Bollywood's Best Sales Person - Richard Lovatt
In this episode of the Sales Bro Pod, host Dylan Vergara (Speaker A) interviews UK‑born high‑ticket closer Richard Lovatt (Speaker B), who lives and works in India while also pursuing an acting career. The conversation begins with Richard’s background – a decade running a fitness agency, training celebrities, and transitioning into high‑ticket sales via Closeify. He explains how his acting and audition experience make sales calls feel natural, allowing him to adopt a bold, direct style. Richard walks through his signature call structure: listening to a setter call, surfacing a specific pain point immediately, skipping traditional rapport, and using a concise “yes‑or‑no” close that frames the call as a decision point. He critiques the popular “doctor frame” and argues that high‑value prospects need to be challenged rather than comforted. Tonality, pacing, and phrasing are emphasized as crucial to avoid sounding salesy. The interview covers his hiring philosophy (seeking confidence, rejecting scripted frameworks like Jeremy Miner’s), his disdain for Alex Hormozi’s objection‑handling mantra, and his approach to pre‑empting objections before the pitch. Richard shares how he trains and manages a team of closers, constantly iterating scripts, and achieving 40‑50% close rates on high‑profile leads. He recommends resources such as Closeify, Bowtie Sales Guy, and Bowtie’s community, and suggests following Bowtie Sales Guy and Grant Cardone for further learning. The discussion also touches on detaching from outcomes, maintaining consistent performance, and his future plans to expand his acting career while continuing high‑ticket closing. The episode ends with contact details and advice for aspiring closers.
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What's up, y'all? Sales Bro Pod, episode 3. Today we got Mr. Closed and Paid, or Closed and Fucking Paid, Richard here. Richard, thank you for coming on. I know we're in completely different time zones right now, literally opposite sides of the world. So thank you.
Yeah, thanks for having me on, brother. I know it's fucking early as hell over there, but it's like 7 PM my time here, so.
Yeah, I'm sure you've been ripping calls all day or what?
No, bro, I'm in India, right? So I'm 12 hours ahead of you guys, maybe more. And my day starts around 7:30 and goes to like 2:00 AM. And through the day, I'm like doing acting workshops and stuff like that. I don't know if people know this about me, by the way. It's like everyone sees me on Twitter closing pay, but they don't realize I'm semi a full-time actor.
Yeah. Yeah. I was gonna ask you the, the profile picture, is that you?
Yeah, it's like an AI version, I guess.
Okay. 'Cause I was like, I was like this, it almost looks like one of those profile pictures that these people just like put on their profile 'cause it looks cool. But I was like, then I was kind of, I don't know, comparing. I was like, that, that looks like him. Like, is that him? So yeah, you look like an actor for sure. Um, but this one, this one, we, we kind of are running on a time crunch. We, it's gonna be super value packed for new people, existing people. Um, but I guess the best spot for us to start so that people can really understand what, like, who Richard is, is like a little bit of your background, man. Like, when did this sales stuff really start for you? How soon did it, did it turn into what it is? And We'll go from there.
Yeah, I don't want to make it really long because I could go on, but since 2011, 2012, I ran my own fitness agency for like 10 years more. And within that, I trained people online and I trained celebrities and stuff in India. And so I was just selling all the time and that kind of just gives you your own experience of closing to a certain degree. You know, and I was selling packages to work with me one-to-one. It's like $10K a month type thing.
Wow.
And this gave me the experience like to just do it for other companies. Do you know what I mean? Like I've got the experience and yeah, I just jumped into doing it on Closeify and like, yeah.
Cool. Yeah, I was on Closeify too to start. What are you, I'm curious, what are your ties to India? Like you don't take me as somebody who'd be from India, so What are you doing over there?
Right. This is a long story again, but I got known in the UK from doing my fitness shit, right? I used to write blogs and just rip into people, and then people picked it up. And essentially some semi-famous people in the bodybuilding world found out about me and said to me, like, hey, come and work for us. And at the same time, do you want to go to India and do you want to train this celebrity out in India? And I was like, Fuck no, I don't want to do that. And then they were like, no, Rich, come on, it's 3 months. We're going to pay you like this amount. I was like, oh, okay, let's do it. And then after being there 2 weeks, bro, I fucking love the place. And I was like, I'm just staying here. But bearing in mind, before that at uni, I did film and TV. So when I got to India, I was training celebrities, but I was in the film world the whole time. So I was like, everyone was saying to me, why don't you start auditioning? You know, why don't you start looking into this stuff? So I was like, hey, do you know what? I'll do it. And I just started auditioning like all the time. I was there 7 years auditioning all the time.
