How To Sell To Anyone At 19 Years Old - Leo Moore

What's up, y'all? Sales Bro Pod, episode 2. Today, this evening, we've got the young, handsome Leo Moore. Young gun, guy I used to be on a sales team with, TikTok influencer. He's a jack of all trades here. Sharp guy. Leo, thanks for coming on.

Appreciate it, bro. Thanks for the intro. It was, that's probably one of the best I've ever had.

To be honest, that was—

I don't get hyped up that hard too often.

It was totally off the cuff. But yeah, man, I appreciate you coming on. Definitely have a lot of interesting stuff to dive into today. A little bit of us catching up. We haven't been speaking nearly as much as we used to, so hyped to dive in. And I guess the most proper place to start is going back, man, going back in time. Young Leo. High school Leo, I don't know, however far you want to go back, man. How did you, how did you end up on the trajectory that you are on today?

Bro, that's a good question. High school was pretty funny. I was like a— oh man, I, I was always the type of guy, I would like get good grades and stuff. I was like pretty good at sport. We play Australian football here. I'll send you a few photos after, maybe you can chuck them in. But like, yeah, Australian football. So I played that. I was, I was actually trying to go pro. When I was like 16, I was like, I was pretty good. And I was like, I really want to go pro. And then I tore my hamstring 3 times in a row. Have you ever torn your hamstring?

Never, bro. Ever.

Pain. Pain in the ass, bro. Like, couldn't walk. Like, it was so bad. It's literally like getting shot as well. Like, it felt like I got shot in the—

Yeah.

So that sucked. So I tore my hamstring 3 times and I kind of fell out of love with it because I was like, I just kept getting injured. And I eventually got back to playing and stuff, but I literally, quite literally wasn't the same after that. Like in terms of how much I like wanted to play, how even how good I was as well, etc., etc. So I sort of just focused on grades. I was still decent at footy. I still played, but I was like just mentally sort of checked out and then moved more towards sort of just how to make money. And at the time in year 12, that's what we call like Senior senior year, I was just like get good grades, fucking smash out year twelve. So I got a pretty good ATR, which is what we have is like the the final score that you get. And I was gonna I was gonna go into law, but I actually missed. I missed the score that I needed by point three percent. So you need a you need a ninety seven like percent to get. I got ninety six point seven. So I missed it. So I had to go into the course below that and then get good grades and I could go into law after that. So I was like, all right, fine, I'll just do that. It's gonna take like an extra 6 months for me to get my degree or whatever. So I went into an arts degree as any soy boy cuck would do. So I was in my arts degree. First 6 months of uni, fucking hated it. I was like, there's no way I can do another 5 years of this. Not gonna work. Um, so naturally I got into crypto trading very quickly, just a natural progression. Um, I actually had a sales job at the time as well without even knowing that sales was like a thing. Um, and then I basically just dived into like the whole online world from, from crypto. I actually made a decent bag as well, uh, from, from the bull run. And then what even— I don't even know what happened to me. I just sort of found Twitter and then Just kept going down the rabbit hole, down the rabbit hole. You know, I bought, um, I bought Closeify training actually, um, paid a few different coaches. Yeah, went through, um, and I was— I made, I made decent cash pretty quick in terms of like remote, um, and I was sort of lucky that I just never— I never was really under that much pressure to make cash because, because of crypto. Yeah, um. But basically it was like I sort of always wanted to. I was always really like looking to make cash, um, and it was just about what the vessel was. So I was going to be like, first it was going to be like law, then I was like, nah, fuck that. Then it was crypto, then I was like, nah, fuck that. I actually have had an email marketing client before as well. That was like the first thing I ever did online. Yeah, um, but that flopped obviously because I sucked at email marketing. I was— but I was good at sales, so that's when I actually got in sales. Um, and then I sort of moved down the line a bit. I was sort of Neither here nor there. Like, I was a good sales rep. And then, as you know, I sort of, I paid David Jacob for some training, joined Default Kings, and then from there just basically transcended.

Yeah. Yeah. A long chain of events where you look back in hindsight, you're like, yeah, it makes sense. But when you're going through it, you're like, bro, I have no idea what's going on. I wanted to ask you, most of these people, that come to this corner of Twitter, there is like one person in particular out of like a group of 4 people where it's like, oh, that's the first guy that like put me onto this side of Twitter, or that's whose content I saw. Who is that person for you?

There was probably a couple. So I, I have Cardinal Mason TikToks bookmarked from like ages ago, and I didn't know who he was, and I only realized who he was When I like got to Twitter, yeah. I've also got Grant TikToks saved. Like I've got like bookmarked and like I used to follow him and stuff. Didn't even know who he was. And then I met him and I was like, oh, what the fuck? Like that's Grant. Like I was like, oh my god, your mind hacks. Like without even realizing it. But in terms of who brought me to Twitter, it was honestly probably Tate. Like straight up. Okay. You know, I was following him, like Dylan Madden. But then when I was following Cold Email Wizard, that's probably the one who like. Really like showed me like the ropes. Yeah. Because I was just like floating around. And then I joined Cody Melwyzid's low ticket group after getting DQ'd by Jay on a Client Ascension call. And Jay told me to get into sales.

Yeah.

And that's when I was like, oh my God, like remote sales, what the fuck's that? And then I got into it after that.

So this actually like lining up some of these events, like this was not that long ago, was it?

No, I— when I first joined Twitter, like money Twitter, that was when I started posting like straight away. Yeah, this was like— I probably had that call with Jay for Client Ascension like March last year.

Mm-hmm.

That was when I sort of started trying to shift remote. Yeah, joined Internet Money in like June or July, whenever it dropped at the start of that. And that's when I was like, okay, I can do the online thing. Yeah.

Yeah, that's about when I, so I came in with this dude, I think a lot of guys talk about him, like Nate Schmidt, dropshipping dude, like 2018 or so. And I like, I got away from it 'cause I was going to college and I was like, fuck dude, I gotta focus on this. I'm almost done.

Soy.

Yeah, yeah. And then I like, I got the job outta college and I was like, dude, this, it didn't suck, but I was like, is this it? You know? And then I came back like naturally, 'cause I had, I had continued following some of these guys like Nate and some of the other big guys in the space throughout this whole time. And I just, in the back of my mind, I was like, bro, I gotta make this work. Like, I wanna make it work. And then February of last year is when I came back and like started posting day one. And I always thought of, I don't know why, bro. Like, I always thought that Twitter was like, just gonna propel me in whatever I was doing if I would show up and like brand myself as that person. And it fucking did. So that's super interesting. Yeah, I don't know what— like when I knew I wanted to get into remote sales because I had that revelation off or after almost falling off a roof a couple of times. I don't know why, dude. I was just like, dude, I got to start posting on Twitter. And when I build this brand, like people will come to me with sales jobs and which Dude, that's what happened. That's what happened. So, um, you, you mentioned that you briefly went down the whole, like you said, Tate and, and that side of things brought you here. Was that, uh, was that last year or was that before? Or like, how did that line up with all of it?

