Five Years and Millions Closed in High-Ticket Sales - Caden Jara

Anyways, let's roll it, man. So we got Caden Jara here, long-awaited guest of the Sales Bro Pod. I believe this is like episode 31. Caden, man, I appreciate you coming on.

Appreciate you, bro.

100%. Yeah, I've been wanting to— obviously, like, you and I have kind of known I think of each other for some time, but we never actually like connected. And last week a bunch of people were like, hey, you guys should meet. Like you kind of do similar things and you're both chill. So when we met, I was like, I'm probably gonna ask you on the pod. And then here we are a week later, like we're running the pod. So I think it's gonna be a really, really good one for guys in the, I mean, high ticket sales, but also just like young guys going through that online business journey. If anybody's listening to this and they don't know who you are, like, what, who are you? What are you up to right now?

Yeah, so I'm 26 years old from Phoenix, Arizona. I've been in the remote sales game for going on 5 years. In February, it'll be 5 years officially. Got into this space accidentally. I got into dropshipping first and then found the remote closing stuff and scaled the first offer that I was ever on to $1.8 million within 18 months. And then that's kind of when I realized that this was like a space that other people were into. So then went to go close for people like Iman Gadzhi, Dan Ryder, Daniel Contreras, some big marketing guys who are crushing it in their respective niches all over the place. And now we're here. I got a training sort of deal that I do now where I train people on how to do it. I'm not actively closing anymore. However, you and I were talking on our last call how we're both doing kind of B2B related stuff now, like sort of transitioning into that field.

Yeah.

So I'll be back to closing again, just, you know, different kinds of people than what I'm used to. But that's kind of everything in a nutshell.

Cool. So yeah, dude, you're probably, I mean, this space was obviously around 5 years ago, but there weren't as many people now or then talking about it like there are now, right? How did you, well, I guess first off, like how, how'd you get into e-com? Like how'd you get down that rabbit hole?

Dude, so kind of to, to keep it short, I went to high school with a really, really big dropshipper. Like, you know, one of the e-com guys on YouTube that like I, you would probably know for sure. And that a lot of people would know as well. Like one of the e-com OGs. And what's funny is I used to work at a pizza restaurant and he drove a Nissan GT-R and he whipped up to the pizza restaurant that I was in, in the GT-R. And I was flipping pizza dough right at the window. So I saw him pull up. I was like, that guy graduated like 6 months ago. There's, there's no way he's making enough to like afford that kind of car. 'Cause I knew it was an expensive car. Yeah. So ended up Googling him 'cause I knew his name and found his YouTube and it was all dropshipping related and then just went down that entire rabbit hole. But I had no money, so never really got that off the runway unfortunately.

Okay. Were you like 15, 16 at that time?

So I just turned 17. I found this in Summer going into my senior year of high school. So I was like, yeah, barely 17 years old.

Yeah. I mean, knowing that you're from the area you're from, I think I know who you're talking about, like the, the big dude that's out of Arizona. Yeah. Um, so that's cool. Did you know him like personally?

No, not at all. I just saw him around school. I think we had a marketing class together and other than that, that was it. We didn't know each other personally.

So what did you just like go through the YouTube rabbit hole and then try to get like the Shopify trial and like spin it up and throw like $10 at Facebook ads or like how did— how long did it last before you realized like, fuck, I have no money?

So dude, June is when I started and I realized I just had zero, zero bread in like November. I was like, I can't do this without money, bro. I was just, I kept taking myself into the negatives. I was like, I have to find something that's free to start. But I built like this home decor store, AliExpress. I mean, everybody who knows like the e-com space knows AliExpress. I just was getting all of these like home decor products and adding them to the store and the store actually looked pretty good, but I bought 2 influencer shoutouts for it for $25 apiece and I made 1 sale for $25. So I was just like, you know, this ain't for me. And on top of that, I bought a course for it too, which was like $700 and I couldn't even afford like— half of the course, so I had to split it up into 4. So that was charging me every month too. And I was like, man, I gotta find, I gotta find something else 'cause this is getting a little expensive.

Yeah, that's funny. Back in the, like 2017, that's kind of when I came around to the online stuff too. I found like Nate Schmidt on Twitter and yeah, it was funny. Those general stores, it would be like hundreds of just random products. You said yours was like home decor, but like I knew guys who were doing like anything that looked like it would sell, they just throw it on like this lander and like, I don't know, drive traffic to the product page, I guess.

100%.

Simpler times, man. Now it's way different.

For sure.

So I'm curious, like you realize like, dude, I'm paying for this e-com course that like I have to go find more money to finish paying it off. Store, like not picking up. Like why didn't you just decide to kind of keep grinding out at the pizza shop and like do this? Or like, were you presented with something where you're like, hey, this seems a lot more up my alley right now?

Yeah. So I wanted to go pro in baseball like my whole life. Like that, that was just kind of the dream. Then I hit high school and You know, I just kind of realized that maybe that wasn't where I wanted to go. I was good and I always kind of had raw talent. But when you get to high school, I played at a really good high school too, like state championships almost like every year, at least they were playing in it. When you get to that level, it's like it has to be your whole life. Like you got to be in the weight room almost twice a day. You got to be conditioning, running, like, you know, at least during baseball season, during like the fall, like don't really count on doing anything outside of baseball. So. I started falling like out of love with it, you know, at like the end of my junior year. And so funny enough, I got injured. I dislocated my arm right around that time. And so I had to go into rehab anyway. And I just kind of took that as a sign from above to ditch baseball and find something else. The thing was like, I had to find something that was going to like sort of get me out of my situation because all of my friends, my girlfriend, like everybody that I cared for and was like homies with, they were getting ready to go to college. But my family, we couldn't afford college. And on top of that, I was shit at school, bro. I think I had like a 2.8 GPA out of, out of high school, so I couldn't get money or scholarships to be able to go either. So I was like, man, I, I'm going to have to find a way to like get myself out so I can go to school and be with everybody down in, in Tempe, Arizona State University. And so that's what I shifted focus towards after baseball. And that's just what I kind of went all in on. So for me, like working the pizza, working the pizza job and, you know, kind of staying that route, maybe like staying at home, going to community college, like I probably could have done that, but I don't think I ever would've gotten out of that. Like I think I would still be in that pizza restaurant and going to community college, or I probably would've left community college by now. So I just saw this as my only way out.

Yeah. Yeah, I mean, that seems to just be a common theme with guys who go and figure out this online stuff. It's like, you know, you could— it's like, we're pretty— I say we, but like, the guys who go and do this stuff, like, they're pretty intelligent. It's just like, grades are not the focus. Like, the guys that go on to have like straight A's and stuff, like, they go on to be like fucking doctors or whatever, right?

Yeah.

But it's like the B or C students that just kind of get by, but like, you always know they're kind of wired differently. They go on and like create jobs for the, the doctors and stuff, you know?

100%, dude.

100%.

Yeah.

So you, um, I feel like we're kind of getting around the time when like we, we both bought into the same program, which was like Copywriting, right? I think it's 2017, 2018. Uh, what led you into that?

So you were talking about Nate Schmidt. Nate Schmidt was like, dude, my idol back in the day. Like my idol.

He was the pizza dude.

Yeah, bro. Literally, he was like the frat guy pizza dude who, you know, got successful with dropshipping and copywriting and dropped out. So I was like, I know I can be like that dude. If he can do it, he's around my age range. Like, I know I can do it too. So I actually bought his BDSC course, which I'm sure you've heard of too. It was like $99 or something like that once I quit e-com because that was like free to start. Obviously, like you bought a course to do and stuff, but it was free to start. Like other than that, you didn't have to invest into like ads or anything. So got into that and then another guy who was like mentored by Nate, his name was Andy FFCC. He, dude, him and I connected a little bit and he was like, you should buy my stuff too. So I was like, all right, I'll buy your stuff too. It was the same price, like $99. And I remember this was on Christmas. I had just gotten outta like a church service on Christmas with my family and I sent him, I literally had $104 in my bank account and sent him $99 of it. And I was like, fuck it, you know, let's just rip it and see where it goes.

Yeah.

And so I had both those courses and I guess what got me into that though was just realizing I needed to do something that didn't cost money for like inventory or ads or You know, anything of that nature, cuz it was just money that I didn't have at that time.

