Interview with John Rossman

Welcome to One Sharp Sword Cutting through to what Matters Most with your host, Dr. P. Dr. Wayne Purnell, the breakthrough success coach and your powerful presence mentor.

Welcome to One Sharp Sword Cutting through to what Matters Most. I'm your host, Dr. P. Dr. Wayne Purnell, the exponential success coach and the president of Dynamic Leader Incorporated. Today, special day, I feel like I'm so blessed to be able to do a podcast and bring in amazing people time after time after time. I have with me a. Somebody who's been with Amazon at the executive level, wrote a book called the Amazon Way and a new book coming out and just has so much to say, so many insights about leadership, about business, about innovation, and I'm going to let him tell us more. Welcome to the Show, John Rossman.

Dr. P. Been great to get to know you. Thank you for welcoming me.

Yes, pleasure. It's really great to have you here. I'm really excited you've. Your world is one of approaching wrangling, diving into and making simple the complex problems. Like, we approach business. Like, oh, my gosh, this is going to be, you know, there's so many things and you're like, yeah, and we get to innovate in order to make it simple. Right?

Yeah. You know, I always tell my, my team and my clients, like, dissatisfied customers and business problems are a gift. Right. They're a signal to us on something that we can act on, something that we can improve upon. And when you see problems in that angle, it, it gives you a bit more lift and a bit more energy to like, okay, yeah, let's, let's do something about this instead of just, you know, complaining about the current state, which is, which is what a lot of leaders and companies do.

A lot of leaders do push back against the. That's just a small segment who's dissatisfied. And you've, you've treaded into a territory that's precious to me, which is curiosity. You didn't say it yet. I assume you will. The whole idea about, well, if somebody's dissatisfied, you don't judge them. Stay curious, like, open to that. What is it about them, their perception, their user experience that has them not giving us nines and tens. Right, right, right.

Yeah. So I was an early leader at Amazon. I launched the Marketplace business in 2002 and.

Wait, you don't get to say it like that. Oh, I launched the marketplace business. It's like you, right? You launched a marketplace business.

It was a team effort. Yes. I played a key role in leading that. It was a big bet for Amazon. So this is in 2002. And what people forget was what Amazon was like back in 2002. We were being referred to as Amazon.com, amazon bomb, Amazon.org because we obviously didn't know how to make money. We were being doubted. The stock was $5. We didn't really know if we were going to survive. But what I respect so much about Bezos and about Amazon leadership was they were patient about the things they needed to be patient on. They had a sense of urgency about the things that were in their control that they could act on today. They were steady at the helm. We listened to our critics, but you don't overreact to the critics and the business. I launched the marketplace business. There were so many naysayers, so many doubters that Amazon should do this. Internal naysayers at the board level, external naysayers. But Bezos knew that it was critical that Amazon expand beyond books, music, video, and that we couldn't do it as a first party retailer, meaning buying inventory, selling inventory. We had to do it through third parties and we had to keep it in line with the Amazon brand and the Amazon customer promise. And solving for that was actually really, really hard to do. But once we got super clear about what we were trying to solve for what that would entail, then the path became a lot clearer. And I left Amazon in late 2005, started working with my clients on solving hard problems, strategy, digital transformation. And one of my clients at the Gates foundation came to me one day and he goes, John, you do a nice job of delicately taking principles and tactics from Amazon and inserting them into our work, not in a heavy handed way, but in a delicate way. And he goes, I think you ought to write a book about it. And so the smartest thing I did was I talked him into being my partner on these books. And so we released the first edition of the Amazon Way in 2014. We've done three releases of it. And it really is kind of my story from Amazon and the leadership stories. It's a very approachable book. It's not a huge book and whatnot,

but you could hold it up.

Okay, all right, all right.

John is holding up his book, the Amazon Way. It is approachable and it's Amazon's 14 principles. Right. Of leadership.

Leadership principles. But the story is always like, it's not about Amazon, it's about you and what you can learn from a company like Amazon about how to be thoughtful. And I use the word systematic. Systematic about the culture and leadership that you build In a company. In the latest edition of the Amazon Way, I wrote a new appendix. And the appendix is about building your own leadership principles. And the number one suggestion in there is a, be deliberate, but B, etchemagello, meaning don't just rush to codify them and say, these are our leadership principles. The other thing is you need to make them differentiated. Meaning don't, don't do the obvious and easy things like, you know, be a good person and like, yes, we're not going to break laws like assume, assume the common sense things. But what is it that's really going to allow you to differentiate your business and your culture from what the standard might be? Because if you can gain alignment on like how we're different, that gives you a basis to compete and it gives you the basis to really define and use your culture as an asset to win in business.