That was a, that was like 2022. So yeah, last year. But, um, but yeah, it's, it's very interesting how intuitive it is. It's like you just like, you just sort of like behave really intuitively and you're like, yeah, I'm just gonna like start posting because this makes sense to me. Like this all, yeah, like all of these things that are going on like make a lot of sense. Yeah, because I was the same. I actually got my first remote gig through an inbound lead on Twitter.

Yeah.

So I've, I've never done any type of like DM outreach or any, any like the method, the methods that you, um, went through because I'd just gone from like more like corporate sales into Twitter and I was just posting like what I knew about sales.

Yeah.

And then got a gig through that. And honestly, I think that's an underrated method.

It's just like building a brand.

Yeah, just hunt for inbound.

Right. It's nuts. Like if somebody were to come to me tomorrow and be like, hey, I'll pay you X amount of money for everything that you've like worked on in the past year. I do. It's hard to put like a dollar amount on that because the compounding, bro. Like, I've— end of 2022, I was reflecting back on the year and I was like, I could have never predicted that I had been here. And I was actually talking to, you know, Justin Schmidt. I was talking to him today. He's like, bro, end of 2023 is going to be the same thing. Like, you're gonna look back and be like— even next month, bro, March 2023, I'm gonna look back at February 13th. I'm gonna be like Like, how did all that happen? You know?

Yeah, that's a huge thing in our space as well. I look back on every 3 months and I'm like, oh my God. Yeah, I was fucking stupid. Like, I knew nothing. Even like just what you said, like every couple of months.

Yeah. Yeah, I think. And one thing I wanted to like definitely lean into here is like, you're obviously— I'm not gonna say you're younger than everyone because you're not. Like, there's a lot of young dudes on this side of things, but I would say like Of the younger crowd, like you're maybe, I guess both online money and sales. Like I feel like you've kind of, you know, you're doing pretty well, at least for being like sub-1 year still. Um, so I really want to like dive into topics that would help a young crowd who's trying to get into sales, who's trying to maybe start the brand. Um, and yes, this is a sales podcast. I want to talk about sales, but I definitely want to talk about some other stuff too. So going into sales, bro, like you said, you mentioned you had the sales job, but you didn't really even realize it. And what exactly were you selling or what were you doing there?

It was like energy packages for houses, like solar, kind of like solar was an upsell, but it would just be like basic energy packages. Yeah.

Yeah. Is this door to door?

Nah, just that was inbound actually. So that would just call call the office and it would just like go through to me and I'll just pick up the phone, ask them some questions and just sell them.

Cool. And then you like, was there a point where you realized like, dude, I'm doing this thing that's more valuable than what I'm getting paid for? Like how did you progress into like remote sales from—

I knew I was good. I knew I was good because the first call I ever took, like the manager was on the phone with me, like they were listening into it. And then like literally straight after, they're like, oh fuck, like you're good. They're like, you're good. And I was like, the fuck are you even talking about? Because I'd just gone from like a retail job. I was working at like a sports store, and then I was at that sales job, and I was like, I wasn't even like trying to be good at my job. I was just like existing. Um, so then when it's— when it sort of popped up again, um, in terms of the online space, I was like, fuck it, I can do this. Like I had— I sort of had that natural sort of high self-esteem that sort of gave me the, gave me the cojones to, to pursue it.

Um, yeah.

And the transition was like, I think I was just lucky, to be honest, because with guys like Cold Email Wizard, just, he just like shouts at the screen telling you to take action, and I'm like, okay, like I should probably do that. Um, and then the 2, 2 main mentors I would have had would be David Jacob and, um, and Grant Retirement keys. Like both of them have just been like, I've just been lucky to have like landed on them instead of some other you know people that are into the sales space that you know yeah might have heard about because they've just been very it's just been a good fit for me to to just be exposed to that type of energy and and to have them direct me was just like that was literally like just made everything ten times easier just to be able to like. channel my own, like, because I'm— I've also got like a modicum of talent. But then being able to channel that with other people's help was like the biggest thing.

Yeah, those 2 dudes, man, are like— those are some genuine, like, sharp, just like good dudes to have in your corner. 100%. Cool, man. So then we get You know, you start buying programs, you start like consuming. When did you land your first remote sales job? Or like whether you're appointment setting, closing, whatever you start, like what month was that?

That might have been July. I can't remember if I joined Twitter in July or June or July, but I think it was in August was my first gig. Because what I did was, this is some source as well. I was offering free consult calls to agency owners to review their sales process. So I did that, got on a call with a guy twice and I was just reviewing all this shit. I was like, this good, this good, this sucks, do this instead, that sort of stuff. And then he actually gave me a referral from his mate. So, That's like the biggest life hack there ever is. Just give someone free shit. And then it was like a law of reciprocity thing.

Yeah.

He was like, yeah, I was like, help you out. I was like, cool, that works.

I'm curious to know the dynamic of like, I'm the, like I'm a 19, 19 or 20, how old are you?

I turned 20 2 weeks ago.

Okay. So like at the time you were 19 and you're like, I know you run an agency that's probably kind of successful. Like, let me offer a free audit. Like, and by the way, I've never done this before. Like, how did you getting on those first few calls? Like, how did you provide value? Like, were you watching YouTube videos or like, what did you really do there to ultimately land the gig?

Yeah, well, it's interesting because I was, I remember talking to Grant about this. He was like, how the fuck did you get so many gigs? Because I ended up getting like 3 or 4 offers to sell for in the next couple of weeks as well. And I was just like, it's just this. You just have to go the source option. Like you just have to source it. You have to source on their face and just fucking just be like boom boom boom boom boom boom. Yep, you just showed me that call. Here's a whole page of notes of everything you did wrong, and I guarantee you if you do all these things, then you're going to close better. Yeah, and I was just like fucking max conviction, max like real. Just like I don't know. I feel like that's it's a it's it's a point of difference I've been talking a lot about to young guys because even when they're on calls, it's like. I honestly attribute it to like back when I was playing sport, like obviously I was pretty good, so I had a lot of conviction in myself from that. But then when that got taken away from being injured all the time, I sort of had to refine that like just like on an unconditional level of like, oh, like I can just figure anything out. Like, I can pretty much just do, do like whatever the fuck I want. Um, and that carried over into sales really well.

Yeah.

And it's sort of like just doubling down on that over and over. with stuff that you can do in your life, like get more jacked, make more money, all this stuff. I was like, I was pretty much going into all these calls with the, with the idea that I can pretty much win any game that I really want to win. And I was like, I'm— no expectation. I was like, I'm just going to do it.

I think that paired with just like a brain that works at a decent level, it's like perfect recipe for a sales guy. And then this is, this is what I've like, I posted on Twitter and when I like tagged you back a while back, it's like, that's what I see that most of these young guys are missing is like, you have to be confident when you're not confident. Like you just have to show up. Worst case scenario, it doesn't work. But if you don't, if you don't give it your all, like it's not gonna work. So like, especially starting out, and I think that we'll call it a method. I think that method is like, Super interesting. So you were like positioning yourself as a consultant. Were you like doing cold email or like cold DMs or what?

