He's in tech sales but made $25,000 last month with remote closing

All right, you guys, we got a big interview here. This is officially the first time we've ever had someone in for a second interview, and it's for good reason, I promise you. 2 years ago, Davin and I filmed an interview for him. I think when he hit $4.5K part-time while in tech sales. We're back, as you might be able to tell from the title or thumbnail. Davin had a really big month, $25K last month, pacing not quite there this month, but still $10K plus. And so Davin's back for round 2. Thanks for coming on, man.

Absolutely, man.

Absolutely. So I don't even know where to start. If you guys actually, I'll tell you, pause this one and go watch the first one. 'Cause this was 2 years ago. We're now 2 years later. Davin's got a house, he's married. What, what else is new? And like, if we're just thinking back to that interview between then and now, like what else is different in your life since then?

Man, just the journey, man. Growth, uh, marriage, learning how to be a husband. Honestly, just learning how to be a better man. A lot more responsibilities, man. So it was just a learning process all over to be honest with you.

Yeah. No, dude, we were talking a little bit before this and like just catching up. It gets me like hyped to see just like people crushing it. It's also unique here because not only you're doing really well in high ticket, you have a tech sales role that we're going to dive into how you kind of juggle the two. And then we were talking about the product that you sell, you're using the product and you're also making a good amount of money with that. So like, This is a really good example of like, okay, high ticket sales, see it through, meet the right people, play your cards right. You can do it, you know, alongside a W-2 with base and benefits. You can use the products that you sell, whether it's like real estate, trading, fitness, any of them, dude, use them to gain. So this is gonna be good, man. So let's, uh, I guess for the people that haven't seen the first interview, can you give us just the quick background, like how you even got into high ticket? To begin with?

Honestly, don't know how, just randomly started following people on Twitter and I came across your tweets and I was working, uh, I was an SDR at a cybersecurity company. So I just, I was hitting quota with like doing little to no work. It was just, it just came easy to me. Just a hustler, man. And I was like, dude, I have a lot of time on my hands to do something else. Let me just, you know, see what else I can get into. Saw your tweets and this was when you had the Slack community. So I'm like a, I'm like an OG member. Like $30 a month. And I was like, all right, well, based off the tweets, it seems real. Let me just dive into it. What's $30 a month going to hurt? Uh, and then yeah, the rest was history, man. I got in, took in like all the nuggets you provided and guys that's been in the high ticket space for like a couple of years, started like doing cold outreach. And I think within the first month I landed a role with an e-commerce offer. The rest was history since then.

When you first got into high ticket, were you doing setting?

Yeah. Setting for e-commerce offers. Cool.

And what was it like when you first started juggling alongside the W-2? Because, you know, that's kind of a thing that, uh, it's not the easiest thing to do. Like one, managing the schedule, you're working 2 sales roles, which are pretty demanding roles, and then making sure your performance isn't dipping and you're actually doing like excelling in both of those. Like how did you kind of learn how to work your calendars together to manage both sides of it?

Yeah. Uh, wasn't easy, man. Like, honestly, this is what my mentor just told me, like, with anything just outside of work, just do time blocks for everything. Have a block for this, have a block for that. So I had dedicated hours for the W-2. That was the main thing. Like, keep the main thing the main thing. Like, okay, let me make sure I take care of the W-2 first and then everything else, the comfort that high ticket offer, you know, grind it out as well. So just time blocks, you know, do an hour cold call block for the W-2 and then hit the phones heavy for the high ticket role. You know, do some admin work for the W-2 role, make sure I, you know, respond to all the emails. Talk to the AEs and then yeah, just overall just blocking everything out for the day throughout the week.

Yeah. What was it like for you going from, still in tech basically the whole time, going from setter to closer while in tech at the same time? Was that hard?

