54 Minutes to Realize You Can Do THIS in Your Life

We all have these ideas. I want to start a podcast. I want to be a speaker. The successful people, they're not smarter than you. Often they're probably stupider than you. They just start. All the successful people that we profiled, whether they're entrepreneurs or athletes or musicians or artists, the people at the top of their field, if you don't believe in your— the abilities to figure it out, right? The belief that tomorrow you don't have to be in the same spot that you are today, even when it doesn't look like it. If your family's not doing it, your friends aren't doing it, the people you know aren't doing it, who are you to be this crazy guy going off and changing the world and doing amazing things? The belief that you could be way bigger than you are right now. That is consistent across all the people that we profiled. Because you look at where people came from, chances are your hero started with less than what you already have right now. The people you look up to started with less than what you already have right now. If they can do it, what's your reason for not doing it?

Here live with Evan Carmichael.

Let's go, man.

Let's go. Sunny Toronto, Canada. My first time visiting.

Really? Yeah. Not that sunny. It's December, but I guess—

I was kidding about the sunny.

Okay. Okay. It's like what, 20-something degrees?

I don't speak American. In US temperature.

Yeah, I don't know what that is.

Anyways, it's freezing. You can see your breath.

It's about, I think, just around freezing. Yeah, just around freezing right now. Yeah, it's freezing.

Went to a Tim Hortons.

Come back in February. Oh, you went to Tim's? I went to Tim's.

I went to Tim's, was a big fan.

What did you get? I got a fail.

Big fan.

Oh, big fan.

I got bacon, egg, and cheese on a, on a something, on some bread. And I got a French vanilla latte.

Oh wow, you went sweet.

Okay, I didn't realize it was going to be that sweet.

It's sweet. French vanilla is going to rot your teeth.

Yeah, that was a lot of sugar. Yeah, but I will say it was delicious. Yeah, big fan of Tim Hortons. For those Americans listening to this, Tim Hortons is like a Wawa meets a Dunkin' Donuts meets Starbucks.

Better quality food.

The coffee was good.

Yeah, it's the working man Starbucks here. Tim Horton was a very famous hockey player in Canada, and he partnered with Ron Joyce and they made, they made the franchise. But it's like, you're either a Starbucks person or you're a Tim Hortons person.

Okay, do you have Dunkin' Donuts here?

No.

What are you? Are you a Starbucks person or are you a Tim Hortons person?

More Tim Hortons.

What's your go-to order at Tim Hortons?

Extra large, one cream.

Extra large coffee, one cream.

Yeah, that's it.

Okay.

But if I could have anything I could, yeah, then it'd be an ice cap, which is like a frappuccino but better with a farmer's wrap, which is like egg and sausage with a hash brown inside it all wrapped up.

I saw that. It looked delicious. It's really good. The hash browns in there.

It's going to be like 900 calories. For that thing. Yeah.

Is that what keeps you fueled through all of the YouTube videos? Are you a coffee guy? Do you like to get caffeinated? Any energy drinks?

Uh, no, it's more appetite suppressant. I don't— zero energy drinks. Yeah. Uh, and I don't use caffeine. I don't need caffeine to like get going. Yeah, it's just it allows me to fast for longer.

You said appetite suppressant. Does that help you get through the day, stay sharp for the YouTube videos?

Do you focus on staying sharp? For me, diet has had almost no impact. Like I could be eating Snickers bars all day long and still show up and be like, let's go, I'm ready to film, guys. And not have a giant crash. I would just be 30 pounds heavier and still having energy. Like I think for me, the energy is much more about the work that I'm doing. Like I'm pumped that you're here, we're having this discussion. I'm pumped for the 3-day mastermind that I'm doing here. Like that's what gets me going. And if I was eating crap or eating healthy, like it doesn't really make a difference. Yeah, but if I hated what I was doing and I was eating healthy, I like, I wouldn't have any energy. It definitely helps.

No, I'm a, I'm a longevity, I'm a biohacking guy. I try to like optimize my nutrition. I take all kinds of weird stuff so that I can stay sharp and operate as a superhuman entrepreneur. That's kind of my goal. Have you ever tried to really fine-tune nutrition, maybe do some of those biohacking tactics that, that I teach to fully optimize yourself?

I mean, Always. Yeah, I love it. Uh, from nutrition to wearable. I mean, got the Oura Ring on, tracking sleep, uh, supplements, trying all bunch of stuff. My new phase right now is anything I'm doing and trying to take a data-driven approach to. So we just did a panel, took 8 vials of blood.

Good.

Tracking baseline for testosterone and just all sorts of crazy stuff. The guy who was just here before you runs a DNA company. Where it tests my DNA and it gives you all sorts of reports on, on where you're likely to have issues or go wrong.

Good.

And then how to, how to kind of fix all that stuff. So I love, I love all that stuff. But I found myself at times buying into the hype of some things and just doing it because somebody said to do it, but without ever tracking. So supplements was one of the, one of the worst in that I would, I would have been on You know, 20 supplements just because somebody said, take this supplement. Okay. But I didn't feel any different, which may not be the best indicator because it could be something that it is actually fixing. But I just don't— I'm very low, just like I could eat Snickers or I can eat super healthy and not feel any different, but my body would be 30 pounds heavier, but I'd still have like the stamina and energy, right?

Tracking the metrics and the blood markers is the way to go, right?

So like one by one. So I cut all of my supplements down to just vitamin D and magnesium. Because I burn magnesium like crazy.

Yeah.

And vitamin D. Pretty much everybody's deficient in vitamin D, especially if you're—

especially living in Toronto.

Yeah, you don't get— I try to get 2 hours sunlight outside every day. Good. Plus the vitamin D. But after that, nothing. And now we're taking an approach of, okay, I got my blood markers. What's the next recommendation? Okay, you're going to try blank. Okay, let's— if it doesn't show up in the blood work or some other kind of test, then I'm not going to keep doing it.

No, that's fair. There's a couple things like fish oil that I just think you don't feel it every day, but there's so much research over the years that shows it's—

I should be doing more fish oil.

There's lots of stuff we can get into it. Anyways, the reason that I was excited to come talk to you today, and I think where we're going to give the most value for my audience, is with what you've done as a motivational speaker. Now, you were listed on Forbes, on Inc. as one of the top speakers in the country, and you've done a lot as an entrepreneur in your journey to build up credibility to finally give back and make the impact that you wanted to make through your books and through your speaking. So I wanted to kind of go through the value ladder that you've created as a speaker. You know, you mentioned that you're now doing the masterminds.