Nice. So are you from the UK originally?
Yeah.
Yeah.
Cool.
Cool. Well, shoot, man. I feel like most of, most of the guys that get into sales, they have some of that like entrepreneurial spirit. Like they, they wanna make money fast. I feel like you probably have that in you, but you also came in from a, an angle different from a lot of people. It's like you're, you're doing this whole acting route. I'd assume you're good at it if you've been doing it for so long. Um, bro, and I can, I'm here.
Sorry to butt in. I'm doing like a fucking massive film in India right now. It's like a lead role and the lead role is in purely Hindi. So it's a fucking massive film I'm filming right now. I've got to do singing, I've got to do dancing and all this shit. But coming back to your point, honestly, the best thing about my experience, yes, I've done sales for a long time, but honestly, the acting makes sales piss easy. Like, if you can stand in front of a massive camera on set, hundreds of people behind the camera staring at your ass, Lights there and then the director's going action and you have to speak in another language. Bro, if you can do that, like, sales calls is so easy.
Yeah, I was gonna ask you, you speak the language fluently? Nice.
You would think so if you heard me. Like, I can memorize scripts and you'd be like, oh, Rich knows the language. But it's like, I'm just good at remembering it, you know? Yeah.
Okay. Yeah, I could really see how those skills translate Uh, from one another. I do have a list of topics here, uh, some really juicy, juicy stuff. Is there any particular order that you wanted to tackle this stuff or just kind of rip through it?
Well, I was thinking like, let's just go through how I set up a call because I feel like so many people get value from how I— the foundations and what I put in place. And I think automatically it will go into some of the stuff I sent you, right?
Right? Yeah.
Just, I just wanted to mention like Bowtie Sales Guy. Like, I remember when I first started following him and I'm sure people follow him who listen to him. I remember thinking like, fuck, this guy's like speaking how I do my sales calls. Do you know what I mean?
Yeah.
Like straight to the point frame type stuff, like pushing away, like being in control of calls. And a lot of my stuff I've set up around that type of framework. I don't really do any of this rapport shit unless there's honestly something that I feel that I really need to say from listening to a call beforehand. But honestly, the way I start literally every single call is the same, is always the same. And I'm guessing people here, if they're listening and they're closers, Not always you'll have a setter call, but I, in our company, there's always a setter call beforehand and I will always listen to it and I'm just listening out to one pain point in particular and I'm literally gonna bring that up the first second I speak to this guy. I had it last week and the guy said on the call, we've just worked with a PR company and we fired them after a month, right? He didn't go into it. So the first thing I, the guy was called Richard as well. So as soon as it starts like, hi Richard, listen, My colleague literally just told me he'd fired another PR company. What happened? You know, and he didn't even think about it. He's just going straight into the pain points and all that. Now he's just going to have it on his mind that what was, you know, pissing him off about this. That's—
I can see how that'd be so effective. So you don't, you don't do the whole structured, okay, thanks for showing up. This is how the call is going to go. I'm going to ask you this and we're going to talk about this. You don't do any of that?
No, I do. But listen, I will never fucking tell someone thank you for being here. Like these kind of little subtleties. Like, I'm never going to say appreciate your time. Thanks for coming. Like, fuck that. I'm starting with a pain point. And if there isn't one, because sometimes a set of calls like 10 minutes, there's not really much there. I'll just go, hey John, how's it going? Blah. By the way, can we get straight into things? Like, I've got another call in 45 minutes and I've got a bunch of questions I want to ask you. Is that cool? Everyone will be cool with it.
Yeah.
And they'll say yes. And this next sentence is something that everyone can pretty much take. And do you know what? I put it on Twitter and I saw lots of it. I'm not saying I invented it. You can never invent something in closing, but I saw it get passed around and put in other people's closing groups and stuff, which is cool. And the way I say this as well, I'm trying to teach my closing team How to say this so it doesn't sound fucking salesy. You know, it's all about tonality. It's all about pace. My good friend Dylan, the SDR Whisperer, he speaks about this for his SDRs, you know. And I'll say, cool, John. So look, the way I start these calls, and honestly, I'm curious to hear in your own words, like, what are you hoping to get from this call? You know, and see how I just went really slow?
