Interview with Emily Sander

Welcome to One Sharp Sword cutting through to what matters most with your host, Dr. P. Dr. Wayne Purnell, the breakthrough success coach and your powerful presence mentor.

Welcome to One sharp sword cutting through to what matters most. I'm your host, Dr. P. Dr. Wayne Purnell, the exponential success coach and the president of Dynamic Leader Incorporated. Today my guest is the author of two books she's coming from, having come from the C suite and now plays in the land of executive leadership. My guest is now a leadership coach and she calls herself the Yoda. To your loop. I want to find out more. Welcome Emily Sander, Dr. P. It's great

to be with you. Thank you so much.

This is going to be fun because you have corporate in your background, you have C suite in your background, and you have executive coaching, which is what your executive and leadership coaching, which is what you're doing now. And I love all of that. There's a lot of parallel in my background and what I'm doing now and your background to what you're doing now. And I just thought it'd be fun to have you on. So. Yeah.

So,

you know, one of my favorite things is to. Is to just start with, you didn't wake up one day and go, I'm going to executive coach. Or I'm aiming for the C suite. Like, what was your path? What's your background? What, where did you grow up? What kind of influences were on you when you were. When you were younger? College, all that stuff?

Yes. So I'll answer that by telling you my favorite superhero is Superman. You can see that book I have up there with this Superman cape. And my, my dad was a huge comic book fan growing up, and I was just drawn toward Superman. He fought for good, he used his powers for good, and he never gave up. And he was also adopted, just like me. So I was born in Seoul, South Korea, and then I was brought over to the States as a very small baby, six and a half months old and grew up in Seattle, Washington. And so my dad picked up on the fact that I was drawn to Superman. And then when I was growing up and kids were being kids and saying different sorts of things, and I was kind of struggling with that a little bit. He reminded me that, hey, m. You know, Superman is adopted too. So that was. That's. Yes. That little.

Aw, that is. That's awesome. It's great. And my son is actually visiting Seoul right now. He's been there.

Really?

For the past month. Yeah, it's. And the photos he's sending back, they're incredible. So. And the videos, and it's. It's awesome. And that's fantastic. So you grew up in Washington?

Yep. So, I mean, how that translates into. Into what I do now? I think that I've. I've always tried to be like Superman in certain ways and use my powers for good and never give up. And I had two amazing parents who were very successful business people in their own rights. And so I had two great examples, not only who took an interest and obviously invested in. In me, but also just by example. And it's funny, you know, when I was little, I took that for granted and I thought, oh, well, everyone's parents, or every time someone grows up to be an adult, they must be hardworking, full of integrity, respectful, smart, you know, funny, all these things, and have common sense. And as I've gotten older, I take a look around, I'm like, ooh, that is not the case. That is not the case at all.

Common sense is not common. No, no. While we expect integrity because we operate at that level, it's very surprising how that kind of shows up where people slide a little bit. So, yeah, yeah, yeah. I want to underscore something, you know, and I'll do this throughout our time. Use your powers for good and never give up. And I think if there's a statement that comes from this podcast that any of our audience can use, it's that, like, use you. We all have great powers and use our powers for good. And persistence has been shown over and over again to be the key to breaking through for excellence and success. So use your powers for good and never give up. Awesome.

That's the show. Thanks, folks. Yeah,

that's right. That's it.

I've come. What I've done here to do. But no. So I think that because I had such great examples, I didn't know what I wanted to be when I grew up. I wasn't like, oh, I want to be a lawyer or an artist or an astronaut or any of those specific things. But I knew I wanted to be a business person and be a leader. And I, you know, you didn't even quite know what those things meant, but I saw my mom and dad doing that. They would always talk to me about different historical figures who were great leaders, you know, modern, contemporary leaders that we had in our news. And I just wanted to be that. And I thought, oh, that's a noble calling, to be a great leader and to serve those around you really well and to also accomplish great things. And so I kind of fell into a bunch of different things. But one of those things that I fell into was being a tester for the original Kindle device at Amazon. And, and no one quite knew what an E reader was back then. Trying to explain this concept to people was, was pretty interesting. But now it's pretty ubiquitous in the market and everyone knows what a Kindle is. And that, you know, that kind of chance encounter there launched me into a whole bunch of different things. So we can often sit where we are now and then look back and say, oh, and that got me here. And this person opened this door and that one did that. And so I think that was a, certainly a big launching point for my career in the tech world and managing a whole bunch of client facing teams at large corporations like Amazon and Microsoft and then at a whole bunch of startup or small to medium tech companies as well.

