Interview with Hugh Ballou

Welcome to One Sharp Sword cutting through to what Matters Most with your host, Dr. P, Dr. Wayne Purnell, the breakthrough success coach and your powerful presence mentor.

Welcome to One Sharp Sword cutting through to what Matters Most. I'm your host, Dr. P. Dr. Wayne Purnell, the Exponential Success coach and the president of Dynamic Leader Incorporated. Today I have someone really special. I always have special people. This gentleman is. Is amazing with his background. He has blended orchestra conducting with leadership. He's got. Well, combined, we have about 75 years of. Of leadership. He's got about 35 years of leadership experience along with orchestra conducting and blending the concepts of what it means to lead a group through musical mayhem and into leadership. Like what? How do you bring all these notes together? I'm going to stop talking. I'm going to bring on Hugh Blue. Welcome to the program. Welcome to One Sharp Sword.

Thank you, Wayne. I'm so pleased to be here.

I am so pleased to have you here. You didn't wake up one day and say, I'm using a magic wand. You've got a baton tucked in there somewhere. I'm going to conduct. Very few people wake up and do that. They get captured somehow. And when they find out that there's a way of making things come together, what was your path to music? And then what was your path to conducting?

You know, people often say, well, what does a conductor know about leadership? And I get to say, I'm a conductor. I know about leadership. One of my corporate programs is called Conducting Transformation How Leaders Orchestrate Success. And, you know, like, I know, Wayne, that leadership is one of the most misunderstood words in the English language. So let's take the conductor model. The. The assumption for people who are not conductors, which is probably 99.9% of the population, perceives the conductor to be a dictator. All right, I've assembled a union orchestra, and I step on the podium and I got this little white stick we call a baton. I can't make anybody do anything. But what I can do is influence people. Because of my competency, because of my clearness of direction, I'm really clear. And because of my painting the picture of where we're going to go. The leader is an influencer. The leader must be able to articulate their vision and mission and say, here's where we're going. Follow me. But we. It's useless to say, follow me if you don't give them a reason to follow me. And I wrote an article for Coral Conductors magazines one time, and I said, here's five dumb things. That conductors say it acquires, number one is watch the director. Well, come on, they know that you don't need to tell them something they already know. Plus, did you give them a reason to watch? So the model of the conductor of building high performing teams comes from. That's my picture in the background. It's me from my better side, of course, of my back. And. And on my music stand is a music score. Everything's going to happen is on that. And everybody in the chorus, everybody in the orchestra has their version. So if you transpose all those concepts into corporate boardroom or nonprofit board, the music score is your strategic plan. Everything's written down. It's a pathway to where you're going. And everybody in the culture has their part. We call it an action plan. So we have the to dos. And so we've eliminated the confusion and the, the, the. The ensemble that music groups build because they work together, they listen together, they rehearse for excellence, we move it into the other non musical arena. That's synergy. So my company is called Centervision. I've trademarked the synergy we build in our culture from a common vision. And I meet leaders all the time that really can't tell me what their vision is. And no wonder. And we tend to blame other people for the problems that we inadvertently set up. So there's a lot of correlation. Except in the orchestra and the choir. Our shortcomings show up instantly in corporate America. It takes a while and it costs a lot of money before people notice. So my job is to alert people to hear the gaps. Here's what you do about it, and here's why it's important. So it was a long path. So I served churches for 40 years and I served mega churches. And I defined after working in one of these, that 10%. 10% of my job was music as music director. 90% was all the infrastructure that made that 10% possible. So the below 1090 rule is our product or service in business or what we do in our nonprofit is 10% of our organization. 90% is what makes that possible. And that 90% is what most leaders are blind to. So, Wayne, it was learning running systems and then people coming to me and saying, would you help us with that? So I sort of backed into this. I study with the best conductors in the world, the best leaders, the best facilitators, the best coaches. So I'm equipped because I've learned from the best. But that doesn't matter if you don't use it and improve on it. So that's kind of a long answer to your short question.

