How To Turn Your Deepest Pain Into Your Life's Purpose

Greg lost his brother to addiction, and that pain gave him the purpose to start inspiring other people.

Big part of my inspiration for helping others— rewind about 7 years ago in, uh, September, I lost my younger brother sadly, uh, to addiction and mental health. After he passed, I kind of knew that like my purpose was to, to help others, let people know that it's okay not to be okay and that talk about it.

He turns scrap copper from old buildings into incredible pieces of art.

I've I've been in the copper recycling business since, you know, 2010, thereabout. And I've seen all this beautiful copper coming through the scrapyard. I've got no art background. Nothing leads me to being a designer artist. And then fast forward a month or two and like, I was invited to exhibit at a national museum.

But even with all his fast success, he still struggles with the daily doubts of being a creator.

Every day is not a good day. You know, there are struggles all throughout the day and there's doubt. Even today, like, I've got plenty of self-belief, but there are days and moments where it's just like, what are you doing? Yeah, why are you doing this?

Today we sit down to talk about how you can push through those dark moments of self-doubt.

I was convincing myself I could become an artist, and I had to believe that it was possible, and I had to deal with all of my shortfalls from the past and all of my everything, you know, all the baggage. And I had to come face to face with all of it in order to take that next step and really be convinced that it was possible.

I share the exact tools I use, like the believe walk, to keep moving forward when things get hard. I do what I call a believe walk.

I love that.

Wake up, get some water, outside as quickly as possible. Watch this to learn how you can turn your deepest struggles into your greatest superpower.

Welcome to Checkmate with Vintage Metal Designs. I am your host Greg, and I want to thank you for joining us here. My guest today is Evan Carmichael. Evan, welcome to the show.

You drove all the way up here to make this happen. It's great.

Thank you so much for having me here. I'm really excited to, uh, to pick your brain a little bit.

Yeah, cool. I'm excited for what you brought, and maybe we'll bring that in later on on the show.

Definitely should bring it in.

There's a giant sign behind us that says family. I saw this artist who makes— it's metal, and he like wires it and then puts light bulbs in it to like have whatever you want. And like, I need that for the studio. And so now that like lights up, so when we have parties or whatever, you can turn it on and it all lights up.

And so I saw that from downstairs looking in. Yeah, outside here. Yeah, it is awesome.

Yeah, it's cool what you can do with metal. Anyway, you're the expert, you know, so I'm not interrupting your show. Go, whatever, however I can help. I love that you're here, man. This is great.

Evan here started a YouTube channel and has grown it to upwards of almost 5 million subscribers, which I would love for Evan to kind of just take a few minutes here and share with everybody You know, what, what made you want to start this YouTube channel? I know inspiring entrepreneurs and, and people in general is really your, your driving force. So share with me, like, why, how?

Well, I think your purpose comes from your pain. So I think whatever you struggled with the most is what you want to help other people through. And I struggled so much as an entrepreneur to believe in myself and get my business off the ground. Um, and still, like, lack of belief is still my biggest challenge to, like, do the next thing. And when I started in YouTube 2009, uh, well, first I opened my account in 2008 and didn't post a video for 4 months or 6 months or whatever, right? It's like just kind of thinking about it, not doing anything. I think it was from November till April, so whatever that is. And YouTube wasn't a big deal either at the time, like back in 2009. I just like video. I'm a visual guy. Like, if we're doing this interview and it was just over the phone or something, it'd be a lot harder for me to be present. Just audio is the worst for me, but video is the best. And YouTube was the only video place at the time. And I didn't have big ambitions or know some big master plan. I just felt like, hey, maybe if I share The journey and people that I've learned from, what has helped me, maybe other people don't struggle as much. That was it. First year was like 25 subscribers. 5 years in, we had a couple thousand subscribers, you know, there was no 2 or 7 or whatever. It wasn't a lot of like 5 years of making content. And then the next 5 years we got to a couple million subscribers, right? It started being more intentional and believing in myself more and asking for help. And we can dive into that, you know, if you want, but It was really just if 50 people saw my video, I hope that maybe for one person that was a life-changing video. Like, I just made the content that I wish I had when I was starting my business. Simple as that. Like, I'm, I'm an introvert. I'm shy. I don't like— I don't crave like the spotlight.

That makes this all even more interesting. And I found that in one of the videos that I watched last night prepping for this is that you are an introvert. Social media, you talked just now about it taking 5, 6 months to post your first video. I've been in a very similar boat. We just launched our podcast 2 weeks ago.

Let's go.

And the team has been on me for 6 months. And I had this vision last April when I was in Pittsburgh standing atop a 120-foot-tall blast furnace at a scrapyard. Thinking that a podcast up here would be insane. Like, you could have drones flying up, going all around the yard, and then coming right to us, and how we could have 2 or 3 seats up here, and like, at some point in time, this will be a seat that people want—

Yeah, that's crazy. —to be in. Okay, round 2. We'll do round 2. That's exciting. Atop the blast furnace.

So, like, I was— very uncomfortable and scared. Just, you know, do people really want to hear me speak? Do they want me to share with them my journey, what I'm going through? And, you know, connecting and making it as if you're talking to that one person. And like you said, you know, I had 50 subscribers or I got 50 views. If I was able to connect with like that one person and help that one person, inspire them or just help them believe in themselves more at a time when they don't believe in themselves, and they might not have that support or that team or someone, that friend saying, hey, I know you can do this, because everybody needs that at certain times. And it took you 6 months to take that step. Take me through the next 6 months or a couple months. Once you took that step, that leap of faith, and you believed in yourself enough to do it, what kept you going and going, knowing that The quality wasn't great. You know, you're going to stink at what you're doing at first, but you're going to get better every day. You're going to stack a brick, stack a brick.