Amazing. Steve Jobs said that you can only connect the dots looking backwards. And yes, that's what you're doing is each of us is on this path and we don't know what this encounter means and what doors it will open. You just got to stay open to it. So you've been with Amazon, you've been with. What was the other one you said?

Microsoft and then a whole bunch of smaller ones you wouldn't know the name of, but technical services. Yeah.

That's so great. So what happened? I mean, you worked your way to the C suite and what happened? Usually, usually what I find is that leaders who shift into coaching feel like, boy, everybody should hear this. Like there's a, there's a frustration point of wow, I'm good at what I do and everybody could stand to level up. So was there a turning point for you at some point?

Yes. So I was reflecting back on all the corporate jobs I've had and I was like, what rises to the top? What's most memorable, what was most rewarding? And over and over I literally wrote down a list and I had a piece of paper and what kept coming up at every single role was the one on one interactions I would have with someone. So it wasn't oh, we accomplished this revenue goal or oh, there was this client exclusive escalation that we turned around. It was, I helped Jennifer feel more confident speaking up at team meetings or Christian didn't think he could present effectively yet by the time I left, he was giving presentations at our annual Risk Summit in London in front of hundreds and hundreds of people and just having those points of contact with people. And then there's been team members and colleagues of Mine who have been kind enough to reach out to years and years later saying, Emily, when you did this or when you said that it meant the world to me and it opened a door. And now look where I am because of that. And I was like, oh my gosh, that if I can get up in the morning and do nothing but that, I will be a real happy camper and I'll feel like I'm making a meaningful difference. And so it got to a point where I was happy with what I was doing and I was accomplishing the things that you check the box and accomplish in corporate world. But I said, I think now is the time to put all the chips on the table and go all in on starting my coaching business. And I did. And that was about just under two years ago now. And it's going very well. I'm having a lot of fun and I do wake up excited for each day.

I think that's so important too know I just. Waking up excited, waking up in gratitude, waking up ready to serve. I think that also like that is a leadership lesson that we can give to every one of our audience members. Just like if you're not, if you're not in this space of really loving what you do, you might have to look at are you in the wrong job or are you in the job wrong? And it's right. It's either, it's either what you're doing doesn't match you or how you're doing what you're doing is, is going to set the tone for the entire day. So that's awesome. Talk a little bit about the, the one to one coaching you do. I also want to go into a little bit about the. You have two books out now and my guess is you're working on a third because authors never stop.

So would be correct. Yes.

Yeah. So, so yeah, talk about the one coaching. Like how does, how does it work for you? How do you get your clients? What are some of the key points? You know, because our audience, I don't think I've ever said this on the air. The audience that I have ranges from these are the people I know mechanics to students to mid level leaders, to entrepreneurs, to, to bank presidents. So it is, it really is the gamut. And for anyone listening in, you're in there somewhere. Right. So what might be a, a leadership lesson or two, something that, that our audience can go, oh yeah, I could, I could put that into my daily life.

That's a good question. That's a big question. So the first thing I would say is if there's one skill then that anyone can invest in to make their lives better, especially leaders, is communication. So as a leader, you are communicating all day long through different mediums, different channels, different audiences, different agendas, all those things. And so if you can be really adaptable and be able to be an effective communicator in a whole bunch of different scenarios, you are going to go far. And if all things are equal, the better communicator will go further. And so I think probably the main thing I want to get across there is if you're listening to this, you have a communication style, and you have a bias and a preference for how you like to be communicated to and receive information, and then also how you typically convey information to others. And that's fine. That's all well and good. Understand that everyone around you has a different, a slightly different communication style than you do. So it can be a little bit different, or it can be a lot different. It can be way over here. And even you just hearing that and understanding that is going to open some things up for you. And then if you take that and run with it and say, okay, let me dig in there and like, what is my communication style and why do I like that? And what is good about that? And what are some things I might be missing? And, oh, let me be a little bit more observant and curious about the people on my team and the people I typically interact with and say, are they. Are they picking up what I'm lying down? Are they receiving what I'm telling them in the way that I'm intending it? And so that's a key concept I would say is important for leaders.