Yeah, there are a couple more questions that, that have come up as you're speaking there, Hugh. I, I'm fascinated. So I didn't know there was conducting school. Like you learn from other conductors. Just talk a little bit about your personal history, the path. How did you get into music? I think that's always interesting to, you know, to kind of reveal the human behind the leader. And so how'd you get into music? Also, then you said something that was really, really important. And I want you to go deeper in this. Okay, so this is a two part question. One, who are you? A little bit. And two, you said give them a reason to follow you. What's your reason? Like when you bring a group together, what's. What is the reason? Is it the vision? Is it the. Like what lights people up? So, so start with you, then land in. What's the reason?

What's the reason that is so good?

I said start with you.

Start with why? Yeah, why start with you. Yes.

What, what got you here? What got you here? Seriously, like you grew up where and what was your first instrument? I'm serious. Like I want to know. And as, as I have listeners that are, happen to be human, they have a human path and they've struggled with things along the way. So did you find out you were like really good at instruments early on? Like, what was your first and, and where did you go with it?

I was 7 and my mom says you're going to take piano lessons. She also said you're going to take art lessons. Now all of a sudden I didn't go back to art lessons. I guess the teacher must have told my mom, never mind. But the piano teacher and let me go. And you know, Wayne, I was not very good. And this was during the time when Elvis Presley was so popular. I never listened to the pop music, rock music and people would do jokes and I wouldn't get them because I was listening to Beethoven and Mozart and Schubert and as a kid I just, just ate that up. And so I, I decided I would apply to music school. I went to Georgia State College at the time. And that's that place. It probably shouldn't have let me in. They probably shouldn't have graduated, but they did. And I applied myself in the first, first quarter music school. I saw this note on the bulletin board. You know, we need a choir director at this church and it's a hundred dollars a month and that was a gold mine in 1964 age here. So I took it. Now, Wayne, I had never been in a choir, studied piano, took music theory, was in. Was in undergraduate program for her music. But I learned it, I went in, we learned it. So 40 years later, this is a little, little choir in a little church. I started at a unity church in Atlanta with a handful of choir members. Ended up in Atlanta at a 12,000 member church with 750 people in the music program and CEOs a major company. So I worked my way there circuitously. I had a little interruption in Atlanta. I got drafted in the army, but I found my way to working in music in the army. They gave me an mos of photographer, but there wasn't any work.

So.

