an accountant. So like, we're naturally conservative, right? That's just how we're bred. We're taught that way, you know, be safe, be, you know. And I finally got to a point where, like, again, you know, age matters here and you're where you are in your life. So that was important. So I think, you know, that has given me a different perspective. The other part was you meant is about the inside out. And I think what has also been really interesting about doing what I do now is that I see an entirely different vision when I look at companies as opposed to when I was inside the company. Oh, absolutely right. It's a whole— I'm like, I'm seeing things like, wow, how did I not see that in my— when I was on the job of a full-time CFO? That I see in what I see with, with clients now. And it's— it is the ones that trust me or learn to trust me understand that perspective. And we've made movies, and I'm not patting myself on the back, I just now have seen it from the other side. And it really— you're 100% right about that. And I— and that's why I've also now been open to these other business endeavors that I never would have seen before. Yes. So it is— there is that pushing myself out of the comfort zone to start this business opened up a whole other world for me that I never thought would ever happen. And I think that's important to convey that message. It's not easy for anybody to do. You still gotta—

it's still hard. Yeah, it's hard because it's new. It's sort of like new, right? You, you, you know, people are like, oh, I wish it would be easier. It's like, no, just wish yourself to be better.

Right?

Right. It's like when you first start lifting a weight, even, you know, 5 pounds or 10 pounds, it's like, wow, that's hard. And then you lift the weight and you lift the weight and you lift the weight and suddenly your body's responding to that. And now 5 or 10 pounds is, is like, that's too light. The weight didn't change, you did, right? So that's, that is huge. Wow.

That's awesome. Consistency and discipline are like so underrated. You know, it's just one of those things that just, you know, it is.

So in terms of perspective, right, I, uh, I have this thing. I'm just gonna go on my own little riff for a second, which is, you know, my— the, the TEDx that I've done that has over 2 million views on it is called, and it's a really fancy title, How a Parallax Perspective Disrupts Perceptual Bias. And it's a really fancy title for saying starting with perceptual bias, we look for things we're familiar with, right? If you push yourself to a parallax perspective, which means to look at something slightly adjacent, look at something from a slightly different angle, ask for an outside perspective. When you do that, you overcome your own bias about the thing. And I basically end up suggesting that we eliminate all, all assumptions in our world except for one. And that is you can make the assumption, make the assumption that you're missing something, right? You're missing something about the context and the situation, about the other person, about yourself, what blinders you have on. I think that's just so valuable, right? That it's like, is, yeah, seek an outside perspective for that reason.

Right. I think that it's, and it's like the same thing with coaching. Like, some people are resistant to that. I mean, I'm, I mean, you and I talked about this because I'm very open about it. I am a huge advocate for mental health, which is your whole, what you do, your profession. Um, and I am not at all ashamed to say that I've gone, went to therapy for 5 years, like, through some difficult times and things like that. We are not at least in my opinion, we're not meant to be individuals on this planet and operating in a vacuum, right? We are meant to work, to be, live together, to coexist, to help each other. And I will be the first to admit that it took me a while to ask for help in every, in any regard, like even coaching for what I do or asking for support. Even right now, like I needed some, like I can't do all my content and still do the accounting work and still network and still sell.. And I finally realized that, you know what, those are valuable parts where I have to ask for help. And so many of us don't ask for help. And I think, um, those are not things, you know, to take lightly. Coaching, therapy, all those aspects of life are important. We have to be part of each other's lives to get further. And I think that that's where you and I come in, is, you know, in our professions. And I'm not— this isn't a sales pitch. This is— I've learned this. Like, I've now—

I have people supporting me. You know, it's absolutely real. I mean, if you look at, if you look at the highest performing athletes, right, you know, pick any athlete, how many coaches do they have, right? Exactly. It's not zero and it's not one or two. It's— they are getting up to six, maybe sometimes more.

I think Michael Jordan had like 10, right? You know, like trainers, dietitians, coaches, like, you know, all kinds of— and now with the technology, there's all kinds of other things that are involved.

So yeah, so, so seek that, seek that expertise. Asking for help is a strength. It's one of the things that, that when I work with leaders too, it's like, repeat this phrase: I need your help. Now go take that phrase to your team and see what happens. And suddenly they find out that their team trusts them more. Right? There's, there's all of that. It's like, wow, he dared, he, she said that they, you know, they needed my help. And of course I want to help. That's awesome.

