Ep 057 - A Smarter Way to Update Your Kitchen

Welcome to Be a Smarter Homeowner Podcast, where you'll discover strategies to save money, save time, and be better organized in managing your largest financial asset and biggest expense, your home. Your hosts, John Bodrozic and Beth Dodson, who are co-founders of HomeZada, have been supporting homeowners for over 20 years. They are here to share with you their tips and suggestions, as well as interviews with industry experts, with the goal of helping you become a smarter homeowner. Now here's your hosts, John and Beth.

Hi, welcome to Be a Smarter Homeowner Podcast. I'm Beth Dodson, your host, and today we are joined by Chris Seaman from N-Hance, a company that is redefining how homeowners think about kitchen and cabinet upgrades. Instead of full expensive remodels, N-Hance Chris focuses on renewing, refinishing, and restoring cabinets, helping homeowners transform their spaces faster, more affordably, and with less disruption. Chris brings a unique perspective, perspective on how to get a high-impact upgrade without the high-end price tag and how to make smarter decisions when it comes to improving your home. Chris, thank you so much for being here and welcome to Be a Smarter Homeowner Podcast.

Well, thank you so much, Beth. I'm really excited to be here and get to talk about kitchens. It's obviously what I get to do all day and I love it.

That's fantastic. So let's just get started with one quick thing. What's the biggest misconception homeowners have when it comes to updating their kitchens or even their cabinets?

Well, I think, I think the biggest one is pretty simple. It's like, if I want to, if I want to upgrade my kitchen, I have to rip everything out and I have to just start from scratch. And really what Enhance came, the proposition is that your biggest savings you could ever make is your cabinet boxes are great. We can then take them to the next level and get you all the design choices you want to make your kitchen look new and exciting and however that, that feel feels good for you.

Yeah. And, you know, just from someone who has a lot of cabinetry in my kitchen for a lot of reasons, but literally changing out parts of the faces of the kitchen, of the cabinetry, would make a huge difference into the look and feel of my space. Because I have really dark wood in my kitchen and I have really ornate wood. It would also help my cleaning, by the way, because it's so ornate. But what are the number one things that people are looking at when they are trying to make an update to their kitchen? And why are cabinets so integral in part of that process?

Well, I think when you look at a kitchen, which, you know, in the American home today, the kitchen is the number one gathering spot for families, friends, anything, events. It just tends to go to the kitchen and open floor plans have really accentuated the value of a kitchen. And, you know, it's— you can see a kitchen almost from any part of the main floor anymore of a home. And when you look at, you know, my house feels outdated, I don't feel like I'm in the appropriate style, it's the cabinets that draw your eye. They're just so prevalent.

Yeah.

And, you know, since they take up such a large visual part of your brain that, you know, when you start thinking, I have to do something to make my my house look better, it almost primarily goes back to kitchens. And people think cabinets. And again, you know, from, from experience, you know, what can you do? Is, is your layout okay, or do you need a layout change? And then, you know, and that changes really everything that you're going to do with, with the, with the cabinet. And it gives you so many options when you say, hey, look, my layout is fine, I would like a better look, a better feel, a little better organization. All of those kind of things can be done relatively affordably, and most importantly, I think in most situations, is relatively quickly, um, which changes the dynamics of what you're doing in your home.

Yeah, so let's, let's talk about like the speed, because that's really important. Um, to your point, when you have to rip up and, and replace an entire kitchen, change the layout, do all kinds of crazy, you are literally turning off water, turning off gas, turning off electric, turning off everything To have access inside that room. And you are also at a stage where if you turn all that off and you do it all at once and you rip it all out, then you also— hopefully it's summer and you have a grill outside because you're either going out all the time to eat, or you are grilling, or you're living on, um, fresh vegetables. And once again, hopefully it's, um, summertime.

Yeah. And fruits.