So I found another job and did a concert series, did a whole bunch of amazing things, did the first production of Jesus Christ Superstar in the world before it went to Broadway. So I just. The real secret of learning and excelling as a leader is hanging with the best people. And I tell people that I work with, if you're the best person on your team, get a new team or run like hell, because you're not going to. You know, if you're pulling people up, that's the wrong model. If you're guiding people who are very competent, if they're better than you, they can take your vision, which is yours, you never give up control of that. They'll take your vision and do a better job than you could do. But there's the synergy and the culture. So if I step on a podium, I've conducted in Europe, I've conducted South America, Central America. It's. There's a commonality. One of my clients did competitions of choirs around the world. And there's 400 choirs that come together. There's. They have the same language, they have the same understanding of culture because we've defined the culture. So if I don't treat the orchestra right, they're going to get even in performance. There's a thing in the military, if your platoon doesn't respect you, you're liable to get shot in the back in combat or. Well, there's corporate leaders that get shot in the back every day and they don't even know it. The lack of performance is the lack of respect or the lack of clarity or the lack of community. The synergy I was talking about, which actually costs corporate America half a trillion dollars in wasted profits every year. And it's immense. And leaders are blind to it. So our blind spots are what we uncover and what I give people. People need me because they have Hidden potential, they have untapped potential, they have blind spots, they know something that's blocking them. But the reason that I take people on as coaching clients or strategic planning and team, team building, culture creation, any of those pieces is if they are aware that they need to learn something. And that that filters out a lot of people. So the people I get to work with are only those people competent enough to know they don everything. And you might think that's obvious, but there's 90% of people think, oh, I did leadership, I know it, I don't need to work on it. Which makes them dangerous. The people that say, you know, things are working well, but I know I can do better, I want somebody to help me as a confidential advisor. So those are people that know they need me. And then because they're able to answer some questions, that I'm going to step up, I'm going to listen, I'm going to apply what we work out together. Because, you know, leaders really never should tell anybody what to do. Coaches listen and give suggestions, give feedback, but once you tell somebody what to do, you've weakened that person on your team. You should tell them what you expect, ask them how they're going to get there, and then you mentor. Telling what to do is micromanaging, which never worked. It works less today. Mentoring always works because you're transferring subject matter expertise to the person has their expertise to make it happen. So we want to work through other people and go back to the culture of the choir, the orchestra. It's very clear how we perform, where we're going and how things happen. And leaders need to look at how things happen. We look at what happens, but how does it happen? And so the next time you go to an orchestral concert or boom, there's a very clear protocol, they're in place. And that's the same for rehearsals. When it's time to go, they've been in place, they're ready to go. Concert master mistress comes up, they tune, they're ready to go. The conductor comes, lifts the baton. They already know what's supposed to happen because they've prepared. Boom. And in that first year, I also a job at a camera store because I had interest photography. And then after I got out of the army, I saw a little camera store in Beer Beach, Florida for sale, and I bought it. It was doing $12,000 a year, and I took it in 10 years to 1.45 million. That's back when film was $5 a roll and the somatic cameras are $20. So I had never run a business, I had never directed a choir, even though I had a music degree. There's very specific things about those, but I do know and when I was in my graduate program 26 years later in the lab choir, most of the people were computer programmers. And I said, this doesn't make sense, it's a music group. And they said, sure it does. Music and programming, computer programming have rigid structure. You cannot violate the rules. At the same time, you need to be creative within that structure. So I was 50 years old before I realized that I had this right brain, left brain synergy which a lot of people do not have. They're either way right or way left and they don't know how to combine them. So bottom line, my journey was learning how to take my hidden potential and manifest it into reality. And I had to do it the hard way. I didn't have any coaches, I didn't have any mentors. So I built the business. I went from my career to very small 120 member church to 12,000. It was the biggest. We were on TV every day in Atlanta, so it was a big jump. But success is where preparation meets opportunity. And Wayne, I, I'm a speaker, I'm a keynote speaker, I'm a workshop leader. I, people introduced me as a leadership expert and I used to say, now I'm a leadership student, which is true. But I now say yes, I'm an expert. I'm old enough to admit that yes, I've made the mistakes and I've learned from them. So part of these, this journey has been a learning opportunity. So my conversation with people and if at this point of life I don't market, people come to me and say, you know, I want some of what you got. And then we explore what that is and what they think they want to accomplish. So the why of hubalou is people want to be better. They want to tap their potential and grow their potential and they're willing to learn and they see me. This confidential advisor is a guide and we work. I have clients at Four continents and we don't really work. We have a good time making a difference in the organizations they lead. So I have a business, the Centervision. I have a 501c3 tax exempt organization, Centervision Leadership foundation. And our motto is transforming leaders, transforming organizations, transforming lives. I don't care if you're running a religious organization or community charity or a multinational business. What we do brings value to people. So ultimately we, we all are transforming the human experience.

You are listening to one sharp sword cutting through to what matters most. With your host, Dr. Wayne Purnell. You know you are bigger than the life you are leading. It really is time to attend to that thing you've wanted to do or have but you've been putting off. It's time to step into that dream. You've parked for someday. It's time to claim true well being both personally and professionally without giving up the success that got you here. It's time to check out Dr. Purnell's signature small group retreat, the Exponential Success Summit. Explore exponential success summit.com Seats are extremely limited as this is a very special small group event. Www.exponentialsuccesssummit.com

so you said a couple of things that I absolutely want to bring and bridge to how people can use some of this information in their personal lives. You talked about performance, clarity and community and how those blend together. And, and so I would love for you to take that into. I'm going to give you again two things to talk about. One is that, and I love your list, your framework. You have four or five steps or four or five key areas that include clarity. That's, I think, step number two

if

I, if I'm remembering what I'm reading or what I've read. And then the other thing you said, which I think is actually great parenting advice, is state your expectations and mentor. Like, if you are in the place of telling people what to do, you're going to get pushback, man. I don't want to do that me. Right? And you get the, you get the obstreperous adolescent who pushes back. And, and instead of here's the expectation and here's how I do it.

