Reimagining Hiring: Speed, Humanity, and the Future of Work with Ann DiFrancesco

You're listening to One Sharp Sword, cutting through to what matters most with Outfluencer, Dr. Wayne Pernell. Welcome to One Sharp Sword, cutting through to what matters most. I'm your host, guide, and coach on this journey, Dr. Wayne Pernell. My guest today has spent over 20 years in recruiting, staffing, and running a job board. After seeing how the hiring industry was broken and stuck, she used COVID as her incentive to dive in and redesign the whole process. Anne DiFrancesco is the co-founder of Gahooza, built to reimagine how people connect to opportunity. This is a conversation about speed, humanity, and what it really takes to challenge an industry that's been stuck for decades. Welcome to One Sharp Sword, Anne DiFrancesco.

Hi, thank you so much for having me on. It's nice to see you.

Oh, it's great to have you. This is so great. So, gahooza, let's start with that. The name and it's AI-powered to help interview and hiring in the marketplace. So talk a little bit about that and then I'm going to ask you a little more about you.

Sure. I got to preface this conversation that it's allergy season right now, so my eyes are tearing a little bit. So that's just to let you know. Yeah, Kahuzah is a different name for sure. That's what we wanted. It was intentional. We were looking for something outside of the box, nothing with hire, talent, interview like that inside the name because that's been done obviously and overused. So we wanted something that would stick in people's mind even if they couldn't pronounce it. We thought that was good because then it would stick. And Gahooza is actually from— it's Rwandan and it means to connect. So we thought that was a good starting place. We actually came up with 6 names and then we put it to a vote and each of those names obviously had the.ca,.com available. That was obviously clearly important. And then we put it to the vote, to a vote, and I think it was unanimous. We all liked Kahuzza.

That's awesome. Kahuzza, to connect. That's awesome. So I mean, your journey, has been kind of, uh, no leader's journey is, is a direct line. And you were in the hiring industry in many roles up to the point of actually founding Gehuza. What moved you? What really was the driving force from being inside a broken system to finally saying we are going to redesign this from the ground up? Because it's kind of groundbreaking, you know. There are others out there. I think you're among the very first to be doing it this way. And, and, and so what made you say, you know what, it's me? Because I think that's a— I think that's a, that's a huge thing that's inside each of us, like, if only I could, right? And you did.

