#076: What to Do When a Prospect Goes Silent

Welcome to the High Income Business Writing Podcast, helping you propel your writing business to a whole new level. And now, here's your host, Ed Gandia. Well, well, well. Hey there. Thank you for joining me for episode 76 of the High Income Business Writing Podcast. My name is Ed Gandia and this is the podcast for business writers and copywriters who want to take their writing businesses to the six figure level or the part time equivalent. As a quick reminder, you can find the detailed show notes for this episode by going to b2b launcher.com episode 76 as a freelancer, there are few things more frustrating than a prospect who suddenly disappears for no apparent reason. He reached out to get some information from you. He indicated a high level of interest. He was fine with your ballpark fee, even talked about moving forward in the next day or two, or let's say you even move beyond that. And you had several discussions, you put together a formal quote or proposal. There was obvious indication that they were going to pull the trigger on this and then nothing. Silence. You can't get this person to return calls, to respond to emails. It's as if they have left this planet for a while. You have no idea why. You are now wondering if it's something you said, if you did something wrong. You know all kinds of things are kind of floating around in your head and you know it's really impacting your confidence. It's really more than just not knowing where you stand. There's a psychological aspect to it and if that sounds familiar, if you've ever been there, you're really going to enjoy today's episode. My good friend and colleague Elise Bennett and I tackle this issue head on. We have a really cool discussion where we talk about the different flavors of this problem, we examine why this happens so frequently, and we offer some concrete advice, specific tips for how to deal with these frustrating situations. And a lot of this is really more on the mental game side of things, but a lot of them are actual things you can do to increase the chances of a response when the deal is worth pursuing. So anyway, I think you're really going to enjoy this and I hope you'll do me a favor if you get a lot of value from this. If you enjoyed this discussion, would you mind sharing it with a colleague or a friend who might get equal value from it? I'd really appreciate you spreading the word. The easiest way to do that is through any of the social media sharing buttons on the Show Notes page. So with that, let's get right to it. Elise welcome back to the show.

Thank you, Ed. It is great to be back with you.

Always great to have you here. And you always think you and I have some great conversations from time to time we should record them because some of this stuff is good. I mean, not that we're that great, but some of the stuff we're talking about. Right. It's in philosophizing about. It's. That's good stuff.

The Ed and Elise show.

Yes. So we're going to try to replicate that. And today we're talking about. Just follow up. You know what happens when people just, you think they're going to get back to you and prospects and clients, and they don't. And I want to set this up with an email I got from a listener of my podcast and let's just call him Tom. And Tom wrote, and I'll just read his email. He says, I was wondering if you could do a Shore article on getting prospects to return your caller email after they've contacted you. Some of them just disappear. After emailing. After emailing, then after emailing them back within a few hours. There's a typo there. If you have any secret tricks, I'd love to learn more. Then he just clarified, look, these are prospects who found me, not the other way around. They found me, they contacted me, and I said, yeah, I could probably help you. Let's connect or let's talk. And then it died. Right. So anyway, I wanted to get your kind of initial thoughts of reaction to what Tom is asking about.

So my first thought is that we have to step back and put ourselves in the other person's shoes when you're looking for something. And what do you do when you're looking for something? You go online, you Google it, you ask friends, you go on LinkedIn, you go on Facebook and you get all sorts of recommendations or links or referrals and you start reaching out to people. And what I see happening more and more is that there's such an immediacy to this process for so many people, either because they need the help immediately or because they only have 10 minutes to figure it out or some other reason. But if they don't connect with you or if they don't get what they're looking for or if they prefer what they got from someone else, then that, to me, often explains the disappearance. Like it was on the table for 10 minutes and then it got taken off the table. And sometimes you win and sometimes you don't, and sometimes you will never know what happened. But not that there Aren't things you can do to find out or to revive some of these prospects. But I think that in terms of people seemingly needing something, right, it's not like you reached out to them. They reached out to you, and then they're gone. I see that a lot, and I think it really is, you know, they found what they needed and now they don't need you.