It's a huge concept. The idea of communication being adaptable, and underlying that is the understanding that there are two things. One is the desire for you as a leader, to be heard. And the other thing is that as a leader, acknowledging that others have a desire to be heard as well. And so. Right. So that's where the adaptable communication style comes in, that you're listening, you're acknowledging. I mean, those are the. One of the key factors for employees, team members in any organization right now. One is tell me that the work I'm doing is valuable. Two is catch me doing it and acknowledge me. And those are huge. And so having an adaptable communication style, Emily, it makes all the difference. It's great.

And I want to key in on something you said. Listening. Listening is not a soft skill. It's not a nice to have. You have to be a good listener, you have two ears and one mouth, and that's about the ratio that you should be doing those two activities on. And I remember when I was early in my career, midpoint in my career, and I literally sat in my office sometimes saying, I wish the CEO would ask me my opinion on this, because I have opinions, I have thoughts, I have ideas. I see things that they don't see, and I wish they would ask. And sometimes I would even practice. Okay, if anyone were to ask me this question, here's what I would tell them, and just kind of rehearse that conversation. But no one ever asked me. And so I think when I was in leadership, I said, you know what? I am going to be proactive about asking what people think about something. And just that can be a casual water cooler, you know, kitchen or conference room conversation, or it can be, you know, something a little bit more, hey, let's. Let's grab time on the calendar, or let's pop out to Starbucks before COVID all these things. And I just want to. I just want to talk to you. But being really proactive about that and then not having a conversation where it's like, oh, well, I want to talk to you so I can swing you to my side or convince you of this thing. I want to talk to you so I can listen and learn about what's going on in your world.

It's about gaining information versus influence. And in listening, you actually have more influence. It's. It's a great skill. It's a great skill. That's. That's great. What, what builds off of that? Where do you go from there? Once you've listened, once you've acknowledged, then

what I think, you know, as humans, we're meant to explore and we're meant to grow and progress. And so there's adaptability, which is being able to be flexible and to change things up and roll with the punches. But there also is, are you actively trying to show up at your best and, you know, become the best version of yourself is kind of cliche now, but it is literally, are you the best version of yourself? Are you optimizing your talent, your time? And if not, not only bad for you, but the world is missing out. So we need people to be operating at the top of their potential. Because when people are operating at the top of their potential, then everyone around them wins. So it's not just, oh, it's just a me thing. It's, I need to be at my best, to contribute at my best. And if you think about everyone doing that in the entire world, then the world becomes a very different place.

That's so true. Benefit extension. So if I'm at my best and I help to raise you even just a little by me being better, it's so good. And that's the, I mean, that's the reason someone would reach out to you as a, as an executive coach is I want to hone my skills. I want to get that bit better. And you know, continuous learning is so important. And when you learn about yourself, that's also so important.

Yeah. Really being self aware, you gotta, that's. If you don't have that, it's gonna be, it's gonna be tough to make any substantial progress. But it's funny you mentioned the type of people. So I work with a whole range of folks, but recently I've been getting a lot of clients who I would say are mid career or maybe mid late career. And they've kind of gotten to this point where Emily, I, I don't like what I'm doing. I'm not, I'm being burnt out, I'm being drained by my role. And this is what I've always done. And I know I need to change, but I don't know what. And basically what they're saying is I had my, I was climbing the ladder and now I figured out the ladder was up against the wrong wall. And so now I got to figure out, what do I, what do I do with my life now? And it's this interesting piece. Some of them get very emotional about it because it's their life's work and it's where they've spent 16, 18 hour days away from their family. And it's like, what was this about and where do I go from here? So I think really taking the time to say, all right, what am I about? What do I want to be about? How do I want to go throughout my day in my world? And living your life by design, not default is, I think, a good goal for leaders to have anyone to have really. But certainly leaders to know what they're about. And if you don't know what you're about, it's real hard to lead a team.

Too. True. So starting with values. And values do change over time. I mean, what we valued in our 20s is so different. Right. You know, you're different human. So what you value now is, is super important. If you look at who and what you want to bring into your life, then you start building those values of the person that has those things.

Yeah, Right.

So you start that now. And that's. That is a huge exploration of what am I about? Why does this matter to me?

