How to DEAL With Being an INTROVERT! | #InstagramLive

It's not that we hate people, it's that we hate shallow conversations.

Yeah.

We want something that's deep and meaningful.

I forgot how I was going to open up my speech. Serving others is hardwired into us. It makes you feel good.

How do you find your purpose?

Hey, hey, it's happening!

Hi! I was not expecting this, so I'm caught a little bit off guard.

Well, I wasn't either, but here we are.

Yes!

So let me ask you something.

So I went to the person that says I'm INFJ too, which I think is how we first connected, or you commented on something I did, or I commented on something you did. I forget, way back. So Thursday— so today's Thursday. Thursday is my extrovert day, even though I'm super introverted. Thursday is where I just put on my extrovert hat and all day long I'm doing interviews and podcasts and Hangouts and IG Lives and I just find it easier and I don't know enough about INFJ, but maybe this is actually really helpful or maybe just I'm super weird, but I like having, I like knowing that just one day a week I get to do all my interviews and just carry the energy. I actually gain more energy over the day by being just in that mode and I don't have to worry about writing my next book or making videos or anything else. Is that— do you find that that is like, one, are you the same way in that you like having different things on different days? And two, is that like an INFJ thing or is that just Evan Carmichael's a weird duck?

No, I think it's definitely an INFJ thing because it takes us a lot of energy to be able to put ourselves out there and to connect with other people. So scheduling it all in one day definitely helps a lot. And I need to be a lot more intentional with that. For sure. Um, I usually do a lot of it on Thursday too because I have a couple of things in the evening that I already have scheduled, so I'm like, all right, let's just get it out of the way. Um, and plus it takes us so much time to recharge that it's like, why not do it all at once and then have the whole rest of the week to recover from it? And I also like knowing what's coming, right, so I can be prepared for it. I like that routine too.

So someone—

so, so Maxie— Max— Maxie wrote, bet you're tired after your extra work day. Here's the thing. So for me, it's just kicking it off. That's the only thing that really is the— this is the hard part, right? So I just finished doing— I have a YouTube course and I just finished going live in that group. And leading up to that, I'm nervous and worried and like, who's going to show up and what questions are going to ask? But after the end, like, that was amazing, right? And so then I see Sarah go live, like, I want to join in, let's go live together, Sarah, right? And like, it— it— I actually gain more energy. So, so by the end of the day, I'm probably gonna crash, but, but come like 2 o'clock, 3 o'clock, 4 o'clock, whoever I'm talking to, uh, I'm actually bringing the whole energy of the— I'm bringing Sarah's energy all the way forward to the end of the day. But it's just getting started that I find really difficult. So that's why I have one whole day for it, because if I did bits of it every day, then I'd have the challenge of getting started every day as opposed to just starting once a week, and then I have that whole day to carry the energy forward.

Yeah, I used to have the same thing. In fact, I used to tell people that I hate people, like I don't like being around people because it's just so draining and it's so much. But once I started my podcast and I started doing a lot of interviews earlier this year with INFJs and other people who are intuitive. And it was the same thing when I was getting ready to do an interview. I'm like, oh, what am I doing? I don't want to do this. This is really hard. And I would have to force myself to actually do it. But during the conversation, I could feel my energy level rising. And by the end of the conversation, I'm the same with you. I'm like, yes, that was so awesome. Let's go do another one because it was so cool. It's It's the connection that we're looking for and connecting on things that we're passionate about and talking to people who care about what we're talking about. It's that deep, those deep conversations that we really want. It's not that we hate people, it's that we hate shallow conversations.

Yeah.

We want something that's deep and meaningful.

Yeah, in my language it would be like serve, right? You're built to serve. You want to know that the work you're doing matters and is serving other people. Yeah, 1,000%. Like if you woke up and felt like the work that you did matters, I think that's such a great gift, and you're willing to— you love actually talking to people knowing that you're helping them. We want to help others, but we're afraid of others and their judgments and opinions and everything. And so that's the constant battle.

Yeah, I'm with you.

I was on an airplane late last year. I was speaking at an event in Puerto Rico, and I was on an airplane, and I hate talking to the guy next the next one in the airplane, right? Like, hate it. I never do it. I remember everything about this guy, that he woke up at, you know, 2 in the morning to catch a flight to get here, and he likes his coffee decaf with 1 sugar and 1 cream and all this stuff. But he's trying to make small talk, and it's like, I'm just trying to not be rude, right?

It's like, yeah, let me just—

let me do my thing. I hate talking about the weather, the cushiony airplane, or like whatever. But then when I landed in Puerto Rico, I found out that he was at the same event that I was speaking at.

He was.

And then, and then I saw him the next day and then we started talking about his business and how I can help him. Then it was an instant click because if you know that, that you can help them, you can serve them, it shifts the whole conversation because now there's a lot of depth and meaning, much more than just, hey, so Why are you going to Puerto Rico? And just trying to make small talk.

Yeah, yeah. So can I ask you, I haven't done a lot of live events, but that's like the next thing that I want to do. In fact, I was scheduling some right before we got quarantined, which was terrible timing. But it's terrifying for me to talk in front of people, especially in person, and I'm hoping it's going to be a significant amount of people, right? At least you know, a few to begin with. I used to have a job where I had to speak in front of like 25 people, but it was kind of a rehearsed thing, so I knew what to say every single week.

Yeah.

How do you deal with that? I'm assuming it's a lot more draining than just being live on video. So how do you deal with that?

Uh, so I don't know that I call it draining. It's definitely a lot more stressful. And again, maybe you're the INFJ master, so I just can speak from my experience. But last year I was in Arizona speaking at an event, and Dean Bratziosky and Brendan Burchard put on this event every year. They had a couple thousand people. It was, you know, Eric Thomas and them and me. I was like, Eric Thomas and I were the only external speakers kind of brought in to speak.

A couple thousand people.

And 10 minutes before going on stage is a super lonely time. Like if you're in a backstage at a big event, nobody talks to the speaker before they're about to go on because they don't want, you know, it's just like leave them in their zone.

So, right.

I decided I was gonna go up with no slides just because, right? So now I gotta speak for an hour with no slides. So there's nothing even to save me. It's like, oh right, yeah, I'm talking about that thing. And I forgot what I was going to start with. So I was backstage kind of pacing, practicing, just trying to remember what I was going to do. And I forgot how I was going to open up my speech. And I just had this now mental image in my head of me going up and bombing and failing and disappointing everybody. And it's all my fault. And holy cow, this sucks. And I haven't had an anxiety attack like that in a long time to that degree. I'm always worried about disappointing people, but not to where it's like crippling and I forget. And it's still service that saved me. So I peeked out of the curtain and I looked at the audience and I said, I'm not— I'm here for them. Like, I'm not here for me. This isn't even about me. I have information that can help those people that Brendan doesn't know and Dean doesn't know and Eric Thomas doesn't know. I have knowledge that can help those people. Stop being selfish and get out there and help them. And that calmed me down. Maybe for others it just adds more pressure, but for me it's like, oh, it's about serving people and I have knowledge that can help. That is the thing that calmed me down, made me remember what I was going to do when I got on stage. And then went off and they ended up giving me extra time on stage because it was going so well, which is great. My favorite part of those things, though, isn't even the stage work. It's the afterwards. And this seems so weird for an INFJ, or maybe it's normal. I don't know. I stay in the hallway for 5 or 6 hours after the event. Like, for me, the joy isn't the speech. It's the one-on-ones afterwards. And I'll stay until the whole thing is done. I'll go home back to my hotel and like die afterwards, but I'm so in the zone of helping people that I'll forget to eat and forget to go to the bathroom and not notice that I'm running a fever because I'm just in the zone of helping people so much. And I love the speaking, not for the speaking. I love the speaking as the setup to have people come and ask me questions after so I can help them.