No, I was just talking to people. Like very, very like sales guy type of thing to say. I was just like, it's very like boomer sales. Like I just have conversations. Like I would just, I would literally just be like talking to people in DMs. Different guys like becoming mates with different people. Joining different groups as well. Like I was in a lot of those low ticket groups like Cashflow Syndicate and shit. And just like trying to make friends through that. Yeah, not necessarily with the plan of making friends, but I was just like existing and like talking about stuff I wanted to talk about, which was like sales and business because it's kind of— it also leans on that a lot where the conversations that I would want to be having on a day-to-day would be about that anyway. So if someone wanted to talk about it, I'd be like, fuck yeah, let's do it.

Yeah. Would you say that's like, I guess the whole— the word kind of sucks, but like networking and just meeting people, knowing people. Is that like the highest ROI thing you've done since like coming into the space, or is there something else?

That's a really good question because, as does everyone, like the whole network or like, come on, that's it's so it's so age. But it's probably close. It's probably close to that. It's probably really close. Highest ROI thing I've done would probably just be like. I don't know, because like consuming a lot of different information from different sources and then like putting it into a melting pot and then deciding like what you want to do with all that information is probably like probably up there as well. But it's a really good question. I'd have to, I'd honestly have to think about what that would be.

Highest ROI. Yeah, I definitely think it's up there on my list, but you just brought up a really good point, bro. Like I know you're an info product appreciator.

Absolutely.

When do you draw the line on like, okay, enough consuming, time to like do shit?

Yeah, that's another good question. I think it's probably just like, just get like one or two main people that you really like, you take their shit as like doctrine almost, or like you take their shit quite literally and then you just do all that and then see what happens. And then like, I think the line becomes where you're not applying the shit that you're learning.

Mm-hmm.

So like, if you're going in and like you've just got a, like you're just stacking information, I think that's obviously a problem. But at the same time, there's sort of different phases as well. So you might need someone to get you from 0 to 1 and then someone to take you from 1, like 1 to 2 or 1 to 3. 'Cause that's kind of the route that I went. I went, first thing I was like, I'm gonna talk to Grant. Grant took me through a lot of like a lot of the basics, like a lot of just like how to operate sales calls, like how like the fucking foundation of sales calls should go like properly. Because before, as I said, I was kind of like just fucking just trying to source it and just relied a lot on just natural ability. Um, so he taught me a lot of like the foundations that I needed. Uh, and then after that I kind of got to a point where I was like, ah, fuck, I need to get a bit better here. Like I need to just like get a bit of an extra push. And that's when I went to David to just sort of sharpen the axe a bit more. So I think it's just being really intentional about the problems that you actually have, finding someone that can help you solve that specific problem, and then going from there. Because that, that was Grant at the start, and then that was David for me, where I was like, I was a good sales rep, but I wasn't by any means like great. Like, I, yeah, I felt I was kind of looking for, for more direction. And that's what I did to David.

And he kind of like Yeah, I, I used to, uh, right, used to, but like just from being on teams, um, like I obviously we worked with David together. Great, great guy. Like super sharp. Um, but I just accumulated like all of the sales trainings from like the different teams, right? Like the Jordan Belfort, the Cole Gordon, the Jeremy Miner. And like I, I would study the shit outta those as well as like YouTube. But I got to the point, and I had been in sales like a couple years prior to this, but I got to the point where I was like, I feel like it's almost diminishing returns if you're not in the right vehicle. So this is another like point that I try to like, I gotta be careful when I teach like younger guys this, but how do you, if at all, and I know like you can always get better at sales.

Yeah.

But there becomes a point in time where it's like, dude, you've got, you've now, I think this is a Hormozi thing. It's like you now have the level 8 skillset and you're in the level 4 vehicle. Like how have you found yourself like managing like, okay, now I'm a little info heavy. Now I need to like find a better opportunity, I guess. Can you, can you dive into that a bit?

Yeah, that's a really fucking important line of like of thought and questioning that, that everyone needs to be doing for themselves. 'Cause it's kind of a limiting belief that it takes a long time to make money in sales, but at the same time it also does. So it's a really fine line between like, you can quit too early, blame the leads, blame the offer, or there's also a time where that's literally the case. And I think figuring that out is just, it's a pretty intuitive thing and you just have to be really honest with yourself.

Yeah.

Because me personally, I'm always a guy where like, just put it on yourself. Like, make it your fault for everything. Like, if you're not closing, figure out why you're not closing based on what you're doing. And then if you fix everything up and there's sort of some type of correlation between you and everyone else, there does come a point where, like, you need to just make it easy for yourself.

Yeah.

Because you can make it really hard for yourself. And I definitely did that as well. But I was always of the opinion that I would, like, I'd rather make it hard for myself at this stage, be patient until I'm like certain, like I'm fucking guaranteed certain that it's, you know, that it's the vehicle.

Yeah.

And I'm like, okay, it's the vehicle. 'Cause I just wanted to prove it to myself.

Yeah. I think it's a lot different too. 'Cause in this remote sales suite or remote sales space, like so many of these teams are small, man. Like there's literally one closer, maybe founder. Sometimes like good coaching offer, you'll hop on, there's like 5 closers, whatever. Now if you're, if you're on a sales team and there's like 5, 10 closers and you are just like month after month closing 15% less than everyone else, then yeah, dude, there's probably a problem with your skillset. If you don't fix it, you're not gonna be there much longer. But like when you're navigating, maybe you like know someone who runs an agency and you're like taking his sales calls. It's really hard to, to gauge like—

Yeah.

Is this right? Am I doing bad? Are they doing like the leads not good? And I did. I I hate to be the sales guy that's like, bro, the leads suck. But sometimes the leads suck, right?

They do.

Yeah. So that's dude. That's one thing that I'm glad you dove into it. Like I really hit on because dude, everyone everyone thinks, especially when you're new, they think like, bro, I just have to get better. I just have to get better. And yeah, you do. But like, if you're if you're Cole Gordon level in like a freaking five K a month opportunity, like you're just you're just Cole Gordon making five K, bro. Like that's it.

Yeah, yeah. So and and I think the thing is because you you just have to know like there's people that are worse than you that are gonna make more money because they're in a better vehicle. So even if you take it from that point of view where you're like. Fuck, if I can find a better vehicle, I'm just gonna take like, just take the path of least resistance. Because there's like, David Mendez talks about this as well. It's like there's no, there's no honor in struggling for ages before you make money. Like there's no merit in just banging your head against the wall on a shit offer just cause. Like there's huge merit in being the guy that landed in a good vehicle. They might, they might be 70% as good as you, but they're still making more. Like there's a lot of merit in that.

Yeah.

In like almost overachieving rather than underachieving. That's kind of where I was coming from. Like you wanna overachieve, like you wanna make more money than maybe what you should, if it's in a benign way, obviously. Don't, there's a lot of nuance there, but.

