Interview with Sean Hicks

You're listening to One Sharp Sword Cutting through to what Matters Most with outfluencer Dr. Wayne Purnell. Welcome to One Sharp Sword cutting through to what Matters Most. I'm your host, Dr. Wayne Purnell. And today we have Sean Hicks with us. It's. He's got an interesting story. I only bring people with interesting stories. Sean is kind of an amazing human and I really wanted to share his story. I wanted him to share his story with us. He, he is currently doing and has done extended warranty things for decades. And you might ask yourself, how is a guy who sells extended warranties, how is that going to be interesting? You've got to hear his story. These are lessons of leadership that anybody can use. And I, I heard about him. I reached out to him and I really wanted to welcome him. Sean Hicks, welcome to One Sharp Sword. So glad you're here.

Thank you, Dr. Wayne. Very, very happy to be here with you today. Look forward to, to our conversation. It should be fun.

It should be fun. It should be.

But will it be?

Yes, it will be. So here's the thing. You've been doing extended warranty stuff for years. You are the CEO of a big and now growing firm. But years ago, decades ago, you started off at Sears, is that right?

That's correct. I started out at Sears, started selling paint many years ago, and then I got into the service department when I was in my early 20s. And so that's where you were responsible for the service contracts that were sold at retail and ran technicians and sold parts and renewed service contracts. And so it was a, it was a great learning experience for a young guy.

So here's the thing about that that I really want to dive into during, during our talk today. There are two things. One is sales, because we all sell something all the time. We're selling ourselves in some way. The other is, why extended warranty, why is that such a big deal? Right? That it's like, oh, here's another extended warranty. I'm calling about your car insurance. I'm calling. It's like, that's just annoying. But what you do isn't annoying. In fact, it's really, really helpful. So what made you see through all of that? And did that start when you were at Sears, at Montgomery Ward? Like, I know a little of your history, but maybe you could walk us through that.

Sure. So, you know, I started at Sears, we talked about, and went to Montgomery Ward, and I ended up running service for Montgomery Ward nationally out of Chicago for a number of years. And we were responsible for all the service contracts sold within the. The business. And so our technicians went out and did the rep. Fair work. In 1997, I got onto this side of the fence where I became a vice president for a service contract administrator called Warren Tech. Now I've. I've never been in the car business. All of my experience has been in the appliance and electronics space. So we're not that annoying people that are. That are calling you so. But I will tell you the. The domestic service contract space is a $48 billion business and it has a, you know, cargo of 8.6%. So by 2030, this will be an $83 billion business. So it's. It's huge business in the United States. And I wish I could tell you that I had this vision, I saw it, and it was going to be great. But I was going to be an electrical engineer. And then I just found myself in this space. And I love taking care of problems, people's problems, right. They've got broken products and. And it has. It just gave me such a charge to be able to take care of, you know, issues that people were having in their homes. And I've been here for 30 years now and, and still enjoy coming to work every day.

That's amazing. So, wow. The idea of taking care of people's problems, it's. That's what helps you get up every day, I guess, is like, I'm going to help people. And it is. That's great. So where did that come from and what is it specifically that you're doing now? Because you're not. You're not like you've worked your way up to see CFO and president, right?

Yeah. So I. We started New Leaf. So we started New Leaf in 2011. I had a business partner. His name was Rick Avino. Rick and I started New Leaf because we felt there was a missing component in the market. The SMB space was really abandoned by the large sellers of service contracts in the space.

So SMB is what just for listeners, small, medium businesses.

So the very good. You know, so if you think about your independent retail store down the street that sells appliances, right, It's a guy might own three stores, might own one store might own. But it's not the national chains. It's that space that most people don't really think about until you really need service. And then you go to the independent change because they're the ones that can provide you with, you know, real live salespeople, real live delivery people, real life people that do installations. And that's where we saw a miss in the, in the space. And so we started New Leaf to serve that, that market particularly. We provide everything from product design, regulatory compliance, underwriting training. And then after it's been sold and you have a broken product and you're calling somebody or you're emailing somebody, you're emailing us and then we're the ones dispatching out people to come out and do the repair work. We use your local repair people to come out and fix your refrigerator or fix your dryer or fix your tv. And then we are paying claims out of the insurance companies funds that we use to underwrite the service plans. And New Leaf's been in business now we'll celebrate our 15th year September 1st. So we're coming up on that pretty quickly.