Yeah.

So That's what I do.

Yeah, I love helping people too. And my biggest fear as well is disappointing people. Every time I think about my podcast or the courses that I'm doing or, you know, just being on Instagram, it's like, okay, I don't want to disappoint anybody. And every time I get terrified, I go back to that too. I'm here to help people, and if I can just help one person, then that's all that matters. That's why I started my Instagram account. I thought if I could just help one person And I never expected there to be 50,000 people on my Instagram account ever.

We're just starting. It's just starting, Sarah. It's happening.

I did, because I just started it like a year and a half ago. So yeah, I'm, I'm definitely a lot newer at this than you are. You've been doing this for a long time.

YouTube, yes. Instagram, I'm a little bit newer. I went hardcore on Instagram maybe 2 years ago. YouTube, 11 years I've had my, my main channel for. So yeah, it's pretty, it's pretty wild and crazy. So here's the thing though, like if you're afraid of disappointing people but you also want to serve, that's where most people get held back because serving involves other people. You can't serve without helping other people. But if you're afraid of disappointing them, then it's like having your foot on the gas and the brake at the same time. Like, you know, you're capable of more. You know, you want to do this thing, but you're so afraid that you don't go anywhere and you're just spinning your wheels. And so that reminded to myself, at least, is like, this is service. This is to help somebody. My intention is good. They may not get it. It may not work. I may, you know, you may start a podcast and it sucks and you may go live and make a mistake, but the intention is good. As long as the intention is positive, the intention to serve, almost always that's what ends up happening.

Yeah. So I want to ask you a really big question because I know you probably don't have a lot of time. So many people ask me, how do you find your purpose? So I'm going to ask you that. How do you find your purpose?

So your purpose comes from your pain, right? It's why I wrote— this is why I wrote Built to Serve, right? I mean, because I've got asked that question so many times and it's not that difficult. It doesn't require years of meditation or journaling or anything else. You just think about what is the most painful moment for you as a human?

And not like I broke my arm or something, not physical pain, but emotional pain.

When you felt the lowest of the low, you felt worthless, you felt like you have no, no, you know, you're no point in life. And you've grown from that, you've come out of that. You're not where you want to be yet because we're constantly growing. But you're way better than you used to be, whether that was 6 months ago, or a year ago, 5 years ago.

There's lots of people who currently are who you used to be, and your purpose is to go help them, and you represent hope to them.

And people will default to thinking, well, I'm no Tony Robbins, or I'm no Brendon Burchard, or whoever. Soon they're going to say, I'm no Sarah Kuhn, but— You can help, right? Like, you can, you can help the person who you used to be. If you think back to that person who you used to be 5 years ago, you can help that person in a way that Evan Carmichael or Tony Robbins or whoever can't. And so there's, it's just understanding that there's lots of people who currently are like that. Serving others is hardwired into us. It makes you feel good.

We all know it.

They've done functional MRIs on people's brains and found that serving others hits the same part of the brain as having food and having sex, which are also important as humans. And so it's like it's hardwired into you to serve and to help. But there's a difference between just serving, like buying the coffee for the person behind you in line or holding the door for somebody. These little moments, these acts of of service, good deeds, versus a deep fulfillment of helping other people go through the thing that you went through. So I love helping entrepreneurs because I struggled so much as an entrepreneur. I quit on my first business partner for a day. I came back the next day, but that was like the lowest moment in my life. And so I want to make it easier for other entrepreneurs not to struggle and suffer as much as I did. I want to make it easier for introverts to step up. Like, how does an introvert get on stage and talk to 2,000 people and have a YouTube channel with 300 million views and all that?

I don't know.

Like, I'm figuring it out.

I mean, I've done it and I want to get even bigger. And just sharing that can be an inspiration, hopefully, to other introverts as well. So the pain that you went through can either define you from a negative and you stay you stay lost and trapped, or can they find you in a positive and say, hey, this is my chance to serve and give back and help everybody else who's currently suffering with this same thing?

Yes, for sure. That's, that's exactly how I found my purpose too. That's why I started my channel, is because I was lost as far as what my personality type was and learning about it. And I thought, hey, if this information can help somebody else, then yeah, I need to put it out there. I need to do that. And I was one of those people who thought I didn't want to help other people. I read that about our personality and I was like, that's not really me. I'm more of a stay in the, you know, behind the scenes type of person. But then once I started helping people, then I really found a passion for it. And I realized that's what I want to do. And I want to do more of it and more of it and more of it. And pushing myself past all of those fears and insecurities is difficult. But then you go back to your why. And yeah, it's worth it.

I love it.

Look what's happened. You're at 50,000. You just got the lives. It's great. I love it. Anyway, I saw you go live and like, this is awesome. I want to, I want to hop in and just spread some love and thank you for the conversation. And I'm so pumped to see you continue to grow where you've come from in such a quick amount of time. And I'm so pumped to see where you take it in the next year and a half.

Yeah, thank you. And thank you so much for all the inspiration. I love your book. I'm telling everybody about it. Yeah, thanks for joining us. I really appreciate it.

Amazing.

Thank you, Sarah. Bye.

Bye.

Here we go.

Hi, Evan.

What's happening? There it is.

George is a part of my Movers and Makers program. And as part of that, we're doing this IG Live together too. So welcome aboard, man. How can I help? What's on your mind?

First of all, thank you very much for the opportunity to meet you. I actually got to see you live. I was at an Eddie Panero event in Miami in 2019.

I got to see you in person.

I said, you know what, someday I would to work with Evan, and here we are. Thank you very much, Evan.

I love it, man.

So key things I would tell you, first and foremost, I, uh, I'm not an IG guy. This is my first Instagram. That's why I had tools I didn't even know. Um, I'm on YouTube. I have 26,000 subscribers there. Big fan of all your work throughout the years. And, uh, quite frankly, uh, I'm in the blockchain space, and I genuinely— what I do is blockchain, Bitcoin, and crypto. And, uh, I am, I'm an instructor. I have over 160,000 students worldwide in blockchain, Bitcoin, crypto, and I want to expand my impact by being more active, being able to create more content like you, being more open, being able to share. Um, among my channels at 26,000 subscribers, I would love to someday be like you, right? So that's exactly what I want to talk about. How do I expand my impact worldwide?

