NEVER Too Late or Early: Achieve Your Dreams at Any Age

Starting. All right, everybody, welcome to another Hangout Blab. I'm with my good friend and special guest Stephen Kelly, and we're talking today about how it's never too early or too late to follow your passion. I started today a little bit under the weather, but I'm feeling— just knowing that this is starting, I got my energy back and super excited to be here. Stephen, welcome aboard again. Are you in London?

Yeah, I'm in London, but I just come back from Paris, and then I'm coming over to America next week, actually. So we'll be around a lot. And Evan, on behalf of everybody out there, all the audience, we feel for you because you are a beacon of light. And when you've got a bit of sickness, we feel very privileged. Everybody out there, that Evan's canceled everything in his calendar. He's probably canceled advice calls to Hillary and Donald and all these sort of things going on. And he's here with us. Today. Forget all the other stuff. Thanks, appreciate it.

It's here and then to the doctor's office, but they can't miss this. This is the most important part. Um, Stephen, super important topic. Lots of people feeling like I'm too, I'm too old to get this, you know, I'm past my prime, I can't start a business, or I'm too young, nobody's taking me seriously, you know, I need to wait till I'm X years old. There's a ton of questions that already come in, but Before we dive to those, what do you have high-level advice, thoughts, wisdom? You made that announcement with Invictus as well. Love to kind of get some initial thoughts before we dive in.

Yeah, I kind of think the real question is when's the right time? And we all know the right time is now. So how do you kind of engineer whether you're paying a mortgage, whether you've got kids, whether you're starting off or whether you're at retirement age, how do you engineer it to to play to your strengths. So we all know about following your passion. There's the right time is now. If you want to do it, you want to be your own boss, there's no better time. So, so it's kind of mobilizing your focus to make it a reality, and that's the most important thing. The Invictus Games is massive. So one of the things we're doing through the Sage Foundation, and it kind of plays to this theme, is, uh, obviously a lot of military people have great skills— teamwork, discipline, trust, all the things in terms of management skills, and they can be incredible entrepreneurs. So we're helping them with a whole program about when they leave the military to come into civilian life to have the right skills to be successful as entrepreneurs. And I think it's just incredible, and it's a privilege for us to support people who have been here. Entrepreneurs are heroes, but people who give and prepare to give their lives for their country are a special type of hero, and we feel very humbled and privileged to be able to help them transition into civilian life and be a huge success as entrepreneurs.

I love it. So these people who already know that they want to start a business and then you help giving them training, support, motivation.

Yeah, well, actually, I used one of the guys. He's the captain of the USA team and he got his leg blown off, I think, in 2004 in Baghdad. Captain Will Reynolds. So he's an amputee. But what an incredible guy. He's probably lived 3 lives. And he's younger than 40. He's left the services, he's done an MBA, he started a new career in business, he's had 4 kids, and he's running in the Invictus Games. So it just shows you, I think kind of all of us, particularly probably the olderpreneurs, worry about could we fail? Oh my God, fear of rejection. Have I got this in me? Have I got the energy? But when you see these poster children like Will Reynolds, you think, wow, these guys are inspirational. You know, they've overcome adversity and they've reinvented themselves. They've gone on a massive career change going from the military, losing a leg, and then coming in to be an entrepreneur and a leader. And I just think it's inspirational.

I love it. Well, as I say, we've got tons of questions, so let's dive in and hopefully give some value to everybody watching. First up is Alfonso. I have doubt. I'm starting my company, but I'm 18. I think that people won't take me seriously. How can I get over this?

Hey, Alfonso, you got to believe. It's behind Evan. Honestly, you believe. There's a few things. One, social media. You can be whoever you want to be in terms of social media. You can build a presence, you can build a brand, you can build awesome products. I think in the world of social media, the digital economy, you know, great products win markets. So if you've got a product idea, then, you know, there's nothing stopping you. If it's a services business and it's even a face-to-face business, then I think people are going to buy your enthusiasm. People are going to buy your commitment and energy. I know a couple of guys who are young and they've gone in, they're sub-21 and they've started a services business. And they actually said, well, you know, if you believe what I say and I can do a good job for you, I think I can learn really quickly. I've got a great work ethic. I've got a great attitude. Why don't you take me on for 2 weeks just on expenses and pay me nothing? And then the end of the 2 weeks, we'll prove ourselves. And they've done similar sort of thing with their people. So it's almost like try before you buy. So if you've got any anxieties about being 16 years old, I'd number one, put them away. And number two is just build up your confidence and conviction. Because there's a lot of people who are 16 years old now who are kind of changing the world. And just a couple of examples, I think there was a Forbes article about someone, Maya Penn, who's done loads of stuff. She's given 3 TED Talks, started a load of stuff around a clothing company, an environmental activist. And wow, at the age of what, 16? It's just incredible. You just couldn't have imagined that. So, you know, hat tip to Maya. On this as well, Evan, I'll ping you a few do things on Twitter afterwards around links and stuff. So your, your, your audience and the guys out there can have a look at some of these inspirational people who we can all learn a lot from in terms of absolutely no fear. And I don't think age is a barrier, but age is something you should kind of think. You've got tremendous energy, tremendous passion, you've got a big idea, uh, people will back you if you back yourself. Cool.

Yeah, any links that we talk about, we'll add in the description for the YouTube video when we publish it up. Uh, I mean, I can relate. When I was 19, I had my first software company, and I was selling to guys 3 times my age who had PhDs, and I didn't have a single background, you know, in science. I'm selling to scientists, and it took me a while to get over it. And I would try to do everything by email. I thought, oh, if I talk on the phone, they'll know I'm too young, and and, you know, they won't take me seriously. It wasn't until I realized that these guys actually need me, like I can provide value to them, and at the end of the day, that's all they care about. All they care about is, can you help me with the problem that I'm facing right now? And once I understood that, then it gave me a lot more confidence in being able to talk to people. Even, even later, as I started working with brands, one of the first companies I worked with was Microsoft. I was 20-something and I thought, wow, why would Microsoft want to work with me? They're Microsoft, they know everything, and I'm just some young punk kid. And then I started talking and realized, oh yeah, no, no, these guys, these guys need my help. I can help them, right? So just having confidence in your abilities, knowing that all they really, really deep down care about is that you can provide value to them and help them. And once you understand that, at least for me, that the age fear kind of went away.

