WELCOME TO UNFORGETTABLE PODCAST WITH Eric Edmeades

Do you struggle with fear, doubt and worry in your public speaking? Do you find it difficult to connect with your audience and deliver presentations that leave a lasting, positive, unforgettable impact? If yes, then let's dive in the world of public speaking and presentation skills with your host, Eric Edmeads. Welcome to the Unforgettable Podcast.

My name is Eric Edmies, and I am absolutely thrilled to be bringing bringing this podcast to you. I'm thrilled because, frankly, becoming comfortable and confident with public speaking has impacted my life in immeasurable ways, both professionally and personally. The things that I've been able to achieve in my life have been upgraded in every way possible by overcoming my fears as a speaker and then developing some skills in those areas. And so this podcast is for anybody who's interested in becoming more comfortable, more confident with speaking, whether it's one on one, whether it's one on many or thousands, or one on a camp. So I'm really glad to be bringing this podcast to you. We're going to have a whole lineup of incredible guests, great clinics, and just fabulous information. And we're going to start that tradition today by introducing my co host, David T.S. wood. David's a really, really good friend of mine, and I want you to know why he's here with me. And that is that many years ago, I went to an event, and I went to the event with huge anticipation. I was expecting a speaker to be there. And when I arrived, the speaker took the stage. Only it wasn't the speaker. It was David T.S. wood instead. And I gotta tell you, I don't know how long I was planning to stay. This wasn't the guy I came to see. But that feeling and that hesitation lasted for about four minutes because David, casting spells, he was incredibly good. He was magnetic, he was funny, he told excellent stories. And the next thing you know, three and a half days had gone by in a heartbeat. And years and years later, David and I would end up joining a mastermind together and becoming really good friends. And we started strategizing about stuff, and it became clear that we wanted to both bring some powerful skills and strategies and a powerful message about speaking out to the world. And so that's what the Speaker Nation podcast is all about. And that's why I'm here with David today. David, welcome.

Hey, thanks, Eric. Yeah. What a journey. And, you know, I want to say something just because I've worked with so many trainers around the world and speakers, and watching you is something to think that you started in never wanting to do this. It Wasn't your path, you thought, but truly one of the best in the world. So I'm honored to be here. And we're gonna have a lot of fun with this. So we are.

No question about it. I. I'm curious about a couple of things because in some ways I feel like we had some huge similarities. Like, you know, we both have this sort of travel bug, and I think speaking has been a big part of that for us. But we also both started off comfortable with the whole thing. But you had a very different reason for not. I just had a general fear. I was just phobic. That's it. But if I remember correctly, you had like, you had an event.

An event, yeah, let's call it an event. Well, you know, growing up in England like I did and leaving home at 15, I spent a lot of time in pubs. And so I was a joke teller. That's how I got in. That's how I made friends, was through humor. So I thought I was all right in front of a room. And about 20, 23, 25 years ago, I was asked to emcee a wedding in a small town. And it happened to be one of my best friend's sisters, so we had all the same friends. And I emceed this wedding. At the end of it, the groom side of the family all stood up, and they all came from the US up to Canada. They stood up and they left the wedding. They didn't come to the party, and some of them didn't speak to him for an entire year. So I. I was total public humiliation in a way I can't even describe, but understanding it. And the only thing I could do was run. I actually left the country and I went to Europe for three weeks because I couldn'. Anybody. I didn't speak to the group about it for a year and a half. That's how terrible it was. And the one thing I knew for sure, Eric, I would never ever stand in front of a room again. I was done. Right.

So it is a risky business.

Yes.

You know, standing in front and by the way, and I'm sure we'll end up with more than one episodes about the riskiness of political correctness and what you can and can't talk about. But there is a risk when you stand in front of an audience and if you get it wrong, ostracization is a real thing, even if it's self imposed.

Well, what I didn't realize, you know, because the groom was the one who asked me and he said, don't do Anything conventional. But a wedding isn't about the groom. That were the weddings about the mother of the bride and the grandmother of the bride and the grandparents. And. And I didn't get all that. I didn't understand the audience and I didn't understand the audience's needs. I was playing to him and a few of his drunken mates. Right. And that was the. That was a. Well, again, it changed my life because I wouldn't be here right now. Right.

You were doing a pub act.

A pub act, exactly. Yeah.

Now, I want to build on that with. I want to go into some. But I can't. I can't avoid. One of the most powerful lessons I think you ever learned on stage. And that has something to do with where you're. Your chair is relative to the back. Tell us about that.

Why do you remember these?

I just.

I don't know.