I love it. Let's go, man. Uh, what are you selling? Let's start with that. Are you selling training courses, coaching?

I have, yes, I have a series of courses. I have a series of certifications also. So a perfect example would be like my courses include Blockchain and Bitcoin Fundamentals, Cryptocurrency Fundamentals, Metaverse Fundamentals, NFT Fundamentals, right? And then there's advanced level courses, how to create your own metaverse, programmers, developers, right? So there's a whole series of courses and then there's certifications that I sell for people that take multiple courses, then they take a certification. These are internationally credentialed and that's what we offer. Right? So the key goal is what I want is to be able to share more of the content like I do. I publish on a weekly basis. I publish brand new videos and it's constantly like, what is Bitcoin? Why is blockchain the future? You know, what is cryptocurrency? Things like that is how I share. But then the goal is to bring people on board into this universe called Blockchain Institute of Technology where we can help people learn how to move this whole blockchain movement forward. That's really what I believe in.

Got it. I love, I love the energy. I love the excitement. You can tell you're really into this stuff, which is awesome.

I even got my lava lamps, which by the way are part— when people think about cryptocurrency, it's the cryptography and crypto. Lava lamps are a key component of cryptography. Many people don't know that.

Okay, I love it. How much do you like covering the news and what's going on right now?

I have not done as much as I could, mostly because there's so much volatility and a lot of the content that I've been focusing on is teaching something, as opposed to saying this is what's happening in the world, as opposed to taking a position on things. Like, for example, something huge that's happening is Ethereum is moving to proof of stake. In my world, that's a massive thing. I haven't really— I haven't really focused on that because I'm teaching people how to create new cryptocurrencies, and right, so it's, it's a choice. I really don't talk a lot about news.

So, you know, it's what you're doing now. It's like, how do we have a bigger impact? The question is more like, how much do you enjoy covering that stuff and having an opinion?

Well, here's the thing. The challenge with opinions that I've always had is that in opinions, sometimes, always, someone's on the other side of the opinion, right? So I personally, I'm not a big fan of what's going on with proof of stake with Ethereum. And I'm like, I think it's something that really hurts against the whole concept of decentralization. I never thought Ethereum could just switch like that from one to the other one and screw an entire industry of Ethereum miners. But that's a personal opinion. In the process, I'll piss off a lot of people if I position that. Now the question is, is that necessarily a bad thing? And that's the key goal. When you take a position, some people say you're on that side, you're not on this side, therefore I don't talk to you anymore, right?

And listen, that's part of being an expert, you know, like in you teaching and training things. It's, it's— you could have just reporting the news and sharing a little bit without pissing people off. What news anchors maybe used to be, of just reporting on what's happening and even taking it as an example of what people should learn and know. El Salvador being on Bitcoin, pros and cons, how's it happening for them, an entire country moving there. Look, this is the future of where Bitcoin's going, even if it's not working out so well for them right now, this is still the future.

—if—

and there's still a lot of good highlights going on. It's just people don't see those highlights. There's a lot of good stuff going on. Well, right.

So that could be— that could be you. Yeah, that's a good point. A lot of— that's a great point that people aren't seeing anymore. You could be the guy. Here's George telling people. So it doesn't have to be pissing people off. It's definitely a brand. If I made videos talking about the top 10 stupidest things Kanye West has said, that video would blow up. But I don't want to make that video. It's not part of my brand, right? Now, some people still hate on my video. Some people will— even if it's all positive, you'll still always have somebody who doesn't like the thing that you're doing. Right, sure. As long as the intention going in isn't to piss people off, you could talk about Ethereum moving to their ETH2 everything and your take on it, pros and cons, without— you can still acknowledge what other people— like, hey, this is actually screwing people over who are Ethereum miners, and now they don't have a business anymore. That really sucks, right? And I still think it's like good for where the industry is going. Like, you can recognize the other side without saying— that's cool. You could have— it's just all the intent and how you bring it up. Sure, you still might piss some people off, but if you said, and all you losers who are ETH mining, you guys, you knew this was coming, right? Like, it's a completely different approach. Yeah, yeah, that's cool. So there's so much education that needs to happen in this space. Most people still don't know what it is. You see Ethereum walking on the street, nobody, like most people, 98% of people have no idea what it is. So there's definitely like, you're on a super hot topic, right? How I like to think about content is it's great to build an audience, but it's better if you understand the business model to, hey, let's get an audience where you can then convert to the thing that you're trying to sell, right? So if you're trying to sell teaching certification education, then it's great for you to make your videos once a week. What I'd love to see you do is add in some coaching videos. So you take selling—

like literally with human beings, like what you're doing right now with me?

This is it. Yeah, exactly.

This is it.

Yeah. I've never done that. And the fact is I do calls on that. I just never have actually turned it into part of the teaching curriculum.

Well, that's an interesting take. You might be able to do double duty, like your current calls, maybe you can record them and that becomes content for the channel. Or it's something new that you're bringing in, but it becomes part of the marketing in that you take all the different things that you're doing. You're fortunate enough to now actually have a— you're not just starting up and have no students and trying to figure out how to get this thing off the ground, right? You have people been through various levels of your programs all the way up to certification is like the highest level of what you would sell, right? Right. Yes, absolutely. So you can take some— how many people have gone through the certification?

Well, let's put things in context. There's different certifications. So there's some certifications that have hundreds of people. There's some certifications that have thousands of people, right? Now, they also vary depending on price points, right? So I mean, and we got to say, I got people that are certified from World Bank, Ernst Young, Central Bank of Curaçao, Fannie Mae. So I have huge companies. But many of the people are just everyday people that just really like— they really wanted to get into blockchain, and they want to get into the blockchain space, and they want to learn. How can I apply to these jobs? Well, you take these courses, and you can apply for these jobs, which is a great opportunity.

How much one-on-one are you doing with these people?

It depends on the certification level. So, uh, what I have— I have a community. For example, there's a Facebook group where they're able to interact between them. And then depending on the certification, there's a certain number of one-on-ones that we do. And of course, they have any questions that we do some one-on-ones. Now, mind you, I'm not against it. The question is, would that be a scalable approach? Because right now you're able to give me a little bit of your time, but your time is really, really valuable. How much one-on-one can you really give?

Right. It's scalable through content. Right. So here's the thing. If George— George is really busy. George doesn't do one-on-ones. You can even stop doing one-on-ones. It's just George's trainers who are coming in doing all certification. But to get— actually, George is launching a new show where he will coach whatever you're struggling with. You cannot buy 45 minutes of George's time or however long you want it to be.

Like this show is going to be a part of the show. Yeah, that makes sense. Here it is.

So if you've been through the certification and you want 25 minutes with, with George to answer whatever questions you have to help you take your, your training, your learning to the next level, do you want to come on and be with him? And some people will say no. Cool. And some people will be like, what, I get time with George? This is insane. Of course. Like we're doing right now. Well, like what we're just doing right now. Some people say no and some people say yes. And again, people will go on Jerry Springer. They'll go on your show.