15 years in biz is pretty good. The first three get kind of rough, don't they?

They can be, yeah. I'll never forget our first probably three months we operated off of my Verizon box and we had three people to conn via email, via that little box. And you know, making phone calls out to all of the people I knew in retail, trying to get them to do business with a brand new startup. And it was, it was a stressful but really exciting time as well.

When you are breaking into new space, it's almost always stressful. Right? You, you know, it's like the big boxes are doing this warranty stuff and the small, the small, really small stores probably don't have the, the amount of business to actually warrant going into. But you're like, well there's small, like bigger, small and medium size. And you saw an empty, an empty space and you were like, should we? Yeah, yeah.

And so Wayne, I'm going to use a baseball analogy. I'm obviously a big sports fan and

we, we look, you got a few things behind you on the wall there.

Yeah, just a few. We liken it to hitting singles. Right. So think about it. Four singles and I've hit a run. And so you know, we go out there and if it's a one store chain that might do a hundred thousand dollars a year with you, it's, that's okay, right? You know, we know that their business is going to be there every year and with the, you know, the death of some of the large, big boxes like Sears, like Wards, the independents are picking up that, that share. They're picking up a ton of that share. And so we're seeing the independents grow on an annual basis. And so we wanted them to compete more effectively with the big boxes, we wanted to help them design a service offering that allows them to do that. And so we brought to market things like 50% back guarantee. So if you don't use your plan, we'll give you 50% of what you paid for it back in credit at your retail store. And so in five years down the road, you might have $100 sitting there that you can go back and use towards your next appliance that you have. We brought service guarantees to market. So if you don't, we don't service your product within seven days, we'll pay you some dollar amount for that inconvenience. And so we made sure the independents could compete more effectively with the big boxes because they don't have pricing advantages anymore, but they have service advantages. And the consumer is demanding service. And that's where you can get it is from your independent.

And if you're, if you're local and you want to do business with your local independent store, this gives the local independent store a chance actually at offering the kind of service. I love that. And I want to call out. I'm looking down at my notes. I wanted to call out the. I believe it's a leadership lesson and it's a. Definitely a business lesson. Four singles is a run. And you know, when I, when I coach, when I, when I do my teaching, I always talk about the big goals and the, the big goals or the scary goals, and you've got to go for them. And it's great to have those great big goals because they motivate you, they pull you forward, even if you're scared. How do you reach those goals A little bit at a time, right? So four singles, it's like, can you make it to first base and then second, can you make it around? All the way around. It's a. I'm not much of a sports guy, more Disney, if you look at my background. The. But the idea really is, can, can you make a difference in your world and lives of your, your customers, your clients, even the vendors? Right. You just, you do it incrementally. And what's interesting, like I do a thing called exponential success. How do you get to exponential success? You make an exponential leap by doing the groundwork from which to take that leap. Right. So I love that as a lesson that, that you're bringing. I think that, that taking care of people is crucial. I think that making your business plan work for you where it's like, we don't have to get everything all at once. Like we're not going to climb this great big mountain all at once. You, you, you run the bases. A base at a time. You climb a mountain 7 inches at a time at a time.

Yeah, right.

You know, and, and that's how you get there. So I love that. What's, what's been kind of the biggest, most fun thing you've, you've tackled over the years?