So how do you, being that like your first few gigs, they were kind of just through you meeting people, like placing yourself in front of opportunity. How did you determine, obviously you're, you're like, you've been through a few, you've had to call it quits on some, maybe you leaned into others. What were some of the things that like led you to believe that it was time to step away or look into something else?

It's, it's an interesting one. I was kind of always looking. Like I was always very like trying to be tapped in like all the time because I knew the stuff that I was on was going to cap out at X a month or XYZ per month. And I knew there were opportunities that existed in sales, obviously, like up to some pretty high numbers. So I was like, I'm just going to, you know, I'm just going to, you know, I wasn't actively doing outreach or anything, but if something popped up through my network where someone was like, hey, this guy needs a closer, I'd be like, yeah, I'll jump on a call with him. Yeah. See what's happening. And then if that vehicle was going to be better and I was confident in that, I would leave the one before. Yeah, I think I wouldn't, I wouldn't be taking leaps of faith on and off. I was kind of just like, at the very minimum, if it's a shit offer, I'm going to get reps. Yeah, I can still be on the lookout and do it that way.

So many of these people, man, they have like a sense of loyalty to their offer for no reason. It's like, bro, you've been working here for 3 months, you haven't gotten paid a single dollar, but you're like, You're like afraid to look for something else, or you're like afraid to step away, or it's like, what do you, what do you owe these people? Like nothing, dude. So I, I've talked to a few people, uh, in positions like that. Like they're maybe cold calling or, yeah, mostly cold calling appointment setting. And it's like maybe they're like 17, 18, they're young and they're like, yeah, exactly. Oh, they're kind of just grateful for the opportunity.

But I think once you once you get established and you know like yeah dude I am capable of this stuff you become a lot more like risk I don't know just like being able to take more risk and yeah it's kind of a frame thing as well because if like if you got a bit of money in the bank and you got a bit of like and you got experience and you know like if you really needed to like you could just fucking post on Twitter and and. Get on the offer or make some money somehow. Like, there's a lot that comes with that.

Yeah, dude, that's, that's another big thing about Twitter. Like, a few months back I had posted that I was like available for something, and dude, overwhelming amount of responses. So another plus to, to growing the personal brand. Um, it's like, if you ever know somebody that needs leads or you need a job or whatever and you have like 1,000, 2,000 followers, like, bro, it'll get in front of the people that it needs to be in front of.

Yeah, that's huge actually. That's a really good point. I haven't even— because before you posted that, I didn't even think about like asking for that. But yeah, I did see you got really good responses on that.

Yeah, I was just curious. I'm trying to think. The teams? No, I'm not, I'm not currently on. I never accepted anything off of that. But yeah, like if I was truly down and out, like, yeah, I could have, I could have hopped on something. So I guess this, this would be an interesting topic to talk on is now that you've kind of, you've been on a couple offers, sold, sold a little bit different niches, like When you're looking for a new offer, like a new team to join, like what are some things that you're really looking for to know that it's like worth your time?

That's a really good question. I think things I'm asking would be like OTE, on-track earnings, call flow, what's the current close rate, what's the best close I make, what's the worst close I make. How long have you been in business? Like, obviously, like revenue numbers, that sort of thing. Is there like a sales manager in place? Obviously, that's important. Like, what's the sales meetings schedule look like? What's like the whole infrastructure around like the day-to-day, that sort of thing? Like, do you guys have a locked-in sales process? What does the prospect see before the call? What's the CRM look like? Like all these things, like there's a lot that goes into it. It especially like, it's what I learned a lot on one of my offers actually, because I had to build like the whole sales process and it was very formative for me. But at the same time, I'd be like, yeah, I should be getting paid for something like that. Like you should be getting paid pretty handsomely for building out like the whole thing.

Yeah.

But I just had to do it because I wanted more calls.

Right. I guess I want to phrase it like, phrase it like this to see which one is like truly the most important to you. But if you Let's say you were, you were down and out, bro. You're like, bro, I need a gig. I need calls on my calendar tomorrow. And you had an interview or yeah, let's say you had an interview and there was like one metric that you could learn about this sales team and then you had to make your decision based off of that. Like, is there any, any particular one that you would lean into? Because I have one in my mind. But I'm curious if, if there's anything that you would base that off of.

I would say OTE. That's the easiest one. Like, what's, what's like, what am I meant to make? Like, what's like, what's the standard amount that you're gonna be making on an offer?

Yeah.

Because if that's on point, then you assume the other stuff's on point.

Yeah.

I'm interested. What would you say?

The only issue I have with the OTE is because like, there's so many people out here hiring for shit that hasn't been done yet. And so they'll be like, OTE $10K. But they've never done it. And especially dude, in like the Facebook groups and like anywhere that opportunities are posted, my biggest thing would be like, if they have sales, sales reps, like I need to know what your sales reps made in like the last month, 3 months, 6 months. And if they don't, I need to know like company revenue of the last month, 3 months, 6 months. Yeah. And based on that, like I can kind of like reverse engineer, okay, as long as I'm decent. And I plug into their existing call flow that's bringing them $100K a month, then I will make X. And so that's, that's like, I always, I always run through like a list of like green and red flags with new guys. And that's one that I always hammer on, bro. It's like, get the numbers. Like, don't, don't ever join unless this is your first one, but don't ever join like a sales team or a sales position where it's like, it's never been done. Only join when it Only join a team where it is currently being done. That's like my big thing.

So that's a way better version of OTA. That's just, yeah, it's just a better version.

Yeah. And do like, like you can, you can be the first rep that they ever hire and like, just, I'm not gonna say get lucky, but like the stars could align and you could get paid. Like, I'm not saying it's not gonna happen, but specifically for high ticket sales, man, there's too many people that like, fluff up numbers just to get some eyes on their opportunity.

So, because it is actually, it's a pretty big pain point for a lot of founders if they're on too many calls and they're trying to hire a closer and they're fucking, everyone's churning and that sort of thing because it does completely fuck up the business. But yeah, no, I agree. Like, that's a really good point there. Yeah.

I was gonna ask you too, did you ever appoint, like appointment set before you close or you just went straight to closing?

No, I just went straight to closing, which was honestly probably not smart because I learned how to appointment set as well, just like cold calling.

Yeah.

Like after, like I learned that just from like doing it a bit, which was weird because that, as I said, the energy packages I was selling, that was inbound. So I was just sort of, I ended up just raw dogging some cold calls one time and I was just like just trying to figure out how to do it.

Yeah.

I feel like I'm pretty good at it. Like, I'm okay at it. It's much easier, like, learning how to do it after you've closed, I think.

That's kind of a similar background that I came from. Like, I was working traditional sales job, like in-home services type stuff, and it was primarily inbound. But then I came into this space with like a little bit of an ego. I was like, dude, I know how to sell. Like, I'm gonna close. And like, I landed a good closing role to start out, but then I went back and I ended up Setting, I felt like there was like a core piece that was like missing from the equation. 'Cause like the transition too, dude, I don't know if it was the same for you, but it was brutal, dude. Going from like traditional in-home sales or like in-person sales office type job to like gunslinging high-ticket closer, 30 minutes, gimme your card details. Like, yeah. What did you, did you experience that too? Like, just like almost like a shock when you started taking your first calls?

