Evan Carmichael Radio Show - Episode #29

Hello, Believe Nation! Welcome to another edition of the Evan Carmichael Show. I believe in entrepreneurs, and this show is all about making you a success with your company. Now, I'm really excited about today's show. Today we're talking about how to get bigger clients, how to land bigger deals. And I know a lot of you, and this is me when I was starting up too, You're frustrated, you're not getting the momentum you want, you're not making the kind of money you want, you're tired of working with customers who may not respect you or value your time enough or value what you do enough, and you're not where you wanna be yet. And part of getting to that goal, part of reaching your dream is being able to work with clients who can afford to really pay you what you're worth and help you build your movement and start to change the world for the better. So if you're frustrated, you're not in that place yet where you're hitting your goals, you're not getting big enough clients yet, this show is for you. Now I'm really excited, here's what I'm going to talk about. I'm going to talk about from my experience how I got big companies to fund my product development. I'm going to talk about how I turned a $500 one-off deal into a six-figure annually deal and how I got to work with Donald Trump, closing him on a deal, and then sharing my formula for how to go out and get big clients to to work with you. So let's kick it started. If you did an 80/20 analysis on your customer base, if you looked at your customers and looked at where most of your revenue is coming from, you'll probably find that most of the income comes from a few key clients. And in a lot of businesses that's not 80/20. That could be 90/10 or 95/5 where most of your income comes from a few key clients. They're larger. They love what you do. They've integrated what you have into their businesses or their personal lives. You are part of their daily existence. Now, what you want to do is try to move upstream. Land more of those kinds of clients, or even bigger clients. Get above them. These guys have more money. They have bigger needs, and you can build your business around them. They can lead you to the promised land. Now, there's nothing wrong with working with the little guys, okay? It can be very rewarding. It can be a lot of fun. It's great to see that personal impact you're having on somebody's life or business. The problem is it can be really hard and long to build a significant business off of them. If you're selling a consumer product and you're going one by one by one by one, it's going to take a long time to build that up. If you're selling to businesses and you're working with small businesses and entrepreneurs, we don't have a lot of money typically, right? Entrepreneurs do not have a lot of money to spend. And so again, it could be very rewarding, but it's hard to build a business around it, and a lot of entrepreneurs they fail, they shut down, and you spend a lot of time and effort nurturing this client and then they're no longer in business, okay? What you want to do is identify what your ideal clients look like and create a plan to target them. Now, there may be a few select smaller clients who you can grow with and they'll spend more with you as they grow, but it's a risky strategy and I wouldn't bet my business on it. What I want to do is get that plan Target the ideal customers. Now, the bigger clients can also be your research and development department. They can help fund your new product and pay you to do it. Let me give you a quick example. In my old software company, we were constantly asking feedback from customers, right? And that's something you should do. You always want to be talking to customers, getting feedback, asking them how things could be better. Our smaller clients, they give us a lot of great ideas, but most of them would apply only to that. They'd say, "I wish your product could do this. I wish your product could do that." But it was only specific to what they were working on. And we didn't really know how much other people would really benefit from adding those features in. And so it's a risk for us, right? If we develop it and only one person wants it, that's a lot of wasted time. It's not worth the cost. Our bigger clients though, they would ask for features and they'd pay us to create it for them. Our risk was completely removed. And anyone else wanted those features, then it would be a bonus for us. So let me give you an example. An example, you know, one of our clients, they wanted to have the software in Spanish. Okay, our software was English only. So can you make it Spanish? We've got a lot of people, you know, Spanish working for us. We want to be able to have them use the software. And we weren't sure if we wanted to go to the Spanish market. We didn't have enough data or feedback from other people saying, "Hey, we really want this in Spanish." That could have been a big risky move for us to hire these people to make it in Spanish, to have our developers create it for them. And instead what we did is we costed it out. We said, "Okay, to hire the translator who understands kind of scientific language," because it's a scientific software product, "it's going to cost this amount of money. And to then have our programmers go in and create it, it's going to be this number of man hours." And the opportunity cost. Versus making something else. And we put together a budget, said this is what it's gonna cost to do it. And they were willing to pay for that development cost. And we were kind of like mind blown, like they're gonna pay us to make our product better? And it's yes, because it's making their lives way easier, way better, because we were an important part of their business. So that's what you wanna