Interview with Marcos Martins

You're listening to One Sharp Sword cutting through to what Matters Most with outfluencer Dr. Wayne Purnell. Welcome to One Sharp Sword cutting through to what Matters Most. I'm your host, Dr. P. Dr. Wayne Purnell. And today I have with me Marcos Martins. Marcos has been a chief data and analytics officer. He does AI, he's. Most of what he's done has been data. He's been with the equivalent of the IRS in, in various governments. I'm reading some notes as I look down. It's like there's so much to learn about this gentleman who offers amazing leadership lessons from the different areas of his life. Let's dive in. Marcos Martins. Marcos, welcome to One Sharp Sword.

Thank you, Wayne. Good to be here with you, man. Appreciate the invitation.

Yeah, really great. Let's talk about, let's talk about how you got here. You're Brazilian. You moved to the U.S. what you were, you were in college when you moved here and, and then what?

No, it actually was after college. But so I, I had, as a kid I had a passion for computers and started coding very, very early in life. And I, I went to computer science as a, you know, undergrad in Brazil. And you know, things that happens well in life. Luckily enough, I got an opportunity to work in the technology arm of the equivalent of the IRS in Brazil. And I joined a group at the time, at the time was called Suniji. They were building the first data mining and data house for the federal government in Brazil. And I said how things connect. At the time I thought I was going to be building softwares and working software development. But I learned that the group the power of data, they were building fraud detection things for taxes and to not try to discover other things related to uncovered patterns in the data at the beginning of the real statistical and data mining kind of work through the data. And I fell in love with data and analytics and the rest is history. That's what I went to through my whole career and said no at that time. I said that's what I want to do for life. And I have been doing that since then.

I just want to pause because some of our audience is listening to this and you're smiling so big so they can't necessarily see your giant smile as you say, you know, I fell in love with it and it's, that's what I've been doing ever since. There's so much passion there. Which is, which is part of your success, right, that you, you know, you thought you'd do coding and then you Got into data, data analytics. And, you know, for most people, you start talking data analytics and their eyes roll back for you. It's like, oh, this is so exciting. Look what it means. I love that. I love that part of it.

Yeah. The reason for that is I think I have a passion mainly for solving problems. And every time that you touch a new set of data, there is something to be uncovered. There is, of course, the raw and the building of foundation type of work that is needed, actually making that data become able to tell a story and deliver what it's needed. Then comes computing platforms, storage, all of the things, the products that are used, the database, and all of this, which I love. I love all of that mechanics to make that work. At the end of the day, every little piece of data that you touch has a story to tell. Help the business, help people figuring out new things. That company that I worked at in Brazil, they found some fraud situations that unexpected. And I remember at the time they were so successful that the organization was killed because they uncovered things they are not supposed to uncover. And I think that piece is the one that told me, wow, how powerful this could be. Look, there are really a lot of information here that can be uncovered that is not known if you do not do that exercise. So putting together that idea of, like, we have a lot of potential problems that can be solved. And as you are doing that, there is all the things that I had the passion for, the infrastructure of computing platforms, putting all together the big stuff, and all of this combined just, you know, it brings lights to what I love.

This is awesome, Marcos.

The.

Not only is there passion, there's. When you start, you have the assumption that every problem has a solution, right? Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. That's awesome. Right. Every problem has a solution. And I think. I think this is the crossover leadership lesson for anybody. And it's. Whether you're, you know, struggling with a child or struggling with your business, the ne taking it to the next level. Everything you're receiving is data. And data is not emotional. It's just information. And that is a. That too, is a huge leadership lesson that if you take even someone's behavior, it's not personal, it's not emotional. And so when you get data, it's. It represents behavior. Like someone did something to cause this number to appear. Right. Or a certain number of people did a certain thing, and. Right. And now you've got this. This kind of trend. That's information. There's no right or wrong to it. It's just neutral, Right?