But how fast would it take for someone to do a resurface of some cabinetry versus ripping up an entire kitchen? I mean, and granted, the size of the kitchen, the style of the kitchen, the materials, whether they get delivered in time and all that other good stuff still plays an impact. But let's talk about how fast it can be.

Well, if, you know, I'll do it in comparison to like a standard, everything goes perfect remodel is usually on average 8 to 12 weeks. And we all can tell the horror stories and everything there, but like perfect, everything goes right, it's going to be about 8 to 12 weeks to do a full gut remodel and replace and build from scratch. In enhance, it really just depends on, you know, where you're going to go and what you want. The actual works, let's just say you want to do a color change or a wood renewal option, you maintain your current door fronts and all of that, that's 3 to 5 days total. Once you're on the calendar, you're done in 3 to 5 days. The, uh, if you want new door fronts, which is a big, big visual change to the, to the home.

Yeah.

We usually try to order those a couple weeks in advance. You're usually booked, you're on the schedule for a couple weeks, and then shockingly, the actual time in the home is still 3 to 5 days. So your disruption is really low. And what we like to always tell people is, so when we finish up Friday at 5 o'clock, because of the type of coating we use and the protectant that goes over that cabinet, is we try to make your cabinets better than factory. And that coating allows you to have people there within 30 minutes. They can then touch it. They can transfer oils from their fingers. It's not gonna ruin the countertops. You can have a happy hour, you can have a pizza party, you can have friends and family over and you can see your new kitchen. And so it's literally that quick and the disruption is that small. And now if it's a crazy huge kitchen or something like that, it might take another day or two.

Yeah. But so basically what you're saying is you're basically either resurfacing or taking off the front. of the cabinets. And a homeowner, I mean, it might be messy, but they potentially could still operate in the kitchen after hours between when the guys are in— guys and gals are in the house and doing all the work. So they could still probably like still maybe cook a dinner.

For most of the nights, I think there'd be like one night it would probably be a little— because there's one of the, um, one of the coatings Before we put on our final coat would take about a 12-hour on average normal cure dry time.

Yes.

And that would probably be the only time we would ask you to, you know, just to leave the kitchen alone. So one night, go out and get a dinner or grab some pizza, you know, and you're good to go. We're not ripping your appliances out, so your refrigerator is still there. You can still access all that stuff. Your sink is still working. So, you know, the basics can still be maintained. And I think, you know, You know, this is a study. It was a long time ago, but it seems to hold true. The number one complaint people have with remodeling their home isn't the project or the cost. It's actually the disruption of the family life. Oh, yes. We're really trying to minimize that as much as possible because we do know, you know, we all love the finished product. So we want to make sure the whole experience doesn't sour us on, on that as we get through it.

Yes. And to your point, yeah, you can still operate your sink for those people who still need coffee in the morning, which, you know, most people who are listening to this podcast My co-founder and I, we talked about water damage in our house and to get coffee we had to go out because we had to turn the water off. And I was like, you can't make this up. So, um, it's just so funny. So that is brilliant. So the time, the speed of it is very quick. It is a quick turnaround. It allows people to see a brand new space. Now let's talk about, um, trends. That are happening right now? Because there's always trends with cabinets. And, um, one of the things I talked about earlier is I have very ornate cabinets. I don't know if they're still in or they're still out. Some people are opting for more flush cabinetry because it is easier to clean. But I also know that colors are also very important in the style of a home because certain colors can make a home look bigger or smaller or what have you. So what are some of those trends that you're seeing right now?

Well, I always first, like, whenever we talk about trends, I would say, you know, for someone who's in the style business, the last 10 years has been kind of brutal because it's been white cabinetry, white this, white that.

Away.