Tonality right there was really, like, really big difference maker. Because some of these people, if you do that in the wrong way, you're like, hey, I'm, you know, I'm gonna ask you this question and this question. And then if there's a good fit, we're gonna talk about, you know, what we do. It does sound really salesy. And to, you know, a more sophisticated buyer, they're immediately like, this guy's trying to frame me. He's trying to, he's trying to like, Like push me around here. So yeah, that's actually really good. Um, dude, I'm, I'm excited to get into more of this because I know your Twitter is like a little, a little peek into your sales process and it's like very, very unique compared to what a lot of these other guys are doing. Um, so I'm super excited to dive into the rest of this.
I think people Sorry to butt in, bro. I think there's a bit of a lag here. If you watch my Twitter or you read my tweets, I get the impression a lot of people think I'm just this really brash, upfront guy. All that shit wouldn't work. Honestly, I couldn't give a fuck. But if you heard my calls, you'd realize I'm so empathetic. I'm so like tonality, different pace, and the prospect never ever thinks I'm a dick. You know, because I'm not afraid to say anything, but the way I will say things, you will always have to answer me because I've said it in such a nice way. You know, if it's a negative, I'll follow it by a positive.
So that is, that's something that doesn't translate on Twitter. And so that is super good to know. A lot of the people watching this are gonna be like, oh, that's how he does it. That's how he gets away with it. Cool.
I'm just making noise, to be honest. So honestly, that's the first question and I get all my closers to do it. And the biggest thing is lots of them, they're practicing, practicing, practicing it and they'll say it in just a very monotonic salesy type of way. And I'm like, no, you have to every time say, hey John, so listen, I'm actually really curious here and I always start the calls like this, but what are you hoping to get? from this call in particular? And I'll change it up every time. And it comes across like a conversation. And the answer, this, guys, is where you're going to get the answer. And they're always, always, always going to fucking tell you the details, right? It doesn't mean they're going to give you exactly what you need, but they're going to give you what you need to dive into. And so you'll ask someone and they'll say, hey, do you know what? And all you're looking for is something concise. You're looking for them to say, do you know what? I just want to see the factors and the pricing, to be honest. And you're like, cool, thanks for being so concise. Sometimes a prospect will literally not answer you and they'll go off on one and start talking about their life story, right? And one of the things I'm trying to get all my closers to do is don't fucking accept an answer that does not answer your question, right?
Yeah.
So when they go off on one, you let them finish and you say, hey John, Sorry, I got a bit confused there. I feel like you went off on it a bit, Juan. Do you mind telling me in one short sentence, like, what are you hoping to get from the call? You know? Cool.
So just for context here, you are closing and you're also the sales manager, correct?
Yeah.
Nice. Nice.
Nice.
Okay, cool. So Moving into the next, the next thing here, the yes and no, or the yes or no statement. I see you've got a, you definitely have an opinion on the best way to navigate this. So I'm curious to, to hear your methodology.
Yeah, let's fucking do it, man. Like, the thing is, right, I've done sales at all different price ranges. If I'm speaking to someone and I'm selling something for like $55K, So $150K, you're always wanting to go away and thinking about and to think about it. Every prospect wants to think about it. If you look at my last 20 closes, I guarantee you 19 of them want to go away and think, right? And so the key is making sure they understand by the end I'm looking for a decision. By all means, it can be a no. If you're thinking about it, I'm gonna get money out of you. Now, the way I do it is take the answer to their You know, when you said, what do you want to get from the call? What are you hoping to get? They'll tell you. Then I'll say, perfect, John. So let me just go back to the start a little. I want to give you a bit of an understanding how these calls go for me. Okay? So by now I'm hoping, you know, you understand our company, what we do and what we offer. Is that— am I about right there? And they'll say, yeah. Yeah. Cool. So honestly, the calls for me are really, really simple. Like, I just want to ask you a few questions essentially to figure out, out of the products and the packages we offer, What would make the most sense? I'll present that to you on my screen. And honestly, John, by the end of the call, I'm just looking for a yes or a no. Is that fine with you? And you leave it like that. And now again, it's not salesy, is that? They literally think, oh, how nice of him to explain the structure of the call. And it's not salesy. And they go, yes, that's fine. Now people are scared of doing this, and the reason is if you don't say it right, you sound like a fucking idiot and it sounds salesy and forced, you know?
No, the way you're saying this right now, like, so for anyone listening, this is our first time actually meeting face to face. We've talked on Twitter and, you know, stuff like that. But the way you're saying this right now, it makes everything I've seen you tweet and do all that, like, it makes a lot more sense. And I can see how it'd be You know, working so effectively for you. So when you— now I know for context, more context, are you selling to like higher level, I guess, quote unquote B2C, like you're selling to individuals, right? Like not typically businesses.
Both. Yeah. B2B, B2C. Yeah.