It took me a long time. So even that first video— so again, I opened my channel, maybe it was even late October, and then April was the first video the next year that we actually released it. And to make that first video, I thought it had to be perfect. And I thought I had to, you know, I had a suit. If you go back to my first video, I'm wearing a suit. I have a red tie, you know, I've got hair. I had my friend who's a videographer, that was his business, come and film me. It took like the whole day. Full setup, lights. Full setup, lights. But like, it's not a long video. It's a, I don't know, 12-minute video. I don't know, you can go back and see. And my time on camera is actually very little, because I was trying to memorize every line, because it had to be perfect. And so, and I am not great at memorizing anything.. And so most of the video is not actually me on camera, it's B-roll and me reading the script afterwards. So my time on camera is only, I don't know, a couple minutes, 4 minutes maybe. It took the whole day to film that, and I was so nervous. And then we posted it. What happened? Nothing happened. Nobody saw it. I was like, I was a brand new account. My mom liked it. I had 3 comments in a year. It was my mom, my sister,. And then some random guy, like, oh my God, I got a comment from some random person. And, uh, that was in a full year of the video being on, on YouTube. Now it's pop— you can go back and there's comments and stuff only because people want to see episode 1. But go to episode 17 or 22, or it still would have zero comments or 100 views or whatever, right? Like nothing. Then there was a gap, I don't know how long. I guess it's all public, so like I've kept all the videos up even though they're embarrassing. You can go back and watch them. How long did it take from episode 1 to episode 2? I don't know. It was a while, because episode 2 was me. Like, OK, my friend Mark is not going to come and film me every time. So I need to figure this out on my own. And so I got a camera and made all the mistakes and filmed with lighting behind me so you can't even see my face and bad audio. And there was a flip camera at the time where it was like this little device that you can stand up., but then I didn't realize it was wobbly. So like, it looks like I'm on a cruise or something, but whatever. I posted it, posted it, just, just get it up there. And I was not very consistent at the beginning either, right? Like, now we haven't missed an upload in over a decade. Like, every single day there's a video going. Um, but at the beginning I wasn't consistent at all. Uh, and it was just a hobby. You know, like, it— nobody made money off of YouTube, wasn't a thing. So it was just, I hope it helps somebody. That's why, like, if 50 people saw it, it's like, oh my God, 50 people, that's pretty cool, right? Like, if you went to speak at an event, the library or something, and there are 50 people there to hear you speak, like, it's a big— that's pretty cool. So that's how I always thought. It's like, wow, people watched it, like, and one person left a comment, that's pretty cool. Uh, but it was— it took me a long time to go. I mean, I had the 350 videos until I wasn't completely embarrassed. I wouldn't watch my stuff back. It was so bad. You wouldn't watch? No, I couldn't. I couldn't. It's like, oh, it's so bad. This is so bad. I couldn't watch it back.

I will watch everything just to kind of pick it apart and see what I'm doing right, what I could improve upon. If we're out in the field and we're just going through at the scrapyard or filming, none of that is pre-rehearsed or anything like that. But when it came to the podcast, I watched it It was like 45 minutes. I watched it last night. I sat at the bar and just started taking notes.

You have a lot more confidence than I did when I got started. Like, I couldn't— the only thing I had going for me was I kept going. Like, I just kept making it. It's like, post, okay, forget about it, next, next, next, next, just keep making more. But I couldn't watch it back. It was too critical. I thought I sucked at everything. Uh, and so my solution wasn't get stronger or have more confidence. My solution was just ignore it. I just kept going. Like, hey, if 50 people watched it let's just keep making more. And so it was 350 videos until I wasn't completely embarrassed— public videos. So, um, yeah, that could have been much faster. You're smarter than me. If I was doing that, I would have gotten way better way faster. Like, 5 years to get the couple thousand subscribers, it would have been way faster than that. But I— introvert and no mentorship and no guidance and no belief and all of that, and So it led to slow momentum. And then it was 700 videos until I finally inspired myself with something where I thought, oh, I'm like, I'm starting to get good.

Was there something that triggered that? Was it a video? Was it a comment? Was it a phone call from someone you had— a stranger?

It was the first time that I was— I felt like I was myself on camera. And what happened was I went to this entrepreneur group. I was running an entrepreneur group. And for whatever reason, I was so upset at everybody that night. It's like they weren't doing the thing that they were supposed to be doing. And I would take it on myself. I was like, why are they not doing it? They could be growing so— and I was so upset and frustrated, mostly with myself, that I couldn't break through to them. And so I came home from the event. It's like 11:00 or midnight or whatever. And I'm so upset, and I thought, I'm just going to make a video. And so I just open up my laptop, I'm sitting on the floor, and I just press record on my laptop. I don't even know what I said. It was like the first time I wasn't going with a script, a script, or like, uh, and again, a script is not a fair way to say it because like, I, I can't— I wasn't using a teleprompter and I sucked at memorizing, but at least would have a rehearsed, like, what am I going to say before I press record, right? Where here, I was like, I'm just upset, and so I'm just going to press record and just say what's on my mind. And it was the most emotional, I guess, I had been up to that point. Not that I'm like, I'm not like a raging lunatic or whatever. Still thoughtful, I guess. But not planned out at all, just record and publish. And I looked at it back, it's like, that's not bad. Like, hey, you know what? I might be starting to get this thing. And that video didn't pop off either. Like, we can go find the video. It's not— doesn't have a million views.

But it was so much more for you than, than views.

Yeah, the first time I thought like, hey, I might be getting this, right? But that was 700 videos into the channel.