Well, you know, one of the things that we really did that I think sets us apart is that we created an ESOP for our employees. My business partner was ready to retire and we found the esop, or really Rick found the ESOP is a, a great way of helping him take that step toward retirement and then bringing our employees in as my business partners. And so today we have a 30% ESOP. So, you know, my partners are my employees. They own 30% of our business. Every decision they make, you know, impacts their, you know, their pocketbook, their ownership stake. And really, in order to get ownership in our company, you just have to come to work and we're going to give it to you. And so from that perspective, we find that that's a great retention tool. People that are with us for a while, they became significant owners. And right now our average balance in our esop accounts is $35,000. So think about that. A 23, 24, 25 year old kid that's going through, works as a call taker for us, already has saved somewhere in the neighborhood of 35 to $50,000 toward their retirement. And you know, we're big about helping

them plan for the future and that compounds. Let me just back up for a second. ESOP stands for Employee Stock Ownership Plan.

That's correct.

And just for our audience to, to kind of wrap your head around, that's something that, if you're, if you're working for a company and they go, now you own part of the company, that's pretty significant. And then for your younger employees to have 35, 000 or more just given to them for the sake of, you're part of our company. If, if that's invested the financially, historically those numbers double every seven to eight years. So in seven years that 35 turns to 77 more years, that 70 turns to 140. And that's with doing nothing but getting the initial amount, you don't stop with that, like they can contribute further. And, and so the compounding is really significant. So that when someone is there for any length of time, and this is, this is like a lesson, whether or not you as A listening audience member. Right. And as an audience member, whether or not your company gives you an esop for you to think about how does your money compound, you know, but to also look for companies that invest back in you, like that's, that's huge. And you know, Sean, what you've created and the kind of the mindset of we, we want our team members to really care about the work they do and to care about the company. I think that's, I think that's beautiful.

Yeah. One of my very first jobs, I'll never forget it, Western Auto got acquired by Sears back in the day and I went to become an assistant manager at Western Auto and one of their tenants was we're going to take care of our employees first. And that so resonated with me and I've carried that throughout my career. And so when rick brought the EAs up forward and being able to use that as a method to not only help Rick retire, but you know, take care of our employees in the process was a, it was a phenomenal plan for us. There is absolutely no reason why we can't have millionaires that retire from New Leaf. And that's, that's really fulfilling, really exciting

for me personally, as it should be. New Leaf is doing some amazing things that, you know, it's kind of paving the way and it's not a, it's not a huge company. How many employees do you have?

So we have about 80 employees that are direct with us and then we have about, about similar number of employees that we have down in El Salvador through a, an outsourced partner that we, we use. So you know, when I think about it in terms, I'm always thinking about it in terms of the whole group, not just the people that we pay directly, but the people we have through our, our outsource partner as well. So we, you know, we operate around 160 people on a daily basis.

It's not, that's not a huge company. That's fantastic. Right. So for you, knowing the 80 that are local, my guess is you know each of them, right? You know something about each of them?

Yeah, I do. Yeah. You know the, and I will tell you, I'm so fortunate that we actually have one employee who has been with us from the very beginning. She was one of the original call takers and she is celebrating her will celebrate her 15th anniversary next February. And so has been through with us from a call taker to becoming a lead to becoming a supervisor. And when I tell you she's one of Those ladies that I think could retire as a millionaire. You know, she's been with us for a long time and is, you know, gaining ownership pretty quickly through the, through the esop. So excited to see those types of people, you know, hanging in there with us so long.

I love that. I think that's, I think it's beautiful the idea of employees first in an organization, you know, so if you own an organization, a lot of times the, the, the thinking is revenue first. Right. How do I make the big sales first? And, and employees, you know, they're expendable. And you know, there's some truth to if you don't have the right person, find the right person. And there's also a great amount of truth to wow. You know, once you find them, invest in them. I think. Wasn't it Richard Branson who said train your employees so well that they could leave and treat them so well that they won't want to? Right. I love that.

Yeah. And let's say, you know, from our perspective, you know, I, we have the belief that if we take care of our employees, they're going to take care of our clients and our clients, customers. Right. Our sole purpose in life as a service contract company is to add value to the brand of the people that are selling the new leaf products. Right. We're the, you think about it in terms of marketing, we're the intel inside. Right. We're the unknown company that powers the service contracts that are sold at, you know, almost 800 retailers across the US and think about that in terms of, there's 30,000 independent retailers and we have 800, I mean a small, small number. Right. And you know, we are there to support their brand, to support their customers, to bring customers back. Right. So we're a high margin product for them that they want to sell, they need to sell, but more importantly, we've got to help them build repeat customers.