Yeah. And with that, Evan, you know and I know whatever age you are, you could, any really smart kids could go into a business and improve it. And you know, when you run a business for any period of time, you just either become complacent or you just do the same things you do every day. And I think this complacency stifles innovation. So people accept the status quo. And I just think new pairs of eyes with tremendous enthusiasm and no kind of just anxiety about changing stuff can make a massive difference. So, you know, back yourself, believe in yourself. And like you, Evan Carmichael, when I was 16, I was selling ice creams on the beachfront. And I'll tell you what, it paid for my college education. I couldn't believe how much margin there was in ice cream. We used to sell these equivalent to Canadian It was probably at the time, this is a long time ago, it's about a dollar. And I used to buy this stuff in the ice cream and the cone. The actual unit price of these ice creams was probably about 2 cents. I just couldn't believe the profit margin in ice creams. Obviously, there was a, you know, if you didn't hit it right, it's a really hot day, there's a lot of wastage. So it makes you think about your margins and be candid with you guys. When it was kind of a rainy day, it was a bad day, no one came to the little booth on the seafront. But what I had to do was get out the booth and go and sell my wares and sell the ice creams to whoever was around. And you find out as well, you know, stuff happens in your head to say, you know, people aren't going to buy this, they don't want to talk to me, they're busy with their families. But when you go up to people and just have a conversation, it's just amazing how people are welcoming and people want to buy stuff. Especially from young people. People back young people. People want young people to be successful. If you believe in yourself, that is contagious. That belief and conviction spreads like a beautiful infection of love.

I love it. I want to see a video of young Stephen Kelly out hustling ice cream on the beach.

That's good, man. I used to have shorts, Evan. I had terrible legs. I had terrible spots. That's a whole— I'm going off piece here, but you couldn't do that anyway. But they felt sorry for me. Whatever it takes, they felt sorry for me. And I wasn't good at hustling, but boy, oh boy. And you know what it's like, Evan? The first one you sell, the second one gets easier. The third one gets easier. The fourth family you go up to is easier. Everyone you do with all these things, just take the first step, believe in yourself, back yourself, have no fear. And then you just stop listening to those crazy voices in your head that tell you you can't because you can.

I love it. Well, you already have almost 500 high fives from the audience on that, so it's good. Okay, next. Franklin, uh, I'm on my way finishing to set up a food business with a twist. The concept is created originally by me. The problem is I need to make myself believe more. So kind of related question there, that it will work no matter what, and I seek for more entrepreneurial guides. Um, So I don't know exactly what the food is, but food, food business with a twist. And he doesn't believe in the concept no matter what. What kind of advice would you give Franklin on that?

Well, Franklin, I guess you've got to believe in the idea. And if you believe in the product in the food business, I think then you've got to find, you know, how do you go about the distribution channel? But I do believe in food. There's so much kind of change in food with organic, with vegan. With all the different diets that people are adopting around the world around healthy lifestyle. It's a golden time to be innovative in the food business. There's such an opportunity out there. And again, you know, I think we as a company have a policy of buying from small and medium businesses and we buy from startups. So loads of people would say, you know, I couldn't go and call on a big company, but we send the guys down here to get lunches just from the market stores downstairs. And so you kind of, you've got to again stop all those voices in your head saying you can't be successful. The key thing is you have to believe in the idea. And again, you know, pretty crazy example, an 11-year-old, Mikaela Ulmer, was literally bitten by bees when she was, I think, 4. And her story is, you know, very personal. That gave her the idea of actually through a whole series of events of creating a product called Round Lemonade. And she eventually sold that on a multi-million pound deal to, multi-million dollar deal to Whole Foods. So, and it just came through a number of elements that are totally unconnected, but it gave her a really great idea that she really believed in. And then she did a multi-million deal as a result of that. And obviously, you know, the rest is history. Cool.

I think too, and, uh, to expand on that, I'd love to see you test it, you know, test it on a small scale, see what's working. If you get some early wins, like Stephen said, you sell your first one, it's easy to believe in the second one and the third one, the fourth one. And even going back to Stephen's story of just selling ice cream on the beach, like, that's starting up small, right? You go and you buy a little bit of ice cream and you go sell it and you reinvest it to buy more ice cream and go sell it. And I think too many times people make it's such a big idea that they can't take the first step without a ton of money or without a ton of, you know, roadblocks in front of them. And so your food concept with a twist, I'd be looking at how can I just start making some sales of this? How can I start getting some momentum of this? And as soon as you start seeing people eating it and tasting it and liking it and spreading the word, then it's much easier to keep going and get some momentum and continue to believe in yourself. So Just have the big dream, but start small.

Yeah. And the other thing, Evan, you know, today, how many pop-up stores are there for food? They're everywhere. You know, you don't have to buy real estate. You can do things exactly as you say, start small, kind of mentally treat everything you're doing very carefully around your money because it's very scarce. So almost run it on fumes. But then think, how do I get market tested? How do I find out? What audience is like, what is the consumer that's going to be really interested in my big idea. And if you go on a movie night or something and set up a pop-up store outside of the movie theater, that's a great way to go. And then you'll find out, you know, does your product appeal to the older generation, to the healthy generation? You know, should you set up outside a gym and all? So there's loads of things you can do, but I'd say constantly innovate. To Evan's point, change and course correct according to what works and double down on what works. And once you've got your idea kind of fully worked out, then think, how do you scale it up? Awesome.

Next, Chantal. I want to be my own company of organic products for the body, but I have no finances now or guidance as to how I start. Who do I seek advice from? I am 28 years old. Uh, so starting a company of organic products, doesn't have finances, needs wisdom, guidance, 28 years old, Chantal.