Uh, it was tricky at first for sure. Um, definitely a little overlap, uh, between the two roles, but, uh, once again, just, you know, got the gist of it. I think that the benefit of high ticket sales is you can be a little more crafty with your schedule. Obviously most sales managers, they want you to take a, you know, a certain amount of calls per day, per week. Just once again, once I got the gist of it, okay, I can block off, you know, this part of the morning and this part of the evening to take 2 or 3 calls in these 2 blocks. I'm good to go. So yeah, overall, just organization of my schedule, uh, wasn't easy at first at all.

What about just like from a skillset point, you know, going from setter to closer is a big point of interest for, for those people going through that transition. Like, what do you, what did you do to prop yourself up as like someone worth taking a shot on as a closer?

Yeah, man. I would say I was not good at first. And I think my first offer, I was doing horrible, uh, closing on at first. Uh, I think over time you just get better with reps. You know, you learn how to speak to people, you pick up on, you know, the objections that you're losing deals on. And yeah, there's, I think reps with anything, you just become better over time once you get thrown in the fire. So yeah, setting and closing, 2 completely different ballgames. Uh, just took, you know, Shout out, trust the journey, trust the process, and get those reps in.

Dude, I actually, this just reminded me, you were on an offer at some point that I don't know if I connected you to it, but I remember we used to like watch your call recordings. What offer was that? Uh, that was, you don't have to say like the name, but like what, what kind of offer was that again?

That was like a social media marketing, uh, role. Like, uh, it was like under Andrew Tate's.

Yeah. Yeah. Okay. I remember, dude.

Yeah. Someone was launching.

An offer. Yeah, that's dude. I completely forgot about that.

I did too. Yeah, that was like really my first real closing role, and it wasn't bad. I didn't do horrible, but like, as a new offer, he was just like, "Yeah, this is horrible." I think you told me flat out, like, "This is a horrible call." That's funny, dude.

Damn. Yeah, that that that alone had to be like a year and a half, more than a year ago, because a year ago, good, good segue here. A year ago we had the meetup in Austin that you came, came to. And, um, a lot of people that you and I both know, and we're doing it again this year, but that is where you got connected to the current role, uh, through the meetup, right?

Yep. On, on the yacht, on the boat, the boat party.

On the yacht. Closed. At the time you probably didn't realize it, but like looking back, it's like, damn, that's a, that's a pretty big deal I closed right there.

Absolutely.

All right, dude. So now let's get into the present day. Uh, we sent out a trophy. I posted the photo of it. Um, but yeah, we sent out the trophy, $25K a month. You're still in the tech sales role, base and benefits. Uh, you moved into management though. You, you were talking about it a little bit before. Uh, what is it like? Because before I remember asking you, you were strategically an SDR because you could time block your schedule, but like, What is it like now being an SDR manager versus the SDR? Like, is it easier to time block like that?

Yeah, definitely easier. A little bit of quota relief, you know, you're over people, you're pretty much responsible for people hitting quotas. So like a different ballgame now. But yeah, I mean, I think with most sales roles, that's the benefit of sales. If there's a cool manager that's not going to micromanage you, as long as you're hitting KPIs and you're hitting your numbers, nobody should be You know, breathing over your shoulder and bothering you. Like, I think for the most part, with any of my sales roles I've had, I've always been the person that I'll find a way to hit quota, you know, do what you gotta do, grind it out, get to that point.

I'll say that about you. I can tell, like, you work, you work a lot, man. You grind, but it shows, like, you're, you know, got a house and you're doing well and all that. Like, that's awesome. What, uh, tell me about making $25,000 closing. Like, doing that on its own is already hard. You're doing it alongside a lot of other stuff. What did that look like? Like, what, what does your schedule look like? How many calls on average are you taking? Like, talk about that a little.

Yeah, uh, I usually leave the mornings for myself, go to the gym early in the morning, right around 6, 7 AM morning, taking all my like W-2 duties and work. And then I'm taking roughly around, you know, 6 or 7 calls per day, Monday through Friday, sometimes weekends. I did do a little bit of weekends, um, this past month. That's how I hit $25K, but mostly 6 or 7 calls working from like 11:30 AM Eastern to right around 7:00 PM Eastern, Monday through Friday.