And I think you're right. I mean, first of all, you should be evolving and adapting. So if you are, you know, 39 and you're going after the same things and being worried about the same things you were at 19, that's probably a data point and something you want to look at, but it's a data point.

Yeah.

Might be a flag of a certain color.

There you go. Yes.

Yellow to red flag, but yes. And I remember when I was about 19, I remember someone saying, you know, it's not about the things that you have or the things that you go after. If you want those things, become the type of person who draws those in. And at the time, I was like, okay, like, all right, that's. That's nice. In Woo woo land, let's go sit under a tree and, you know, sit in a circle and cry. But now, as I've gotten older and wiser, I'm like, ooh. There was some truth in that statement. There's a lot of truth in that statement. There is. If you want those things, if you want to have those things, then who do you need to become and what do you need to be in order to draw those to you? And there's a mix of hustle and drive and ambitious, and let me work hard, and there's also. Let me craft and forge the person I want to become in order to have the things that a person like that has.

It's. You're singing my song. That's exactly right. That's the kind of work that I love as well. How clear can you be about the vision of what you want to have, to do, to be or to do, have or be in your life? How clear is that vision? And. And then it's like, well, anything that's not. That is not your path. And most people get onto this. Well, I'm supposed to, you know, create this stability. I'm supposed to be stable and danger.

Danger Will Robinson.

Right. So all the. All the supposed tos. Absolutely, yeah. They interrupt the actual path of fulfillment.

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in the coaching community, common saying is most people walk out the door and should all over themselves and say like, I should do this, I should do that. And everyone knows you should do that. And so I'm doing this. And really it's about having some agency and saying here's what I want and what I want to be about. And by the way, something you said is saying yes to that means saying no to other things. Exactly. So being very deliberate, like, okay, I'm after this. That is that one closer to my goal or further away? Does that one draw me closer to the person I want to become or farther away? And that's where you stay focused. So you gotta keep your eyes fixed on the. On the prize.

Exactly. You know, it was Fritz Pearls, who was the founder of Gestalt Psychology, who first said, should's are and there's no reason to should all over yourself or anyone else. So. And that was back in the late 50s, early 60s. And, and so it's been. That saying has been adapted and is widespread and, and worth remembering that there's no reason to should all over yourself or anyone else. Love the idea about being deliberate. That's really important. I think that, you know, you wake up with excitement and anticipation for the day. You don't go to bed not knowing what the day tomorrow holds. You go to bed knowing what tomorrow holds and likely the next day and likely the next day. So that when you wake up, you're like, I am so in it. I am in it. Let's go. Versus many people who go to bed and wake up and it's like, oh, same stuff, different day. Yay. And it's like, well, you get an opportunity to approach the day differently. You get an opportunity to step in and make a difference, even if it's to your co workers by a smile or you know, to your up level or to your downline. You know, it's like to your family, you get a chance to make a difference just based on how you enter the day. So again, I love what you said, which is be deliberate.

Yeah. And there was, you know, interesting. I was having a conversation with a friend of mine and we were going back and forth and I might not Have a fully formed thought here, But I wanted to bring it up. And we were talking about, you know, how did we get on this topic? It was, what is your grandma's middle name? I think we were talking about family trees, and I was like, ooh. And I had to, like, really think and dig in my brain, like, do I know my grandma's middle name? And I do. It's Viola, by the way. But I was like, who's my great grandmother? And, like, what was she about? I was like, I have no idea. And my friend and I were talking about, you know, we get so wrapped up in what we do and what we achieve and how we look and the image and what people think of us, which is a big one for a lot of people, myself included, and in, I don't know, couple generations, you know, a couple decades. And, you know, I don't know, it's just, who's going to know your middle name? Type of thing. So I was thinking about that, and I don't know if that's a. Like a sad state of affairs or it's actually freeing.

Well, I think it's both. You know, back to. I wrote a book called Dynamic Transitions. And the idea is that, again, it's. It's. You're not the same person you were in your 20s, in your 30s, and your 40s. In your 20s, there's a lot of, look at me. In your 30s, there's a lot of, how do I build stability? In your 40s, you start to look at legacy. How can I create something that exists beyond me? In your 50s, it's kind of like, well, I gave. Now it's time for me. I want adventure, I want health. In your 60s, it's kind of a combination of all of that. I want to build my legacy. I want to visit my legacy, which are the. The progeny, the grandchildren as well. So. And then the adventure, the health, all of that. So I think in terms of, do I matter? That's a huge existential question. Who am I and do I matter? I think that. That, you know, when you get in a job and you've grown in that job, at some point you go, what's it all for?