Yeah. The Interpretation of what you see in the data is a very, very important aspect. Right. I have seen examples of ratios that were calculated in a way that they entirely did not expose the real condition. And when we revisit some of the key components in the formulas that were being used to calculate, we realized a lot of things that are important here are missing. I can give you examples in the financial industry that I saw this. I can give examples in the telco industry where I saw that and then we had to add more components. So one of the core things in terms of data interpretation, telling the truth, it is, do you have all the dimensions that's always extremely important, or do you understand what you don't have, or up to your limitations of what is available in the data for you to be able to make that inference? I always like explaining from the most simplistic approach, which is everybody that has a kid went to a doctor and the doctor showed that beautiful and basic line of growth. You're a kid at month one, at year one, at year two, at year three, at year four. Right. And if you compare that growth curve between the population of Brazil versus the American, there is a little difference where that curve fits in. Mainly because generics, DNA and et cetera, average height and everything else, they're different. Awesome. Does that curve apply to every kid? No, it is in gross mode, an average. Right. It's a regression filled in with the data that has been available. Do we have all the dimensions there? No, we don't. It is the best that we can tell, most likely with the information that is available and everything else. If we could have all the information in the world to be able to properly say your kid is going to be here, here, here, here's how far or close to the curve it is, that would be phenomenal. But not all the data is always available. So when we talk about the truth, the version of the truth, we gotta always take into consideration do we have all the information, it's never the case, or do we know the formulas to really calculate? We're trying to accomplish potentially as good as possible. But there is always a question of how much do I know? What are we missing? Are we good with that? Do we need to go hunting for more data or not? I have stories, phenomenals related to this. But anyway, when you're talking about emotion, it's always important that what is enough for us to make the decision that we're making the interpretation and started taking actions or versus not can I approve a loan?

This is, this is great. You made Several points that I want to back up to just because I love to, I love to, to go, oh, that was, that was perfect. So from my notes, what I, what I wrote, like how you interpret data is what matters. And this ties a lot to what I tell leaders in terms of you're going to find what you're looking for. If you're looking for an employee to be the screw up, you're probably going to be on the alert for times when think behavior is out of place. Same with data. If you're looking for the outlier, your eye is open to that outlier. Sometimes data is missing. Now one of the things that, that I like to underscore is let's assume that what if we started with we don't yet have all the information, we don't know everything there is to know about the context, the other person or ourselves. And when you're doing data analytics, it's like am I looking at the right pool? Is this pool full enough? Am I supposed to be looking somewhere else? Right. Also you said something that was very interesting. Sometimes you're limited, sometimes your knowledge or your understanding of what you're looking at is limited and sometimes your technology is limited. I think that's a beautiful thing to ask, like what am I missing in terms of my own place of growth? Like this is how I tie what you're talking about, data analytics to personal and professional growth. Right. Real life. And then, and you funneled all that down to a simple quote, question of do we have all the information? And I love that. Right. And let's assume not. So what's more then the next thing you said is how you didn't say it this way, but what you said was basically how much is good enough? And, and so many people I work with are getting ready to get ready and they're not ready yet. And they're not ready yet. And my, my push to them is you're ready enough start and then you're gonna get new information. Awesome. Then you make the next move based on new information.

Yeah. You know that 80, 20 rule. It's a good way to maybe talk about this. Right. You never have enough, but maybe, you know, you never have everything, but you maybe have enough to be able to, to proceed with it. And linking to career. That, that's a very, very interesting parallel. Now it is, is all the information about the career and the environment and the economy, the opportunities there in your hand when you are trying to make those decisions, it is not always there. Right. Either because the people that you Are connected to. Cannot talk about that in the entirety either because there are new things that are coming out and you never know where is the industry or the economy going to go. We are talking about AI. There are kids today being trained or for jobs that are not even yet created. And that's. I strongly believe on that. So then I'll put In that combined, that is, we have that 80, 20, maybe 70, 30 in many situations, not only when you're analyzing data, but also making decisions on the business. They make decisions with life and all of that.