That was a little bit like, definitely nervous for the first couple calls. I was huge on like researching though. Like I was going hard on like Hormozi trainings and that sort of stuff. So I was like, I kind of, I feel like I figured out a decent way to pivot 'cause the stuff I took from the initial sales job was like tonality, like, question asking this stuff. And then I was like, if I can just plug and play like Hormozi stuff, do a lot of mock calls beforehand as well. And it was lucky for me as well because the offer I was closing for was just the founder and me.

Yeah.

So it was just him. So I was like, if I, I was like, okay, like if I, let's say worst case scenario, absolutely fuck this up, then it's like kind of pressure off because he wasn't really like, the tracking was like, it was a shit offer to sell for. Yeah, the track— there's no tracking, there's no anything. So I was like, all right, I'm just going to try and close. Um, and I think I got a deposit close like within the first couple calls, so I got a bit of confidence out of that. But I definitely know what you mean, like it's definitely different. Like even like everything's different to remote closing because it's just a different dynamic. Everything that happens before the call, if it comes through, you know, social media, if it comes through cold email, like there's so much nuance that it definitely makes it difficult.

Yeah. Yeah. There's so much nuance, man. That's why it's so easy to like hop in this space and get burnt if you don't know what you're doing. So easy.

Yeah.

So easy, dude. Um, I wanted to ask you this, kind of like switching topics here, but as far as like you and your selling style goes, obviously you have learned from a lot of different people. You've probably taken stuff that you like from all of them, similar to most of us here. What is, what are a few of like the key pieces of your game that you feel work really well for you, like in sales calls?

That's a good question. I think there'd probably be a couple of things. So after I worked with David, I went really hard on mirroring like all the time. Like I was always like showing understanding like the whole time. I'd be like, Almost literally everything they say, I'll be like, I just have to say it back to me so I like realize what's going on. Like I just fucking entrench it, like fucking glue it to my brain. Yeah. So I'm very, very tapped in like the whole call because my problem before that was like inconsistency probably where, you know, I would have a fucking hot streak and then I would probably chill out for a week or so and be like, I'll just get too complacent. So like I would just have to mirror really hard. Another thing was probably like being on the same team as the prospect. It's like obviously same side of the table type shit where you don't lose frame and it's like, okay, like it's more of like a game plan to success than fucking buy. You know what I mean? That was probably through a mix of David and Grant as well.

Like buy or die type shit.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because obviously like everyone, Like just being honest, everyone, everyone loves Belfort. Like everyone, everyone does. If you say you don't, like you're, you're trying to like virtue signal. Like it's a cool movie, bro. Just relax. It's a cool movie.

Yeah.

Everyone loves it.

Yeah. So what do you, so you just mentioned like mirroring really helped you like internalize this and then being on, being on the same team. What do you think Hold on, dude. I'm sorry. I'm kind of blanking. Long, long day. Wait, is it? Yeah, yeah. Long day. Yeah, you're in Australia. So what is it like nine, ten a.m.?

Twelve.

Okay. Yeah. Yeah, dude. Rip sales calls all day long. So I'm trying to think of like how to piece this together. So going into like Or going from the stuff that you feel are like your key pieces of your game, like what is some stuff that you're currently working on? Like what's something where you maybe recently reviewed a call and you're like, dude, why did I do that? Or, you know, somewhere where you have room to improve?

Yeah, that's a good question. My most recent fuck up that I thought was like, like I was pissed at myself for was definitely like allowing the prospect to gather information and me responding to the actual words they said instead of responding to the frame. So like if they say something, it's like you're not taking that as like what they said. It's like, what do they like mean?

Yeah.

Because obviously like you do that most of the time and you get it right. But if you just slip out of like focus, You mess it up, you lose a deal. So it's like there's, you know, X amount of money that you're never getting back. Good job, dickhead. So that would be it. It's probably more like focus-based and like, and just being really concentrated all the time, which is tough and you sort of have to deal with it. It's like an ongoing thing, but it's sort of a reps problem, I would say.

I guess this is a good and like kind of funny question to Segue into, but like, we've definitely, we've both reviewed each other's calls in like a group setting.

Yeah.

The fun experience getting torn apart by different parties and all that. You being like a younger dude, like sometimes I feel like I have an issue where like, I feel like I'm compared to the person I'm speaking to, like internally, I feel like, why would this person Trust me, like I'm a younger dude. They're the one who's been doing this for 20 years. And I think this is just a natural sales guy thing. How do you like really control frame being that you are like a younger dude, especially, I know that the team we were on together, like sometimes we would hop on with guys who were like, you know, multi-six-figure a year earners, just like successful types.

Yeah.

Maybe some that are more so like authority-driven, all that kind of stuff. So how do you establish Chad frame as like a young dude and how do you actually get it to work for you?

Yeah, that's a great question. And it stems back to a couple things. So I definitely dealt with this like a bit, but I think there's a, yeah, so there's a couple things. So number one, I would just really try and focus on the fact that they have come to a call because they have X problem that you are meant to be an expert in. So if there's, if you're not an expert in that, in that problem, then you need to sort of become an expert. And then especially like when, if they say you're young, 'cause obviously like if I shave, like I'm a fucking like baby-faced looking dude. So if they say I look young, I'll be like, yeah dude, like I'm really young. Like how old do you think I am? They'll be like, maybe 22. I'll be like, I'm 19 and I'll fix this problem.

I think I remember— Why do you have this problem if you're 50?

Yeah, I think I remember you doing that. Yeah, and you, you almost like— because I would always go like, you inflate the problem, like make it bigger, because it would be the same thing. Like, I would honestly do it with chicks as well. If they say like, how young are you? Like, I'm young as— like, I'm younger than you've ever seen. They'd be like— because then that— because then they almost start getting, getting weirded out by themselves for like being there, you know what I mean? So it's like you, you just flip it, um, and by like inflating it.

Yeah.

Which is, you know, it's a funny way of going about it. The other thing I would say is really, really just being not needy. So if you need to have a certain amount of cash in your bank to feel like you don't need more, that was honestly the biggest thing for me. Because if I didn't have enough, like if I had like, if I'd just spent a couple grand on something and my bank was looking low, that was honestly when I would be worse at closing.

Yeah.

Then like if I had a certain amount, like I don't hear it talked about that much, but Bro, if you have, if you have the runway, a fat cushion in your bank, you're not gonna like, you're not gonna get commission breath. You just— Yeah.

Yeah, dude. That's, I think everything that when I transitioned last year, I had, I had like quote unquote the runway to where my options were like, I'm either gonna buy a house or I'm gonna try to make this shit work. And I knew if I bought a house that my runway would be so much shorter. And so I knew like if, if there was ever a time, no kids, like apartment, I don't, I don't really have much responsibility other than myself. Um, it's like, it's now, bro. And so, yeah, saving your money, like don't being, or like not being an idiot so that you can fuck up like 10 times over and still make it and not have to go back to like the job or like, like the part-time, like when I say job, like not have to go back to like whatever you were doing before. That sucks. That made you want to get out in the first place.