So for everybody out there, 700 videos, that's a long time before getting that real feeling of I can do this, or I know I can do this, but I got this. I think I've kind of like figured it out. I'm in a spot where it's A lot of people want to try and get inside my brain in terms of how the design, the artworks, the passion, the drive. And for me, that takes place when I'm in my garage in the laboratory. It's late at night. I'm in design mode. And I'm isolated. I'm alone on that island. And I don't want to really let anybody in, because I don't want to jeopardize that that flow state that I'm in. I started to create some videos. I now have some content that's getting edited, just me in the garage talking about I'm doing this crazy art show in the Hamptons next month, which rewind about a year when I first launched the brand. If I had thought, and I had these thoughts back then, because like you, I've got vision. I can manifest in so much of what's taken place over the last year, which with the launch of Vintage Metal Designs and some of the things that have happened, I could tell you the point in time where they happened here and I shared it with my inner circle and they all thought I was nuts. And then fast forward a month or two and I was invited to exhibit at a national museum. You know, that's something that I started thinking about in December of '24, and by March of '25, we were honing in on a date for me to be exhibited. That's great. So just the discipline and the never giving up, the you got to believe. And so much of what you put out there is just— it's as if you're talking to me and You know, every day is not a good day. You know, there are struggles all throughout the day and there's doubt. And your message is very helpful to me and I'm sure to so many others. And, you know, big part of my inspiration for helping others— rewind about 7 years ago in September, I lost my younger brother, sadly. To addiction and mental health. Fast forward 3 months thereafter, I'm speaking to 153 8th graders, talking to them about addiction and mental health. And, you know, after he passed, I kind of knew that, like, my purpose was to help others, let people know that it's okay not to be okay and that talk about it, put a system in place to help you get through your day, whatever it may be. And I took that tragedy, turned it into, okay, I want to help inspire others. And my passion for copper, I've been in the copper recycling business since 2010, thereabout. And I've seen all this beautiful copper coming through the scrapyard. And never once did I say, oh my gosh, I can make a table out of that. Or I can make a beautiful copper sign that every time you look at it now, you're going to get goosebumps. And it may inspire you to keep going because you're where you are now. I'm interested to find out what's next for you. Where are you taking the Believe Nation?

Yeah, well, thanks for sharing your story. That sends my mind in a million directions too. And sorry about your brother. It's great that you can turn it into something. Again, your purpose comes from your pain, right? True. It's like you struggled with him and what happened. And if you can save even one person's life, it's awesome. And you probably want to go save a lot more people, right? But if your brother had a little more belief or didn't feel as lonely or isolated or had someone to talk to or had your channel to watch or whatever, maybe his life ends up a little different. Right? So it's beautiful. And you can combine it with a passion like copper, or everybody has their own form of art. Then you're making with a purpose, which people connect to. And like, you connect to— people say, how do you keep going and making content? It's been, I don't know how many years, 2009 to now. That's like a lot of years. We've made over 8,000 public videos on the main channel, another couple thousand unlisted and other videos and different channels. Like, how do you make 10,000 videos? About believe and not burn out. It's like, I don't burn out. It's like, it's— this is what I do.

When you're second-guessing— maybe not second-guessing yourself, or just having doubt, or, you know, needing a boost of inner belief, you know, kind of what do you lean on? Is there something that you kind of turn to in that moment where Yeah.

So there's two things that are really helpful for me. The first is part of my morning routine. I do what I call a believe walk. I love that. I wake up and get outside like today. So we've got mastermind happening. One of our members, Markham, he just lost his son to cancer. 41 years old. Sorry to hear that. His son, he's 69. His son is 41, just passed away. This is his first, like, business thing. Since his passing. You're not supposed to lose a kid, you know, before you, kind of thing. And so I invited him, you know, stay at my house, like just whatever. He's been 4th year in the Mastermind, just hang out with us so you're not by yourself in a hotel room, you know, after that. And he's like, I want to join you for the Believe Walk. Like, okay. So we wake up, it was 5:45 this morning, got up, uh, and like wake up, get some water, outside. As quickly as possible, like within 15 minutes we're outside and then go for 15, 20-minute walk. Usually, I mean, this time I spoke to him and we had a chat and all that, but normally I'm listening to something. I have somebody in my ears, some entrepreneur story that inspires me. And then at the end, I always share some kind of message for one, for my team, just recognizing somebody on my team that I'm thinking about. I, like, yesterday I thanked Alex and Justin. Thanks for being the behind the scenes to make all of this stuff work. I mean, not just for today, but for the next 3 days. 8,000 videos? Uh, no, they're not there. They haven't done that. They're not that important for the 8,000 videos, but for the next 3 days, they're really, they're really valuable. Sorry, boys. Giving them a hard time. Uh, but so I, I could try to connect to, like, someone on my team Hey, who's done a good job? And then try to recognize them in front of the whole team. And then try to share a message from my Instagram audience and just post something there. But it's always listen to something, go for a walk, get some fresh air, listen to something that makes me believe in myself more, share a message. And by the time I come home, I'm usually in a much better spot than— I don't get out of bed like, let's go, come on, we're going to change the world today. Like, I wake up and I'm tired and dehydrated and have to go to the bathroom and whatever else. But instead of just going and doom scrolling in half an hour, you know, sitting on the toilet, and like get outside and like get some air, and I come back more ready to go do something. That happens 95% of my days, you know, like there might be some random thing that doesn't happen, but for the most part, like, that's how I start every day, and it makes a massive difference. I think just as a human, getting outside, getting sunlight, no matter— like, I mean, Toronto, Canada, it gets cold in the winter. Silt, get up, get outside, put a snowsuit on, whatever. The Norwegians have an expression, there's no such thing as bad weather, just bad clothing. So gear up, get outside. It makes a huge difference. Being inside all day long is not great. And then whatever helps you believe in yourself more. For me, it's listening to entrepreneur stories. Maybe for you, it's hearing about the latest copper techniques or whatever. But everybody has their own thing that you can engineer into your daily routine instead of having it be a random accident. They like your new podcast here, like, OK, great. Listen to other episodes. And it doesn't have to take— you don't need a 4-hour morning routine. That's a 20-minute thing every day. So that's really helpful. Then if I need it in the middle of a day or something, I have an activity called Big Y, Little Y. And I wrote about it, I think, in one of my books. I don't remember. I think it was Built to Serve. But sometimes the— so the big why is like, why are you doing this? You think about your brother. You think about the mission. You think about all the millions of people that you want to try to inspire and help and the big idea. And you're sitting on top of the blast furnace, you know, like all of the great, fun, world-changing things of what could be, right? That's the big why. And sometimes that's really exciting and really pulls you forward and really makes you want to go do the thing. But there's other days that like the big why is just, it's too big. I can't do that. There's so many other shows out there. There's so many other people who are like way better than me out there. I can't do that. And so the big why is sometimes the best thing ever and sometimes crippling because it's too big. And so the little why then is like, okay, but I can help one person. Like, can you believe that if 100 people saw your video that maybe for one person like that could be valuable? Right? Like, that's a reasonable— you're not— on those lower days, you can't say, "I'm gonna hit a million people this year." Like, I can't do that. But can I help one person? And like, if your video helped change the course of one person's life so that they don't end up in addiction and losing their life, like, that's still pretty awesome. And you can wrap your head around actually believing that when you can't believe you can hit a million people. Right? So on the days when you're feeling like, I need to go play a bigger game, the one person doesn't feel like it's enough, but you have the big why to— at least for me, pulls me forward. And on days when I don't feel good enough or I can't, I can still connect to like, one, one person could need this, and so I'm going to show up for that one person today.