Yeah. At this time, did you even think that sales was like something you could do?

No way. I didn't even know. Yeah. I didn't even know the remote sales stuff existed, to be honest with you.

If you, aside from like going pro in baseball and trying to figure out online business, like I mean, for me, going through this, I always had kind of like the backup plan. For you, was it like, oh dude, if this stuff doesn't work out, I'm gonna go and do like, I don't know, real estate, or I'm gonna go and like sell cars, or, well, not sales, but anything in mind as far as like the real life fallback plan at that time?

Dude, honestly, no. Like that, that sounds kind of like cringy Goggins archetype of like no plan B, but like Dude, in my head I was like, I don't care how long it takes, I'm gonna make this shit work. Like, even if I have to spend a year at home, you know, while my friends are at school, and I can take the year to figure it out and then go in my sophomore year over there, like, I'll do it. But it was just like do or die for me, honestly. I did not want to stay at home, go to community college and work the pizza job. I was just kind of like burnt out of it. That's— it was a life I'd been living for like 4 years. So I was like, Fuck this, man.

Dude, I— that was like my big thing too when I was younger. Like, I worked at a bunch of pizza spots, like tossing them, and like I was always like a cook or whatever, so I was like throwing them. And I remember, I remember when like Nate was kind of more around, I was like, dude, this guy was pizza dude. I got into e-commerce too. I was in the same situation where I didn't have money to like make anything of it. Well, I had It was like I was in a position where it's like, you know, I had $1,000, $2,000. I was like, I didn't really want to go and spend it to make something happen. I was like, I have to save this. This is like my safety, my, yeah, my safety net, you know.

100%.

And so I never ended up making anything of e-com either. And that's, I think, probably how same way you like, oh, copywriting, like, dude, you just email people and like it's free. And then dove into that. And I think I probably found Andy the same way that you did, which is funny how that works. Like a lot of guys, they like start it maybe e-com or paid ads. They're like, I'm poor, I can't do this. Let me do something that's free, copywriting. Oh dude, but these sales guys make way more money and it's like faster. So let me do that.

100%.

So just a natural progression, man. E-com is like, Or failing e-com is like a rite of passage to online business. It for sure is.

100%.

So you buy like this, the mentee's course with your last $100, you got closed on it. What did you like, did you then go down the copywriting rabbit hole and like try to go get clients? Did you get clients? Like how did you end up in the sales stuff from there?

Dude, so I, I, my idea was, so I bought BDSC to learn copywriting specifically. FFCC was copywriting, but Andy said that it could also be used for like anything really. Like if you ran Google ads or Facebook ads or built websites, like his frameworks of reaching out to businesses would apply. So I was like, fuck it, I'm going to go to companies, just offer everything. That's, that was my mind, my 17-year-old, you know, noob mindset back then is I was like, I'm going to go DM as many rich people that I can find on social media, offer to run their ads, build their website, you know, write their email, emails, be their personal assistant, like whatever I have to possibly do to just start making some form of money, I'll do. So I was, I was literally offering everything and the kitchen sink, bro. And my pitch was hilarious. I even got called out one time by a dude. He was like, this literally sounds like an infomercial, bro. Like, that's insane. And funny enough, him and I are friends now because we connected. But nonetheless, like I was just reaching out to everybody and then finally it was, I remember the day, it was February 5th, 2019. A guy with probably like 45K Instagram followers reaches back out to me and he was like, hey man, I don't need any of that, but like, do you do sales? I was like, yeah, I do sales. And he was like, cool, let's hop on a call. And I didn't have any sales experience at the time. So we hop on a call and he basically like closed himself on me. It was really weird. Like he was like, yeah, I really like your energy, man. Like just the way you're talking, the way you articulate yourself. Like I really like your energy. So here's how I want to do it. I want to pay you $500 a month base salary and then 20% or 25% of commission. or 20% of commission, sorry, on a $250 product. So it was like $50 a sale. And I was like, dude, count me in. Like, that's heaven right there. So he paid me after the first month, we did like $13,000 of the $250 product. I was just in his DMs all day, like 24/7. I made like almost $3,000 that month. It was wild. And at that point he was like, all right, I want to make this more of like a like a higher ticket sort of deal and I want to start charging $5,000. And so we're going to bump your commission down to 15%, take away your $500 base salary, but you're going to make $750 per sale that you make. I was like, I'm game. That sounds good. So that's literally where it was started right there is he was just like, I want to make it more expensive and you're going to continue doing what you're doing.

Yeah. Was he taking sales calls on that?

No. So I would, I was taking 'em.

Yeah.

So like, I always make a joke. The, the first like 25 sales calls that I took, I did, I never closed. It was like really bad. And so it got kind of to a point where like, he was like, hey man, should we go back to $250 just to like get some money flowing through the door? Like, what's going on? And so I'm sure, you know, like Dan Lok, he was like the only dude teaching this style of sales. And then, um, Shout out to the Wolf of Wall Street movie. That was a lot of my sales training as well. So I was literally just binging those 2, bro. Sounds so stupid, but I used those, picked up a couple techniques, and then I think I closed my first deal in mid-March, but we went 0 for 25 before that. But yeah, I was taking all the sales calls from day one. That guy didn't touch a single sales call.

Okay. So you were setting and closing?

Yep.

And was it sales calls for the $250? Or was it like checkout page?

No, that was pure, uh, it wasn't even checkout page. It was like Venmo. I'd be like, all right, cool. Like, here, here's my Venmo, here's my Zelle or Cash App. And they would just send the money over.

That's funny. What was the, like, the niche?

E-commerce. So he, he basically started out coaching beginners and then we got it to a point where he was only taking on people doing minimum, like a few sales a month. They already had to have a store built. And then we would charge him like $5K to, to come get consulted on how to get it to a higher level.

Okay. Is that the one that went to like $1.8 mil?

Yep.

Damn, dude. You said 18 months?

18 months. Yep.

All right, dude. So you must have started like slinging them. Like what happened? How did, how did that happen?

I was slinging, man. I was fortunate for him to have a warm audience. So like he had probably 45, 50K, was getting like thousands of followers a month on Instagram. So he had this very like, Travel style content. He lived, I guess you could say he lived a life that like a lot of other people wanted. And so that brought in a lot of natural inbound lead flow. And what he would do is twice a month, we had this scheduled out, he would post like a mentorship promo, like, hey guys, I'm opening, you know, 5 spots for my direct one-on-one consulting, like swipe up. And this was at a period where he was growing a lot too. So dude, I would be going through DMs for hours a day. Close rate was probably like 70 to 80% because I did some qualifying in the DMs too. And yeah, I think I was just lucky to have somebody with a big audience already. And that was our, like, getting more followers too. That really helped.

Damn. So that, you know, you said it took 25 calls. You were like, didn't know what you were doing. You started watching the Wolf of Wall Street, you started watching Dan Lok. When you, like, after you made that first sale, how did things start to progress? Was it like pretty gradual or did you start like Did you have like a $10K month the next month? Like, how did that progress?

It scaled up. It was pretty gradual. Because after I closed that first deal, I still did not have things figured out. I just like, my mindset was, I'm going to do exactly what I did on that call that I closed and like my future calls. And then, you know, I started seeking out any sort of sales advice that I could possibly get. And back then, maybe I was just like really shitty at looking for it, but all I could find was like Dan Lok, and Grant Cardone. It was just like the 2 of those guys. So I was honestly just using their techniques at the start. And I think kind of like what I was saying before, I think I got away with that because it was a warm audience. So people were like, okay, like, oh, I'll pay it. Maybe on colder traffic that probably wouldn't have worked, but it was gradual. So it was like, you know, the first month that we did high, or second month we did high ticket, it was like $4K to $5K. Second month after that was like $5K to $6K. First $10,000 month was 6 months after in August of 2019. That was an $11,200 month for me. And so from there it was just like, it was kind of like game on. And then I think I invested in my first sales training in the beginning to, or maybe towards the middle of 2020. That's when I started buying stuff.

Okay, cool. Did you guys build a team out as this scaled or was it like just you the whole time?

