Stop Hiding Your Pain! (The 80/20 Rule Of Perfect Storytelling)

Most people are terrified to show their real emotions online. There's nothing wrong with crying and there's nothing wrong with being sad or being disappointed or being upset and sharing that. But especially for somebody who wants to be a great storyteller, like the most important thing is emotion. Today I'm sitting down with Justin Pasqua. He knows how to make things look good on camera, but his stories are missing heart. The emotional story with the imperfect words will always resonate better than the perfect words with no emotion. So you want to be a better storyteller? 80% of it is like, be more connected to the thing that you're sharing. So we dive deep into why he hides behind a positive mask and refuses to get vulnerable. Tell me something that you feel.

No, it's funny because like, I never really unpack it.

I know, that's why you're not a great storyteller yet. What are you afraid of?

It's not what I'm afraid of, it's what I'm lacking.

And by the end of the session, he realizes the exact steps he needs to stop playing small and finally step up.

Evan.

Yeah, here we go.

You know what, this is one of those where— and I've told you this in the past— there's so many of your videos that's always talking about, oh, did you know that Adidas started with— those kind of things. But something I feel like we're missing is the stories of Evan Carmichael. One of my favorite stories, I want you to retell it to me. In a little bit more depth, um, the importance of taking the opportunities when they come. And I feel like you haven't shared recently the photo. It's one of my favorite stories.

I don't know, you know, I don't know what you're talking about. Paris. Oh, I used to tell a story a lot. Okay, what, what What did you like about it, or I didn't say well last time?

I mean, I'm just interested in you continuing to tell this story, and in the same way, same light, 'cause the lesson there is, I almost missed this opportunity. And what I like about being reminded, 'cause I mean, you say it all the time, like people need to be taught more than they need to be reminded. So what is the—

Do I say that? I think it's more of the opposite, you gotta be reminded more.

Sorry, you need to be reminded more than you need to be taught. So with that being the case, like, I want you to hit me with like a— I mean, this isn't going to be a podcast. This is all strictly like— I want it to be short form. I want to be like spliced up. I want you to start off by telling me why it is so important to hit— take the opportunities when they come and then lean into that story. I know it's so inauthentic, but it's like—

Perfect. Let me give you the most inauthentic start and go crush it.

Yeah, it's authentic because I just want that. The way I want these videos to be structured is very like, tell me, tell me what I need to hear and then lean into that story. And trust me, I have so many in my head. I have so many stories that I want you to retell with these important lessons.

I don't have a problem telling stories, right? I think the prompting is the valuable thing and knowing like how to, how to best, not just me share it, but what else has to be surrounding around it. Like, why does it matter? I think one of your things that you're great at is being able to, like, extract— you're genuinely curious about it, and your curiosity hopefully makes the audience curious, but it also makes the, the guest more into it. Because they might be telling a story they've told a million times, or sort of like, why do you care about my shirt, or whatever. But because you're so curious about it, you, you get them more, like, into it. Like, I think that's one of your superpowers, is that ability to like make them feel excited about the thing that they're sharing, even if they're feeling like this doesn't matter, like what are we talking about. The idea that was just going through my head there is, uh, one, you said, hey, I'd love for you to share more Evan stories.

Cool.

Like, I have nothing against that. Uh, what stories and what angle and like what's interesting to you and, uh, And then what needs to be around it to make it helpful as a video, right? What we just did with like the Markham story, right? You asked me who was the most memorable story or whatever. Like, how do you wrap that into something? Maybe what I said wasn't enough, right? Maybe it is if you're talking about like 45-second Instagram, maybe. Does it, does it get spliced with like Markham B-roll or Markham saying something or whatever? But there are things, either physical things, like I think about my office. There's the Doritos bag.

Yeah.

There's the giant bronze Guan Yu statue. There's like baseball cards. There's the skateboard that I— first thing that I ever bought. To your point of everything having a story, how do we tell a story? Maybe, and maybe it's not interesting, maybe like, I don't know, Forget about your skateboard story, first thing you ever bought. I think that's stupid.

Okay, cool, we don't have to talk about that story, but there's a lesson behind that.

I'm just joking. But like, the point is, whatever you are drawn to is, is the thing that is the best thing to focus on, because your energy will create energy in me as well as the audience. Like, the fact that you think that this is so cool, as opposed to like, I'm looking for a story, what do I talk about? Yeah, and it's forced. Versus like, why do you wear those shoes? Yeah, out of genuine curiosity.

Fake.

Not, not that it's like you kind of care about some things, but when it's like you're reaching as opposed to like genuinely care. Yeah, you're not into it and then I'm not into it and then the audience is definitely into it and they're like, great, we have some content that's like whatever, but it's not the thing versus whether it's a physical thing like in my office or in the studio or whatever. Like it's easy for you to say, tell me the story about the family sign.

Yeah.

You know? And you know, you'll ask some smart follow-up questions around it, but it's like, it's fake, bro. You don't care about the family sign. If you cared about it a lot, you'd ask me about it already, right? It's like, I know that you're just trying to get a story, and it's not real, bro. So like, but what do you actually care about that is—

that is—

you find interesting or curious or want to learn more about that then you can wrap with something else? So whether it's like the actual something physical that you can see, —so I went to props in the thing. You could ask me—if I said, "Make a story about the sign," right? That awesome sign that Greg brought, right? You could ask me questions. You know, you could find stuff and you could—but, like, I don't know. You don't care enough. I know that you're just trying to find an angle as opposed to actually caring about the sign. And being curious, yes. And it's not that you don't care about the sign, but you're just looking for a story as opposed to being, like, a genuine thing for you. And so that's going to bother me. And like, I don't want to talk to you about the sign. Like, you don't care about the sign. Don't tell me— bring up something. I care about the person's like emotional connection to the thing that we're talking about, because if you genuinely care, I'll genuinely care and show up. If it's just like trying to find something to talk about, it's forced, it's fine, but it's like, it's not— and it's never going to be great. It's like, what do you genuinely care about or find interesting about anything that I'm doing, whether it's a prop, something in my background at my house, whether it's this dance studio, whether it's Mastermind, whether it's, um, something you heard me tell Yesung or you or, or Alex, or how I run my team. Or like, even the Mastermind questions were okay, but just okay, right? It's like, okay, it's not like you're asking questions to try to get something, you're kind of into it, but like Some of them were better than others. Yeah. Some of them were just questions. Yeah. Right? You know why? And some of them were like, oh, like you're genuinely curious about it. Yeah. I could tell the difference and I still went along and answered it. It's like, why should somebody join the Evan Carmichael podcast? Yeah. It's such a fake-ass question.

That was a tie-off.

What is this dumbass question you're asking me, right? Like, how do you get that? How do you? It's your fault, right? Like, if you actually cared about that, then I would have had a better answer.

If there's one thing I'm actually curious about, it's how much do you genuinely care about having the right people in the room?

Yeah, so like, why didn't you ask that question?

Because I mean, I didn't ask it in the way that I should have. It kind of just ties into—

Well, like, I would say 75% of the questions you didn't ask in the way that you should have.

Yeah, yeah, I agree. I walked into that with 3 questions, and then I wanted to practice pulling on strings. Because if there's one thing I—

Yeah, but you were pulling on strings. You were in your head pulling on things as opposed to like actually being curious about the thing. Yeah, yeah. You're naturally talented, not to fill you up too much, you know, but like you are naturally talented at it and you're curious and you are, you're good at it. And so you can like fluff your way through stuff. And for most people, I'll be like, oh my God, that was like, he was asked such thoughtful questions. It's because like nobody ever asked some questions about anything ever. So like it doesn't matter, you could be like just okay and like wow people. Yeah, right. But you can tell when you're genuinely into the thing versus— I mean, I'm— maybe I could have just walked off and left the interview or whatever. Like, I like how you thought about the, the lighting. Yeah, how does it look? I don't know, maybe it looks terrible, dude. Maybe it's the worst thing of all time. Maybe the whole thing falls apart. I'm not pissed at you that you tried a new lighting setup, right? I love it. The questions themselves are words like just Okay, I don't know what you're gonna— like, if you're gonna turn that into a 2-minute thing, I'm sure there's something in there that is gold. But like, I would have rather you been more deeply curious, like, what's the thread? Pulling on threads means you're genuinely curious. You have 10 questions, you want to ask all these questions. These are all like, not just in service— like, a good documentary is not, I'm trying to achieve this specific outcome. That's not a documentary, right? You're like finding the story. That is awesome that you want to tell. If you already know the ending, what are we doing? You're scripting a documentary. It's like, not— it's not— how do you script a documentary?