I love so much of this. This is awesome. The Etch in Jello is so important. I have 11 personal and professional values. I have blended them because I own my business, right? So if I, if my business values are different from my personal values, I'm in trouble. Right? And one of them is, is forthrightness. So a lot of people will put in, well, honesty, integrity. And for me, forthrightness is my word, is my contract. And sometimes, sometimes there are external factors or new information that causes a need to pivot. And so it's like, this is not a squishy, wishy washy, oh, well, you said this, but you did that. It's, you said this, you did that. I understand that between that there was new information that made you do that, which is why I love etch it in Jello. It's so good.

Well, you know, when I hear forthrightness, what I hear is you're going to speak what you believe.

Exactly.

And as you pointed out, the willingness to change your mind on something is an absolute killer leadership capability.

Like if you need that across the

country now to change, to take in new information, to learn and to assess and to change your perspective on something. Well, it's really difficult to actually make progress on a, on an ill defined path. Right. If the path is super defined, then maybe you don't need to change your mind quite as much. But if the path is a wandering journey, which in my business, innovation, true innovation, always is a wandering journey, well then the whole game is about how to process new information as quickly as possible, create tests and then decide what to do. And Bezos had this great line one time, he goes, sometimes you need to be fixed on your strategy and flexible on your tactics. But sometimes the strategy is actually wrong and understanding the difference between those two and when do you need to keep going at something but adjust your tactics versus hey, this concept just isn't working out. The strategy is actually wrong. That is really sophisticated self awareness that that takes.

I see that as, I see strategy as, as being sort of distance focused. Like you've climbed the mountain, you can see where you're going and because you can see the terrain, you create tactics to get there. But if you like move to another part of the mountain and you see something different, you've got to adjust your tactics. So.

Absolutely. Yeah. I mean, you know, I think that there's kind of, you know, long term strategy you're talking about and, and shorter term strategy. And the best short term strategies are always problem face, focus. What are the problems in our business? What are our customers saying? Why aren't they satisfied? Or why aren't all of them satisfied? Why aren't we as operationally efficient as we should be? How do we get to a cost advantage business model? And if you attack, let's say over a year, 18 month period strategy as a problem focused endeavor that is aligned with your mission and longer term strategy, right to win, right to play perspectives, then you really are able to make harder choices, better choices about resource allocation and what are we going to do versus what aren't we going to do so that you can make decisive resource commitments and decisive moves in order to win. And that, that is at the heart of what I help my clients do is understand those, what the problem is, what their hypothesis is for fixing it, and make decisive decisions about what to do and whatnot.

It's so important to have the hypothesis because part of that is to prove it wrong. Right.

Well, and it recognizes I use the word bets a lot. Right. Hypothesis is kind of a fancy hold

up your new book because that was a great time. It's a great segue.

All right, so this is the essence of the book, which is when you use the word hypothesis or bet, it signals to everybody I think this is a good idea, but I'm not positive. Right. And so then we can have a great debate about, well, A do we agree on what the problem is? B, do we agree on what the hypothesis for the future state is? D, can we create a fast path towards testing that hypothesis? We call that in the book a big bet vector. And then everything starts operating correctly relative to the beta. There's so many problems that go on here. One of them is our Language. Because what tends to happen in companies is they, they call these initiatives or projects. But the problem is that's an overloaded term, right? A project can be both something that we understand really well and it should work versus a bet is something that we know has inherent risk, but yet we use the same language. So they all get lumped together. People's expectations around them are not managed correctly. And we, we, we aren't playing the game of innovating, which is very different than the game of operating in a business.

I want to come back to language. I want to. Because I think from my perspective in, in doing management consultation, leadership development, that kind of stuff that the people get when, when we get problem focused, we get problem focused and Right. And so it doesn't leave room for true resolution or solution focus. It's like diving deeper into the problem. What caused this and then what caused that and what caused this? And people forget that. No, no, we are after this outcome. And at some point the why of the problem doesn't really matter. And by the way, that's the work of, of your mind state as well. At some point, it's why I left traditional psychology. At some point, the why doesn't matter. You've got to get to who do you want to be right? And that is, that's a, that's an identity issue, both for the individual as well as for the organization.