So that's a great question. Yeah. Um, Well, for years, we just accepted things how they were, which was very slow and frustrating. Basically, you get an order from a client as part of our staffing division, as an example, to find them candidates. And just getting from having that order, having the need, to actually interviewing qualified interested candidates, it got to a point where it was almost insurmountable with all the time and the frustration and the money involved in doing that. And I'm sure you've heard of the ghosting phenomenon, which rampant really on both sides of the hiring equation, both from the candidates ghosting the recruiters and then recruiters ghosting candidates from the perspective of they submit applications and never hear anything back, right? So, You know, this was just really accepted and certainly accepted by us for many years, but it was just getting worse and worse. And then COVID hit. And, you know, we were from Canada, my co-founders and I. And when COVID hit, you know, we were running a job board, the Staffing Firm Division, and we were also running a series of events, the largest career fairs in Canada. We also ran the Toronto Entrepreneurs Conference, which had become quite large and Basically all of our revenue streams and our lines of business, we were just shut down. We had some of the strictest lockdowns in Canada and there wasn't much happening at all. So full disclosure, I am married to my co-founder. So Mark Bilej and I, we've been running torontojobs.ca for over 20 years. And when we were locked down with COVID we just You know, we walked, we walked 3 kilometers a day plus. Our poor dog got a little bit tired towards the end and we had to sort of cut our walk short for her and then do another one. But yeah, like we just walked and we just started really fixating on the problems and the issues in the industry. And you know, what was interesting is with TorontoJobs.ca, so the job board and the recruitment side, our niche client was the small to medium business. But on the event side, to sponsor the events, we had enterprise-level clients. And, you know, as salespeople inherently, we would obviously ask our sponsored clients, you know, what do they use for their staffing needs in the hopes to get them over to the torontojobs.ca side. And, you know, these were interesting conversations 'cause it didn't matter who we were talking to, what platform they were using, which job board they were using, everybody had the same issues and no one was happy. So these are some of the things that we chatted about on our walks. And we're like, you know, AI was just a little whisper at the time, but we knew, we knew that it was going to come in really strong in a post-COVID world. And, you know, our kids were grown and we're like, you know, torontojobs.ca was a bit of a lifestyle business. We were comfortable, but like, if anyone can do this, why can't it be us? We have the perspective from so many different sides from owning the job board, from being the staffing firm, from talking to multiple, you know, thousands of candidates at our career fairs and seeing it from all angles. Like, why can't it be us to build the problem, or sorry, to fix the problems in the industry? Why not us? Toronto's the third largest recruiting hub in North America. So it just made sense that, you know, we could do it. And we just started brainstorming what that would look like. But we also saw that anything new that was coming to the table was just focused on one side or the other, like focused on helping the recruiter experience or focused on helping the candidate experience. But what we wanted to do and what was really important to us was focus on improving the experience for everyone. Because candidates, as frustrated as recruiters were and businesses were, and our candidates are just as frustrated. Sorry, frustrated. Their experience has been horrible for decades. I don't think anyone will tell you any different that's in the industry. So we wanted to make sure that whatever we did was improving, it was an improvement for everyone. And, you know, as the product roadmap appeared and as it started moving along, we saw that it was fixing even more problems that were starting to come out that hadn't even been an issue pre-COVID. So yeah, that's kind of been our journey and how we got to where we are.

That is a great journey. Here's the, you know, I pull out little tidbits along the way. I particularly love the statement, if anyone can do this, why can't it be us? You know, I think that that's so important that if you have an idea and it can help everyone, right? You're helping not just the, the hiring managers or the organization, you are helping the candidates to feel better about the whole process. And Um, that's— I just, I love that. If anyone can do this, why can't it be us? If you've got an idea, why not pursue it? I love that. So exactly.

Thank you.

Yeah, so good. Um, you're— I mean, a lot of times as people develop and grow, their The biggest thing that holds them back is the question, why can't it be us? But also, why should it be me? Like, why should it be me? And what's going to be expected of me as I make this move? And I see that as an identity shift. You were in the hiring industry for 20 years. That is a very particular identity. And now you are moving into we are AI tech driven to smooth the process. That's a very different identity. Talk a little bit about that identity shift. What was that for you?

Oh, that's a, that's another good question. Yeah, like, you know, you kind of hit on something and I think there's a name for it. Identity crisis or identity—

there's a name I'm trying to think of, but that's a good name because that, that is what happens. You know, I think when we talk about, for example, a midlife crisis, you know, people basically get to a point where they go, I did all the things I was supposed to do. I'm now living the life I'm quote unquote supposed to have. How come I feel unfulfilled? There's got to be more. And that's the identity crisis of, am I really— is this all there is? Is this life? And so I guess my question then to you is, is that where you got to? Like, is this all there is in the hiring industry? Is that what made the shift? And then did you know what you'd have to grow into? Hmm.

No, we didn't know exactly where we were going or what it would grow into. Definitely not. As anyone who starts out building something new. And even in careers, because I often coach a lot of, you know, younger people, my daughter's friends, et cetera, about the career cycle. And it's never a straight line, right? It's the path is always like this. And similarly, when you're building something new, same thing happens, right? We call it the pivot. So yeah, we never really pivoted from the main thing, which is, you know, getting to that live interview in 15 minutes. How and the why and some of the other things, um, you know, we moved around a little bit. Um, but yeah, uh, you had asked me two questions in that and I've already—

basically it's who, who did you become? You, you had an identity in one arena and you had to grow into this new identity, right? So easy saying, you know, no, leaving behind what you knew. So Talk a little bit about that.