Right.

One thing, while we're here, I want to ask you a different question. This is new for me. This is— I don't do Instagram because I haven't done Instagram. I've spent time on my YouTube, my chat, my YouTube channel. I'm not where you're at, but I'm at 26,000 subscribers. So I think of— when I think of publishing content, I think I got to create content so I can publish on YouTube. Now I've created a new process to be able to do Shorts, and I'm doing 5 Shorts per week, something Monday to say, Monday through Friday, and then I publish a brand new video full length on Thursdays. I have two YouTube channels. I have the George Levy brand and the Blockchain Institute brand. So for instance, you had a hard time today because you didn't know what— I'm talking to George, and I was in your audience, but this IG is Blockchain Institute. It's not really George Levy, right? So the question is, am I doing myself a disservice by diluting my brand between both brands? That's what I'm trying to think.

It's a branding thing. It's also an effort and time thing. A personal brand is easier to scale Right. People love a face. People like— people relate. When you first joined, I didn't know who you were. I didn't, you know, but then like the energy and the excitement, and George cares so much about blockchain, like it's great, right? So I want to learn— like, people want to learn from a passionate instructor. And if even if it's not that, even if it's not you teaching everything, your team, it's like you're the guy at the top who then recruits the instructors who are going to teach it. So it's a lot. Nobody has a ton of association to a logo. Typically it's like you, you're the guy. Um, makes sense. So it's easy to make it under your brand. But in terms of the content, just to finish the point on, on the certification people coming through who you're going to do lives with, it doesn't have to be a live like this. It could still be on Zoom. Do Zoom. You've already got a nice looking studio. The other person coming on doesn't have to— everybody is now Zoom capable. Sure. We've all been trained. No, and I do Zooms all the time.

I do Zooms all the time. This is a new creature for me, but okay, I could do Zoom.

Sure. Do it on Zoom. And here's what's going to happen. They're going to come on and you're going to say, hey, here's Susan. She just completed our XYZ certification. Now we're talking about the certification without talking about the certification, right? It's not a sales pitch. Susan's going to say, oh my God, George, your certification was awesome. I love that. I learned so much. Now she's talking about certification without talking about certification. And then you're going to help her. And the content is super easy. You don't need Susan to give you a 5-page list of her background and everything. You're going to show up just like this. I don't know what we're talking about. You're going to show up. You know what you're talking about inside of blockchain. And Susan's going to ask you questions that you already know how to answer because you've answered them 1,000 times before. And then that creates amazing content for your channel. But it also helps me learn, oh, George does certification. Oh, Susan loved the certification. Cool. Maybe I should get in on that as well. So we're working with our current customers and then taking them just a level deeper. But people who already love us and are going to say great things about us, because if you just made a video saying, here's my new certification, why you should sign up, nobody's going to watch that video. Nobody's going to go and sign up. Like, that video is dead on arrival. But if you're making it valuable, but you're bringing people in who love you and will talk about certifications, like, you know, in module 4 when you said blank, How do I— Right. So we get the sprinkle. You don't even have to prompt it. You don't have to say certification. It'll just come up in the conversation. And so if you had some who've done hundreds and some that have thousands, you already have a big enough pool to pull from. But you can then use that same strategy for any of your products that you offer, the free downloads that you have, any of the guides, any of the courses. Hey, here's, here's Bill. He just completed my course on Blockchain 101. Bill, welcome aboard, man. Like, oh my God, Blockchain 101, George, it was great. Thank you for making that course. It made it so easy for me. Sure. Here's what I'm trying to do. And then you go and help Bill, and then in the link you can link up your Blockchain 101 course, right? It's the easiest kind of content to make because you don't have to script, you don't have to plan, you don't have to prepare. You just show up. You just have to have your assistant book George and Bill and who— and Susan and whoever to kind of be on your show. Which I saw you have a beautiful system. You have a beautiful, beautiful process set up.

You actually— you know, I've been following you for for many, many years. And I gotta tell you, one of the things that I love most about what you're doing is that in the process of going through this with you, I'm actually learning a lot of what you're doing, which I have to say to anybody that still is not part of this movement, you gotta get on this program. So genuinely, and I can see how these can be a valuable marketing vehicle 'cause you got people like me who are passionate about your work telling everybody in the audience how amazing this is.

You just did it, right? Like at the beginning, there was George, who's part of my Movement Makers program.

And when I grow up, I wanna be like Evan.

But you don't have to do it on IG, you know, definitely you just do inside Zoom, but it becomes YouTube content. And then the best moments from that get clipped for TikTok, for YouTube Shorts, for Reels, for everything else. I would, if your goal is to convert people, I would highly recommend you move more towards long-form content than Shorts. Shorts are great for audience growth, but a lot of the people who watch Shorts don't then go watch long-form content. And they don't go and buy your stuff. Interesting. So if the goal is I want people to buy my stuff, get in my certification, because somebody who's in a short mindset, they're like, they're scrolling. It's got to be something that pops instantly. They're not in the mindset of I'm going to go watch a 45-minute training session. I'm going to go get certified on this. It's just a different psychology. So it's great as filler content. So if you're making one video a week, then to have 6 Shorts, cool, do it. But I'd much rather you go to 3 or 4 or 5 long-form videos and less Shorts because it's going to help you achieve your business objectives a lot more.

And that's very, very valuable because one of the things— the Shorts creeper is brand new to me. So like, for example, when I think about Instagram, I think of Reels. Quite frankly, I don't know anything about Instagram. So there's this thing called Reels, there's this new thing called YouTube Shorts, there's this TikTok— I don't use TikTok, right? So like, I've always been on the YouTube space and I've built towards building my channel, right? And now I'm seeing all these different channels and I'm saying, okay, so I need to go short form. So what you're telling me is that yes, you'll be able, I'll be able to, I guess I would be able to find new subscribers, but those subscribers will not necessarily be the diehard subscribers that go through my long form content.

It's a very low conversion over to your long form content and an even lower conversion onto whatever you're selling. Whatever they're buying.

No, they just want little quick tidbits of content. Quick, quick bite.

So it's good filler content. So what I would start is long-form content. And if you really want to hack it and just make it easy to be everywhere, then you take your long-form content. If you're going to talk to somebody for 45 minutes or however long your show's going to be, you're going to have multiple aha moments and you're going to drop some bombs and some gems in there that maybe you've never shared before, but it'll come out as you're talking to people. It's just going to happen. You take that 45-second clip and I would keep it to 45 seconds or less. 45 seconds or less. You cut it, and this can be someone in your team, but you cut it to be vertical because all the, all the short form. And then you put that to Instagram Reels, YouTube Shorts, TikTok, and Twitter.

Twitter also, because it's under 45 seconds, so I could still use Twitter. I never thought about that.