Well, as you and I were talking about beforehand, you know, the, the coaching and the advisory I do is kind of, you know, outer core, like, hey, here's some management things you need to do differently to create this, this system of innovation and helping them solve their problems.

I'm smiling here because it's so understated. What you just did was like, hey, here's some things to look at. Like, you are so brilliant in being able to go into an organization and, and go, hey, here's some things you might want. It's like, look at these. You actually put a spotlight on.

Well, I mean, back to curiosity, right? And so one of the first and the most famous of the Amazon leadership principles is about customer obsession. And that really sets up, I think, the curiosity, the willingness to explore, the willingness to ask harder, deeper questions, the willingness to challenge your own beliefs and status quo because a, you're asking it about the external entity who you're there to service. And I think that's always helpful because that gives you critical feedback, critical signals as to, well, you know, the job to be done is to solve this problem for the customer and for whatever reason we aren't winning enough, they aren't satisfied enough, they aren't referring us enough. And really being willing to be curious more, not just about, well why today am I not winning? But looking upstream and downstream and having more empathy and data driven insights for that customer is really the path of the innovator. How did Amazon, a book, music video, first party retailer in 25 years, which is a pretty short period of time, develop into this conglomerate business? Well, it's really by being curious about customers and asking them systematically like oh what, what problem do they have? What how could I solve it? Using the unique things that Amazon tends to focus on. And that's a big part of the path of how they, they have created what I think is the most interesting and most disruptive business model out there. And they don't do it to be disruptive, it just is because they do things differently and they solve problems differently than most other businesses and leaders are willing to do.

I think they do do the disruption part deliberately. I don't think they set out to crush small businesses deliberately.

We can have various conversations on that. Personally, I don't believe that they are competitive for this or they ever want to challenge, create, create inherent problems because of the business, but they just because of the way they approach business that is an outcome. And as I wrote the other new part of this latest edition of the Amazon Way was I wrote a recommendation to Amazon that I felt that they were at a point that they needed to make some adjustments and some of their, their handling of, of the public and the greater good. And, and I suggested a new leadership principle that I called the golden rule and kind of expanded upon the traditional golden rule because you know, they're no longer the, the, the, the startup scrappy entrepreneur organization when I was there. They are a company, the company of substance and they need, there are times when they don't always behave that way. Ironically, a couple of months after I released the book, Amazon did add two new leadership principles together. Kind of combined the spirit of what I was accomplishing in the one suggested leadership principle. I can't say that I influenced that, but the timing is a coincidence and everything. And so I do think that Amazon will continue to invent new customer experiences, will try things that don't work and will invest in ways that most companies won't invest.

Amazing.

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can you talk about Bezos's philosophy of Today is Day one?

Sure, absolutely. And obviously it's been a long time since I've been at Amazon, but the philosophy of Day one, it's, it's actually, it's ironically, it's not one of the Amazon's leadership principles, but it's, it's more of a philosophy that gets intertwined across all.

It's in the culture.

It is definitely in the culture. And what Day One is about is it talks about that we believe we've just started at the journey of the Internet and innovation and how technology can serve our lives and that Amazon is always going to be a company that looks to invest and exploit and take advantage of that versus pulling back and trying to resist the change and trying to optimize for the current state. And so it's essentially their rally cry for we are going to continue to invest and make business decisions that to other companies may seem weird and not the types of business decisions that they would make, all in the pursuit of long term growth and enterprise value and serving customers in new way versus a day two company which is more trying to harvest and optimized for kind of this, this phase in their journey, in their path and not as investing as much in the future.

I read the day two was sort of like, well, you've, you've approached the point of entropy. You're, you're now dissipating your energy and basically dying.

So unless a slow death. Yes, yes.

