Finding Purpose After 60: How Starting a Business Changed Our Lives

Some people criticize us for doing what we're doing.

Like, you guys are nuts to start a business at your age. Why aren't you enjoying life?

Well, I'm enjoying life now more than I ever have. That's what some people don't get.

They see us like, oh God, you guys work so hard.

What you're doing now is what you were called to do. You found that at a young age. My role as an insurance broker was not my calling. It's what I did to prepare for this. And I believe there's a lot of people on the planet that do what they do as a means to get to this stage of life and find their true purpose. And I believe everyone has a true purpose bigger than who they are, and they just have to find it. You found it. You're lucky. There's no need for you to stop. You get so much joy out of it. This isn't work.

This isn't work.

Look at us. We're having fun.

We're going. I'm telling you.

And I feel the same way. And so does Jody. This is so much more fun than my career.

All right, here with Markham, part of our Mastermind program. And as part of that, we do a one-on-one together here in Toronto. So great to see you, man. Looking at your story, I mean, you've grown from 0 to 20,000 subscribers.

Yep.

In a pretty short amount of time. Faster than me.

Well, I learned because I learned from your—

it's been, what, 2 years for you?

2 years. May of '20.

I think it took me 6 years. I have to look 6 or 7 years to get the 20,000 subscribers all talking. Now, your, your channel centered around retirement.

Yeah, it's everything non-financial. So our, our 5 pillars that we talk about: physical wellness, mental wellness, relationships, spouse-partner relationship, and then wisdom sharing. What can we do in this phase of life to, to give back, to mentor, write a book, create a YouTube channel, do something to use all of our knowledge and experience that we've accumulated to help others.

Where are you thinking in terms of the next level of your business that I might be able to help with? If it's the YouTube channel, if it's the business side, probably both.

We, you know, Jody and I, I was an entrepreneur, started and sold several businesses, and the biggest one was an insurance agency where I was a fourth-generation family business owner. With my brother Chuck, and we sold that, gosh, 10 years ago already. And I stayed on for 5 years working for the public company, and I just kind of got tired of that, so left. And Jodi worked in corporate America and she had a senior-level position in a Fortune 200 company. And we tried traditional retirement for a year and we really got in trouble. I mean, we traveled the world and we had a great time and ate a lot and drank too much, gained weight, got tired of the hangovers every day and realized we were in trouble and had to pivot. Because really, for, for us, part of our inspiration is my dad, who retired at 65 and he was dead at 80. I mean, that's the short story, but basically drank himself to death. He was the, the Don Draper of the insurance industry, I call him. And he had a bar in his office and all of that. And He didn't invent the 3-martini lunch, but he perfected it. And the thing is, he took that into retirement, which was sad. So we didn't want that same kind of retirement. So we started to, to do this. And then I saw you on stage at a, at a meeting and started a YouTube channel a couple of years ago as a let's try this and see if that helps get the message out. Well, it did. And we're amazed at how well that we did. And now we really want to take it where we can influence millions and millions of more people. 20,000 subscribers is great. And every time we get a new subscriber, they like, oh my gosh, I can't believe I found your channel. This is amazing. So we don't do anything financial, but if you Google retirement planning, 99.9% of what you get is financial. So this, this thing that we're doing, we realize is helpful. It's actually saving people's lives. Had my dad seen our videos, I think he'd still be alive today. It's sad that he died, but he lives on through what Jody and I are trying to do. And I, I Googled a little bit this morning, like, how many YouTubers are there and how many channels. And there's— if you, you probably know the numbers better than I do, but there's 2.1 billion YouTube users in the world. I think there's a billion of them aged 35 and older around the world, all of these people don't really want to start a YouTube channel, don't really want to be a coach, don't want to be a doctor. They all think about retirement because at 35 you're funding your retirement, right? Your 401(k), maybe a pension, whatever it might be. But they're not thinking much about what they're going to do in retirement. They just want to stop working. But this phase of life is complicated and it's fraught with, you know, big issues that we all have when we leave our careers. Because during our career, we had fulfillment, we had an identity, we had a huge community, our days were filled, and boom, that goes away. And you're like, who am I now? Who am I going to hang out with? Because those people go away. What am I going to do all day? And a lot of people just wander through this phase of life and die prematurely. So how do you help us get in front of these billion people? I mean, these people need our help. Not all of them. Some people have it right. But, you know, how do we grow our channel? How do we become better? Like, we have Facebook and Instagram and YouTube. I, you know, I'm an insurance broker. I was really good at that. This Jody and I are learning as we go.