Yeah, so it was imposter syndrome was the word— words I was looking for.

Oh, I got you. Okay.

Yeah, so Mark and I will be the first to tell you we're not techies. We're not techies at all. We're not coders, right? So obviously we would need someone to do that side for us. We understood the business and all sides of it very well, but we are not coders. We are not tech people. Our third co-founder is our CTO, our chief technology officer. And obviously he does the tech and he has developers under him and that's who handles that. But yeah, there has been like, early on, I think I'm now coming into my own, so to speak, because I had that, I'm going to say a little bit of lack of confidence. I was confident in what we knew in the industry. And why not us? But the whole tech side and a little bit of imposter syndrome and that kind of was coming into play in my mind, right? But I realized I just sort of, in talking with Mark and Ray, it's just like, you know what, it's okay. We understand the business side really well. So we can have coders that would create a tech platform for recruiters, but not understand the pain, like not have lived it, not have experienced it. So, you know, just be confident in what we know, and then just rely on, you know, our tech people to do the tech side. So that gave me a lot more confidence. And probably I'm going to say I was a little, you know, just coming from, Canada initially, there's, you know, it's very different in the US in that a lot of the, there's real community around job boards and staffing firms, which is fantastic. And there's a lot of sharing of ideas. And I just think it's just a little more so than what you'd see happen in Canada. So initially I thought, well, you know, maybe maybe things work differently, or maybe they know more, or maybe this or maybe that. But you know what? No, like, we know this industry, it works the same. People that have problems here, they have problems in the hiring process, have the same problems in the US, have the same problems. Now we're talking to a lot of people globally. The problems exist everywhere. And we're pretty confident we know how to fix it and we're confident in what we've built and where we're going with it. So yeah, I had to get over a little bit of a hump there initially, but, you know, and it's a process. Everything's a process, right?

Everything is a process. A, in Canadian, a process. It's a process. It is either way. I really appreciate the imposter phenomenon thing, um, and I think that you made a really good point, and that is around, you know what you know, and you choose to expand beyond what you know, which is uncomfortable, and you choose not to have to learn at all. You hire the people who are also experts in their thing that know what they know. This is like— I'm pointing this out because It is the path to success if you stick with your core genius area and you expand that genius area just a bit. You don't have to know everything else, right? And so I love that. And I think this is true. We're talking hiring and the hiring industry here, but this is true whether you are interested in sports or cars or baking or whatever it is, it's like, know what you know, right? Yeah. And grow from there. So, you've created a process that makes hiring, like the hiring time is collapsed. Your whole thing is we're gonna collapse this to 15 minutes. It doesn't have to be longer. Right? And so how do you make sure that in doing that you're not disrupting nuance, you're not stripping away humanity? Like, sure, right? Speed and efficiency at this— at the cost of what?

Yeah. Um, so just to be clear, what we're collapsing is, uh, the time-to-interview funnel, uh, right? So in the past, it could take anywhere from, you know, a really good big staffing for maybe 7 days, maybe if they were lucky. But a business, 36, 42 days, right? Um, you know, for the entire hiring process, but for interviews, 3, 4 weeks. Um, so, and then it just, it can go up from there. So it really depends on the business, the type of role, etc. But, uh, regard any way you looked at it, it took too long. So Again, we were just focused on the time of need to the time that you're interviewing qualified and interested candidates. That's our hyperfocus, and that's what Kahuzah does. So in terms of human connection, yeah, we wanted to bring that right up to the front of the process because we firmly believe that it's a human that can understand nuance, can understand fit, culture fit with the company, etc. So you're never going to be able to erase the human from the process. I can't imagine. I mean, maybe if we're all robots one day, I don't know. But I know if I have a company that I'm looking to hire staff for, I'm going to want to meet the person, right? Or have one of our managers meet the person. Like, you're not just going to have someone show up, right? Um, so we didn't want to eliminate the human in the process, and we didn't want it way at the very end. We wanted it at the beginning of the process. And in order to do that, I mean, there's matching— everybody— I shouldn't say everybody, but there's a lot of matching technology out there, and it's great, and it does speed up the process. But then, um, a lot of, um, technology gives you a bottleneck, which is, yeah, you've got the matches, but now you've got to call them, you've got to schedule them, you've got to make sure that they are the matches. And so we wanted to eliminate bottlenecks, I guess, basically in a nutshell, we wanted to eliminate bottlenecks. There was the— before COVID there was the bottleneck of sourcing, the bottleneck of screening, the bottleneck of scheduling, then ghosting, another bottleneck. So if we could collapse it like— and we can from need 15 minutes for the first candidate interview. Obviously, you know, if you— I should probably step back and explain a little bit how it works just so you can picture it better.