Yeah, yeah. So unless you're at day one and look, the reason I bring this up, John, is that I, I want our audience, our viewers, our listeners to really get a sense of how can I apply any of what I've heard to my personal life, to my business life. And the idea for me is if you can apply day one, when you wake up, it's like this is a new day. You get today to make, like to make the day anything you want it to be. And even if you have a job where you see the same people over and over it doesn't mean that you can't start a new relationship with them. Right. Approach them differently. Approach your, your lunch differently. It's like it's day one at a

company level, at a team level and at an individual level. I think of the playbook of being. What we're really good at is, tend to be good at is the continuous operations, doing the things that we need to do well and looking to optimize those things. What most companies, teams and individuals struggle with is doing something new. In business, we call that innovation. Right. As an individual, that could just be a skill attainment or learning something new. And what you realize in business is that you have to apply systems and thoughtful approaches and different techniques to those two playbooks. If you apply your operational excellence playbook to your innovation program, you will fail, guaranteed. And I think the same goes for the individual journey, which is if you know and you should be looking to like, hey, optimize and be excellent at the, at your mastery skills of today. But if you have that same expectation, if you don't invest the same time in learning new things, being willing to fail and be a beginner and, and, and, and not be great at it, to suck at something for a while, well, you're very limited in what you will learn new.

Yeah, yeah. This is. If you always do what you've always done, you'll always get what you've always got. And so for, for me, when I like, okay, so this is great. Everything you've got, everything you did got you here now. What, what do you want in your life two years out? Who do you need to become in order to have that in your life? And the same is true in business. Take a look at how your business developed. That's great, right? So that, I mean, this is your world. You said something earlier, like much earlier in, in our conversation, and I want to come back to it because it's like, wow. I, it's, it's subtle and so powerful. You talked about patience and urgency and you even made consistency. There's a thing that happens on Zoom these days if you make a gesture. I have not turned that off. So I was counting and my thumb was up and I got a thumbs up myself there.

I trigger that all the time.

Right? Okay. Patience, urgency, consistency. And what I wanted to come back to, this was subtle and so powerful urgency around the things that you can control. Because most people, and this is, I know you've seen, this is like, oh my gosh, we've got this terrible catastrophe that's happened in Our, in our business, in our organization, in our family, in our finances, in our health, whatever it is. Oh my gosh. And, and now there's a mad scramble and it is such a waste of energy. The urgency needs to be there. Yes, just.

Well, well, a couple of points. So I was a, after Amazon, I was a partner in a consulting firm, a turnaround in restructuring oriented consulting firm. And I got to participate in a few urgent situations. The thing that I believe in is that when things are good, teams tend to get complacent. That's when you need to create a sense of urgency. When there's a big issue, when there's a major problem. That's when leaders need to be, as they say, cool is the other side of the pillow. Really calm down. And what I noticed with the best restructuring leaders was they were, you know, like, hey, I'm on fire. But you'd never know it, right? Just super cool. And what you're always trying to do is calmly understand the problem path to resolution and what is your next best available move. Right.

You know,

and, and that is all you can focus on.

And so good.

Everything else is just wasted energy.

Next best available move is it's like what's your next best move?

And that's, and that's what you should have urgency on. But you need to, especially when it's really hot, when it, when it's, when it's either emotional or really impactful situation, you need to coolly dissect it. And that's the, that is the true ninja move. If you can have that type of control of yourself, of your organization. But again, like the other is true too, which is successful companies, those are always the ones that are at most risk because they lose that sense of urgency. So that's where you have to be creating urgency. And you do that through your metrics that you collect in your business. And zooming in on metrics that give you the signals of where you're disappointing customers where your operations aren't. And always raising the bar relative to your metrics. Never celebrating like, yeah, great, we hit our sla. No where didn't we hit our sla? So you're one of the killer. Define SLA for those a service level agreement. So it's a key metric where you set a bar that says we are always going to hit this bar at Amazon. One of the key SLAs was on time delivery metrics. Not disappointing customers was measured by an on time delivery metric. And what we always did was we measured the tail of where we would disappoint customers. And so we were always looking for a better than 99 percentile in on time delivery and always chasing that. That 0.1% or the 1% where we disappointed customers. Well, that is what the signals are that create urgency to continuously improve upon that. So.

Good. I. I just wanted to share something which was years and years ago. Okay. Decades ago, as a new manager in. In a health care organization, I was disciplined. I was in management. I was disciplined because I did not look worried enough about the statistics report that had just come out. I didn't look worried enough. And so senior leadership thought that I didn't care. And it's like, do I need to wring my hands, pull my hair out, shout at my team members? Is that what, what, like looking worried? Like, is that good leadership? No. Let me just reflect on what a good course of action would be.