Yes.

And. And it's a great question. It's a great question. And I think that if you can ask yourself that every day and you go, you know what? It's to make a difference, then you're on the right path. That's. That's me.

No, thank you for sharing that. You know, what came up when you were Saying that is the question of, what am I here for? That's a. That's a big question, right? A lot of people will not sit there and answer that question. They'll distract themselves. Let me go on social media. Let me go here. Let me. Da, da, da. Soccer practice, the kids, all that stuff. But that is the question, right? Like that. Like, what's our purpose? Why are we here? What are we doing here? How do you be a good human? Like, an eye is a good eye because it sees well. An ear is a good ear because it hears well. What does a good human do? And I think people get scared by, you know, do I matter? That's a big question. That's a scary question. I think people distract themselves and then they get into the point where, oh, I've distracted myself with what society says is important, which is status and title and money and all these things. And then you get to a certain point where you gotta face the music or face the silence and answer that question.

I love this. I love where we're going with this. Emily. I had no idea. So for me, my, my perspective is that two things happen. Yes, we distract ourselves tremendously because sitting with the unknown is incredibly uncomfortable. The other thing that happens is that we wait for this discovery of purpose, and we don't discover purpose. We're already in purpose. And what we have to discover is what's not that. So maybe it is taking the kids to soccer is the thing. It's like, maybe that's the purpose. Or maybe doing that as a chore opens the door to, wow, I'm going to start a kid's foundation. That's the bigger purpose. Right. And so it's activity. It's not sitting and pondering what's my purpose? It's the activity. Because you may find on the way that there's a. That there's a homeless shelter, a food bank that actually needs you. That's right next door to the soccer field. Like, you won't know until you know. And I have a thing about listening to the whispers. Listen to the whispers. Because that's like, you get this tug at your heart and it. It kind of cuts through the noise if you can listen to those. Because that's the stuff that you've been putting off for someday. And it's really. That's the. That's the stuff of purpose.

Yeah, I saw, I saw a quote somewhere that said one day or day one. So is it on your one day list or is this day one? And I thought that was. That was A good quote, but yeah. Yes. It's funny, the whisper, which implies that you have to be quiet and you can't be ding, ding, ding. All these different things.

No more distractions. Like, I have two phones. Right. So. And I don't know how many computers. Computers and E readers and tablets, and it's easy to get sucked into all the flashing and buzzing and the need.

But to actually answer that question and kind of fill the void where it's like you have this existential crisis where you're like. And then you just distract yourself. And instead what actually fills that is. Is what you said, which is taking action.

Yes.

Meaning to become the person. Yeah. And it's.

And it's almost cleaning out your desk drawer is sort of like. That's another distraction. It's getting up and engaging in with others until you go, wow, that was kind of meaningful. That made a difference to me, and it made a difference to other people. That must be part of my purpose.

And it might be, you know, oh, other people go to food banks or other people do charity things. Like, I don't do that. I would have to really think about, like, what causes do I want, what days of the week. And if you, like, if, like you said, you just went to do that. Oh, I've become that person now. I've become the person who drops off stuff at the food bank next to soccer practice. And that is like the action defining the character versus us sitting there and kind of thinking and thinking and planning and all these different things.

That's exactly right. Let's go back to Superman for a minute. Right. Superman doesn't just sit and go, I don't know. Cape looks good.

Tights look good.

Tight. Some cape wait for the breeze. Because the cape was gonna. No, no. Like, what's the purpose? He's, you know, Superman is super because of his capabilities and because he uses those capabilities.