And it's so, you know, and if you got that and you like it, love it, go for it. I'm not there. But it's only been in the last year or so we're starting to see that trend away to, surprisingly, the natural wood look is coming back incredibly hard. You know, we call that a classic door renewal. or classic cabinet renewal, and we get that wood back to a shape. It doesn't even have to be the same color that it was originally, but that's what it looks like it was. And then, you know, from there, you know, some prevalent kind of interesting color changes are coming in. You know, I think there's the standard. I mean, people have really started gravitating back towards the creams and the beiges, you know, not quite, you know, really crazy from the whites. And then some of the bold color changes that are really popping, you know, as we kind of get into it, are your deep blues and your charcoal, surprisingly, have really started to come to the forefront. And, and I don't know how long this particular trend will last, but one of the more interesting ones is some of the retro colors are coming back a little bit more muted than you would see in the '70s. But, you know, your avocado greens, I know. Your buttery yellows.

I see that.

Yeah. And I can almost understand the buttery yellow a little bit more than the avocado green personally, because I grew up in the '70s. So I have these visual, you know, PTSD, you know, PTSD from seeing these kitchens and what's involved in them. But, you know, the— if you look at those kind of trends, it's— I think the biggest trend is really kind of introducing personality back in the kitchen. It's not just that HDTV, a stark white with, you know, stainless steel fixtures. And I think that's one of the biggest things that I think people are going with. And, and, you know, whenever I have these conversations with people, I always go, there's really 2 avenues that when you're looking at your kitchen and you're looking at your next steps in your kitchen, are you doing it because you want to live there and you're making it for yourself?

Yeah.

Or are you doing it for an investment because you're looking for that next purchaser to come in and do the product? And if you're doing it for yourself and you plan on living at home for many, many years, I say go crazy. The beautiful thing about Enhance is let's say you go with that avocado green that, you know, we're laughing, but you love.

Yeah.

2 years later, you want a different color, come bring us back. We'll change it for you. It's really that type of opportunity to do it. And it's something you can do at a relatively— a color change is relatively affordable. And especially if you're not changing the doors and the hardware, you know, you really drop your overall price down quite significantly.

Totally.

Now here's another question, because I know it sounds crazy, but because I'm always like looking at what people do, not a lot of people can always visualize what a cabinet will look, or sometimes they have to live in it in order to feel it and like, oh, it resonates. Have you ever had customers who put doors on or put a sample door on and say, let me live with it for a minute? Come back in a couple days, and then we'll decide whether this is the color I want to go with.

You know, it's not common. It does happen. You know, I think we're— we do— one thing we do have that's really awesome by living in— you know, there's a lot of fears about technology and where it's going.

I am.

But one thing that's really nice about it is I can take a photo of your current kitchen.

Yep.

With my phone. And then I can say, add this door at this color, and then I can show you what it's gonna look like.

Yeah.

And it's your kitchen. So it's, it's a little bit more relevant to how it sticks to you. But I haven't had too many people actually— we, we put a door up and hold it. There's a sample door, but we've done color, you know, do a cabinet and let it, let it, let it sit. You know, it just adds time and money and things like that. So a lot of customers go right away.

Totally. So, um, and then speaking of that, the, um, we talked about— so the cost is kind of obvious in my mind. A true traditional renovation of a kitchen is 8 to 12 weeks if on good things, and you're replacing a lot of components: appliances, countertops, cabinets, sometimes flooring, sometimes not, sinks, faucets, etc. But when you're resurfacing cabinets and what have you, and you're replacing doors or whatever choice you make in terms of the cabinet component, and the fact that it's shorter in duration, I'm assuming the cost is exponentially less than a full-on remodel. Because let's face it, appliances are expensive, faucets. Are expensive.

Yeah.

People don't realize that.