Just me. I did have my girl answering DMs at one point though, my girlfriend, now wife, but I had her answering DMs and she was just setting And she was a menace, dude. She could do it way more than I was able to. And, uh, yeah, so I had her in the DMs, I guess, but that's just, that's not really like a team, I guess you could say. Yeah.

Damn, that's pretty crazy, dude. That's pretty crazy. Were you at the point where you're like 8, 10 calls a day? Like, was it getting pretty hectic?

No, dude. That's what's kind of funny about it is he had the warm audience and we qualified quite a bit in the DMs. So I was probably having 3 to 4 calls a day. Like there were even some days where I would have 1 call, but I would close the call and that was just that. It was kind of wild.

Yeah. Interesting. So scaled it to 1.8. This dude probably had the money now to like go and kind of fuck off. How did this kind of like come to an end? Like when did you realize like, all right dude, I mean, I know how to do this. Let me go and do this somewhere else.

So he did kind of like fuck off. Like I always joke, like I feel like I made him so much money that he was just like, yeah, like let's go, you know, travel and like go on these big retreats and stuff like that, which is fine. Like bro deserves it. He made a lot of cash. So at that point, like as things were slowing down, I bolted onto a new offer, which was with Iman Gadzhi's team. I was one of his first 2 salespeople. So Max, who's a really good friend of mine, was the only other sales guy in place. And it's funny because I bought his Grow Your Agency course with no intent of buying an agency. The VSL just sold me and I was like, all right, you know, maybe the sales section can help me out. And then they, like 3 days later, they posted a job posting in their Facebook group for that paid course for like a closing role. So I applied, was underqualified, but still got the role. And then I was running 2 offers at the same time. So I was at the Iman and then I was at this other guy. And so I was just balancing both like 5, 6 hours each per day. And that's what really took me to like, you know, consistent $10K, $15K, like even $17K, $18K months at that point was just balancing the two. Damn.

And you were like, like 18, maybe 19 years old at the time?

Yep. Yeah, this was heading into like, so 2020, the entire year was me working with Iman's team. I got there at the beginning and then January, and then I left at the end, which was like I think it was like November, December, late, late November. So yeah, this was, I think I have been 19 at that point.

Cool. So this is about the time where you got your GTR, right?

No, dude. I, I wanted one though. My dream car's always been an Audi R8. So that, you know, that was still outta the budget for sure.

Yeah, for sure. Damn, dude. I, I, I had no idea that you worked on Iman's team for a year. That's cool. And you were selling the Grow Your Agency, like the, was it the B2B stuff or was it a coaching?

So it was 2. We had Agency Incubator, which is $997. Sometimes we charge like $1,297 for it. Then there was Copy Paste Agency and that was like mid-4-figure range. So I was mainly on the Agency Incubator side. Like that was mainly what I was doing. I was in Iman's DMs just, you know, setting myself up calls and then I would close the occasional Copy Paste Agency as well.

Cool. So at this time, like, I'm curious, did you, now that you had some cash, like being that you kind of started in e-com, did you ever go and like mess around with it again or try to?

It's funny you're at— funny you ask, 'cause I did. Um, I bought a, I bought a prebuilt store from total scammer, bro. Like total, total scammer. This guy also had a GTR and, uh, he lived in Arizona. Funny enough, he lived in this house of like other e-com dudes. Like I'm pretty sure if I told you one of the guys' guys he lived in the house with, like, you'd know exactly who I'm talking about. But bought a prebuilt store from him. It was for a grand. And then he offered me like calls with it too, kind of whenever I needed and like consulting and stuff so I could scale it. And then I paid him, he gave me the store and then blocked me. And so I was like, well, shit. So tried some influencer shoutouts again. I was breakeven at best. And I just kind of, I had this really bad, like, habit the first year to 2 years in sales of like going and spreading myself too thin and like trying e-com or going back to copywriting or, you know, trying to build this big old like agency up or something like that. I had shiny object syndrome for sure.

Yeah.

Every single time I just kind of realized that I should just double down on sales until I eventually did.

What was your thought like as you're starting to have $10K, $15K, $17K, $18K months as like Young dude, did you, were you thinking like, oh dude, like I'm, I'm coasting, like I'm doing good. Or were you like, well, you just kind of nodded, so maybe that was it. Or were you kind of the guy that was like, oh, you know, 30 is the next target. Like you were pushing, pushing, pushing. Like which one, dude? Which one were you?

I got so content and complacent, or complacent. Like it, it was actually insane. Like I, as soon as I would cross that 10 mark for the month, I didn't give a, like an F about what happened the rest of the month. I was like, as long as I'm past 10, I'm good. That's, that's all I need. That was more than I needed. 'Cause at that point my expenses were like $1,500 a month. Dirt cheap. So, um, yeah, unfortunately I had like a year and a half period where I was very just content with what I was making. I wasn't pushing for anything above that. Yeah. Huh.

Yeah. I mean, that's, I feel like not, not even just sales, but like all types of online business, especially when you're like younger. Right. And you don't, You know, it's like $1,500 a month. Anything I make after that, that's profit. You know, like I'm sitting on it. I'm, you know, bank account's looking nice, but I feel like now you're probably in a little bit of a like more mature mindset of like, okay, like, you know, we, we did good up to this point. We got the $10K and now it's like we keep going. You know, it restarts every day. That's, that's something that I was thinking about the other day. Like literally, dude, did restarts every single day, no matter if you have like a record day the day before.

So 100%.

What was it like? So Iman was not nearly as big as he is now back then. What was it like selling for him then versus like the first offer where this guy was like, he was kind of known, but obviously I don't know. I guess then was, was Iman like, was he well known still? Yeah.

He, he was pretty well known. I think around that time he had like 100K on Instagram. You know, his YouTube was, I think even bigger than that. But it was insane, dude. Like I do not have a single bad thing to say about Iman. Yeah. It was so cool cuz they had such a well-oiled machine when I got there. It was like everything was in place. You had like a CRM, you had, you know, a specific day you got paid out commission. You had like trackers, you had all this stuff in place to where it was pretty straightforward. Whereas with my first position, it was like, I didn't even know you had to have those things. So I would, dude, I was just like freeballing it on that first position. I had no idea what I was doing. Zero organization at all. So it was cool, man. And it was cool to be able to build like a personal relationship out with him. In fact, this Oura ring on my finger right here, he's always talking about Oura rings. He bought this for me for my birthday back when I worked for him. Nice. And I, it still works, but it was great, man. That's cool.

That's cool. That's cool. Did you eventually just kind of grow out of that opportunity?

Yeah. So, well, not grow out of it. We were talking about shiny object syndrome. I thought because I had been selling like his agency stuff, I was like, why don't I go build an agency? Like, that's a natural evolution for me to take my sales skills and go build an agency. So it took like a 2 and a half month hiatus from sales altogether and quit with him, stopped with my first gig as well, and then started building an email marketing agency. And so that was kind of like the next evolution. And my top month with that was like $2K and I realized that I just hated it. So went back to sales after that. But yeah, it was just because I got shiny object syndrome again.

Yeah. Why do you think the agency thing didn't work out for you? I mean, besides just you not being interested in it so much so, but like, Were there other difficulties that you ran into? Is it like, oh, marketing's kind of a drag, actually fulfilling for clients, like it kind of sucks. Like anything else?

Dude, I think it was like the immediate pay downgrade really hit because I went from making like, you know, $10K to $20K a month to making like $1K to $2K a month. And that was working my tail off like all day, every day. So I think it was that. And then I'm like, this sounds bad, but I'm not that creative of a dude either. Like, you know, unless I'm in that zone, um, I guess I'm creative in my own ways, but in terms of email marketing, I had like nothing. I, I just couldn't squeeze anything out of myself. Yeah. You know, that was creative. It just bored me. And I got to a point where I was just kind of like, why the hell am I even doing this? Like I had something that was working before. So, you know, yeah, it just, I just had no synergy with it.

Yeah. Did you have any, Like, I guess, set goals that were— you were like, oh, by 21 I want this, by 23 I want this. Did you have anything set like that as you were kind of starting to make money?

For me, it was kind of like your typical benchmarks. It's like $10K in the bank and you're like, holy shit. And then it was $25K and then it's $50K and then it's $100K. And then it's like, after, after that, it was At least lately, probably the past year, it's been more so about like, I guess not as much as like numbers, but more so just like a situation that I can be in overall. Like I just want to get to a point where me and all my people are taken care of. And like, I also want to get to a point where that can happen when I don't have to be really hands-on anymore.