You know what, that leads me to an actual question here. If you want— if someone were to make a documentary of your life, what would that look like?

Of my life?

Of your life.

I have no idea. Like, I, I love working with artists. So it's like, if Greg, who makes that sign, right? It's like, what would a sign look like with believe? You tell me, man. Like, you're the copper guy. You make it whatever you want to do. So he made it. He found like this scratched up piece of copper, and he put it on this— he mounted it on that piece of wood. And for him, like, that was— he's looking at it with pride for 2 weeks before he brings it to me. Like, that's perfect. If you ask me, I would have said make it our font. You want our font? Make it our font. Here it is. Put some gold in there. But I would have ruined it because now I'm forcing him to do something that's not him. He would have done it, but he would have felt less proud about it. And I look at it like, oh yeah, okay, because I ruined his art, right? Like, I ruined it.

Do you know why that's so real? It is real. No, that's so real because whenever I make reels for you, that's the only thing I think is like, would Justin do this, or is this like just on brand of Evan Carmichael?

The on-brandness is like, it's got to be positive. I'm not worried about you like ruining the brand, right? Yeah. And there's always tweaks and changes that maybe is made afterwards, but like, I am killing his art by saying what I want in a copper sign. I don't know what a good copper sign looks like. I'm not a copper guy. So like, what does a good documentary look like? Even if you look at Peter and Casey, right, they would do completely different things. Yep. To tell Casey, I need you to like zoom in on the coffee bean when I'm making it in the morning or whatever. It's like, he's, he's not gonna do that. Well, he might, but then I'm ruining his art. That's right. So like, I don't even want to tell you what to do. You, what do you, what are you interested in and curious about?

Why is art like— why are you so fascinated by art, or artists, I should say?

Uh, I mean, I think everybody's an artist. I think everybody's got something to contribute. I love, I love bringing out— like, I want you to bring out the best of whatever you can bring out. And I like co-creating. So what are we making? I can only be me. And I suck at following. Same thing. If you tell me you have to do this, I might try, but I'm probably going to suck at it. Say these 4 lines, I'm going to forget them. Like, 1 line max, and I'm out. And it'd probably be delivered poorly. Right? So how do we mesh? How do we dance? We're in a dance studio. When you have a salsa, it's a lead and follower thing, right? And the man is the leader, is leading the moves, and the woman, the follower, is like choosing to follow and execute. And there is a— every time you dance with somebody is slightly different. Even I'm doing the same move, I'm going to do a right turn with somebody, right? The, the finger pressure is different with people. How quickly she moves is different. How much force I have to give her is very different depending on who I'm dancing with. And so when you first start dancing with somebody, it's a— you're, you're like trying each other out and you're trying to see. Even as I'm doing this, I see you like bouncing with me, right? Like you're in it. That's the point. So you have to vibe each other out. I want to bring what I'm good at to the table, and hopefully there's an artist who can like capture that and then bring their thing with it too. I hate telling artists what to do because I don't know your art. I don't know what's a documentary look like, whatever you want. I don't know, what do you find interesting? You could, you could spend the whole time talking about my parents or the whole time talking about this dance studio. As long as you find it interesting, I'm down. It was like, oh, like, I need to talk about this because blank, or like, what would you think a documentary is like? That's for me, that's the wrong question to ask. I don't know how to help you. Yeah, yeah, it's like you're asking me, how should I be a Filipino? I don't know, be Filipino, bro. I don't know, I don't know what to tell you.

It's funny because I'm trying to figure out like where— no, that's funny. Do I know what being Filipino— I'm curious what you tie your identity to. And because that leads into the like, what would you make your documentary about? It's like, what part of Evan's life? Because obviously we don't know I wouldn't make my documentary.

You wouldn't? I wouldn't make my own documentary. I wouldn't know what to do. I have no idea. So I would work with talented people. Like, if I wanted a documentary made for whatever reason, I don't know why, like, I have no need for a documentary about Evan Carmichael, but if I wanted it, then I would start working with different people. Who do I vibe the best with? What's your vision? What do you like about— what do you find curious about my life? It's like, I love how you are with your dogs all the time. Okay, I don't know, I don't, I don't mesh with that vision. I don't want to— I don't want to document about my dogs, right? Cool, but that's what you want to make, respect. Cool, you should go work with somebody who wants to make a documentary about their dogs. We may not align on the vision, right? But I also don't want to always cheat you of your vision. Like, if you want to go work with people who want to profile their dogs, awesome. Like, go do that. Don't work with me because you're gonna, you're gonna bastardize what you want to do to work with me. And like, nobody's going to be happy, and we'll just spend 6 months kind of wasting each other's time. And you'll end up with something that might, that might be good for the world, or like people look at and say, oh my God, look what you did. But you'll know that it's like, this was kind of crap. And I'll know, like, this wasn't fun. And so it's like you're dancing to the wrong music. I would talk to different people who had documentary ideas and like, hey, what do you need to know? Like, what do you want to— if you want a documentary, here's what I do, here's my life. What do you have? What's your vision? And see which vision I like instead of forcing my vision on something. Like to say, why do you want a documentary? And then I would answer. I, I hopefully have a reason. I want to leave a message for my grandkids. And show my life. Okay. Yeah. Uh, well, what do you want your grandkids to know about you, right? It's like, there's a reason hopefully why I want a documentary, and there's a reason why the documentary person does documentaries in the first place. And hopefully those are like close enough aligned that for a moment in time of 3 months or 6 months or whatever, like, we're running this parallel path that it makes sense for us to do this together. And if it doesn't, then cool. With that being said, actually, this is—

in your opinion, what makes a good story? Like, what do you watch? What do you hear? What have you lived and you thought, okay, well, that's a good story because—

I think the best stories that I connect with are when you see yourself in the person on the screen. That then makes you, one, feel something, and then two, make some kind of shift in your life. So you watch a movie or you watch a TV show, you watch a YouTube video or whatever, and like, I connect to that person. The fact that they did that thing makes me believe that I can do that thing. Step one. And then two, I'm gonna make a change in my life because I want— and we've all had those. Like, you've watched something or read a story or like read a book or whatever that Made you feel something first. That's the first bar. Like, because make you feel something could be funny, it could be entertainment, could be forget about your life. And that's— there's value in that too. Entertainment is valuable, but doesn't change anything. It just gave you a reprieve from something that you may not be happy about. But make somebody feel something first. And then two, the higher bar— like, that's already a high bar because most stories don't. Like, most— how much do you scroll through Instagram? I'm like, nothing. Nothing, nothing. Doom scroll, right? You don't feel anything. Or it's a negative, like you feel fear, you feel hatred, you feel upset, you feel anger, you feel jealousy, you feel envy, right? That's a lot of doom scrolling. It's like you're not in a happy place. You don't feel better coming out of doom scrolling than you did going in. And now you spent 2 hours doing what exactly? So most stories are not making people feel a positive emotion. So it's a first, actually fairly high bar. I think. But then the even higher bar is then I'm going to change something in my life as a result, that I'm going to call my mom and say something. I'm going to decide that I'm going to lose 35 pounds. I'm going to enter that race. I'm going to take on that big real estate client that I don't think I'm good enough for yet. I'm going to blank, whatever, right? Like I'm going to— I'm going to do something. So that's what I think is the power of a really good story.