But yeah, the process.

Yeah, so the process. So for a candidate, basically both sides, it's 3 steps. So let's talk about the candidate first. For a candidate, step 1 is they upload their resume. Step 2, they would receive a notification when an employer is online. Online interviewing for a job that is matched for them. And step 3 is they can accept the invitation to interview and enter the platform. On the recruiter side, again, it's 3 steps. One, they upload their job. Two, they press a button. Now they only press the button when they're actually ready to interview because we're that fast and we tell them, don't press the button and think you're going to interview tomorrow. No, press the button when you're ready to start interviews. And it's a process. It's a paradigm shift, right? Because this is completely new. It's something that didn't exist before. So there's obviously a bit of education piece to it as well. But yeah, so they press, so they upload the job details, they press that button when they're ready to interview, and 3, they start interviewing live. So what happens when they press the button? Our AI in milliseconds will immediately identify candidates that are matched and instantly notify them. With an invitation to interview so they could receive it by text, by email, by push to the app, the candidate. And they would say, hey, you've been matched to this great job. We found your resume on— it could be on Gehooza, it could be on TorontoJobs.ca, it could be on any other job board partners that we're partnered with. It could be in a staffing firm's own ATS. So we found your resume, click here. To look at the job details, and then they click and they review the job details, and then they have options. They can accept the invitation to interview and jump onto the recruiter's— into the recruiter's interview lobby. They can say, I'm interested but not available yet. Now, we don't encourage that because it's a speed thing, right? If someone else gets in there that might have the same qualifications or better, they may get the role, right? But sometimes you just can't. So they can say that. Or they can say not interested, or they can refer a friend. So there's lots of options for them. So that's how it works. So if you're a recruiter that's pressed the button, you'll see in your interview lobby candidates beginning to enter your lobby. And before you start an interview, you can look at the resume just to make sure our matching system is working properly. But we're always testing it as well. And then you can start the interview. You can record the interview as well. And then after that, we also offer skill tests and background checks. Right on the platform. So that's effectively how we've, you know, collapsed the time to interview funnel. And from there, it's obviously collapsed the time to hire as well.

That's great. So you use the acronym ATS, which, just to spell it out, is Applicant Tracking System, right? Yeah. So that's, that's just kind of like it's, it's the behind the scenes words.

Right. Sorry, you get immersed into your, into your world. And yeah, my co-founders always tell me, stop using those acronyms. But you're right. So a staffing firm, when they interview a candidate, they will input the candidate into their applicant tracking system because that candidate maybe doesn't get the role that they're looking for right now, but might be good for a role later on. So they're inputting the candidate, they're putting in interview notes about the candidate and in the hopes that they can find a role for that candidate at some point in the future. So, Gahooza can tap into these sources for the client. And, you know, for staffing firms, it eliminates what's called recency bias, which is another industry term.

But it's actually— it's a psychology term, primacy and recency bias, because it's— you remember the first thing you saw and you remember more strongly the most recent thing you saw.