do, right? Those smaller guys, they may have great ideas, but they don't have the budget to be able to afford any kind of custom work or custom development where you can build your business on the backs of these bigger customers. Now, as you grow, you'll also find that it takes a lot of work dealing with any customers, but it takes almost as much work dealing with the big guys as the small guys. And so you're spending all of this time working on these small deals we could be spending the same amount of time working on bigger deals. So I used to be in the venture capital business. The due diligence process, the process that you go to fund a deal, right? You're researching a company, you're looking at their business plans and their proposals, and they're coming in and pitching you, and then you gotta look into the business more and check references and call their customers. It's a lot of work before you put money into a company. A VC will typically start at around a half a million dollar range in terms of investment. But it takes as much work to close a half a million dollar deal as it does a $5 million deal or a $15 million deal. The returns, though, are way smaller on that half a million dollar deal. So the venture capitalists prefer to go for the bigger deals because it's the same work but more money to get the bigger deals. You got to apply this strategy to your business as well. Those smaller clients, they take up just as much time as the bigger ones. And this may mean you have to fire some of your clients. And I know some people get frustrated and anxious and they don't want to do it, but if there are small clients that are chewing up your time and calling in and asking questions and they're asking for new things that you don't have and it's not worth the development time, it's not worth going out and doing it for them because it's only one one customer, then you may have to fire some of those clients and focus on the bigger ones. Here's a way to look at it, okay? This is an important discussion you should have with yourself. If you took yourself out of your business, okay, if you weren't full-time in your business answering customer questions, doing customer support, doing fulfillment, shipping product, meeting with clients, all of that stuff, if you weren't in that part of your business, Could you afford to hire someone to come on board and handle those smaller deals? Could you afford to hire someone to come on board and do that and still be profitable? The answer for a lot of companies is no. And that's why you're making less than you deserve. That's why some people are working at less than minimum wage in their own business, because they're working with clients that are too small. If you can't get your business to the point where you can hire somebody to come on board and manage those smaller clients, then your focus should be on going after the bigger deals. And as you grow, slowly firing the smaller ones. Now there's nothing wrong with starting small. You know, if you're going to go, you have a goal, I want to get Donald Trump to be a customer, right? You've got to have something. You got to have some momentum, some progress, something to show him. There's nothing wrong with starting small, but you don't want to stay small. That's the problem that a lot of entrepreneurs face. They stay small. They stay in the little game. And they get so caught up in running their businesses, the day-to-day grind, that they never remember to get beyond, to grow, to go after those bigger deals. So you want to plot that course. You want to figure out who your ideal customers are and if you can't reach them yet, you're going to aim lower, start smaller, and work towards those bigger deals. Now I want to share a quick story with you. One of the first big clients I got was a major telecommunications company and they hired me and 9 other experts to write for their blog. And they said, hey, we want you to write 300 to 500 words on whatever topic you want and we're going to post it on the blog and we're going to pay you $500 to do it. I thought, hey, this is great exposure. I would have done it for free, but $500 is great. I was just getting started at the time and I didn't just want to give them what they asked for. I didn't write 300 words for them. I wrote 1,500 words and I gave them a video and I promoted it to my newsletter and I shared it on my social media. I gave them way more value than what they were asking for and everybody else just did the bare minimum, right? They did what they were paid to do. They weren't slacking off. They just did what they were paid to do. They wrote 300 to 500 words. After everybody had written their post, my post got more views, more likes, more engagement, more comments than all of the other posts combined. So when the company was looking at seeing who do we want to move forward with, I was a natural choice. I turned that deal into something that became a 6-figure business every year. That post went from $500 that I charged to $1,500 to $2,500. I kept increasing the price because I provided so much value. This is an important lesson. Because if you want to land the big customers, you don't have to go in and just go for a huge deal, right? You don't have to go in and ask for a million-dollar deal. Start with something small. Start with something easy. Start with something that is so stupid, dumb, easy for them to say yes to and then overdeliver like crazy. Reduce the risk for them by starting on a small deal and then show your crazy value. Don't just give them what they ask for. That's the entry price to getting in. You got to go way above and beyond to give that value. That's how you can start working with big customers. I want to get to the calls. I have Bernice on the line. Bernice, where are you from and how can I help?