That's so great. So what are you doing now? Your title is Chief Data and Analytics Officer. So what are you studying? What is like your big next. What's what gets you up in the morning? You know, the, the just for you, you know, for you personally. What's like you get up and you're.

Number one day for me, Number one thing for me on every day, right? I have a set of goals. I, I try to make my list of things that I want to accomplish either today or, or this week. And I try to make it then becomes things that are real, tangible, important, right? Always validate, validate with business partner, my leaders and everything else. Are we going the right direction. Is this what everybody's expecting? And everything else, but parallel to that it is, am I falling behind in following the changes and getting up to date about the changes that are happening in the industry? The social media is bringing a lot of information which is important, but at the same time there is a lot of noise created in the AI space. Wow. It is fantastic, right? It is phenomenal how much we evolved. And I have a couple of numbers that I want to share with the audience. But in the AI space mainly now, there are so many new things or copies of the copies of the copies of the copies of the copies that already exist. So how do we filter it out and focus on things that are important? I'm very thankful for the position that I have today. I have a small group, I don't lead a large group like I used to do. And I have been able to experiment, experience a lot of things to figure out what is real, what is not, what is practical, what is not, what is good, what is not. You know, throw away a lot of things. What are the copies of the copies that I already have? So I don't need it. So I'm. I'm in a very, I would say, nice moment in my career, in life, you know, with everything combined because I've been able to filter well the noise because I can put my hands on the keyboard and get a couple of things done. As I'm working with my team, help them in developing the researching, testing, validating, confirming. I constantly bring to them, guys, as I read about this, let's go do a little test and go test, say, hey, it's a copy. Already have. It's not improving what I have. Let's push it out. I don't know the combination of the two. Every day, I have deliverables that are important to my business partners. I constantly validate that, have my list go through it. And I try to execute as much as possible on delivering good results. But in parallel, which is the piece that I love, it is I am learning. I am learning how to solve problems, old problems in better ways, newer ways, cheaper, faster, more accurately. All of this, to me, makes life exciting.

This is so good. I'm finishing a note. Here we go. So, goals list every morning, really important. Important, really important. So I'm assuming you have a goals list for your year, probably three years out, your year, your, Your quarter, your month, your week, and then every day. And then, am I falling behind with technology? The answer is, of course.

Impossible to be up to speed about that.

And I'm not on everything. Right? So that gets back to something else you said, which, and this is a great quote, you never have everything, but maybe you have enough. Awesome. And then you do push yourself with those goals to get to the next place. I love this as a style that you have. You have parallel goals, and they are what are my deliverables. And basically, that demands that you know who, who your stakeholders are. And I don't think enough of our leaders and possibly any of our audience members really think about who's the stakeholder, who, who stands to benefit or. Or lose based on the decisions I make today. Who are the stakeholders? And second, you push yourself to learn like you are your own learning organization. And you're learning not just to expand your knowledge base. You're learning to figure out, is there a different way to solve a problem? And maybe we've solved it before, but maybe there's a more efficient way and there's a new problem. Awesome. That, for you, is not a problem. I, I get the sense that you don't really. You use the word problem, but I get the sense that you think in terms of puzzle more than problem.

Yeah, absolutely. And a good, good choice of words. They're changing the problem to solve to. To puzzle. That. That's precisely it. And I, I see as, hey, this needs a solution. Let's work on it. Of course, if it is meaningful to to wherever we are. Right. If I'm just playing at home, it is one thing. Is this meaningful to me as I'm playing? Am I learning anything in the business? We gotta always be providing the no value to the business. There is an investment that I expectations. So is that puzzle connected to real business? Target is going to bring the benefit? Absolutely.

That's great. That's awesome. Cool. So what is like what gets you? I know the problem solving solutions that get you going in the morning. Your team is how big and how do you manage? How would you talk about the difference between management and leadership with your team? Because leaders are out in front, managers are more hands on.