I want to bring this back to even your content because you share a lot of stories. When you're retelling a story, where is your head at when it comes to like the structure of it? Because the reason why I ask— do you know who Ask Vin is? He's a communication coach. Okay. And you know earlier I said closed mouths don't get fed. I also, I wanted to take it a step further and help people recognize that a skill set that needs to be worked on is communication. Because if you don't know how to deliver a story, if you don't know how to make people feel a certain way, uh, the message is dead. Sure. So how do you go about communicating a story? Because you're like, you are a great storyteller. That's all— I'm now thinking about that. That's all you do. So how do you go about structuring?

The most important thing about a story, I think, is not the structure. It's your emotional connection to the story. Like, you could get on and say nothing for 30 seconds, and the person knows that you're feeling something. I was telling a story, um, last night I had dinner with Markham. I'm talking about his son and legacy. I was recounting the story basically of like legacy is one of the pieces that he wants to build for his channel, like encouraging people to have a legacy. And I'm telling about the story of Markham, his son, being a month away from dying and walking the New York Marathon. And the fact that he did that is an inspiration to other people. That now somebody might go and get their colon checked early and actually save somebody's life. And that he wasn't running it to win the race. He didn't win. He sucked. Like, 7 hours is— 7.5 hours is a terrible time. But he finished the race like a month before he died. And even if he didn't finish the race, it's still a huge win. And if he didn't, and if he didn't finish the race but he wanted to, like, Markham, you would have grabbed the wheelchair and like wheeled him to the finish line. It's not even a real story, but as I was saying that, I was getting emotional over dinner just sharing that. And it just changes the whole dynamic of the conversation because I know Markham and what a kind person he is, how much he cares for his son, that he like, he would have wheeled him across the finish line just to finish the race. So what's the structure? Like, where's the hook? Or— it matters, but the most important thing is, are you emotionally committed to what you're even saying right now? So when you said at the beginning of this, like, hey, can you recount the story of the France thing? It's like, uh, you don't even I don't care about that, bro. I don't want to talk about that. Like, that might be the most important story that I tell, or like, hey, tell me this story that you've already told. Like, bro, like, why do you care right now? If I don't know why you care about this thing, then I don't care. I'm disconnected. Everybody— and you can have the perfect intro and story and a hook and let me tell you about whatever, the buzzwords, yada yada yada. It's, it's all valuable, but it's like, that's the final 20%. Because somebody like the 80/20— the 80 is like, are you emotionally connected to what you're even saying? Because you could start off with nothing for 30 seconds and you're like locked in waiting to see what's going to happen. Just because that person is feeling something, and just by watching them, right? How much communication is non-verbal? Just by watching them, you're already locked in. Like, I don't know what's going on with this person, but I want to find out.

I love that the one thing that you continuously want to spread is belief. And if, like, you, you say it all the time, like, if If the video itself just allows people to believe in themselves, it belongs on the, like, on the feed. And I was challenging myself trying to figure out during the actual mastermind what kind of content would that look like. And I truly feel like it's going to be one of those where when I ask the right questions on Do you even feel like you belong here? Like, that's a huge belief. And like, for me, it's like, do, do these videos belong on your page? Well, we just have to stay straight on the why. This one's gonna be more personal with me. Uh, when it came to wanting to be known for a thing, I thought I had to be I'm so sure of like, oh, like I have to incorporate story into everything. What would your advice be for me in regards to wanting to be known as this, like a guy that tells great stories? Like if you were to tell me, hey, Justin, like for the next 6 months, this is what you have to do, what would you say?

You want to be known as a guy who tells great stories? Yeah. Who helps people tell great stories, not just you telling great stories.

I mean, even before this, remember, I don't know if early last year, I said I want to be known for 3 things. I want to be a guy that had a great story, um, tell great stories, and help people tell stories.

So why do you care about being known for anything?

The reason why that dropped was it— that was— I feel like that was solely ego. And one quote that I loved, and I, I say it often Um, okay, so if you remove ego, then what? Then the only two important things would be able to tell a great story and help people tell stories.

Oh, why? Like, if it's not about you being known for something— because like, the reason why I put a question back to you is because I reject the premise of your question. It's like, your question was, how do I get known for blank? Yep. It's like, I don't care what you're known for. Like, why do you even want to get known for something? It's like, oh, because of egos. Like, okay, well then I don't want to answer that question. So then, like, what's the actual question? Because giving you an answer to feed your ego is not interesting. That's not the only question that's buried in there. It's not just about you being known for something. Why do you care about stories so much? It's not because you want to get known. I'm a part of it, but—

Have you ever faced an identity crisis?

Nothing like major. What do you mean nothing major? I struggle to connect. Like, I'm boring in the sense that I can regulate emotions, like, pretty well, right? So it's like I don't have high highs and I don't have low lows. It's— it— so I don't— like, oh my God, who am I? What am I doing? And, uh, when something is off, I change. If you have an identity crisis, I think it's because you've been doing things for too long in the wrong direction, and now you have to force a major change. I don't really do that. I do micro adjustments all the time without overthinking it. So it's like, if I didn't like you for whatever reason, like, okay, you know, I'm from— I'm Justin, whatever. This guy never shows up and does what I asked him to do, yada yada. Okay, I'm done, next. And I'm like, moving on. I was like, I make micro adjustments all the time as opposed to like waiting 6 months for something or a year or 6 years or whatever, and then like midlife crisis have to make a major shift, right? Now sometimes things happen, like becoming a parent, like you can't even expect that, and so like that forces things going on and having experiences, going on trips and having like something happen to you. But I go away for a few months and come back, like my team was already expecting something, something I'm going to come back with some new idea and something's going to shift. But I'm like, I'm doing that from there, I'm doing it on the airplane on the way home, like micro shifts all the time. As soon as I am not connected to something anymore, that's out. Yep. And as soon as I feel something connected to— I start doing it without judgment over, for the most part, like, what it is. So it never gets to like identity crisis because I've made pivots along the way.

You've always been steadfast in who you are.

I think I have more clarity. Like, believe was not something that I had— it was always in me, but I didn't— I couldn't vocalize it until I don't know how old I was, whenever. It's just before I wrote Year One Word, like maybe a year before that. Um, and look, and it's fair to have an identity crisis. Like, I think, I think, uh, it just means I think you've been out of alignment for too long. And like, that's awesome that you now are recognizing it. And so Cool. Now what are you going to do about it? But it's not feeding the ego with what I'm going to be known for. Like, who— why do you even care about being known? Who cares? There's lots of things you'd be known for. Think about that question. You're asking a question of like, here's the most important question I have, really just for like validation of other people. Mm-hmm. What do people think of me is not a great way to live life. Really?

You know, it's funny that you say that because one of the questions I ask people all the time is like, what do you want to be known for? Yeah.

Do you think that's a silly question? No, I think, I think it's a fair question. I think, I think there's a, I think, I think there's a better question you could ask, but like, I think, I think people mostly answer in a positive way. Okay. But it's really, uh, underlying insecurity. Like, we are tribal. Anybody says, like, I don't care what people think about me, it's not true. Like, of course you care what people think about you. You don't have a business, you can't be an entrepreneur. Like, customers have to think good things about you to have a business. If you burned every relationship you had, you wouldn't be successful as a human. If you never cared what anybody thinks about you, you're not a successful human. Like, you're a hermit by yourself living in the woods or something, I guess. It doesn't mean that you should overly care though. Like, you don't need to care about everybody's opinion of you, but the people you're trying to live life with, you know, it kind of matters what they think about you. But to have that be like the core reason for your decision-making is just, I'm doing this only because I care what people think about me.

Yeah, because I'm— wouldn't it be a byproduct? Wouldn't it not be a byproduct of like furthering your success? And what I mean by that is, uh, my Instagram, when I made that video about the event, it's like, where— how did that affect— because there's always a cause and effect of everything that you put out online, uh, whether it's positive, negative, it doesn't matter. But, uh, did that help grow the brand of Justin Pasqua and like what he wants to be known for? Is he being now just being known, oh, he can take photos at events?