Yes, I live in Westchester, but I own a barber shop hair salon in the Bronx.

In the Bronx, all right. Welcome on board. How can I help?

Okay, my question is I've had the business for 7 years and when we do our returns, I've tried different ways to maximize our returns. I don't know what we're doing wrong. Um, we do have 3 barbers and a hairdresser, and the business runs pretty okay, nice and smooth, but our returns are not that good. I mean, what could I be doing different to receive more? Because we put out enough. I mean, you know, maintaining it all, maintaining the shop and everything.

So you're getting new people coming in, but you're not getting people coming back?

No, people are coming and they're getting a haircut. My problem, as of a business aspect, is why is it that at the end of the year when we file our returns that we're not getting enough back in return? We do have someone that does the taxes for us and stuff. Is there something I should be doing different so that I can— my returns can be more?

You want more money back from the government at the end of the year?

Yes.

Yeah, you need a better accountant.

That's what I do, right?

Yeah, honestly, like, a good accountant and a good lawyer are really worth their weight in a business. And I know at the start, you know, when you're first starting up, you can't really afford good people to come on board and maybe you're doing everything yourself. And the returns aren't going to be that, but you don't need to hire somebody great because you're not getting a lot back on the returns anyway. But if you've been in business for 7 years and you're growing and you feel like you should be getting more money back, then you need to work with a better accountant. Who are you using right now? Is it like a bookkeeper or you have a full-on accountant helping you? Well, he's been handling our books for the last 5 years.

He's like an accountant more so. I guess so he can stay on top of any changes that we should be able to benefit from, that type of thing. I would hope that he's able to do that. But what should I look for is if I'm looking for to switch him up, will be better, will be what kind of, you know, person?

So specifically you're looking for a tax accountant, okay? Somebody who understands how to maximize the returns for businesses. and what I would do is audition them. You know, you can look up, go to Google and type in Bronx tax accountant, or if you have some friends, you can ask them who they're using. But take your books to them and show them what you're doing, and they'll meet with you for, you know, an hour or whatever, just as an introduction to talk about it, and see what they come up with. See if they say, "Oh, I would have done the exact same thing," or see if they actually give you some strategies and ideas to help you Save some money.

All right, that might be a good try. Yeah, I have to do something.

How much, how much are you getting back in your returns right now?

Um, average maybe $4,000, $3,000, $4,000 a year, you know. And, um, yeah, when we do our taxes in the year, we— that's $3,000, $4,000. And we spend at least about $10,000. We keep the records of how much we spend to keep the place clean and maintained and repairs or anything like that. We keep track of all those things.

So we're spending that and we're like getting back, I don't know if that's You know, and how much are your accounting fees? How much is your accountant charging you every year?

Well, um, he's only charging like maybe $250, $300.

So yeah, okay, so I mean, you get what you pay for. That's not a lot of money, $250, $300 for to do your returns. He's basically just taking what you're giving him and filing it. Like, there's no thought behind that, right?

Right.

I mean, if you feel like you can double your returns, right, say you can get to If you can get to $10,000 in returns, you feel like that's where I should be, then it's worth paying a better accountant $2,000 to help you figure that out. Because, you know, you're spending more, but you're making even more on the back.

I get you. That makes sense.

Right?

Yeah, that makes sense.

So, I mean, does your accountant do your bookkeeping too? Ah, yes.

No, we do our own bookkeeping. We do our own bookkeeping. We keep track of all— like I said, we bring everything to him. Receipts and bookkeeping and anything like that so that he can kind of put everything together, but we keep track of that ourselves.