Yeah, that's a good thing. That's a very good question. So I like going back to between 16 and 19. Then I spent three years in Kansas and when I left the team, I asked the question to Dan. We went to no restaurant with the members that I could bring in and we had a lot of junior people in there. We had senior people in there. And I asked them a question. Hey, give me a good day and a bad day with Marcus. How was it? Fortunately enough. And I told them, guys, I'm leaving. You can give me the bad day. I didn't hear about that. There were a little noise about pushing too hard in some situations. But they all felt like it was needed. It was phenomenal that I kept today as you're going there. But the one thing that one of them told me, the good things like Marcus, you, you just came in suit and tie, you were in a meeting with the board and it was past 6 o', clock, it was a Thursday. We are all working on a problem and we did not have a solution. And in there I had a few, few guys that are extremely high on the stat math PhDs and some of the juniors and they were trying to solve a problem and they said that I passed by, I saw them working on. I said, hey guys, where you going? I'm going home. Do you need my help? Like, hey, we're trying to solve this problem. I literally, I pulled an old tie and everything on, off, pull the computer set of them and I spend the rest of the day coding with them. I sat there and I was like coding participants that they're like, wow, this guy is not just the one opening up a business, bringing budget and approving things and presenting. They felt like amazing that not only that I was able to because I know a lot of the executives there are able to. But they felt like he really care about the problem that we're working with. And let's use the word puzzling, he really cared about those, sat down, sit with us and stay here until we actually solve the problem. Then of course I came up with the question, was my time there helped? Like. Yeah, yeah. We figured out a little different way because you were thinking out of the box. We asked a couple of questions, went to different routes. I think that's like when I heard that say, that's the kind of leader that I always want to be. I just don't want to be too distant from the team where I cannot even put my hands on the keyboard. I cannot swing a hammer if that's needed. I love that I still have the ability to do that. And in just making a little tangent to the topic, what I felt phenomenal about AI and what I'm experiencing today is that there are a lot of newer languages. For instance, right. I have learned a lot of coding, language, programming language to my life, and for a good amount of time I was disconnected from it. Today I can still get things done because I don't need to code anymore. I can just explain what needs to be done, how it needs to be done, what needs to be taken care of, the logic and the code. AI code helps me creating the code to do everything that I needed. I get back closer to that on the day to day, not because I am learning the new language, but because I'm using the new technology code, the AI code to help me, you know, get closer to that and be able to help.

That's great. I, you know, the, the amazing thing about AI is the clearer, and this is also a leadership lesson, the clearer you are in what you ask for, the better the response is going to be. Right. So that's awesome. Here's something that's very subtle that I want to call out and that is that you've never used the word. Like when I've talked to you and you and I had a call before this, you've never used the word staff. And you, you might have, but don't really use the word team. I'm sorry, employee, you use the word team, right. So it's not, it's not staff or employees, it's team. And I think that that is huge that, you know, that allows you. It's one of the things that I really want our leaders out there to understand is that you're part of a team. You might be the team. Right. But you're part of it. And so There are times that you are going to be out there doing the work with them. You know, you're hands on and hands in when need be, but otherwise you're out there, you know, as the team leader, you're out there showing them in the way.