So even if you get onto a call, you know, obviously when they reach you, they've had a couple of calls. And they're like, I need to think about it. Like truly our marketing head and I got to run it by the supervisor and the CMO or whatever. How do you navigate that versus just like the influencer who wants, you know, a big package? How do you navigate that? I need to think about it.
Good question, bro. Like honestly, they have their chance to tell me at the start of the call if they need any more decision makers. Number one, My setter has told them, bring all decision makers to the call. So they already know. They've received a PDF that tells them to bring all decision makers to the call. When I say to them, by the end of the call, John, I'm just looking for yes or no. Is that fine with you? Now they have the chance, if it is true, that they need someone else to make a decision, right? Now, if they don't say, oh, Rich, you know, sorry, I can't do that because I actually need John from accounting to help me with this decision. If they bring that up, I'll literally address it and say, hey, bring John on right now, or hey, let's reschedule because I'm not wasting my time. But if they don't fucking tell me that, guys, I know it's a lie when I get to the end of the call because I'll be like, John, wait a minute, I'm really confused. I told you I'm looking for a yes or a no. And at that point you mentioned nothing about John from accounting. You know, so essentially you fucked up anyway.
Yeah, I know this, this is kind of elementary, uh, but I think it would serve a lot of the people listening. So when, when you say, hey, yeah, by the end of the call I'm looking for a yes or no, and they're like, uh, actually, I actually need to run this by David, but he's not here right now, can we just keep going on with the call? How, how are you responding to them?
Okay, I'd say, well, do you know what, John? Normally I wouldn't do that, but let's do this. Let's make an agreement. If by the end of the call you 100% believe we can help you and we are the company for you, what we can do is a refundable deposit. I'll send you a contract and we'll book in a second call. How does that sound? You know?
So they're expecting it.
I'm making them. They have to make a decision, do you know what I mean? And I'm gonna get money down. And if they say no to that, then honestly, I'm not wasting my time.
Yeah, yeah, dude, that's, that's awesome. That's like— this episode is going to be awesome. I'm super excited. Um, so man, leading into that next point, the doctor frame. Go off, I'll give you the floor, I'll give you the floor. That's all I'll say.
Bro, the reason I hate on it so much is like, because I've in the past 6 months, 7 months, whatever, I've like hired maybe honestly 12, 13, 14 closers and I've tried everything. I've tried experienced guys, I've tried young guns who have just got the fire in the belly, like everyone you can think of. And all of the people who come in with this, because I'll ask them in the interview, What's your, like, semi, like, what's your technique? What do you feel like you do naturally? Nearly everyone, bro, says, oh, I like the doctor framework. And immediately I'm like, ain't gonna work, man. Like, is a doctor looking for a fucking no?
No.
When you go and see a doctor, he don't give a fuck if he's making a sale or not. He's literally asked 2 questions and then he'll give you a medicine. If you don't take it, he don't care.
Yeah.
If I'm selling something for $150K, they have to fucking respect the hell out of me and they're going to respect the hell out of me because I'm going to say, John, are you telling me you want this solution because it's going to give you credibility? And they go, yeah. And I go, okay, John, you do realize there's way more cost-effective methods of getting credibility than this. This is a very bad decision if that's the only thing you're looking at. Now, a doctor is not going to say that.
Right.
And I'm doing that throughout a call, you know.
Just pushing them away.
Yeah, and that sounds simple, right? Everyone talks about pushing away, but like, if you say to someone, I'm looking for a yes or a no, it does not work unless you are searching for the no throughout the call, you know.
Okay, this kind of brings up— yeah, it brings up a good point. You said you've had 12, 13, 14 closers. They love the doctor frame. And when you hear that, you're like, oh boy, here we go. When you are bringing on a new closer, like, what is the perfect response to, like, what kind of sales process do you follow for you? Like, what are you looking for out of somebody?
Oh bro, I'm just looking for extreme confidence. Like, I'm just looking for someone— I don't have a technique, but no one will get past me. if they're available to be closed. The way I see myself is everyone I'm speaking to, if you've got money, there's no chance you're getting off this call without paying.
Yeah.
And when I interviewed for this position, I was like, I don't like interviews, let me just tell you that. But one thing I want you guys to know is I've done this for many fucking years. I'm very good at what I do. And for you to understand that, all you can do is give me the job and I'll show you. And they gave me the job and I showed them.
Yeah.
Now you don't, you don't hear that much on an interview, you know? Yeah.