It doesn't make you weak. It's, uh, no, right. And I think that it takes some time for all of us who like were independent and driven and oriented like certain things like that. You realize, wait a minute, that is not like a ding on you for asking for help. Like We all need help.

Like, it's just, it's what it is. It's exactly, exactly. And it helps to answer the fourth question of your four: where do we go from here? Like, so what am I working on that I really could use help on? And, um, you know, what am I missing? If you go back to that, what might I be missing? And getting an outside perspective about either how I'm acting or how I'm thinking or how my team as a group is thinking. Like, I'm too close to it to actually see it, right? So get this outside perspective, it's great. It's really great. Joe, our time has flown. What were you hoping I would ask you that I haven't asked you?

What were you hoping to share? I love this conversation. And we are going to do some things together, I feel like. I really enjoyed just our getting to know our conversation. I really enjoyed this. You know, I love talking about people in life and how we can help others, um, and I think we hit on those in various different directions. So I appreciate you asking all that. I, I mean, I'm learning every day too, um, you know, I— that's growth.

That, like, if you stop learning, what happens?

You start dying. Exactly. And I'm trying to share that perspective with people every day so that I could hope that they can learn. And I really am— and this is totally sincere— I, my life feels so much more enriched since I've made this move. And I met so many great people, whether I do wind up doing business with them or not. Like, that has made my life better.

Like, this conversation has made my life better.

The human connection, right? It's real connection, right? This is like, it's a relationship. So anyway, I don't think there's anything You know, we could, you know, in a year from now, maybe we could do a part 2. And like, I'd be like, oh my God, wait, what did I go through? No, I'm kidding. I'm not expecting that. But, you know, you never know. And I think that these are learnings again. And I appreciate you having me. This was really great. I think we hit on all of some really important stuff.

And yeah, we talked about everything from Evita to—

I was gonna say, I don't wanna talk about Evita. I wanna talk about that again.

We can have another whole meeting on that one. It's so great. But, you know, so like the whole idea of I'm bringing a fractional CFO onto the podcast and it's like snooze fest, no, to yeah, I'm bringing a fractional CFO who actually I'm bringing a really great human onto the podcast who happens to hold the role of fractional CFO. And it's great because your humanity showed up and, you know, that's I, I, you know, I just appreciate that so much. I appreciate you being here.

So, Joe, no, it's been great. And thanks again, and, and thanks for, um, having me.

And all these conversations have been great. If people wanted to find you, is the best way on LinkedIn or a website? Like, why don't you give yourself a plug for a second? Yeah, sure.

I mean, LinkedIn is, is— I'm always on there, so it's easy to reach me there. Um, you could follow me on LinkedIn, you could DM me there. I answer. I'm one these wildly crazy people who answer almost every DM on LinkedIn. Um, and then, but also if you go to, uh, finstratcfo.com, there you could— I am very open about booking time with me. Um, I do free consultations. Um, there's also a newsletter you can sign up which goes out on Monday, uh, mornings that, um, has been really— I've gotten great response for. And I use— and if you're— if you like my manatee analogies, I also talk about alligators and baseball football and all kinds of funny things that tie to sports. But yeah, I'm always open to talking to people. I love relationships, I love conversations, so feel free to reach out.

That's great. All right, so I'm gonna spell your name because, right, finding you on LinkedIn, you have to know how to spell it. Joe is easy, J-O-E. Um, Hamrahi, H-A-M-R-A-H-I. So Joe Hamrahi on LinkedIn. And then Finstrat is It's like Financial Strategies, finstrat, F-I-N-S-T-R-A-T-C-F-O.com, finstratcfo.com. And those are both the places that you can find Joe, an amazing human. I look forward to our continued conversations and connection because it's great. It was really great to have you here. Thank you. Yeah, a pleasure. Alrighty, so it's that time we wind it up. Joe Hamrahi has been my guest. I am Dr. Wayne Purnell, Dr. P, your host, guide, and coach on this journey. This is One Sharp Sword, cutting through to what matters most, and we will see you here next time. Thanks for being with us. Thanks for listening to One Sharp Sword, cutting through to what matters most, with outfluencer Dr. Wayne Purnell. For more information, please go to onesharpsword.com.