Yeah.

So like investing into real estate and stuff like that's definitely going to be in the future. Storage units and local businesses as well. And the new venture that we talked about, like that's, that's definitely on the horizon too. But I want to get to a point where I can have that without being 12 hours a day, all hands on deck type of deal.

Yeah. Yeah. We did just talk about that. And like, we're in this similar, very similar spot there where it's like, okay, sales is good. Like we know that we can always go back and make 6 figures a year in sales. Like it's nothing to like kind of just brush off. Like that's pretty, Significant, but at the same time, it's like, there's just that natural evolution. Like you said you had with the agency, it's like, all right, time to do this. Now it's, it's like, you know, you always find yourself like real estate or the local businesses or looking for like equity, right? It's not, it's not about like, oh, I have to make $15K this month as a closer. It's like, I want to set myself up like 5 years from now, you know, or 10 years from now. Which totally, it's— I feel like it's a lot more, um, I don't know, like calming when you have that kind of goal versus like, I have to close like one of these 4 calls today, you know? And it's like, I have to make $8,000 this month or whatever you're looking to make, right? So how do you, uh— I don't know, dude. I feel like because you're still like pretty young and like, you know, we're a couple years back in the story. I mean, if you're like 20, 21 years old and you're making better money than most people's parents combined, like how does that affect your like day-to-day, like outside of all the business stuff? Like what were you like at that point?

Yeah, dude, I, you do get a little bit of like an ego behind you. I don't think ego is necessarily like bad. Like I don't think you should always like kill your ego. But you did, you do have a different like swagger to you. You know, you start buying shit that like, like you don't need. You just see people on Instagram have it and you're like, all right, well I want it now.

Yeah.

You know, you start puffing your chest out on Twitter a little more. You know, you start maybe, maybe calling people brokies on, you know, on replies to tweets and stuff like that. Like at first it, it definitely was like I thought I was king of the mountain or king of the hill, like top dog. And I thought I was the shit there for a little while. Like if you met me in person, I wasn't like that, but like online I was like that. It was weird. I had like this, yeah, like different persona. But that, that wears off after a little while and you kind of resort back to like who you are, you know, deep down, which happened.

So once you realize there's levels, right, you get like humbled. But dude, 100%, the 1K day before noon tweets are like, it's part of the journey, man.

Yeah. Oh dude, if you look back on my timeline, there's so many of those, bro. Yeah.

With a little like champagne glasses. Like, dude, that's part of it. What was, what was like one of the dumbest things that you bought when you started making some money?

Dude, there's a shitload of 'em. I gotta say, well, actually it ended up not being dumb. I YOLO'd like $10,000 into a stock 'cause I just had a feeling. I don't even know why. I like, there's no technical analysis or market research done. I was just like, I'm gonna go throw $10,000 into AMC Entertainment. I had a feeling though, and that feeling was correct because it was like a few weeks before everything happened with AMC and GameStop.

Yeah.

I ended up breaking even after all that. That's because I thought I was some trader after it blew up and then just traded my way back down. But that's not like, I guess that's not money lost. More, more so like what I bought, a Gucci wallet. There was this like $700 Gucci wallet that I saw so many dudes had. It had like a snake on it. And I was like, I have to go buy that. And then Yeezys, I had a couple pairs of Yeezys that I regret ever buying because I never even wore 'em. I remember when me and my friends used to go out, I used to just like buy stuff like, you know, oh bro, like I got you, don't even worry about it. Don't even worry about it. Which was fun, but like I did that all the time.

Yeah.

Yeah. But also on the flip side too, like I would like give my money, a lot of money away to like good causes. Like I remember there was this one time where there was just There's this, I think it was like TikTok, TikTok back in like 2020, but it was a GoFundMe and it was like a really sad story and I was like, fuck it, $500. Like I'm just gonna do it. And so I also would do stuff like that as well, or I would tip really heavily or something like that. So some of 'em were dumb, some of 'em weren't, I guess you could say.

Yeah. Yeah. It sounds like pretty standard stuff. Like I've definitely bought my fair share of Shoes and clothes and I don't know, trips, stuff like that. Right. Which I don't know, dude, like there's some of that stuff, like giving, like giving it to good causes or like taking trips, having experiences. Like you can argue that that's not a, it's not a waste at all. Like it's an experience, right? Or like concerts and stuff.

Games.

Like sporting games and all that. So. Yeah, man. I don't know, like I started, I got into like traditional sales before I got into high ticket sales. Like I found this as a way to like get off of roofs and then I came in. But dude, I started getting like, I started getting comfy, dude. And I was like, I'm getting too comfy here. I've seen this high ticket sales stuff, like let me go and let me do it. And then it was like a good refresher of like What it's like to put your back against the wall, you know? So 100%.

Yeah.

So I got, got comfy, started buying stupid shit, and then came into high ticket sales and I don't know, it keeps you on your toes, you know?

100%. I, it's important, bro. Like for, for whatever reason, like no matter how hard I try, I do get comfortable and like sometimes I do let my foot off the gas a little bit. So like I have to regularly do things to like put my back up against the wall again. Like go buy an expensive program or go to the casino and have too much fun. Like it's, I just have, I don't know why I'm wired that way, but I do have to do shit that makes me like feel like a little bit of fight or flight again. So I'm, I'm kicked back into action. I'm, I'm pretty consistent. I feel like even on like my worst days, I'm more productive than like 90% of people. But sometimes I need that a little, a little, little bit of a boost.

Yeah. Yeah, same. I just bought like a kind of expensive coaching program. I was like, should I do it? I like paid in full, no sales call. It's like, well, I already did it now. So let's hope it's worth it, you know?

100%. That's big shit, dude.

So getting like, I feel like now we're progressing, going back to the timeline that we're on, making some money in sales. You stepped away to do the agency thing. You realize this kind of sucks. Like, let me go and do what I have been doing. Totally. I'd assume you probably hopped on a few different offers like a lot of us have. When did you get into like helping other people do this?

Yeah, so that's a good question, man. So I guess I got into it technically back in like early 2021. I just took on one guy, he hit me up on Twitter and was like, dude, I'll pay you like $600 to just like coach me. And I was like, sounds good, bro. Like, send the cash, let's hop on a call. And dude, that guy is printing right now. Like, it was the weirdest thing. Now, I didn't help him a ton. I just kind of connected him with the guy who like he works with and is continuing to work with now. Gave him some decent sales training. He's crushing it. But I was like, yo, that was kind of like my first overall taste of like helping somebody else out. And then in July of 2021, my now business partner Trey, who you've probably seen, he messaged me on Twitter as well and was like, hey dude, I don't have like a ton of money, but I would love to pay you to coach me because I know I'm not going to like succeed with this otherwise. So we hopped on a call. He was like the nicest kid that I've ever met in my entire life. I say kid, he was my age, but then he paid me and then he started making like 10 grand a month within like 2 months. And then his, I mean, his second position he got, I had nothing to do with. It was all through him, but he got to the point where his top month was $87,000 in a month. But he got to $10,000 within 2 months. So I was like, okay, that's case study 2 of 2. Like, maybe I'm decent at this. So I always kept that on like the back burner. I ended up taking on 2 more like ever one-on-one students within the next like year. I just, I never wanted that to be my main source of income. Plus I just didn't have the time for it.

Yeah.

And then those 2 guys crushed it as well. One of them, their top month is like $15,000. Another one of them, their top month's like $18,000. So I was like, okay, I'm good at this. I just like, I don't know why I had a limiting belief of like launching a program or something like that. I just didn't feel good enough yet.

Yeah.

But then, you know, I see guys who have like a quarter of my experience selling programs and doing super well. And so I had, it's at one point, this was in like September of last year, so a year ago, I was just like, Fuck it, dude. Like, we're, we're gonna build something out finally. We're just gonna rip the bandaid and go all in. And yeah, you know, it's gone really well, but it— yeah, it took a while to get to that point though.