Okay. Oh, we're going hard pivot to business. This is great.

Hard pivot to business. Let's go. Yeah, hopefully we can have some fun here because I'm kind of going through that journey myself a little bit, and you've done it. So hopefully I can learn a little bit from you, and hopefully the audience can too. Everybody wants to be a motivational speaker, right? It's— I was looking at search volume of like, what have you done that people are going to be super interested in? And this is something I'm interested in. Everybody wants to be on stage and make an impact and reach a massive audience, but a lot of times that doesn't happen right away. You have to have some credibility or be really, really good at speaking. What does it take to be a motivational speaker? Can anybody do it?

Yeah, so if you have a goal for something, it's just reverse engineering and making progress and steps every day towards it. I never really had a major goal to be a speaker. I don't like speaking. That's probably why.

Don't like being on stage?

I don't like being on stage. Why do you do it? For the impact. My favorite part of being on stage is to then have 6 hours of conversations in the hallway afterwards. Yeah. So being on stage is my least favorite thing to do because I'm just I'm just talking. Yeah. Where I'd much rather, if I'm going to be on stage, I'd much rather do something like this, like a fireside chat, either with the host or taking Q&A from the audience. Right. Because I, hearing myself talk is not that helpful. But if I know that I'm bringing value to somebody through a conversation, it's more fun for me. But I try to speak as early as possible. If it's a multi-day event, I want to go opening keynote or as early as possible because I'll then spend the next 3 days hanging out with people in the hallway. I'm introverted and shy, so like I'll never come up and say, "Hey, how you doing? I'm Evan. What are you doing?" Like, I'll never do that. But if I speak and then I hang out in the hallway, people will come and talk to me, and that allows for hours of conversation.

As a speaker, and you get off stage, there's all this hype around you. People just got off, you know, watching you, idolizing you. You want to be approached in the hallway after.

I think it depends. I do. A lot of people don't. I'm a weird speaker.

People get nervous to go up to speakers and talk to them and ask them for a picture, ask them the question that they were thinking throughout the talk.

Yeah, and listen, a lot of speakers don't like that. A lot of speakers actually like fly into an event, do their keynote, and fly out and want to spend as little time possible there. Sometimes there is a picture session with people that's been contracted in. Sometimes it's like a bonus lunch for their VIPs or something that's been contracted in, but in general, the speakers don't hang around and they take off.

Why do you?

I don't like to speak. I like to— I'm there for the community. It's my— it's what I love the most. Some people are like that, and there's no right or wrong. It's just what do you care about?

I don't know if I agree. I feel like it's right to do what you do.

Well, no, it's that— it's like I remember I met— I was in New York and Ryan Holiday was in New York, if you know Ryan from all the Stoicism stuff. We just happened to be in the same city together, so he was like, "Hey, do you want to grab a breakfast together?" Like, "Yeah, let's do it." We grabbed breakfast, and he asked me what I was doing today. I was like, "Oh, I'm meeting you." I'm gonna go hang out with some fans, and then at lunch, one of the people in my community took some of my advice and grew this huge multimillion-dollar real estate empire, and he wants to take me to lunch to thank me. I was like, "Okay, cool." And in the afternoon, I'm gonna do a Starbucks meetup with some other fans, and then I'm gonna go home. And he's like, "Well, that sounds exhausting." Like, "Oh, well, what are you doing?" He's like, "I'm meeting you, and then I'm gonna go back and write." And he's sold millions and millions of books, right? For me, it's not right or wrong. It's just what style you lean into. I like community more than, I don't know, what I create or being in the spotlight. I don't like being in the spotlight. Speaking is a chance to be in the audience. I remember the most recent event I was with Brendon Burchard. I was one of his speakers on stage.

Big-time guy.

Yeah. Brendon's one of the biggest in personal development. One of the biggest, yeah. All the other speakers are backstage kind of getting ready and talking to each other in the green room, all that. And when the doors are open, it's like I want to be— I'm at the door opening the doors and like high-fiving people on the way in, even if they don't know who I am. I'm just like, hey, welcome, high five, let's have a great day. It's not right or wrong. I mean, strategically, probably it would make more sense for me to be in the back room talking with the speakers and like brainstorming the mastermind in there instead of just high-fiving people.

It's also way easier. I feel like it takes a lot more work to do what you do. I don't know if I have the social battery to do that. To work up the courage and stamina to get on stage, speak for an hour, and then come off and hang in the hallway and do it all over again. As an introvert, as a self-described introvert, that's actually surprising that you are able to do that.

It's weird. So I don't notice that it's depleting me, and I need somebody to save me from myself. So usually when I travel, if my wife is coming with me, or I'll have somebody else, because it'll be 2 AM and I forgot, like I don't know what time it is, I haven't eaten, I haven't gone to the bathroom in 5 hours.

Jesus.

I'm running a fever and don't notice it. Yeah. Until I'm just so in the zone, focused, until I get back to the room and then it all hits me like a truck and I— Hibernate for 2 days. Yeah. No, well, it depends what I'm doing. The next day I might be back at the conference. Yeah. And I can do that for a couple days, and then if it's past 3 days, then I start to really feel it.

What's the right way to approach a speaker at an event?

If you're going to go to an event, I would say do your research on speakers prior to being there. Try to find them in the hallway before they speak, because after they speak, everybody's going to want to talk to them. So try to find them before. Try to say something personal, like why you like them. What is it about them that you— not just some generic thing like, oh, tell me about yourself. They don't want to answer that question. Tell them something specific that you found that you really care about. And then whatever your ask is, if your ask is, can I take a selfie, that's— most people will be— as long as they're not eating lunch or something, you know, they're usually pretty accommodating. Or if you have a question, like, what is the one question that you want to, you know, ask to be able to get that feedback?

Is there a question that someone's asked you before a talk or after a talk that's left an impression on you?

No, but the most important question is the one that you actually care about. Like, the best question in that I want people to ask is the one that they care the most about personally. Like, how can I help you? I'm there to serve. And so this frustrates me on my, when I do podcasts with people. I actually made a video before I go on somebody's show, we send them a video, like here's how to prepare for a conversation with Evan. It's like, ask the question that you most care about getting answered. 'Cause what often happens is, one, we might run out of time, or two, we're filming and then filming's done and they say, okay, so that's awesome, Evan. You know what I really want to know is like— and then they— it's like, lead with that question. Like, why are we not filming this? Because that's the best thing for your audience. So a lot of times people are— when they're making content, they're only thinking about their audience and not about themselves, right? And understand that the question that you care most about is probably the one your audience will care the most about as well.

