In this episode of the Influence Every Day Show, Dr. Ed Tori opens with a personal story about always choosing a restaurant booth that lets him see all the exits—a habit that traces back to his childhood at a pizza place. He uses this anecdote to introduce Jay Appleton’s 1975 Prospect and Refuge Theory, which posits that people feel most comfortable in spaces that provide both clear visibility of what’s coming (prospect) and a sense of safety or shelter (refuge). Dr. Tori argues that the same principles apply to high‑stakes interpersonal interactions such as difficult one‑on‑one conversations, meetings, and workshops. He explains how missing either prospect (clarity about direction and outcome) or refuge (psychological safety) can cause conversations to derail. The episode offers concrete tactics for embedding both elements: explicitly stating safety (“you’re not in trouble”), outlining the agenda and desired outcomes, and allowing participants to opt out of performance pressures. He frames these design choices as creating an “Eddie’s booth” for every conversation, ensuring leaders provide both visibility and security. The show closes with a call‑to‑action for listeners to share the episode and support the podcast.
This is Dr. Ed Tori. Welcome to the Influence Every Day Show, where we make every day better and we influence for good.
The other day I was out to dinner with my family. I was out with my wife, my 6 kids, and 3 of my kids are married, so it was with their spouses as well. And my wife motioned over to my son-in-law and said, "Oh, he's probably gonna wanna sit there. He always picks a seat where he needs to see all the exits." I looked over at him and I was like, "Yeah, I've been doing this my whole life." And right after those words left my mouth, I, for some reason, had this flashback to when my mom used to be a waitress. At a pizza place called Franzone's. And I remember being really little and sitting in a booth towards the back. I remember very specifically, I could see the entire restaurant. I had a side door that was exit only. There was a way to the back, to the kitchen, and then there was a way behind the counter, all from this one seat. So I could see everything. And I, I don't know why, but I had this sort of flashback to that moment. And I remember one of the waitresses that worked with my mom asking me, "Eddie, why do you always pick that seat? This is like your seat. I think we need to start saving it for you." And I said, "I just wanna see what's coming. I just wanna see what's coming." In 1975, an English geographer named Jay Appleton wrote a book called "The Landscape of Experience." "The Landscape of Experience." What does this have to do with friend zones, my kids, seeing all the exits, all this? In this book, he proposes a theory called Prospect and Refuge Theory. Now prospect is pro-spect, the ability to see what's coming, which reminded me of what I said to the other waitress, that I wanna see what's coming. You wanna have visibility, you wanna be able to see out. And refuge, you need some sort of security, some protection. You wanna feel like you're protected. You wanna feel some shelter. You wanna feel like you won't be ambushed. In the Prospect and Refuge Theory, it basically says that when spaces are designed, these two things need to be accounted for. That people like to feel refuge, feel safe, feel secure, and they like to be able to see outward. They like to be able to see what's coming. They like to be able to see what's going on, what's happening. They like to anticipate what could come their way. The concept of a window seat, a fireplace with a view, booths against the back wall, all of these things are designed. They are designed intentionally. When you are in a space and it just feels right, that architecture, that space, that setup, it was designed. Someone designed it and they designed it intentionally. And they probably had those two concepts in mind: prospect and refuge. It turns out that every conversation we have that is high stakes or difficult needs these two aspects as well. It needs prospect and it needs refuge. Now think about any hard one-to-one conversation you've ever had. It may have been a difficult conversation because of what the anticipated outcome was. Or it may have just been high stakes, right? High stakes, high emotion, or anticipating high emotion and high risk, high reward kind of thing. So a high stakes conversation. You've had those conversations time and time again, but you know those ones that go sideways and you don't even anticipate it? They just out of nowhere pivot. I would bet that if you were to look back, you were missing one of the two. You were missing refuge. Some people might call it psychological safety. That's one aspect of refuge, but you may have been missing it from your conversation. You may have been missing it even though you think you said the right thing. So if refuge isn't there, that can make things spin sideways because if somebody feels trapped or under attack, they behave differently. So refuge is really important. If perhaps they didn't know where this was going. In other words, the prospect, they couldn't see where this whole thing was going and they may have started to catastrophize or anticipate something far worse and then react to that. So when our one-on-one difficult conversations go sideways, oftentimes we're missing one of these two ingredients, prospect or refuge. So make sure you design them in, be intentional about them, and sometimes you may have to outwardly just come right out and say it. Like, especially with kids sometimes, look, you're not in trouble. I'm not upset with you. That's a way of establishing refuge. And in a meeting, you might say, look, this is where I think this is going to land. This is where we would like this to get to. That's a, this is where we're going. This is the endpoint. Now, in meetings, have you ever been in a meeting where it just doesn't feel safe? Like everyone's a little on edge and it seems the one chairing or running the meeting, either they want it that way or they don't recognize that that was good. That's what's going on. But we've all been in those meetings where it doesn't feel safe. That's a lack of refuge, right? We've also been in meetings that feel like they're like Buzz Lightyear to infinity and beyond. Like, where is this meeting going? When is this thing ending? What exactly are we walking away with? Why are we here? That's lack of prospect. Prospect and refuge, build them into your meetings. When I'm doing a workshop, sometimes I just come right out and say at the beginning, don't worry, you're not going to have to perform. Nobody's going to have to speak publicly if they don't want to. I establish it as a place of refuge, right? And then here's where we're going to land. Here's the skill you're going to have at the end of this. Here's what we're going to do. So that sort of. Provides the prospect of where it is. Going back to that experience I had as a child, me choosing that particular booth, Eddie's booth at the back of Franzone's. Guess what? Your difficult conversations need Eddie's booth at the back of Franzone's. Your hard one-to-one conversations with your kids, they need Eddie's booth at the back of Franzone's. And if you're chairing a meeting, running a meeting, your team needs Eddie's booth at the back of Franzone's. Can you design it in there? Absolutely. In architecture, it's the experience of landscape. What's the experience of leadership under you? What's the experience of a conversation with you? I'll see you in the next episode.
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