That's a lot of work, bro. I get, when I was closing full-time, after like call 5 or 6, I start to lose my voice a little bit.

I'm definitely, I definitely get there. Yeah, I have a little 2 like 30-minute blocks where I just go out and, you know, touch grass, breathe in some air, go walk my dog for a little bit and hey, drink some water. I'm right back at it.

Yeah. I mean, it helps when you're, you know, making some solid money too. And then you got like a good, you know, you're on a, you're on a, not a small offer. Like you got a full team, there's some good camaraderie, some good competition. Can you tell us a little bit about just like the different types of offers you've been on? Obviously, you know, you just came off $25K a month. You have to be on a decent offer to do that.

Yeah.

But like, what do you look for in good offers versus bad offers? Like if something's a little bit newer, What would make you inclined to like take a bet on that? Like talk about offer selection a little.

Yeah. Um, one of the key things I learned when I first started, and I think you always hit it on this, even when I first got into IT sales, it's like looking into like what they're doing revenue-wise. Number one, that's a big indicator on whether that's a good offer or not. Another thing I personally look for is like the tenure of the closers and setters. Like how long have the closers and setters been on the team? Each closer on a team has been there only 2 or 3 months. You know, that's probably an indication that it's a, it's a closer workshop or seller workshop. They're turning through closers pretty much every other month. Those are 2 of the biggest things I look for, you know, revenue. What are the closers actually doing? Like, you know, it's one thing from somebody just telling you, there's a lot of offers out there saying, hey, this is a $30K, $50K a month opportunity. And when you actually get on the offer, you barely make it $5K. So like actually visually seeing it. On paper, like, oh, these closers are doing XYZ. This closer has been here for almost 6 months to a year. They're doing $300K, $500K per month. That's usually a good indication that is a solid offer. And also, like, just getting a vibe test, a vibe check from the actual offer owner and the sales manager as well as a, you know, indication of a good offering also.

There's a lot of people in tech sales, dude, because they're in the world of sales, they're kind of paying attention to other stuff, but they see the high-ticket stuff and they're like, Skeptical. I think that's reasonable. You know, there's a lot of people marketing this in a weird way. But if you were talking, like if someone in tech sales, which maybe you've had this conversation before, they're like, bro, you're crushing it. What are you doing outside of this? What is this high ticket sales thing? Like if a tech salesperson was like, you know, I don't know about high ticket sales. It seems, I don't know if it's too good to be true or like uncertain. Like what, what would you tell that person?

Yeah. Honestly, man, I would tell them like, I thought it was too good to be true because I mean, the same thing I was seeing 3 years ago, I'm seeing it even more now. Uh, you know, hey, you know, work remote, you're going to make $30,000, $40,000 a month. And like, obviously nothing's that easy. So that's honestly one of the main reasons why I kept my W-2 job. I was just like, okay, let me— there was guys out there charging $4,000 for their communities, you know, $10,000 for high-ticket sales coaching. I saw you on Twitter, like $30 a month, I will give you everything you need to know. How to get a sales job. I'll teach you how to vet offers. And I just said, hey, let me like just dip my toes in the water first. Let me not just go all in. Um, because I mean, if I were to do that, I mean, you've seen my, my, my journey. Like there was a couple offers that just, you know, fly-by-night offers. And if I did quit my W-2 role for that, like, yeah. Now, so I think the biggest thing I'll tell anybody, man, like some people may be against this, but just like take it with a grain of salt. Like, hey, just dip your toes in, see how real it is. Like keep your W-2 job if you have it, but like, You know, once you actually see that it's real, you hop on a few offers, um, you see people actually doing, you know, $10K to $12K a month. You know, it takes some time to find good offers like that, but like, you know, build your way from the ground up, build those connections. Um, it's definitely out there. It just takes some time to build those connections and, you know, find those diamonds in the rough out there for sure.