It's a great point because we always assume, and I know there's something to it, there's got to be some kind of name in the field of psychology about this, but you always assume that this is like a logical thing that should happen, right? Well, they contacted me. I'm responding within a couple of hours. I mean, why wouldn't they. We haven't even talked price yet. Why wouldn't they reply? And there's so much that could be going on on their end that you have no idea. And you're right, I hadn't thought about the immediacy of this because sometimes. And I get in trouble too. Like if I'm. If I. I'm kind of running a little light on interviews for the podcast, I'll reach out to a handful of people and they all reply and then I don't know what to do with them. Like, oh my gosh, that's too many. And so I then not replying to all of them because I'm trying to figure out when I can fit them in. And they must be wondering the same thing. Well, wait a minute. This guy reached out to me, like, why isn't he replying? Yeah, okay, so that's a really good point. You know, I guess one of the things that people struggle with is like, I need a set, I need a framework. How can I make better decisions on when and how to follow up? Because I understand that, okay, maybe there's a lot going on, but how do I make the right decisions? Because I don't want to become a pest yet I would like to pursue these opportunities. So how do I strike that balance?

That's the question. I really think that it has to be decided, number one, on a case by case basis. But you also do need a framework. Like, here's how I follow up with people. I do one email and then I make a phone call, and then I do another email, and then I connect with them on LinkedIn. And if they, if I don't hear from them after that, I put them on my tip list. Sometimes I ask permission, sometimes I don't. And they will hear from me forever until they decide they don't want it anymore. You have to have a process that's a version of my process.

Okay.

And I think then on kind of one, on one type of, here's my list of prospects, like for my new coaching program, for example. I've talked to a lot of people about it and now it's time to follow up. Are they ready yet? I do have to think, you know, on a case by case basis about which ones I feel there is a certain kind of gut reaction involved. And you have to separate that from any fantasies about they don't want to hear from me, they must not be interested. You have to be able to separate that in your mind. But essentially, what is the most appropriate way to keep the ball in the air, to keep the conversation going despite any silence on their part? That's to me always the decision that has to be made. And I tend to err on the side of I'm going to give it one more shot. I'm going to, you know, harass them. I'm going to get a little closer to that line of harassment, which is not ever actual harassment, but I'm going to err on the side of too much because I think most people err on the side of too little. True.

So you case by case basis, you'll make decisions based on the specifics on what you do know. I mean, what are some questions you're asking yourself? You know, I know it's a, it's a, it's an intuition. Right. It's a gut thing. But can you, can you walk us through maybe some of the questions you're asking yourself to make that decision?

Well, I mean, certainly there is the question of who contacted whom. Right. And I've got a marketing plan in place that drives prospects to me to either sign up for my tips or to sign up for my free session. So generally, you know, they're contacting me because there was a need, so that's important. If it were me contacting them, you know, I would do it slightly differently. But here we're talking about people who contact you and then what was the need? How urgent was it? Did they say to me, I have no work, I need to do something now, or did they say, I can see that in the next quarter I'm going to have a little break in my availability and I'm trying to fill that up. Or they might say, I can tell that one of my, someone said this to me yesterday, I can tell that one of my long term clients is circling the drain. I love that. And I have a contract through the end of the year, but I think I'm going to need to replace it. So I need to do something. Those are two very different needs that I would respond differently to. And in my follow up, I will always be as specific as I can about what I noted was the need and what I suggested was a potential solution. Maybe it's, you know, a particular module in my coaching program or a particular worksheet that I could offer, you know, to be as specific as possible so that they know that you're thinking of them and that, okay, maybe it is something to think about.

Again, that's a great point. And those are some great questions to ask yourself. So let's talk a little bit about kind of detaching yourself emotionally from this, because I think, and I do this myself, and this is why I can talk about it. I think we all naturally give everything the same weight. It's like every inquiry that comes in or every interested prospect or a, it's like we always assume that, well, I got to go after this until I win it, you know, why wouldn't you? Like, everything is the same. And I don't think that's a healthy thing. You know, can you talk a little bit about that? Because I know you agree on that point. We've had this conversation before.