Okay, and so, I mean, a good accountant will also take an overview of your bookkeeping. They don't have to do it themselves, but they could give you some strategies for how to classify everything so that when it comes to them, it saves them time, right? So that you're not— because you don't want to be spending hundreds of dollars every hour, you know, when they could save you time up front. So if you can find somebody to help you with the strategy, they can also look at your bookkeeping process and how you're classifying everything, so that when you're doing your bookkeeping, you can make the information as easy as possible for them to be able to consume.

Okay, awesome.

So, next step is like audition, right? I mean, you can do it today. You go to Google, type up Bronx tax accountant, and start making some appointments. Do you use a lawyer as well? Do you have a tax lawyer?

No, I don't.

Okay, depending on the size of your business, it could be something that you start looking into too, how you, uh, how you set up your company structure. You know, maybe you need a holding company. There's a lot of tax savings that you can get. What does your business do annually? How much, how much do you make in revenue a year?

Maybe $3,000, $4,000 a month times 12, somewhere like that.

So once you start getting $100,000, $200,000, $300,000, once you start kind of breaking six figures, that may be more the time to hire, to investigate looking at a tax lawyer. They can pay for their weight. But right now you're ready to get a tax accountant. And that's saving you some money.

Yes, a tax accountant may put me where I need to be at so that I can break the six figures. Right now I'm not there. Okay.

Alright, thanks for calling in.

Okay, bye-bye.

Welcome back to the Evan Carmichael Show. I believe in entrepreneurs and this show is about making your business a success. Today we're talking about how to land bigger clients and close bigger deals, and I want to share with you the story of how I made a deal with Donald Trump. Now when I started my website, EvanCarmichael.com, one of my goals was to help a billion people. I want to help a billion entrepreneurs through my website. It's a big goal. And when I started it, It was just me. It was just me, myself, and I. That was the team. I'm sure a lot of you can relate. I wanted to start sharing some great content. I figured, you know what, who's the biggest name out there in entrepreneurship? Who is the biggest guy who I can get on board to add a lot of credibility and really explode this business forward? Donald Trump came to mind because he was just launching his Apprentice TV show and he was everywhere. I thought, I gotta find a way to get to Donald Trump and make this thing work. The challenge is, if Donald Trump looked at my website, there was nothing there, right? There was just my picture and a little bit of information, but there was no momentum. And so he doesn't have a reason to want to work with me. I didn't want to create a negative first impression, but I had my goal. And so I started working towards my goal. And here's what I did, and here's how you can model this success, okay? I started small. I started small, but I didn't stay small. I started by finding business coaches, marketing consultants, sales experts, anybody who had information that would be of value to entrepreneurs and invited them to share content on my website. So I did mini deals, mini deals with low-hanging fruit, people who, you know, they were just looking for any kind of exposure and I was giving it to them. So they didn't really care about what I had built up yet. Which was nothing. And then we started helping them and I started refining the model and I started making mistakes with them and figuring out how I could get better and give them more value. And when I built it up and I knew I had something that was working, I said, okay, I'm ready to grow now. I'm ready to grow. And I wanted to move to the next tier, right? Along your path to your goal, to that big dream, there are steps that you have to take. So my first step was the low-hanging fruit dealing with anybody who had content. The next step was I wanted to reach out to somebody who was a little more well-known. Not Donald Trump level yet, but a little bit more well-known. And so I wanted to get Guy Kawasaki and Seth Godin. And at the time they were big names in bloggers. They have books that are highly successful.

You should read them.