It just. It just.

Yeah, this is. This was. I mean, there was a lot of things. When I decided to pursue this, what happened was I walked into an event. I didn't plan it. My. My marriage wasn't going well, and my previous wife, who happens to be one of my close friends, she'd asked if we could go to this personal development program. And this is where I saw a master at work. And this is where the light bulb went off halfway through the second day. I'm like, this is what I gotta. This is what I was called to do. It's like, you know, what do they say that old saying is, you know, the. The two most important days of your life. The day you're born, the day you discover why. And so I pursued this and in my learning stage, where I'm practicing and feedback from that stage, which is such an essential part of this growth, the journey to. To find your voice. I was 1600 people. It's my first real event where I'm running it. And back then, we didn't have LED lights. We had these great big hot stage lights. And I took my jacket off and I'm. I'm in the middle of a sale as well. I'm selling. And I took my jacket off and I put it on big chair at the back, and it caught fire and the jacket catches fire and it blows all of the lights in the entire place. So it goes dark and I. Anyway, so that was, yeah, one of my early foo pars.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Well, you know, anything you undertake in life, it's. It's going to have learning, learning opportunities.

Isn't it interesting, though, Eric? And you get. This is every single One of those things where at the moment felt horrendous, but now they just, they're not only just great stories, but the resilience and the grit and the understanding and the experience. I wouldn't go back and change one. One of those. Even though at the moment when all those lights blew, I'm like, oh, no, here we go again.

Right. You're gonna have to leave the country. Can't talk to the groom. Yeah, yeah. You know, one of the things I found once I did get over, overcome my fear and I started speaking, I found something really fascinating is that your life experiences, the stories of your life are inventory. And then when you find yourself in an adverse situation, you realize you're building inventory.

Right.

So I, I like, I've had some, you know, things happening where I'm in the middle of. Felt like my life was in danger, but there's a little part of me going, but this isn't going to be a great story. And that, that's interesting because what ends up happening then is you realize I can't. Can't control the externals of the story, but I can choose my response.

Yeah.

And. And I think becoming a speaker really helped me with that.

Yeah, I teach a lot on that, you know, and it's, it's really interesting to become a story collector now. And you kind of, you know, it's not that you look forward to these things happening, but when they happen, like you say, I hear that voice, oh, my gosh, like I got stuck in an elevator for three hours. I tell that story so often on stage. Right. Because it's my response. Exact. You said I didn't react to it. I responded to it. But, you know, in the time I'm laying there, you know, and I've got flip flops over my eyes, I'm trying to sleep in there because I'm stuck in an elevator. Right. Alone. I always had the fantasy I'd be with someone, but I wasn't. Right. But. But during it, I was thinking, oh, this is going to be good later on. Right.

So earlier this year. Well, let me go back a few more years. I. When I first started getting inspired about speaking, I was looking for metaphors and teaching things. And I was talking to a buddy of mine, very experienced speaker, very well known out there making things happen. And I used the oxygen mask metaphor at one point. I just used the, you know, you've got to put your own auction. And he gave me feedback at the end of my presentation. He goes, eric, it's so cliched. Like everybody. You shouldn't use that. It's so cliched. It's so cliched. Funny enough, about six months ago, my girlfriend and I are on a plane and we're about an hour flying across the Atlantic, we're about an hour short of Ireland, and alarms start blaring and the plane goes into a sharp dive and oxygen masks drop from the ceiling. We're dying. Like, we are absolutely certain that we're going to die. And what happens for me, weirdly, is I go into this, I don't know, like, recording mode. Like, if I survive this, this is going to be a great story. But what was interesting is, is that I saw the family in front of me, and it was a mother and a father and two very young children, maybe 18 months and three years, something like that. And the kids were asleep when the plane went into the dive. And we dropped something like 30,000ft in four and a half minutes or something like that. It was like. It was. It was scary. And the father grabbed his oxygen mask, he put it on his face, and then he started wrestling with his kids to put the auction mask on. And for the first time in my life, I truly understood that. Met. We all use it, we all talk about it, we all say, it's important to put your mask on. But as I watched that father having to forcibly hold the oxygen mask on his child to save his life, I realized if he didn't have his mask on, it was over for everybody. And it was really interesting that it shows the power of the difference between just saying, put your own oxygen mask on before you help others, and living through it and then having the story to tell.