Yeah, yeah, dude, that's— it's becoming really, really popular now, especially like with the— all these kids now wanting to come and make money online. It's not even about Like my angle is like, oh, you're doing sales in like this corporate setting and you hate it, but you wanna do something else with the same skillset. Like I could probably help you. But like those guys who go and they just mass market, like, oh, you're 18 years old and you wanna make money online. And they've like, they've in their bio, it's like closed $200K, we'll help you get into sales or something.

Yeah.

There's so many of those guys now, dude. There's so many.

I've always like, 'cause I know you do insane work. Like I have guys inside of my community who are also inside yours and they're like, dude, Dylan is like, he's one of the few just like super legit dudes. But like, I know on your timeline, just like mine, bro, you see these guys all the time. I, and I've tweeted about them sometimes, like subtweeted 'em and I'm just like, I'm, I'm just not even gonna do that. Like they'll run their course. They'll dwindle out at some point, but it's crazy.

Yeah. Yeah, man. I mean, it doesn't ever— for me, it was kind of a natural progression. Like, I remember that you guys also, I don't know if you started with low ticket. Did you start with low ticket? Yeah.

Yeah.

'Cause I remember you had the low ticket one and I started, dude, I started at $9 a month. $9 a month, bro. And I will teach you what I've done. And I just started like racking up proof, case studies, all that, slowly up the price. And then I realized like there's still these dudes out there who have closed $200K and then they're charging $7,000. And like these kids are getting, they're not these kids, but these people are getting burnt, dude. Like they're looking for someone really to help them. And then it's like guys like yourself and myself who are like, oh yeah, you Like, you worked with that dude? Like, I'm sorry, but if you come over here, it's probably gonna be different.

Totally.

It's funny how that works, dude. But I think maybe it's just like the natural sales guy thing to do. It's like, oh dude, I can sell this and make more money. Like, why don't I go and do that?

100%, dude. Yeah, there's a lot of those.

When do you think You know, looking back at it, when do you think the right time is for somebody to launch a coaching program?

Dude, that's a good question, man. I think minimum you need like multi-seven figures sold on like different kinds of offers. Like I, I've sold to more mature audiences, like people with money, but I've also sold to people who are like, like I sold to barbers, for example, that I sold for a barber coach on Instagram Deluxe, if anybody knows who Daniel Contreras is. But dude, selling with that audience was wild. It's like a totally different demographic than what I've sold with my most recent offer, which was stock market stuff. Because guys like don't have, like for whatever reason, they all carry cash or for whatever reason, like a lot of 'em are broke. And so you had to like really meticulously like work out payment plans or deposits with these guys and you had to get really good at like, you know, post price drop, like what to do to like get cash from these guys and stuff. You had to be very, very good at sales to like—

Yeah.

hold your own. Otherwise you weren't going to close anybody. So I think the right time is A, when you've identified something you can provide that you've never seen in the market before, which I think is exactly what you did and exactly what I did. And then on top of that, you've sold really well on different offers to different audience types as well.

Yeah.

I think that's sort of the time when you should, because then I feel like we both know guys that like didn't do that and they launched it too early and then they were kind of, they had like a blue ocean for a little while, just hiked their prices, but they had just like a bad program and a bad infrastructure. And then those guys 6 months later are getting torn apart. And so I think maybe quite a few of the guys who are like launching coaching that shouldn't be right now that don't fit those 2 criteria, that's going to happen to them at some point. You know?

Yeah. And I think another key part of that is like making sure that your marketing is based off of things that you've done. You know, like, like I, you know, I sell to the type of people that I sell to because that was me like 2 years ago.

For sure.

And like, you know, some of these other guys who spin up programs and they're like, Basically, I guarantee you'll make $30K a month in 90 days, but they've closed $200K. It's like, I don't know. Now, now student results is another thing, right? Like if you have 10 guys come in, they all start making $10K a month. Well, it's like, okay, I kind of know how to do this now. But, you know, starting out, you don't have that. And so like a lot of these guys come in, they take money for like, let's call it guaranteed placement, which is pretty tough to fulfill. I've had my hand at it.

100%.

But yeah, dude, they just like typical sales guy fashion, collect the cash and then they're like, all right, let's try to figure this out. Which it's tough, man. It's tough. What do you like when you have people coming into your program potentially? I'm curious, like, how do you sell it? Like, do you, do you kind of take like the laid-back approach?

Do you?

Because for me, it's like, dude, I don't really like strong-arming people into my stuff. Like, now if I'm gonna go sell for a company that has like a big sales team and I gotta like hit the quotas and stuff, like, I'm gonna close people. But like, for my own stuff, it's like, dude, I actually would rather this just be an enrollment call. Like, I don't wanna close you on this. Do you kind of do it the same?

100%, bro. Like me and Trey, my business partner, always talk about this and it's like when exactly what you're trying to, what you just said, like when you're trying to hit KPI, it's like, dude, you'll handle objections and loop back to asking for the close like 6 times if you have to close the deal. On my own offer, it's like if a dude has an objection and they're like, dude, I just really need to like think about this and like, and let this settle. I'm like, bro, you should do that. Like, I'm, dude, it's nothing.

Yeah.

Like any resistance, I'm like, all right, deuces.

Yeah.

Just because like, I don't know. I feel like when you start like it off on that foundation where you do strong arm them and then like you're in charge of the fulfillment, it's not going to be a good customer anyway. They're going to have a lot of nerves, like, you know, feel like the sky's falling at first. I just don't like have the energy to deal with that. I want guys who are like ready to rock all in. Like they know this is what they want to do. They know they want to learn from us. And if they're not at that point, I just go do your thing, bro. Go watch my YouTube videos, go through my tweets. Like, I'm not here to close you, you know? So I take the same approach overall. Yeah.

What's it like now, kind of being not out of the game, but like you said, you're not on a full-time closing offer now. What's that been like for you?

Dude, honestly, a breath of fresh air. I love closing. Well, I guess a breath of fresh air, but you also miss it. And here's kind of what I mean. So breath of fresh air in the sense where it's like you don't have a team meeting every morning at— I'm on PST, so they're always at 9:00 AM EST or 10:00 AM EST. So I don't have to wake up super early if I don't want to. You know, I don't have like 6 calls in the calendar and, you know, maybe I'm just not feeling like talking that day and I just gotta muscle through it. Because I did that for like over 4 years and it just got, it got really monotonous after a while.

Yeah.

So it's been a breath of fresh air in that sense, but it's like, I also kind of crave it in a sense too. It's really weird. Like now that me and my business partner are launched our new thing and we're going to start taking sales calls for that, I'm like excited again. That also might be because it's for more of like my own thing too. But yeah, it's very bittersweet, I guess you could say. I crave being back in the arena a little bit for sure.

Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I'm still taking my own calls for like my community and stuff, but I stepped out of closing full-time like 3 weeks back. Like I pulled somebody from the community to replace me and now I'm like, Leading the sales team, which is like a skill that I'd kind of been wanting to learn for a while. We've got like 8 reps, 6 of them from my community, which is funny. And let's go, dude. It's like a whole different type of arena. Like, it's fun, dude. It's like, it's challenging again. It's like there's potential, you know, like being on rev share deal. We had a good month the last month I was closing. We had a good month and it was like, if we can just get the management piece in place, we can double that. And like, we'll pay you on rev share. Like, let's fucking go, dude. Like, let's do it. So sure. It's a little bit different. Like, I do like to stay in tune with the sales stuff, right? That's why I take my own calls. I think you take your own calls as well, or you or Trey. And yeah, man, I mean, as long as people are still going in there getting results, you still have a big part of it is like the connections, right? Like the guys that, you know, in the space so you can provide that, you know, opportunities that others might not have access to.

100%.

Just being honest with where you're at, you know, like I tell, I don't tell people like, oh yeah, I'm still closing deals full-time, whatever. But yeah, like, I don't know, it's just part of that. You just graduate and go do things with the skillset that you've already acquired, you know? And so now you're You guys, you said you're going on to sell more like B2B. Is it to like agencies or more like what kind of B2B?

So we've noticed a really big hole in the market and I know you, I think I've seen you even tweet about this too. A really big hole in the market is there's guys who are really good at content marketing, but their sales system and infrastructure is just the worst thing you've ever seen in your entire life. Like you see where the holes are, And like, maybe like we've staffed dudes in operations like this and the sales guy makes say $8K to $10K a month, but you're like, dude, you can make like $13K to $16K if they just fixed how like their pre-call structure looks. Or if they just fixed like your commission structure a little bit. Like there's so many holes even in these like guys doing quarter mil, half a mil a month. It's crazy.