This is interesting because. So back to my dad, too. One of the things that. So I used to say to him, oh, dad, I'll always be like Superman because I'll come back home to you and mom to figure out if I'm on the right track. Because Superman is Clark Kent, he would often go home to Kansas. And that's kind of in the. In the comic book, in the canon. That's where he got his grounding, his kind of moral compass. And my dad, of course, loved that when I was a little kid. I'll always come back to you and mom and make sure I'm on the right. On the right path. You're like, oh, that's great. Oh, let me have onion in my eye. But I think that's important, too, to say, okay, what's our kind of compass here? What's our guiding point? And then Superman. There was a scene in one of the movies, it was a Brandon Routh version, so, like, not the good kind, but there was one cool scene in there where he flies up to space and he's kind of looking down at the earth and he's listening. And because he has super hearing, he can hear everything. He can hear every cry for help, and all these people are shouting, and so he has to pick which one he wants to go down to and help. And then he, whoosh, flies down and goes to help that one. So when you mentioned that, I was like, ooh, lots of things are clicking, clicking in there.

This is great. Because there are always going to be causes, and you get to pick which one you choose to put your energy into, and that may not be the one for you. You won't know until you do it. Right? You won't know until you do it. And there are. There's so many people that need assistance. How do you. How do you save them all? You can't. You, as an individual, can't. You, as an individual, can be the best you. To lift other individuals around you. To lift other individuals around you. And that's the point, is that, you know, other people are one of the things. As long as we're on this path, people are like, oh, don't you feel bad for the, you know, the people around the world who have this strife or this trouble or this. It's like my feeling bad is not going to help them. My ability to be at my best is the thing that's going to help them because. Right. If I can help people around me to wake up, to become their best selves, then we're going to make a difference in the world. If I'm like, oh, the world is terrible. It's falling down. This is horrible. Right. If we're in that space, all we're doing is projecting negative energy and bringing people around us down. That is a suck. And that is not your purpose. Right?

Yes. Well, there was a. I forget where I heard this, but someone was saying, oh, there's all these starving children and everything. And look at all the abundance of food we have in the west and certainly in America. And someone in that conversation said, well, we, you know, we can sit there and feel bad about it, sit there, feel bad about our food, or we can eat our food and say, all right, let me be grateful for this and let it, let it fuel me to go do some work and go take action to help those things, to help those causes. And I thought that was a nice little way to, way to put that example.

That's exactly right. Yeah. You fuel yourself. For one of my sayings, you can't give what you don't have. So if you, if you're running on empty, you cannot lift others. You've got to fuel yourself, good food, good rest, and fuel yourself with the work that we do, you and I, by raising consciousness. Right? You fuel yourself. You can't give what you don't have. So if you're operating sort of at an 8 instead of at a 10, you've got to get a coach, which is, you know, that's what we do. We have a perspective that, that others don't. And you got to get a coach that can help you come up a notch or two. Right. So you can't give from a place that you're not at.

Yeah, no, I, I agree 100%.

So, I mean, the, the work you're doing is, is amazing. I'm loving our conversation. Talk to me about something so unique to you that is. I don't know anything about your books, so please. You've got two out there. You've got one in the works, at least one. So talk about the books and then we'll tell people how to find you and how to find your books and anything else that we've left out, certainly.

So the first book I wrote is called Hacking Executive Leadership, and it's a bunch of tools for people. So if you're in business, if you're a business leader, it has a bunch of tools. Honestly, some of these frameworks can be used outside of business as well. But I wrote that during COVID and it's basically a short, easy read about the lessons that I've learned in my career and then in my coaching practice. So we have things like three circles and how to make better decisions, and the swizzle framework, which is a made up word about how to be creatively resourceful, and the failure loop to never fail again. So some of those types of concepts. And then my second book is called An Insider's Perspective on the Chief of Staff. And the Chief of staff is the role that I held and that is a strategic advisor to the CEO. And they also work very closely with the executive team and they're working across the board. So instead of one silo, like operations, finance, product, they're looking at the entire organization as a whole and coordinating a whole bunch of cross department initiatives. So if you're, if you've heard about that role, you're like, oh, like what is that? It's a, it's a good book for you. If you're, I want to become a chief of staff or I know a chief of staff, then it might be interesting for you as well.

I think it might be, it might have broad appeal in that if you're looking at running an organization, if you're an entrepreneur, you need to know what a chief of staff does. How does a chief of staff think? Because a chief of staff fuels the CEO, fuels the coo, is behind the scenes in HR and every turn develops communication styles. It's and, and, and does what you do, building leadership. I mean, so,

and, and to tag onto something you said at the very top of the call, you said exponentially. So they help their leader kind of the, the term in the industry is a force multiplier, but they exponentially kind of help things. So you're taking a leadership team at a company from like a circle, a 2D circle on a piece of paper to a sphere. So it's game changing that team and that organization. If you get the right chief of staff in there, love it.