Yes. Well, I think part of the reason people do this is, is because they have not clarified for themselves what they need. So that could be as simple as I need four $2500 projects every month to make my goal. If you haven't figured that out for yourself, then every prospect, you don't really have a way to assess their value to you compared to what you're trying to accomplish. So when that happens, everything does tend to have the same weight, whether it's emotional weight or some other kind of weight. But if, you know, I need four $2,500 projects, then you can say, oh, well, this person who really just wanted an $800 profile written is not going to get me as close to this person who wanted a whole website written. So that's the one I'm going to pursue.

Gotcha.

Right? So it's not really emotional. People make it emotional, but it's really very practical. It's like, which are my best prospects that will get me closest or beyond my monthly goal? And those are the ones I pursue. Those are the ones when I only have a half an hour on a particular day to do follow up. Those are the ones I start with. But you have to have that framework in place in order to know which people to follow up on.

You know, I call it the, the retail store mentality, which is. Right. A retail store, they have no choice, so they're depending on that foot traffic. They treat every customer the same way. And everyone's, everyone's the same. But you're, you're not, you're not a retail store. Right. You have constraints. And like you said, if you know and if you need. That's why it's so important to clarify that what you need to generate every month, if you know you have that need based on the limited information you do have, that's enough to make a decision in terms of how far you're going to pursue it and how you're going to feel about it if they don't contact you. Because, you know, going back to Tom's email, I could tell he was really, really frustrated. Now, he didn't expand on what the inquiry was, but, you know, it doesn't really matter. I mean, it sounds like this is happening a lot, and each time he is, he's very frustrated about it.

But he doesn't even know if that was a good prospect.

Exactly. Well, he. All that he may, and we don't know. We can only assume that maybe they did tell him. Do you, you know, do, do you do this kind of work? So maybe he had some idea as to what they needed, but he doesn't understand anything about them yet. He hasn't had a conversation.

Right.

You know, so. And in fact, you know, I think this brings up another, another point which is the. So let's kind of move beyond kind of this early, early stage, right, where they contacted you, they give you a little bit of information, you respond, and then you don't hear back. So let's move on to, you know, you, you were actually able to schedule that kickoff call or that initial conversation.

And let me just interrupt you there because I think an important point needs to be made that whenever possible, you want to have an actual conversation in real time because it is just way too easy to respond to inquiries that come in by email with a price or something that may be appropriate for the person or may not, but you don't know because you don't know them well enough. And it's just easier because of everything else that's going on to just email them back something. I advise my clients to always stop and think, is this a prospect I want? Do I know? And if I don't know, let me at least get them on the phone for 10 minutes. So I can decide.

It's a great point. So let's talk about that. How would you, how would you respond to that prospect? Can you give us some language ideas? Because I think this is where a lot of people get stuck. They're afraid to suggest that, they're afraid to ask for that call because it was such a blunt question. How much do you charge for this? And you're turning it around. So how do you do that? Gracefully and in a very professional yet direct way.

I would say always. Generally, there are many different factors involved in the pricing of the project that you're asking for. And so I need a little bit more information from you and would be happy to jump on a 10 minute call to discuss it and then I can give you a price. And I think the reason this is important is because the client, the prospect, has to invest something. And if they're not willing to invest 10 minutes on the phone with you, to me that's a red flag.

And it's interesting because nobody really talks about that. Everyone talks about. Yeah, but what if they don't contact me again? What if they don't reply to that? Now I've lost them. See what you did to me, Elise? Right. That's the tendency though, isn't it?

Yes, but, you know, they may or may not say yes. And it's possible, you know, that they will not respond to that, in which case, you know, that they're shopping, they're price shopping, and those are not good prospects. So if they're willing to invest 10 minutes and tell you a little bit and have an actual conversation, then I think you're well on your way to a much better relationship.