That's so good. I'm just, I'm making note. You caught me looking down. I'm making notes. This is awesome. Adding value to clients, supporting the brand. That is what employee first. An employee first culture is. Talk to me a little bit about you and I hadn't done this on a pre call. Do you consider yours a learning organization? Like do you invest and in your team members in learning new things and in growing with the changing world? And how do you do that?

Yeah, that's a, that's a phenomenal question, Dr. Wen. Yeah, we, we do believe in training our people. So you know, we have a training staff, we Have a quality insurance staff that, you know, listens to them phone calls to help people, you know, get better at their daily job. But through our payroll partner, we have access to over 30,000 classes on everything from how to use Excel to how to be a better leader, how to use AI in your business. And we actually pay our employees to learn. We'll pay them up to $1,000 each year by taking classes through our payroll provider. And it's based on the length of the training class. They earn anywhere from 25 to $50 per training class. And we want them to learn, we want better themselves. I tell everybody that comes to work at New Leaf is that, you know, I don't expect that you'll be here for 40 years, but I want you to look back and say, at my time at New Leaf, I learned something that helped me grow in my career. And I believe that growth needs to be more than just I got better at being a call taker, I got better at being a call center leader. I want to teach them things like how to use Excel, how to use Word, how to become a better leader so that they, their career has that exponential growth that you were talking about earlier. Right. And so that's something that we put in place several years ago where we're going to pay you to learn. And you know, it's funny, you got some people that take full advantage of it and then you've got other people that, that don't use it, but those that do are going to have phenomenal long term careers.

So good. What, what are the biggest challenges you faced and what are you facing now? Like, you know, the world has evolved. We're in the space of AI more and more and even synthetic intelligence. Right. So AI and si, where I don't know if you've got challenges around that or if you've got other challenges coming up for yourself. Where have you had the most challenge? What have been the leadership lessons from those challenges and what are you facing now as you move forward?

Yeah, so I'd say we have a couple challenges. And let's start with AI, because that is something that I think a lot of people are talking about right now. And you know, AI is being able to replace customer service agents and things like that. We don't believe that New Leaf has a different view on that. We believe AI should be used in the background, automating processes, making things easier for the people that interact with the people. Right. So when a customer reaches out to us, they really don't want to talk to an Ivr. They don't want to talk to a, a AI agent. They want to speak to somebody that can laugh and joke with them, talk about the sporting event from yesterday, talk about what the president had to say and then help them with their issue. Now AI has a place and that place is really going to make some huge, you know, changes in the long term. But I don't believe a new leaf doesn't approach it, that it should be replacing people that talk to people. And so, you know, we are not taking that position. We're not saying that, you know, customer service agents are going to go away and that our customers are going to be speaking to an AI agent because we've, we've tried a lot of those things over the years. I don't know if you remember several years back Facebook launched their, their agents and we tried that and it just, if it didn't follow steps 1, 2, 3, 4 and it went 1, 4, 6, it fell apart. And so we are going to use AI in the background, but we're not going to replace agents. Right. So that is a big challenge that we, we've talked about quite regularly in our, in our business because I don't think that AI is in a position today to replace people that talk to people now.

I love that. I just wanted to underscore that that AI is great and it's getting better all the time. Ish. And nothing, nothing can replace the people to people connection.