Yeah. Wayne, thank you very much for making that observation. And honestly, I feel really good with you making that observation because that's how I always want to be perceived as participating the whole an organization where there is someone leading something and there are a lot of collaborators that are participating and helping here. I want to make a comment to people that I worked for. I, I was blessed through life. I had phenomenal leaders. I had amazing people that I worked for, that I worked with. I can tell you. So I think two years ago that I had time when I was back in Brazil, I called the guy that was the second boss that I had in my life, went to visit him, went to meet his family because life and everything else never had the opportunity to put us back together. I went there to see him and spend some time together and catching up on everything. Beginning of this March or May, actually not begin of the year, March or May. This year I traveled to Virginia to see Mark. Mark was my boss between 2003 and 2006. You know, he was in his retirement party 70 years. You know, wife called me, hey, we need you to come and cook that Brazilian steak. I say it's my job. Don't, don't worry. You know, I was blessed to my life of having amazing and phenomenal leaders and of course life that teaches lessons. We are all here to grow. That's how I believe that. That's how I see. I had the opportunity to work for non amazing leaders. I had opportunity to actually, let me rephrase that. I had an opportunity to have to work for people that were bosses and not leaders, not partners. And I experienced what was bad. I learned a lot. I know that through the process of becoming a leader, I probably made mistakes and I probably hurt one, two, three people. You know, I have tried to catch up with folks as much as I can, but I mean in the majority of things I learn from, I would say the best of the best. And I know they all know who they are. From my time back in Brazil to the folks that I worked when I land in the US and many of the companies that I worked for, you know, one of the persons that I worked for, I worked for this guy for six years. We go out for coffee almost like at least once a month with each other. He Retired now he's in Charlotte. No, he was not Charlotte when I worked for him. Fortunately enough, he moved here. We go out for coffee, you know, at least once a month. I just love it. They know my wife, they know my kids. Met his kids, his wife. It's fantastic. Think that that's about life, right? It is learning, connecting, growing. But, you know, back to the leadership aspect. We world, the world is always spinning. You know, things are changing constantly. I saw folks jumping in with the attitude of, you guys are just numbers to me. And I saw the folks that really care about people. And I can tell you the organizations that I worked for, that I worked in, that I saw most successful in business were the ones that the leaders connect to the people there as like partners, not just numbers.

That's so great. Well said from a data analytics guy.

Oh, yes, absolutely right.

But, you know, leaders connect with people and that really is that. I mean, it's people that. That make things happen. So data tells the story, but it's. It really is people that make things happen. And as a leader, if you are there, if you are in support of. In partnership, you use the term partnership in partnership with. I think that's amazing. I think that's.

And Wayne, I think we need to touch on. On a couple of things. We started talking about career decisions that I made, you know, how things landed in us and everything else. But anyway, I spent five years in more of my professional career. About seven years actually worked in Brazil and then I was transferred to the United States. And when I look back to everything, what I know it is, there is one aspect. There are two aspects I think that are key. One is resilience, right? When there is a puzzle that needs to be solved and the problems demanded that to be solved, it has to be solved. You gotta carry. And there are a lot of people that are great at beginning of the project, middle of the project, end of the project, and that are the ones that carry it along all the way. You need to identify those people and to know, use them in terms of helping supporting long projects like this that are mainly the ones that take longer, right? The ones that are two days and one, two weeks, they are phenomenally easy to get done. But the ones that takes longer to transform organization or those problems that are very, very challenged and are repetitive, the resilience there to stay on it, to get on the problem, stay working on it through the end, ensure they know that it's enough partnership. You figure out the people that are good at the beginning, a lot of energy let's get it down. Design and everything else. But these people, sometimes they start fading away when the things is like, it takes longer, it takes longer and go for it. That I think that's one of, of the aspect which is resilience, right? Stay on it, carry on, go through the end. I've seen folks, I heard folks with challenges of. I didn't, I didn't go for the Ivy League school to have to code when we were working like a trillion dollars per hour, literally a trillion dollars problem. You know, it's. It, it's a problem, right? And I see those people trying, hey, I want to grow, but you cannot to do the fundamental. You cannot pour the concrete where it's needed and then you want to enjoy the building when it's ready. That's. That's not fair. But you know, I've seen the folks that are, hey, I don't know how to do this. I don't know even where to get started. Hey, go study. Take a look at this. Next day, the person comes in, not only I study, but with questions that took beyond and say, oh, this person really studied this. Let's go and keep pushing. Right? Like I was identifying who are the key collaborators to help growing in all of those aspects. There is one topic related to growth, leadership and opportunities. There are some talks happening about it. And I can tell you I experience a lot of the good side of it and I experience in some aspects the bad side of it, which is likability. I have not seen a lot of discussions about the topic likability. And one of the aspects of people growing, I feel like, meaning the large American corporations is the likability, the connection to the people that are making decisions and everything else, right? How you communicate, why you communicate, how you challenge people, how you behave. All of those aspects make something that I feel like combined it is. It helps with the likability or doesn't help with the likability. And I have felt many, many instances when I was supporting sales or when deep into the traditional large corporation American, the American companies, the likability aspect helped a lot of folks to stay on track and keep growing. But on the ones that are not able to make that likability aspect to be a big thing. It's a challenge. It's definitely a challenge and challenge people to grow. And. And I see a lot of people, I saw a lot of people through their career becoming frustrated. Like, I deliver, I do everything right, why I'm not being picked up for this or why the opportunities are not Coming to my end, why, when this project's kicking in, I'm not called to actually drive the project or be important person there. Knowing that is how you communicate, why you communicate, how strong you get with people. You know, are you able to really connect with folks that are around or not? There are all of these aspects that I found phenomenal. Just touching on something that I feel like there is not enough discussion out there. I have seen probably only two people talking about this. And I think it is a strong topic to be developed in the industry.