Yeah.

So what, what upsets me— and that upsets me is it happens so often, it's— I understand why, but like, don't ask the safe questions that everybody else is asking. Yeah, like, why did you write this book? And tell me about your whatever.

The secret to grow on YouTube.

Yeah. And unless that's what you really care about, right? But it's like, people ask the safe questions, and then you get the interaction, I guess. But you don't— I want to help, you know. If you can use my name to help you line up another interview or whatever, cool. But I'd love to help you with advice as well. Yeah. And so there's no question somebody asked me that's like made me go back in some earth-shattering moment.

But what about the ask? Someone approaches you, they ask you a good question, they say, hey Evan, I have a new podcast that I'd like you to join me on.

Yeah.

Is that something you take them up on, or is there some kind of qualifier?

That's all vibe. Yeah, for me it's all vibe.

Um, it's a good answer, it's true.

Yeah, again, different people look at different things. So for some people, all they care about is numbers. Yeah. And who else you've had on the show, and how big is your show, and how many downloads you're getting, or how many views you're getting, how many subscribers you have. Like, it's only numbers, and that's the thing that makes a difference. So cool. So you know that, so you work your way to getting bigger numbers, and it allows you to get to the front of the line. Other people, they don't— like, I don't, I don't care about the numbers. It's, it's, do I like this person? Yeah.

Do I want to spend an hour with them? 30 minutes?

Yeah. And so I'll say yes to people on to do an interview, and my team was like, "We have all this other stuff that you're saying no to. This person hasn't even launched their show yet. Why are you saying yeah?" But there's lots of people who haven't launched a show who I say no to as well. It's just vibe. I've been people's first guests, and they never even released the episode for whatever reason. They never even launched the podcast, even though I was their first guest. It's fine.

It is what it is.

Yeah, happy to help, moving on to the next thing. Even this, like here, I'm doing my 3-day mastermind here in Toronto for entrepreneurs, thought leaders, YouTubers. And today is our filming day. We had a couple of extra spots.

Yeah.

So, okay, I got my film crew here. Who do I want to invite up? I said, let's, let's see if you're free. Why? I don't know. You know, it's like, I like the vibe. I like the first interview. I've done tons of first interviews with people that don't go to round 2. Yeah. And then I message you and you're like, is there a cost to this thing? Like, no, man, use my film crew. I got the space anyway. If you want to come to Toronto, we'll have some fun. We'll go for dinner afterwards. He's like, yeah, I'm in. Well, why? Why you? I don't know. I like your vibe, right? Like, who would I have fun with for an hour talking in Toronto? I don't have to do it. I could, I could take a break. We've already done two. We're doing more after, right? But I like it. It's fun. Yeah. So, but that may not be the smartest thing to do. I don't know. I mean, for me, it allows me to stay consistent because I think if you are only using your head, you end up doing a lot of things that you don't like doing.

Yes.

And then you stop doing it.

Yeah, you got to follow your gut.

And like, it's got to be fun. And so I— we've done content for 14 years, something like that.

2008, right?

2008, I opened the channel, but 2009 was my first video. So even there, like, we opened in November 2008, but April 2009 was my first video. So even me, I sat on my channel like, I'm gonna start a YouTube channel, and then don't do anything for 6 months, right?

Like most people.

Yeah. No, I'm just like most people. I just kept going. So how do you keep going? Well, you love the thing. So net, it all works out. One individual podcast, sometimes it blows up, sometimes it does nothing, sometimes the person doesn't even release the show. But if I leave, like I see you in my calendar, it's like, this is gonna be fun. I can't wait, this is gonna be great. If I look at it in the calendar, even if it's guaranteed big numbers, but like, I hate this person, or it's not gonna be fun.

[Speaker] It's a good way to think about your day-to-day tasks. Are you looking at these items on your calendar and saying, am I gonna enjoy this, or am I dreading this?

Yeah, and the more you're dreading the thing, if you keep doing that for the next 5 years, you're gonna— you're gonna— you're not gonna like it better, right? You're gonna like it worse and worse and worse, and that leads to burnout. Yeah, a lot of people in the creator community are like burning out after a year of doing content, right?

Yeah, it's taxing.

Well, I'm 14 years in and I haven't burnt out, and we're making daily videos. But because you love the work, right? So like, if you love the thing you're doing, you're not gonna burn out from it.

Starts to become more rewarding too, right? Once you start getting—

just the process. Like, talking to you is the reward. How well this video does, I don't care. Yeah, 100%. So if you enjoy the process of it, you're gonna succeed. If you had me doing accounting work for an hour, I'm gonna start to burn out. Me too. Right? I'm done. Oh my gosh, where's my accountant?

There's certain tasks that you have to do as an entrepreneur once you're starting out that you get off your plate as soon as you possibly can.

For sure. Accounting, HR, legal.

Yeah, I don't want to read any more contracts.

HR I love, HR I love, but yes, accounting and legal for sure. Oh man.

All right, Evan, you're my career counselor and I want to be a motivational speaker.

Okay?

I'm a high school kid. I'm 18. What is the path that you put me on? Lay out a trajectory.

Well, first is speak as much as you can. So start, start doing speaking gigs for free. If you're a high school kid, then you're doing it at your school.

Yeah.

Like, how can you be a part of the morning assemblies or whatever announcements are on the, on the, the PA or whatever they're doing? Right. Like, how do you, work yourself. You have to create opportunities for yourself. But most schools, for example, are— they're not very creative. They're not thinking outside the box. You say, hey, I'd love to read the announcements every day, or I'd love to do this little skit of a positive or motivational quote of the day. Yeah, can I do it? And it's like, okay, give it a shot, right? Yeah. So start speaking. Speak at every assembly. Like, find a way in. Then look to outside your school. Go to libraries, go to Lions Clubs, go to anything you can volunteer to go and just, just practice speaking. So you're getting your reps in. The more it can be filmed, the better, because now we're creating— even it's off your iPhone, right? It's like now we're starting to create content that can be put up on our Instagram, on our YouTube, etc.

Because real and stuff, speak, all of it.