Okay. So I got also here you, your beef with Alex Hormozi, not necessarily with Alex Hormozi, but one of the things that he does say that I think is most people are gonna know the whole You don't need time, you need information, and I'm the only source of info. What's your take on that whole spiel right there?
Bro, it's fucking so— like, every— I think everyone understands, like, objections, handle them as early as fucking possible, right? So for instance, you don't need time, you need information. Okay. One of the first things I'll ask on the call after I've done the whole yes or no thing, I'll go, John, again, maybe I'll say I'm curious. I'm like, John, I'm curious, are you sure? Have you already decided now is the right time to do this? Why now? Why not 6 months ago? And they'll go, oh yeah, I was thinking about it and now's the right time, right? So now you can't tell me at the end of the call, I need time, because you fucking told me in the call now's the right time to do it. And I'll bring it up. I would say, I'm confused, John. You literally told me now's the right time. And at the end of call, you want to go away and you don't think now's the right time, you know? And so the way I see these objections is, if I'm waiting until the end of the call to pitch and then for them to come back with a lie and a bullshit answer, I have monumentally fucked up the call, you know? Like, I am, you know, Bowtie Sales Guy talks about holding frame. Right? When you pitch, you lose frame automatically because the ball is in their court. So I'm not going to pitch until I am fucking so 100% confident that this is for them. So if Alex pitches to someone and they say, well, do you know what? I need time to think and whatever. And I said to a high-level client, well, you don't need time, you need information. And I'm the CEO here, so talk to me. Fuck no.
Yeah.
Fucking no way.
Yeah. I think that would work for, you know, a less sophisticated B2C buyer probably. But yeah. And this, this is a good point to bring up too. I mean, the best way to handle objections is to handle them before they're like, while they're obstacles, right? Like before the pitch. How many, if you had to give a percentage of You know, percentage of the times where you work through your pitch, you basically pop the question like, all right, man, what do you think? Are you ready to go? And they don't have any objections because you had previously, you know, handled all of them before they had the chance to surface. Like, how often do you find yourself setting yourself up like perfectly so that there are no objections, literally?
Bro, I try and do that every call. The thing is with high-level prospects when they're speaking to me is they just naturally feel like they have to object to something at the end of the call. And I know it's complete horseshit when I finish because they're literally asking me a bullshit question. There was a piece of training I did for the team like a few weeks ago. It was this really, really high-level guy, like multimillionaire, he's got a Lamborghini. gaining all this stuff. And honestly, I sold him completely and he got to the end and he wanted like time to process it and I was just staying silent, right? And for him to stop being silent and all these voices in his head, he just asked me bullshit questions. Now most closers would've answered them and tried to explain away. And I just kept saying, wait, what do you mean? That doesn't even make sense. And it just put him back on the spot and the guy ended up laughing and saying, hey, you are fucking unbelievable at this. Just giving me props for it. Another example, I think you might be speaking to Ryan Durkin.
Yeah.
Another time and he's one of our closers and he was listening to one of my calls last week. I was speaking to 4 whales, bro, in the car and they had no idea who I was or the company. So it's a fucking hard call. But I just assume I did my shit and I assumed the sale. I didn't even ask them, what do you think? I was like, I literally said, and I'm sending you the invoice right now. Let me know when it's paid and I'm going to book you on the interview. And they just like followed what I was saying. And Ryan was like, bro, I should be doing this. Like just assume the fucking sale. Like it's the best way.
Yeah, dude. I imagine, because I've known Ryan since I like popped on Twitter, we were both at like Like less than 100 followers. Like we were babies. And I assume him working with you, he's like getting a fucking masterclass on how this shit goes.
He's improved a lot.
Yeah. Awesome. Awesome. So another, another point we had to talk about here was using like Just using language that is super like, oh, like, thank you so much. I appreciate you for showing up. Like, you're better than me. My time isn't valuable. Like, it's not valuable. Like, what's your take on using that type of language with a prospect on a call?
The thing is though, everyone thinks this is really minute details. Like, it doesn't matter, but it fucking does matter when you're speaking to a high-level individual. And they won't think about it consciously, but subconsciously, if you appear lower status than them, you're fucked.
Yeah.
Some of our closers will say stuff like, and I'm trying to drum it out of them because it's a bad kind of habit, but they'll say like, oh, and I'm hoping by the end of the call we can figure something out where we can work together and we can represent you. Fuck no, I'm not hoping shit. You will hope by the end of the call that I think this will be a good fit.
Yeah.
Yeah, that's pretty much it.