Yeah. I find that with quotes, people who put quotes on social media, and I say, why don't you tell me a story about how you used a quote? Don't post the quote. But I find that it's interesting when I go back back to the public humiliation. If I hadn't had that experience, I don't think I'd understand because I work with a lot of people helping them break through that fear. And it doesn't matter the size of it or how big it was or what happened. It could be the tiniest incident that happened years and years and years ago. But people feeling that same feeling, I felt understanding it like you do now. But hearing that story from your family that was in the plane, that was incredible to hear that, you know, because it was real. They thought they were. This is it. Right?

It was. It was real. It was very real. Authenticity you say, you know, somebody wants to publish a quote, but why not? They share a personal experience. And I, I really, I'm with you on that. There's, it's, it's like social media has become this cut and paste perfect life game instead of a share authentically from your life experience. And there's a. I'm sure you've heard this joke, but it's my favorite little joke about this is you have this young poli sci student has an opportunity to meet this old grizzled multi term congressman in, in America. And he goes up to the guy and he says, I'm a poli sci student and I aspire to the highest office in the land. Do you have any advice for me? And the old grizzled senator, he was, well son, you got to watch that there social media, you know, the stuff you're posting now, that's going to come back and bite you. So you got to be careful. And the kids like, I'm totally careful. I don't go to those parties. I don't post stuff. I'm really, I'm curating my social media now for my political life. Do you have any other advice for me? And the old grizzled senator says, well, son, honesty, integrity, authenticity, once you can fake that stuff, you know, the truth is you and I both know you can't. You can try to fix that kind of stuff, but you really can. The audience really can tell. And when I said in the introduction, and I genuinely feel this about you, there are many, many speakers and there are many, many good speakers but there are not many truly authentic world class speakers. And I regard you as one. And I'm, I'm curious how you feel about that or what, where does it come from? What, what makes you want to be that way? Because it's pretty vulnerable.

Yeah. Yeah. It's interesting because you know, when you, I struggle with this whole idea of the. I don't even like using the word fame. Right. I'm not interested in that at all. However, you know, I like the stage as a metaphor of life, you know, because I always say to my students, I say, you know, you bring yourself with you to the stage, so however you're living your life is going to show up there because like you said, the audience can smell it on you when you're not being authentic. And it's got, I think it's got even, you know, more authenticity is more important today than it's ever been.

Yeah.

You know, and that's why watching you work with your students. And I mean, again, I've never seen a trainer work as hard with students and as long and as deep as you. You do. I mean, that commitment is.

Is.

Is something I have never witnessed before. So I want to commend you on that. But that's sometimes what it takes for people to find themselves. Because I think, you know, as people go through life, you know, we're taught to put masks on at every single juncture with our parents. I mean, I've surveyed. I've trained over a million people personally, and I've surveyed the rooms all over the world and asked, you know, tell me the. The area you wear the mask the most, and it's with their parents, family members. Right. So I think that, you know, this journey, the stage, whether someone's looking to become a speaker or trainer or just they want to be, you know, really discover their full humanity, I think the stage is the perfect place to do that. That's why I love what we're doing with Speaker Nation.

Yeah.

I think it's the opportunity to really rip these masks off and show up unapologetically. That's another word. I really like that. It's like, you know, we don't swear here, but you know what I'm saying.

Yeah, I know the other version.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

It's. There's a. An instinct, I believe, that humans have, and that instinct is that you would prefer to have in proximity, near you an authentic enemy than an inauthentic friend.

Yeah.

And I think that's a very important principle. It's. It. There is something about the predictability of authenticity. Once you know who somebody is, it's like you don't have to guess about them anymore. And I think that's a really powerful thing. And I think it's particularly important if you're hoping to have any kind of influence. Because if you're standing there and. And by the way, the way I look at it is it doesn't really matter what somebody's doing on stage. Trying to raise money, entertaining, educating, trying to get them to buy a book, sell something. I mean, all of that is some kind of influence. And I feel that there's a good chunk of that audience with strong emotional intelligence, and they have this, like, sense when something's off.

Yeah.

And the best way to not have them feel that way is to just be yourself, really, truly, you. Unapologetic.

Well, it's interesting because one of the sayings. I like writing. Right. Sayings. Rather than just talking about them, but is, you know, everyone's waiting for someone else to go first. Right. And I think that once we discover the power of authenticity and true authenticity, which is where you. There isn't two of you, there's one of you.

Yeah.

And there's, of course, the risk is that people don't like it. People find truth really, really hard. Right. And so when we live in a world of truth, like you and I do, you know, it's. Not everyone's going to love it, but that's part of being authentic, is understanding that. That journey. But. And you, you know, you were at a party at my house the other night, and you can see it doesn't take when. When I'm willing to go first, when I'm willing to show up unapologetically and authentically, it spreads so fast because other people realize it's safe.