So I think, um, this is an interesting one because this is, you know, you could argue a pretty crowded market. So I think you need a differentiator. What is it you've got around organic products, whether it's skincare or whatever, which is very different? And I think to Evan's point, you've got to really believe in your product. You've got to love your idea. You've got to love your product. Because that's the first essence you got to have. You got to then think secondly, how do I differentiate myself? Because there's a— candidly, it's probably a sea of mediocre products out there, but it's a noisy market. So what do you do differently? And then all the other things Evan's talked about in terms of kind of market test it, market test it with your friends, market test it with other people, find the market. And then again, once you've done that, then you can scale up, set up a website, whatever. In terms of the distribution mechanism. If you want to use great products like SagePay on your website, you can do all that sort of stuff as well. Now, what I would argue is, um, when you sell but no money, don't underestimate it, because if you've got good products with all these things— golden rule of business is never let expenses get ahead of revenues. So go and do a bit of test driving with stuff. Even your friends, if it's a great product, they'll pay $5 for it. And with these sort of products, typically the manufacturing costs, it should be like 80-90% gross margin business. So if you got the sort of pricing right, you could do test drive and you could get enough money to go to the next stage. And you kind of want to break it down and skinny it down in these little increments where you don't scale up or do stupid stuff, but you just do baby steps on a big idea that you go to a market. But it is a crowded market and I think Evan's got a lot of experience in this space. So what are your thoughts, Evan?

To me, the lack of financing is similar to somebody saying they're too old or they're too young. It's just another limiting belief. It's another excuse. It's, it's like, oh, I don't come from the right family, or I didn't get the right education, or, you know, in my country you can't do this. And it's never about the resources as an entrepreneur. It's about your resourcefulness. And if you go back and you look at any of the guys who have started the companies that you look up to in the cosmetics business, look at the founder. You know, they started in their kitchen mixing ingredients, putting things in jars and selling them. Like, you may not look at, you know, The Body Shop now and say, you know, "Oh, I need to get that kind of distribution and that's not possible. I need to raise millions of dollars to do it." But The Body Shop was started because Anita Roddick, Her husband left her to go ride a horse from Argentina to New York City. That was his dream. And so it took him a year and a half to do that. And so she needed to make money to support herself while her husband went on this huge trip. And so she just started selling stuff that she made in jars. And that's the start, right? So it's, it's never about how much money you have. Get started now with what you have and start selling to your friends. And, and to Stephen's point, find something that's different because there are a ton of products out there. But it's— don't, don't hold on to the excuse that I don't have the money to do this, because it's always about how resourceful you are. And the most successful entrepreneurs likely started with less than what you already have right now. You already have all the resources that you need to be successful.

Evan Carmichael, I think it's a key, key aspect of the greater the innovation and the more creative you get, the less money you have because you have to. And actually, even now, Sage is a big company, but I say to people every day, treat the company's money as if it's your own. Think like a startup. What would you do? What would you stop? What will you double down on? How do we make a difference to customers? And I think the greatest entrepreneurs I've met, whether it's the Bransons, all these guys, they just started with nothing. He's a guy who started with a loan from his aunt. You know, a couple of hundred bucks and that was it. And then built a multi-million empire. Now I do think it's a good kind of culture and philosophy to run your business kind of lean and mean even when you scale up. But starting, you've got to pick something's big idea, pursue your passions, get a product out even if you kind of mix it in your kitchens, get a fan base, and then think about, you know, the other innovations, what other mixes. Never think that you're locked into a kind of cul-de-sac where you have to do the same all the time. Early stage of business, you've got to be innovating all the time. You might even change the product every day based on feedback from your customers. And I think the other thing that's really important there is what it does is be open in your mind to where it takes you, because you'll never know where you end up as a business. And every business that starts with an idea the end product that they build is very often different from where they started. So be very open to that feedback. And again, through social media, wow, what a great way to get social antennae on what your customers love about your product and what you need to change.

Yeah, I mean, to that point, you look at a company like Wrigley's that's made its fortune in gum. They started off selling baking soda and gum was just a bonus that for every, you know, 5 packs of baking soda, you get a free pack of gum. And the gum just took off, so he started selling the gum. Uh, you look at BMW and their logo, that circle is, uh, is propellers because they started off making airplanes, and then they got out of the airplane business and went into cars. And so it's, it's super common to, to switch. Um, so yeah, great example. Um, next, Rise Online. You can always expect a different question from Rise Online. Do you believe that people's lifespans, youth, and well-being can be extended making it even less relevant what age you are when you start as a late bloomer.

So yeah, I do.

Expanding life, lifespans, youth and well-being.

Yeah, I think so. Evan, someone asked me the other day, you know, when are you going to retire, Stephen? And I said, I've set my retirement date. It's the day I die. Yeah, I love it. When you are so passionate about your business and you love what you're doing, Well, I think you've got a much better karma. You can give much more to your family, your personal life, your friends. You know, no one wants to kind of go home and be bent out of shape. People want to be positive energy. All the entrepreneurs I know, you know, they've got huge energy, huge passion. They really believe they're following their dreams. And it does, it does become contagious. It rubs off. And I have got no statistics to say you're going to live till you're 150 and you're going to have perfect health. But what I would say is, you know, you just got a much greater calm and you're probably having more fun in your life. If you're your own boss, you know, you're really accountable for everything good about what you created. And that's a very special and unique feeling. And I think I do think it rubs off incredibly positively where it also, you know, probably means that your work and your life and your friends there's a greater blur in there, much more integrated, they're much more holistic, they're much more part of what your personality is.

I love it. In the, in the pre-chat, we're talking about two entrepreneurs, Ray Kroc and Colonel Sanders. And Ray Kroc built McDonald's and he was in his 50s and he already had diabetes and arthritis and lost most of his gallbladder. And, and he was convinced that the best years were still ahead of him. You know, when he's in his 50s and have all these issues, And Colonel Sanders started KFC, uh, and he started franchising when he was in his 60s. And from '65 to '75, he opened up 600 stores. See, like, 65 years old, people thinking about retirement, and here's Colonel Sanders saying, no, I still got a lot of work to do, I'm going to open up 600 stores. And he kept working until the day he died too, 90 years old, building up KFC. And these, these are two guys who are in the restaurant business, which is, you know, the highest failure rate of any industry is the restaurant business. And they say, I don't care, I'm going to do it. And so, you know, when you're at an age when most people think they're going to quit, that's just, that's just starting time for a lot of people. And I love that mentality. I think when you love what you do, then it's easy to want to keep going because it, it fuels you, gets you excited.