Yeah, I would definitely, you know, I, if you can do both B2 and high ticket, why not, man? Keep your base and benefits. But if you can't, then You know, figure it out. But I would, I would like to ask you too, man, like you're, you're crushing it with high ticket sales. You're using the product, doing well with that. Has the thought crossed your mind to like quit?

Absolutely. Now that I know it's actually tangible and real, uh, that was just really one of the main things for me. Like I have responsibilities. I'm married now. Like even when I started high ticket sales, I had a girlfriend. We were living together. So my biggest thing was like, I don't want to put her in a situation to where like She's going to be the breadwinner. She's going to take care of me because I'm chasing a dream. I'm chasing a new journey. My mom, my dad taught me better than that. So like, the best thing I can do is like just dip my toes in. And once I find a good opportunity, that's always been my thing. It's not by choice. It's really just responsibilities at the end of the day. Yeah, I mean, dude, I had to, you know, get in the house. You got to have a W-2. They really don't look at 1099 commissions as, you know, a good thing to look at for, you know, buying a house. So really just, you know, Now that I'm a little bit more established, absolutely. This offer now is becoming established. I actually took a chance on this offer because it was a brand new offer when I hopped on it. It was brand new in November. Like I was the first closer and I was doing roughly around $5K or $6K a month at first. And now like all the closers were consistently doing roughly around $10K to $12K, $15K, $20K here and there. So now that I see that, absolutely. The thought is, you know, if this is consistent, you know, by the end of this year, I definitely will. Strongly consider quitting W-2 for sure.

Yeah. I always like to highlight this, man, because, you know, you've been in this for 2 years, maybe almost 3 years. And, you know, high ticket sales is volatile. You said it, I'll say it. Like, bro, there's months where you make, you can make $25,000 and there's months where you make less than $10,000. Right. And that's just the way of the game. But like, when it's good, it's really good. It's like, you don't, you don't have to win all the time, but when you win and you can win pretty big, like it, it usually evens out to be positive. Right. And I was going to say too, like now having, have you passed the Million dollar close, Mark?

Oh yeah. I, I've been surprised by it. Okay.

Well, I didn't, I wasn't too sure.

Yeah.

But like now, dude, you're at a point where, yeah, like the industry itself is volatile, but you have a solid resume cuz not everyone can say they're past a mil. That's kind of like the benchmark, right? Like you're vet, you're a vet and you have the network too. So one thing that I talk about a lot, man, is like working in agencies and I, I would encourage, like you're in an agency, I would encourage anyone who's trying to figure this out. Go, if it's a good opportunity, don't, don't get on a bad opportunity in an agency just to be in an agency. But if you're a killer in an agency, dude, and that offer slows down, they're not going to hesitate to like put you on something that isn't slow, you know?

Exactly.

How, if you, uh, this is a fun exercise we'll do here. If you offer, they're like, you know what, dude, we're going out. Like we're done with this business. We're going to shut it down. What would be like your very first next steps to just go and get a new offer and start earning again as a closer?

Yeah, man. Uh, the community I'm in, And then like offer owners, other closers I've worked with, that's literally what I've done. It actually happened before, like reach out to your network. And I think it's the biggest thing about this space. This space is kind of small, smaller than most people think. Like everybody knows everybody. I think the biggest thing I would do is like, it's probably what happened with the last offer I closed on before the offer I got on now. Like I was closing decent on a horrible offer that's no longer an offer right now. The offer owner, we were on a yacht at your, the, the retreat in Austin, Texas. And I was like, hey man, I'm actually like closing decent. I showed him my numbers and he was telling me about another opportunity. He was like, hey, we're actually going to launch this new offer. I met the, uh, marketing guy. He was like, yeah, like this is the guy behind this other offer that's already doing $500K to $1 million a month. And I told him, I was like, dude, you got to put me on this offer. Here's my number. Here's my contact information. Let me know. And then literally, I think the next week after the sales retreat in Austin, Texas, they hit me up, put me in the WhatsApp group, and the rest was history. That's like literally the offer wall right now.