I love that. So, you know, the. Back in the 60s, the late 1960s, there was a man might be. In the early 70s, there was a professor at UCLA named Albert Moravian and he did studies on likability. And his studies were actually have been horribly misquoted. That said, the foundation of them is really strong. And that is about communication, right? The 7%, you might have heard this. 7% of what we communicate is in the words we use, 38% is in the tonal quality and 55% of what we communicate is in our facial expression and our body language. Now, likability, that, that was a likability scale, right? So how likable is this person? And, and it came across, you could use certain words, but if your voice was monotone and sounded a little loud, it sounded angry, right? So, so it's like if you didn't know how to modulate, you couldn't, you couldn't connect with another person. And so what you're talking about is in terms of personal growth, professional growth, and not just doing the work, but really connecting. I think that likability is, is founded in true connection with another person. And yes, that has to do with the words you use, the tonal quality of your voice. And certainly you've got to align your body language and your facial expression with, with what you're saying. The other, the other piece is trust, like the likability, right? So in sales, people look for is this person known? Are they liked? Are they trusted? You know, do I know you enough? Do I like you enough? Like, is there enough commonality that I could see that you could teach me or we could get along or your product is good and then do I trust you? Known, like and trusted. And I think those are actual qualities of a leader as well. You know, how much are you actually on the floor rolling up your sleeves as you did? How much are you, how much are you in rapport with somebody really knowing about them so that they can feel comfortable asking about you? And that's how you build trust is to show also that you have the other person's best interest at heart. So I, I really love that. Like I. Now you've touched a passion point of mine, you know, right. The, the, the idea of likability and connection. Those are huge. Those are huge. We could do a whole hour or four. Exactly. So let me flip it back to you. You know, you've gotten some of my kind of take on that. What's your, what would be like two or three points that you would make about likability and, and really I would, I would capture that by saying connection. Right. What would be two or three points that you would make as you know, for any of us as leaders out there, because I believe we're all leaders. What would you say are some really good things to be paying attention to in terms of building your likability, your trustworthiness, your connection with others, when I.