You guys are in retirement, you and Jody.

Yeah.

So how much do you want to turn this into a career now versus retirement? Like, how does it fit into retirement for you?

It's a great question because it makes me think that your perception of retirement might be you just kind of sit back, take it easy, and enjoy the fruits of your labor. But, but that's— that doesn't work. That's not enough for people. You're still very young. I don't know if you're thinking about retirement at all, but at some point you're going to want to maybe stop doing this.

I don't know.

But I think people, people are living longer. 50% of babies born today are going to live to be 100. They're not going to work till 60 and then stop. That's 40 years or longer. Jody and I have 30 years left. So to answer your question, I don't know. We're spending 20 hours a week on this, sometimes 30. Jody and I have this balance where 80% of my time is on the business and 20% is with the family. Jody's 80% with the family and 20% on the business. And in that family part, we still play golf, we do pickleball, we're meeting friends, we have a huge community. So I would say overall it's 60% of our time is this. Which is giving back and helping others, and 40% is not doing nothing but filling our day with fun stuff.

Yeah. I mean, I guess it's one of those things now that everybody has to define what retirement means for them.

Yeah.

I think there's definitely a preconception of what the word means that is evolving and shifting. And what it looked like for my parents is not going to be me, right? Dude, I'm going to do this and I'm going to be on a hospital bed at 120, still hosting masterminds and doing videos. And it's like, I'm never, you know, if that's retirement, then I'm already in retirement, you know, like I'm already doing what I want to do and I'll do it forever.

Well, you're lucky though. So you're lucky because what you're doing now is what you were called to do. You found that at a young age. My role as an insurance broker was not my calling. It's what I did to prepare for this. And I believe there's a lot of people on the planet that do what they do as a means to get to this stage of life and find their true purpose. And I believe everyone has a true purpose bigger than who they are, and they just have to find it. You found it. You're lucky. There's no need for you to stop. You get so much joy out of it. It's not work, right? Yeah, this isn't work.

This isn't work.

Look at us. We're having fun.

We're hanging out. I'm telling you.

And I feel the same way, and so does Jodi. This is so much more fun than my career.

Yeah. So why I ask that is like, you know, in terms of trying to help, I don't want to overload or give you something that then doesn't fit into your version of balance and happiness and retirement. So thank you. The thing that's going through my head now too is I wonder if that— you don't talk about finances.

No.

But this whole thing that you and Jody have figured out now with starting, I don't know if you would, I don't know what you call this enterprise that you're doing now, if it's your own business, if it's whatever you're gonna call it. But I think that is, that could definitely be a pillar in the content as well and showing people how to start the next chapter as part of your channel.

Yeah. Yeah. No, we talk a lot about, we call it wisdom sharing. So that component of people's lives.

But you're doing more than wisdom sharing.

Okay.

Like you're starting a business.

Yes.

Whether you call yourself an entrepreneur or you have your own business again, or however you want to, like the branding might even be something that you can own as, okay, we're starting our next chapter, which doesn't mean just sit on a golf course and 3-martini rule and everything else. But like you could start your own, like people, I've helped a lot of people who are coming out of retirement or who are going into retirement who are afraid to start a business.

Okay.

And have no idea how to do it and starting over because they just were told what to do for the past 40 years and now they have to think on their own and have their own, be responsible for finding clients and all the stuff that they have no idea how to do. So wisdom is a piece of it. That's the mission.