So it's like put it in the reps. Yeah. Plus starting to get content. If you want to get better at speaking, I would also say make a daily video for your YouTube channel or Instagram. Like solo, direct to camera, without an audience, just go and speak. Because you're not going to get an audience every day, but you can make a video every day, right? Find something that inspires you. You know, if you're coming here to Toronto, you talk about your trip to Toronto, talk about meeting me, talk about how our last interview went, talk about what you ate for breakfast. Like, turn— anything could be a motivational spin on it. Like, you're coming to— you're coming to Tim Hortons, that you're excited, something novel, something new, gonna try out some Canadian flavor. Like in that story, the whole point isn't to get people to try Tim Hortons. The whole point is to get people to try something new in their life. Yes. So, but you coming to Canada and trying out the bacon whatever wrap might inspire me to go do something new in my life. Yeah. That's the whole point. Like the story isn't to do the exact same thing.

But you can attach a message to any story.

To any story. Yeah. Right. Why you chose to wear what you wore.

You're like, Jay, you want to come to Toronto?

Yeah. Why you said yes to that.

Right.

All of that. Right. Flight booked.

Let's go.

That is inspiring. You can turn that into a story. So practice, because the best stories are the personal ones. But if it's just your story, it doesn't inspire me. I have to be able to internalize it to my life and what I'm going through. So if I'm trying to get started in that career, I'm speaking as much as possible and in any small venue possible. I started at the YMCA, speaking at the YMCA and then bookstores. Right.

And how old were you?

22. Wow. So I stumbled into speaking, right? So I had a biotech software company that I sucked at at the beginning, was making $300 a month, but then built it, sold it, had some success. When I was 22, we exited, and then I got asked by my country to represent Canada at APEC event for youth. It's going to be entrepreneurs. I just exited, so it was like young entrepreneur success story. 'Will you represent Canada at this event in Mexico City?' It's like, 'Of course, yeah, sure. What do you want me to do?' 'You're going to speak on a panel.' Like, 'Okay.' So I went there, and then somebody at that event was from the government of Brunei, which I didn't even know what Brunei was. And they said, 'Hey, we're doing an event for young entrepreneurs. Can you come and speak at our event?' And so I said, 'Sure, I can come do that.' And then when I came back, I was like, 'Well, why am I speaking in Mexico City and Brunei? Like, there's a lot of Toronto entrepreneurs who might need some help.' So I partnered up with the YMCA. I said, hey, you have a program to help entrepreneurs get started. Can I come and speak to them for free just to, I don't know, inspire them?

Yeah.

And they said yes. And that first event had 3 people show up for free.

What would that feel like speaking to 3 people? I feel like that's a lot of people's fear, right?

Speaking to an empty audience. No, because I thought it would be a big deal. Yeah. They had this program already and it was free. They were promoting it and telling people about it, and they booked this big room. Then I'm nervous, my hands are sweaty, you show up, and it's like, oh, you walk in and my heart's like, only 3 people are here. This sucks.

It sucks.

But 3 people are here, so I'm going to at least do my best. I'm not going to leave. If nobody showed up, that'd be great. I can go home. One person is worse than no people. So 3 people, so I just helped them, and then it was awesome. It's like, this is great, and I don't know how I'm ever gonna make money doing this, right? Like, if only 3 people show up to a free event, how am I ever gonna make money doing this? But I don't know if I will. I just have to keep doing it because I love it, right? And then that 3 turned into 5, turned into 7, turned into 20, turned into— and it just kept growing. Then we made more partnerships. So I partnered with the Royal Bank, which is one of the biggest banks in in Canada. My audience is entrepreneurs, so banking plus entrepreneurs made sense. Then we did it out of their boardroom, and then we grew too big for their boardroom. So then we did it out of Indigo, which is like our Barnes Noble. And we took the flagship store in Indigo, and I started doing speaking there. And I hosted, I think it was every week or every 2 weeks, a speaking gig there. And we had the second most number of people at an event in their store to Sting. Sting was number 1, and we were number 2.

How are you promoting these speaking events? How are people finding you? Why do they want to see you speak?

It was a lot of organic and slow, right? Like 3 people came to the first one. They came back to the second one and they brought a friend. Then they came back to the next one, they brought a friend. Not everybody came back, but a good chunk of people came back and they brought a friend. YMCA promoted it to their list at the beginning, but only 3 people showed up. Then we partnered with Royal Bank to use their boardroom. They sent out a notice, I don't know if it was a flyer or an email or whatever, saying we're doing this event. It helps make them look good, 'cause it's for entrepreneurs. Nobody likes banks. You don't think of banks as being friendly to entrepreneurs, so here's this free thing for you. When we went to Indigo, the bookstore, they allowed us to put little flyers or brochures or whatever, marketing leaflets to say we're gonna be doing this event. But it was mostly that people kept coming back, and then because it was a physical event, they have friends, and where are you going tonight? I'm going here.

[Speaker] You must've been doing a good job to get people back into the class.

[Speaker] But it was a slow, like maybe it was 2 years of doing that. —to get to the point.

You see, I guess, two different types of speakers in the entrepreneurial world. The ones who are like career speakers that start early, are really good, they're motivational, and you can tell by their stage presence they've been doing this for a long time. And then you see the speaker who has had a lot of financial success, a lot of business success, and they're brought on stage to give back in terms of business advice and sharing their tips. Yeah. For the aspiring motivational speaker, do you think it requires them to have some business success to prove that what they're teaching works? Do they need to prove themselves first or not?

Well, it depends what you're teaching. Like, you have to prove yourself inside of the thing that you're teaching.

What were you teaching when you started? I was teaching entrepreneurship.

Very little, like, belief or motivation, but more entrepreneurship, like entrepreneurial tactics based off of me going from $300 a month to exiting my company. So telling my story.

You have already had some success.

Well, yeah. So sure, I had some business success in having exited my business. You, I mean, you can't teach on something that you don't know. Yeah. So you see people try, especially in the motivation world. Yeah, but in motivation world, you can, if you can pull on your experiences. Yeah. But if you're, if you're going to try to teach about business and you don't have a business, you're going to teach me about pay-per-click ads and you never run a campaign or something. It's like, it's just too much of a disconnect to do it. Motivation could work as long as you've overcome something. So what have you overcome? How have you gone through it? That could be inspiring for people. Same thing for the business world, you just have to have some experience in the thing. I think for content creation, you could do the journey of. I'm learning to do this, join me on my journey. I think it's harder to do from stage. I think so too. Journey of.

It's probably harder to get that opportunity on stage. Who's gonna hire 19-year-old Fred to come talk on stage? Maybe at the YMCA. But he has to maybe have had some life experience. That's where I'm wondering, like, if you're coaching that, that young kid, is it don't worry about speaking yet, go get some life experience, or is it get better at speaking first? Both.