That's how it happens too, man. Let's just, you can't like reverse engineer that. You can't be like, yeah, the way that I'm going to make $25,000 a month by this time next year is like, go to this event, talk to this, like you just got to be in this, in the right spot, right? You got to talk to the right people, but the network is so big, man. Like I, I hate to like really talk about it like that. Cause like when people say network and you don't know what they're talking about, you're like, like, here we go. Like this dude's gonna say something that doesn't really mean anything. But in this space, man, like you, if you know more managers, business owners, marketers that are already in these companies, like it is just so much easier for you to get in these companies.

100%.

And if you're coming from not really much of a sales background, like being in a community or like any kind of program, like Having that stamp on your resume definitely helps.

So. Organically as well, man, I'll say like, I didn't try to force it. I think one of the main things was just like, we actually were genuinely friends, like me and the previous offer owner. And then like the other closers, we still kept in good contact. So like, you know, Dave is a cool guy. I know he works hard. You know, he closed decent on this offer. Like he knows, he's knowledgeable. They already knew my background. That's another good thing as well. Like just need Just us being already acquainted, us knowing each other. Like, I know David's super knowledgeable about, you know, a trading offer, right? I have a trading background, so like it would make sense to put him on this offer. Yeah, the rest was history. So I think the biggest thing people can do is just like build genuine relationships. That's the biggest thing. Uh, the rest is history. Everything's gonna work itself out. You have the skill, you have the network. I mean, you know, magic's gonna happen there.

So what do you— I want to like kind of zoom out now and let's look at Everything as a result of being in tech, killing it in high ticket, using the product to make more than a lot of people will make in high ticket itself. Like, what are you doing with all the money, man? You just bought a house, but like, are you saving for something big? Are you putting it into investments? Like, what does that look like?

Definitely investments. Like, the offer I'm on right now is a trading offer. So like, I just literally throw some of my commission check right into like the the algorithm. So I throw it into the algorithm itself. It trades like futures, S&P, Dow Jones, NASDAQ, all that good stuff for me, and then. Yeah, Baudelaire House. And then I actually go to Italy next week, so that's going to be fun for my birthday, going to the Amalfi Coast. My goal right now is definitely like, you know, you mentioned it earlier, like have I contemplated quitting W-2? Absolutely. Like I think I'm getting to a point to where I'm getting comfortable and like, you know, I'm not— I wouldn't classify myself as rich, but I'm like at the point where I'm comfortable. I don't really check the bank account, so like now I can start vacationing more, you know, spending more time with the wife, not working as hard as I'm working like right now because I am working crazy hours, but like, it's allowing me the freedom to like have that, you know, the luxury of choice is what I would say.

Yeah, dude. We'll wrap this up in a sec, but I want to talk a little bit because you're, this is really unique because you got the perspective of doing both sides well, like high ticket and tech. But when it comes to like 1099 versus W-2, you know, a lot of people in W-2, they're like, oh, you know, I need to do this because it's stable or like benefits or whatever, but When you're really looking out at like, at the end of the day, what's going into the bank account? Like, what's your, what's your take on, you know, is, is high ticket sales risky based on what you can earn? Because 1099, you get tax benefits too. Like, how, how do they really compare? I'm not, I don't have some agenda for you to say high ticket sales is better, but I'm curious, like, where in your mind, like, the priority is kind of not priority, but like, How you compare those 2, you know?