Right.

Here's how there are multiple ways of doing it. You have your own way. I can show you mine. And I think that that is a really great way. You know, you use that in leadership. I think it's a beautiful model for leaders. I think it's a beautiful model for parents and for adult humans anywhere, actually, to be able to say, this is my expectation when you're around me. And I believe I'm a good model for that. If you want, tap into me.

Yeah, we tend to criticize people and say, where did you like you criticize your children? Where did you learn that? And as soon as you say it, you go, whoops. You know, we, the culture is a reflection of the leader. If the orchestra or the choir is not doing what I expect, the first thing I do is do a self assessment. Am I showing them If I'm doing conducting in a real jagged manner, they're going to sing that way. If it's the legato, beautiful piece, you don't want to. You don't want to model that. You want to model the grace and the length of the lines and the flow of the music. You want to model that. And even though they can read music and they can see what it says, we do inspire them to step up to another level. So let me kick up the list to a bigger base. It's Hughes Four leadership principles. And you can take these to the bank. I've been using them for years. And I don't care if you got a little mom and pop business or you're running, running the Red Cross in the world, or you're running a big multinational corporation. It's the same. Leadership is leadership. And it doesn't matter what context. It just happens to be way more difficult in the smaller nonprofits than it is in the corporations. Because in the nonprofit world, that's a bad word anyway. But it's. We define ourselves by what we're not. You know, we are. We are for purpose business, and we are a charity that makes a difference in people's lives. There's a lot of ways. Social benefit corporation, where a lot of ways that we can define ourselves. But rethinking leadership is important. If you Google leadership, Google is a word for search. You come up with billions of results, most of which are somebody's fallacy. So fundamentally, leadership is influence. So my journey, I told you about the three things I've crystallized before. I go to my four principles. Your leader, if, number one, you get things done. I didn't know how to direct choir. I didn't know how to run a business. But I got it done because I figured out how to get it done. So you get it done because you figured out how or you know how. But I had to figure it out. And we are determined. If we're leaders, we make a difference. Other people, 97 people have a idea. I mean, 100 people have an idea. 97 don't do anything about it. Then only one of the three that do something are going to succeed. So it's that perseverance. Like Thomas Ederson said, 90% of people give up just before they would have succeeded. So perseverance and determination are part of it. Dedication and commitment to the mission you've defined. So, and then influence, you get things done. A leader gets things done. A leader knows how or figures out how it gets done. And we influence people Positively or negatively, or it's neutral. We get to decide. Now the framework for leadership. In my world, I've taken four principles that can be transposed into any setting. Number one, when I step on a rehearsal, if I step on the podium, I am ready. So the number one is know the score. Everything about where we're going, I'm ready because for every hour of rehearsal, I spent two to three hours preparing. So I, I, I know where we're going. I know how we're going to get there. If that didn't work, I know the alternate path. So that leadership principle in a generic sense is the foundation. We can articulate our vision. We have the skills to make it happen. So that's the, the first pillar. We have the strategy. The strategy defines what people are going to do. The second one, I don't hire poor musicians. I hire the best musicians. I am so surprised when people hire mediocre people in their organization and some of them, because they have a fragile ego and they don't want to be challenged. And so we hire the best is the second one. So this is about relationships. Fundamentally, leadership is about relationships. Communication is about relationships. People don't buy from you unless you've created a relationship. Donors don't donate to your charity unless you've created the relationship. So the key here, if we're going to create a culture, I had, I had to have in my big church in Atlanta with 200 people in that one choir and 550 in the other choirs. I had to have a big mass because it was a big room and we needed a big mass of people. I knew every single person. I never had lunch alone in all the time I would. 40 years I was doing this work. And when I called on people to do something, they responded because they knew it was important, it fulfilled our mission and because we had a relationship and they trusted me and respected me. You can't demand that you earn that. So the foundation, you've got the way forward, you've got the vision, you've got the pathway. You've written it down. It's not a dream. Here's your goals. Now, it tells you which people to hire. So in your strategy and your planning, you've defined the specific competencies that you need on your team. And then you make sure that you're aligned with values and vision and principles so that we're working together. In this culture, orchestra culture, people are there because they want to, they understand the culture, and their purpose is to make great music together requires everybody's Participation. Third one is rehearse for success. So Wayne, I bet you've attended plenty of boring, unproductive meetings. I know I have. I know I used to even conduct some and I've conducted bad rehearsals. So the model here is if you have a bad rehearsal, you're going to have a bad concert. People do bad meetings and they expect good results. When we're training people in this mediocrity because we're under functioning and we're underperforming, we're also.