Yeah. And Evan Carmichael, interesting. I am from a family of small business people. So my dad had a tea and coffee, early version of Starbucks, and he did importing coffee and all that sort of stuff. And then he got sick, actually, and we had to sell the business. He was probably 60 when he did that, and he got better, and then he went to work for someone. But I remember coming home when I was a kid and he said, I just hate having to take orders, and I can see so many things wrong with the business. And we could do it so much differently and better. And yeah, he did that for 3 years. He got frustrated to say, I want to be my own boss again. I want to get back and go and do it all over again. And that's a guy in his 60s. And I think age is just— Evan's a young guy, I'm an old guy, but I feel like a 19-year-old kid in my head. And when you talk to whoever you talk to, you talk to your grandma, You ask them honestly, how do they feel in their head? They feel like they were 25 all over again. And I think a lot of people are seeing this now is you've got huge energy with the embracement of kind of the digital social media as well. Age has very little impact on your capability, your enthusiasm, your energy, and the experience you have is incredible. So some of the statistics over in the UK from older people. So over 50s are actually creating businesses. There's more than 50% more businesses created by over 50s than there were in 2008, 7 years ago. The other thing that's really interesting, they apply their experience, but their hiring is 7 times greater of employees than it is for any other business in the UK, the average. So what it means is more older people are starting their businesses, They're being more successful. The data is they're 20, um, 29% more profitable. Um, and also they're employing more people that creates prosperity for, you know, rural communities, urban communities right across the UK. And this, the data is the same in the US. And I think also Evan, I, I think people kind of get sick of corporate life and when you're in your 50s, you've probably got, you know, reasonable financial security, and, and you've got an idea. And that's the time to say, now's the right time. I'll go and do what I've always dreamt of doing for the last 30 years, and I will go and follow my dreams. Great time to do it.

Yeah, it's great to see because, you know, I see a lot of people go into the corporate path, and then the longer they stay there, the harder it is to get off. You know, the more they rely on that stability, and they've built their family up, and so there's even more pressure to deliver results. And they say, well, if I was 20 and I didn't have a spouse and didn't have kids, it'd be way easier to do it. But it's great to see that people are now actually taking the opportunity to jump off and start their own business. I think, I think surrounding yourself with young energy helps too. You think I'm a young guy, but I'm the oldest guy in my company. In both my companies, everybody's younger than me. So, you know, they keep me vibrant and give me new ideas and energy. As well. So I think that can help too. If you're, you know, if your peer group isn't giving you the energy that you need, then change your peer group to get that vibe.

Hey, a couple of— I'll tell you a couple of the stories. I've just done a call with someone. She's a Baroness. She's a very important person. She's awesome. She's inspirational. A lady called Martha Lane Fox. And Martha Lane Fox got hired by this company and she started the first sort of online retailer in the UK called Lastminute.com. And it was her and Brent Hoberman. But the guy who was the founder there, amazing story, I don't know, 3 or 4 of them. And he interviewed her. She's 22 years old. And he went upstairs to the other guys and he said, look, this person is so good, so good that I'll be prepared to work for nothing and give her my salary. Yeah. And she was a rock star. She's inspirational. One of the most amazing female entrepreneurs. And she's doing loads of stuff around encouraging females to come into tech and young people. But the kind of moral of the story there is if I was in my 50s and 60s and starting a business, I'd probably go and get some apprentices, some really great guys who challenge the status quo. And we're seeing just loads of stuff in terms of all the ideas that say people like Martha, she's just joined the Twitter board. So she's so engaged and so engaging. But these guys just bring great ideas to your idea and they can create a flywheel of momentum. So I think it's a good time. The other thing actually, Evan Carmichael, really smart. Someone told me this and I passed it on to a couple of guys who are in their 40s and they said, you know, their classic story and I've sort of seen the question coming. I've got a mortgage, I've got financial dependency, I've got my kids. And I just can't afford to take the risk. That's wrong. So there's a couple of ways you can think about how do I do a soft landing to an exit and start your business as an entrepreneur. One, do a bit of moonlighting. So you do your full-time job, you've got your evenings, weekends free, start your business. Secondly, if you've got a great relationship with your boss, say, how about a sabbatical? How about, you know, the reality, if you're great that company will beg you to come back, whether it's a year, 2 years, 3 years. So you've got total security because you know you've got a job. So you can go out and you can fail fast, try a couple of things, and have like a 2-year sabbatical where you go and live your dreams for that 2 years. If it takes off, never go back. So there's some smart ways you can think about how do I actually use my existing company to give me a bit of time, space or a bit of moonlighting. And ironically, a guy called Marc Benioff, who started Salesforce.com, amazing entrepreneur, amazing leader, built a great company, did exactly that from a company called Oracle. And Larry Ellison, the chief executive of Oracle, actually gave him space and some time off to start Salesforce back in, what was it, 2000? And now it's, I think, about a $7 billion company with a market value of probably 10 times that. So there's loads of ways, whether you're in the, you know, in the 50s, where if you think you've got financial security problems, there's got to be a way around it where you can follow your dreams, be an entrepreneur, and also maybe sometimes get your company to give you a bit of a buffer to actually start your dreams off. I love it.

That's the resourcefulness right there.

I love it.

Cool. Okay, next. I come up with new ideas daily, but how to have clarity for which ones will be the most fruitful. I'm surprised to see a few ideas being implemented by other companies. I don't understand why I'm not able to make my decision quickly enough to make my product. So tons of new ideas, inability to act on it. What do you think?