Yeah. Um, dude, that's like the— that's the driver of everything I do almost, especially at the start. Yeah, because I was like, what do I have to do to not go to uni and fucking work? Like, work a normal job? Like, what? Like, what do I have to do? Like, just tell me. Someone just fucking tell me. And I was like, I'll just do it. So yeah, that's why I have— that's why I started Twitter. That's why I did everything.

I feel like you, like, you were gonna go into law, so you definitely had like some high expectations as far as like earning goes. So like, yeah, going off of that, if this shit didn't work, like, I mean, you probably have a little bit more drive going into it because you don't just go into law like by jerking around, like not doing shit. But yeah, like my, my option was like, dude, I studied construction science and management. I knew I wasn't gonna cash out by being a freaking project manager for like a, a home building company. I make like $60K a year, but work like 80 80 hours a week. It's fucking rough. I know guys that do that and I saw that and that's what really pushed me to like get out. So we have at about 45 minutes here. We did have some viewer requests, so to speak. And I'm second, this is my second time being a podcast host. So I guess we'll just like, we'll kind of flow through these. We'll start with the serious ones first and then we'll get into the The not so serious ones. Yeah, David. And there's, there's another one that's funny, but this guy Anthony, Anthony Cha is asking probing questions to open up a prospect. So you get like hard-ass dude doesn't wanna tell you anything, just wants the price and the service. What are you doing to, to make this an effective call?

Is that like a frame control thing? Is that a, like a report thing or is that like the literal questions that you want to ask to get them to open up? Because they're probably the main 3 things that would go into that.

Yeah. You just said probing questions to open up a prospect, no question mark.

So probing questions. Yeah. I mean, if I'm going to like just take a random shot at that just broadly, because obviously he's not here to like explain it. Yeah. I would say just a really pointed question that relies on offer knowledge and prospect knowledge about what they're probably facing. So you might have heard if you ask about a specific thing that they're probably going to have a problem with based on them being on the call with you. So for example, if you offer fitness and you ask them about confidence or chicks or looking in the mirror, you might hit on the thing that they're real— that's like their real problem. Like the driver of the sale. So if you can hit one of them and you'd be like, does that resonate with you? Like which one of these resonates with you? You said at the start, like out of the top 3. And they say, ah, fuck, like I'm really struggling looking in the mirror. And you'd be like, okay, cool. What do you mean by that? And then just like fucking follow the trail and just make them really explain. Like would you say that impacts like how well you're able to look after your kids? And then they'd be like, yeah, guys, like I have no energy. And this is actually one that I never pulled out on the fitness offer I sold for, but I was priming myself to say, on a scale of 1 to 10, how much do you think your kids respect you? Because that would, if you've really got the sack to say it, you can really say it, especially B2C. If you have the frame that hard, which is why I sort of said it, it relies on you having a fucking heavy frame. Yeah.

Yeah.

Like you cannot be like, you, you have to be like jumping on that call, swinging your dick around, being like, yeah. You know what I mean? Yeah.

I think selling B2C fitness is probably like, teaches you how to do a fucking discovery cuz they're not gonna buy on a financial ROI.

Yep.

These people are used to not taking action. That's why they fucking are where they are. And so if you don't have a discovery that literally like kind of hurts them when they leave the call, like You're just making it way harder. And I think, I don't know if you view it the same, but like the experience that we had working within fitness sales is like, bro, you, you gotta have like, like you said, a little bit of a sack on you to like really drive action with some of these people.

Definitely. And that's the other thing, if they're trying to be like, if they're trying to frame you and stuff, you just be like, so you don't Want your kids to respect you more, have more in it. Like you have to like you so you like go for the no on whatever problem it might be, and that like it taught me a lot definitely because you're 100% right. Like you have like every time you have a good call and it's a good like you make the sale and you're like fuck yeah that was that was fire. It's always like they reveal something that they probably shouldn't reveal to a stranger.

Yeah, every time bro. And I remember you used this line. I think maybe we were going through one of your calls. But I figured like the young dudes could really take from this. And you, you positioned, you took like the son frame and this guy obviously is a father. He's trying to change for X reason and Y reason. And then you like really took the son frame and basically saying like, talking like, I don't know, making, making him think as if like Not making him think you were his son, but like bringing that to the surface. It's like I can't remember exactly how you do it, but instead of leveraging like the expert frame where you were like, "Bro, I know everything," and like you need to listen to me and all that, you just leverage like this pain point that he had revealed to you, and it like played into your age as well because obviously this dude is like forty, fifty, however old he was, and he just like cranked the fire. out of that pain point. So like young guys listening to this, if you can ever, if you're ever selling like B2C biz op or even fitness or anything, and these people like mention they have a family, at least for me, bro, like if they mentioned they had a family, I knew, or family or wife or kids, I knew that my chance of closing went up like 15% just by them having that. I don't know if you experienced that as well. But like in B2C, bro, like especially with no financial ROI, like you have to dig on those pain points. Um, yeah. Do you remember that, that like recording or that?

I do.

Can you elaborate on like your, your thought process there?

I think it was mainly that I'd, I'd tried implication questions on him and he wasn't going as deep as I wanted him to go. So what I basically did was I was like, I was basically, it's kind of like not recommended, but like I was telling him the implication, but using like a story as like the veneer, kind of like, it's honestly, it's kind of like how like Shakespeare or any author will like, they'll tell a story, but they're trying to fucking drive home some like truth. Like they're trying to like have the message in the story. And I kind of, I honestly made up the fucking story as well. I was just going off the dome. That's not real. So I was just telling him a story about like, yeah, man, I mean, it actually honestly reminds me a lot of my dad who had fucking gone through like, yeah, like he got fat, he's fucking, you know, fucking lost his job, wife left him. Like it was kind of based on him being in like the exact same position as you. So like, I don't wanna say that that's gonna happen to you, but do you think that's a possibility?

And he was like, oh fuck, that's a possibility.

I was like, yeah, dude. Like his kids fucking hate him. Like basically all the worst possible shit. And I was just at that point in the call, I was just throwing shit at the wall to see what Yeah. Sticked.

Yeah, dude. I remember I saw that and I was like, man, this is some fucking next level shit right here. And I tried to implement it on my own. I never really had like outstanding results with it. But yeah, I was like, that's, that's one thing that I saw and I was like, all right, this dude Leo, he's not half bad. But anyways, we got, we got Ethan here. He literally just said like tonality, bro. Tell it, give us the tonality sauce. What do you do besides being Australian?

That's a really good question. I know everyone that asks me about it, I'm kind of like, I don't, it's, it's, it's kind of a natural thing, but I think where it comes from is it's like conviction that's not related to sales. It's it's it's not it's honestly not related to sales. It's more just genuinely just thinking that you're hot shit. No, like in any like arena, which is kind of like it's a very personal thing that you have to come to as like a young guy because obviously like the fucking layer of the world everyone's kind of soy.