I'll chime in here with. Yeah, people say practice makes perfect. And it's actually perfect. Practice makes perfect. Because if you're practicing poorly, you're gonna get poor results. And you're.

Yeah, thank you for that. Thank you for that. And that's a little, a little difference with a big impact if that difference is. So the third one is rehearse. This is about your systems. So we have bad meanings. That's the number one team killer. I've, you know, people even making good salaries don't want to go to meetings because it's wasting their time. So if we, we just turn it around and we make meetings productive. So you've got your strategy to find the competencies you needed. Now you don't put them in a system where they can't do what you want them to do. And we do, as leaders, we cause problems because we set up conflict, we set up expectations, we over function for things that we want them to do. And we tell intelligent people in marketing that we hired how to market and we're not a marketer. This just, I see. This is rampant. So the leader think it's the boss thing, which backwards spelled backwards is double sob. You don't tell people what to do because you set up unintentionally, you set up problems, then we blame other people. So the foundation, you know where you're going, you can articulate it, you can inspire people and you can lead people to. You have to lead the right people in the right seats, on the right bus.

And I want to pause you, I want to pause you for a second because yes, sir, there's a bunch of great stuff coming out of your mouth. So one of the things is we as leaders. And you've seen it in plenty of organizations. I've seen it in plenty of organizations. It's like, well, I'm telling them what to do, but the leaders get into their own way and they, you know, one of my, one of my guests on the podcast at one point said that the leader's job is to remove friction. And I love that concept because we, we've seen, you and I in our, in our consulting various organizations around the world, that leaders will often create systems that stop individuals from being at their best. If you're, if you're conducting and the risers aren't supportive or, you know, the music stands, there aren't enough. So share, you know, if there's not enough of something or if they're in the wrong place or if they're not comfortable, you're gonna get a cacophony. You're not gonna get the harmony and blending that you need and the best out of your people.

Yes, absolutely. And perfect. We're never perfect, but we want to rehearse excellence.

Yes. Oh, I love that. Rehearse excellence is such a great statement.

You build in the low functioning, the high functioning in your systems, the annual evaluation. Oh, it's broken. Meetings, they're broken. And communication, it's broken. It's based on relationship and clarity of transfer of information. And we want to send somebody an email knowing full well that the research says 7, 7, 7% of a communication is the words. But we send something devoid of all the others, just the words, and we expect people to get it. And so we set up problems. Now, you talked about friction. That's how you start fires. You know, scouts, we used to make a fire with flint and steel. You don't necessarily want to start fires. But we do, Wayne. We do set up conflict. And actually we shy away from it as well. And conflict is a sign of energy. We don't ever resolve it because we want the energy. We manage the conflict in a creative way. It's a creative tool. And so if we learn to build consensus where everybody has input but you get to say, okay, I've heard it all. Here's where we're going as a leader. And you built a relationship, and they've built the relationship with one another in this brainstorming activity. And maybe, just maybe, if you're a listener, you know, God gave you two ears, two eyes and one mouth. You listen with these, these, and you talk with that. Why don't you then have the ratio of one to five, use five different elements, listen first, because you might learn something. And in the process, you're building a different kind of relationship with your team, and they're building a relationship with each other. So we're a former of consensus. That's what harmony is in the orchestra, if you don't like even jazz, people think it's all made up well, it is improvised. It's a really creative medium. But you don't, you don't stray from the chord structure. You play the wrong chords, you're not invited back. You play a solo, it's not your turn, you're not coming back. If you play really loud and it's way overbearing, you're not coming back. So there's a protocol of how we function together as a culture. And all of that can be transposed into a non musical setting. We listen, we pay attention, we build this harmony together. So let me get to the fourth one. I bet you're wondering what that fourth pillar we got, the foundation. Where are you going? Can you say it? Can you lead it? Be the people you're going to lead? Now you get a team because, well, ideally, but if you already got a team, you work on that strategy together. And then with the team, you talk about how they're going to do it. That's where you mentor people and help them correct the how to. But then you multitask through your team. And then the systems make sure there's good systems for reporting, for giving course correction. And here's where even power leaders back off. They don't want to make a course correction. Now I'm running an orchestra. I've hired these very competent union musicians and they got the attitude. And I'm, who's this guy with a little stick? So we're rehearsing in Ukraine, when I did this big thing with 100 orchestra and 200 singers, we're doing this powerful masterwork. They didn't even speak English, but we had the Italian that we had in common. All the, all the expressions were in Italian. And I had a translator. But you stop, you say, trumpets, it's too loud. Take it down one dynamic level. Let's go again. Well, somebody's working and it's too loud or it's out of order. We want to identify the issue. The trumpets didn't feel attacked. I didn't say, you're bad people. I said, it's too loud. And if I had not done that, which many leaders don't make the course correction. Everybody else is seeing you as a poor leader because you didn't deal with it. I didn't insult them. They expect. I'm in the front, I can hear the balance. They're in the back. They're playing a loud instrument. They can't hear the balance. It's my job. So we shy away from conflict, which actually makes it worse.