I think what I'm hearing then is a component of what we do could be just really direct. About, hey, one of the things you can do in this phase of life is start a business. And I have a friend, a very good friend of mine who I'm mentoring now, and he's been for 4 years. He's 72. For 4 years he's been looking for a job in his old industry, advertising, and he's struggling with it. He can't find it, but he wants a job. He wants something to do and all of that. And all of a sudden, and I said to him, just keep writing down what you're good at, what you think you want to do. This opportunity landed in his lap. It's a local, one of these local community magazines, you know, Live Here Now. And it's all about the town and you get advertisements, you get editorial comments. He's going to start that in his area because one doesn't exist and it's perfect for him. Perfect for him. But he never thought that would be something he could do.

Yeah.

He wanted to work for somebody. And starting your own business to go after, you know, Fortune 500 companies is hard. But there are businesses people can start. Someone just opened a retail store that is, you know, now I'm thinking about all the people I know that are doing this for stray cats. What's the word? Adopt a cat. I don't know. But so yeah, it's, she doesn't need to start the business, but that's her passion. So yeah, I guess it's interesting to think of that as a component of what we do.

Well, how much has this project contributed to your happiness as this next chapter in terms of your own?

Well, besides the happiness I get from living with Jodi, it's contributed a lot.

So living with her, but now you're working together.

Working together, which is interesting. And yeah, I'm coaching this guy to start in this magazine. Maybe you want to bring your wife in. And he said, I thought about that, but then I don't really know. We could coach on that because it's complicated, but it's great.

I think it's worth at least considering as a pillar.

Yeah, I like that.

5 pillars is your 6th pillar or whatever.

Yeah.

Or just alter what sharing wisdom looks like too, because yes, you're sharing wisdom, but there's, there's a lot of ways to do it.

Yeah.

And one of the biggest things that people struggle with is starting a new business, feeling like they can't even what you're doing, starting the YouTube channel. You can start a YouTube channel in your 60s. Are you crazy? What? Are you crazy? Like, but most people would think that way. People come into retirement. No, that's just for the kids. I come— I'm not going to get on front of a camera. Meanwhile, like, you have the greatest wisdom to share. There's lots of these videos that go viral of talking to a 90-year-old about life advice. Yeah, there's a lot of wisdom, but people just feel like they can't. They don't know how to do it. All that. I don't know. I don't know technology. I didn't grow up with this stuff. But yeah, all of those things that you had to overcome and create. And now you've got a successful YouTube channel teaching other people how they can start a business as well in their 60s, 70s, etc.

I love that idea. It's interesting. You know, I think everyone has a book in them for sure. I just finished my book, so I'm excited for that to come out before the end of the year. Everyone can write a book. I don't know if they should write a book, but they all have stories in their lives to tell. And even if they spend a year doing that, write letters to your kids, to your grandkids. I know a woman who's written a letter to her grandchildren every day for a year, and she's gonna put that in a book and then give it to them when they're of a certain age. Just wisdom.

But, but again, a different pillar.

Yeah, a different pillar.

Because most people write a book, there's two reasons to write a book. Either you just wanna put your story out and share your wisdom, or you actually wanna turn it into something and, and build a business around it, use it to most people who write a book are not then becoming speakers and building a coaching business and everything else on top of their book. It's like, I've got these— I wrote, you know, letters to my granddaughter every week, or I—

That's not a business.

It's not a— but it's still a very valid pursuit and a noble goal and a ton of work to put in to create the book. Cool. That's wisdom sharing. But it's not— once you're done after the year of writing the book, what do you do? Do you write another book? Do you do some other kind of wisdom sharing? Because you could then start a business.

I like you're pushing me on this because as we're talking, I'm thinking about it a little bit. I'd certainly need to talk to Jodi about it. But yeah, I mean, some people, some people criticize us for doing what we're doing. Like, you guys are nuts to start a business at your age. Why aren't you enjoying life? Well, I'm enjoying life now more than I ever have. That's what some people don't get. They see us like, oh God, you guys work so hard. It's not work. It isn't. But yeah, so starting the right kind of business, having the courage and the idea and give them some ways in which to figure out what that might be is a great idea.

If you had it as a pillar.

Yes.