So that's great advice. Let's talk about then that conversation because this kind of brings up the same set of questions, but things have moved on, have moved from there. Right? So this is, you have that conversation, everything's looking great, you put something together. And we can kind of backtrack here when you answer this, but. And then you send something. You send. Or you give them a ballpark figure in the call or you agree to send a proposal or a quote.

Okay, wait, wait, wait. Let's, let's talk about giving the ballpark figure on the call. I think this is essential also to get some numbers on the table while you're in real time with them, because that way you can hear if they fall off their chair. Otherwise you won't know. And I make a distinction between talking money and quoting prices. They're not the same thing. Often when people Are asked when you ask your prospect, what's the budget? And they say, oh, we don't have a budget. And that, of course, could mean the sky's the limit or we have no money, or more likely, and more often, it means we really don't know what this should cost. So help us out here. And in that situation, you throw some numbers out. You say, you know, 500 or 5,000, 5,000 or 50,000, make it a very large range, because that they can respond to rather than, what's your budget? And then you have an opportunity. I did this yesterday with a client. I said, okay, that sounds like it's going to be quoting something very large, five to six thousand dollars. Is that in your budget? And she said, no, actually, we were thinking 3,000. Okay, well, then let me put an estimate together based on that. I mean, otherwise you're going to waste your time. Even if it takes you 10 seconds, you're going to waste your time putting something together for someone who you don't know, you still don't know if it's their magic number. So I am pushing constantly for people to push to get that some kind of numbers on the table in the sense of talking money as opposed to quoting prices. And I know I quoted a price, but really the floating some numbers is more about, you know, are we talking this or that? And you're not saying it could be this or that. You're just saying, where are you on the spectrum?

I. I'm a huge believer of talking money in that conversation. Every question that I get about this stage of the relationship, the reason it's a huge question and the reason people are losing sleep over the specific situation is because they didn't talk money in the call.

Exactly. Exactly.

It's like, okay, I just hung up with this prospect. Oh, my gosh, what should I quote? That is invariably the question I get. And I think if you get used to just having this discussion, it is a little scary at first because you're not used to it. But if you structure it the right way, it's. You'll get used to it very quickly. And I think the client, the prospect, will also appreciate this. I always wait. I don't know what you typically do, Elise. I always wait to ask to talk money until I've asked the other questions, because I want to kind of set it up the right way. And I have a very specific process instead of questions that I use, but it's kind of a checklist. And first I want to know how they found out about me. That that is very important. And I ask it first because tells me a lot right away. And it helps me maybe shift my questions a little bit. Then I want to know about their need, whether it's a specific project or a challenge. Then I want to start talking about timing. You know, when are you looking to get this done? When are you looking to go live? I also have some questions about their decision making process and how they're going about this. And then not until I've done all that do I address, do I talk about money. And I actually have a very specific question. I ask everyone. I've been using this for years. I don't know. It works for me. I say, elise, what kind of budget are you working with? And it just. To me, it's asking the question in a very direct way. And the reason I memorized it years ago is that way I don't stumble, because a lot of people get nervous. So if you don't have it memorized, you're gonna say, yeah, so in terms of money, no, just ask the question. And at that point, I'll see if we're playing ball. Right. So the way I see it is I toss the ball back at them. I want to know they toss it back. So they'll give me an idea, or they'll toss it back at me and say, well, we don't know. Or like you said, we don't have a budget. Or we were hoping you could tell us first what this would cost, but that's fine. You know, I actually like that because I know we're playing ball. And then at that case, I will quote a ballpark figure. Or I love your strategy of, well, I kind of need to know, are we thinking 5,000 or 50,000? That really forces people off the fence. But yeah, just. Just giving them a ballpark. That part I think it just comes with. With experience, you just have to know some ranges, and it can be fairly wide. But then I throw it back at them. Okay, well, now I shared something. Now you tell me, is this within your budget? And it's funny how many people who said it's not really we don't know suddenly can give me an answer.