Yeah. And then, you know, I think the probably the best way to phrase it is, you know, when you, when you do an enhanced version of things, you can do it in, like, almost a modular fashion. You know, you can pick components and say, look, I want a new color. I want a new door. I want new drawer fronts. I want new hardware. You know, I love those European soft-close hinges. I now want those. You can do all of that in the average kitchen, usually, you know, 10 grand-ish. That's not bad at all. So, you know, it looks like you have a brand new kitchen with everything. And, you know, if you then want a different company to come in and, you know, slap a new countertop on later, a new sink, new faucet, new appliances, you can do those modular over time, and you don't have the upfront cost disruption, everything like that. The best thing is, is like, you know, think logically about your home and do you really need a new layout? If you only need another, like, 1 or 2 new cabinets, you know, that's something that we can add in for you. You know, building a small island, something along those lines relatively easily. It's the, the expense comes in, like you said, when you gut all that out. I'm gonna move my plumbing. I'm gonna put my refrigerator over here, and now my stove's gonna go over here. And I, I need, you know, I'm gonna do this new massive, I, I all of a sudden love this expensive stove. Now I have to have a better, you know, fan to, you know, Yes. meet code now to be able to vent the air at appropriate levels. And those are things that you just kinda add on and tack in that can really start adding up to the expense. You know, we, we look at, you know, everything from renewing the wood, which is like kind of keeping the wood look, relatively inexpensive. Then it's just a color change where you keep all your doors and all your hardware. And then your next step up, the expensive step for us is the, you know, right, right around the $10,000 range depending on what you select and how big your kitchen is.

So for people out there, this is like a huge cost savings because $10,000 versus, and I can tell you some of my friends and family and people I've known, they're spending anywhere between $50,000 and $250,000 to renovate a kitchen.

Yeah, I think—

Crazy.

You know what, it is.

Depending on where they are in the country.

Yeah, it's going to go up, obviously coastal regions, things like that. But I think average remodel in the United States is between $75,000 and $95,000 currently.

It's still a lot of money.

It's a lot of money. And you brought up one of the big things that you kind of get into is, you know, Very often that that cabinet change, that different layout. Also, now you gotta replace all the flooring. Something a lot of people don't even think about. And is there something wrong with your current flooring? Often there's not. A lot of these things also depending on how your house is laid out, unless you're gonna rip all the walls down and put in retaining beams and everything like that, your kitchen layout is kind of where it's at. So how do you make that kitchen more functional, prettier, more modern, whatever it is that kind of fits your taste? And then if that's what your option is, you know, we're, you know, this kind of cabinet recoating, resurfacing, color change is like an amazing option for people who, um, and our word is to try to get out to people aware that this is an option that they can take because I think most people still think, I don't like my cabinets, I got to replace everything.

Yeah, and I, I also think that what most people don't realize is sometimes Replacing cabinets with— and I understand why white was so popular for so long, but even white creams and some others that are lighter in color, they actually can make a room look bigger.

Yeah.

Yeah. And so there's more cleaning, just FYI, for those people who are there. There's more cleaning, but you— it can make our space look bigger in some capacity. I'm glad to see though too the trends of really different rich colors. As well as these— I can't believe the '70s are coming back. This is so hilarious because it just proves that, you know, what comes around goes around over and over again. Unbelievable.

Yeah, I mean, there was a day, like, you know, um, you know, I— like I said, I grew up in the '70s, and, you know, there was wall-to-wall carpeting in every room. There was, you know, all the crazy colors. And, you know, the carpets have gone away. We've gone with hard surface flooring, and we've gone with more neutral colors, and we've kind of went for this kind kind of, again, you know, the— we've all lived through the open floor plan. So how that's, um, you know, where does that mean and what is that going to go and for usability for you and your home? And then I love the fact now that you can look at the last 70 years and say, my personal taste gives me the option. I'm not stuck in any category. I like that. I don't have to live up with what other people find. It doesn't matter. I can make it. I can make any color that exists. And, uh, if that's what you want, we're ready to go. We've had some interesting ones recently, um, which I don't want to say because I don't want anyone to get their feelings hurt because we're not trying to hurt people's feelings. But we've had some choices that I were like, wow, that's very unique. I've literally never seen that before. And, and, uh, hey, good, great for you.