There's a lot of ways to break up that content. It could be you sharing, you and Judy get on camera and say, here are the 10 ways to start a business in your 60s. Or in retirement, right? It could be like a how-to video. It could be a documentation video where you're sharing your journey and what you're currently working on and how you're trying to grow your business. It could be a coaching video where you have entrepreneurs or recent retirees come on who are struggling to start their business, you know, maybe your friends.

Yeah.

And, and then you coach them, right? But it's all under the pillar of we're starting a business. Starting a business as opposed to just health and some of the other colors.

Yeah, I like that. It's a good idea.

Uh, so anyway, we took a little tangent there, but it was fun.

That was good. It was fun.

How important for what you're doing now is the revenue growth of this project?

Well, it hasn't been, which is—

and is that okay?

Well, yes and no. Uh, yes, because we started this as, as a hobby and a passion, and we've funded it ourselves and that's fine. We're blessed that we can do that. But now it's getting to the point where really to take it to the next level, our expenses really need to go up. We're going to do more video, which we've talked about. That's an added expense. You know, the way we're doing it right now, we could just keep going. And that's what I said to you. You know, we go from 20 subscribers to 20,000 to 30 to 40. We've decided After reading that great book that Benjamin Hardy and Dan Sullivan put out, 10x is easier than 2x. We want 1 million subscribers in 5 years, so that'll take more resources. So now we need to think a little bit more about how can we create products and things like that that people can buy to help fund this next level for our YouTube channel.

Okay. So there's a couple things to think about. The first is the content cadence, the schedule coming out, 'cause you guys are doing a video a week.

A video a week plus the short, which—

Plus the short.

We could do shorts every day, but—

Yeah, and that helps a little bit. Honestly, if the goal was only subscribers, like plant the flag, this is the only thing that matters, shorts is gonna be your fastest way to get there. They won't convert to anything. And they won't, you won't be impacting really and if they even subscribe, they probably won't watch your long-form content. They're not gonna buy any of your stuff for the most part. So a lot of channels have built up to a million subscribers, but they're making no money off of their channel. So the goal is, I just want a million subscribers, I don't care.

No, no, we wanna change people's lives.

Okay, so shorts are fine, but this is why again, I asked you how, you know, the terms of workload or, workload, right? Because if we have to go from 1 video a week to 3 videos a week, how does that fit into your life? Is that doable? Does that feel now life is out of balance? We can't do it.

It depends. And when I say it depends, you know, our first video 2.5 years ago, it took a half a day to write the script. It was word for word and we had to get it right. And then we— it took us a half— another half a day to film a 10-minute video. Now we do a script and it's one page, it's bullets. And, you know, we create the content pretty easy. Now we film it. There's, there's no edits. You saw the one where I fell down. We just kept going.

That's great.

If Jody and I can do a long-form video where we're actually just having a conversation and we've talked about this, about a topic like even starting a business, we could put together 10 points that are important to us. We don't need anything else other than Well, let's talk about how we decided what business was right for us. And we would just talk about it. That'd be easy. That's, we, every morning we have coffee for half an hour and we chat about stuff, chat about the kids, chat about the business, chat about golf game. Now that might not all be interesting to our followers, but we could, a lot of times it is pretty interesting and it's pretty deep on some things that we don't agree on, some things we struggle with. Those new videos would be a lot easier for us than the ones we have now that we want to make sure we're delivering good, valuable content that's specific and has a call to action. These are more, you know, make-believe. We're having a dinner together and we're talking about a topic. So short answer is I think we could do that.

Yeah.

If you said you need to do 3 more videos like you're doing now, That's a lot of work.

So no, definitely not do 3 more like you're doing now. I would also challenge the way that you're doing it now.

Okay.

And see if that could be done. Now it's already gotten faster compared to 2 years ago, I'm sure. My first video took me a long time to make anyway. It's just a normal issue.

Yeah.

I think if you can get to the point where a video is, if it's a set video, powerful opinion.

Right.

And then bullet form. Of what you're going to talk about and then lead with a powerful opinion.

And that's what we do now. I mean, it's one page on the teleprompter. So it's— yes. So it is easier now. We can put a script together in 20 minutes.

Okay. Like 5 minutes.

5 minutes. We'll get it to 5.