Of course, because they do know. And sometimes they don't know. They know. But I want to just make sure something is clear here, because we're talking about. Talking about money in the first conversation, but we're also saying keep, you know, push it off to the end of that first conversation. Because the people who start with money, who lead with, what's your price? For X, those are not good prospects in the first place either. And it's usually an indication that they're price shopping. So it's, it's delicate and there's no, you know, do this, but don't do that. You really do have to kind of feel your way through it. But I think the important point is, and you said this, but I want to reiterate it, we're talking, the topic today is how do you get people to respond? We put ourselves in that place of waiting for a response because we don't talk about money right away. In a way, the solution to how do you get people to respond is make sure it was clear if the financial piece was a good fit. Because once you hang up the phone, then you'll know whether or not you need them to respond.

Absolutely, I would say. But the other areas are important too, right? I think the money thing is huge and it's the one everyone leaves off. The other areas I mentioned I think are important, Elise, because then you understand, like how far you need to take it. Because if I understand what project they were referring to, right? What's the deliverable, what's the scope? If I understand how they're making a decision, if I understand their timing and all those things and the money, then I mean, I got the full picture. So it no longer becomes, what the heck is going on? How come they aren't replying? I usually have enough information where that part is not as confusing. Sometimes it will be because everything pointed to, well, we're ready to go. But if I'm honest with myself, I realize, well, based on what they share with me, I can kind of see why I might not be getting a response right now.

So let's come back to this question of getting people to respond. I agree with you about all of that information. It is important. But I think that even if you follow these guidelines and do all of these things, there will be a lot of people who don't respond.

And.

I was just remembering recently I was organizing an event and I reached out to someone I didn't know, just totally out of the blue. And I put in three phone messages and email messages and LinkedIn and everything. And I heard nothing. And I really took it personally. Like, this person doesn't even know what I'm offering and they're not responding. And I think the point to be made here is when we take it personally, we have to know that they don't know know us well enough to reject us, right? They, they often don't know what they're rejecting. And it's really easy to say they don't want me or, you know, they don't know what they're missing, whatever the emotional reaction is. But I think, you know, the reality is that the, there is just way too much email and there are too many things going on and people are under a tremendous amount of pressure and they are not being paid enough to do it and they don't have enough help. And some of the things that fall by the wayside are these missed connections. And I think you just have to accept it as part of doing business and know that just because they're not responding doesn't mean you should stop reaching out. And I just make it my business to stay in touch. And people thank me when they finally do respond, they thank me for staying in touch. It demonstrates persistence, it demonstrates professionalism, it demonstrates my interest because it'd be really easy for them also to assume, oh, she stopped reaching out, she must not be interested anymore. So I think there are a lot of benefits to just ignore the silence almost with any situation, unless you think, all right, there's nothing here. I think you have to err on the side of do more follow up.

You know, and I will like to add something to that, Elise. Many times people have been followed up with so much and they, they really mean well and they want to get back to you, but there, there's something going on in their personal life or at work that they just can't right now. And there comes a point when you followed up so much that they feel like they now it's not safe to reach out. And I always like to give people an out and I always like to be friendly with my follow up and make sure that people feel safe to at some point when they're ready to reply because if they don't, if they don't feel safe, they won't reply. Right. So I think there's something to just always staying professional, always staying friendly, making it clear that you're not taking anything personally that's going to give them an out and give them a way to then save face and get back to you when things are right. I was working with a coaching client the other day and this was a client of his that he's been working with for a long time. And the client asked him for a bigger commitment on his part. And I won't get into the details, but my coaching client had to really think about that because he didn't know if he wanted to go there. He really enjoyed working with his company. But what this client was asking was kind of a lot. So he responded. And I kind of guided him through how to respond to this. And he responded with something really strong, but very professional. And I thought he did a fantastic job, better than I would have done. And then the client didn't reply. And then a week went by, and then two weeks, and actually several weeks went by and he was getting very worried. He thought, oh, my gosh, here we go. I just completely turned him off. And I said, you know what? I suspect something's going on here based on what you've shared with me, that you just, you just don't even know what it is. And I bet it has nothing to do with you, and I bet it has nothing to do with your response. And sure enough, a few weeks later, he said, you do not believe it. After two months, he finally replied. He got hurt. He was in an accident and he's fine, but he had to go through all this therapy. And, you know, he really apologized, but everything was fine. In fact, he, he told me that he loved my response. He completely understands. And, yeah, we're back to doing things together, and he knows where I was coming from. But think about if you would have kind of gotten more aggressive in your tone and then not made it safe for that person to come back to you and then you find out what happened. I mean, how would you feel? Right?