Yeah.

And it's like it's just a personal thing. Like do you need to go get more jacked? Do you need to go and figure out how to pull chicks or any of that stuff or just basically bring your competence up to a level where it's like, objectively, I know I can do a lot of shit and do a lot of shit well. So that's the conviction side. And then there's also the genuine curiosity as well because my conviction would drop if I didn't really want to know about a prospect. It was never like—

Yeah.

Trying to fabricate it or anything. It was like, genuinely just upticking when you want to know something or, or that sort of thing. I also watch a lot of Belfort as well. Like, I watched his straight line training, um, and I turned it up too much. Sounded super dowsy. And then you sort of draw it back in, but it's probably easier to draw it back in than it is to, yeah, to turn it up.

Yeah, dude, I think that's, that's a really good point to hit on, especially for like the younger audience, is like It's better, like, just like when you're like trying to get ripped, right? It's better to bulk and then cut. Now, like, can you do it just like super slow, build that lean muscle up? Like, yeah, you can. You'll get the same result. It's just gonna take like 3 times longer.

Yeah.

So I think it's really good to just like, bro, binge, binge like the sales content, but then actually go practice and then be quick to determine like, What works for you and your specific style. Um, which I think I've consumed a lot of sales training and you have too. And so both of us, we were talking about earlier, like just taking the stuff that really resonates with you, running with it, ditching the other stuff. Uh, or maybe it just stays in the back of your mind, maybe a little hat trick here and there. But yeah, that's a, that's a good point.

That's kind of what I was trying to do as well the whole time. I was like, I just need like a fucking utility belt like fucking Batman, where it's like, if I, if I get someone chucking up a fucking one thing, I can just throw a fucking little bat.

Yeah.

Nunchuck, whatever it is, and fucking hit them with that. Um, because I kind of see it as scissors, paper, rock. So like, if they, if they— I was, I was trying to articulate this in a tweet before, but I guess I'll do it now. Um, It's like, so you're doing scissors, paper, rock, right? And have you ever been with one of those guys who always tries to bait you into throwing first so they can just give them all the wins?

Yeah.

I see sales calls are kind of like that. You're like trying to make them throw so they throw scissors, reveal their scissors, so then you can be like, all right, fucking rock, I got you. Yeah. You know what I mean?

Dude, I have.

So does that make sense or is that just a completely stupid idea?

Yeah, that makes sense. But what doesn't make sense is how you call it scissors, paper, rock, because that's like backwards, bro. It's rock, paper, scissors. Is that, is that just like how—

Anyone that calls it fucking rock, paper, scissors is just soy.

Dude, I've never in my like 24— yeah, I think I'm 24— never in my 24 years of life have I heard scissors, paper, rock. Is that like normal?

So when you're about to throw, you go Rock paper scissors.

Yeah, exactly.

That's soy. Oh, you go scissors paper rock and then throw.

You say it like two syllables like that?

Yes, that's how you do it.

That's fucking nuts.

Might be an Australian thing.

I think it is, dude.

But yeah, yeah, I was so I was always like I need to just get more like potential tools.

Yeah.

To throw. So if someone throws up like a fucking— I don't even know, like, did you ever have someone that would try to throw up like a TNT? Is that an American thing? Like, we would always have people in scissors, paper, rock that would just like throw up random, random shit to try and say, oh, this beats everything.

Yeah, yeah, not TNT, but there were some— trying to think. I don't know, bro. I haven't— yeah, yeah, I haven't, I haven't played that game in like 10 years. Not— that's not true, but Not in that man— like, not that matter. But yeah, dude, David wants to know why— David wants to know about your trim. Why do you refuse to get a decent trim?

It's a good question. You know, it depends. I don't want to go too hard on him. That's a problem. I don't want to feel like, you know, your girl likes it or some shit like Because, you know, you never know if it might be too soon. But yeah, no, the half mullet is loyal. That's all I can say. Just a little, you know, a little—

The half mullet. That's crazy.

There's nothing wrong with that. We do a little half mullet.

That looks like— I don't know why, but if there was like a— what's the sport you play? You call it like Australian football?

Yeah.

If there was like an official haircut of that sport, I feel like that would be it.

Oh yeah, oh, oh, oh, there's a guy called— that's a guy called Bailey Smith who has— hold on, can I put like a photo in the chat or can I like share my screen?

Uh, we'll get, uh, we'll get, we'll get Presley to pull it up. Try— you can try to share your screen. This is my first time like trying to do this on here, but if not, yeah, we can get, we can get it clipped in.

That's his haircut.

So you just rock like a variation?

There's a couple guys with that. There's a couple guys with that. But yeah, this is more like I've actually got to be on a sales call and if I look like a complete fucking idiot, it's kind of tough to like get that back.

Yeah. Yeah, 100%. That's a good point too. Like, dude, I hit on this a lot. A lot of these dudes are like, In their little like childhood bedroom, little soccer trophies behind them and the, the class picture from like 6th grade on the wall, shit like that. Maybe like crown scribbles and all that. Um, what about, what about like background optimization, bro? 'Cause I know you're kind of like, before you were on the go and stuff. Um, how much attention do you pay that? Like trying to look like, you know, camera right, lighting right, background, like your clothes are right, like all the shit that you can control? Like how much attention do you pay that?

Probably less than I should because I mean, I've got like the whiteboard, I've got a few books there. Um, it's not like I— ideally I think the best possible one is like high-rise apartment, massive room behind you. Like mic arm showing in the screen, perfect lighting, super high fucking quality camera. So it's like the flex is already there. Like you're in a fucking penthouse. Like, yeah, that's already like, that's already frame. You have like the fucking high, high quality camera like Scott Millard, bro. You can't tell me that that doesn't add to your, your frame. Yeah, like crazy.

Yeah, dude, I've been, I've been like taking a stab at it and I told, I was telling you, but yeah, I just had this light. I was supposed to have like a cool lit, like lit background here. Literally bought it like a week ago and just burnt out. I'm pretty sure like right before this call, which is insane. But the beauty of SaaS here. Yeah, at the beauty of SaaS was I was asking you about Latina Acquisition Systems. I know you did have a banger tweet that. Was that, was that your most popular? Like something, something having to do with that. But yeah, is this like a thing you're known for, by the way? Because I saw that tweet, but like, why, why did he ask that?

Well, that, that tweet popped, like that, that tweet hit, hit normie Twitter. Like it, it hit like the mainstream because it was like, um, it's like, oh no, money and Latinas. Because it's like the things, yeah, like the things you fear, like get attracted to. Or some shit like that. It's like my most liked tweet by like 10x. Like it's by far the most liked. That's weird, right? It's just 'cause, bro, if you go to Colombia, right? That's the answer. Just go to Colombia. Just walk, go for a walk around the street at any time of day and you'll understand. In terms of the acquisition automation, You'll have to refer to Cody Carnes for that because he actually has the source. He has the source. He was running Instagram ads.

That's crazy.

I personally haven't done that, but I know he did it and it worked.