Now, number four, what would you. What would you call that because it

sounds value the rest value the rests. Beethoven did this big mass missiles limits with hundreds of people. And it's just got this impossibly loud, fast, difficult music. Music. Suddenly it incomes a big cadence and there's silence. It's called a grand pause in music. Then this ethereal violin on an overtone coming out of heaven. That pause was punctuation. That pause wasn't just absence of sound. It clarified what happened before and it set up the next emphatic moment. If so this is about balance. This makes all the others work. I meet people who brag about working seven days a week, 15 hour days, haven't taken a vacation. Like it's a good thing. If you're burned out and you are overworked, you're not as much good to your organization. And we over function because we think we should when in fact we're compromising our work which compromises the whole, whole organization's work and everybody in it. So this one makes the other three work. Foundation, relationships, systems and then balance. So it's, it's important to care for self. Jim Rohn said the famous speaker and trainer said work on yourself harder than you work on your business. And that is a key point right here. Continue. Plan time on your calendar to rest. Plan time on your calendar to think. Plan time on your calendar to evaluate. Plan time on your calendar to visit with people. Steve Jobs was a walk around leader. Where you liked him or not. He knew people, he interfaced with people. He was a walk around guy. So this is an important one.

They're all important, aren't they? I love how you say, I love how you say this is an important one.

Well, it's the, it's one that'll kill the rest if you don't do it.

Well. I love. What I loved was the pause. It was like this is an important one. I love that. Right, because, because you need time for things to sink in as well, you know. And I've done work with leaders. I, I appreciate you brought up. 7% of our communication is the words. That's, that's work by Albert moravian out of UCLA from the 60s where his work was actually about likability. And so 55% is in your, is in your body language and your facial expression and 38% is in your tonality. By the way, did you know that if you are monotone and when you go to emphasize something as monotone, if you get louder monotone, it makes you sound angry. That's a strange thing. And it's something that many people don't even know that they're monotone. So add a little melody to the way you're talking. Punctuate when you're having to send an email, which is, which is only the words. And 7% of the communication is the words. Yeah, punctuation counts and resting to allow things to sink in. So good.

And the equivalent to yelling in an email is all caps, all caps, all cap.

It makes nothing. Right. So if everything is urgent and this is a, it's a huge leadership lesson. If everything is urgent, nothing's urgent. Right. Because if everything comes at you, that's, you've got to do this. It's like, oh, he's yelling again.

I want to point out to listeners, viewers that Wayne Pernell model has modeled several really valuable leadership traits in this interview. He listens, he highlights, he goes for intent. It's active listening. And you, you didn't jump. I mean, you interrupt me because you had, you wanted to highlight something. But otherwise you listen and then respond, which is a rare trait. When I studied coaching, they taught me, wait three seconds before you respond. That's a long time. But in that three seconds that affirms you've heard somebody and it gives you a chance to think and it tells you, it tells them you care about what you're listening to. So kudos to Wayne. You're, you're, you've isolated some important things and you've, you, you've lifted up some really important things, like the silence, the pause, the listening. It's. Important things happen there.