Yeah.

So. And that's the same with an audience, I think. When a trainer comes on stage and they truly are transparent. I like the idea of transparency. You know, there's no hidden corners. There's nothing I'm hiding. There's no closet, you know, with cobwebs in that I'm pretending isn't there. If I need to go there, I can. I won't go there all the time, but sometimes I have to go there.

Right.

But then what I did, I think it does. It gives the audience permission to truly rip off their own mess and say, you know what? This is just a better way to live. Right.

I think a lot about alcohol in this context. I have no judgment about alcohol. I just. Matter of fact, I have many friends that are much better friends after one or two glasses of alcohol. But I make that joke because in a sense, alcohol does for people, is it allows them to let their guard down and kind of be themselves. And what I'm thinking is, isn't it great when you can do it without. Yeah. Isn't it great when you can stand on a stage and just, you know. And look, Brene Brown, I mean, you know, for years she went out speaking and having a profession around that, and one day she made a difference. She's like, you know what? I'm going to use storytelling, and I'm going to speak from a position of vulnerability. And if I remember the way she describes this in her Netflix special, she basically says that when. When the video went up on YouTube, she's like, why is this on YouTube? And then it had like 60 views, and she's like, that's 60. Way too many more people watching you take it down 600, 6000. Then it goes up to like, what, 50 million views or something like that. And why did the other videos not. Because for the first time, she had really used personal storytelling and actual vulnerability, which is authenticity.

Yeah.

Powerful stuff.

That's the other thing about your skill set, you know, yours. And again, I'm not blowing smoke here, you know, truly one of the greatest storytellers I've ever listened to. And watching you work over five days in Europe recently and how you captivate, but also how you can transfer those skills, you know, really allowing people to understand that level of communication. So I just want to touch on that. But I also want to go back to something you said. Influence. Because there's the influence on stage, right. Which is, you know, the selling and moving the audience and all those kinds of things. But I actually think, you know, you know, influence is something that happens every minute of every day and, you know, influencing our kids, influencing our street, influencing our neighbor. You know, so there's this. That when we live in a world, I think that once we step into this, the speaker nation philosophy, I think influence is everywhere. The opportunity to influence in a powerful, positive, kind, loving, open way. Right.

I think there's a very good point about that, and that is that you are always influencing. The question is, what?

Right.

And, you know, so, for example, if somebody is on stage and they're all manicured and perfect and chiseled and. And it's fake, they're still influencing. It just might not be getting the result they actually want. There's something about that. Authentic influence.

Yeah. Someone said something years ago, and I can't give credit for it because I can't remember who it was, but they said, you know, at all times, you're either affecting people or infecting them. At all times, you're doing one or the other. Right. So.

So let's talk a bit about this. You, of course, you had this, you know, this event, and justifiably, the event. Justifiably, you became phobic of public speaking and weddings probably, too. But there, you know, there then came this point where you said, hey, I want to go out and do this. What happens now? Like, how do you. How do you. One of the most common questions I get when I'm on podcast interviews or when I'm out in public, one of the most common questions I get is, how did I get my first audience? How did I. How did I break out? How did you do that?

Yeah, I did it differently to you, and I love your story. And we'll Go into that another time. For me, it was kind of like a decision. I made a choice. I realized that I was hiding. I'd been living for three years with this pain, and I was hiding from it, and that wasn't my character. But the event was so traumatic for me and so embarrassing, and I. I just didn't know how to cope with it. I didn't know how to deal with it. So I avoided it. It was just, you know, head in the sand. I pretended it wasn't there. I was hanging. It wasn't that I wasn't seeing this groom. I just. We played on the same hockey team, right? I just didn't talk about it. However, when I saw this, kind of. And I say master at work, and I use that word lightly because I think we're all in the. Even you. I learn as much from watching you, and I think we're all in a. Mastery is not something I ever want to hit. It's always that continuous opening. I learned as much from my students as well. You're the same, right? Teachers. I always use that term. Teacher, student, student, teacher. However, once I saw this guy work, I walked up to him and I said, hey, I want to teach this. And he said, of course you do. And he said, but you'd have to do all my programs before he could even ask me the question. And luckily, I just sold a company, and so I took a year off, and I did 13. I mean, I'd done two personal development programs my whole life, and Now I did 13 in one year. And when I went to him at the end of the year, he says, no. He says, you're never going to be on my stage, right? And you know who I'm talking about. I'm not going to use any terms there. And I was, like, enraged. I'd put in everything I could. So I volunteered. And I followed him around the world, volunteering. And I did everything. I cleaned toilets. But I just knew this was the path, and I was willing to do whatever it took. And I was modeling him. And I would go home and I'd practice. Now I wish I'd had an audience to practice with. I wish I'd had a group of friends. I didn't really realize the power of that feedback. So what I do is I'd film myself doing a piece, and I'd wait 24 hours, and then I'd watch it. And I had to find three things I liked about it. And one thing I wanted to improve. And I kept doing that, but I kept looking at it not just through a critical eye, but, gosh, can you imagine what it'd been like if, you know, I'd had you there? Because I remember Robert Kiyosaki and one of the teachers I trained with, they used to meet every, I think, once a week, and they would practice great speeches, you know, And I don't say he's a, you know, I'm not talking about his skill as a public speaker, but just the idea that some of these great people do have these practice masterminds where they work on their skills. And I just kept doing it. And I said to him, I actually, these are my words. I said to him, I said, you know what? I'm going to be ready one day. You're going to be sick and you're going to call me. And he got really, really sick. He had the worst flu. He couldn't. And he had an event with 1600 people in New York and he phoned me. He says, get you. It's like, get you going. And that's where I set fire to my jack. So that was my first step out. Right.