Right, Right. And. And actually understanding and doing something about what's important. That is what leadership is about, Correct?

Yeah. Versus, do you look worried enough?

Versus could, you know, theater? That. That is theater. Trying to show, you know. Exactly.

Our statistics are terrible. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. Talk a little bit about Big Bet.

Yeah. So Big Bet Leadership releases next February. If you go To Big Bet Leadership.com, enter in your email and your Kindle email address and the podcast, the One Sharp Sword Podcast. I'll send you a Kindle version of the book when it releases February 27th. My ask is for a customer review, but it is an ask. But this, this book. I have a co author for this book, so my co author was my client at T Mobile. Kevin ran enterprise strategy and planning at T Mobile. I got to be the. The senior innovation advisor to T Mobile for a few years. And what we did was we adapted many of the Amazon philosophies into. Into a generalized playbook for a company that's not Amazon, doesn't want to be Amazon. And we combined it with all the other things that Kevin and I have learned through two careers of making change happen. We wrote a really nice story, so we purposely wrote it so that it was a nice narrative. It'll be a great audio book and everything, but we're building a ton of supports, resources, downloads, prompts that you can use to put the book into action, but it is specifically written for senior executives when they need to make significant change in their business. The big bets. A digital transformation M and a new product line launch. How to think through. We were talking about bets early, right? Diagnosing deeply the problem so that you understand the magic of what you could do, how you could win the customer, a hypothesis for what we think it is, and how to write it out, how to debate it thoroughly, and then how to create an environment where that. Where the testing actually proceeds with as much speed and vigor and focus as possible. Because it's truly being able to test that hypothesis fast and cheap that allows you to not fail at your big bets. So that's the story. And I think it'll be all you try to do in these books is add something new to prior work. And I think we've added some new things to prior work about how to be successful at transformations.

I think you just defined your coaching process also, because that was brilliant. That was really brilliant. And, and I know I'm going to plug you here because I know that you work doing coaching and consulting for major organizations, so.

But both major organizations and small dynamic organizations too, and everything. Right. Like, one of the great things about the work I get to do now, the model is I focus on, like, is this an interesting problem to go solve? I don't have to worry as much about, you know, the size of the company and can I float a big team behind it and everything which you need to do when you're a partner at a consulting firm. Now I have a very dynamic team, very dynamic model where, where we can be extremely flexible. It really is, is this a worthy problem to help solve for a client? That's how we measure our, our intake process.

Nice. And in, in doing that, the process is the process. Right.

You know, one of the. My favorite sayings or philosophies is prescription without diagnosis is malpractice. And so while I can talk in general about, well, what a solution might be for a client, and I focus on wicked problems, hard business problems, not obvious business problems. That's where that curiosity and really slowing down and diagnosing and seeing it from all sides. And my solutions are always a system. Leadership, culture, process technology, partnerships. I use all the tools to get to a business outcome and I try to help leadership adjust their own approaches so that they can be successful at this going forward.

Love that. Love that. Wow. We've covered a lot. I want to hear about Bossman.

So boss man. He's he here. Hang on, I'll. I'll get the boss man. So, so, so bossman's are, are our French bulldog. He's the, the family. I don't know if you call him mascot or whatever, but, you know, my name is Rossman, so it's Bossman Rossman. And one of my Boys named him and so he's. He's pretty hilarious.

I see. I just, I, I couldn't let the show go without seeing, you know, Bossman Rossman.

Yeah, exactly, exactly.

French bulldog keeping you going? John, what haven't we talked about? What else. What else would you like to share and. Or where do people find you?

Well, people can find me on LinkedIn. John Rossman is probably the easiest way again, big bet leadership to sign up for the book. And I have this concept of a value ladder. You can read my books, find value. You can have me do a keynote or workshop. Create value. You can retain me as an advisor or as a consultant. Create value. But my only orientation is helping my clients compete and win in business and develop the leadership practices that help them do that on a sustaining basis. And I've been very lucky in my career to see both so many how the difference the great leadership makes in doing that. And that's why I kind of focus my work around leadership. Leadership for innovation, leadership for transformation. Because all these other aspects of technology or process are important. But if you don't have the right leadership for the job that you need to do, you won't be successful at it. So many times today people boil it down to a technology problem or a process problem. And it's like that, that is typically the first level fix for something that is not truly getting at the systemic issue of why you're in that situation.