Powerful opinion. And then what do you believe about starting a business in your 60s that most people don't believe?

Number one, that it can be done. Number 2, that there's things they could do that people would find valuable. Number 3, it's, it's not as hard as you think. I mean, you clearly couldn't start a business with the idea that you're going to hire 100 employees. It's got to be something that you could do with 1 or 2 other people or by yourself. The main thing people need to think about if they're starting a business at this age is what is the one thing or the two things or the three things that I know that I need to teach other people. Mistakes.

So the only thing you're missing is the skill set to turn that into something repeatable with powerful opinion and then knowledge. So I asked you, what do you believe about somebody at 67 starting a business that other people don't believe? And you said that it can be done, right? So you said like two things that it can be done. You said something else.

It's not as hard as you think.

It's not as hard as you think.

Yeah.

So, and then you went into advice.

Okay.

Think about the things that you can do that can bring value to other people, right? And that's where it started to go on.

Right.

The only skillset difference. So I asked you a question and you got 2 answers right away, like 30 seconds. Pick one and just lean in on that answer. So it's either, you can do it, or was it—

It's easier than you think.

Or it's easier than you think.

Yeah.

Like, so you started it, you started it. Starting the business at 65 years old is easier than you think. That's your opening sentence. Put that on teleprompter. Like, write that down, put it on teleprompter. What comes after that? You may think that you're too old and that All these young kids are doing it, but I'm telling you, we've done it and we did it on a YouTube channel and it's way easier than you think. And in this video, we're going to show you how to actually go off and do it because there's great ideas sitting inside you right now. And whatever you're speaking from the heart, right? But one point, three sentences where you gave me three points and you went deep on the how. We all want to talk about the how, But the how doesn't matter yet. You could talk forever about the how. So 3 sentences on the powerful opinion.

Okay.

So all that's missing to make these faster is just that little tweak in the skillset.

So powerful opinion, give it some context. And the third is tell me what happens to me if I don't do it.

So you already know the model. So there's raise the stakes.

I do. Memorize. Yeah.

Yeah. So, but that's, so then just do it, right? Yeah. And then the advice. You could like, that's all on a—

I learned that from a brilliant person, by the way. What do you call it? The powerful content idea you've got?

Perfect thought leadership template.

There you go. Yeah.

Power of opinion, context, senses, raise the stakes. But even if you don't like memorize those three, use that structure.

Use that structure, yeah.

Three sentences. So what do you believe about X that other people don't believe? And then tell me the most important thing. And if you're going to be doing thinking time over your coffee or whatever with Jody, what is the most important thing that people don't believe about this thing that we're about to talk about? And maybe it's that you can do it or that it's easier than you think or that whatever. What is the one most important thing? And just sit on that one thing for 3 sentences and nail that. But as you do that more often, it won't take you— I mean, you still did it here pretty quickly. And the more you do it, the faster it's gonna get for future videos too.

Plus, honestly, I have such a huge advantage over solopreneurs because I have a partner. And Jody sits next to me and stuff comes to her head and it comes out and we just flow so well together. And, you know, we bounce off of each other and we have different ideas on what we're gonna say, but it's so creative. So it really is helpful. I like, I only have to do, 50% of the work. She does the other half.

Great.

Which is so easy.

We're here making a video. It's kind of meta, right? We're sitting down for 20 minutes and this will be a 20-minute video, right? There's no prep.

No. You know, and if I had to do it alone and just sit here for 20 minutes, I'd be like, okay, what do I want to say? So yeah.

But you still could, like if you had to, you could make a 20-minute video from 5 minutes prep. Powerful opinion, story, 3 bits of advice. So even before going to the advice, story. Tell me the story about the 72-year-old guy who was trying to get a job or whatever and then found this other thing that he—

Landed in his lap, yeah. Yeah.

That's a good story. Tell me that story.

That's a good story.

But, and you've got tons of stories.

Sure.

Your story, Jody's story, your dad's story, a friend's story. Like depending on what the opinion is, you tell a different story.