Yeah, for me, it's just— there have been times where the roller coaster has just been like unbearable to, to manage, just with the doubt of, of being an artist, and it just literally takes one person seeing my stuff and saying something positive or a positive comment. You know, I was never on social media before. I didn't know anything about— that's all I knew, how to scroll. Yeah. So once I decided to jump into this, it was like, all right, put on my, my learning cap and start seeing what's working, what's not working. And it's scary for people who are not ready to just throw themselves in front of a camera and say, hey, I'm going to be vulnerable. I'm going to— going back to your 700th video. Yeah. On the floor, where from what I'm hearing was the most authentic video you put out up to that point in time, had such an impact.

Well, and then 701 sucked again.

But that's okay.

Well, that's the point, right? Yeah. Yeah. Well, it was the best I had at the time. If you look back at it now, it's not— I wouldn't call it great, but it's like it was the greatest I done. But then it wasn't that like I just got it from then on, right? 701, 702, they all sucked again. But at least I had a, oh, like there's something in me that might be able to turn this into something. There's hope. There's— yeah, exactly. It's like there's some hope I might be starting to get this. But I don't think I get— I mean, I guess I have a maybe some crazy thing that I just keep going. But, but it could have been way faster. Like, it doesn't have to take 700. I was stupid. Like, it wasn't smart to keep doing that. I was too shy and too introverted and too afraid to ask for help. Like, the big shift happened if you look at my website, it shows like the year-over-year growth. And people like to compare themselves to me. It's like, great, like, you're ahead of me in year 3? I love it. Like, they'll DM me or whatever, like, I'm beating you in year— go, it's great. Like, I think you should use it as— I was not the start a channel and I have a million subscribers tomorrow. It was much like you, everybody watching this should beat me at the beginning. It's awesome. Like, use that as inspiration if it helps you. But in 2014, two things happened. One, I asked for help. Like, you asked for help. You joined Movie Makers and you have, you're in the program. Who'd you ask for help? There was a guy in New York named Steve and A guy messaged me to say, "Hey, I want to do an interview with you." It's like, "Okay, great." So we sat down at a coffee shop to talk, and he said, "Yeah, my agent said that we should do this." Like, "Agent? What do you mean agent?" "Yeah, I have an agent, and like he helps me with my business." Like, "Agent? Like a sports?" Like, I thought, like, I'm a baseball fan. Like, "Like a baseball agent? Like, for a business guy? How does that work?" And so 'Can I meet the agent?' And so I got an intro to him and started work with him. And it was the first time that I had gotten feedback on how to actually get better. But that was already like 5 years in on the journey, right? But I would never have joined Movermakers. I would never have come and drove from New Jersey to be here to— like, I was too scared.

Would you do something like that now?

I hope so. Like, if I was trying to learn something, I hope I would have the strength to like go and do that. Asking for help is still a struggle. I think a lot of people struggle with asking for help.

I typically try and figure it out quickly on my own before going to the phone and going to like my one of four that I'll call depending on what is going on at that time. I've got a couple different really, really good friends that aren't blood, but they are. And depending on what's happening in my world, you know, determine do I need to call my military buddy to get a swift kick in the ass, and do I need tough love? Yeah, you know, is there— so for me, thankfully, I have that support system, but more importantly, I know how to use it now. Yeah, because for the longest of times, it was just complete isolation and just You know, I'm sure I have it.

I definitely don't know how to use it. Like, even today, like, I'll default to learning from famous or successful people, entrepreneurs I look up to and respect, and I learned through osmosis. Uh, that's an easy comfort zone versus like asking somebody for help. I remember I got invited to, um, there's a group that, um, Brendan Burchard— I don't know if you know Brendan— put on, and it's all the people in entrepreneurship thought leadership. You couldn't pay to get in. It was me and Mel Robbins and Ed Mylett and Lewis Howes and Jay Shetty, and it was like 40, 50 people just going off to Brendan's first house and then graduated to other things. And before the first one, Brendan pulled me aside, he's like, hey, make sure you ask for something, because they just default to helping, right? So I could say, oh, I don't even know what I want to ask for. So it's still a struggle of knowing what to ask for. But again, you're already smarter than me at the start, more courageous than me. Again, the only thing I had is I just didn't stop. I just kept going. And eventually, you have to be really bad to not— you have to be— It's like extra bad to not get better after 700 tries of anything, right? So Steve gave me assignments. And he loved the Believe message, but didn't have— he thought I sucked, basically. He's like, hey, you're like the worst of our clients in terms of skill set, but you have the best message. Because he was used to dealing with people who had a good on-camera personality, but weren't saying anything. They had no message. Like, taking people from TV who are used to being on camera, but like, they don't know what they stand for, like, what they want to be known for, or whatever. Where I had that clear, but I, in his view, sucked on camera. Like, okay, well, I've been doing this for 5 years now. I suck, but okay, like, help me, help me get better. And then he gave me, he gave me assignments. He's like, tell me, okay, your first video needs to be, uh, your foundation story. So I would make this 20 to 40 minute foundation story.. And I would do it in the morning and send it to him. He'd give me— I'm sure you only watched like a minute of it or whatever— gave me feedback, do it again. Okay, so I did it at lunch. Great, send it to him, give me feedback, do it again. I'd do it at dinner, and I would do 3 times a day. I'd be making this like 20 to 40 minute video, sending him for feedback. And I did that for, I don't know, a long time. We did like tons of versions of this video, um, and every time I got a little bit better., right? And I ended up becoming the best practice at the agency because I went from being the worst to being like, hey, look what he's doing. Only because I was putting in the reps, right? Because they were struggling to get a video a week out for feedback, and I'm doing 3 a day full on, right? So like, I wasn't smart or talented, I just, I just did the work and I slowly got better, right? It was like a— it's not naturally in me compared to the people who, like, crave the spotlight and love being famous. And the biggest fight that I would have with him is, like, I don't want to be famous. I don't need the spotlight. I do not wake up saying, I want to be on camera today and, like, speak to a million people. You just want to help people. Yeah, but it's like, I don't need to be famous, Steve. It's, like, not about me at all. I don't like it. I do not enjoy it. Like, when I speak on stage, it's really just to then hang out in the hallway for 6 hours helping people afterwards. Like, that's my favorite thing. I speak to then help in the hallway, not to— because I love— I don't like it.