Twitter is the— 24 seconds is the limit. The other ones you can go longer, but 45 is the limit on Twitter. And for where you are, Twitter is important. Sure. For NFT, for crypto, Twitter is—

Twitter crypto is huge, super important.

And so I would definitely be making Twitter content. Uh, I mean, it's good for everybody when it's easy, because if you're making the same piece of content and you're posting everywhere, go for it. But especially for you, I would prioritize Twitter over Instagram. That's great. It's going to be a lot better because I do have—

I do have a Twitter following and I've been building it throughout the years, and that's great. I didn't even consider it because I don't think of Twitter as a video platform. The fact that's a 45-second video can fit on Twitter. That makes sense. Groovy. That's perfect, Evan. Thank you very much for sharing that with me. I actually have a team right now that is going through all my videos and clipping it into little shorts, little shorts, little shorts. But I've told them to do 60 seconds. Maybe what I should do is start thinking about doing some longer form content and then saying cut out those little clips from the longer form content. Yeah. And do it like that. That longer form content that can also do in an individual session with a student, somebody that's been certified. That's great. Very valuable.

Great, great. That's gold. And also Twitter, again, when you're doing your long-form videos, you're going to have a bunch of one-liners that you say too, that you could pull out as quotes, like text quotes for your Twitter account. And Twitter is very forgiving. You could post 20 times a day on Twitter. It doesn't matter. So I'd be taking clips and the one-liners and posting that to Twitter. But you don't have to think about new stuff. All you have to do is do your long-form content and then the team cuts up all the pieces, takes everything out, and now you're on every single platform just by doing your regular shows. That's fantastic. So certification, students, customers is a series and you can even do them all on one day or, or, you know, an afternoon once a week or whatever. And your assistant just lines them up for you, 45-minute breaks, you know, or half an hour at a time. And you line up 6 students to go back to back and you're doing 3 hours of calls and then you got content for the next couple months. That's awesome. Then whatever your regular training videos are too. Plus, if you're able to talk about anything trending, anything in the news, anything that you have an opinion on, even if you don't have to have like a hard, like you're gonna piss people off intentionally, but in an educational way, just take that vibe that you said, there's so much good that's happening that people don't know about. Run at it. What are those things? And then you start to be the guy who shares it, that brings that which other people don't have access to.

Because I'm on the inside, I deal with a lot of these. Yeah, so that makes sense.

Whatever those things are in your mind, if that could be a weekly show to say, here's what this— here's what's happening here, this company, this new coin, or whatever you're going to talk about, um, be the guy who's spreading those things instead of having to spread the negativity. That's excellent.

Thank you very, very much, Evan. I don't know what your timeline is for these, but, uh, um, It's been flying for me and I'm really, really value— you know, I've got a lot of value. This one final question on these, are these at all recorded by any chance? Is any of this recorded?

This is recorded like Instagram Lives go to become recorded. So here's my process, right? So your Movie Makers, if people bought for a year, they get a chance to do the one-on-one with me, right? So it's a different— like you can even— this wasn't sold, but you could sell it, right? Even as part of your certification, they could buy one-on-one time with George that also becomes a video to go on your YouTube channel. Maybe that's a $1,000+ thing to get the one-on-one time with you and the content. But for me, it's just built in. It's free to do an Instagram Live. This, this will be saved on my Instagram afterwards. So after, when this is done, it'll be there. You can watch it back. You know, team coaching. That's exactly what I was thinking.

I was like, I'm going to take notes from all this, but right now I'm holding my phone in my hand and I didn't even put on my headset.

I'm like, yeah, it's all good. Anyway. And then, and then we take the best ones and we'll convert it to a YouTube video. Excellent. So that's fantastic. Moving from Instagram to YouTube, you just have to— we're on top of each other here. We just gotta rotate it to be side by side. Over— like, that's cool. But I wouldn't even— like, I wouldn't recommend it for you. Just do Zoom and then post a little bit of editing, go right to YouTube, and then cut the clips to be on every platform. YouTube and Twitter should be your top. I mean, Discord if you have your own community. Like, that's where— that's where your people are hanging out. You could post clips Post your 45-second clips. There's a new George section, George's Thoughts. There's a channel in your Discord, George's Thoughts, right? George's— what's a G? George's— George's— what do you eat? George's Snacks? George— I don't know, something with a G.

No, no, I, I have a section where I always say, hi, it's George Lebo with another valuable cryptocurrency clip. And that's a little— that's typically my little cryptocurrency clip. And, uh, and I say, you know, like, I'll tell you something about, like, what's the difference between a coin and a token. I keep it under, under 60 seconds, and that's a cryptocurrency 'Join me later for more cryptocurrency clips.' Something like that. That's what I always say. It's like a little clip, something like that. I would do—

anyway, I would do all of that and just cut out the intro, extro. Oh cool, just right. So don't intro.

Yeah, just why you do it. Don't, don't even— I don't have to say, 'Hi, it's George Lay with another valuable cryptocurrency clip.' Screw that.

Yeah, tell me the tip. Good. Yeah, that's awesome. And, and you don't even need to now record these because you can pull the clips from your videos. Mm-hmm. In this, there's been a bunch of aha moments that my team could pull out and turn those into me sharing. So I don't even know what I said today. I don't know. I said stuff. Cool. Those could all be clipped into different pieces of content that I can put on different channels. If you have your Discord, then again, whatever you're posting to Twitter, the 45-second video that you're posting everywhere, right, also be a daily clip to your Discord that's pulled from the stuff that you've already talked about.

Yeah, and the key thing, like, for example, right now this, this Instagram channel is empty. I don't have anything in there. I think I have one video that I recorded I put in there. And the question is, I have a whole stack of like 60-second or less videos from before, which I believe is under the Reels limit, right?

60 seconds. Yeah.

And the question is, if I have those, um, does the platform— because I haven't even tried this afterwards— if I have it in my phone, I can upload a video into it? I don't have to record something to put into Instagram Live?

Yeah, yeah, you can definitely upload. Groovy, that's awesome. Or give it to you, like, just give access to your team to upload the content and then they can put it up for you. Cool.

And that's the final one. I'm not going to waste your time on that one, but the thing is, like, I'm thinking I have to do everything through this device in my hand, right? Like, not on my computer or anything like that, which would be different. I'm just so used to using a computer. That's it. Okay.

Yeah, every platform is pretty— even YouTube is pretty easy to upload from your phone or from your team's phone. Okay, groovy. Yeah, awesome. All right, thank you.

Let's go, George.

Thanks for the love. Thank you very much, Evan. Looking forward to it.

You did it. Absolutely. Thank you so very much. Okay, thank you.

Have a beautiful one. Thank you.

Jeffrey's in the house. Hey Evan, great to meet you. Really happy to be here. Thanks for the opportunity.

Yeah, cool, man. So, so Jeffrey's a new member of, uh, Movement Makers, and as part of that, we're doing this session together. So you got the Pinned Podcast How can I help you?

I brought along a book. Oh, look at that. I love it. There you go. I got very inspired right at the beginning of COVID last year and read the whole thing. So, um, yeah, thanks for everything you do for so many people.