Exactly. Exactly. So what the way the staffing firm uses it is it's exactly that. But basically when they get a role, they usually post the job or advertise it somewhere and then they interview candidates and then they put it into their applicant tracking system. And then when they get the next role, instead of looking at the applicant tracking system, they go through the same process again. So what happens is this database again, applicant tracking system that they've built. It's costly for them because it's recruiter's time. It's possibly posting job ads, that type of thing. Very costly, but they're not really maximizing their ROI because every time they get a new role, it's just very automatic for that recruiter to again place the ad and go through the process again. So this happens. You can ask any staffing firm owner across the world. I'm sure they'll be complaining about recency bias. So what Kahuzaa can do is tap in simultaneously into their applicant tracking system, into databases that we partner with all at the same time to find the best matches. And that way, you know, we can improve their ROI, return on investment, on their applicant tracking system. There's another acronym, right?

Or initialism. Yes. Here, I have 2 questions for you. Sure. One is, and they're different, they're very different, but they're in my head and you get them both. Here, here they are. One is, do you coach your applicant pool or individual applicants for how to make the, the tech sort better in their favor, right, for particular jobs or particular job areas? Is that coaching? Is that something that's done online? And part two Or separate question, question number 2 is when you introduce a new system, a new technology, there's resistance, right? So like people are not used to, we've always done it this way. It's a terrible saying. And yet people are reluctant to let go of what they know. What kind of resistance, either personally or professionally, did you come against? When you created Gehooza. So 2 questions. Yeah, right.

You got to give them to me one at a time.

Okay. The first one is, the first one is, how do you help your applicants sort through, you know, now they're, now they're engaging in AI that in a split second can say you're right match for here, you're not for here. How do you coach your applicants so that they actually do match for the right jobs?

Yeah. So, okay, so first of all, there's no application, right? On Gahooza, we've obliterated the application. So gone. So they're only getting invitations to interview when an employer is interviewing live for a job that is a match for them. So that's number one.

How do they know to match though?

Like, how does who know?

How does either one of them know?

Okay, so yeah, first of all, the AI is the one doing the matching, right? Um, so AI is matching to the job, the resume to the job details. It goes beyond what's called Boolean search, which was just simple keywords, and kind of takes experience as a whole. Um, so that's number one. Um, number two, uh, the recruiter— so let's talk about recruiter and candidate separately. So the recruiter, they're uploading their job details. We have something called Job Analyzer on our platform so they can run it through the Job Analyzer and the Job Analyzer can flag it for things that it might be missing, etc., just to expand on it to make it a better match, right? That's the recruiter side. Oh, also on the recruiter side, before they actually hit interview on anyone, they can actually quickly look at a resume. If they want to, just to make sure it's working properly so they're not wasting any time. Because we're not about wasting time. That's— we, you know, we're about fixing that problem. So that's number one. On the candidate side, this is very unique and it's very timely, I think, especially with all the other HR tech that's coming out now with the bots and the chatbots and the asynchronous videos. What we do is we offer a resume analyzer. So the candidate, once they upload their resume, they can click on the analyzer, run it through the analyzer, and see how our AI reads them. So now they know exactly how our AI reads them, and they have the opportunity to fix it, correct it, expand on it. And of course, our analyzer will offer suggestions. And so that now this, both the job analyzer and the resume analyzer, it just makes that match so much better, right? And then just to expand further on the candidate side, once they receive their invitation to interview, they can look at the job, right? They don't have to say yes. If they don't want that job or not interested in that job, they can certainly say yes. And first of all, that gives them agency in the process that they never had before, right? Secondly, that doesn't waste— if they decide they are interested, then they're interested, right? They've shown their hands to the recruiter on the other side. And this is a huge hurdle, one of the 3 largest hurdles that we used to have, right? So finding the candidate, making sure they're a match, making sure they're interested, these are big hurdles. So this is how we tackle that. I think I answered that.