I agree. Where I find AI to be really effective is kind of the analytical searching of the web. Right. If I ask a question about, you know, what is the revenue of this client or this person or you know, it does a great job of searching the web and giving you all that data. In summary, does a phenomenal job of that and it does a great job of if this happens, do A, do B, do C. Right. So when it comes to processing things like sales that come in from our clients and taking those in and putting them into our system, it does a phenomenal job on those types of things. But we don't believe in, again, as I keep saying it, people that talk to people and you know, we're going to make sure we have them. I will tell you our biggest challenge today is finding those people that talk to people. And you know, the, the call center business is looked at as a, an entry level job in the United States. It's not looked at as a potential career for people. And I think that's something that I need to, to help change because there's the opportunity for Growth in that space, you can become a leader, you can become a supervisor. There's a lot of growth opportunity and we need more young people coming into to this space. And in the same token, the people that do the repair work, the people that come out to fix your appliances are going away fast. And as a society I believe that we have done our kids a disservice by saying if you don't go to college, you're not going to make something of yourself. People that do appliance repair, that do plumbing, that do electro electrical work, they can be six figure people in our society very, very quickly. And we need to do more in the trade space. And I would say those are the two biggest challenges that I have is finding people that want to make call center work a career and finding people that want to do repair work on the appliances and electronics that we cover underneath our service contracts.

It's a big deal.

Yeah, it is.

I was talking with automotive repair as well. I mean that's, that's such a huge field and because the way cars are changing the same with appliances, you know, the, the, the electronics that run the appliances, they're changing a lot of the guts. Maybe not, but you know, the, the pump for a dishwasher, it's evolved a little, but the, the electronics that run that pump, that's changed. And, and yeah, we do need people that understand and want to understand and want to do in person interface.

Think about it. I mean GE cells are used to sell a washing machine that could automatically order your detergent for you through Amazon. Right. And, and so thinking about the person that not only can fix that pump, that you're talking about the mechanical piece, but understands the, the WI FI connection and things like that, that has to happen in order. Right? I mean there is a, a great place for somebody that wants, that's good with their hands, that wants to be involved in technology, in the servicing of appliances in the United States.

So let's go personal a little bit for you. What's next for you? I mean you own this company, you own, you know, you've seen it grow. Are you looking to. I know part of it is a retirement plan, you know, years down the road. My question I think really is what do you want to do between now and like what. Where are you taking new leaf as a company? And what's like when you as the president are thinking about succession planning? Are you looking at who's next, who's in line, who you can groom to be this next person and what kind of thoughts Go into that, like, as a leader, how do you know, like, good enough and are you willing to grow them? And like, that's, those are the kinds of things I find fascinating.

Yeah. So, so we have, we, we have a very young, I say very young. He's, you know, just turning 40. CFO. I have a young president and she has been, she's, she's actually been with me for a number of years at various companies and she's, she's the future and our CFO are the future. Those are the two people that I'm going to say in, in five to seven years that I will sell my interest in the company to the esop. And my goal is for those two to take newly forward. And so, you know, I spend a lot of my time in sales and trying to bring in more business today. And I'm starting to get our president involved in that. Right. Because eventually she's going to need to be the face of the company out in the industry, going to trade shows, being involved in the magazine interviews, that type of stuff. And so I bring her into that, that world. And so we've been spending the last couple of years really starting to position her to become the face. Right. And our CFO continues to grow. He's been with us almost 10 years or has been with us for 10 years now. Started out as our, our accounting manager and Rick, my, my business partner groomed him and, you know, we promoted him to the CFO. So over 10 years, you know, we've trained him on the, the financials, the legal aspects, you know, of the service contract space. And so he has done a phenomenal job of learning this business. And so with the two of them, we're going to have a rock solid team going forward. My goal now is to really look at the next level. Who is the, who are the people that are going to replace the people that are going to replace me? Right. So going down two levels and starting to find those people. And we've got one, two people that might fill the roles, but we've got to do a better job of hiring and training that next level. And that's, that's probably where from a leadership people standpoint, that I'm going to focus my time over the next couple of years is trying to find that next level and spend more time personally with those people. Because I, I do think it's important to help our president and our CFO find, you know, the people they're going to replace them. You know, that's your title. Go ahead.

I'm sorry, what is your title?

I'm the, I'm the Chairman and CEO.