So dude, I, I have to ask, like, if you went to 18-year-old high-ticket closer, like, like traditional, I just started sales type guy, and he took everything that you were saying and just tried to implement it day one, like he'd, he'd look like a fucking idiot, right? So how, how do you think it is that you can do what you do like so effectively? without brushing people the wrong way and ultimately like driving people to a decision, like getting results with it? Like what is it about you and why can you do this so effectively?
Well, firstly, it feels natural to me. It doesn't feel like I'm trying to do sales. Do you know what I mean? I'm not thinking of any tactics. And to people, To put it bluntly, Dylan, I've never bought a sales book. I've never bought a course. I've never learned anything. So what I'm doing just feels natural to me. The second thing is, honestly, the acting and the auditioning puts me in a place where if you can do that and do all these different scripts in another language and be a different character and look like an idiot on a sales call speaking to one person, it's fucking so easy. You know, yeah, but you have to figure out what is natural to you. Like, I'm trying to tell our closers, like, if I'm closing, you know, past few weeks, 40, 45%, you know, trying to get the other closers to do what I do because I know it's, it's, it's the most efficient. But you have to do it in your own way, and it's, it's the hardest thing to apply something when it's not natural, right?
And obviously some of this stuff, man, is Like it's gonna work awesome for you. And it's most of what you're saying, like would work if executed correctly, but everybody has a different selling style. Like you see it within your own team and other teams and, and they all work if done correctly. Right. So I wanted to ask you, and, and you just alluded to it, but you've never bought sales training. Like where have you learned? Is it just like trial by fire, like over the years? That's how you— Learn all this, or what'd you do?
Honestly, Jerry Meeminer, fuck you. All the other guys, fuck you. No, I'm joking. I just have a joke with some of the closers on our team. Some of them will be like, hey, have you seen this little tactic from Jerry Meeminer? I'm like, fuck this guy. If he did that, what he's saying on our offer, I'm telling you, it would not fucking work. If you want to sell this high-level product and the person is speaking to you for the second time on your company, they have to know you're looking for a fucking decision. Jeremy Miner did this content about, oh, the yes or no is not fucking a good thing to do. Like, all right, if you want to be a pussy, then yeah, try it. I've seen many closers try not do the yes or no and 100% of the leads will wiggle out.
Yeah.
So you either listen to me or you Yeah.
So who, like, if you had a new closer or not even that, let's say you had like a kid in your DMs and he's like, I wanna learn sales. Who do I, who do I watch? Who, what do I read? And you had to recommend them somebody, like who would you send them off to go study besides yourself?
Boatside Sales Guy.
Cool. And you, I know he, he does have a, A course as well. But his Twitter stuff, dude, so it's so like short, simple. He was one of the first follows that, that I made on Twitter and like definitely influenced the way that I do things. Anybody else? Anybody that's more like B2C that you would follow or like recommend?
I, to be honest, I've not spoken to Grant much, but from some of the pieces I've seen of Grant, I feel like he's semi a bit like me. I feel like he's got a bit of a personality where he could say lots of shit and get away with it. Do you know what I mean? Everyone, I feel everyone gets that from Grant's content, especially his videos. You get his personality.
Yeah.
With my Twitter stuff, you only see text. So you just think, oh, this guy is a fucking dick. And I'm fine for people to think that. Honestly, I don't care. But as soon as you have a conversation with me, then you will be like, okay, well, it makes sense. But yeah, Grant's really good. Bo Tad Salesman's really good.
Cool.
I just think learning this stuff is so— people buy like Bo Tad Salesman's course and it's just not natural to them. And it's like you have to learn over a long time.
It's hard. I think if you go from like day 1, I wanna start sales to day 2, Bowtie Sales Guy course, you're gonna be like, holy shit, like this is a lot. But yeah, it's, it's kind of like when you're working out. I was talking about this, I think yesterday. It's like, yeah, dude, you gotta bulk up and then you gotta cut, right? Like if you just, if you just go slow and steady, you know, lean bulk, it's gonna take 5 times as long. So just like mass consume, bro.
Yeah.
Test it. That's the important part. Test it and then, and then pull back. Um, but yeah, dude, I, both, both of those guys, both had, both had Sales Guy and then Grant. Like, I, I know a lot of people who have worked with Grant as coach. If anybody's listening, uh, Retirement Keys, I think on socials. Um, check that guy out. But I wanna ask you, What is something that you are working on within your own sales process, like right now? Like where are you improving?