Small price to pay, you know, talk on stage to get those hours with what you really, really want to do is talk to these individuals.

Yeah, correct. And so like Steve finally— and it's probably more me than Steve— but the breakthrough was like, the more people know you, the more they can hear the message. It's just like you need to put yourself out there so that people— it's not about you and, like, what you're doing, but that if they understand you and they know you, then they'll listen to what you're trying to say, which is— that was the whole thing for me. So 2014 was, like, working with— asking for help. I wouldn't have joined Moviemakers. I was just too embarrassed and too shy, and, like, I don't know what to ask, and I didn't join anything. And then I also married my wife, Nina. Who had a huge impact on my business, my life. She's now in the business and runs everything. Like, the Mastermind event would not be happening without Nina. But it was more just having somebody who was supportive and helpful. My previous relationships were very, like, supportive, but like, it's your thing. You go do your thing, right? And with Nina, she wanted to be— it's like a— it's a— it's— it's— my other relations were passive and, uh, helpful. She was like active and helpful. She wanted to be involved in what I was doing.

I've also got an extremely supportive, unbelievable wife. Yeah. Um, successful career. Uh, when I first told her what I was doing She thought I was nuts. I've got no art background. Nothing leads me to being a designer artist. And a couple days in, you know, she ended up making some, like, coasters, an idea that I just had with some copper nuts and bolts. And that was like a couple days after I had this idea. And I'm like, she's stealing my thunder. But at the same time, it was confirmation. In our own little way, it was, all right, I think he's onto something. And then it just kind of snowballed from there. And fast forward about 2 months it took to complete 2 tables. And once I had those 2 tables done and I had them in my dining room and I'm looking at them, I was just like, all right, this is what you saw and this is it. Like, I created one of the— my favorite pieces, uh, 2 months after I had this idea to become an artist. So in that 2 months, I was able to link up with a master carpenter who works out of his garage. He was a police officer at the time doing some really good carpentry work out of his garage. So luckily for me, I was able to put that team together that could create these pieces because I'm not a carpenter by any means. I look at my pieces and I draw out the designs, or I see them in my head, and then I go share them with my carpenter. I'm very visual to where, again, going back to this podcast, I'm now interviewing with a handful of different people wanting to come onto the show, a lot of interior designers, a lot of restaurateurs, and just a lot of visual visionary types of people. So the initial conversations, we connect like that. And once I share my story, the why, the passion, and it's just magical. So being able to connect with more than just that one is really, really what's exciting. At the end of the day, we want to just help that one. But in the grants with I feel like with that approach, we're going to help the masses. Yeah, I mean, big Y, little y, right?

Like, on a lot of days it's like, I want to go help all the artists of the world. And then sometimes that just feels too big. So then it's, I want to help one person. And I love what you're doing. You know, we're here in a dance studio. There's a great quote that the earth without art is just eh, like the E-H, right? It's like there's no art. And a lot of artists struggle with being able to turn their art into something they can do on a regular basis, like full-time. Like Master Carpenter, he's an artist at his carpentry. He's a police officer because he's got to pay the bills and can't figure out how to turn that into a thing. And how much does the world need his gift? Like, I'm sure if he could turn that into his full-time thing, he would probably love to do that. And be happier and spread more joy to the world. But he hasn't figured it out yet. And a lot of artists really struggle with that. This dance studio, the largest salsa studio maybe in North America. But a lot of people who dance, who try to run a salsa business, struggle because they can't— like, they're artists, but they can't turn it into a business. So we've done a lot of work helping artists, like, how do you— A lot of times just even explaining the art. Like, a lot of artists are just— the story is the reason to buy the thing, because most people just look at a table and it's okay, it looks cool, it's a table. But like, what, what went into the table? People are buying not just the look, but they're buying the story because it, it makes them feel a certain way about themselves, right?

And that was one thing I was leaning on heavily, is being able to, you know, document the making of these tables, where I picked up the scrap copper from, what data center it came out of, or what Johnson Johnson facility it was taken down from. Yeah. And creating that emotional attachment to where it is far more than just the table. Yeah.

Like what it means to you. What music were you listening to when you were making—

Oh, I got goosebumps. Stop. So music played such an important role. Two things did, music and a lot of the self-help and the believe stuff. During my 6-month introspective rewiring of my brain when I was convincing myself I could become an artist, and I had to believe that it was possible, and I had to deal with all of my shortfalls from the past and all of my everything. All the baggage. And I had to come face to face with all of it in order to take that next step and really be convinced that it was possible. Because like you said, even today, I've got plenty of self-belief, but there are days and moments where it's just like, what are you doing? Why are you doing this?