That's crazy.

Will not explain further.

Dude, that's fucking funny. Yeah, if y'all want the course, the automation guaranteed to 2x your Latino flow in 90 days. It's like, how much is it? $5K?

I think it brought in like 50 warm leads.

That's crazy. ROAS is pretty good.

That's what he— because he said he spent like $15.

Damn, dude. That's insane.

I don't know. What's the ROAS like? That's like 100x.

Yeah. Yeah, I'm actually really curious to see what that looked like. But anyways, I guess kind of wrapping— She wasn't her mate. Yeah. Wrapping things up. All right, dude, you have, you have 2021 Leo here, you know, on this, on this call with you asking for advice. He's like, yo, future Leo, help me out. Like, what did you do? How'd you do it? What are like the 2 biggest, 3 biggest things that you would recommend to like not just your former self, but like young guys trying to get it, trying to be where you are? What would you recommend to them?

I love that question. It's a really good question. And I was thinking about the other day, someone was like, what would you say to yourself if you could talk to yourself at 18? I'd be like, mate, just, just chill out and just trust yourself. Like, just whatever your intuition is, just trust it because you're right. Yeah. Or like most of the time. Maybe I'm lucky that I've had enough experience and stuff like that where that's a possibility where I can just say like, yeah, whatever I like, whatever I feel a lot of the time is going to steer me in the right direction. But I think the biggest thing for me has probably just been relaxing and, and trying to draw myself in rather than like saying like, yeah, push super hard or like do this differently. Um, because everything sort of just panned out pretty well.

Yeah.

Obviously I can go the cheat code and be like, hey, yeah, I just made you a fucking 50-page document, do all this shit. Um, and it would, you know, it'd be nice, but I'd probably miss out on a lot of the, the form— uh, formative, uh, formative hardships and formative fuck-ups that are gonna have ROI. Like, I don't really believe in, um, preventing fuck-ups. Like, I'd just say just like Chill out and continue.

Yeah. So many people want to prevent them. It's like, bro, no, that's like what you need. Yeah. You know?

Because it's the latent ROI of everything. Like there's always latent ROI.

Yeah. You just, I wanted to add on one more thing before we wrap up here is like earlier we were talking a lot about how you were like outreaching to people. Kind of initiating conversation, initiating opportunity. I think a lot of like young guys mess this up really, really bad is like, bro, how— not how do you cold message? Like I'm talking Twitter, Instagram, email, not how do you do it, but how do you not do it? Like what are, what are things that these kids need to stop doing if they actually wanna be taken seriously?

Great question. And I think I actually figured— I feel like I figured this out last week because I was on a call with another guy from Twitter. And there's just a lot of pedestalizing other people and looking for someone that's going to show you the exact way to ease your own uncertainty. And that's where you run into problems where you're asking dumb shit in the DMs that could have been Googled, or you're relying on someone else outsourcing all this intuition stuff. And it really boils down to like not trusting yourself. And it's sort of that and putting other people above you. Because if you approach someone in a friendly manner, you're fucking around, you're bantering about, you know, you're joking around in the comments section, in the DMs, you know, you're like adding on to like inside jokes and stuff like that. And yeah, that's the way. And it comes from stopping looking so far up to people. Because once you get in the space, like, I'm sure you would have met a bunch of guys, you're like, oh, he's just a normal dude. Like, he might make like $50K, $100K a month, $150K a month, whatever it may be. But it's like, yeah, it's a normal dude.

Yeah. Um, I was gonna say too, like, guys who have a bit of a following, even a good-sized following, like, I don't want to speak for you if it's not true, but Dude, I see all the DMs that come in. Like, I see all the message requests. I see all of them. Like, if you're, if you're with everything that's going on in the day, not, not only with myself, but like people who are actually doing shit, it's like, bro, if you send a terrible message, super needy, super vague, not even a question, just like a statement, it's like, bro. Yeah. I'm down to help, but like, help yourself. Help me help you, bro. Like, I don't have time to just like sit around and fucking twiddle my thumbs all day on Twitter. I don't know. Do you? And I actually know people who said you're really responsive in the Twitter DMs. Do you try to get back to everyone? What's the philosophy there?

Is that Fondade?

There's a few, a few people have mentioned like they know you through the Twitter DMs and you put them on and stuff like that. So like, if you, if you get just like a garbage, like Twitter DM, are you the guy that like critiques them and you're like, hey, this is how you could do it better? Or like sometimes you let them follow up a couple times or like just seeing it from, seeing it from someone who has a bit of a following.

Yeah, it's a good question. It really just depends where I'm at in the day. Like if I've had a shocking day, I'm just gonna leave it. If I've if I'm if I've had a good day, I'll be like, yeah, bro. Like, fucking here's like a full message about like what to do, or I'll just send them to send them to like likesandcash.com, which is like a Twitter course, free Twitter course, which that's honestly that's that's the time-saving option. It's like, bro, just this sucked. Just go fucking learn some shit. Just figure out how to do it. Get back to me.

Yeah.

Yeah. Very dependent. Very dependent on the mood.

Yeah. Just be like. Be like a dude. Like, just act like you know the person, but not, not in the sense where it's like, oh, I like, I know you, so you owe me this. But just be like, just be a normal dude. Yeah, just be chill. Don't ask for too much. Don't even ask for anything to begin with. That's like a whole nother thing. But yeah.

Totally.

Last thing here, as far as Any kind of offers, what you're up to, where people can find you, plugs, whatever you want, man. Like, where, where can people find you? And let them know if you've got anything going on you'd like to share, let them know and we'll direct them over there.

Yeah, well, main stuff for me, obviously Twitter, LX Moore underscore, Telegram group attached to that where I just post a bunch of free shit. Pretty good stuff in there, honestly, if I do say so myself. I don't currently run a coaching program, so I mean, I'll probably just say go to David, go to David Jacob for coaching if you want that. And probably just ask me shit in the DMs because generally I can help send them to my Telegram, send them some type of resource if the question's good. And most of that's honestly just preventing people from buying dumb shit. So that's probably the main ROI, uh, because I haven't, I haven't really deployed an offer to my Twitter yet, but you know, maybe I will soon. Maybe, maybe DM me what, what you want me to sell. That's the biggest thing. Ask, ask to give me money and I'll determine if I'm gonna let you.

Yeah, yeah, that's pretty, pretty spot on. I want to say a plug last minute, any of you guys are listening Looking to start remote sales, it's a lot of free shit out there. Definitely dive into it if you're trying to up the network, get to know people, get connected with guys who are you know exactly where you want to be. I have a sales community linked in the description or wherever wherever this is going to be linked below or description or wherever. But now Leo, appreciate you coming on and. It's been a while since we chatted. I think it was a good amount of time to where we had enough to catch up on and talk about some good, some good subjects. And yeah, I guess, I guess that's it. We'll wrap it up here.

For sure, bro. It's been a pleasure. Join Serial Sales. That's all, that's all I do these days.

Awesome. All right, man. Appreciate you.

No worries, bro.