Yeah.

So the route that Trey and I are taking is we're going to go work on fixing sales teams' infrastructures one by one. Like, we're going to go put a ton of stuff in place, you know, one client at a time. And, you know, we'll take our rev share as well. Like, kind of what you're doing for your company. Just more, I guess, more on like a fractional level. Like, it's not all in on one company. It will be for a few months and then it's like, on to the next one.

Yeah.

Basically, that's kind of the route that we're taking now as it stands. Who knows if that'll keep up. We're just kind of testing it out. But But I think, I think it'll go well for sure.

Yeah, 100%. I mean, who else, who else is as equipped to do it as you guys? Like, not really anybody, you know? So I'm sure with the connections that you guys have and then the results you'll be able to, to pull, like, just if you just stick with it, it'll work, you know?

That's the goal, man.

It's tough though, man. Like, I've helped a couple of companies, not on like a, not even on a fractional level, more like consulting. And like, dude, it is, I found it tough to work with multiple B2B, well, not B2B companies, but like work with multiple businesses on like a super hands-on level. So if you're doing the model where it's like, we're gonna plug in for a few months, we're gonna fix the shit out of everything and then hand you off or like give you some sales reps and hand off, then it's probably better because it's a full-time job, dude, to like really go all in with a team.

Oh yeah.

So have you managed a team before?

Yeah, so I managed 2 teams. The first one, the company was kind of interesting and it sounds scammy, but it's not. It was a cryptocurrency staking company, so they help people who had over 6 figures in their bank account, put that into crypto blockchains to get like anywhere from 20 to 100% APY. It's like, sounds sketchy, but it was actually a super legit offer. I was a manager on that. And then I was, I sold for another sales training company back in the day. I know you know who I'm talking about, but sold for them and then did management for them as well. You know, reviewed sales calls and did the whole 9 there. So yeah, I've done management, not at a full-time level though, because I was still actively closing while I was doing the management.

Yeah.

time. So it'll be a little bit of a different sort of setup. I'll be full-time managing now, but yeah, I think it'll be all right.

You'll probably find yourself like taking some calls to get proof of concept too, right? It's like—

That's our motto is we're going to take a few and then outsource.

Yeah. Because it's like, there's nothing worse than not knowing, like, is it the sales rep or is it the system? And so it's like, well, let me just pull the sales rep out of the equation. Let me take the calls. Fix this and then plug them in. So yeah, that's probably smart. That's probably smart. Cool, dude. What, uh, I, I don't know, let's spit some game for like the guys looking to get into high-ticket sales. Why don't we, you know?

For sure, 100%.

What do you think is like the toughest thing about getting into high-ticket sales and turning substantial results quickly? Like, why do people get in and kind of like bounce around and not make anything happen for like 6 to 9 months?

I think it's like, I think it's the standards they have coming into it. Because it's like what we were talking about earlier. You got these guys who are like 70% close rate, you know, $5K offer, 15% commission. Like, you know, they're like saying numbers to get people to buy their coaching programs that Just aren't realistic. Like maybe it's with the occasional company, but like overall it's not. I think they come into it thinking that like either that's going to happen or that they can do this maybe working like a couple hours a day, which again, you can do on certain gigs. But then, you know, they come in with no experience and they realize that that's what they were sold on maybe isn't as realistic. And I think that they either stop or they take their foot off the gas a little bit, something like that.

Yeah.

So what we were talking about earlier, I like to under-promise and over-deliver when it comes to telling people what remote closing and high-ticket sales is. I'm not the guy who's going to be like, yeah, make $30K a month in 6 months. I'm like, yeah, you could probably get to $10K a month in a year if you just gave it consistent action. Because I like to get people bought in on that, maybe $10K a month in a year if you're consistent. Because usually if guys are consistent enough, they can reach that figure a lot sooner than that. And so they reach it sooner and they're Holy shit, bro. Like, yeah, this is crazy. Um, I, I think it's just an expectations thing coming in. Yeah, I would say.

Yeah, dude. And people, like, when you sign people on under those expectations and then they go on to like get hired super quick or make a good amount of money, they're like so hyped, you know? Versus if you set them the other way around and it, it's like, bro, you told me I would have like $10K a month in 3 months and it's like month 5, it's like, It's not good, you know?

100%.

It's not good. But you've probably seen a lot of people tweet this out. It's like, take away all the money in my bank account and give me a phone or something. I'll make it all, I'll make it back. I'll get to $10K a month, whatever. Like going off that idea, if you knew of high-ticket sales, Let's just say like, you know what you know now, but you don't have any connections. What are like, and let's say you don't have any money to spend either on coaching. What are you doing to get to $10K a month as fast as you can again?

Dude, so the first approach I'm taking, 'cause obviously you're gonna have to go off of like outreach. You can't join a community like yours or like mine. So like you're gonna have to just raw dog it and generate your own ops through Instagram, TikTok, Twitter, like all those things. So the route that I would take is I would literally go hit up anybody that I possibly can find that remotely looks like they have a high ticket offer. And I would customize the crap out of everything that I send to that person to try to get on board. Because a lot of guys, dude, they'll just use like copy paste templates till they find a course and go message somebody with a high ticket offer. And the thing is that just doesn't swing anymore. Like the Iman Ghazis have gotten into this space now. The Andrew Tates have gotten into this space now, like, and they're teaching guys to do that. So that person has dozens of people doing that exact same thing. So I would literally go on Loom. I would live on Loom, in fact, and I would literally just be like, hey, my name is Caden. I noticed this specific thing, this specific thing, and this specific thing about what you post and the content you have. I know that you have a program, or at least your profile hints at it. Here's exactly why I think you should hire me, even though I don't have experience. And just like having the utmost of like conviction and belief in yourself.

Yeah.

In that video and doing that literally all day. You know, I, that's, that's honestly what I would do right now. And then you're probably not gonna land the best position to start. Maybe you do. Like there's that, there's that guy who lands the $15K Montote e-roll from day 1 and you're like, how the hell did you do that? But you're probably not gonna land something very good. But that's okay. Like go in that position where it's not very good, the infrastructure's terrible. You're talking to less than favorable leads and just go rip it. Go get your nerves out, go take sales calls, go make some dials, get told to fuck off a little bit. Go get that volume in and those reps in. But do everything that you possibly can to make as much money or as most money as possible in that position. And then I always tell guys, even if it's a shit company, go get a video testimonial from the dude that you worked for or the girl that you worked And they can, if you worked your ass off, they'll say, hey, like we haven't made much money, but like Johnny here is a killer. He works his ass off and he's going to do well in any company that he works for. So then you can go leverage that to like a decent to good gig and be like, hey, I have experience. Maybe I don't have a quarter million sold under my belt yet, but like I know how the game works. I know how to use CRMs. I know how to update my tracking. I will work harder than anybody you have on your team right now. Just like give me a shot. And here's this testimonial that I got. showing that like, I am who I say I am, you know? And do that until you get in that decent to good one. Because once you get some money in the door, you get that gig with $3K, $5K, $7K, $10K month OTE, and you get just like 6 figures under your belt, hell, even like $50K, so many doors open up, man. It's like actually insane. It's just, yeah, you have to scratch and claw to get to that point if you're starting from scratch, you know?

Yeah. Once you, especially as like a closer, Once you've closed $1 million in high-ticket sales, you can almost go anywhere.

100%.

That's not like, yeah, that's, it's not easy, but it's not like unheard of by any means. Like you just have to get there and even less than that, dude. Like I've closed half a million. That's still attractive to a lot of people because there's not Compared to the total people in the marketplace, there's not a lot who can say that they've done that.

Totally.

So that's what I always—that's what I tell guys. It's like, dude, you just got to get to that first. Like those milestones, right? The hundred, the two hundred fifty, the five hundred. And guys, you know, like a guy that's in both of our things, Milad. Dude, perfect example. And he he hit the million, and now he's. He's got more than he can manage, right? So 100%, dude.