So, but I, I think when he told you, could you go out there and just set them on fire for me? I think you. You maybe didn't get it right. Set the world on fire.

Right.

And then where did you take that, like, professionally? Like, where did you. Where did you go after that? From a. Speaking.

You know, I. I realized once I realized it was my path, I. And because I opened this door and I was you, you know, that's when I saw you. When you met me the first time. Yeah, I was running those programs for somebody else. And. And because all the stories were authentic, I backpacked around the world for ten and a half years. So I had stories and I'd built three companies, so I had these. I had lots of real stories. And I saw other trainers up there telling stories that just weren't true, you know, or pretending to be rich when they weren't. Right. And so it was. For me, it was a question of believing. I believed that personal growth was a path that everyone. Because I'd gone through this transformation personally. But then I realized that, you know, it just wasn't enough because our. The company I was working with. And again, this isn't a slant on the. It was a business about. It was a money business and we were selling something. But it wasn't necessarily about the journey of the students. Really. Really. You know, when a student enters the front door that they're in a culture, in a nation, let's say or tribe that they can continue to expand and grow in all different areas of their life that impacts them as parents, as friends, as, you know, lovers, all these. And so that's what I realized was missing. So that's when I kind of branched out on my own. I realized, you know, I'm going to write programs and I'm going to create relationships with students that are lifetime relationships. It's not just about a transactional relationship. It's about once you step into this world, we're going to continue to grow and expand and discover the best parts of ourselves. Right?

Yeah. Yeah, that's very, very true. You know that I'm a believer that anyone, and I mean anyone, is one well constructed and well delivered talk away from a major upgrade in whatever it is they're doing. It might mean that they raise money for their company or that they get a book deal or a TV deal or that they get an agent or any of those types of things. Like very often one talk can change everything. Like the Brenny Brown example I used before. Can you think. I'm sure you've had many of those, but can you think of a talk that changed the world for you?

Yeah, I mean I talk. I suppose the. Because you and I have these, the world. I'm. Because I think more like a trainer speaker. Right. So. So more of an event, I suppose is that. I suppose that first one. And it was. But the preparation, I won't pretend. Again, watching you with your students, I saw it clearly how hard I worked and watching you help people find and discover the ability to have that one talk, that one story which is so powerful. And I think what it was is when I stepped out on that stage, I mean it was the scariest thing in the world. I mean I hadn't had a two. It's a two and a half day event. Not only that, but there was these, there were these sales that had to happen. And we're talking about $2 million worth of sales were expected from the event.

However, like if you did 2 million, nobody was patting you on the back. They're like, you did the bare minimum.

Bare minimum. Bare minimum. Right. However, I think what it was, was realizing when I told those stories, every one of them, you know, were, were real and true.

Yeah.

And I was learning the skills, but I'd put so much time into modeling and feedback and modeling and feedback that I was ready. I didn't know how ready I was. But the results, the fact I think we did 2.2 million that weekend My very, very first time on stage was a testimony. So I think that was my moment where I kind of like, you know, I took a breath and I was like, oh my gosh, you know, what? If, if I can keep working on discovering myself and bringing that with the truth, you know, my truth to the stage, but with the skills. Because the skills are part of it.

Yeah.

And each one of the things that people want can be learned. But you see it. I mean, how often do you see. I mean, I was flown to India recently for the. It was for the top 50 CEOs of India to do a one hour. I can't believe this.