You are the. Okay, thank you. Yeah, because I think I had written down president for you. So awesome. So Chairman and CEO. Here's what I love, Sean, is this. You're looking at bench a couple of layers down, right? You're looking at how do I develop, who do I select and how do I develop them. And you're doing it years out. And in my experience doing consulting, most people in your position wait until it's almost too late. Like they wait right up until the last year, oh, I guess I should pick somebody or worse, if they've started the company, they're waiting until somebody pushes them out before they go, oh, I guess I should have, you know, maybe selected somebody. You are years out and you're looking at not only who you have in line to move into your place, you are looking at who, who is possible to step into. Right? And I love the way you say it. Who are the people that could relate replace the people who are going to replace me. And I love that, that I think as a business owner, if you're not thinking that way every day, really you're not thinking in terms of what are your true strengths, right? You've got a people first organization. Who are your people? What do they need, right? What do they need to support you and Dr. Wayne?

I'm a, I'm an accidental entrepreneur, right. So I spent all of my time, you know, in corporates, right. I mean I worked for Sears Wards, large corporations. And you know, my business partner, I'll never forget, he called me one day and he said, hey, if you can, you can bring clients, I can raise the money to start a company. And you know, at the time I was raising a 10 year old daughter and you know, I, I needed the paycheck and so jumping out and becoming an entrepreneur was a, was a very, very, very scary thing for me. Right. I wasn't one of Those guys at 18 that started a business and you know, it grew it all the way around. And so, you know, getting involved and, and you know, struggling for cash in the early days and you know, those are all things that you know, I learned under fire. And you know, Rick taught me some very valuable lessons over time, right. He, he's, I always laugh. He's the guy that can get blood out of a stone, right. And uh, you know, it helped us from a financial perspective get to where we are today, you know, 15 years later.

I love the title like, like if you were to Write a book. That would be a great title. Sean Hicks, the Accidental Entrepreneur. Whoops, I started a business. I love that. Oops, I accidentally stepped in. And yes, entrepreneurship is scary and it's not for everybody. And yet for those that it is for, it's kind of like, well, I learned a lot, right? And, and you hear, you hear these stories or the, the lessons of, you know, you've got to fail, fail fast. And I was pushed against that because it's like, don't start with a failure mentality. It's more. Start with a win mentality. Understanding that winning means that you're going to come up against challenges. Right? And, and there's a difference, like, yes, it's going to be a struggle. You run a business, there are all kinds of moving pieces and parts all along the way. And, and you have to really love what you do and you do, right? You really, you love what you do.

Yeah. I had a, I had a mentor. His name was Jack West. I became a, a service manager at 24 years old, and I had employees that had worked for Sears longer than I had been alive. And you talk about challenges of getting, you know, people in their early 60s to follow you, right? To, to take your lead and say, yes, we're going to do this and we're going to down that path, you know, and I didn't know anything in comparison to some of them, but, you know, I was able to pull out of them, their ideas and take three ideas and make seven. Right. I mean, that was kind of the goal. And Jack west allowed me to make mistakes. He allowed me to make decisions that I had to back up from and say, oh, that one didn't work. Let's go down this path instead. And I think that's key for any leader is you can't penalize mistakes. You've got to use those as true learning opportunities. Right. I mean, there are obviously some death nails, if you will, that are going to get people, you know, fired or something along those lines. Right. But I mean, most mistakes don't impact the business to the degree that you can't use them as learning opportunities. And I try to approach them that way. Right. I try to make sure that I use them as the opportunity to say, next time you're faced with this situation, do it this way versus the way that you did it this time.

So great.

And, and you find that, you know, people, people really learn from that. If you, if you do it that

way, it's, you know, there's, there are cultures that are the gotcha culture. And a lot of my work is around building a culture of caring. And I think that's what you've been talking about is if you can build a culture that instead of says, why did you do it that way? You, you know, which is blameful, you build a culture that says, would you like to know how to do it differently? You know, maybe next time you might want to try this and, and you're supportive. It makes all the difference in people's ability to take risks because it's only in taking those risks that you get creative jumps and creative leaps in how to approach the next level task. Right?