You are being known as a photographer. Yeah. Now and then you'll get people to say, oh, can you take pictures at my event? Which again, like you, you want your clients to know you for something so they hire you and tell their friends about you. Again, if you need short-term cash, awesome. Like don't be a starving artist and go broke, especially as a new dad, right? Like that's not a good idea.. But do you want to be known as the photographer? And I think the biggest challenge is just intentionality as to what you're making. But it's less just to be known as that thing. I would ask that question, what's the impact you want to make? Like, if you asked— if you asked most people, what was your first point? What do you want to be known for? And what's the impact you want to make? They'll answer it the same way. It's the same question. But it's not the same question, at least for me. One man's opinion, whatever. If you ask me, what do you want to be known for? I don't know. I don't care. I don't want to be known for anything.

But if I were to ask you, what impact do you want to leave on this world?

Right. Not even on the world. I don't know. What's the impact you want to make? I would answer it differently. Right. I think it's a fair question. I don't think most people even think about the difference. So I don't know that that needs to necessarily change how you show up, but for people who have a distinction like that, then it's like, I don't want to be known for anything. Like, some people love the idea of having like a library named after them, or like the wing of a hospital, or they want a statue, you know, like the olden days militaries. Like, I'm doing this for the glory so that like my name lives on and I have a statue of me. Right? I don't care. And that's not right or wrong. It's just a person. I don't, I don't care to have— like, I'm dead. I'm, I'm worm food. Like, I'm trying to have as big an impact as I can. Serving people makes you feel good. I like helping. I want to have an impact. I want to feel like what I do matters every day. I feel like I'm going to wake up today and it's going to matter to somebody, right? That's the impact I want to make. If you ask me what's my story, like, I don't know, what do you want to— I don't know how to answer that question. What do you want to know? There's a million stories.

Yeah, I mean, I am curious now, like, where would— where does your mind first lead you when that question is asked?

What's your story? Yeah, I don't know, what do you want to know? I, I don't know how to answer that question. It's like, what's a documentary about your life? Somebody, somebody might have a Uh, oh, it would be about like how I lost weight and now and wanted to be a police officer. And I like— they have that already kind of mapped out. I'm, I'm— what are we, what are we making? I don't know. What— how do I help you? I don't even know what part of my story is even valuable to you or what you're trying to create.

Would you tie your story to something that you want to leave an impact to someone?

To the person I'm talking to? Yeah. Like, I want to— if I'm doing this, I want to help you. Like, what are you actually curious about? If I'm on somebody's podcast or whatever, I'm trying— I have a million stories I could share. Everybody does. What's the story that can, back to the criteria, like, make you feel something and hopefully inspire some kind of change? It's like, what book should I read? I don't know. What do you care about? Like, what are you struggling with right now? Like, people say, what book should I recommend? And they just say, oh, you should read blank book because it's really helpful for me. Okay, but that doesn't necessarily help you. What video should I watch? What book should I read? What are you struggling with right now?

I do think there's an answer there, and it all— it all tied back to lack of belief. And if there's a story in your life that's like, if someone were to ask you like, what's your story, it would be tied to, okay, here's a story on where I lack belief and where I found it, or I helped this person who lacked belief and helped them like I feel like that's what— if I was in your shoes. Yeah, but that's like—

but no, but that, that's, that's not my shoes at all. Like, that's terrible, bro.

What do you mean?

Like, that is forcing a narrative of belief. Okay. The only story I want to tell is the one that helps you the most. You, Justin Pasqua, and/or your audience, if like we're making something for you. But even I would say for your audience to get the most value you should get the most value. Like, stop even thinking about your audience, think about you, because if you care about it, they'll care about it. So all I care about is helping the person in front of me. And me telling my story about belief may be the most important story you need to hear, but also like may not be at all. Maybe the Paris story is much better. Maybe a story about my dogs is much— I've never talked about that family sign. Yeah, you've come and filmed. I've never talked about that story. But this guy comes in as a metal worker That's a metal sign. I wanna support that art. And now I have a story to tell him. I wasn't thinking about it. I saw him, I saw the sign, like, oh, I should tell him about the sign. I interrupted his interview to talk about the sign that's not even on camera. And like, good on you to then film something at least afterwards so that like, what is he even talking about right now? So the story, if you wanna, if you pass it through the benchmarks of like, does this make somebody feel something? And is it gonna make a change in their life? Me saying about Believe, I'm just guessing. Now, if I'm telling a story from stage, okay, cool. Hopefully hit somebody. I've told enough stories that you kind of know which ones might work. But if I'm talking to somebody one-on-one, I want it to be an end-of-one experience. Like, what do you care about? Like, tell me your story. I don't know, what do you wanna know? I mean, wherever you go, I'm good to go. Tell me about your childhood and where you were born. Tell me about your relationship with your parents. 'Cause if you're gonna ask me about my relationship with my parents, you're thinking about your parents. Yeah. If you're gonna ask me and be like, "What's it like being a father?" It's 'cause you just had a kid. Yeah. But if I told you fatherhood stories like a year ago, you'd be like, "Oh, you know, whatever." Like, it's fine, it's cool, but it's like it doesn't hit the same way. So it's the same thing of working with an artist. Like the questions you ask are hopefully, if you do not ask questions that are valuable to you, I don't want to have the conversation, but I'm happy to go wherever you want to go, almost, as long as it's important to you. So when I was doing interviews, we actually sent out a video now before we do interviews. I think we've talked about this before, maybe not, because people would do interviews with me, which I'm always like, it's awesome and fun to do. And then once they stop recording, they'd be like, you know what I really want to ask you, bro? Why didn't we start with— what did we just— yeah, what did we just spend half an hour on? How about we just start with that question and then pull on the thread of that so I can actually help you? So we send them a video now in advance. Don't introduce me, don't read my bio, and ask the question. Not because I don't care about that, it's just, hey, if we have half an hour together, yeah, let's use it to like the most effective time. What are you curious about? How can I help? What in my story— like, you want me on your show, what What is it about what I've done that is kind of interesting to you? And how can I— let's talk only about that. You know what?

I love that you said that because it probably leads to the only question I care about. How can I be a better storyteller?

Talk about things that mean something to you. Back to the emotional commitment. What do you care about? What is interesting to you? What is fun? When you feel something emotional, like you're here, right? And you got 3 days of Mastermind. You'll have a bunch— you said you leave Mastermind feeling energized and charged. Okay, great. So you have a bunch of these moments where you feel energized and charged up. Okay, any heightened emotion, film. Like, what happened? Or a heightened emotion can also be something negative, right? Great, film. Like, before we turn on the cameras, I kind of beat you up a little bit out of love. But like, if you went home after that, you'd be like, okay, like, I just got my ass kicked because of blank. And like, I I don't feel good about it, but it— because the emotional story with the bad words, not bad like negative words, but like the imperfect words will always resonate better than the perfect words with no emotion. Tell me something that actually means something to you that you're feeling. And you have a chance to feel every day, but especially when there's heightened emotion. So something happens at Mastermind or in life, or you're just— You're pensive and you're reflective and like you're super— you were down and who's your friend who pulled you? Brandon? Brayden. Brayden? Shout out to Brayden. Like, awesome. Like, tell me about— reconnect to Brayden and whether you film it like right after, like you're great at documenting stuff. So I'd film it. You wanna be a better storyteller? Film it right after you hung up with Brayden, even for yourself. Like, I was so sad. That nobody, I felt like nobody was gonna show up for me like I showed up for them. And it made me feel lonely and I don't belong and like I don't have any real friends. And I know it's not true, because I know people love me and I'm gonna do my race and I think people will show up, but it's still how I felt. And like, I'm not, I was really low and I called Braden and he made me feel whatever, love, acceptance, yada yada yada, right? And like, you tell the story. You'll stumble and it won't be great and you won't have a hook and you will— it won't follow a structure. But at the very least, you get to see, like in the playback, you get to see what you look like when you actually are in the moment feeling that story. When you recount it, like you try to put yourself back into that position of being alone and afraid and isolated and sad after you did all this work for other people. And so you get to see what emotional— because emotion is the most important thing. So practice that. Like when actors are crying, I mean, I would have the hardest time. I don't know how, like I can't fake, it's really hard for me to fake things. But at least what I've heard is like you're thinking about something that actually happened. If you're going to cry, they cry on command because they're thinking about like their grandfather who passed away. It was like their best friend. Yeah. So they cry, but like, but they're crying because Tony, uh, you know, in the show insulted them or something, right? They know it's a fake, but like they're, they're connecting. You're crying because you're connecting to a real emotion that you're feeling. That's a real skill to be able to like act. Uh, I don't know how to do that. So you want to be a better storyteller, 80% of it is like be more connected to the thing that you're sharing. Even when I come up with you and like I hit you on the spot and say, hey, Justin, what's our message? I know you're going to come up with something. It's always good. You're all— you're now you're kind of ready. You're like, I'm going to roll up on you. You're going to have something ready to go maybe. But there's also very little like emotion. Yeah, it's just like high energy and it's like some wisdom and like people are impressed that you can come up with something so quickly. But like, is it actually meaningful? Like, it's okay, it's fine, it's better than normal people, I guess. But like, it's not— what were you think— like, what were you actually thinking about today? You're driving in here, how long does it take you to get here? An hour. An hour. You're sitting there by yourself for an hour, you listen to something. Yeah, what?