Like, in getting better at speaking, you gain more life experience. Yeah. So what do you want to share? What do you want to talk about? Where does that come from? What made you want to be a speaker in the first place? There's probably some pain that you had to overcome. Yeah. You know, so talk about that pain. And the more that you gain more experiences, the more stories you'll have to share and tell. At the beginning, it's just about putting in the reps. Yeah. Most people worry about like the best first step and they just overthink. Like the beginning of any, any habit, we tend to overthink. Yeah. Because we want to do it perfect. If you're going to start biohacking or fitness world, right? Yeah. Where do you start? What's my, what's my workout routine? Okay, well, Okay, so I'm going to get my gym membership and then, okay, I need to research what weights or do I do weights or do I do machines or do I do CrossFit or do I do a running club or do I do yoga? Do I need to get in? Maybe I need a personal trainer. I need to actually get a personal trainer. And then, oh, what about my nutrition? Like, do I do keto? Do I do carnivore? Do I do— and just like, and then you don't do anything because you're just thinking and thinking and thinking.

Analysis paralysis.

Right. Because you're trying to make it perfect. Yep. But the best thing to do is just like go to the gym and do 20 push-ups. Yeah. Pick up a weight and like don't hurt yourself or go to a machine and just play with the machine.

Get better.

Anything, right? Yeah. Are 5 push-ups going to do anything? No. But it's the fact that you went to the gym and you did something. Because if you keep showing up, then you can— then you can apply the science to it. Then you can say, hey, your form sucks on your push-ups. Do it like this. Bring your elbows in or whatever the thing is that you have to be doing. But the beginning phase is not having a perfect plan. The beginning phase is just building some momentum.

Let's talk a little bit about the value ladder of a speaker. People look at Brandon Bouchard as a great example of the ecosystem that they've created for themselves as the business. They kind of are the company. People are paying to see them, to interact with them in their masterminds and read their books. You've done a lot of that for yourself. What are some of those elements to the value ladder that you've seen in common with a lot of the speakers that you've worked with over the years? What do they have in their ecosystem?

So you start with free and free is content, and that's usually YouTube videos, Instagram, TikTok, free downloads, ebooks, etc. And that's top of funnel just to get people to create awareness around your message. Yeah. And some people, that's all they'll ever consume is your free stuff. And that's okay. Like the free people help get you to the paid people. Yes. Moving from free to starting to get paid to then higher ticket paid and like bigger ticket paid, etc., really is just how much access they get to you. Yeah. So the next step up after free is usually something like a book, right? So the book, you're selling for $20 or whatever, but honestly at this point a lot of, a lot of speakers are just giving away their book. Like, here's my free book, it's just extra free. There's— you're not trying to make money off of a book. At best is a break-even usually is some money loss, even if you self-publish, right? Because you're just trying to get your name out there. Yeah. And, you know, books are great. I've done 4 or 5 of them. They're not as effective as they used to be, and you definitely don't need to have one. You know, if you have a YouTube following, Instagram following, etc., that can be your ticket in just as easily as a book. I think they're very shareable material too.

You see people taking pictures and sharing the books that they're reading on Instagram all the time.

Recommending books. Yeah, I mean, if you love writing and you have a message to share, write a book. If it's just a strategy, don't write a book. That's good advice.

I keep thinking, I should write a book, I should write a book.

I really don't want to write a book. Yeah, then don't. However long it takes you to write a book, and then edit, and then cover design, and all that, and then promote, there's so much better things you can do. I could have made 100 videos. Exactly, which will go way more viral if one of them takes off compared to your book, right? But if you have a message to share and you want to write a book, write a book. Like Ryan did well writing books. That's what he loves. He loves to write. Yeah. Great. Go write. After that, then it's usually some kind of group coaching. In terms of the value ladder, it wouldn't be the order that I build it in, but in terms of price and value ladder, then it's usually some kind of group coaching, group membership, online training, Zoom rooms, et cetera. Whether it's once a month or twice a month, then you have some kind of group training.

Like a paid course behind a paywall with some group training attached to it?

Yeah, paid course. Though courses are— paid courses without, without community, I think, are going to be commoditized. Yeah, a lot of the content is just getting out there for free, right? So you can have a course, but I would definitely build in community and, and access to you, even if, even if just hot seats. Like, my group is Movement Makers. We have one called Movement Makers that's for for thought leaders trying to build their brand, and the other is Brandlytics, which is for just for YouTube, how to grow a YouTube channel. Movie Makers has a course attached to it, and every 2 weeks we hop on a call, and I'm not teaching the course. You're expected to have gone through this module, and then we do hot seats. How can we go deeper into the content that was up there instead of me coming on and teaching each time? So course, group work.

That's subscription, or typically like bigger one-time fee for access?

You can go both. Brandlytics is subscription, Movement Makers is a one-time fee. Cool. After that, then you should go some kind of mastermind group. Mastermind group, it's what I'm doing here, right? We have, we have 3 days together creating content, teaching, connecting with each other. There's gonna be— I don't know how many people are gonna be at the event today, but you know, Movement Makers is a bigger group, and then you come down to like 5% of that are gonna come and meet in person and pay a lot more. Movement Makers is about $7,500 to $10,000 to join. The Mastermind is $30,000 plus to join, right? In terms of pricing. And then on top of that, speakers would then have one-on-ones. So like, again, it's degree of access to the speaker. One-on-ones is the most time-consuming thing. So you don't want to do too many, it's going to be at a higher ticket price. If I'm getting started, I'm trying to figure out how to monetize my speaking career. What order would you build? Free into one-on-ones. Hmm. You get paid faster. Yeah.

You don't have to build too much.

Yeah. And so, like, this is where a lot of people get stuck is they go and they build a course. Don't build a course. Yes. You don't even know what people need yet. Like, the best courses are built after you've dealt with people's problems. So if you're coaching people one-on-one and you're helping them with all of their biohacking and whatever, right, common themes will come up. Hey, Jay, how do I blank? How do I blank? You know, I've seen you with like devices on your head and like you're trying all of this. Awesome stuff out, right? What are the 5 to 10 most common things that people are asking you? Then you turn that into a course. Most people start off with a course, or they start off with a book, even start off with a speech, and it doesn't land. Because when you're doing courses, books, speeches, there's no immediate feedback, right? It's one-to-many. So if you're gonna be speaking one-to-many, you better know how to speak to one-to-one people. Because if you're doing a speech, you're really just talking to one person. You have to hit every person individually. But when there's no direct feedback coming back to you, you don't know if it's working or not. So how do you know if it's working or not? Because you've done it so many times one-on-one. Right.