Very much so. Thanks for pointing that out. Appreciate that. Let's, let's talk about how people can contact you and if there's something we've left out. What I didn't ask you so kind of what are some of the, some of the things that you really hope that you would have conveyed during our time together and how do people find you?

Sure, we can cover the things I haven't covered in the next three hours of this interview, but for now, for now, you can just summarize thing if people go my name is Hugh Ballou, which is my website hubalou.com but a shortcut. If you want to know about Hugh, go to about hugh.com is that easy enough about hu.com and you'll find there you'll find me in my penguin suit, but you'll also find a click as a Forbes article that explains what I do. You'll find my cell phone, my email and the calendar. You could book a meeting with me if you want to brainstorm. I don't sell on those because as a coach and a, and a consultant, we don't sell. It's the wrong paradigm. We explore if people need something, if it's a fit. So about Hugh.com and Wayne, here's a gift is a free, absolute free. I don't even know who they, who goes there. If people at any level want to step up, I don't think this next level thing works. You want to go all the way and you want to do it stepwise. Go to betterleader.me better leader.me 31 days to becoming a better leader. And there's, there's a refresher for people that are already good in the trenches. And it might be I forgot that I knew that. Or it might be I didn't realize that was a part of leadership. Or it might be, oh, that's a new way to think about this. So there's five minute sessions for 31 days that could have some strategic impact on people's lives. Betterleader Me.

Fantastic. All right, so three websites to remember and they will all be in the show. Notes first about Hugh.com and Hugh, for those that haven't ever spelled that, it's not hue, like the color. It's H u g h. So Hugh Ballou B A L-L-O-U.com is also H U G-H-B-A-L-L-O-U.Com is also a place to visit. And then for a 31 day, 5 minutes a day for 31 days to improve your own leadership. And that's in your own life and with your teams, with your family. Start with you, you know, start with yourself. That's, that's how you improve. So betterleader Me and fantastic. Those all three will be in the show. Notes for you, Hugh. So and for, for our audience. Thank you.

Well, and all of this, I've been doing this for way a lot of years and I'm, I'll be 78 this year. If people are listening to this episode. We're in the early part of 2024. You could be listening in another year. But one thing that's remained consistent in my 78 years is leadership and the lack of knowledge about leadership and the myths about leadership and what I've learned from a writer that I respect, Richard Rohr, he says how we do anything is how we do everything.

Very good. Absolutely right. And that means if you're practicing, sloppy, if you let things go for yourself, if you, if you commit to something and then tell yourself it's just not that important. That thing, I can let it go. Today. That's a huge leadership lesson because you're teaching your subconscious that you can lie and get away with it. And so integrity is everything. And it starts with yourself. So I'm a huge believer. It's one of the first things I teach as a, as a leadership coach as well, is how you do anything. Is how you do everything. Good. One nice place to to wrap this up. About Hugh.com HueBalue.com and BetterLeader me three places to visit. Hugh Ballou are our master conductor. Thank you for joining us today.

Thank you, Wayne. It was such a great joy to be interviewed by a good interviewer. Thank you for inviting me.

Very good. Thanks again for being here. My guest today, Hugh Ballou, conductor and leadership coach with over three and a half decades of doing leadership work. Amazing. I am. And this is this is one sharp sword cutting through to what matters most. I'm Dr. P. Dr. Wayne Purnell, the executive, the executive coach, the exponential leadership, Exponential success coach. At some point, I'll get it right. The exponential success coach and the president of Dynamic Leader Incorporated. Again, one sharp sword cutting through to what matters most. Please like and share this. Please comment on this. We want to spread the word more and more and more and you get to make that happen. Thanks again for being here. We'll see you here next week.

Thank you for listening to One Sharp sword cutting through to what Matters Most with your host, Dr. P. Dr. Wayne Purnell, the breakthrough success coach and your powerful presence, mental.