Cool, man. I love it. So you got the PIN podcast, we got some time together. How can I help? How can I serve? What do you got? Right.

Well, I wanted to explain to you what I'm trying to do, and then I have a few questions and wanted to hear your suggestions. But I think you've heard about what it's all about. So really, the idea is to lend another hand up to all of the people and all of the organizations that are trying to end mental health stigma. And so for myself, I had an experience. I had a lived experience almost 10 years ago. I was, I was an entrepreneur and I have a family of 6. I— all sorts of things were not working out. Some contracts were ending. In any event, at the end of this, I, I had a mental breakdown. And so I was hospitalized for 5 weeks. And, you know, it's a bit ironic to me because if somebody had asked me, or friends who haven't seen me in years had asked me if I was a likely candidate for that, they would have said no way. And even myself, I thought there's no way that could happen to me. And I remember once actually walking along the street with other, other patients of the ward going to another hospital, and, and it's in my hometown, and I've done a lot of volunteer work. So I, I was thinking in my mind, anybody who sees me thinks, oh, Jeff's a nice guy, he must be volunteering again. It's like, no, no, I'm not volunteering, I'm, I'm, I'm a patient and I'm needing some help. So I was thinking hard for years, what can I do? I've come to the conclusion of making this podcast, and, and the whole, the whole thing is to try to reframe the thinking of weakness when people are really getting crushed. And so it's using a weightlifting— if you go and do a bench press, even with the lightest amount, and you don't stop where you normally do, which would be doing the largest, you know, you stop with the last rep and you hand it to someone. You stop when it's on your chest and you can't move. And, and that's the way to prove universally it doesn't matter how strong you are, even the strongest man or woman in the world would be pinned And I think we can all get surprisingly pinned when life throws way too much at you, and then you have to hide in the dark because you're embarrassed that you have a resulting mental health challenge, or if you get sideswiped with, you know, with schizophrenia or bipolarity or other things. Anyway, so that's what I'm trying to create. I'm doing some posts. I want to interview people who have really overcome something and have an important story to tell as a hand-up for others. So that's the background, and it's great to meet you because I'm just starting out, but there's lots of questions I have, and I'm sure you could give me incredible advice. So thank you for the opportunity.

Yeah, I mean, I love it. I love, one, your willingness to share. There's so many people who are too afraid, and if they were in the hospital, they'd be trying to hide and like, oh my gosh, don't— yeah, I'm a volunteer here. You lie instead of showing that, no, I struggle with this too. Especially when we have, you know, some kind of persona or we're kind of known. So, you know, kudos to you for having the courage to do that and now step up and create content so it's beyond just the people in the local community but people, you know, around America and the world who start to see this. Because I think the more people share their story, the more people can connect to it, the less they feel alone, the less they slide down. And at some point, everybody feels pinned by something, whether it leads to a 5-week stint in a mental hospital or not, right? I mean, everybody feels pinned at some point. I think it's badly needed. Absolutely. Yeah, I'm pumped. So what do you got? What are your questions? Let's try to help.

Well, for example, I mean, I've started off with an Instagram page, pinned.podcast. So welcome anybody who'd like to follow that. I've started off with 12 posts, each with a picture and with a story behind it that is always trying to lead to, you know, basically a real observation but a positive uplifting message. So what I wanted to ask you to start is, you know, I haven't created any schedule for that. I'm basically, as I get inspired, I put something on, but I don't know if over the long run it's better to say, have a discipline saying you're going to do one a day or two a day or X a week versus if I'm inspired, I put something on. And if I'm not, there may be a gap for a certain period of time.

Yeah, it's definitely good to have a content schedule. If you wait, there's nothing wrong with being inspired. It's great. Like, yes, you get inspired, create. But if you wait until you're inspired, then you might have— maybe have a rough couple weeks, you know, you're dealing with your kids and whatever else. Like, oh, I haven't posted. This is where a lot of people fall under, right? You know, this— I am going crazy right now on my Discord getting— you got to get in because you're Mover Makers. So I'm building it up. I'm going crazy on it. But this was in my calendar And so I'm breaking from that to come and do this, right? Yesterday was my YouTube day, and so I put it in my calendar and my team is not talking to me and I'm not doing any other projects. I'm just filming videos. If I didn't have that block in my calendar, I wouldn't make the videos because there's always something that has to get done. Now, it's not that I wouldn't make the occasional video when I'm inspired, but you have to put it in your calendar. Those ones you can block, right? So you could block time. Like, you put a— in, in 1 hour, you could probably get a lot of content done if you're just talking about pictures with, with some quotes. And what I would try to do is use— if you feel inspired to make a video and go, great. If, if it's— sometimes I'll get inspiration for ideas and just email myself, and then I'll have a list of things so that when it comes to content day, I'm not, oh, what do I— what am I going to make today? I have a folder that I can go through and then create the content around. And that could be— you can get inspiration from anywhere. Maybe you're walking down the street and you see an act of kindness, or that tree reminds you of when you were depressed and you cried under a tree. There's so many sources of inspiration. But yeah, if you wait, it's just not going to happen. If you didn't have this— this was scheduled by my assistant. It's in your calendar, so we're here. Yeah, for you too. Like, if this wasn't in your calendar, you'd probably be doing something else that is not creating content. So finding, you know, at the beginning, if you're just posting pictures with quotes, those are a lot easier to create than, than video. I would, I would find an hour to two a week, put it in your calendar whenever you feel most inspired usually, and put it in.

And I've been learning lessons through just trial. It's not trial and error, just trial really, because So I was really happy and it kind of made a light bulb go off for me. And I wonder what your comments are, but I thought one of the images I'd love to put on is of somebody ice climbing because that's very tough, very specialized slippery slope. And these are always analogies or metaphors to the slippery slope of when you're in danger because you have a mental health challenge. I found a woman on, Instagram who also— I saw this, she does air— what is it called? Air, um, aerial, kind of aerial gymnastics. And she, she had an incredible quote. She was hanging by like this thread over a forest, maybe 1,000 feet up, but she was admitting that she's terrified of needles. So to get COVID shots, she was terrified of needles. So she was reminding her, her audience, hey, everybody's afraid of something, you're stronger than you think. And I thought, this is incredible, what a, what a great And what a great story for people, because she must be one of the most courageous people in the world. My whole point and my question to you though, Evan, is, you know, so I reached out to her and I explained to her what I'm doing. And I said, I would love to, if you don't mind, share that picture with the quote, and this is what I'm doing. And she said, absolutely fine, just make sure you credit the photographer. Would you encourage movement makers, entrepreneurs, obviously, to seek content at times like this if it fits in and if it makes sense to the person that you may be asking to bring in shared content from others that really make your message stronger?