Yeah. More autonomy in high-ticket sales for sure. You know, more flexibility, uncapped commissions if you find a quality offer. And I think that's the biggest hurdle for most people is just finding that quality offer. You know, the safest thing to do is stick in the W-2. And that's really why I've kept the W-2 so long. Like, you know, if you perform a bad— if a bad week, you have a bad month, you have a paycheck coming in every 2 weeks, you know, and maybe you get decent enough to get some commissions on the side. So it just feels comfortable. But like when you find a W-2, I mean, not a W-2, a 1099 role, that's actually, you know, an established role, a good sales team, good marketing. I think that's a good, another key piece people don't think about, like the marketing behind it. Like how long has this guy been in the game? I've been on offers where, you know, marketing was good one month and then the ad campaigns got shut down on the offer shot.

Yeah.

Like when you find a quality offer, I will say right now, I didn't think about, I didn't think this way, you know, even 6 months ago last year. Like when you find a quality offer in high-ticket sales, it really doesn't compare to a W-2 role because I mean, it's uncapped commissions, man. Like you can't, you can't really.

Yeah. That's the thing in tech right now, dude. Cause we work with a lot of people coming from tech and that's why I was stoked to run this interview back because, bro, I mean, okay. In high ticket, the, the marketing could die and then you got to find another job.

Yeah. Been there, done that.

Bro, in, uh, tech, like you could get, they could implement AI and then they do mass layoffs, right? Like your, your job security. Is it— I mean, it might be there depending on who you're working with, but it's not like what it used to be, you know?

It's not. And that's, that's actually happened to me as well. Like, thank God I had another role on the side to where I wasn't panicking. I literally— actually, my first SDR role, I don't even think I've told you this before, the first SDR role I had with a cybersecurity company, I was the number one SDR for the team. Got promoted to AE, signed the contract. The next week, they pretty much Told everybody to come back in the office. The company was based in Ohio. I'm living in Atlanta, Georgia. They laid me off immediately. Thank God I still had like a high-ticket sales role on the side. I was doing $45K a month. But yeah, like I have seen that numerous times, like the top of the chart of the closers, the 80s, and a W-2 role get laid off or just AI or just company restructuring.

Yeah.

It's not as secure as it once was in a W-2 space at all. So.

Dude, someone that we, we both know, I don't know how well you know him, but we were talking about him before recording. Uh, he left high ticket, so he's going through a transitory phase of his life, got married, expenses, like just growing up. Right. And he went, left high ticket, got an AE role with a monster SaaS company. Like everybody knows this company.

Yeah.

And turns out the, I think the OTE was like $220,000, $240,000 big base pay. But like the AEs were making like half of that. Right. And so like, just like in high ticket. Like they say $30K to $50K and then you don't make that. It's crazy. I mean, yeah, it's W-2. Yeah, you get benefits, but bro, they're going to be implementing AI. They're laying off people. OTEs can still be inflated. Like there's a lot more similarities between the two than most people think.

100%. And it's just, it's still cutthroat in W-2 as well. Like if you don't get your number in tech sales as an AE or SDR, you're getting cut. I've seen it done, uh, numerous times, man. Like you have, you can have consistency of 6 months and you have 2 back-to-back months you're on a PIP. And then everybody knows like PIP is what? Uh, paid performance interview. What's the, what's the, uh, interview? Yeah. Like you don't have much time. So like, yeah, I mean, there's a lot of similarities between high-ticket sales and tech sales for sure.

Yeah. Let's see, man. All right. Last question I'm going to ask you. There's somebody watching this that's in tech sales. SDR, AE, doesn't really matter. They're making good money, the best money they've ever made, but they kind of have that itch. They're like, I know I could be doing more. I'm not in love with this vehicle. Like it's the safe bet. My parents are proud on paper to my friends. I'm, I'm winning, right? But you know, I, I'm making $80K, I'm making $120K. Like I know I could do more. What would you say to that person about high ticket sales?