Right.

But there was someone up there before me who was a futurist who did a one hour talk and I was falling asleep. It was just. He was just on autopilot with no understanding about the culture, the people, the, you know, so he just kept doing the same thing everywhere. That's not what we're talking about. Speaking nation's not that. It's not. It's not having a shtick and going up there and doing that. It's about bringing something that is, like you say, transformational internally and externally.

Right. It's a funny thing, David, but I. People often ask me about, you know, what the opportunities are like as a speaker, and I, you know, and of course, it's very contextual to what they want to achieve. If they're an author, they should definitely be speaking. Well, frankly, if they're a tech entrepreneur, they should definitely be speaking. But there's a sign, there's a sign that the opportunity is huge. And that is any conference you've ever been to. I mean, how many conferences have you been to where most of the speakers were slow and droll and boring and you're wanting to leave the room. Like, I often will go to a conference and I take a seat on the style, you know, just so that way if I want to leave, it's not so disruptive. I don't mean that in a judgmental way. I mean it in an opera, in an opportunistic way. And that means that it's not that big transition to become compelling and unforgettable on stage. Because so many people take. I was speaking at an event in, I think it was Sweden about eight or nine years ago, and the headliner, she was the headliner in a sense. When promoters are putting events together, they have two, you know, two kind of scorings that they give. The one is how famous you are, because that's gonna help sell tickets and the other one is how good you are. And she was like a, she was as famous, but as a speaker, she was like, say a four out of five, like not very good. And she got up and she's literally a billionaire and self made and an incredible woman. And when you hang out with her backstage, you just, you'd love to spend like days with her talking. But on stage, on stage I was like, could somebody please just drag their nails down the chalkboard because that might be nicer.

Poke me in the eye with a pad. It was.

And you know, as she came off the stage and one of my team came up and said, what did you think of that? And I go, do you really want to know? Like, you know, why don't you go talk to her about it? That's what they said to me. Why don't you go talk to her about it? You could help her. You could really help her. I'm like, I don't have the right to do that. Like, I am. I don't walk up and offer unsolicited coaching to somebody. But I realized something, and this is a big part of what Speaker Nation's all about, in my opinion. What I realized was, is that she had reached a level of recognition in her words world, that the people around her had become afraid of telling her the truth. Yeah. And so she came off the stage and they're all patting her on the back going, well done, well done. And so she kept getting positive reinforcement for a very lackluster performance. And I think one of the things that's been really valuable to me in my life, and I'm certain it has for you, is having those people around to tell you the truth, that, you know, if you could make it better, they'll tell you how.

Yeah, you know, I'm. When my trainers come upstage or speakers come upstage, you know, the first thing, some of them are looking for that feedback right away. And I won't give it to them there. I'll say, just be in the moment, feel it. And then when I do speak to them, I said, just tell me, what's your feedback? What's the feedback you'd give yourself? How do you feel? And then I'd give them some real feedback, you know, however, it's so important because, you know, because it is a path, this is a journey.

Right.

And we do get better. But like you say, I think getting stuck and because you're surrounded, I think that's why. Again, going back to our feedback piece, why feedback is so essential and if Again, when we work even, you know, we talked about that when we debriefed you. And I wasn't even at the event really. I just came along and I was, as a friend, but, you know, you're open to say, hey, you know, what would you do? How would you do this? Or whatever. And you, you told me that story about Tony Robbins too, right? Oh, tell that story. That's such a great story.

You know, the short version of it was that I had done my very first event with him, and it was a private business mastery event in Fiji for about 200 of the wealthiest CEOs and business owners in China that had come to Fiji for this thing. And, and I, I, and I hadn't done any speaking for about three years, so I shouldn't have agreed to do this. This is insane. But I did the event and I was on stage for about three and a half hours. And Tony stayed for the whole event and his team said that he wouldn't do that, but I, I created some attraction. He stayed, he watched the whole thing. And two days later I was having lunch with him in his house. And you know, they said, oh, Tony wants to have lunch with you. And I'm thinking, yeah, this is gonna be 15 minute lunch. I know, I've heard about it like you, but no, I. There for four and a half hours. And the first 35, 40 minutes, all he did was praise. He just, he was so excited about the way I presented. And I think part of it was he was relieved, honestly, like I was an emergency fill in speaker because the other speaker had sadly passed away. A good friend of mine and Tony's. And then the other speakers couldn't make it. And so he, he wasn't so excited about me being there. But then when I really rocked it, he was so. I think part of his excitement was just relief. True, truly. But. But for 35 or 40 minutes he was on. I love the way you did this and then you did that and then you moved this way. And I loved the metaphor that used about that. Engage the people. And then the way. And he was going on and on and on and on. I feel like I'm going to explode. Like, I can't take anymore. I said, tony, I can't. Thank you. I just can't. Like that's. Thank you. I can't take any more. And then he was like, no, okay. And then I said, but there is one thing I'd like to know. And he's like, what? And I said, how can I make it even Better. And he, his eyes, he went well and he grabbed my journal. He's like, when you do this. And he gave me this like football field metaphor and you carry the ball down this way. And he coached me. And I don't know how many people have ever been lucky enough to get like private coaching from Tony Robbins on their speaking skills. But it was a special moment. Moment. But what I noticed about him was that his, he, he, he started with praise. He had no need or desire to give me the improvement feedback until I asked for it. Impressive.