Yeah, I think so. The collaborations are great, and I would go a step further and invite her to be on your podcast. You know, like, you mean, she— maybe she didn't post her, her story of how she got pinned, you know, or how she may have felt pinned in her life, but she has a story, right? You know, for sure, everybody's got their own story of feeling pinned. And it's a great opening for the podcast because most people, when they're doing interviews— and if you go back and Movement Makers, we had a section of how to be a great interviewer, not just interviewee— and how I love opening up an interview is saying something personal about them. Because most people, when they're doing interviews, they read their bio and it's just super boring. Like, you got to sit through, okay, let me tell you about Jeff. Jeff has a, you know, and you're, it's boring. Jeff has tuned out because he doesn't want to hear his own bio again. And you have the same intro on your podcast as everybody else has. So the best way to introduce them is to say what you like about them, because now you have unique content But it also makes them feel special because it shows that you care and there's a reason why they're here. So this woman probably has tons of accolades and success, and maybe she set some world records or whatever. She's got tons of accolades to her name. But if you said, hey, here is Maria, and why I love Maria is because of this story, and then you share about needles and pine trees and hanging 1,000 feet over and all that stuff. You can totally skip her entire bio and she's gonna feel way better. Like, that might be the best introduction she's ever had on a show because it's from the heart, because it's a genuine— like, you actually love this thing about this person, right? So yeah, I love it. Like, whether it's as simple as just a picture that you love and you're crediting them, great. Um, but I would try to see if you can go a step further and ask them to be on your show. And then lead with that intro. And then, and then at some point you dive into, hey, how have you felt pinned in your life? And again, everybody's got some kind of story to share, right? Fantastic.

I wanted to ask you about the different platforms because my intention is to, to start, uh, the podcast, you know, sooner than later. Uh, again, I'm just, I'm just, I've got a list of people who have started to agree to be interviewed, and, and I know that you've encouraged us to, uh, to, to, to go on to YouTube, for example, and also to post maybe 100 videos, try it out, etc. So, so I just wanted your general comments as somebody who's starting out. Again, my intention was to start with Instagram, uh, to do a podcast, and then I've spoken to a couple of friends who, who are doing podcasts, so getting the technical side. But maybe if— I know, I know you talk about this a lot, but just for somebody at an early stage like me the comments on the use of the different, different media.

Yeah, so tomorrow's session in Movie Maker is going to be great because I think that the topic is how would I get started on YouTube, like if I was starting right now. So it's geared towards getting started. But for podcasts, YouTube for sure. So you're thinking, how do I record video? And the easiest way to do it is actually on an Instagram Live. Like this could be, this could be saved as a video. And might make it to one of my YouTube channels. Then you could rip the audio and turn that into all of the audio platforms for your podcast. And then the third would be Instagram, either the whole thing because you're doing it live and now you have it saved. Right. And also Instagram is the easiest way for you to reach people. So YouTube is the best, but it's going to be a long-term play. It'll take a while to build up momentum and steam and people to get to know you and algorithm pickup and all that. YouTube is, but it's the best long-term play for you to build this brand because what you're talking about, unfortunately in 2 years and 5 years and 7 years is still going to be a problem. We're trying to make our dent in the universe, but unfortunately you talk about mental health, it's still going to be a problem in 2 years, 5 years, 7 years. Of course. So that content you put up on YouTube will still be valuable for people. Right. but it's just a longer-term play. So, um, YouTube, all the audio platforms, and then Instagram would be where I'd post, uh, either the whole thing in Instagram, in IGTV like this, uh, or if you have any kind of editing capabilities, you could, uh, clip some of the moments or even just take some of the high— if you like quotes, take some of the highlight quotes. Like if you have her on your show and you're going to talk for half an hour, an hour, whatever you're going to do, there's going to be 5 to 10 quotes that she says that you really love and resonate, right? So you take, you take those quotes and you turn them into pictures for your account as well. Fantastic. And then Instagram becomes the easy place for you to DM people and reach out to say, hey, I'd love to have you as a guest on my show as well.

Fantastic. Another question is, is, is based on that really, when you're talking about half an hour, an hour, and I'll give you a specific example, but You know, the type of people I, I'm going to be talking to on the podcast. I do have a friend who was a star athlete in university, excellent athlete as when he became a professional successful businessman, father of 3 kids. But several years ago, he took his sales team, leading sales team to Hawaii, took surfing lessons, and ended up breaking his neck himself in an accident and has been a quadriplegic ever since. So he has certainly been massively pinned both physically and mentally. He's gone through a lot of things, but he's somebody who wants to share his story. And none of this is trying to sugarcoat anything, right? And as I've said in my thing too, I have no medical expertise. I'm looking to help people share stories and my own as to try to make sure we all know we're human and that we can seek that hand up when we feel there's nowhere to turn and we've got reasons to not want to feel less than who we are or think we're not as good as others. So my question to you is, I've spoken to him already. I don't know, you know, if this should be a half an hour discussion or an hour discussion, if you target it in advance or you just let it go with a whole bunch of questions. And if it turns out that he's only comfortable or we've talked for half an hour and that's it, you stop there or you edit it. Or should we always target the same amount of time or even extra time if you're going to edit as well?

Yeah, that's a great question. So Already from the vibe that I'm getting from you, I think you'll— what you do is create a safe space for people to actually share their story. And it's, it's not so much about you talking, talking, talking, but you're going to ask questions and then just give them a space. Yes, you'll be a great listener and you'll give them a space to share their story. And you might be the only person who's ever asked them in a way where they can share their story, make them feel comfortable enough to do it, right? So I think that becomes the cornerstone to say, hey, I'm just like you. Maybe not like— obviously you're not a quadriplegic, but I'm like you in that I struggled with this, and here's the purpose. Like, you lead with the mission. And then already just in how you show up and your tone and your care and the thoughtfulness behind your questions and just how you're paying attention when they're talking, because I can only see it as I'm talking, it would not surprise me that you would get information and stories out of them that they've never shared anywhere else. So, uh, you would like to have a lot of time for them to get into it because it's like, oh, okay, Sally, sorry, we gotta go now. I'm somebody like— if they're in the middle of this really emotional story that they've never told anywhere else, um, you want to make sure that there's time for that. So there's no upper limit. I encourage people to go long if you, if you have the time and they have the time. Longer is always better, especially for YouTube. So one of the main reasons why people like Joe Rogan took off is they're like 3-hour podcasts. You know, you're sitting down, you're talking for 3 hours. Now that's a lot of commitment and that's a lot of work, right? So you have to have buffer time on your calendar, and it's also always smart to ask them if they have a hard out. Yeah, right. Do you have to be somewhere? Do you have to go pick up your kids? You have another— because you don't want to be disrespectful of their time, and I know you wouldn't. So it's just asking if they have a hard out. You can say, sometimes conversations go— we can budget an hour, but sometimes they go less, sometimes they go more. Is there a hard out I should be— I should know about? You know, and then going as long as you can. Um, there's always more levels that you can go. And I think you'll know when to end it. There's just a vibe to a conversation where it feels like, okay, that's a great spot to end on. Thank you so much for popping in. Yeah. So I wouldn't fix myself in because you want them to have the permission to share their story, and sometimes it takes a long time to get out.