Yes, you did. That's so great. I was smiling as you were talking because years ago, in what feels like another lifetime, I was the director of HR for a large organization and the process, like, just step by step and long and costly and all of that. And here's like, here's a stack of people, or even like, here's a handful of people. Ta-da! Amazing. Really great.

And now it's so much worse because the stack is like thousands, right? Like, it can be thousands. And it's just, it's it's impossible. Yeah. And then there's tech that helps candidates mass apply, which boggles up the system. And yeah, it's, you know, so there are a lot of problems out there right now that we didn't anticipate that we would be able to solve. But yeah, it's just, it's been an interesting journey to say the least.

So in this day, it's sort of like, oh please, anything that speeds the process, at least to my mind. I'm not sure— this goes to the second question that I, that I started to ask you, which was, as you are offering new technology, there is a, a sense of, this isn't the way we used to do things. What kind of resistance are you finding, or are you seeing that a lot of people are like, oh, finally we're able to cut through this, or is it like, well you know, we don't know what you do, we don't know how it's going to work for us. Like, how does resistance show up, or how widely are you being accepted at this point?

Sure. Again, I think I have to separate sort of the recruiter side, uh, from the candidate side because it's different. Um, so let's talk about the candidate first because that was easy. Um, well, easier, let's, let's say. Um, when you explain to the candidate the process on Gahooza versus the process they had before, which was really, really frustrating for them. Time-consuming. I mean, think about it. They had to search for the roles, then they had to— yeah, I guess I'm kind of a fit— like tweak the resume, tweak the COVID letter, tweak the resume, apply, not hear back, rinse and repeat. Right. And we're talking upwards of 90% not hearing back. And, you know, it's— there's more candidates now, fewer jobs. I mean, this obviously changes, it goes up and down over time. But, but yeah, it's been a frustrating process. So when you tell them about Kahuzo, you don't have to do anything, just upload your resume and we'll let you know. They think it's great. So that was not difficult. You know, there's a little bit of maybe, well, what if I'm not dressed properly or what about this? What about that? So You know, basically it is a paradigm shift. It is a bit of a change. I mean, things have become more casual over time. Like back 20 years ago, people were still wearing suits and, you know, proper dress for interviews, and they were actually physically going into offices. But that has changed over time. I mean, we do recommend, you know, that you're you are in a place that's quiet enough that you can have a conversation. So if you have to move somewhere when you get the notification, then you do that. Typically recruiters are online for about an hour or so when they hit the button. So there's usually a bit of time and then there's a little bit of pushback. Well, I can't research the company, I can't whatever. Well, employers know this and they will sacrifice that 3, 4, 5 weeks of time to get to the 15-minute interview. So they don't expect you to be an expert on the company. They realize that there's a bit of give and take there, and the upside for them is so huge that that's okay. You can open up other browsers while you're waiting for the interview to start. So if you wanted to do a quick check on the company, you can always do that. But yeah, so there's a bit of education piece on that side. But candidates overwhelmingly are saying, yeah, sign me up, like, let's go. Like, that sounds way better. So that's been positive, obviously. And then on the recruiter side, yeah, definitely explaining that don't press the button unless you're ready to interview. That was a little bit difficult for sure. And we still have to do that, right? We're still where we're, you know, contacting clients and saying, yeah, you press the button, we've got candidates there for you. So go ahead, start the interview. Right. So that is a little bit of an education piece that we're still working through. But we anticipate as more staffing firms join, as more job boards join, as more people press the button, you know, this will just become more commonplace. So yeah, definitely a little bit of an education piece.

Let me jump in real fast with another side question based on my history and in working with CHROs around the world. Actually, I was going to say across the country, around the world where there's this sense of, I talked about humanity earlier. There's a sense of humanity that comes through a cover letter. And you had said, we're eliminating the COVID letters. And I know that a lot of directors of HR want to see, can the person write? Can they string something together? Do they know who we are? Does their personality come through at all? And you're saying that is no longer a factor, nor does it need to be. Let's get to the interview, and from there you're gonna decide. wow, this person has a personality or not, right?