God, you know, it's so annoying, Evan. You must have done it. I've done it. Where you're sitting down, you're thinking, wouldn't it be cool to do? Especially in social media, you've seen so much disintermediation and whether it's what LinkedIn are doing around recruiting or whatever, we've all sat there and we've had an idea and we've failed to implement it. And then all of a sudden you see this kind of guerrilla coming in the marketplace with your idea. How annoying is that? I would say it's all about you just got to do it. You've got to believe in yourself. And then what you want to do if you have an idea, Test drive it, you know, test drive it in conversations with your friends, your family. If it's got legs, either if it's a product, build it. If it's a service, enable it and get out there. But test drive it. If you have a lot of ideas, just refine which ones are really going to make a move on the marketplace. Because I think you've got to ask yourself sensible questions around you know, what's the market need, what's the customer gonna want. Always put yourself in the shoes of the customer. And some of the really innovative ideas may be too early for the marketplace. So it's kind of, I think that's changing though with the digital economy. Normally now, products that have got first mover advantage can really scale up. And you've seen, you know, what is it, people like Facebook, people like all these companies have come from nowhere. They weren't even invented 20 years ago. But they had an idea how they could change the world. If you've got an idea like that, I think you can scale up and go huge within, effectively within months, but certainly years. But start small, think big, always start small, test drive it, course correct it, road test as much as you can your ideas. If 20% of your ideas are going to be global products, you got a winner. But even if 5% are, you've got to find out what the 5% are. You've got to kill the, the 95% really quickly. And the only way you find that out is put yourself in the shoes of the customer, ultimately, uh, through market testing.

I mean, it ties in well to our topic last month where we talked a lot about the idea being not enough. Lots of people have the idea, you got to go and execute. And I think what holds a lot of people back is they don't necessarily see the whole plan. You have this big idea, but you don't know how to go out and start executing because you don't know what the first right thing to do is. You don't do anything. And it's understanding there is no first right step. It's just starting. Like, start, you make mistakes, keep going, keep going, keep going. And hopefully seeing that big company make tons of money off your idea is motivation for you to say, this is not going to happen to me again. You know, the next idea I get, I'm going to just go out and start doing it and get some feedback and start building momentum for it. Because I don't want to get, you know, scooped up like I did last time. Uh, that was painful for me in my first company. Uh, I missed the opportunity, I didn't see it, and my biggest competitor got out, got bought out for $40 million, uh, and we were second. And I ended up being acquired for a good amount but not $40 million. Uh, and so, you know, seeing the difference, um, helped me in my future deals just when I get an idea, I just do it. I don't have like bucket lists that I wish in 5 years I could do this. As soon as I start saying I wish I could do something, it just starts happening. I start finding a way to take action and make it happen. And so hopefully the next time you get an idea, don't worry about making the perfect right step. Just get going and start on it.

Hey, one of the companies I ran actually, which is an early-stage company, and we still got this, I won't badmouth that, is they still talk about this thing we call JDI, just do it. Just do it. Just if it's a good idea, just do it. So we used to have meetings, so JDI, boom, just do it.

I like it. JDI with velocity.

I love it. It's about the time. You're so right. You're on the money. You're totally on the money, Evan. You just got to do it because, and you got to have no fear of failure because it might be your 7th idea that's the winner. You just got to keep going. You'll learn loads on the way.

Yeah. And in the time that a lot of people see failures as big, huge blip and negative thing, where failure is just feedback. Like, you will fail. Everybody fails. Any, any athlete, any entrepreneur, any singer, you look at their growth, look at how they started, they failed, they failed, they failed, they failed, they failed, and then they hit it. And so failure is normal, fails to be expected. It's not a bad thing. Failure is going to happen. So expect it and then keep going.

Yeah, and you just gotta do it. You know what it's like. Failure, rejection, whatever it is, you deal with all the time. And in business, there's thousands of examples. Uh, and then in the world of writing, what, J.K. Rowling, uh, for 7 years was rejected. I think 12 publishers turned her down, and then she landed this kind of okey-cokey little, uh, publisher called Bloomsbury. And the rest is history. Harry Potter, what a star. Wow, who would have guessed that? Um, the designer Vera Wang, she was, um, a figure skater, didn't make the US team, didn't make the cut. What a momentous day that was in her life because it said, actually, there's a different path here. And her big idea was design, and she became one of the greatest fashion designers in the world today. So I think it's how you really— she was at the age of 40 as well. So you'd think, wow, figure skater, given— and you are right, you cannot believe how much these figure skaters train. If you're at that level of an athlete, they'll be up every morning at 4:30. They'll be down the rink at 5:30. They'll be just doing 6 hours training. It's relentless. It is. They don't breathe and have a life. All they do is figure skating. And to switch that off and deal with the rejection and bounce back, you know, credit to her. And that's what we've got to be as entrepreneurs.

I love it. Dropping a lot of women entrepreneurs today. Vera Wang, J.K. Rowling, Anita Roddick, the Baroness. I like it. I like it. Okay, next up, Davin White. I have no idea how to start a business, so I'm scared to try. I fear that investors will either not take me seriously or I will have been taken advantage of somehow. I have faith in my idea, but not my ability to make it a reality.

You just got to, number one, take that word behind Evan, believe. Right. So kind of let's not get the sequence wrong as well. Forget the investors, focus on the idea. If the idea, and then focus on who the target customers are. If you got those right, investors will flock to you. You don't have to worry about those guys. You'll have money chasing you everywhere, but you don't want that because that's just the wrong ethos for building a business. You want to start with the idea, then go and find the customers, refine the idea to have a winning product or a service, and then you can always find money for great businesses and growth businesses. That's the least of your problems. And probably actually, Evan, one of these we should do, how do you find kind of growth money and growth capital and all those sort of things? Because there's a whole topic in itself. But the last thing to do is go to the investors. Focus, focus, focus on the idea and get the business going. Do it now. JDI.

Yeah, I love it. It's the theme of the show. I like it. I mean, I totally agree. You'll get destroyed on your valuation if you take money before you have any kind of momentum behind it and you spend your whole time trying to raise money instead of actually trying to build a company. Um, the thing I would say to add is when you start anything, you're afraid, right? Like, you want to learn snowboarding, you're afraid of going down that hill or getting off. For me, it was getting off the chairlift was freaking me out because you only have one foot on the snowboard and I was falling down every time. But anything, anything that you try for the first time, you're going to be afraid to do. And then once you start doing it, it's not that bad. It doesn't seem as bad as this huge fear that you set up in your head. And so it may help us to look at all the other things that you tried to do, whether it was, you know, asking that girl out or learning that new language or going to that new country, whatever it is. Uh, you had fear and you overcame it, and once you did it, you realized it wasn't that hard. It's the same thing with business, just start. There's no right first step. You're going to make mistakes. You don't need to get the investors yet. Don't make it this huge big thing. Just take one step after another, after another, after another. And those little steps will add up to big steps.