Nick Herman's another one. I know I've seen Nick Herman and your stuff. Young killer, started from scratch, but his work ethic second to none. I don't know, I think he probably got the offer from you. I don't think we placed him in what he was in, but he was in a shit gig before that and just like grinded. And he was like, I have no other option. And then did that to get into a great op now. And I think he's pacing at like a $10,000 a month, dude. As a 19-year-old, that's absurd. So yeah, dude, you just got to get that skin in the game.

Right. He told me he was going to flip a house, like from the stuff that he's learning in the course, like him and a buddy are going to go and flip a house now, which is sick. But yep, it really comes down to like the expectations that you have coming into it. Like for me, when I came into this, it was more, it wasn't about making crazy money. It was about getting out of my job and covering my living expenses. So I was like, dude, if I can make 3 grand a month and just survive and not drain my bank account, I know that I will have the runway to figure this out.

Absolutely.

And I would say like, it definitely does help if you're young and you're in the position to do this. Like, don't, don't half-ass, one foot in, one foot out, go part-time. Like, if you're gonna do it, commit to it. Make sure that you quit your job, you quit on good terms. Like, if you have to go back, you can do it. You know, the door's open. But pretend like it's not, you know, and just go hard, dude. Totally. Another thing that you hit on is like the messaging. Like people will send the same copy and paste, hey, you're looking for a setter, whatever. Like you can tell that they ripped this from like some program. I've been getting one lately, no names, but it's like, maybe you've seen them too, dude. I keep getting this shit that says like, You'd be surprised by my experience. Have you gotten those?

Yeah.

Yeah. I keep getting a lot of those and then I was surprised by their experience because it was none.

Zero.

So yeah, like I've had, I've had like 10 of those. So like, that's an example. Like if you're in a program and like, I tell people like, here are some things that you could mess around with, but like, don't fucking copy and paste and send the same shit to everybody. Like, What you mentioned is really good, like the Loom video and I know how to do this, this, and this. Here's the testimonial. Like that seems genuine. Even if you don't know like anything about, let's say stock trading and they sell a stock trading thing, like you could still provide value. And even me and, you know, we both get cold DMs. It's like I can tell when somebody actually puts a little bit of effort into it. And even if it's like not relevant to me, like I will respond. If I can tell that it's genuine and it's good, you know?

Totally. So dude, 100%.

Yeah, it's— stop, stop copying and pasting. You're gonna get your accounts like blocked like that too. And running, um, like super generic— a lot of these guys run like automations, right? If you just do that, I mean, automations, there's a time and a place for them, but you're just ramming like, let me, let me take your sales calls to thousands of people. You're gonna get fucking blocked, you know?

100%. You're gonna get blown on the timeline now, dude. Everybody's screenshotting everybody.

They're DM pitches. I've seen people like screenshotting and it's like, I could screenshot and reply. It's like, I don't gain anything from that. It's funny though. Totally. All right, let me, let me think of another like good high-ticket sales question to ask you. Okay. Let's say you're like, let's call it Twitter, Instagram, Facebook, wherever you would see these on social media. What are some things that you would see in a job posting that would let you know directly or indirectly that this is a quality opportunity?

That's a great question. I think like if you scroll through Facebook, right? Like there's like 1 out of 30 that's like legit. The rest are just like Nigerian princes who are promising you weird shit. But like, I guess a red flag that I see all the time is like absurdly high commission rates. Like we pay 23.5% commission. It's like, that's weird. Like that seems fishy to me.

Yeah.

I think In terms of like the good postings, I like to see obviously just like the person's real and they've posted before and they have a feed. Maybe even their like bio on Facebook or Twitter or Instagram has something about their product as well, just so it's not like some bot. You get that a lot on places like Facebook.

Yeah.

Second, I like to see that their numbers make sense. Like if they're like, we do $50K a month in revenue, OTE for this position is $15K a month. It's like, that doesn't, that makes zero sense, right? Like if you're, Yeah. If you do it mathematically, as a closer, you make 10%, as a setter, standard's pretty much like 5%. So if they're doing $50K a month, but they're promising you any more than like $5K a month, that's kind of weird. Maybe like 6 is okay if they have bonuses and stuff, but I always like to make sure that their numbers make sense as well. And then cherries on top is if they're super realistic just about what's going to go on in the job. If they're You're going to take 8 calls a day. We need somebody who's going to grind. Our team culture is very hardworking, very like, not like military style, but like we get our shit done and we do what we say we're going to do. The more realistic they are about that stuff, I think is a green flag too, because I've seen job postings where it's like 2 to 3 calls a day, $12,000 to $15,000 a month OTE. I don't know, like catering to the wrong people and just like making promises that seem hard to keep. So, you know, I think that helps too. Trying to think if there's anything else though.

Yeah. And dude, those, I mean, those opportunities where you take 2 to 3 calls a day and make 10 to 15, like they're out there, but they are very, like very far and few between, you know?

I think they're available to guys like you and I, like my, my last position that I worked for, I always joke about it. Dude, it was like a part-time $15,000 to $20,000 a month, no joke. But the only reason I was able to unlock that position was because I had like $4 million under my belt. Yeah. So they're like, yeah, we just need a killer, somebody to come in, take calls, do follow-ups, manage the CRM. But like, this is a pretty ideal sales job, you know? Yeah. So that, that was pretty cool. They're definitely out there.

They're out there. But I mean, you've probably seen it since you've gotten into the space and maybe you can speak on this a bit, but like, market sophistication. Like the sales reps are like, you know, before in 2020, you could come from anything and land a closing role and make like $8K a month. Right. But now it's like, you're not coming from, you're not coming from like door-to-door solar and making $15K in your first month in most cases. Right. Like there are people who do it, who like land that gig and they just get in right time, right place. But like If 100 people come from door-to-door solar, it's gonna be like 5 to 7 who go and make like $10K a month in one month, right? So what, what, how have you seen that play out? Like, what do you think? How fast is it progressing? Where is it going when it comes to like the bar being raised on, you know, high-ticket specific like resumes and stuff?

How do you mean specifically?

Like just how the job or the candidate pool or the applicant pools, like they're just becoming more, it's harder to break into these $10K a month plus opportunities. I'm just curious, like, have you seen that progressing pretty quickly over the last like few years? Do you see it like just getting higher and higher? Like what's your take on it?

Totally. I, I actually talked about this a few days ago to a couple guys of mine, but like, I think as a beginner, your fo— actually at any level, like your focus should be on like stacking as many competitive advantages as you possibly can, big or small. 'Cause there's thousands of dudes getting into this shit right now. Like, like I said, Andrew Tate's, Iman Gadzhi's like mass producing programs on this stuff, whether they should or not. It's neither here nor there, but everybody's getting into it now. And most of these guys are just complete beginners, like 18, 20, 22-year-olds who are looking to make $10K a month online. So like you are in like one of those vending machines now that has like 85 of the same looking stuffed animals in it. There's nothing like different about you at this point. So I tell people to stack as many competitive advantages as they possibly can. One competitive advantage on a small scale is like, You personalize the crap out of every video you send to people and they can tell that and they sense that. That's a competitive advantage right there. That automatically elevates you and puts you on top of like 80% of the dudes, 90% of the dudes that are at your same experience level. Another one is like, even if you have to take on just a dog crap gig at first, just to get some experience, some skin in the game, even if you close one deal, it's like that one deal and you worked your tail off enough to get a video testimonial from that business owner. That's a huge competitive advantage, that puts you on top of like 98% of those dudes now. And you should be trying to actively stack as many of these competitive advantages as you possibly can because it is rising. Like there, there are more and more dudes getting into this, you know?

Yeah.

And then like a big example of a competitive advantage is knowing somebody like you or knowing somebody like me, like having a direct network of like good opportunities for the most part. And you get trained at a high level too, so you can actually go do well. That's like a large scale of like a competitive advantage that not everybody has the luxury of, but like stacking as many of these as you can so you're more favorable and a company's more inclined to choose you over somebody of your similar experience level, if that makes sense.

Yeah, man. The referral, I've seen the referral go so hard. Like, dude, I was interviewing guys yesterday and today for different positions, but good busy business owners don't want to blast out on Facebook or Upwork. They want to come to guys like us and, you know, just say like, hey, who do you have that's good? Who do you have that's already closed real estate, half a mil minimum? You know?