Yeah. Very, very. It's such a great journey. It really is.

Yeah. So how about this? Now I know what this is like for me. So I'm curious for you, but I want to know, like, what gives you goosebumps when you're on stage?

I always think my look, your fans are in the front and they're the people that love you. You can't do any wrong. They run when they run. Right. And for me, it's the people in the back corners that have been dragged there with their arms fold. And I always teach my trainers, we train, we train to the back corners. We don't train to the fan base. Right. And it's watching that there, there are two parts and I'm actually getting goosebumps as I'm talking about it. Watching those arms unfold and somebody who was ready to leave at any minute, watching them unfold and not just become a part because they were so resistant, they come so far are. It's almost like, you know, the journey they take is more than you can ever imagine anyone else in the room taking. Right. Because they were already out the door. One foot was out the door and the other is this. I have a lot of kids show up at my event. Parents. I encourage parents to bring their kids with especially my larger events. Right. Because moms can't always afford babysitters or whatever is how often the kids will come up and sit on stage because they feel such trust. And you'll see I've got tons and tons of photographs. You know, there'll be six or seven kids or little kids will wander up, four or five year olds and wander up and just while I'm training and they'll just come and sit on the stage and they'll just be there. And those are moments because I think what that, that language, you know, when, when a child or a young teen or a, a 10 year old sits through two and a half or three days and they want to come up and hang out.

Yeah.

That in fact Someone sent me a photograph. I'll show it to you afterwards. Of that exact thing where I'm on stage training and this little girl, she looks like she's five, is just standing on the stage and she's shaking my hand. Right. I think those are the moments because I think that is the real truth.

Truth.

The rest of it, when people love you, you know, that's a fan base and that's great, and they're having a great time. But I don't think it. For me, it's not how I read the room.

Yeah, yeah, I get that. I, I think the way I often think about it is those, those people that are in the, in the front rows that ran in to be there, and they're great to have.

Yeah.

But one of the reasons they're great to have is to reach the other ones. Yeah, it's, it's so that the other people who are skeptical are going, well, those people look very excited, so there must be something here. And that's, that's, that's, that's, that's important. Golden rules. Do you have any golden rules? Like, you know, somebody comes up, he says, tell me two things I need to know about being a speaker. What are your golden rules?

Well, you know, again, I think we've touched on one, which is that authenticity piece is. Is, you know, is. Is to truly. I always say, you know, whoever you are with your very best friend, when there's nothing, be that person. There's skills you can learn. But being who you really are are. And showing up as you are without any of the fake or, you know, and I know in the beginning, when you're learning a skill, it feels fake. It's not because all it is, is, you know, if you're being in your truth and you're learning a skill, you know, once you get the skill, then the truth and the skill live together. But in the beginning, they're kind of in two parts, so it does feel like you're being a bit fake, but I get that. And the other one for me is the audience is the star. You know, I think that I've always struggled with that. You know, just because you're on the stage, you know, to be, to truly be a student. Student and, and understand that that audience really is the star. The, the person in the room is the star, not you. And, and to come in with that humility and understanding is that, you know, there's people in the audience who are great plumbers. Now, if I'm a great speaker, it doesn't make me a great, a greater person. That guy's a great plumber. I'm a great speaker. It just, we have different skills. And he could teach me a lot about plumbing or she could. And I could teach him a lot about speaking. Right.