You know what the commonality with what they're asking is, typically about your free content.

100%. And you know, you know what, free content, but then also the one-on-one paid work. Yeah. Because if you're working with somebody one-on-one, You know the common questions they ask, you know your advice, and then you also know what the common objections are gonna be, why they're not following through. They're not gonna wear that helmet because it's too expensive, or because it takes too much time during the day, or because it makes my head feel hot, or because it— whatever the reasons are. When you're dealing with people one-on-one, you get to understand all the objections that they have as well, which then when you are writing a book or doing a speech or doing courses, you have to be able to objection handle. 'Cause they're thinking it, but they're not telling you. So if they're thinking objections but they're not telling you, they're not gonna do the thing you want them to do.

[Speaker] And you might not know what those objections are unless you've had a lot of these conversations.

[Speaker] If you haven't done the one-on-ones. 100%.

[Speaker] What do you typically charge for those one-on-ones when you're just getting started? Maybe you've made a few YouTube videos, you've got a small following, and you wanna start making money from these one-on-ones. [Speaker] It depends on how good you are.

So when I'm working with people who are experts, who are, you're really good at something, My goal is to get to a 6-figure business as quickly as possible, and we'll usually look at how do we start off at $2,000 a month? What can we offer for $2,000 a month? And to get 4 clients doing that. That's almost a $100,000 business. Crazy. If you have 4 clients paying you every month at $2K, you've got a $96,000 business. So you're almost at 6 figures. And for most people, that's a good benchmark. But how do you get to those 4 clients? And are you good enough? So if you're just getting started and you have no experience and all you're doing is speaking motivations, It's probably gonna be hard to get 4 people to pay you $2,000.

And to keep paying you.

That's the key thing is whenever you're doing coaching, don't think of it as a one-off. The first might be an introduction call or whatever, but your packages default to 1 year. If you're a content creator and you're working with brands, don't do one-offs, default to 1 year. It's where people are losing a ton of money. It's a lot of work to do the first one and a lot less work to do the continuity. So if you're working with a brand as a content creator, it's so much work to figure out how to integrate them once. And they're not going to get much results out of one post. Make it an annual thing. What does one year of working with you look like?

Do you get a lot of pushback on that ask? If you want to work with me, it's going to be a 12-month commitment. I feel like a lot of people are worried about asking for that.

They're looking for confidence. Yeah. Any sales situation, they're looking for confidence. Whoever is more confident wins. And so you can do this unethically. And like, there's a lot of unethical salespeople who are pushing people into things that don't serve them. But if you believe that your thing can actually help them— if you're a coach of anything, what are they gonna get from one session with you? If you're a personal trainer, okay, they'll learn a little bit in one session, teach them some form, but it's like it's not really gonna help them get the results that they want, right? So if you're actually good at what you do, the continuity is the thing that's gonna help move them along. And it's a combination of the, the actual tactics that you're giving them as well as the The inspiration, the accountability, the motivation. Like a personal trainer, half of their job is just psychology. Actually, maybe 90% of what they do is psychology, and 10% is the workouts and the meal plans, everything else, right? You can give them the perfect plan, but they're not going to follow through, most people. So like, that's your job, is to push them beyond what they would do themselves. Yeah. And so for any, any coach, that's why am I working with you? I can give you some tactics, but It's the ongoing is where we're going to see the results. So as long as you believe that and you can genuinely feel that and you tell them that, you have to tell them what to do. They don't know this world, right? Like they're stepping into your world. So you need to be the expert and tell them what to do.

I'm going to try that 12-month thing. I like— I think that's great advice.

What are you coaching people on the most when I do the one-on-ones?

Yeah, it's typically people in my group training who have more specific questions that I don't just want to answer in like our Slack channel. I'm like, this is going to require a deep dive into like everything that you're doing. So it's typically $500 for 30 minutes. And typically during that time I'll upsell something else that they probably need.

What are you training them on? Like, what are the most common things that you help people with? Typically it's their marketing. Okay, perfect. So like marketing is not just something that is solved right away.

No. So specific to each industry and what they're doing.

Yeah, and then we need to— whatever advice you're going to give them, whether it's pay-per-click, whether it's them making video ads, whether it's them creating content, whether it's their emails, like there's so much. I don't know where you specialize, but in all of that— lead generation. Great. So in the lead generation, just teaching them how to create a campaign is not going to get them the results that they need, right? Your goal is, hey, for every dollar you pay Jay, I'm going to give you $3 back in advice and tactics and execution. And in sticking to the plan that we laid out. So marketing is not something that just gets solved in one call. I mean, we could do that and it's $500 for 30 minutes or whatever. But what you really— if we want to— if you're serious about this and you can afford it, this really should be a $10,000 investment over the next year. And I'll work with you every whatever that works out to.

That'll be the next stage of my value ladder, I guess, because that's a lot more commitment of my time than 30 minutes. So with that, over time, over—

it could still be the $500 an hour. You can give a slight discount or whatever, right? But it's like, even if whether you even want to do that or not, right? When I'm working with consultants at the beginning, like, I want you to be at least $500 an hour. That's so if you're— if it's— if it's $2,000 a month that we're looking at, that's 4 hours max. Yeah. Right. So you're $500 for half an hour. I mean, it's a great spot to be. And as you— as you keep getting more clients and more rapport, etc., then you keep raising your prices. But lining up an annual program for people not just gives you more consistent cash flow and stream, etc., but gets them better results.

Yeah, it would. I can help them at a much more intimate, much deeper level.

Okay, so we're going to meet again next week or in 2 weeks. And by that time you have to get these, these things done and then we're going to start looking at your results. So now they're much more likely to get the thing done because they're going to talk to you in 2 weeks and they don't want to look bad that they haven't done the thing. Where a lot of times, if it's just a one-off, you'll give them great advice, and not just you, anybody, give great advice and then the follow-through is mediocre. They find something, ah yeah, he said that, but I don't think I can do it because of, they fall back to who they were and come up with all these excuses why they can't do it, which you could easily, if they were talking to you, you wouldn't let that stuff slide. It's like, we said we'd get this campaign set up. What's the problem? [Speaker] The accountability is half of the, Just knowing that they're going to talk to you will make them much more accountable to do it.

It's like working out with a trainer. You know you're showing up at 7 AM. You paid them, you're showing up.

You can give them the best video script to do that will work for their new Google ad campaign or whatever they're going to create, but if they're afraid of being in front of the camera, then they're not going to do it because they have a confidence issue.