I would say you may, some people may agree, some people may not, but I think, I think they may have an edge than most other guys wouldn't have, like, are just coming straight to sales from other avenues. Like, some guys come from, like, I think the guy you interviewed, Aaron, me and Aaron went off in there. You interviewed Aaron, you know, he came. Yeah. Um, the trading offer we're on, he was on like a mining background or where'd he come from? He was working like in the fields.

Like, he's a pipefitter.

Yeah. Like, you have other guys like that breaking into high-ticket sales and he's doing $10,000 to $50,000 a month.

Right.

I think what's worked in my, and, you know, worked in my favor is just I have sales experience, tech backgrounds. Like, I come off as a competent individual. So I would tell anybody like that has tech sales experience, like, more than likely you will have the upper hand on most of the people in the high ticket sales space because they're coming into this space with not so much experience, no closing experience, no cold calling, setting appointments. Like, yeah, toes in the water, you know, don't go all in outright. Just, you know, get a feel for it, build that network. You know, hop on mock calls or just, you know, understand how to vet offers. And then, you know, I think you will eventually, if you just trust the journey, you'll eventually get to a point to where, you know, you'll find a quality offer that's, you know, going to be, you're going to be able to replace your W-2 sooner than later.

Yeah. The one thing I'll say about tech sales is they do have a leg up coming into this. I think that that's one of the more preferable backgrounds. The only thing that you got to switch up is the way that you sell, like the fundamentals, the foundation is still there. You sell differently, but then a lot of tech salespeople, Rightfully so, like they come into this with a little ego and they're like, I'm not doing commission only.

I'm not doing it.

Then don't, don't do it. Like, so it is scary and you do gotta jump if you want it. But yeah, man, if you can, if you can kind of let the ego down a little bit, I even had it coming in. I came from the blue collar, like roofing sales, but you let the ego down, you learn how to one call close and you'd be surprised what you can do, man.

100%. I think, I mean, a lot of offers in the high ticket sales space is B2C. So I mean, obviously working a W-2 job, you're more than likely doing B2B sales, like I have one offer I was on. If my boy Nick is going to watch this interview, he'll laugh. I literally lasted on an offer maybe 2 and a half months. And the sales manager, we're still cool to this day. It's another thing, just being a good dude. But like, he told me like, you can't close on this offer like you're working for Salesforce. It's not going to work. This is a B2C offer. So I'm like, instead of trying to do 2-call closes and like, I'm asking like really high-level questions that like a kid, you know, these are kids that's investing for the first time. He's like, this is a totally different offer. You're probably going to have to like slap them around. And like, this is why I started learning a little bit about MAPQ. But like, yeah, I mean, it scales. At the end of the day, I got more reps and now like the experience I have now, I feel like I can close on any offer, whether it's B2C or B2B. I have that tech sales background. Now I have B2C experience and now the offer I'm working on now, you know, I'm talking to high-level prospects. So like all the skills that I've grabbed from like e-commerce B2C offers, from my tech sales experience, talking to high-level CEOs, business owners, now it's all coming together on this offer to where. I'm talking to a mixture of both like business owners and people that's investing for the first time. Like, so I think all that experience comes all together if you come from a tech sales background, for sure.

That's the sweet spot, man. You said it well. Like, if you're coming from B2B, don't underestimate like high-level B2C sales because the people that can afford $10,000 on a program or service are the people that make buying decisions in B2B sales. You know, it's It's the same people. They just make money and they spend it a little bit easier, you know, than the company would. So anyways, dude, I held you here longer than anticipated, but I appreciate you doing this. Any of you guys watching, if you want to connect with Deven, jump in the community. I'd put his socials down below, but he's kind of low-key like that. Talk to him in the community. And yeah, if you guys are considering this, we got a lot of people in tech sales, a lot of interviews of people still in it, used to be in it. Was in high ticket, went to tech, came back, made $10K in high ticket the first month they came back. That's the guy's story I was telling you about. That's it for this one. I appreciate y'all watching. Deven, appreciate you coming on, man.