Iceman. Iceman. Drake's new album.

Oh, okay, okay. So the whole trip you'd listen to Iceman? Yeah, yeah. What makes you put on Drake this morning? This is gonna—

I mean, it kind of— it's whatever it is. No, it's because how much I'm like so involved in his story. Like, I— the whole album is a— I mean, I don't know if you've listened to it, but it's a diss to like every other rapper.

Started from the bottom, and I mean, that's like the only song I know, which is not great because he's 416, and like, I should know more. And then he's done a lot for Toronto, and yeah, putting on the map, and like A lot of Canadians are upset, like they hide the Canadian-ness, and Drake has been like full-on like supportive, right? But like, you could have listened to anything. Yeah. You could have, you could have been prepping for this. Yep. Right? You could have been listening to a podcast or an audiobook or whatever. When did this album drop? The last month. Last month? And how many times you listen to it?

It's still on repeat.

I don't know why. Like, I'm gonna go film this episode, I, I'm I'm trying to do something new with Evan. I don't know if it's going to work out. I'm kind of scared about it. I'm nervous. I hope— like, I've been trying to figure out things for the past 3 years to do something, and it always fails. And yet I'm on my way to drive to the thing, and I have an hour by myself. And instead of thinking about what I should be doing, I'm listening to Iceman by Drake. You know why? I don't know why, but like, I'm invested in this story now. Like, here's what you should be doing, but now you're doing this instead because this thing like means something to you. Who cares about Drake? Like, what has Drake ever done for your life? Like, nothing except everything because the story means something to you. Like, Drake doesn't care about you, probably. Like, champagne poppy, maybe leaving some, some love on the, on the IG or something, but like he doesn't care about you. Like, there was a great, um, I think it was Once Upon a Time in America or like A Bronx Tale or something where like the kid, like old school New York, and the kid loves Mickey Mantle. Okay, baseball player from here. And the guys, the dad's like, why do you care about Mickey Mantle? He doesn't care about you. He's not doing anything for you. And then like the kid then like realized that, oh, these guys, these idols don't care about me, so I'm going to stop caring about them. But their story can make you feel something and make your life better because you see something in them that you can go chase. You have more permission and belief to go chase your thing. So there's something in Drake, like maybe listening to Drake on paper was like the worst thing to do because you're not spending time thinking about what to do here and how to show up better and using that time intentionally and you're shutting off the world. Or maybe it's the best thing because it puts you into, I'm going to go frickin' crush this thing. I'm going to be— I'm going to be the Drake of my craft today and not play small. And like, whatever Iceman means, and then the whole arc of him dissing all these rap— rappers and everything else, right? Like, the guts to go off and do that, like, you're not doing, right?

So that's the biggest lore of, uh, Drake. Like, do you know the story of Drake? A little bit, yeah. He's been an underdog, and then he was on the come up, and now everyone's kind of like against him, and like, I just don't know why. So then you listen to this album and you think, oh my gosh, um, I actually— so now listening to Iceman, I dove deeper into his, like, his actual people, like his crew. Like, there's gonna be people that come up with you and like will pull from you, and then— yeah, but why do you care? What do I— it makes me recognize like who I I want to have by my side. Yeah, but what's so—

okay, so like, why don't you have those people?

There's a song, Firm Friends, that Drake plays, and it always talks about you'll never know who your main ones are because everyone wants to be a main character. Okay, so, but— so, and then that's why I love this quote. It's like, I helped someone climb up to the top of the mountain. I then too found myself at the top of the mountain. Uh, it all kind of connects. And this is—

but what does that mean to you? Who cares?

It means to me, it's basically making sure I find my people.

And so why didn't you find your people? Where did you not find your people?

I'm still kind of on that journey.

Like, no, but no, but like, that's such a— like, yes, but like, give me something, bro. You're— there's a deep emotional reason why this song means something to you. Yeah, where I said there's an emotion to it and there's like a life change. Why are you listening to this song on repeat for a month, or this album? Like, it— there's meaning to it. Yeah. Not just, "Yeah, like, I want to be with people who take me to places, and I want to build them up, and they build me up, and like, it's all—" If I'm being real—

There's no emotion. I mean, the emotional part is it all comes down to community. Like, if there's some—

That's not emotional. Evan, listen to how you said it.

No, when I say community, it's like, who actually are your people, and—

Okay, but who cares? What happened to you? I wanna— Oh, see there? Oh, oh, oh, you're gonna tell me a story? Oh, you're gonna have some emotion behind it finally, right? You're just staying at like surface level, talking a good game, having high energy. Oh, imagine you have to get vulnerable and share something. Like, that's the thing. That's the only thing that matters. What is Drake teaching you about life that you're gonna listen to this album on repeat instead of like building something, right? I'm not judging. I think it's great, but like there's a reason for it. Tell me the reason. Not like, it's about community and like building people up, bro. You want to be a good storyteller? Tell me something. It—

I think it all ties back to—

no, no, you're back in your head, bro. They're like, go back to that.

It all ties back to when I was younger. I never thought I would have the friends that I have today, and I feel like I continue to put myself in that box when I was in grade 6. You're gonna lose them? Not just lose them, it's just— what is the truth? Yeah, they don't care about me.

Adam, it's the same thing of like why you cried after you helped all these people.

Yeah, I feel like it all comes back to like, what is a real connection? Like, what is a true friendship? Who are we actually growing with?

What does that make you feel about yourself? Like, I don't feel loved, I'm not enough. Yeah, well, that's more than— that's— that's like, if you're not gulping at it, then it's not a real story.

Yeah, that— but even still, so when I was studying the hero's journey, I promise it all the time, refuses to go.

No, because I just flat out refuse to go there.

Okay, it always ties back to like who—

you want to be a better storyteller, get out of your head and get in your heart. That's what you're missing. I don't give a Joseph Campbell's anything, bro. Who's that?

Joseph Campbell.

Who's Joseph Campbell?

Oh, is he the one that created Hero's Journey?

Apparently, bro. That's fine, forget that. Tell me something that you feel.

Yeah, you know what's funny? It's— I guess you— I never really— no, it's funny because like I never really unpack it.

And I know that's why you're not a great storyteller yet.

And you know, I, I truly do think it's because— what are you afraid of? It's not what I'm afraid of, it's what I'm lacking. I genuinely don't think I have enough people who pour into me the way I pour in the sense of—

who cares? Why does that matter to you? I could say the same thing. I have lots of people that I pour into and don't pour back. I pour into you, I get nothing back. I pour into people all the time.