So I remember hearing Jim Rohn, who was a huge impact on me as a young man. I remember hearing him. He's. He's standing up on the stage, looking out at the audience, and he says, he goes, the only reason I'm up here is because I arranged this. Every single one of you sitting out there have stories and life experiences which could be unbelievably valuable if only I could have the opportunity to hear them. And I think that I, I look at every audience like that. It's, it's exactly that, that I just happen to be the one on the stage at the moment. But every single person, every single person has life experiences, stories, lessons, and perspectives are of infinite value to the right audience. And I think that's important thing to know. Yeah, so somebody's starting off and they're tuning into our podcast because presumably they've come to the podcast because they want to learn more about speaking, presenting, speechwriting, influence, you know, personal branding around being a speaker, maybe writing books, all that kind of stuff. What would you say to somebody who's really kind of early days, starting off, and they, they, they really want to up level their game. They want to become a great speaker. What are some things they can do?

Well, I think, you know, the fact they're listening to this, I, I always sell, you know, there's that fact they're really here right now listening to us speak is they're in the right place. And the fact that because of, you know, your experience and my experience, and I think what Speak A Nation stands for, I think there is a path. And the, the path is for them particularly is what is the next step? Because I think growth is something, you know, when we grow, when we expand, it gives life meaning and purpose and joy. You know, if you go and sit on the couch for a month. A lot of people did that last couple of years. Right. They didn't feel very great. But I think that part of life is about developing and feeling that, you know, that going to bed. I like the 1% rule. I love the idea if I could be 1% better in different areas of my life. It's not this massive transformation, but I think that's just coming in with that student mind and looking at, you know, whatever your personal goals, dreams and desires are. Right now, once you take that next step, it's like, you know, when you climb a mountain, I mean, you and I, you know, we've climbed Kilimanjaro, you Many, many times. And, you know, when you get to a vista, you know, suddenly another vista shows. And I think that's what happened to me, is taking that first step and going all in and being open to the process. And then suddenly there are people listening right now that have no intention of writing a book. They have no intention of doing a TED Talk there. However, there's a. We saw this in Estonia. There are people who would have never thought in a thousand years that they would ever have a TED Talk. And the skills and the ability and because of. And their passion, suddenly their voice came out, and they're as good as some. Many of the greats in the world already. Right?

Yeah. You know, the new vista, it's a very important distinction because one of the things I've seen with people is they, you know, they go and they set their goals, and then they hear somebody else's goals, and they feel diminished by that. They're like, oh, my goal was to speak in front of, you know, 500 people, and then they hear that somebody else spoke in front of 5,000 people, and they feel diminished by that. Or, you know, the TED Talk example. And you remember Nilima from, From Estonia in the speaking academy. She had had no real sense of voice. She certainly didn't have any big, lofty goals. As I understand it, in the four or five months since she won that competition, she went from 150 followers on Instagram to 40,000 followers just because her storytelling became so good in four or five months. Now, though, when you ask her about her goals, new vistas, Very, very new vistas. She's. She's seeing it from a new height. And I think that's. I think the everlasting student does that. You know, I, I. People have often asked me, like, you know, I, I had this experience. I came back and did a live event after two years of hiatus, the, the pandemic and what have you. And a couple of my, you know, I guess suppose fans or clients or what have. You came up and said, eric, you. You've had no PR practice for two years. And that was even better. And I'm like, well, the minute I stop hearing that, then I may as well stop. I always want to make it better. So I know we share that. That's a.

We do something you just said. It was very nuanced, but I want people and want people to understand. That is a lot of my students have become really good friends. And I think that's part of when you really have something special, you know, because you said that a moment ago, that there is this nuance that the journey, these are real relationships. It's not just another course. It's not, you know, it's not just selling something. It's about the journey. And because of the journey, I watched you interact with those students and saw the depth of connection. And I'm not saying they're all going to be at your house or anything. However, there's a real. A real honest and deep connection of humanity, which I think makes a difference. It makes a difference on what Speaker Nation really is and what some other things are, which is really a business. This is more than that. Right.

So absolutely is. David. This has been, you know, I've been excited about this for a very long time, both generally Speaker Nation, but also getting this podcast to people. And this conversation has only increased my level of excitement about it. So thank you for being here and thank you for joining me on this mission. It's going to be a whole lot of fun.

Exactly.

Thank you all for. For listening and for being here with us on the first ever episode of the Speaker Nation podcast. We will continue to bring you outstanding examples of great speaking skills and. And perspectives and ideas and strategies. We're going to be doing a number of breakdowns of speeches. We're going to show you some really compelling speeches and explain to you what we think was really great about them and maybe also what could have been even better. And we're just going to keep bringing. Bringing you the very best information to help you to achieve what you want to achieve as a speaker presenter or as a human being. So thanks so much for tuning in, and I'll see you in the next episode.

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