Yeah. It's the only way they're going to, the only way they're going to grow is, you know, is to make, to make a mistake, to, to, to learn the process of decision making. Right. I mean, there's. My favorite coach, as you can probably tell, is, is Nick Saban. And you know, he has the process on focusing on the task at hand, not the overall score of the game. Right. It's not about winning and losing. It's about, what am I doing today? What am I going to do now? What is the process to use here? And if you focus on that, you're going to ultimately win. And that's where I try to bring those lessons to our company. Where, what is it that we do to pay a claim? What are the 10 steps in that process? What can we do to improve that process? And when you're paying a claim, if you make a mistake, what did you do? What can we change in the process so that that mistake doesn't happen again? And, and so by following that theory, you know, we try to make new leaf 1% better every day.

That 1% compounds.

There you go.

Yeah, right. That's amazing. What's the process and what can we do now? I think those are, those are huge questions for any individual and for any business. What's your process? Right. You know, and that could be as an individual, that could be from the time you wake up to the time you go to bed. What's your process during the day? How do you, how do you approach your day? And are you walking through it or are you welcoming it? And, and are you willing to risk a little bit to do something slightly different? Or are you locked into what always has been? And, and that's like, that's a very fine line of creativity against proven process. Right. And, and as a leader, you want to see someone go, well, I thought I'd try this. It's like that's awesome. You know, you tried. Didn't work the way you thought, but it actually gave us some new insights. So, you know, good for you. Next time, try that.

Something that I have found, Dr. Wayne, is just because I tried something 10 years ago doesn't mean it wouldn't work today.

Correct.

Right. And so, you know, never discount an idea because, you know, as you said earlier on in our conversation here, you know, business evolves, society evolves, people evolve. And what didn't work yesterday might work today. And you always need to kind of bring those ideas forward.

Oh, I love that. That may be where we bring our session to a close. What. Was there something that you were hoping we'd talk about that we didn't get to?

You know, it was the esop, I think, was probably one of my most important things I wanted to talk about. We got to that and, you know, I would highly encourage small business owners to, to think about that as a, as an exit strategy for them. You know, it's a, it's a great way to motivate the people and bring them into, into the ownership.

I've seen it work in multiple organizations. Yeah, it's been. Yeah, it's. And, and as a business owner, if your business looks into it, you might find that there are tax advantages. I am their tax advisor. So, you know, find the right person. That said, it's worth looking into.

Yeah. And if you ever have anybody that reaches out to you that wants to talk about an esop, I would be more than happy to have conversations with them. So I, I'd invite you to send them my way.

That's awesome. Well, speaking of that, Sean Hicks, how can people reach you?

Perfect. So my email address is Sean S E A Nuleaf S C Samcharlie.net or you can reach me on my cell phone at 817-913-7015. And any retailer that reaches out, you know, we would give you a free assessment of your current program and your current management of your program, whether you use new LEAF or not. We, we want to help you grow your business on the long term, and we take a look at it and give you a written assessment of our thoughts of your successfulness in the cell of service contracts in your retail business.

That's also. Well, that's. I was going to say that's awesome. Also, you're on LinkedIn as well, so people can find you there. I think it's amazing. Not too many people freely give out their cell phones, so thank you for that, Sean. S E A N New Leaf SC Like South Carolina?

No, it's New Leaf SC South Carolina.net oh, sorry.

I'm so glad that, that we. We. Okay. New Leaf SC New Leaf SC.net Sean@NewLeafSC.net 817-913-7015 and on LinkedIn. Sean Hicks, amazing. Always just lovely to talk to you. I really appreciated being able to talk to you prior to our call and being able to do this with you today. Just amazing. And anything else you want to say or you think we've pretty much covered what you wanted?

No, I. I think spend some time on One Sharp Sword. I think everybody will learn something. I know I have. So thank you.

That's great. All right, well, Sean Hicks has been my guest. It has been amazing. This is one Sharp sword cutting through to what matters Most. And I'm Dr. Wayne Purnell, your host, guide and coach on this journey. We'll see you again here next time. Thanks for joining us. Thanks for listening to One Sharp Sword cutting through to what Matters Most with outfluencer Dr. Wayne Purnell. For more information, please go to onesharpsword.com.