Too true. Too true. You need somebody that can see the future or bet on the future. Right. I do actually want to come back for a minute and just. And ask you something. Something I'm studying and looking at. And so it's a personal curiosity which is perfect. The, the concept of competition and winning and how you personally approach that or how you organizationally approach that. A lot of people are driven to win. Like that's what they like gritted teeth and, and others are. And I know you've seen this in business where it's like we are driven not to lose so that we can just survive and everything is sort of like shortness of breath and we're gonna not lose. And you know, there's somewhere in the middle is the kind of sweet spot of it's winning isn't about crushing the competition, at least in my mind. Winning is about gaining kind of confidence of, of your customers. And look, that's my thinking. So I'm really curious. Seriously, this is a conversation I would love to have with a ton of people. So.

Yeah.

Your thoughts on this?

Well, there's a lot of room on this conversation. Right. And so no one perspective is going to absolutely nail it. But I think of winning along for a business along three axises. One is do your customers love you? And I use that term because you can have customers, but so many times if they could replace you, they would. I think that if you have great NPS Net promoter scores and customer loyalty, that means you're winning in business because you've got durability. So that's one access. Second access. Is it a great place to be a team member in? It doesn't mean it needs to be a great place for everybody. It means it's a culture that for the right people, it's a great place to be part of the team. And the third is that you have a financial model, the financial returns that justify it as a business and make it a sustainable business. And I think you have to win on each one of those. And I always think of winning is like if you're top quadrant relative to your peers along those three dimensions, you've got a great business. And that's how I orient towards winning in business, is that it's durable, it's creating great results and it's creating something for others.

Service, a financial model that's sustainable. And yeah, your customer engagement and your team member engagement.

And your team member engagement. Right? Yeah.

Love it.

Love it. Again, like, there's multiple ways to define it. I tend to be more customer and market oriented than direct competitor oriented. But I think at times there are some values of like focusing on a competitor and really asking, well, how are they beating us? But you're doing that to improve yourself, not so much to push them down. But I think you can learn a lot by benchmarking and learning from others. That's really one of the cheapest ways to innovate is by closely studying both direct competition as well as adjacent competition. That is doing something that's interesting. It's a tool that many leaders don't take enough advantage of in. In benchmarking themselves.

What's happening in the marketplace? It's a big question, right?

What. What is truly good today is the question you should be asking.

And what do people want that's not being offered today.

That's right.

So what's good and what do people want? That's awesome. That's awesome. Okay. So I appreciate that. And that was that those were kind of gold nuggets and I've been writing along the way. So there you go.

Cool.

Wow. Anything else that you've.

You've. You've covered a lot of territory. This has been a great conversation. Thank you.

It has been a great conversation, John. I feel like, you know, I'd love to do coffee or lunch with you at some point.

Let's do another program or something like that. Yeah, go do a customer workshop or whatever it is. That would be super. I think it'd be a powerful combination because I've worked with enough real coaches to understand the value of what they do and helping to. To bring professionals and people along and. And I know that I don't do that, so. Yeah,

but with our powers combined.

Exactly.

Very good. That's. That's awesome, John. This is great. I am going to send people to bigbetleadership.com Big Bet Leadership. Big Bet is John Rossman's new book. The Amazon Way is John Rossman's four first book with third edition having new appendices and such. So I'll be getting both. And, and for our audience members, listeners and viewers, John is making a special offer for the Kindle book of Big Bet and Big Bet Leadership. So head to big betleadership.com and check that out. Out. John, thank you.

Appreciate you being here, Dr. P. My pleasure.

Yeah. My guest today, John Rossman. This is one sharp sword cutting through to what matters most. I'm your host, Dr. P. Dr. Wayne Pernell, the exponential success coach. I almost lost my breath on that. The exponential success coach. There's a rule. Never throw away your line. Right. So. So I'm just sharing that with my audience right there. Don't throw away your line. The exponential success coach and the president of Dynamic Leader Incorporated. This is one sharp sword. Thanks for listening. Thanks for being here. We will see you here next time next week.

Thank you for listening to One Sharp Sword cutting through to what Matters Most with your host, Dr. P. Dr. Wayne Purnell, the breakthrough success coach and your powerful presence mental.