I recommend them. And so I started reaching out because I didn't know either of them. They weren't my best friends. I didn't know how to get in touch with them. And I started asking my friends and started networking. And I came across a guy who knew Guy, a guy who knew Guy. And he set up that introduction for me. He was willing to introduce me to Guy Kawasaki. Seth Godin, I didn't have a contact into. So I just reached out to him. And I passionately let him know what I was doing and if there was a way that we could strike a deal together. And both of them said yes. Through my networking I got the guy and just through a passionate email that was sent, both of them said yes and I started working away on using now their names to get me to the next step. I used their names and credibility to help me get Michael Gerber who wrote the E-Myth and Zig Ziglar and Jack Canfield and all these other bigger names. Then I used their names to go and get Donald Trump. Trump was launching his Trump University which is a program to help entrepreneurs. And was looking to have more headway into the small business space. And I connected to him through Trump University and they said yes. And so it's starting small but not staying small and building your steps up. It started with whoever I could find, right? The low-hanging fruit customers. Then moving one step up to Guy Kawasaki and Seth Godin. Then moving one step up to getting Jack Canfield and Zig Ziglar and those guys. And then finally going after Donald Trump. And by the time I got to him there was so much momentum so much traction built up and I used the names of everybody who was with me at the time, that was an easy decision to say yes to. So that's how you start. You start small but you don't stay small and continue building step by step by step till you get to the big fish. I have Antonio on the line. Antonio, where are you from and how can I help?

Hey, how are you?

I'm great, man. What's up?

I'm from Lufkin, Texas. I have a brand that's called Just Be You. I just started it because I recently decided to come clean about a lot of things and just be you. Started from my childhood and the things I went through at the age of 12 and, um, on up to now to present. And this brand, I'm trying to get it out. I'm trying to get my story out there. I, I, I'm trying to get people to notice me. I have a fan page so far, but it just seemed like it's just the same, you know, this is not going as fast as I wanted to, basically. I have friends that support me. I have a lot of Facebook friends that shared my story or whatever, what happened and what was going on behind Just Be You. I have no idea if I want to start a book or if I want to do clothing. I don't know how I'm gonna go about it, but that's what I really just need advice on, on how to get it out there, how to get myself going, because it just seems like it's in the same spot.

I love it. So the message is clear, easy, Just Be You, something people can relate to. How you want to be able to introduce that next is by quickly elaborating on that, right? So why is it so important that you have to just be you?

Because I know it's a lot of people out there that can relate to my life story and what I've been through. And to be like, it's just okay to be you. It's okay to open up. It's okay to say, I've been hurt and not worry about what anybody else has to say. Just be you. And this is something that I feel like a lot of people can relate to, you know, but I can't get it to everyone without, you know, no support or anything. So I really just stuck in a bind on where to go with this.

Who is your audience? Is it kids? Is it young adults?

Is it everybody? Uh, it's honestly, it's everyone, but I'm really more so looking at the young, the young up to the middle age. Because they can relate to, of course, with all the police brutality, child abuse, sexual molestation, and also with me being a gay male and the stuff that I went through as trying to get Just Be You up too with that. People just turning me down because of my sexual orientation. It's a lot behind the story, behind my story about what I went through just to StarBit, just be you. But it's just, I can't seem to get to them. I can't seem to just get everybody to share my story. I can't just get to everybody to just notice me. But I need help on who, you know, what's best besides social media.

What I would recommend doing is starting to leverage other people's brands here, okay? So you're trying to build up your own brand, just like I did when I started associating with Donald Trump and Jack Canfield Ziglar, that built up my brand and people started paying attention. So the same thing can happen with you in the field of just being you. And what I would do is pick one medium. If it's whatever you feel more natural at, if you like writing then do a blog. If you like doing radio, if you like speaking then do a podcast or radio show. If you like doing videos then do a YouTube channel. And I'd start reaching out to people who you know have gone through some of the same stuff that you've done. So if coming out of the closet and saying, "Hey, I'm gay," was a big thing for you, then find other people who are more established, who are more well-known and more recognized, and interview them. And you can share part of your story, but also you're bringing on these people to come on board and help you. So here's an example. I'm writing a book called One Word, interviewing people like the founders of Honest, which is Christopher Gavigan and Jessica Alba. So telling their story helped build up leverage around the concept of one word in the book I'm writing. So who can you interview who has gone through— and there are so many people who have gone through this child abuse and coming out of the closet and being gay and being made fun of and all of that. Everybody has a story that they can share that can relate to it. And so creating an ongoing media channel, whether it's a blog, a podcast/radio show, or a YouTube video interview channel, that you can leverage their names and their stories, but at the same time build up your brand in the process.