I, I feel like it's more or less the, the justification of talking about stories and being vulnerable because I'm always the one asking.

It's funny because somebody doesn't ask you about you, how does that make you feel?

Not great. It— but not great is not— uh, sorry, if I'm gonna be honest— I'm not honest, but it's like— no, it's not.

No, no, you're being surface level.

Uh, a lack of care. Like, I genuinely feel like they don't care.

Yeah. And I know that they do. Yeah. Like, logically, you know they care. Yeah. Hopefully. I mean, some people might not, like, whatever, but logically they care. But, but they don't— they don't show their care the way— in the way that I want that I show for them, and it, and it makes me feel— oh my God, oh my God, we're starting to get somewhere.

Talking about Iceman, I feel like I'm so attached to it because I don't know if I— when I'm— I, I don't know if I have the friends that I feel like I need.

Yeah, that's tough. And like, how do I then get to the top if I don't have the right friends. How do I even find friends? I don't— it's like, I don't even know if I can find the new friends.

Yeah. And it's funny because like, I've been so on this whole community thing. I was like, oh, you got to find your people. I feel like that's why I resonated so well with everyone in the fitness industry, because our goals are so aligned. But even that is super surface level.

The thing you teach is the thing you lack the most still.

Absolutely.

Your purpose comes from your pain. I lack belief to do the next big thing. It's not like you're some guru on community. Like, you're— you're— that's why you're so pouring in other people, because you like wish that people poured into you. Oh gosh. What? You're right. But like, but you say that, like, how does that feel? It doesn't feel very good.

Yeah.

I, I pour so much in other people because I deep down just wish that other people poured into me too. And like, not everything has to be sad, right? Yeah, yeah. Like, obviously great moments will happen.

Yeah. But I just wish people— I just wish I— wow, I was just gonna— this was the craziest. I can't believe I stopped myself. I wish I had a story worth sharing. I feel like I wish I had a story people will— it was worth asking about.

And I know that's a weird way to look at it, and people around me think I have a crazy story compared to them. Yeah, but I know it's not enough. Yeah, even what we talked about before, like you're doing smaller stuff. You want to have a better story? Freaking play with the big people doing big things and you have a better story. But you're like saying no to that and then choosing to do the smaller stuff.

Your whole life is a Solomon's paradox. It's like I've literally said that, like, if you want to have a good story to tell, like, go out and do things.

Everybody's life is a Solomon's paradox. Yeah.

I need to have more belief. I need a better story to tell. Like, I, I mean, yeah, what do I— I don't do anything too hard, Evan. Like, I, I am comfortable.

I know, you're not even comfortable, you're scared.

Scared, a lack of courage.

That's welcome to being human, bro. Oh, imagine you tell me something about that. Like, that's storytelling. Tell me what you're excited by, tell me what you're overwhelmed by, tell me what you're scared by. Like, your father, awesome. Uh, you know, I don't see all your stuff, but I see like the happy baby stuff. How about also the insecurities? Like, you think you— oh, I'm just gonna be the greatest dad of all time out of the gate? Like, no, you like had doubts and sleepless nights and moments where like you wonder if you're going to be able to be a good dad or have a story with him. What if your son never talks about you? Right? Like, yeah, my dad, he's kind of a burnout, but you know, I'm going to go do some great stuff.

And it's funny, I feel like I tie— and you're like, you know what, those are stories I should be sharing because I do tie a lot of the fitness stuff that I'm doing right now to Zane. But that's the practice.

Okay, practice being— you're feeling something that's emotional. Practice, even if you don't share it with the world or Instagram, whatever, just, just practice it for yourself so you can watch it back and see what you look like when you're telling it emotionally. Because you just stay positive and fine, but then surface level, and then, okay, so there's no connection. I'm just charmed by your charisma a little bit, but I don't feel any emotion, and I definitely don't make a change in my life from hearing your stories.

Oh, I needed to hear that. You're right, because you're not telling me anything.

You're not emotional. You're surface-level covering. It's not fake, it's real, but it's whatever, it's blah. And so like, it's better than a doom scroll, but it—

but it's hardly relatable. You're right. Like, I do— great. Now I think about it, a lot of my videos do lack emotion. It, it lacks a lot of depth. It lacks the ability to make people feel. But you fight it.

Like, you actively fight it. Like, you don't want to share. Everybody like—

and then I expect others to Well, of course.

How do you expect people to care about you, important to you, when you never open up and share anything except in your darkest moments where then like you're crying and you like absolutely hit rock bottom? I have to call Dylan— Brayden. Brayden. Yeah, shout out Brayden.

Shout out Brayden.

To like pick you up off the mat. Yeah. If you said, you know what guys, like it would mean so much if you showed up on Saturday and like did something. You know the outpouring that people would do if you even like asked a little bit? Yeah, you'd be in tears of like joy and happiness. But you never ask. Everybody thinks you're good. Here's Justin, who's perfect and always happy and like has it all figured out. He doesn't need any help. He doesn't, because you don't share anything. You look like you're fine and happy, everything's great, and things are. And like, we're not just negative and unhappy all the time either, but there's nothing wrong with crying, and there's nothing wrong with being sad or being disappointed or being upset and sharing that. I've been on podcasts with people, they, oh, I'm like, they cry, like, oh, I'm really sorry. What are you sorry for? Like, it's great, it's like a human emotion. Like, what are we hiding? But especially for somebody who wants to be a great storyteller, like, the most important thing is emotion. Not Joseph Campbell's hero's journey, yada yada yada yada. Emotion, the most important thing. I mean, I guess you could disagree, but I'll—

No, I'm going to lean into that.

You're not taking me to a deep emotion, which doesn't always have to be negative, but even the positive ones, you're too polished in surface level and just trying to think, how do I help, instead of also like, what am I actually feeling?

How do I make them feel? Yeah. Yeah.

What's the Bruce Lee? Don't think, feel.

Feel. Bruce Lee. You like water? I don't know the reference.

You don't know the Bruce Lee, don't think, feel? No. Oh my gosh, that's crazy.

Clip it right here.

That's crazy. Yeah. Anyway, yeah, you're human. You feel like me. I feel again, I'm— I don't have a lot of these crises because I feel and I make adjustments as I feel. I'm not a super emotional person compared to others, but I still feel. But I can get emotional in storytelling. Yeah, something means something. It's like, why did I want to ask, uh, answer surface-level questions? Like, I'm— the same question asked differently, if I know it means something to you, I'm all in. If I know it doesn't mean anything to you, or like it barely— it's like, okay, whatever, we're here, bro. Great.

I don't even know what to ask after that one because I, I'm just kind of in awe of recognizing that I really do lack emotion.

No, you're actually deeply emotional. Like, the fact that you cared so much that you were worried that people don't even show up for you, that like that is in your mind, shows how like deeply you feel emotions. Yeah. You feel it. And I mean, I'm sure any of your friends would be like, bro, if I even knew this, I'd be like— Damn. They would be there. In spades for you. Like, if you ask for something, people would show up for you, but they just don't know.

Yeah, you say it all the time, give us— I mean, we, we have the hardest time asking for help, and I feel like that's, that's something I need to be doing, ask for more help.

Yeah, but like, in sharing the stories, people will also— if you just shared how you felt, people will reach out to you to offer help.

That's right.

You don't only have to share— like, even your positive ones are just okay. It's still surface level, right? Just like, "I just got out of—" it's like, okay, you're your usual— you have one zone, that's it. You play in one, you play the same song over and over, and it's like, it's not a happy song, it's like elevator music. You're like, it's good, you get in. Yeah, but you play just one song and you're pretty good at that song. You're really great at it, but you don't like go deeper on that song and you definitely don't play other songs. Yeah, but if you did, if you're like, hey, I'm, I'm struggling right now because of blank, or I just like, I woke up this morning and I felt blank. If you shared some of the things that you were feeling, you'll have people offer you support and show up for you when you like— you just have people outreach to say, hey, like, you want to go for a run this weekend?