A lot of artists struggle with articulating through words. Not that they can't speak, but like, they express through the creation. You pour into the copper and it becomes something else. Or like a dancer pours their creation, its creation, into the dance and coming up with a new move or creating a new song or turning a piece of scrap from a Johnson Johnson building into like a beautiful table. But to explain what it is is really difficult. So they're expressing through the creation as opposed to language. The challenge is if you want to turn it into a commercial enterprise, it's hard to understand what went into the process if you don't tell me. Like, what does it mean to you? What did you go through? And so like the skills that you're developing, whether people want to do a podcast and all that or not, but the ability to tell the story of what it means to you and what went into it, that's why somebody's going to buy it more than just because it looks cool. Because it also— it makes them feel— the goal is to make them feel a way that you feel. That if it's, like, helped you overcome your grief and anger, maybe it can give them a little bit of hope as well. But if I don't know, then I'm not going to feel that way. It also gives me a story to tell other people when it's something Physical like that, right? Like if that table, you know, you were listening to Believe Focus music and it came from the Johnson Johnson factory and like whatever, like you could make up a story, but there is a real story behind. Like, why did you pick that piece of scrap? You could have picked anything. Why that one? What does it mean to you? What were you thinking? What were you feeling? It's hard to think about it because it's just instinct. It's just creative. But then it's more of a, I made this and it's in a— like, you can't help but do it. Like, the copper called to you. Like, you can't stop. It's just in you. But if it's going to be something that is sold to other people, you have to sell the story behind it as well. And a lot of people struggle with being able to articulate it because they express through their artwork. But it's a pretty important thing to do. Like, a lot of times the best, um, it's like best known beats best. There's copper stuff that's selling that's printed in China, cheap, whatever, it's selling huge units just because they have a better story. But like, your story is actually better if people only knew. And then becomes the responsibility to start to tell it, not because you, you're an egomaniac and you need everybody to know you, but because it means something, right?

It makes me feel good sharing it. It's hard. One of the guys I follow on social media, I'd say at least once a week, maybe even twice a week, he's just talking, talking about what it's like to be an artist and the feelings that he's going through when he's doing a piece, good and bad. And the delivery, it's kind of like— having like Morgan Freeman kind of commentate. It's that voice that just— it's soothing. It's something that, again, you're bringing people in. But at the same time, you're the most vulnerable. You're putting yourself in a very vulnerable type of position where it's uncomfortable just putting yourself out there. Again, after— the reps, after putting in the time, it gets a lot and a lot easier. Now I'm at the point where I've done just a little bit. I've got more confidence. Now I'm starting to kind of put a bigger plan in place in terms of the message I want to deliver and the consistency of it. Because once you give it to them, you know, you can't stop. Yeah. You're going to want it. You know, you're doing the walk every single morning, you know, with that piece going out to your team, to your followers. Like, I love it.

It's like just dealing with the rejections as an artist is crushing, or the potential. Like, you spend 9 months working on something, and then somebody says, oh yeah, I don't like how it, you know, how it looks like that, or like, why is it green on top? It's like, I spent— that's a, that's a child. I spent 9 months on this thing, right? It's like, it's hard to, uh, get the take— not take it personally because like you put so much personality into it, hopefully. Like if you're actually an artist, if you're not just like printing something and like, here's some AI image, copy paste, go, made somebody laugh, whatever, haha. But it's like you're actually pouring your love and energy into heart and soul.

I get it. That's why people like—

for me it was videos. Like I'm making videos and people may not like it. Like you make a bad video and the comments People are— luckily, we have a pretty supportive community. But you still have people who will come and be negative on something. And at the beginning, it's brutal. Because you already are— you spent so much time on something, and you're already filled with self-doubt. Like, is it good enough? I don't know. You can always make it better. You're never done with a sign, right? There's always something you can add to it. And then to have somebody expose some of those, like, yeah, this sucks because of blank, it's just—

terrible. Thanks for pointing that out. Yeah, it's the worst.

Um, it's why I always encourage, uh, people— if there's a small creator that you follow and they mean something to you, let them know. I do that all the time. Like, I see the comments on my channel. Big creators sometimes do, sometimes not, whatever. But it's not a— it's not— it doesn't make as big a— it always is special. And somebody says, hey, you changed my life, it's always special. But especially at the beginning, if somebody has no comments— and there's all— we all have these little creators that we follow for all these niche things that we love. Like that artist guy, maybe he's already big and has a big following, but we all subscribe to some channels that have under 1,000 subscribers, and they're maybe consistent, maybe not. But there's like something about them, the vibe, the message you learn. Just like leave a comment and let them know, because that might just keep them going for another 6 months. Like, one comment might keep them going for another 6 months. When I first started, uh, I just started speaking before I did YouTube videos, and I would— you go and speak and it's like amazing, and then nothing. Like, you're waiting another month, the next speaking gig, or whatever, like 6 months, whatever. And so I would take all the comments that people had left me about the speech that I gave and helped them, and even some of the early YouTube comments, and I would put them together before I did my Believe Walk. I had this PowerPoint presentation that I would put together and watch every morning of all the comments that people had left about the good things that I was doing. And I put it to the Michael Bolton "Go the Distance" soundtrack. This is how I would start my day. Listen to Michael Bolton, play my— oh, I'm doing important things. And, OK, let's get to work and go. Because you just wake up. It's another day. You're at your house. It's easy just to fall into— whatever, like, what I'm doing doesn't matter, nobody cares. And so it's hard to reconnect back to the impact that you can have, as well as are already having on some people. Superpower.

Do you have one?

I think the ability to believe in other people. Like, I see you're a police officer, I want to help him build a business. Like, why is he a police officer? You know, like, how is this master carpenter who's awesome at what he does, like, have to do that part-time? And just—

he's fully retired now, and I'm keeping him extremely busy.

So yeah, or maybe I was like, whatever, you know, and maybe he's super happy and like, I can't help him. But it's like, I just— I want to— I want to see people win at the thing that they can gift to the world. And like, most people wake up and drive to a job that they hate. Yep. And that ends up being the path to addiction and suicide and anxiety and depression. At least my belief is a lot of that stems from feeling like you don't matter. I would guess your brother felt like he didn't matter to anybody, like his life didn't matter to anybody else. He's not making an impact anywhere. Nobody cares if he shows up or not. Obviously, without knowing him.. But if you felt like today mattered to somebody, even one person, you're more likely to be happier, be optimistic, keep learning and growing. And like, it's a good kind of addiction to have, to feel like, oh, this, this is meaningful. But most people drive to a job that they don't like and work with people that they don't enjoy and have a boss who's like, they don't they don't like, and they feel like they're not making any kind of progress, and that if they showed up tomorrow, it doesn't really matter that much, and like, WTF am I doing? And then that leads to the path of isolation and loneliness and addiction and all of the problems that I think we have. So having somebody who's like a master carpenter— now, if he loves his job and he's semi-retired and you keep him busy, I'm sure you brought him so much joy And maybe I'm making this story up in my head, like, but this is how I— like, this delusional belief that, like, working with you and now getting to see, like, your excitement— like, you love copper. You have an insanely, like, uh, passionate— yeah, like, nobody should like copper that much. Like, that's crazy. I don't care about copper, but you're like, copper. Like, you see copper, like, oh my God, I love it, right? It's great. Like, I'm never gonna look at copper the same way now again because of you. Like, hey, Greg would say blank. But I'm sure now, like, a lot of times, you know, he's a master carpenter, he's a police officer. I don't think anybody has really seen him as an artist, maybe. I'm sure you've seen him in a different way compared to other people who have seen him. To then take his table or his carpentry skills and match with your, like, copper artistry, I'm sure is, like, exciting for him. And you're breathing new life into what he's creating, right? And maybe I'm making that up.