Hey, the other thing, Evan, obviously people can listen to you because you inspire people. But there's a couple of examples, both service people. So we talked about Will. We've got a lot of people in the Evvitus Games who have had stuff like their legs blown off and they are saying, I'm going to be successful as an entrepreneur. So if those kinds can do it, wow, you can do it. You should have no fear. The other guy who's had almost 3 careers, amazing. He was in the military, a guy called Justin Paxshaw, amazing guy, TED speaker. But then he became an explorer and an adventurer and he climbed Everest. I think he's sailed around the world. He's been to the North Pole, South Pole multiple times. He's taken disabled service people on these expeditions and made them believe and overcome massive physical disabilities. And he also runs— he's got a really nice jewelry business, high quality, in London town. So he also said to me, is, you know, when you're getting up Everest, it's not about getting up, it's about coming down. I think 1 in 6 people die coming down or something crazy like that. And the mission for everybody in business is almost like an analogy that comes from exploring is you've got to get everybody safely landed and safely down. And he said, when you've dealt with the fear of facing death so bleakly and storms coming in, you should have no fear in your business. So I think just when you look at these people, there's so many inspirational people out there. You just got to overcome your fear. And the way you do that is always take your first step. You know, we could quote Martin Luther King, "How do you climb a giant staircase? You just take the first step." You just got to take the first step. Next Monday, just think, how are you going to do it? Build your product, take your idea to market, go and test it, go and share it with friends and family, and then you build confidence, and then you find out what will work. You refine your idea. You course correct, and you'll have a product that's a winner in the marketplace. You've got to believe.

I love it. What really helped me in my company, because I didn't— my parents weren't entrepreneurs, I didn't have any entrepreneur friends, didn't have an Uncle Joe who could guide me. I just surrounded myself with stories of successful entrepreneurs and how they got started. And every morning I would read a quick story about a famous entrepreneur and how they got started and how they usually had nothing. It provided me with both the motivation to keep going, and it's like, if they could do it, then I could do it. And also some strategies for like ideas of what I could do, because you don't really learn this stuff in school. And so that really, really helped me. And so having an environment that you create, it's only easier now. There's so many YouTube videos out, there's so many books you can read, something kind of daily to get you going, to motivate you and make you believe in yourself. I think is crucial for any entrepreneur because it's a hard, lonely game, especially at the start when you don't have any momentum building up. So creating that environment for greatness is super important in my opinion.

Yeah, Evan, if, if there's any kids out there, you know, you're 12, 13, 14 listening today, then I would say there's some amazing networks set up. One is Junior Achievers, where we sponsor those guys across the US and across the world. And again, we'll tweet the links, but they've got a whole environment. They've got these simulated towns where you can start up your own business and there's loads of entrepreneurs around to help you. And also they can set up mentoring. So if you don't have a network or a family of entrepreneurs, there's loads of different ways to actually get that. So don't feel constrained and go out and find the people who can help you. And again, um, there's so many voices in your head that tell you people won't be prepared to give you their time. People love to see young kids succeed. People love to be asked to help young entrepreneurs. So go and ask people, people you respect, people you can learn from, and people who have made a lot of mistakes in their own careers of entrepreneurship that can help you kind of navigate a really successful path.

I love it. Just a quick shout out to Rishi, Rishi Cup TV, who's saying, uh, Evan and Stephen Kelly, total rock stars who do the best collabs.

So there you go.

Thank you for that, Rishi. We love you too. Uh, okay, next Paul is writing in. Most people who— most people will not follow their passion because of what they believe others will think or say. Often paralysis by analysis is to cover up for worry about what others will think or say. So how do you get over that fear of what other people will think about you and your ideas and potential failure? What advice do you have?

Yeah, I just think you have to be authentic. I think you have to be yourself. I think in 2016, the world is built for authentic people with high integrity. So if, I don't know, 20 years ago, you'd be there, you'd be at school, your mum or pop will want you to be a medic or a doctor or a lawyer or a barrister. If that's not for you, you know, you're going to be sitting there doing your exams when you're 24 years old and you're going to hate yourself. You're going to hate what you're doing. I think you've got to be really authentic with yourselves. And again, you know, you just got to be honest with your family, your friends. And if your path is to follow your dreams through business and entrepreneurship and build something special and unique, you'll pretty quickly find again just like we said, when money follows you, you'll find your family follow you. If you're having some successes, they'll be proud of you. Your mom and dad might think they want you to go, I don't know, and do some other vocation, but the greatest vocation on the planet is being an entrepreneur.

I agree with that. I love that. Yeah, I think at some point you have to decide whether you're going to live your version of your life or someone else's version of your life, right? Are you going to live your parents' version of your life or your culture's version of your life? I think back to, um, the story of Akio Morita, who came from 11 generations of Japanese sake farmers. And you look at the Japanese culture, super traditional, you know, you need to follow what your parents say and your culture says. It's not very individualistic. And 11 generations in the same business, that's a lot of pressure. And Akio said, you know what, I don't care, I'm not— I don't want to do this, I want to do my own business. And he started a little company called Sony, uh, and hopefully made his parents proud. And, you know, just by following his passion for what he wanted to do and said, I'm going to live my version of my life, I don't— I'm not gonna, you know, it's not that I want to disrespect my parents or anybody else, just this is my life and I want to live it. And once you make that decision, then you start— you stop caring as much about what other people think because you realize that this is for me. And I don't care what you think. But it takes, it takes a lot to go through that at the start to realize that you're doing this for you and not for other people.

Yeah, I think I've got 3 daughters, Evan, and I just say to them, look, live your dreams, find what you love. If you don't know what you love, try loads of different things. And I think parents in 2016 are much more into seeing their kids fulfilled and happy. And if it's the case, as in your Sony example, every parent's going to be proud of an entrepreneur because you're making a difference to the community. You're hiring people, you're giving people jobs, you're giving people prosperity. And also you'll just bounce when you come in and see your parents on Thanksgiving or whatever the celebration is. You'll be flying like the eagles. You'll be feeling good about yourself. You'll be giving back more to people because you're you've got a lot to give and a lot of love from the inside. So, you know, having 3 girls, they're all amazing kids. They're all unique. They're all very different. They'll all end up, I'm sure, doing very different things. But I just, as a dad, I just want them to be really happy and never, ever, ever say that I didn't do what I wanted to do because, because the only person to stop them is themselves. I love it.