Yeah, I was going to ask too, because of my life experiences and the reason I'm doing this, and then people I've met along the way, you know, I would like to intersperse this at different times with different stories. So it's a question of how to do that, because the goal of each podcast is to, is to allow somebody to, to come forward and share their story. Again, this isn't sugarcoating anything. A lot of these are very, very difficult stories, but they are ending with hope in some ways. And hopefully we can also lend a hand up to the, the person sharing too, if they are still pinned or need some help. But my question to you, and I'll give you a very quick story, which is an example, but when I was a teenager, I worked a lot with disabled kids because my mom was working at a school for them. And I worked with a girl who had a Blissboard, and I'd worked with several kids who only communicated by pointing at symbols. And this is an example of a short story. So I didn't know her. I would go say hello to her every morning at a camp. She would never respond, and I thought I was bugging her. So after about 3 or 4 days, I asked another counselor, I said, should I leave her alone? I must be bugging her. She's not responding. And they said, you don't know how she communicates. And I felt indignant, you know, because I've worked with a lot of kids with Blissboards, and this isn't my first kid that I've worked with. And I said, of course I do. And they said, no, you don't. They said, look at her eyes. If she looks up, she's saying yes. And if she looks down, she's saying no. And so I didn't know that. So when I went to see her, I started pointing at symbols. She's looking up. I'm offering conversation. She's looking down. I tell her, you must have thought I was pretty stupid because I couldn't communicate with you. And she looks up, right? So we're having this great communication. And she is a perfect example of somebody I've met who is completely pinned. And yet if somebody can't give her a hand up and get into her world, She's got a very challenging life regardless, but the dignity of her human spirit is amazing. So my whole question to you is, you know, when I, when I do a podcast, I've got to figure out over time how I can bring in appropriate stories of others and experiences that are relevant and intersperse them. And maybe it's just part of the conversation, but I guess, and maybe I'll learn that.

Yeah, well, I mean, you will, and you'll find your style as the more you do. You can't have the perfect plan going in, like no matter how much you plan, you know, to be a parent, right? It's always different when it happens. So, right, you're, you're, you're birthing a new child here. So no matter how much you plan and get prepared, you know, it's, it's going to be its own experience, which is fine and beautiful. Um, a couple things come to mind. First is you mentioned at the beginning in the setup, maybe even help the guest become a little more unpinned as well if they have something they're going through. I would default to, to thinking and even making an intention that And by them sharing their story and by them feeling like they're contributing something, that their story might mean something to somebody, that is unpinning themselves, right? Like, they may not need any other follow-up or anything else. Just the fact that they're having this conversation is the process of unpinning. Because I think a lot of the process of unpinning is just feeling like you're not doing this alone. That's right. Like keeping it stuck here and like pressure and all this and like, hey, get it out. You've already unpinned them just by giving them the space. Right. So that's one. Second, for the content, you have two options. It's either if you're going to start talking for a third to a half of the episode, then you could either— you need to position it more as a conversation instead of an interview. Because if people are expecting the interview and then you're interjecting, telling your stories and all that, then it's like, why am I being interviewed? Or so that makes it a little awkward. But if you say it's a conversation with Jeff, then that's a different thing that they're signing up for. Um, option 2 could be you have solo episodes. So you have your interview show and then you have your Jeff show. And the Jeff shows, you're telling, you're telling a story with a message. And that may not be an hour or 3 hours of you sitting in front of a microphone. You know, there could be shorter episodes, right? But the ones that come to mind— and you could even, in thinking about the guests you've had, all the stories that you wanted to share, even take a little quick note. And instead of sharing them live, because your goal is to get more information out of your guest, then it's a solo episode with Jeff talking about the other stories that you want to share. There's no right or wrong. It's really more the vibe you want to create. When you're talking, you're not learning. So is the goal to learn as much from the person you've got while you've got their time, or is the goal to have more of a conversation? It's really more what you're curious about, but setting that up in advance, because again, if you say, hey, I'd love to interview you, and then you're talking for half the time, that could rub some people the wrong way, not knowing they signed up for a conversation. Absolutely.

No, thanks for telling me that, because that would have been unintentional. But I can imagine, yeah, rubbing some people the wrong way, like you said.

And then it's also making it timely, right? Like the story that you tell needs to be relevant to what you guys are talking about. Yeah. You know, so that they're learning in it too. But people, people would sign up for both. You just have to, again, make that intention clear from the beginning.

Right. All right. Yeah. There's, there's other odds and ends that come to mind, but I, I think, I guess I may be out of time, but I, I really appreciate it, Evan. I'm excited. And you know, It is, uh, you know, your book Built to Serve was really resonated with me because this, this is, this is what I, I want to do. I've wanted to do it for a long time, but I, I wrote an article, but I, I figured, um, everybody has a story. Like you say, it just depends on how far you, you've gone, you know. And unfortunately, like, I wrote a little, a little post on my 105-year-old relative who, um, his way to keep going was— yeah, his, his way to keep going was every morning he would walk to the mirror in the old folks home and say Oh good, Alf, you're still here. And he would literally do that. He had a sense of humor. And then he would bet people a dollar that he would celebrate more birthdays than them in the future. And then he would explain to them later if they took the bet that he celebrates his birthday every day because he's not sure how many years he's going to be around. And his every day is an anniversary of his birth. So please pay up now, you know. And so all I'm saying is that, you know, he is a great example that taught everybody around him that even at 105, like, he wasn't— he was a bit pinned by time, but he wasn't pinned in terms of his human spirit. And so, so there's an endless number of people who, who, who can share stories. And because I think there's way too many people who are crushed right now, and having been crushed myself, or pinned is the way I'm trying to describe it, this is just a hand up. That's what it's for.

Especially if you can bring in all those different stories, like, from 105-year-old guy in an old age home, other person who's, uh, you know, afraid of needles but can dangle from, you know, all these meters up in the air, other person's a quadriplegic. Like, the more you can show the different versions of Pinned, the more people will resonate with it and say, oh my gosh, that person— I didn't get it before when you had the quadriplegic on. I didn't get it, didn't fit me because I'm not struggling with that same thing. 'But I am afraid of getting old,' or whatever, right? And so like, the more stories you have on, the more people will find something specific to them that they say, 'Wow, this episode changed my life,' right? Which is the whole point of what you're trying to do, right?

Fantastic. Amazing.

Awesome, Jeff. Well, it's a great start. Great. We'll see you tomorrow.

Thanks very much. Show up on the road. Thanks. All the best. Thank you.

All right, much love, Jeff. Cheers. Take care. Bye. To see me coach another entrepreneur one-on-one, check the video right there next to me. I think you'll love it. Continue to believe, and I'll see you there. How do I build a network across America of not just the survivors but the helpers? Because that leads to so many things for the rest of your life, for the rest of the movement that you're, you're trying to build and create. This is how you give hope, by sharing your story. Because if you're silent, it perpetuates the silence.