Okay, I didn't even look at it like that.

That sounds like a plan. Who's somebody you respect who's come out of the closet? Who's somebody you look up to and it's like, he did it, Like Tim Cook from Apple just came out of the closet and said he was gay, right, the president of Apple. Yeah. Right? So that could be a goal of yours to go and interview Tim Cook, right? And maybe you start smaller and you build up your platform. But if it's Tim Cook or if it's Matthew Johnson coming out and saying he had AIDS back in the day, or HIV back in the day, using them to help you build up credibility. And then when the interview launches, they're probably going to help spread the message, right? If somebody has a following on social media, say, "Hey, I was just interviewed by Antonio. Go check out this podcast or this YouTube video." So it really helps build your brand. Okay, okay, okay, okay.

And about going on with that, do you think that the fan base page I got going, I need to keep that up also?

I would focus your efforts, pick the one thing that you love doing most, and pour all your passion into it. Antonio, we gotta go. Thank you so much for calling. Good luck. Keep me posted with your progress. Welcome back to the Evan Carmichael Show. I believe in entrepreneurs, and today we are talking about how to land bigger clients. So I want to share with you my 4-step process, okay? Number 1, you have to know who you want. This is really important. You can't just be, "Hey, I want to have bigger clients." You gotta have a target. You gotta know who you want to go after. For me, it was Donald Trump, right? I wanted Donald Trump to to be involved in my business somehow. That was my goal and I worked towards it. So you gotta know who you want. Number 2, if you can't go out and get that person right now, aim lower. It's okay, you gotta start smaller, build momentum, go step by step by step, continue pulling people's sweaters to get higher up the ladder. That's how you do it. But just don't stay small. Too many people have this big goal and then they start small and they just keep staying small and they don't take the next step up. You may not go from small to Trump, But you go small to medium to large to extra large to Trump, right? You got to go through that process. Number 3, when you make that list of people you want to reach out to, start reaching out, right? Reach out to them. Connect to them. Let them know what you're up to.

Let them know who you are.

Let them know how you can help them. And number 4, keep reaching out. And this is the key, because most of the time it doesn't happen on the first time. You got to follow up. You got to stay in touch. You got to keep providing value. And it's not just calling up and saying, "Hey, you ready to buy from me yet? You ready to do something together?" You should be a known quantity, okay? You want to be following them on Twitter and commenting on their stuff. You want to be connecting with them on YouTube and Google+ and LinkedIn, wherever they are. And when they're commenting and sharing stuff, you want to be there. They should know who you are. You see something in the media or the news, an article, a story, a book that you think could help them, you fire that off to them. You want to try to add value. So that when you are top of mind with them, when they have a need, they're going to go to you first. Okay? That's the 4-step process. Use it. Leverage it. Start to grow your business and get bigger deals. Number 1, know who you want. Number 2, aim lower if you have to. Number 3, reach out. Number 4, keep reaching out. I got time for one last caller. We're going to the lines. I've got Joey on the line. Joey, where are you from and how can I help?

From Long Island, New York. How you doing? Well, you just answered a lot of my questions right there, but basically what I am is I'm a professional DJ, a comedian, and a singer. So what I was trying to do was try to be different, and I wanted to package all my talents into a one-man show type of thing. I started a website about a year ago, and I'm getting, you know, I'm surprised I'm only getting maybe 3 or 4 gigs in that direction. They're great. The parties are great. Everything I'm shooting for is working out great. It's just a matter of, like you said, targeting, finding out where I get those type of clients, Facebooking it, Twittering it, all that type of stuff. I'm even thinking about maybe getting a local commercial here on Long Island to promote myself.

Are you doing weddings or corporate events? Who's your audience?