The story of the guy that I saw 2 days ago, sitting out in front of the local gin mill. 76-year-old guy, very successful, has a huge business. But every day— no, it was 3 o'clock— every day he goes to the bar at 3 o'clock in the afternoon to drink. And I'm not— this isn't anti-drinking. It's just that I said to him, well, what are you up to tomorrow? Well, I don't know. You know, if I— I'm thinking of going to Florida for a long weekend. I really would love to go for the whole winter, but I can't because I have this company. And if I sell it, I don't know what I'm going to do. So he keeps the company, yet he just isn't living life fulfilling. He's just not taking care of himself. And it's sad for me to see that because he's a brilliant guy, smart, he has family, but he's wasting away his life. I'm not judging him, but the fact of the matter is, if he could turn his life around a little bit and maybe do something different, sell his company, have all these financial resources, do some good in the world, that he'd feel better.

So on the teleprompter, that's just 76-year-old man outside. I know you could talk to it.

I could.

And the most important thing is that you tap into how you're feeling about him when you're on camera, as opposed to reading off a script of what you said.

Let me ask you a question. One of the things— and Jodi's the researcher of the couple. So how important are facts, figures, statistics, surveys that were done to support things that we say?

All depends on what you want your brand to be.

Okay.

Some people lean heavily into that. Like if I look in thought leadership, Mel Robbins does that a lot, right? Mel loves the latest study and the latest research. It's like, according to Harvard, yada, yada, yada, yada.

She has a team of people that throw that stuff at her.

Yeah, but it's great.

She loves that. She loves that.

She loves data and knowing the studies and then putting her spin on it to get it to the masses.

Jody likes that. So she could be that person that brings that in.

But it's not important. Because lots of people, when do I say statistics? I barely remember, you know, my address, let alone statistics, right? Like to look at my phone number, I have to go to my phone and like see what the phone, my own phone number is, right?

So, but I hear that I've read that you need to appeal to both audiences. Some people like statistics, some people don't. They like just the, so.

Sure. But like there's tons of people who want to hear the message. And the last thing you want to do is force yourself to be a statistics guy, and that then attracts a stats audience when you don't actually want to be a stats guy.

That's good. Yeah, I like that.

So you shouldn't do it.

Yeah.

Because you don't care enough about the stats.

I get stuck in it too.

Yeah.

I get down the rabbit hole.

It's not worth it. You memorize if it's 78 or 72 and like, it's just.

Yeah.

But if Jodi loves it and that's part of her thing, cool. She can bring it up. But it's not required at all for you to build a successful channel.

That's good to know. Yeah. So these longer form videos could be really either around the same topics or something like starting a business. You know, we could do 3 on those and 3 on something else.

It still fits into your pillars.

Yeah.

And I think having the freedom to explore new content formats.

Yeah.

So it's not always the same thing I think is worthwhile doing. And expect it to suck at the beginning and it to be slow and maybe awkward and it won't get results. But was it fun? Because if it's fun, you can tweak and improve and get better, right? Like you don't just—

I think we're better that way, off the cuff, natural, authentic, because we mess around with each other a little bit. When we had the 10-minute video structure, we're in a box and sometimes she's kicking me going like, you know, we gotta, you know, we're at 15 minutes now, should be 10. I think we'd have no problem talking longer and I think we'd have frankly more fun. I think we look forward to it.

That's a good sign.

Yeah.

So you got the extra pillar.

Yes.

With the business material content. And then attempting to, even with your current format, it's great that you went from 2 hours scripting to 20 minutes. Now how do you go from 20 minutes to 5?

5 minutes, yeah.

And then be able to do more videos in a day. That brings tons of value and, and is fun for you guys to create as well.

Yeah, cool.

Let's go.

All right, that was awesome. Thank you. Thank you, Evan. It was fun.

Appreciate it. All right, to watch me coach another Mastermind member one-on-one, check the video right there next to me. I think you'll love it. Continue to believe, and I'll see you there.

It's one year now I left my accounting job, right? I was working at the CPA firm, and I was on a clear path to becoming a partner in firm. Like, I felt like I was living somebody else's life because looking at them sitting behind the desks, nobody looked happy.