Maybe that's not even true. We've, you know, his work, his hands have touched almost every one of my pieces. And— but it's made his life better. We've gone to museums, we've gone to art shows.

How cool is that? It's like retired police officers now, like, in museums because of you, right? Like, that's so cool. You made his life So much better. And like, even if you didn't, and that hasn't happened, I barely know you, I don't know him at all, it's what I tell myself. It's like what I believe. And that's all that matters. Yeah, well, maybe. It's all that matters to me, I guess. It's what you tell yourself. Right, it's like, and whether you actually did or not, I believe that it's possible. Like, I think you, the bigger you get and the more success you have, both from your business and the art that you're doing, as well as like the podcast, I just believe that will have a ripple effect of positivity out to everybody in your circle. Agreed. Like, here's a guy who— I don't know how old he is, 65 or 70 or whatever— this might be the best time of his life, right? Maybe right now, few years, maybe. Like, it might be the best moment. If it isn't, like, finally I get to, I get to do the thing that I always wanted to do. That's the artist. Or even like Maybe he never even had a vision for being in the museum in a show. And, like, now this is even bigger than he's ever thought for himself, and now it's happening because you made that happen for him, right? And so, like, the more you lean into that, the more people you're going to help and serve. And, again, it's what I tell myself, and it could be completely wrong, but Sean Stephenson would say, like, never believe a prognosis that doesn't serve you. And so that's a prognosis that serves. And maybe it's true or maybe it's not, but it still is like, it's a worthwhile belief to have. I would love to— I'm walking out of here thinking Greg's going to go like save the world with copper, right? And maybe that's not true, but like, I think it's true. I think it's possible. It's like, that's pretty cool. And it's a better belief to have than Yeah, Greg's an idiot. We're like, how does that serve me, right? I don't think you're an idiot. You better not.

One more thing before we wrap this up. Yeah, when I had first met with the team I ended up hiring to do the marketing, branding, social media, I remember that first meeting like it was yesterday, and the emotions were running out, and I was called an artist for the first time ever at that meeting, which was weird. It was very, very, very strange. But at that meeting, I used the word legacy. And during that 6 months, that 6-month hiatus where I just figured a lot of stuff out in my head, that word kind of just resonated with me. And I got goosebumps now just saying it. And I said to them, I go, this— I want to create something that 5, 6 generations down the line, they're going to know what I did, how I inspired people, and still have this brand growing like some of these other mega brands that keep going and going long after they're gone. So for me, I've got an opportunity here. And nothing's going to stop me. Like, I married my passion with my obsession. And with that combination and the discipline and just the belief, I don't think anything can stop me. You know, what's your legacy going to look like?

I'm a weird one. I don't think about legacy at all. I just had this conversation with Markham yesterday. And so his son passed away, 41, colon cancer. And he was talking about the legacy that his son left because he became an advocate for colon cancer early detection. He walked the New York Marathon a month before he died. Obviously, he didn't win the race, didn't run it. It took him 7 hours something to, like, walk it. But it doesn't matter. Like, it inspired hundreds or thousands of people, right? It's not millions, but like that, he, in a short amount of time, That's his legacy. And Markham, our Mastermind member, is super proud of that and awesome. I don't really think about what people think about me when I'm gone, I guess. I don't know. I guess I could say, well, it lives on with the people that I help, and the content lives forever. It's why I love YouTube versus Instagram or whatever else, because the content lives forever. Your videos from 10 years ago are still getting views now. Um, but it's more of a mental exercise. I just— I see, I see us on parallel paths. Like, right now we're on a parallel path. We're spending this time together. This is our parallel path. And I want to be running parallel paths with people and everybody winning and growing as much as possible. At some point, people might diverge. Like, maybe, maybe we never meet again. And like, this was awesome, and I hope your podcast does I'm cheering for you from the sidelines, but maybe I never see you again. Or maybe like we start a copper business together and go change the world. Look, I don't know. I know, like, who knows? But I love running parallel paths with people. After I'm— I don't even think like after I'm dead, I don't even think that long. What am I doing tomorrow? So I'm not even— I'm not— maybe I'm not great at like future. You asked a question that we didn't really get to, like what's the— like what I have no idea, dude. Like, I'm trying to do the best I can with what I have right now. So I don't think a lot about it, mostly because it doesn't drive me. I don't know what to do with it. Like, where am I in 10 years? I have no idea. Where was I 10 years ago? Like, nowhere close. If you asked me 10 years ago, where are you going to be, I'd miss the mark big time, right? Same thing for you, right? You were just called an artist how long ago?

Uh, 14 months.

So imagine like even a 5-year plan. Could Greg from 5 years ago predict that you'd be here? It's like, not a chance, not a chance, right? But it doesn't mean don't plan. And like, you, you manifested your museum, art gallery, awesome. Let's— it's just, I think, I think we change so much that the plan, the mission doesn't change. I want to help people believe themselves, like, forever. People talk about like work-life balance. What— I don't know even what that means. Is this work? Is this work for me? This is fun. Like, you drove here, you spent a lot more time making this happen than I did. But this is like, this is fun. Mastermind for 3 days is—

I wish I could stay, my kid's graduating from—

No, you're good. But it's like not work. It's like my favorite thing to do. What's— what's— it's just life. What's work life? It's just life for me. Uh, and so maybe I'm just too like present-focused. But I can't even think 5 years out, let alone— hopefully I live a long time. You know, I'm 40—

what year is it? 6? I'll be 46 next month.