Well, weddings and stuff like that I keep separate, but when I'm doing corporate events or if I'm doing 50th birthday parties and stuff like that, more entertainment the better, you know? So I'm trying to take all my talents together and put them into one party. And it's a great idea and it works great when it happens, and I really have to sell the idea, but it's not catching on. I've been doing it for about a year now, and like I said, I had like 4 or 5 parties in the last year. I get regular parties, you know, I get regular weddings and sweet 16s and stuff like that. I don't know how to market this, you know, I mean, you know, it's like people don't trust it because it's new, it's different, you know, I'm like, trust me, it's good, so.

Yeah, I think if you're looking at social media, your best bet is going to be YouTube. Like, I want to see this because as you were doing this, you're saying you're a DJ, comedian, singer, like I want to see your show.

I have a website and I have videos on the website, but I guess getting traffic into the website. I have business cards, word of mouth. It's just, I don't know if people want to spend the extra money or lack of interest. I can't figure out why something like that wouldn't catch on. I know I would want it at my party. Yeah.

The two things I would look at is one, it's great to have video. I'd put a few more videos up there beyond just one show and see if you can have somebody, I don't know how professional that first video is, but especially if you're doing corporate, they want to see professional, so it might be worth having help to record one live show that's done professionally, because it's a good reflection on your brand. I would also see if I can get some testimonials on video. Those 4 or 5 parties that you did, can you go back to some of the people in the audience and say, "Man, that Joey is crazy. He made our event the talk of the town. It was awesome. You got to get him came on board just so that, you said, it's new, people are scared, they're fearful, they don't want to make their company look bad. So having somebody come on and say how great you were can add a lot of value and reduce the risk for new people coming on board.

Right, that's it.

It's the risk. It's the trust factor. They don't trust it. It's like, I tell them about it, tell them it works, it's great, it's a lot of fun. And, ah, we'll just stick with the music. I'm like, all right, what am I going to do? I'm not going to force somebody to change their thoughts.

Right. And it's great that it's an upsell. You already have a business and this is an upsell for them. But I would get those— do you have testimonial videos?

No, I don't. But I could probably go back, like you said, because the people that I did the parties for were very happy. It would be no problem to contact them and get some kind of testimonial.

Yeah, I mean, that's a huge risk reduction. Because of course you're going to say how great everything is, right? No entrepreneur is going to say, oh, this is— I'm just trying to upsell you. I'm gonna take your money, you know. But having customers glow about how great you were adds a lot of value and really reduces my risk. If I'm on the fence and I see a great customer testimony or a couple of them from like a company that I might recognize, like, oh wow, he did it for those guys and they're really happy, okay, you know, let's try it out. The other thought I had was I would start working with event organizers, event planners, instead of trying to go direct to the corporate, because a lot of the bigger corporates, they don't do their own stuff. They hire event planners to manage it for them. And a good event planner will have multiple clients. So instead of trying to sell one client at a time, if you get one event planner to love what you're doing, he or she can sell you into tons of gigs, dozens of gigs, hundreds of gigs, because that's their job, right? So they could say, okay, well, here's a, you know, he can, Joey can get I can give you the music, but if you want something extra special, here's the video and here's testimonials to back it up. Maybe you should consider this complete package. Right, right, right.

That's what my goal was. My goal was to be different, to do something different.

I would go out and try to make a list of all those people who are event planners in the area. You'll get way better returns out of that than taking out a commercial on a radio station. Okay. I also branded something. Like call it something that I will remember, you know?

Right.

Like, I don't know what you're gonna call it, but something that's memorable, that sticks in my head as something extra special. Right. All right, Joey, good luck.

Okay, thank you, man, thank you.

Awesome, thanks for calling in. Hey, we're at the end of another hour. It's crazy how time flies. I wanna thank my producers, Josh and Christy. It was Christy's first show. She hit it out of the park. Thank you so much, Christy, for the great show. When I come back, I'm going to be on in 2 weeks again talking more strategies to help you grow your business. Until then, keep strong, keep grinding it out, keep hustling, and keep believing. Thanks, guys. Have a great couple weeks.