It all ties back to Mastermind and like how grateful I am for like you for allowing me to be just a part of your community, a part of like, I mean, you just pouring into me. So it goes with— I feel like I don't say it enough, but Evan, seriously, thank you.

Yeah, you don't say that.

And it's not heartfelt enough. No, no. Because I mean, I know it's not real. I'm crying. It doesn't matter. I'm trying to hold it back, man. I hold it back.

Let's see something.

No. Evan, I, I talk about you often. You, you truly changed my life. And it's— this is one of those where if, if there's one, there's one piece of advice that everyone needs, it's you need to find your mentor, or not just someone that actually believes in you. And like, I, I—

wow, whoa, I don't know what he's holding back from. I don't know where that— but like, what are you even doing? I I don't even know what you're saying. It's fine because I don't want to— oh, but what's the wow who from what? What are you— why are we stopping? What are you saying?

And why are we—

you're about to say something emotional. I don't even know where you're going. And then like, oh, let me stop myself and censor instead of feeling something and sharing it.

It is such a blessing to find someone that believes in— like truly believes in— like, I don't know what you see in me, but like, I'm gonna borrow that belief and really be the best version of what I can— oh my gosh, I can't talk when I cry.

Look at that, he's saying something, guys. That's great.

Thank you, seriously, it, it means a lot. I mean, fine, for being vulnerable, like a lot of the story— no, because a lot of the stories that I don't share, yeah, is The lack of a father figure, the lack of anyone trying to actually push me. Like, I get a lot of love, I do. I don't have a lot of people showing me that there's more to this life, more to like what I can even believe. Uh, when I talk to people saying, oh, like, Justin, you're doing so great, they can only see so far. So it's super important to have people like you really lean into someone that can't see past his hand, right? Like, I— even like every time we talk, do I— like, I know I lack courage, but I'm also the type of guy that always say, oh, like, you got to be courageous, do hard things. Do I believe that? I don't know. And every time we say, oh, let's go do something, I don't think it's going to be good enough. And I know it all comes down— but then it feels like I'm going to be wasting my time. Maybe I should just do the comfortable thing. Uh, and it's funny because even coming into this, like, having a kid— not a good enough excuse. And that's why I haven't even brought it up. It's like, I chose to have him, but I'm not gonna— what, a good enough excuse to be like, oh, like, I'm not doing all these big drastic moves because of, say— Oh, for sure.

Yeah. And that's unfair. Yeah, I can blame your kid for you being— that's crazy. What kind of burden is that? That's gonna be your story because you didn't do your thing because you had a kid, bro. That's the truth.

But the truth is it's because I lack courage. I lack belief.

Fair enough. And like, again, like, it's not an extreme thing, right? It's like, it's not 100% yes or no. You lack courage, and you're also way more courageous than you were before. Yeah. 35 pounds overweight, you have more courage now than you did in 2020 or whatever, right? Okay, cool. And you need more to get to— it's like, it's just, that's just what the truth is. I don't have the courage to the next thing, but I'm not going to BS myself to think everything is fine. But I'm still like, don't go then into depression mode. Like, I, I'm still way better than I was before, and I still might be ahead of my social circle, whatever, and This is still the thing holding me back. Yeah.

And I mean, if the real and the raw of me just wants to— like, the messages and the lessons that I want to share is I didn't have— if I didn't have any of this, I wouldn't be where I am today. And I keep holding myself back and I don't know why.

Well, already, like, you've already made progress. Like, there's nothing wrong with being sad, right? Like, or if you have an identity crisis, nothing wrong with having an identity crisis.

That—

yeah, identity crisis is crazy because, I mean, then talk about it, right? I mean, I don't talk about things because I don't— like, I can't force an identity crisis.

Like, what's my— my question is like, what is my story? And you know what's funny? The amount of times I've asked that question so many times to multiple people, I don't think I'd, I'd be able to answer that question.

And it's all part of why you're asking it, but it's also a hard— it's a, it's a hard question.

You had a great— and not a cop-out— and you had a great answer. It's just like this, what story are we— is going to help you? But then I think about it, it's like, oh, what do I want to be known for? Like, I, I want to— I'm— I guess it goes back to ego, but It goes back to what is Justin's story? It's like, what does he want to accomplish? And I feel like it's just because I haven't done anything yet.

Does that make sense? Yes. And when you're pushed to do something, you're like, oh. Yeah.

You don't go for it. And like, yeah.

And fair enough, right? But it's like, hey, are we telling the truth, right? Because if you're telling the truth, then you're more likely to realize it. Oh, here it is again. Oh, somebody's calling me out. Great. It's better to know and be called out for it than to like not know and just live in delusion forever, right? So great, it's like, great, so you felt something. Now what's the change you're gonna make, right? What's, what's the shift? And it doesn't have to be a radical shift. Like, identity crisis can be a radical shift. Doesn't have to be radical, but like, okay, I'm going to start making these kinds of moves. Even, even here, like, instead of letting Yesung talk, you know, you took all this time, now you're doing this. But it wasn't even his time. It was your time to start with. And you didn't have anything. Yeah. Right? But now we filled it with something. And so, like, great. Whether this is used anywhere or not, whatever. But it's like, OK, what's the shift that then needs to make? And instead of, like, what's my story, you're thinking of it in a really negative way. Like, I don't have a good enough story, right? Which is fine. But it's like, what's the positive that can— be a valuable decision-making tool for you. What does an epic story look like for me? What is a story that I'm going to be proud of sharing with my son? Right? Like, what is— just take the same negative, like, oh, I'm not good enough, to what would be awesome? What would be awesome? Because it still leads to a better place than where you are now. Like, if you say— if you ran it through the filter of what would an epic story for me be? Even just do that. Like, what's an epic story? What changes? What do you— what would you have to do in the next month, 3 months to have something that's epic and be proud of at least your effort? Because the story doesn't have to be you won. It's like that you just even tried, you made yourself proud of. Because if you win something that was easy, it doesn't count, right? Like, go run against gerbils or something and you'll win. Like, who cares? Like, oh, I won. It doesn't matter. Like, you know, it doesn't matter.

You need to have stakes.

Even if you get That's why I was upset at your whole racing thing anyway, because you're going to— there's no emotion to it. You're going to do it. It doesn't matter. It's a stupid waste of time. And I'm especially hard because other people will praise you for it. Yeah. I'm like, this is stupid. Don't listen to that. You're better than that. So I'm aggressively hard on the other side because everybody— you need to counterbalance. But if you go for something and it doesn't work, but you put your best into it, you could still be proud of it. Whether you win or not, it's like, I tried. My hardest at this thing. Like, the most proud I've been— here's a story, right? Trying to illustrate a story that helps in a certain situation, right? When I was on my tour and I broke my neck, right, and I got back up and we did the Kansas City stop. And I told you this, right? We're like, we canceled on them, but we've— we refunded everybody's money. I didn't tell you this briefly, probably. Like, we, we canceled Denver.

Okay.