You're getting parenting advice too. I love it. Uh, Anne is writing in, hi Evan and Stephen, I'm still in university and the main thing that holds me back whenever I think of starting the business is the money to start my business. I want to start the business to be independent, but I really don't know where to get my starting capital. So we kind of addressed this a little bit prior, but you know, for people who feel like I can't start until I have money What do you tell them?

Yeah, I think you've got the best opportunity to start your business. University, I guarantee, even if you're working really, really hard, you've probably got at least 20 hours a week where you could be starting your business, or you could be going to rock concerts or whatever you choose to do. But what a great place where you've got an environment of amazing young people, great intellect around you to test drive your business, develop product ideas, see if your idea is going to make it, refine your idea. I think that's a golden time. I know loads of buddies of mine, even when I was back at university, we went off, we earned money, we started businesses, we saw what worked, we resold stuff, goods. And I think it was a great place. And also, you're going to be around really smart people at university. So that's a great environment. To actually think about starting your business. That's the golden time. And then obviously when you leave university, you should know what ideas are working, what's scaling. You might even have a lot of university students and kids when they leave have already got businesses going. So go for it. I think that's— you are absolutely living the dream at the perfect time where you could create space in your day and your week to actually start your business right now.

I love it. Quick shout out to Franklin Hussein, Evan Carmichael, and Stephen Kelly. You guys are really great. I'm so thankful that people like you exist. So getting the love from Franklin there.

I love you, Franklin.

And to answer your question, I would just try to find a way to start smaller. I think about it, there's a local bake shop here that's really taken off called Bunner's that does organic baking and cooking. And when I first met her, the owner, she was doing church bake sales. You know, like, how much does it cost to go to the basement of a church and sell her stuff? And then fast forward a couple years later, she has her first store, and now she's opening her second store, and now she has cookbooks that she's selling. And it all started by just going to church bake sales. And so if your dream is, I want to have my own store, and I want to have my own line of clothing, I want to have my own line of, you know, cookbooks and all these things, you can start smaller without having to go out and get money by building momentum at church bake sales, right? And so whatever your big dream is, just find a smaller way to get started where you don't need to get a lot of money to do it, and you can start right now to start building momentum, start building an audience, start building the fan base, start learning what works and what doesn't work. You get money, you know, you're going to find out that a lot of the assumptions that you had were wrong. You're going to lose a lot of money in that process too. So whatever your big goal is, just find a smaller way to get started.

Yeah, the other thing, obviously university, a couple of ideas. You'll be around a lot of smart people that could work for you. And I believe, you know, in a sort of startup, if they're at university, they can work for nothing. So they can kind of sacrifice. So you could give them a very small part of the stock of the company in consideration for actually taking no salary. The other thing is you'll be sitting around a lecture room you'll be seeing a lot of smart people, but you'll also see a lot of rich people. They could be angel funders for your business. So they could be part of your network, and whether you want to tap them up now or tap them up in 2 years' time when your business is flying, they'd be a great source of funding because ultimately they'll know you, they'll trust you, they'll like you. And if they like your idea, they're there and they could be a great access to finance and great angel investors.

We have a follow-up question about the parenting advice that you have. I was talking, Sherry was writing in to say she had a talk with her 22-year-old daughter at 3 in the morning. She was afraid to talk to me thinking I would disagree with her decisions in life. I told her that she is an individual, I support her, and she should support me, live your life. What advice do you give the parents to try to create that environment where they feel okay talking to their parents, sharing their life dreams, especially at a time when they're trying to figure out a lot of stuff, they're really stressed out. How do you make them feel comfortable and accepting and, you know, wanting to talk to you and get some advice?

I think first tip is have some more sleep. 3 in the morning, you're pushing the envelope. But no, seriously, I think a couple of things. As a parent, ultimately, look, your kid's 22 years old. It's an adult-to-adult relationship. And I think as parents, you know, I see even when my kids were like 12, 13, we're having really kind of grown-up conversations. The next thing is, so that means what's in your head? Is there another fellow adult? Obviously, as a parent, you've always got your best interest, their best interest. You're probably the one person on this planet that cares about that individual more than they care about them. Themselves. So you've got total integrity about their best interest. Secondly, I think it's really important as a parent to show vulnerability and humility. And that means, you know, kids think their parents got it all right. No, they didn't. They screwed up. They made mistakes. They've got skeletons in the cupboard. They've, you know, they've done all the stuff that you're probably going to do. So if you show your vulnerability and say, look, I'm just a normal person. I've made mistakes. The more authenticity you show, the more honest the conversation you can have about what they're anxious about, what they're excited about, what their big idea is, how could you back them, how could you kind of just gently nudge them towards a network of potential customers, people to market test their product, maybe angel investors who could be friends of yours. All these sort of things, you can open the doors through your experience. But I think the relationship's got to be founded obviously on trust, integrity, honesty. And I would say, you know, it's great for parents to show a bit of vulnerability. So yeah, we screwed up, we made mistakes, we're not perfect. And I think the more we do that, the more honest the conversation.

You know, I have a 6-year-old son, so I can't add as much context as as you can, Stephen. I think a lot of times with parents and kids, you're— maybe it's just where I'm coming from, a 6-year-old— you're spending a lot of time just doing the stuff that you need to do to get done, right? Like make sure your homework is done, you know, make sure you're cleaning your room and just making sure that he's growing up and doing the things that they need to do. Or I think just having some time just to be together and enjoy each other's company, a lot of this kind of stuff comes up to go into deeper conversations. Um, I recently went to drive my dad to go pick up a new car he was buying, uh, it was like an hour out of the city, and, and we drove together for an hour and had nothing else to do but talk to each other. Um, and it was great, you know, like, I don't think we spend enough quality time with our parents that isn't around just something that has to get done. Chores and tasks and quick updates, where to kind of go deeper, whether it's you go to a cottage for a weekend or just something to, you know, reconnect and get to know each other on a deeper level. That's when I think a lot of these things can kind of come out.