Yeah. And I am not suggesting being aggressive in the tone at all when I say, err on the side of more follow up or even toward harassment. And I think humor can be used very effectively in this kind of follow up. Like, I advise clients to come right out and say, yes, I'm stalking you. I hope you don't mind. Yes, right. Because that's the fear is they're gonna think you're stalking them. Well, go ahead, say you are. Let's see what happens. They may respond.

I used to use humor a lot when I was in sales. For that kind of last attempt, I would always include, I think it was from the far side, a little cartoon where you could see the executive. He was standing behind his desk, he had his phone, and he was checking his planner with his other hand.

Right?

So phone in one hand, checking the plan on the other. And he said, yeah, let me check. How about never would never be okay with you? And, you know, I would conclude a note there with email saying, you know, I don't know if this is the way you feel right now, but I, you know, I thought I'd check in one last Time in my response rate for that last attempt was huge because, you know, they said, okay, this guy's got a sense of humor. Or maybe they just felt sorry for me, I don't know.

Yeah, no, I think that's wonderful. And I think you can let them off the hook in this way by saying something like, please don't feel pressured to respond just because I keep following up. I trust you will let me know when you're ready.

So let's talk a little bit about nurturing, because I know you and I agree on this and just kind of nurturing being a fancy term for just kind of staying in touch. And you talked about this a little earlier, but I'm curious. Let's say that. Let's say you got to the point where you had the conversation, this is a really good prospect. The budget was right, everything was really cool. You sent something out and then it just kind of fizzled. Like you followed up, you followed up, nothing really happened. I would guess that most people just kind of give up after a certain number of follow ups. But you and I both agree that there's a huge opportunity in just kind of staying in touch in a value added way. Can you speak to that a little bit?

Sure. So the value added way includes in my mind, basically letting them know that you're thinking of them and that you're keeping your eye out for them and that you're passing along any information that might be useful. So those are sometimes links or blog posts or white papers or anything, whether you create it or write it yourself, or you just curate it and pass it along. But the idea is I'm over here thinking of how I'm going to help you, and I think people appreciate that. So that's always an option. In fact, if there are, you know, two or three dream clients that you're working on and nurturing, you can spend specific, dedicated time to just go looking for something that would be useful to them that would be a good use of your time.

Yeah, I have had so many clients come out of just kind of that long term nurturing that it just takes a couple for you to become a real believer in this idea. And I think you stand out. Just the fact that you're doing it and you're doing it professionally and in a very relevant way. You're not just sending stuff that doesn't really matter. I think that that really makes you stand out. So, you know, Elise, if it's okay, I want to kind of do a shameless plug for a program, a training program. You and I put together called Close the deal because we go over a lot of what we discussed today in that program. There's of course a lot more information, very specific advice, step by step, process maps, that sort of thing. But it's called Close the Deal, how to turn more prospects into clients. And I would invite anyone who is challenged in this area or wants to learn how to improve what they're doing and how to turn more of those inquiries into solid clients to check it out. You can learn more@closingmore deals.com and I'll include that link in the show notes. But I thought I'd take this opportunity while I was thinking about it to plug that.

It's an occupational hazard, Ed.