Uh, yes, they get to be themselves. That's brilliant because it's easier, I think, sometimes to be, to have more freedom when it's not super expensive and you don't have to be attached to it as, as long. If you want to make a change, you can make a change. I also am a firm believer that one of the benefits that your company is bringing to the table is because you don't have to do a full-on kitchen remodel, you as a homeowner— and I, I think about a lot of new homeowners out there who are trying to balance all the different projects they've got. They are brand new, they've never owned a home before, they have to furnish it, they want it to be personalized, they've got to replace HVAC equipment or something, whatever. This option gives them the ability to personalize it, refresh it, but also to prioritize exactly other projects rather than gutting a whole kitchen when it takes up all of the project dollars.

Yeah. Yeah, I think that's a great— that's a great point, Beth, because You know, I think we've all been in our first home scenario, and I was, I, you know, I, I was, uh, you know, late 20s, and I'm at Home Depot buying cabinets I have to build and trying to get myself that kitchen that at least looks like it was made in the last, you know, 75 years and wasn't going to fall over. And, you know, and that, even that minor kind of kitchen, you know, really took care of a lot of the budget for a lot of years as you're trying to get into that Get that home and you want to make sure you're putting the appropriate amount of money in a home. You know, if it is really in the starter home phase, you're going to put $80,000 into it. That's not going to return $80,000 when you go to sell it in a couple years for the next home. And that money could have been better put aside for a down payment on that next dream home or something along those lines.

Correct. Now, to the point is, so what have you seen as it relates to the return on investment of just Updating cabinets.

Yeah, I you know the biggest thing is okay. You know there in as you know this even better than I do. Some of the best things about updates is it gives you two components: How quickly is it attractive to the audience to purchase it? So how long is your house going to sit waiting for a buyer? And two, it's like how much do you get a return on the financial investment you put into that remodel? You know just real quick, I'll quote other people so we're not you know thinking I'm making up the numbers, but. You know, like in Zillow, um, yeah, you know, Zillow, you can just go to their website and what you're seeing is that if you're doing a minor update, which is what they classify what we do as a minor update, you know, you can get back from 70 to 100% of that. And, you know, so $10,000, you know, it's easy enough to get that back. The large high remodel, the crazy one, you're gonna get 35 to 50% of that back.

Yeah.

And so that's why I'm always cautious when you're doing a remodel. First thing is, why are you doing it?

Correct.

You can make a lot of decisions, uh, make them with logic and your heart at the same time. Understand, I'm doing this because I love it. Uh, don't— the return on it is something that N-Hance is great at. So that's a great niche that we occupy. We can really help you get that return on that, on that, you know, relatively small investment can help you sell that home faster and sell it for a larger amount. But if you say, hey, I'm going to be here 20 years and I really want to add in this crazy coffee nook that I might be the only person on the planet who likes it. Yeah, go ahead, install it, but don't expect to get the money back except for the time you get to use it and love it.

And you know what else I just thought, Chris, that, um, I was just thinking this, I can't believe I'm saying this, um, wait, resurfacing cabinets and doing what you, your company does It's actually really great for homeowners who own rental properties that maybe just need simple updates and refreshes, but don't need a full-on, you know, spending all the money on completely gutting and changing everything out, especially with smaller properties that are condos or what have you. Getting in there and refreshing it makes it more appealing on a photograph, on a site. But at the same time, do you really want to spend a lot of money on a property that you're going to be renting where renters are coming and going? And unfortunately, a lot of renters don't take care of a property that isn't theirs. So this is a great tool and solution for people who have rental properties.