Yeah, so I'm 40. I just turned 46. So like, I'm not even done half my life. So I can't even think like— you're maybe just a much bigger thinker. I can't think gener— I have no idea. Generations is crazy to me.

For me, it was like, how can I put out tables and put out art long after I'm gone? You know, so in order to do that, I would have to gather all of the inventory, draw everything out, and, you know, just have it sitting in the warehouse.

Yeah, yeah, it's probably a much smarter approach. Like, I just can't even think beyond next week, let alone after I'm gone. That's, that's to me just— I'm not capable. I don't know the brain cells to be able to think that far. I don't know. Uh, but, but I think it's— I think whatever tools get you to play a bigger game is worth doing. Whatever tools help you believe in yourself more is worth applying. So if you're legacy-driven, it's like, I want to make something so that my great-grandchild, like, knows who I was and gets to see my table and like, ask, who was, who was great-grandpa Greg or whatever, and like, then could watch your videos and see you when you were looking young again, and like, and the stories. I think that's cool. Like, if that motivates you, go. If my great-grandkids are watching this video, like, hey, I'm not thinking about them though, right? That might sound rough for them in 20-whatever year to go, and that's just not how I'm, I'm naturally wired. But whatever tools you use that get you kind of out of just— it's easy to stay comfortable and safe and in routine and in monotony. And like, it's so easy just to stay there. So whatever tools you can leverage— I do my Believe Walk. Other people might think that's stupid and like not helpful. Awesome. Like, if journaling and thinking about legacy is the thing, then do that every day. Because whatever pulls you out of the just daily okayness— we're just stuck in okay. Most of the time. Now, comfort ain't like fear. We're just afraid to do stuff, you know? Like, maybe you're a lot faster than, than me or most people, but most people, it's like you think of an idea and then like, I want to do copper, and then it takes like 6 months before they even do any one little tiny thing. Like, what were you waiting for? It's not— it's like, it's comfort, yes, but it's like fear. Fear of like, what if I suck? What if I get rejected? All of these It's mostly fear-based questions. And so, if like, when you think about a legacy, if that gets you out of the, "Okay, I need to stop being so afraid because otherwise my great-grandkid's never going to see like the table that I make." If that gets you unstuck, awesome. Like, there's all these tools. I think that's why it's great to have different voices because I'm not talking about legacy in my content, but like you can, and people will connect to that and they'll love that. And people look at whoever exists, you know, Tony Robbins or whatever, okay, but they'll learn from you in a way that they can't connect to Tony on things.

My best friend just about a month ago used that word. Legacy. Legacy. Yeah. In his purpose and his business, which as soon as he threw that out to me, I was just like, whoa. Oh, wait up. I'm like, you've never said that word to me before. I'm like, what's going on? I'm like, what do you got cooking? And then he started telling me about this children's book that he was going to launch to complement his business. And I was just smiling. Yeah, yeah.

So, but it's like, how long to get the kids' book out? That's the thing. Like, how long has he been thinking about it before he told you about it? Right. Maybe that's 3 months.

Going back to the speed. Don't waste time.

Yeah, and so, like, okay, now he told you about it. Great, how long is before that kid's book— is it gonna be 5 years? Is it just this idea? 'Cause most people just— Wayne Dyer said, like, don't let the song die within you. People get to the end of their life and they haven't sung their song. It's still inside them, right? How long until that kid's book gets put out? Comes to life. And maybe he makes it and it sucks, you know, and he can't draw and his storytelling is trash. Maybe, or maybe it's awesome. But like, if I'm his friend, I'm like, I'm on him every week, bro. Like, what?

Where's my book?

Where's the book, bro? You said this like 3 months ago.

You haven't done anything on it. And that's exactly how he talks to me.

Are you going to write it? You're going to hire somebody? Like, WTF? I don't want to know you until you start. It's like, because I mean, you have a much better support system. So it's like, I'm sure you have a great support system because you also are that person that for them. Correct. You're not just taking when you need help and a kick in the ass. You're, you're giving it back when they need it too, right? So it's like the speed to— I want your friend to have his kids book up. Like, what's he doing this weekend? What are you doing? You're watching the what game? Like, how about you write the kids book, bro? What do you— who cares about the Patriots right now? I guess you're from New Jersey, so we don't talk about the Patriots. I said the wrong— I said the wrong words. Yeah, like, who cares about the Jets right now?

Right, right.

Write the book, bro. When's it gonna happen? Now, right? And so that's where, like, if it's legacy, if it's Big Y, Little Y, if it's the Believe Walks, like, find the tool that works for you, whatever gets you unstuck. Because we're, we're mostly stuck. Even the most ambitious entrepreneurs, we're mostly all just stuck in molasses. Because it's going to take him a 3-year period to write this book that should have been done, like, in 3 weeks. And he could do it, and he's capable of it, even without being an artist and without being a whatever, right? All the excuses. So he could do it in 3 weeks if he really wanted to.

As soon as I get in my truck, I'll relay that message.

Yeah, bro, let's go. Call him up and tell him. But we need that. Like, you're doing it too. You're stuck on things. I'm stuck on things. We're all stuck on things, even though we're like ambitious and moving. And the outside world will look at you and be like, you did all this in like 14 months? That's crazy. Like, yeah, and like, I'm still barely moving, bro. This is, this is slow.

Awesome. I am so— this was just surreal.

I'm, uh, stop being so slow, Greg. Let's go. Come on, here we go. I want that Blast Furnace podcast.

Yes, that Blast Furnace podcast is coming. Anyway, I thank you, Evan Carmichael, for taking the time out with me this morning. This was unbelievable. Um, thank you all for joining, uh, Checkmate with Vintage Metal Designs. Thank Evan and everybody for tuning in. We'll see you soon.

To turn your YouTube channel into a sales machine, check the video right there next to me. I think you'll love it. Continue to believe, and I'll see you there. You need to hear this coaching session with Drew if you want to turn your YouTube channel into a sales machine. Drew runs Moon Audio and sells incredible stereo gear to serious music lovers all over the world. He already has a 50% return customer rate.