The thing is, with what I'm doing, I'm just continually improving the sales process for the whole team rather than just me individually. Do you know what I mean? Like I'm all the time I'm changing the script a bit. Like I test stuff out all the time on a script. I'll find stuff that works and then I'll put it in the script. and tell the rest of the closers. If I'm looking at what I'm trying to do personally, I'm just trying to close as fucking many people as possible. But that's not really changing. I've gone from at the start when I first started, there was no real closer manager. There was no one telling me, here's a script, here's what to do. And so I had to go through this whole stage of figuring it all out myself, creating stuff and then telling the team. But right now I think I'm Closing 40, 45%, sometimes 50%.
Yeah.
Of high-profile leads. So it's going well.
Yeah. I mean, the leads that you're closing down are definitely, it's not like buy this $4K dropshipping course. Like this is a more sophisticated sale. So it's super impressive. What's harder for you, closing or managing?
Yeah, managing, bro.
Is this your first time? Yeah.
Yeah, there's a lot of work, man, but I enjoy it. Like, it's just there's a lot and like people require your time, you know? Whereas the closing, honestly, like I've got a call in 12 minutes and I can jump into a sales call and just know hardly much and it's cool. It's like, It's fine.
Yeah. So I was talking to, uh, this guy, Lee. I don't know if you know Leo. He's a younger dude. He's on actually episode 2. We, we recorded it yesterday. Um, he, we were talking about in terms of like detaching yourself from the sale, which I think is something that, you know, you probably practice being that you study the whole bowtie sales guy, uh, philosophy. He was, he was mentioning it and we were talking about how if you have, let's say, money in the bank and you're sitting, you're sitting comfy, it's so much easier to detach yourself from the sale. But if you're like, dude, rent due next week and I need money. So I guess diving into the topic of like being able to detach yourself from the sale, how do you do that? How do you do it?
Effectively. Because deep down, I don't give a fuck if you buy or not, and I never have.
Yeah.
And I don't know how you can teach that, how you can learn that, but from day one, okay, maybe the first week I tried to push people into a sale who shouldn't be a sale, but I honestly couldn't give a fuck. There was a guy I was speaking to last week. He was like, A billionaire, like $3.5 billion. And I honestly couldn't give one fuck, bro. Like, this is not for you, right? You know?
So how do you, uh, detach?
Sale is fucking hard.
Yeah. So when you— because doing it in the nature that you do, and I, I do know other people that, that really like, they push for the no, they're detached. Um, sometimes your numbers like will dip because of that. That's what I've seen. Um, have you had that same experience or no?
In what way? Your percentage closing?
Yeah, yeah. Like sometimes, like, you'll go— I mean, sales, you'll always have highs and lows, like hot streaks, dry streaks. Um, but I know others where, you know, they'll stop making offers or, um, just like maybe over the course of one month, their, their numbers are lower because of the way that they're doing it. But ultimately, you know, they have the trust from the sales manager that they're doing what they should be doing. I was just curious if you had experienced anything like that, like with your selling style.
No. Hmm.
Okay. That's the thing.
Like, I was— I had this discussion with Ryan, actually. The way I do things, the way my technique is, I don't change my way of being for anyone. And I believe it's the most optimal for catching as many fish as possible. It's a wide net. Now, yes, I do speak to a few people, mostly powerful men who have a lot of money. Sometimes they just don't like the fact that maybe I'm in control, right? And I just accept it. I don't care. But for the way I do things, I don't get dips. in weeks. Do you know what I mean? Like, honestly, it's always the same, not improving over time. So I don't have these bad weeks or so. If you keep giving me good, quote unquote, good leads, I'm always going to perform. And so I feel like if you work towards being able to do this in a natural way, I can't see why I would have a bad week. Why the fuck would I have a bad week? Why is that going to happen? People accept it. They're like, oh, you have bad streaks. Fucking why?
Yeah, that's fair. That's fair. I guess for, um, got about, I don't wanna, I don't wanna end this right on your, your call starting time, so we'll try to wrap it up in 5 minutes. But, uh, young closer, man, I'm sure you get a lot of them in your, your DMs. A young sales guy, really quick, your most effective advice, like, Someone says, Richard, please help me. I want to sell so bad. How do I get good? Like, what are a few things you're going to tell these guys?
Okay. Number 1, join Closeify. I joined Closeify and it was a blessing if people know what it is. Number 2, I'm actually going to— me and Ryan Durkin, who you're speaking to soon, are probably going to be releasing a a semi-course with a Discord group. It's not going to be expensive, but we're just going to teach our shit in there and our techniques. And also, like, do DM me if you want help. Like, the thing is, our company is we're never going to take on a closer, direct-to-closer again because it's gone so bad. But we're absolutely happy to take on killers who are willing to be a setter for You know, a month, learn the ropes, learn the product, and then become a closer. So if you're happy to do that, for sure, DM me and I'll put you in touch when we need someone.