Yeah, at 3 o'clock in the morning, that's a great time. Generally, you have very honest conversations, whether you're driving through the country up to a lodge or at 3 o'clock. You just got to create space. And time for each other. And then also, you know, your experience, I don't know, if they've got a really big idea you want to back, wow, why don't you, instead of you just letting them stay in the home and stuff like that, why don't you say, you know, let's have some sort of financial transaction here where you pay something, but I give you that back and we start investing in your business. And then you can say, well, what sort of milestones, what would success look like? You know, what, Where would you want to be in 90 days? You know, how many, how many customers would you want in 90 days? And you can ask the questions that get them thinking about the right things to really start their business and get going.

Cool. Luke, I think what's holding me back is the fear of the unknown. I believe I'm able to— I know I believe I'm able to write great inspirational content, but then what do I do with the material? I'm not a big name. I'm not Tony Robbins or Brian Tracy. Why would someone want motivational advice from me? I'm a regular Joe financially. I'm an absolute superstar in my mind, but readers and audience listen to already successful people. That mindset is pulling me back, I think. Luke.

So Luke, it sounds like you are an awesome writer and, you know, what is it, the 400th year of some guy called Shakespeare. Um, You know, in reality, and we talked about J.K. Rowling, there's a lot of rejection you've got to face. Now, the opportunity for you, I think one of the things that's come out of the digital age is we've lost that incredible capability around writing amazing material that connects the head and the heart and is emotional and evocative. And I think if you're as good as you say you are, you've got a unique skill. So there's loads of ways you could go. Number one, just kill those voices in your head. Get doing stuff. Either start blogging, start creating a fan base, start sending people like Evan and me material. You know, you never know, we might love it and we might say, this is incredible, we want to do ghost blogging with you and stuff like that. There's loads of people out there who want incredible content. So if you have inspirational content The only thing stopping you is what you're thinking and what the voices in the head are telling you, and you've got to cut those limitations off. So I do think whether you go back, you know, 30 years, 20 years, 10 years, the world now through social media, we've lost a bit of the essence of brilliant writing. And I think it's the case that you could actually create a business by again finding your audience, finding your spark around the inspirational content. And whether it's kind of yourself or a market you're looking at, like people like Evan, me, business people, uh, Tony Robbins, all these guys, TED Talkers, everybody wants great material, uh, and great content. And I think great content— the beautiful thing about the digital age is great content will win hearts and minds.

Yeah, and it There's always room for quality. There's always room for quality to the top. There's always room for quality. You might look at a market and say, well, Tony Robbins and Brian Tracy dominate that, but there is always room for quality. Like, that just because some people are at the top right now doesn't mean that you can't have a space in there and be successful. Uh, I think the key is you need to be— you need to be you. Like, if you try to be Tony Robbins it's not gonna work, right? Like you can model somebody who's success, but you need to find what's so special about your message that's unique and different. 'Cause people don't want a Tony Robbins Jr., you know, they want Luke, Luke, what's your story, man? Like, let's hear it. And maybe you speak to a new generation of people. You know, Brian Tracy is 80 years old, right? And he's got a lot of amazing content, but now you could be, you know, the guy for this generation. And so just, there's always room for quality at the top. I think it can hold so many entrepreneurs back to see big players in a new market industry and say, well, I'm never going to be successful. You make something good, you make something people care about, you have a good chance of success.

And you want to go and recruit— you want to go and recruit a few fanatics. And, and you could do some crazy things, like if you got content, script, material, um, send it to people. But, but be a bit different because, yeah, again, it's, it's a world that there's a lot of noise. Just do radical things. Find out someone you really admire where they're speaking hang outside the stage door or whatever and say, just these guys like Brian or Tony Robbins, everybody will give you time. If you grab them when they're walking out, 2 seconds, can I find you inspiring? Can I actually have a bit of mentoring through Skype with you? And you'll find people can give you time. And then you might find them when they're on the stage is name-checking you. And then you'll have your own kind of social presence. And you'll find stuff goes viral. So with this, it sounds like, Luke, you just need to take the first step. You need to believe in yourself. You've got inspirational content. You've got to find what the market is for that, who the audience is, and then you need to kind of get the velocity in and kind of recruit a little volunteer army of people who can sell your brand for you. So Luke is a name we're going to watch for.

There's that word again, velocity.

I love it.

Luke wrote back saying, thank you, Stephen and Evan, awesome answers. Cool. Well, we're at time already. It's crazy how fast an hour goes. Stephen, final message that you have and how people can reach you to learn more about you.

Yeah, so handle @skellyceo, but I think you've said a few times, Evan, it's amazing when we do these sessions.

I love them.

I love you, Evan Almighty. I am in awe of you. And I think the message is a lot of the questions say, I can't. But you're an entrepreneur out there. You can. There's a lot of things in your head that tell you, those little voices say, God, that's hard. How do I take the first step? I'm going to fear failure. It's all about taking that first step and believing. And I think the other thing is age is nothing. Age is meaningless. If you've got an amazing idea, it doesn't matter if you're 80 or 18. There's a marketplace out there. If you're backing it, the market will back it with you. And we're in an age where great products win market. And what took 20, 30 years, and we've talked about Colonel Sanders, KFC, McDonald's, these businesses took 20 years to build. Businesses can be built in months and a couple of years now on a global scale. So if you've got a great idea, it's all about taking that first step. And age is absolutely no excuse. It's all out there for you.

I love it. Stephen almost has 2,000 high fives. Let's— guys watching live, let's give him some high fives. Let's get him over 2,000 there. See it rolling in. I love it.

There you go, we hit it.

Uh, you know, Steve, I know you got a huge company to run. We really appreciate the time you spend with us every month doing this. Thank you so much for your time. Thank you guys for watching live. It's going to be on YouTube as well. Everybody have a great weekend. I'm already feeling better. This is fantastic. Continue to believe, guys, and we'll see you soon.

Take care, guys. Thanks very much. Thanks, Evan.

Cheers.