That's awesome. What are you working on?

What's your next, next? I have a book about private equity investments. So I've been at a whole bunch of PE firms. Yeah, it's kind of a, kind of a different one. And I'm co authoring that with two of my former colleagues. So they former CEOs and CFOs. And we're basically trying to make an accessible book for founders and leadership teams who are considering or have partnered with a PE firm. And what that is, what that decision is about, what to expect if you make that decision and all those things. But instead of like an academic paper and kind of all these different Gantt charts and da da, da, just something that speaks in normal language about what this is and what it means for you as an executive team member in those situations. So I'm excited about that one. It's really fun to be working with Rory and Ed. And I'm also working on my first online course which is going to be about a strategic planning tool for chiefs of staff and other executives. So super excited about both of those.

That's amazing. The creator you are, that's. I think it's amazing that you can, you can take private equity concepts and put them in terms that people don't, like, roll their eyes and then pass out. Right.

So that is the natural reaction that people have.

Oh, P. E. What, Like. Yeah, no, that's so great.

Yeah.

And then Strategic Tools is going to be a great course. Good for you. You are able to be found on LinkedIn, I'm assuming.

Yes.

So Emily Sander.

No S at the end. Yep.

And. And next level dot coach.

Yes.

So www.nextlevel dot coach.

And that's a great hub to go. So you have my links to my books there. I've got some free downloads that are helpful to people. And then I have a link to my podcast, which is called Leveraging Leadership. So if you want to know more about the chief of staff role and hear from chiefs of staff, then you can listen to a few interviews on that show.

That's fabulous. Your website, by the way, is one of the best I've seen.

Oh, thank you.

Seriously, in terms of the way it's laid out, in terms of the offering, everything is so clean, and it's really clear what you're getting. So I just. I wanted to give you that feedback and to say it on the podcast so that it actually gives incentive for people to go and look at it.

I appreciate that. No, especially coming from you. I appreciate that.

Oh, you're welcome. Yeah. Nextlevel Coach. It is worth checking out. Emily Sander is worth checking out anything that I didn't ask you that you wanted to make sure that we covered.

Ooh, we covered a lot. We went into different directions. No, there's so much that you and I could talk about, so, you know, happy to continue the conversation on this show, on my show and in other places, but it's been an absolute pleasure to be on with you. And I didn't know that I would be getting to talk about my childhood hero, Superman, so much, but it was fantastic. So thank you.

Yeah, you're welcome. My goal is to make one sharp sword. It's like we cut through to what matters most, and instead of first this and then I did that, it's like, what matters to you? Really? What matters to you? And how do we, like, each of us has a thing that matters to us, and it's, you know, it's the foundation of. Of our identity at some. At some level. So I'm glad we got to talk about it, too.

Yes. And I will just say really quickly that I've done a whole bunch of these podcasts, and some of them you kind of flit on the surface, but just. Just your energy and your welcome, welcoming, you know, energy before we started recording and certainly when we got into it, just made me feel comfortable and I was like, oh, I want to toss this out to him because I actually want his input and thoughts on this. So, I mean, thank you for creating the space. And I think that is the catalyst to some of these kinds of conversations.

That's great. Well, I'm going to encourage our audience because we're still recording. So for the audience, I'm going to say, if you like this, please like it. If you loved it, you know, liked it enough to go, wow, yeah, I could like it. Could you share it and keep the conversation going? So please like and there. Please find Emily Sander on LinkedIn. Please also go to NextLevel. Coach, my guest today. I'm so glad we got a chance to meet and to do this, Emily Sander. And thank you for being here.

Thank you, Dr. P. Alrighty.

This is a one sharp sword cutting through to what Matters Most. I'm your host, Dr. P. Dr. Wayne Purnell, the exponential success coach and the president of Dynamic Leader. Again, please like and share our podcast. We want to get. We want to get the word out there and you as the audience member with your finger on the button, you're the one to do that for us. So thanks so much. We'll see you here next week.

Thank you for listening to One Sharp sword cutting through to what Matters Most with your host, Dr. P. Dr. Wayne Purnell, the breakthrough success coach and your powerful presence, mental.