That's great because this is where I think I messed up in my value ladder. My one-on-one time was these 30-minute $500 calls. I agree, they should be commitments and there should be some accountability there because I'm probably not helping them as much as I should be.

Yeah, well, you definitely aren't. Definitely aren't. Yeah. Like they're not following through. And I would also book it as I— for any of my stuff, it never goes to the full hour. So it's 25 or 55 just to give yourself a break to then go to the bathroom or like do whatever in between. So it's always a 25-minute call or 55-minute session. Everything, my movement makers, my training, it's always 25-minute or 55-minute, and just think about what you would sell it for. So if you're going to do $500 for half an hour, how often do they need to meet with you? You know, is it, is it every week? Is it every month? Is it twice a month? Is it every week for the first 4 weeks and then once a month afterwards? Is it like—

and then how much time does that actually cost me and how many clients can I afford to take on based on that time?

And you just— so you can take on a max of 7. And so you just after 7, you keep increasing the price.

How many do you have in your private training? How many can you manage?

Oh, I— the scale on top of that has been— I don't really do one-on-ones unless it's something that we're promoting. Yeah. But how I've done it is partnering with entrepreneurs.

So tell me more about that.

What does that mean? So, I mean, Drew here is in the house, right? One of the guys I partner with. People kept asking me for YouTube training and channel management. Like big channels, people with a million plus subscribers. Like, hey, can you come on and help? And what I would do is, hey, I save Friday afternoons for my friends. So Friday afternoons, almost every Friday afternoon, I'm talking to some YouTuber as a friend or a friend of a friend. I can give them advice on their channels. Like, oh my God, this is amazing. Can you do this for us? Like, no, I'm not— I don't want to be on your channel every 2 weeks talking to you. Like, I love you and this is great and hopefully this helped, but I'm not gonna manage your channel because then I won't be able to manage mine. Yeah. So I partnered with 4 different people who do have different skill sets, but like, if you want, you can hire Drew and Drew will do it for you. Yeah.

You've already built out the ecosystem for your own channel. Do you rent out that ecosystem? Is that, is that what you mean to other channels? Well, they don't rent out my—

like, I don't do anything on my channel to promote them. They have their channel. Yeah. They don't know what they're doing. Not really. Their team doesn't know what they're doing. Not really. And so we'll come in and help them. And so I'll hop on a free call with them and they get incredible value. And if they want to go and run with it, cool, go and run with it. But they're like, they're not going to get much results and things are constantly evolving and changing. So Drew will come in then and say, well, I'll introduce Drew. It's like, hey Drew, here's a potential client for you. And it's all, you know, Drew would start at, what do you start at? $2,000 a month, $2,500 a month for strategy. 2K a month is like starting, starting, starting point. Yeah, and then, and then it'll be split testing thumbnails and titles will have its own fee, and then doing different mashups and different strategies have different tickets. And he's evolved into just percentage of channel. So great, instead of it just being a flat fee every month, like, okay, I'll take blank percentage of your channel and I'll work with you to continue to grow. And so he's paring down how many clients he works with, and pairing up like the size of the channel, how much revenue they make. He's invested into the growth of the channel, and I partnered with Drew on that business. So I talk to Drew every week almost for 25 minutes. I've done that with, with Drew, with Jeremy, with this place here, this studio. Right. Talk to Alex, who helps me run this for 25 minutes every week.

So figuring out how to monetize the existing resources and network that you have to help others so it's not costing you. Your personal time one-to-one.

Yeah. And so, like, Drew talks to I don't know how many clients every week, but I just talk to Drew. And if they try to skip to me, I'm like, I try to push it back to Drew. Like, talk to Drew.

Yeah, you have to be good at that. The bigger you get, the more people that want your attention. Being able to divert that attention to the right places. I built a GPT of myself where I fed it all of my YouTube knowledge. And now anyone comes to like my Instagram or my YouTube comments comes with a technical question, I point them there and it's been really successful.

That's great free content. Yeah. And then you see the people who have— if people don't have money, they value their money more than their time. Yes. And so they'll explore all sorts of free stuff and that's great. And like I produce tons of free content every day. The people who want to go faster who have money, they value their time more than their money. Yes. And so they pay for speed. And so they just come on and they want to— they want you to tell them what to do, and then they go off and do it. And so they value expertise. And so those are the people— or it's a tiny percentage of the people who will be following you. Yeah, but the free people lead you to the paid people. 100%. And then those people, you continue to— if you're only going to work with 7 clients, well, as you get bigger and you retain your current clients and now there's more demand, then you start raising the prices. But everybody's on a 1-year program.

Your most recent book, The 10 Secrets to Success. You've spent a lot of your career highlighting some of the greatest entrepreneurs of our time and before our time and learning from them. What are those 10 secrets to success, and tell me a little bit about this newest book.

I don't remember what all the 10 are in the book.

What about the biggest takeaways that you've had?

Believe is the biggest one, and that's what I found consistent across all the successful people that we profiled, whether they're entrepreneurs or athletes or musicians or artists, the people at the top of their field, if you don't believe in your, maybe not current abilities, but the abilities to figure it out. If you're some young speaker on the come up, it's like, okay, well, you don't have any abilities yet, but the belief that it's possible, the belief that tomorrow you don't have to be in the same spot that you are today, even when it doesn't look like it. Your family's not doing it, your friends aren't doing it, the people you know aren't doing it. Who are you to be this crazy guy going off and changing the world and doing amazing things? The belief that you could be way bigger than you are right now, that is consistent across all the people that we profiled.

Think it's ego, belief, conviction?

There's a healthy number of people who have a big ego. You kind of have to. I don't know that you have to have a big ego. but confidence in your abilities to figure it— not even confidence in yourself, but confidence in your ability to figure it out. Yeah, I think that is consistent. Yeah, because you look at where people came from, chances are your hero started with less than what you already have right now. The people you look up to started with less than what you already have right now. If they can do it, what's your reason for not doing it? And there's tons of reasons why you're not doing it, but like, it's only easier to grow and build and create. You know, I look at Oprah, who had such a crazy upbringing and the rape and all this stuff. But one of my favorite stories was she, she was raised by her grandmother who was poor, and she had to go to school. Her grandmother couldn't afford clothes for her, so she would buy potato bags, bags of potatoes to eat the potatoes, and then she'd take the bag and sew it into a dress. And Oprah would wear potato sacks. I've never heard that story. As a dress going to school. Can you imagine, school sucks already, kids are making fun of you, and now you're showing up to school in a potato bag. Now obviously it wasn't just like garbage bag, but still, it's like, it's a potato bag. That's your dress for school.