Will say the things that are, that I feel worked for me. I don't want to speak in generic terms. Right. But I think number one, it is language. I try to comprehend and understand the language that the other person talks. When it's one on one, that's an easy job. When it's one to 100, it's a completely different aspect, right? Yeah. When it's one to 300, oh, it's a much, much bigger challenge for sure. So, so number one, it is language. And by language what I meant is do you speak English like I do? That's not what I'm talking about. About. It is what is the person listening, what is the person expecting how the person communicates? I try to adjust and adapt to that as much as possible. I would say psychologists, they'll say, well, you got to be yourself, you got to be firm and etc, it's you and etc. And I, I, I, I don't like behaving and acting like that. I like I am flexible enough to be able to deal. You know, my wife used to say you have friends that the geek nerd completely like on that aspect and you have friends that are like on the business, the selling and, and then I have all of that spectrum. I try to, as I am having the opportunity to connect with folks, I try to adjust from that perspective. I think that's number one for me. It is being able to adapt and adjust. And that brings the other challenge which is can I communicate well with that person? That is so difficult or the ones that are easy are easy. Right. Everybody can communicate with. And as I said, one to one that is easy, one to 100. It's a completely different job. I had a challenge once with two partners in the group where they were hired for a function and that function changed. They did not have the background, the technical background for the new aspect of the function. For two years we were not able to change them into even trying to learn the foundations of that new thing. And I failed on those two. I'm pretty sure I failed them. But what I figured out later, when I look back, I forgot hearing more of, of the history and the aspect of those shoes. And I was interested in making it happen, make it work and everything else. They know I was not acting, just, hey, it is what it is. Good luck. That was not the intention. The intention was like, how can we make that People that has already been here, has a background in the company, has background in the business, have shown to us they're interested in working partner, understand the connections with other side of the business. So there is so much there. But there was one piece which is a new function, new requirement for the job that they didn't. And they struggle for a while, but they also struggle on trying to learn that. And where I failed was how can I communicate better and help them get over that resistance to learn something new.

What's hidden in your message is personal accountability. So as the leader, you didn't say, why don't they? And I've seen this, right? I consult with organizations around the world and I've seen leaders in various positions in the organization. Why can't they just do their job? Why can't they just why can't they, right? And instead of asking a why question about the other, you said, how can I? That is so powerful. That is one of the most powerful leadership lessons is how can I make a difference in this other person's life? How can I make a difference so that they see it differently, so that they respond differently? I. It's. It's just part of who you are. You're taking personal accountability. You're not blaming. Like, why is such a blameful question. Why did they do that? Why can't they just. Instead of how can I, Meaning there's a path. What's the path that I need to take? And that is a personal accountability path. Huge in leadership. So you've talked about resilience, which also included persistence and consistency. You didn't use terms, but that is part of what you were talking about. We've talked about growth and likability and connection, to which I added the idea of trust. Trustworthiness that comes through language. Your choice to adapt and be flexible with the other person's style is key. It is huge. Back to flexibility and accountability, and it's personal accountability as a leader. I think. I think all of that is brilliant, Marcos. I think that's great.

So thank you for calling that out. And, you know, I mean, it is important to me. And as you were talking, I'm questioning myself. Was I concerned about really? You know, I need to help this person. I always looking to. I'm trying to show like I was shown as well, through my life, through my career. You have the potential for that, man. Come on, go for it. Here's the path and it's your problem. Right? You know, you can only show the path. They cannot make you walk that. Maya. It's your job to go for it. I try to do that as much as I can, for sure.

That's awesome. Anything that we haven't touched on that you wanted to bring or do you feel pretty complete at this point?

No, I think we touched on so many great points. I know we have a time note that is somewhat planned for first to conduct this podcast. Love the opportunity. I love the work that you do. Watched some of the podcasts that you do just so I could be prepared for this. I hope this was meaningful, that we covered important topics for your audience and help to collaborate. I am available LinkedIn. All my LinkedIn is out there if Search Marcus Martins. I don't think there are many, but anyway, I'm looking in Charlotte, North Carolina. Happy to connect through if there is any interest in following up on anything.

Very good. Excellent. Thank you. Marcos Martins in Charlotte, North Carolina. Available on LinkedIn if you want to connect. And yes, thank you. You've contributed a lot to leadership lessons along the way. Again, I mean, I titled my podcast One Sharp Sword because it's so much better than a thousand dull blades. Right? One sharp sword to cut through to what matters most. And I think in a very short time, we got some really great information. Thank you for being here.

Thank you.

All righty. My guest today was Marcos Martins. This is One Sharp Sword cutting through to what Matters Most. I'm your host, Dr. P. Dr. Wayne Pernell, and we will see you again next time. Thanks for joining us. Thanks for listening to One Sharp Sword Cutting through to what Matters Most with outflensor Dr. Wayne Purnell. For more information, please go to onesharpsword.com.