Totally.

And there's, I mean, I know that we know a lot of the same people, but then we also probably have other like Like guys that— I have guys that you don't know, you have guys that I don't know. And so like from the outside in, it's probably tough to understand that it works like that, but it's just how high-ticket sales works. Like all the business owners, all the coaches, the agency owners, a lot of them like know each other. It's a very tight-knit space.

Mm-hmm.

And so like if you can just get good with somebody who has access, who can like open that door up for you a little bit, and you can be good enough to be recommended, it just makes it so much easier. Like, I'm not gonna name any names, but I know there's a few guys that you and I both know that they kind of just go around and like buy into all these programs for the sake of having access, which I would do the same thing, dude. It's like, oh, this program's $5,000. Like, okay, let me go get into it. And that's like—

Totally.

like half a month of a $10K month and it's gonna protect me if I ever am out of a job, you know, 'cause now I have access to like all these, like I would be doing the same shit. Just like hedging the risk a little bit. It's pretty smart.

For sure.

Yeah, man. It's a weird space, but it's evolving quickly. I'm curious to see like where it goes in the next year or 2 years, especially now that like Tate and Iman and all these guys are hopping into it. How do you see it changing over the next couple of years?

I think it's become like mass market in our space now. Like I used to feel like this closing stuff was kind of secret in like 2019, 2020. Like nobody knew about it. People were DMing me like, hey bro, what the hell is this stuff? Like, this sounds crazy. Like let's hop on a call. Now everybody knows about it. So I think the marketers, the good marketers in our space, you and I both know plenty that we can count. The good marketers are going to get people introduced to the idea and they're going to get that like business or that customer initially. And I think how it's going to work is like people that come to you and I are going to be people who have either been burned before or they realize that they bought into something that was too, it just sounded too unrealistic and they want to like be taught by someone or learn from someone who has like proof that they, what their stuff works overall. Like I think it's going to be something where like those marketers get all the guys introduced and they buy their stuff initially. And then eventually those guys are going to like indulge and do our kind of content or other like big sales trainers. Because there's some really good ones out there too. And they're going to go to those guys. As well. Do you know what I mean? That's, that's kind of where I see it going, but I guess we'll see.

Yeah, I think, I mean, one way that I've been able to kind of differentiate, because there's a lot of people out here doing it now, is just like leaning into my background and like my story. And so like connecting with people who were where I was versus like, oh, you want to make money online? Like, I'll, I'll teach you how to make more money than this guy could. Like, that's It's like an uphill battle, you know? It's, you're not really gonna get that far, not that far doing that. 'Cause then you're gonna have to like start buying Lambos. It's like, dude, I'll show you how to make more money than this, dude. Like, I promise you I'm better at sales. Like, that's another thing, dude. I never even take that angle of like, I'm the best at sales. Like, I think I'm good. I think I'm better than most at sales. But like another angle of mine is like, dude, I'm not a natural salesperson by any means. Like I am definitely more of that like reserved, quieter type and like everything that I know I had to learn. And so like, yeah, I think people relate to that as well. Like you don't actually have to be some super outgoing charismatic dude to make money in sales, you know?

100%. Or drive a Lambo or something like that. Like you could just be a regular dude.

Just be— yeah, dude. And sales, like, sales can help a lot of people if you're selling something good, you know, like you can genuinely be helping people. A lot of people, for some reason, they think like, oh, salespeople bad, used car dealership, like you're gonna sell me a shitty car or whatever. But no, dude. Last year I was selling a fitness offer for most of the year. And I knew, like, I was able to close hard as fuck on it because I knew the shit was like saving these dudes. Like, they were, they were doing really good work. And I was seeing guys that I'd like hard, I'd kind of hard close into the program, go and like lose 40 pounds and like get their confidence back and go on dates. And I was like, then I could confidently close and say like, you, you guys need this, you know? Like, totally. You had no other option. But yeah, man, you don't have to be— all the only prerequisite you need is like you have to want to do it. You have to be open to the idea and you have to be willing to like eat shit for a little bit if that's what it takes. It doesn't always take that, but sometimes it does.

So 100%.

What do you think? Uh, I'm gonna wrap it up. I got a call coming up, but what do you think Some of these guys that don't make it, dude, they come in, they, you know, interview a few times, maybe they hop on an offer and they, they just like disappear one day. You never hear from them again. Like, why do you think they don't make it?

And they get shitty wiring in their brain. Like me, me personally, when I got into this online business stuff, I had, I had a lot of like limiting beliefs. Or if I let those limiting beliefs like persist, I would've been done for. Like I would, I would've quit before I ever even got started. I think guys come into this either expecting quick success or, you know, they come into this thinking that it might not take as much work as it does, or I don't know, but they, they come into it with like shitty mental wiring and like bad expectations. And so they just quit at a point, you know, like I've, I've seen the guy, like the guys who come into it and they're consistent every single day for 6 months and they've committed to that and they're like, I'm doing this, whatever. Like no matter what, those are the guys that win every single time. And they're wired the right way coming into this, if that makes sense. Like I, I had to rewire a bunch within myself before I ever became successful with this stuff. And I think just some dudes come into it with You know, they don't got the right software going on like in their bodies. So if they have some personal work to do before, you know, they, or something has to happen to them that lights a fire under their ass that makes them want to take the level of action that's needed to succeed in a game like this.

Yeah, man. And I feel like a lot of people, a lot of like victim mindset out there and a lot of people just like with their guard so up. around this like online business stuff. It's like, it's a scam, dude. Like saying sales is a scam, like sales as a profession is a scam. It's like, I'm sorry you feel that way, but like, dude, when you, when you think about like, when you think about it, people come into high ticket sales, they're like, is this real? Is this a scam? Like, dude, it's a sales job.

100%.

Are sales jobs real? Yes. Like, are more people Building online courses, education, B2B services nowadays. Yes, like it's a growing industry. It's a real industry. It's just not as well now. It is a little bit more out there, but like it's not as out there as far as like finding good opportunities and stuff like that as let's say tech sales, right? You go on LinkedIn, boom, all day, dude. Hundreds of applications. Yeah, but yeah, man, I feel like I've seen. Similar stuff. It's like these guys just, they may not even really believe that it's possible for them. It might feel so outta touch. They're like, this is stupid. I'm gonna go fucking work at, I don't know, I'm gonna go work retail or something, you know?

100%.

They don't make it, but yeah.

They think that they're like, like the guys who made it were just destined to make it and that they weren't for some reason. It's just like, dude, Everybody has the same capabilities. Like I could go technically be Elon Musk if I wanted to. It'd take my entire life and like 18-hour days every single day and a level of like, just brain power that I probably don't have, but like I could if I wanted to. Right. So it's like, I think they just think that they're different than everybody else, but we all have the same capabilities.

Yeah. No, there's definitely some people, man, like there's some predetermined things like where you're born, if you have an accent, stuff like that that will make this harder. But dude, I have seen guys do this From anywhere, bro. Like totally anywhere. So 100%, dude. I guess that's a it's kind of a good spot to wrap it. I gotta jump soon, but anybody who's listening to this that wants to connect with you, where do you want to send them?

Dude, I would say I'd say Twitter, YouTube, probably like Twitter, Kaden Jara. YouTube is Kaden Jaramillo. So it's my full last name, J A R A M I L L O. I don't have a ton posted on there. I think I'm going to ramp it up though. We'll see. And Twitter, I'm always throwing shit on the timeline and seeing what sticks. So.

For sure. And if you guys haven't heard by now, like we both run our own programs that'll help you get into high ticket sales. They're kind of similar, kind of different, but check them both out, see which one fits for you. If you're on the fence, like I know there's going to be some of you that are watching this that are interested in high ticket sales, If you're on the fence, check 'em both out, see which one's for you.

So I've only heard of good things from your stuff, bro. From— I, I know plenty of guys that have been through and I've only heard good things, so I completely agree.

Likewise. Like, if I, if I knew— for those watching, if I knew Kaden wasn't doing good work, I wouldn't have asked him to come on. Like, I know he's legit. He's an OG in this space. So if you made it this far, guys, thank you for watching. Kaden, thank you for coming on, man.

Appreciate you, bro.

Alrighty, awesome. Let's see. All right, I'll trim it up.