No, I can't imagine. It's inspirational for anyone.

And she can go from that to where she is now. Like, what are you, what's, without the internet, like, yeah, what's your excuse?

Belief, number one. Belief. Any other highlights from that book, success tips that you feel like all of these leaders have had in common?

The willingness to start and then the courage to keep going. So we all have these ideas. I want to start a podcast, I want to be a speaker, I want to be a whatever. We all have these great ideas, but the successful people, they're not smarter than you. Often they're probably stupider than you. They just start. They're just like, okay, I'm going to start. It's going to suck, whatever. Courage. Yeah, it's like even lowering the expectations just so that you can go off and do it. Like lowering your expectations of what you're gonna get at the gym and just go and do 5 push-ups. People aren't willing to suck at the beginning, right?

We want to be perfect. YouTube specifically, my partner, people are scared to start recording videos with no one watching. Like speaking on stage with 3 people. Yeah. But you have to do that for a while before people start watching.

Well, but here's the thing, you're afraid that nobody's watching, but you're also afraid when people are watching. If you get on a stage with 1,000 people, it's your first time, you're afraid too. Right.

Fear no matter what.

Right, so it's like, okay, just start. It's actually better to start when there's nobody watching. Yeah. Right? So just start. Just go and create. And so successful people just start. Whether it's lowering the threshold for what good is or just expecting to suck, it's just go and start. And then the consistency to follow through, right? So they just don't quit. If you look at my YouTube channel, the numbers are on my homepage, but it's like 5 years in, I still had 2,000 subscribers. Wow.

And that was back in 2009? Yeah, plus 5 years.

My first year had 25 subscribers. Second year was like 100. It's on the website. It goes year. I don't remember it all, but year 5, it's 2000-something. It's easy to say, "Oh, I suck." It's not just I tried once. This is 5 years in.

Yeah, 5 years.

That's validation that you suck. Yeah, exactly. I've given this a shot. It wasn't always every day. It wasn't every day. It's 5 years, you know, but I just kept going. So the first 5 years were $0 to $2,000, and the next 5 years were $2,000 to $1 point something, right, million.

Every YouTuber will say the key is patience and persistence too, like clockwork. It's just consistency. Don't stop.

I think you can learn and you can— I mean, I didn't have role models to look to. Yeah, there were no YouTube courses or classes, and I was too embarrassed to ask for help, too shy to ask for help. So like, if I could do it over again, I I could get there faster, but it's still a journey. I'm introverted and shy and don't like the camera and all of this stuff. I'm not technically savvy, all of the things that— Right, but through trial and error you figured it out. I just kept going. The willingness to keep going. Why? Because I loved it. I loved it. I love making videos. Even though I don't like being in front of the camera, I love making it. It's a weird thing. I just kept going. You see successful people, they just keep going. For people watching this, there's a lot of strategies you can use now to get there faster. There's a lot of, how many mentors are online? Even if you never join a mastermind or anything, people sharing content of how to win in anything, in biohacking and digital marketing and lead generation and YouTube. There's so many people now sharing content that didn't exist. You had to figure a whole bunch of stuff out that now people are teaching for free. If you were getting started, you can get there a lot faster too. There's no reason why you can't go off, like people watching you, you can't go off and go create something and get there faster than Jay did or Evan did.

Yeah, and my shortcut was buying courses. So what you said is completely correct. All right, one more.

Well, and listen too, like some courses are a waste of money, right? Yeah, bad apples too. If you guys heard me, I said buying courses, courses. I'm sure like out of the 20 courses you bought, there were like 2 that were awesome and 10 that were okay, and 8 that just completely sucked, right? Where people, or whatever the numbers are, you know, but it's not like 18 out of 20 were awesome and I learned so much.

Some are awesome, some it's like I got one thing, so maybe it was worth it, and then some are just a waste of your time.

And that will happen. Yeah. You know, that will happen, and so talking about the latter, if you're trying to figure out how to work with somebody, I'd say consume their free content first. If you're thinking about Jay, watch his free content first. Let him prove to you that it's worth invest in a little bit more. Then buy whatever the cheapest course is, a membership or whatever. Let them prove to you that it— don't just go out and hire Jay and pay him $10,000 for a year, right? Like, taste and test the waters along the way. And for anybody, that's how you avoid getting ripped off, because if they've proven to you every step along the way— if the free content made you $5,000, cool. Invest $100 in something. If that made you $10,000, cool, right? So let the person prove to you along the way that it's worth it.

Love that. And make a really good quality free content. It makes selling the paid content a lot easier. For sure. Let's get one last success tip from the book and we'll wrap it up. What is your, your, your third top takeaway from the 10 success tips?

So the willingness to model success. It's something that helped me back a lot at the beginning, was like I, I was trying to figure it all out myself and I, I didn't ask for help. I felt embarrassed asking for help. I felt foolish not being able to have the— I prided myself in being able to find the answer, which is a good thing to have. I will go and figure this out. That's great, but you don't have to do it all alone. Whether it's asking Jay for help or joining your community or listening to podcasts or watching a book or going to an event, even if the event sucks and you learn nothing, if you keep going to events, you'll pick up something from one of them. And so just every time that I try to figure out myself, I eventually do, but it's slow. Yeah. Every time I go, especially in a new area, and I, I don't know anything and I ask for help and I get feedback, great. Like if I want to learn digital marketing or lead generation, I'm starting off and I want to learn lead gen, I could do it and I can go through all the course, but I could also just ask Jay and he's going to like shortcut my path. And I still probably don't ask for help enough.

I don't think any of us do. I think it is a really important skill.

It's a, it's a great reminder, right? Like, I'm making this video for me. Jay's gonna clip this and then send this to me in 6 months. Evan, you asking for help? Just recognize that you don't have to do this all by yourself, and you shouldn't do this all by yourself. Great tip.

And investing in those relationships like this, this one here, starting a podcast, making a network so you can pick up the phone when you encounter a new problem, want to learn a different skill— super helpful. Evan, this has been a blast. Thanks for coming on the show. You're an inspiration to me. I hope to follow in a lot of your footsteps.

Cool. Thanks for coming up, man.

Thanks, Evan. Love Toronto.

To see me coaching another entrepreneur one-on-one, check the video right there next to me. I think you'll love it. Continue to believe. I'll see you there. I had 5 years to get to 2,000 subscribers or something like that. The only thing I had going for me was I just kept going. I wasn't very good on camera. I didn't have any strategy. I didn't really know what I was doing.