Absolutely. So Elise, this has been wonderful. Another great discussion. Where can listeners learn more about you and what you're up to? I know you got some really cool stuff out there right now, some new stuff.

Yes. So My website is marketing-mentor.com and I have three things that I'm pointing people to these days. One is my quick tips from Marketing mentor which is my email tips that I send send out every other week. And also that's the list of people who hear first about the sales I run in my online store where you can buy all sorts of bundles, a marketing plan I have for sale there proposal bundles which are actual examples of proposals. I have a package pricing bundle that teaches you how to package your prices and or package your services. And then I also have a brand new coaching program called command the fees you deserve which is based on the creative live course that I taught recently. And it's kind of a mix and match modules that are aimed at getting stuff done. So if you're interested in getting some of these tools put in place, that's a good process to go through.

Awesome. Well, I will include notes or links to all that in the show notes and I encourage everyone to check it out. Elise puts out some fantastic material. It's always, she's always been someone I look up to, Elise, and you set the bar pretty high. So thanks, thanks again and thanks for coming on. This has been wonderful.

Thank you, Ed. My pleasure. It's always a fun conversation.

Well, I hope you enjoyed that discussion and that it gave you some good ideas to try next time this happens to you. And I wanted to remind you of a couple of things. First, you can grab the details show notes for this episode@b2b. Launcher.com Episode 76 and also if you enjoy this episode and if you're getting great value from the show it would really mean a lot to me if you gave the show a quick and honest rating or review on itunes. And the easiest way to do that is to go to b2b launcher.com iTunes. That's a direct link to the page on itunes for the show where you can then log into your itunes account and do your thing. So that brings us to the end of the episode. I am your host, Ed Gandia. Thanks so much for listening and I hope you have an awesome day. The High Income Business Writing Podcast is a production of B2B business launcher. Learn more at B2B launcher.com.

A by saying something like, you know, please don't feel pressured to respond just because I keep following up. I trust you will let me know when you're ready.

So let's talk a little bit about nurturing because I know you and I agree on this and just kind of nurturing being a fancy term for just kind of staying in touch. And you talked about this a little earlier, but I'm curious. Let's say that, let's say you got to the point where you had the conversation. This is a really good prospect. The budget was right, everything was really cool. You sent something out and then it just kind of fizzled. Like you followed up, you followed up, nothing really happened. I would guess that most people just kind of give up after a certain number of follow ups. But you and I both agree that there's a huge opportunity in just kind of staying in touch in a value added way. Can you speak to that a little bit?

Sure. So the value added way includes in my mind, basically letting them know that you're thinking of them and that you're keeping your eye out for them and that you're passing along any information that might be useful. So those are sometimes links or blog posts or white papers or anything, whether you create it or write it yourself, or you just curate it and pass it along. But the idea is I'm over here thinking of how I'm going to help you, and I think people appreciate that. So that's always an option. In fact, if there are, you know, two or three dream clients that you're working on and nurturing, you can spend specific dedicated time to just go looking for something that would be useful to them that would be a good use of your time.

Yeah. I have had so many clients come out of just kind of that long term nurturing that it just takes a couple for you to become a real believer in this idea. And I think you stand out. Just the fact that you're doing it and you're doing it professionally and in a very relevant way. You know, just sending stuff that doesn't really matter. I think that that really makes you stand out. So, you know, Elise, if it's okay, I want to kind of do a shameless plug for a program, a training program you and I put together called Close the Deal, because we go over a lot of what we discussed today in that program. There's, of course, a lot more information, very specific advice, step by step, process maps, that sort of thing. But it's called Close a Deal, how to turn more prospects into clients. And I would invite anyone who is challenged in this area or wants to learn how to improve what they're doing and how to turn more of those inquiries into solid client to check it out. You can learn more@closingmore deals.com and I'll include that link in the show notes. But I thought I'd take this opportunity, while I was thinking about it, to plug that.

It's an occupational hazard. Ed.

Absolutely. So, Elise, this has been wonderful. Another great discussion. Where can listeners.