Oh, 100%. And I think one of our, like in the commercial space, you look at like the rental space and where do we really, really hit home? The biggest reason is, is again going back to speed. So if my every month that place is vacant, it's like it's produce. It's once that time is gone, you don't make that money. So the faster they can get their their unit turned and get a new renter in there, the more attractive it is to a new renter. The other thing is, is like I told you that you know we can be out of the home in thirty minutes and you can you can then use the home. And that's because we use a product that we call Lightspeed. Which is a UV cured. So we have big UV lights and we come in here and we cure that. And what that does is, I mentioned something about oils, you know, the number one damaging thing to paint is human oil. And in a kitchen, that's really prevalent. But the other thing is, is this is designed with an incredible amount of, we call it elasticity. And that might even be the scientific term. I don't know. But it has elasticity to it. So if you, you could actually hit this door. Well, a pot, let's say, and you slam into it enough to damage the wood, the coating is elastic enough that it will still stretch and it won't peel and crack and come off. So it's, it's a really good product for high-use areas. We do a lot of common areas in like senior living communities.

Yes.

Because there's just so much traffic and they need to be able to maintain a really nice appearance but also take some abuse. So yes, that's one of the things like the, you know, really like to put that out there is because it's one of our huge things that we differentiate and we try to make your coating stronger than you would get even from a factory coating. And that allows us to do that with Lightspeed. And it's also because of the UV cure, we're able to get in and out of the home and get you into your home within half hour after we finish.

So just fabulous.

So rental properties, senior, uh, Senior living communities, common areas, as well as the individual units. All of those things are very expensive on a month-to-month basis. We can come in.

Yes.

3 days. They're usually very small kitchens, so it's even more like 1 to 2 days. We're usually in and out.

Exactly.

And then you're able to, you know, show that unit, like you said, photos and other things for the website, and really get that appeal. And so when someone's moving in, let's say, especially in the senior community, when they're moving in their mom into a space that's very, very costly every single month, They're going to want her to live in a space that is very nice, very comfortable, and well, well set up and situated. If they go in, it's a banged up kitchen, they're really going to have a hard time justifying the expense of that.

Correct. So, oh my gosh, yes, this is like huge. So Enhance is, is providing speed, a low-cost alternative to, um, a full-on remodel, and still allowing people to be creative enough to play around with colors for a couple of years. And if they want to change it, they can do it because of the lower cost and the time to get it done. And then it also keeps the kitchens available for use, which is huge.

I mean, so you named some of our 4 biggest things we really kind of talk about, and we're really just trying to adapt and change the way Americans think about their home.

You—

most people don't leave their bedroom the same color for 15 years. You don't have to do that with your kitchen either. You can go in and really intensely put your personality into it, and then if 2 years later you just realize your personality was a little off that year, boom, you can go back and knock it back out to something.

You can be somebody else. You can be somebody else with your cabinets. That's fantastic. Now, Chris, how do people learn more about N-Hance and yourself, and where can they find information to connect with you guys?

The easiest way is the website, is like most places, but it's just, you know, we have our Facebook presence and all those LinkedIn and all those other places if you want to find us there. But I would go to nhance.com, which would be N-H-A-N-C-E dot com. It's N as in Nancy, H-A-N-C-E. So Nhance with a capital N.

Perfect. And then we will include all of this information In the show notes. Chris, thank you so much for sharing this information. I really love bringing new concepts to homeowners that they may or may not be aware of, and they can make better decisions about managing their home.

Yeah, I love talking about it, Beth, and I really enjoyed it. And I just would highly encourage everyone to live a little, put some personality into your kitchen. Don't worry about the return as much, but we'll help you when we can on that area as well. But let's have fun.

Perfect. Well, thank you all for listening. Thank you for being here at Be a Smarter Homeowner Podcast. If you think this is valuable, please like it. Please share it with anyone else you think might find value in this who maybe needs, you know, cabinet refresh with enhance. And by all means, come back and see us again at our next episode on Be a Smarter Homeowner Podcast. Have a great day.

Thank you for listening to the Be a Smarter Smarter Homeowner Podcast. Visit BeASmarterHomeowner.com to sign up for our newsletter and find out more about software to help you save time, save money, and manage your home.