Yeah. Uh, well, certainly over video, I think you can assess the personality fit, uh, with certain questions. Um, in terms of writing, uh, assignments, there are skill tests that you can do after. You can ask, um, for, uh, pieces of information. But remember, we're talking about that first interview. You may, um, have another manager interview the candidate afterwards, right? There may be a second interview, there may be a third. It really depends on the recruiter who's pressing the button or the employer, what their process is. But in order to speed up the time to that first interview with an interested matched candidate, that's the hurdle. That's where the time, the frustration, and money is. That's what we're eliminating. Beyond that, if you want to do your skill test, if you want to do a second interview, do all that. We're not stopping you from doing that at all. In fact, we help you again with offering over, I think it's like 500 skill tests on the platform and background checks as well. So yeah, but definitely the human is the one that needs to determine that those human nuances that only humans can. That's, that's something that we're pretty, pretty psyched about.

That's awesome. Uh, this is great, and thank you. I, uh, I don't know if I've asked you everything that you were expected to be asked, like asked by me, or if there was something you were hoping we would cover that we didn't cover.

Well, I had no idea what you were going to ask. There's actually one thing that I do want to say is when, um, a candidate gets that notification interview, it's like a dopamine hit for them. They get very excited because, hey, I'm, I'm wanted, like somebody wants me, someone's interested in me. And the effect of that is actually pretty huge, especially if it says, I'm, hi, and we found your resume on Monster.com as an example. We found your resume on TorontoJobs.ca. So that is branding for the job board. It could be branding for the staffing firm because it would say the staffing firm's name on it. Branding for Yahooza. Because it is a huge dopamine hit for them. And we found, you know, that they tell people. So when we initially integrated our torontojobs.ca platform into Gehooza, we got all these resumes coming in. It was actually an 8 times increase in resume intake. And we didn't understand what was happening at first because this was all new to us too. But we knew that we took a year in testing the system. And so we were pressing, our recruiters were pressing that button over and over again. And then we realized Okay, they're telling people, they're telling people all about it. So, so yeah, I just wanted to, to mention that as well.

That's great. Word is spreading and you have every right to be proud. It's really great. What you've created really is groundbreaking. And thank you. Yeah, it's, it's so, it's, it's very special. It's why I wanted to have a conversation with you. If people want to find out more, it's guhuza.com.

Mostly focused for Toronto jobs, um, and yet actually we can help staffing firms across North America.

Oh, all of North America?

Yeah, that's amazing. If they have an applicant tracking system that we can tap into, we can certainly help them with their recency bias. And we are in conversations with onboarding job board partners in the US right now as well. So, um, Yeah, amazing.

Good. That's great news. That's great news. So again, Guhuza is G-U-H-U-Z-A, um, and, and it means connecting.

To connect.

To connect. Yes. Uh, that's so good.

Thank you. Thanks for your time.

Yeah, well, thanks for being here. Any other way, like, if you wanted— do you want people to reach out to you directly or just— or find you through Guhuza?

They can reach out to me on LinkedIn. They can connect with me there and we can take it from there.

Awesome. So I'm going to spell your name so that it is easily found. So again, Guhuza, G-U-H-U-Z-A, and Ann is without an E, so it's A-N-N, and on LinkedIn, Ann DeFrancesco, DeFrancesco, just I emphasize the wrong syllables. Okay, it's ridiculous. Anne DeFrancesco is, uh, is D-I-F-R-A-N-C-E-S-C-O. Anne DeFrancesco. And, um, again, thank you for being here. Really appreciate it.

And thanks for your time so much. Have a great day.

All righty, this is One Sharp Sword, cutting through to what matters most. I'm your host, your guide, your coach on this journey, Dr. Wayne Pernell. We'll see you here Next time. Thanks for listening to One Sharp Sword, cutting through to what matters most with outfluencer Dr. Wayne Pernell. For more information, please go to onesharpsword.com.