For sure. So as far as something you would go, and I don't know if sales was always easy for you, but rewind, like I think you said 10, 11 years or whenever you started sales. What is something that you wish you knew then that you know now?
Fuck knows, bro. Fuck knows. Oh, I'll tell you what I fucking should have known. I should have known that I should have been doing this, like doing sales for a third party and not myself as a fitness agency. Because I was closing for myself and then having to deliver for like loads of people. I wish I'd found closing at 18, bro. I would be 100% a multi-multi-millionaire by now.
Interesting. Interesting. Yeah, dude, a lot of these people, like, that is the goal, to be the owner. And, you know, obviously you get to the point where you would hire a team. I think you were selling this off of like your personality though, right? So they're expecting to work with you.
Yeah.
This is a good question. Like, what's next for you besides the project with Ryan and just continuing to close everybody that hops on a call with you? Like, what are your plans for the next year or 5 years?
Probably to just extend my acting career. Like, I'll just always close, right? But like, when this film comes out, probably at the end of this year, It's going to be fucking massive in India. I'm probably going to be massively famous in India, and then I'll probably get way more job offers to do more acting. And I love acting. Like, it's so cool. And the greatest thing is I literally can be doing workshops and acting through the day in India, and I can do my sales calls with the US people in the evening. You know what I mean? So it's cool.
That's awesome. I think that's super cool that, like, You're doing sales at such a high level, but I'm not gonna say it's not a priority, which obviously it is a priority, but like you have something that is, you know, like your main focus outside of that, which is a huge testament to like sales in general, man. Like if you structure your day how you want, like you can really make this what you want. Now, not all opportunities, you know, are gonna let you do that, but you find a good one. They will. Last thing before we plug your socials and all that, besides Closeify, obviously you've kind of, I'd assume you've bounced around on different offers, probably found some stuff you liked, you didn't like. What is your go-to way of finding people to sell for outside of Closeify?
I don't have a way. Just Closeify. That's all I've ever used. I honestly did about 2 different offers before the one I found and they were just garbage. I get, the thing is though, bro, I'll be honest, I get job offers all the time right now on sales calls. Because every time I speak to a high-level sales guy and I sell to them, they always say, you should work for me. And I love my job. I'd never leave. I've got big loyalty, but I get job offers all the time. It's great. Yeah.
Yeah. So what do you, this brings up a good point. Real, like last, last question. And I feel like somebody on Twitter said it may have been you, but I'm not so sure. Like when somebody says like, you're a good salesperson on a call, or like, they're like, oh, you're so good at this. Like I saw a take where somebody's saying like, dude, you're fucking up if they're saying that. What's, what's your, what's your whole, maybe it wasn't you then. But like, if somebody is on the call saying that, like, are you, are you like, oh dude, like You know, thank you, or how do you direct that?
I always ask another question, bro. Like, I'll— because I won't be saying thank you and fucking blushing. I'll just say, oh really, what makes you say that? Like, you, you have to explain it to me exactly why, do you know what I mean?
Yeah.
You know, why do you— why would you give me a job? Why do you think I'm good? You know, and then they have to explain themselves.
And, you know, and then once they fluff you up a little bit more They don't even get a thank you. You're just like, okay, now pay me.
No, I'll just say something like, well, let me think about it, you know, something like that. Yeah, you got to be careful with what you answer.
Yeah, especially before you get the sale. All right, man.
The rapport building can come after the sale. Like, I'm not your friend. Like, okay, like the way you and me are speaking, like that's how my sales calls are going. I'm having a good conversation with people, but I'm fucking focused and there's direction and they realize it and they know there's a decision to be made. But after we've closed and I've got the payment and we're working together, I'll become your best mate. We'll talk all the time.
Well, shoot, dude. This has been a super value-packed episode. I think a lot of people are going to take a lot from this, including myself. Where can, where can the people find you? I know you're on Twitter. Uh, where else are you? And we'll, we'll link it below in the description.
Same. My Twitter handle is the same as my Instagram, same as my TikTok. Closed and Paid across it all. So I think people will enjoy my Instagram and TikTok content because it's like you, you might get my personality a bit more rather than Twitter, and you'll see me speaking about shit. So Yeah.
Cool. All right, man. Appreciate you.
Cool, man.
Hopping on. Good luck on your call and let's stay in touch.
Yeah, man. Thanks for having me on, brother.
Take care.
Bye-bye.