Because I was, I was in the hospital. Like, I can't do it. Our next stop was Kansas City, but I couldn't go for 4 hours because I knew— I mean, I was supposed to do it at all, but we had already paid for the hotel, for the venue and everything. We messaged everybody who was supposed to come to Kansas City and said, I, I have a concussion. Like, you can go watch me on Instagram, broke my neck, yada yada. Uh, I'm going to refund everybody who paid a ticket and just eat the loss on the venue, but I'm still going to show up and I'll go for as long as I can. I can't do 4 hours and I'm just gonna be sitting there with a broken neck and a concussion, but I'll do my best for whoever wants to show up. Because for me, like, the serving is healing the community. Like, that better for me to be there than to be lying on the bed at home. That's right. For me. Like, that's healing for me. But I knew I wasn't going to go as long as I normally would go. And so I also didn't want to disappoint people. And Nina was going to be the judge of when, because I won't know. Like, I'll just go until I collapse. I wouldn't know. And then, ooh, and just fall, right? That's what happened. And then I have another concussion and break my neck again, right? So Nina was watching me. And I knew their tell was going to be my lips when they were dry, and she was going to pull me off. Licking my lips to— so I ended up going for— I should have been done by an hour, but I ended up being able to squeeze an extra half hour out of it, right? So I got an hour and a half, and then Nina's like, okay, we're done. And I've never had to be pulled off a stage. Like, I was done. It was my most— like, I was— I couldn't give anything more. I've never had that where I couldn't give anything more. Rather, like, I was so proud of that speech because I showed up. I mean, it ended up being people were like inspired, like, oh, you're showing up and doing this with a broken neck and a concussion. And like, I was tired this morning and I couldn't do a video. Like, it made their excuses seem— I wasn't even thinking that though. It was more for me. I wanted to serve and help. And that was the most— I could not give anything more. And I should have been pulled off half an hour earlier, right?. And that probably was my worst speech of the entire tour, the least coherent. I mean, I don't remember what happened. I'm sure it's on video somewhere, but I felt the best about it because it pushed me to my max, and I tried my hardest. Like, I couldn't try any harder. That and the last one, like, we finished in— like, we continued the tour, and in Cleveland was our last stop. And when we finished Cleveland, we're done. There's 90 days. 23 cities, a crazy— we got robbed, we got like all of, all of the crazy that happened on that tour. At the end of Cleveland, we're done, clap, clap, clap, cool. I just lay on the ground for like 2 hours on the hotel floor in the venue, and like people are coming up, it's like taking pictures or whatever. I'm like on the ground, I was done, completely done. I was like so proud of my worst speeches because of the effort, right? That's right. So it's like, you want a story that— that's what— that's the story I'm telling right now. Like, that's the story. Not the perfect speeches, not the— all of the stops. I talk about like the most difficult moments where I did not win. I just was proud of the effort I put in. So if you want to be proud of your story, forget about like even your son or, Brandon? Brayden. Brayden. I don't know why I keep forgetting his name. Maybe it's just that we get more shoutouts for him. That's probably why. Give him some extra love. Forget about them or Nina or whatever. It's for you to be proud of— you're not proud of yourself for not doing these things. And fair enough. So go for it. And even if you don't win, whatever winning even looks like, you tried. And you didn't know what else to do, and it was your absolute max. But you're not testing yourself to do more difficult things. And it's easy for like running and whatever because you don't care. Like, it's fine, whatever. You win the race, you don't win the race, you finish it, you have a personal best, yada yada yada. It doesn't matter, right? But like, identity crisis, story is a thing. What if you suck at telling a story? Oh my God, what do I do? Who am I? Or if I can make a video for Evan Carmichael and it completely tanks, oh my God, like maybe I suck and I can never be good at this. Yeah, it's not true, but like, it's still the, the thought, the voice.

And it's one of those where, if I'm being honest, I know, I, I know I'm not a great storyteller. And one of the steps that I know I need to make is it's that emotion. It's that it doesn't always have to be negative, like you said. The— I genuinely need to find— a good story is like a roller coaster.

Yeah, but what do you—

what are you gonna go for? Yeah, that's a great— I got to sit down and—

No, but you think about it. If you wanted to make yourself proud of your own story this month— it's the start of the month, right? What would you do differently?

I think I would really need to sit down and figure out what I— I don't know. I mean—

What comes to mind? Whatever. What would you do differently?

It came back to what would I do differently?

Yeah, this month, we have to burn everything down. And like, you know what I would do?

I would find a story that I would want to tell and actually—

okay, so whose story do you want to tell?

If I were to script and create a documentary— not documentary, whatever, video, uh, this month, it would, it would have to be on like being able to ask for help. Okay, great. So do that. And what that looks like, and like having the courage to ask for help and recognizing that it's—

okay, so whose help do you need to ask for?

Whose help? Yeah. Well, there's you. Okay, great. Um, I would have to find—

you know what, I want you to do— here, here, I got an idea for you. Co-creating that. Let's see, what, you know, any AA? Yeah, I don't know a lot about AA, but part of the steps, the hardest step typically is like you have to go make amends with all the people that you have wronged. Yeah, it's like you're an alcoholic and you've like hurt people. Yeah. And you have to go and basically make amends whether they forgive you or not. Like a lot of times it's not a happy ending. Yeah, they don't even want to talk to you because you've screwed them up, but you have to go Regardless of the results, right? So, if you make a list of 7 people that you should be asking for help for, and then why, and then go ask for help. I'm doing it. Yeah. Yeah. But not just like business, whatever. No, just life. Life, yeah. Who are the friends who didn't show up for you 'cause you never told them to show up for you?

I have the list in my head. I know who.

That's the video.

That's the story.

That's the story. 7 people. Talk about the person, why they mean something to you, why you've never reached out and asked for help, what's the help you need. Just tell them. Tell them, like, I've never asked you for help. And I know I should have because I need— and they're going to love you. I hope somebody says I hate you. That'd be great. All this love fest. You need a little bit of controversy in there, but maybe not. That's your June assignment.

That is my June assignment.

Yeah. And that'll be one you're proud of. Like, those are difficult conversations. They're difficult in a loving way, right? Yeah. Like, I'm sure your 7 people are going to be like, what do you need to ask Nina for help with that you don't ask for Braden? Braden? Yeah. Yesung, other friends, whatever. But don't be strategic about it. Like, oh, this is going to be good content. Or like, Who are the people actually in your heart who you know you should have asked for help for and like didn't? And then go ask for help. Thank you. Let's go. June, make it happen. Dude, if you don't do it, I'm like, I'm not—

No, if you don't do it, if I don't do it, I actually just stop talking.

If you don't do it, I'm so done with you, bro. I need 3 years of therapy to get over this. I mean, I'm not done with you for life, but I'm like, I need a 3-year break. From you and, and the trauma if you don't do this. I get my hopes up. This is something— this has to be it, dude.

Dude, my heart's racing. That's something I'm, I'm, I'm excited for.

Who are the 7 people? You have to say it right now.

Uh, there's Nina, there's Brayden, there's Brian. Okay. There's Dante, there's Dan. Dan. Uh, there is— that's 5. That's 5. 2 more. Oh my gosh, two is crazy. I have so many people in my head. Good.

Well, two. I pick your two. Who comes to— who comes to mind right now? I need this on tape because these, these 7 people better be in the freaking video. Yeah, they will be. Dude, I'm done. Uh-huh. Two more. I don't remember the 5, but it's on tape. Yeah, I need a copy of this. Uh-huh. Two more in your heart. Who, who are the two most important people left that you need to ask help for? It doesn't have to be me too, by the way.

Like, no, but you were gonna be number 7 because that was easy. The 6th one is hard.

But don't make it easy. Pick somebody else. I don't care. I've already helped you here. This is help. I don't need another— have the conversation. What are you gonna tell me? Don't think too long because now I'm thinking about my community.

I'm like, oh my gosh. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

You realize how much you suck and you haven't been asking for help. It's great. But you'll, you'll be a new man after this.

Yeah, you know what, I think it would be my friend Rebecca.

Rebecca, okay. Who are you crying about on your race day that they didn't show up for you? Who you worried about?

Oh, they did. You know what, that's true. Uh, and probably my buddy PJ.

PJ, yeah, done. Those 7 people, dude, they better be in that video. Yeah, they can't deviate. Those are the 7 people. You can, you can talk to more people after and whatever and apologize and like have a love fest, but those 7 people better be in the video. I swear I'm gonna need a 3-year break from you if you don't do this. I swear, I swear. I knew I will have emotional trauma. I need a therapist. If you do not, you're gonna, you're gonna hire my therapist if you don't do this, and they're gonna be an expensive one. Yeah.

Evan, thank you so much for this. Yes. I went into the— it's so funny because you like— it's so funny how like I wanted to go into this thing, you know, like how can I make Evan content? And it will always tie back to the best content is the content that helps me because that's the message. I mean, in the sense of like—

well, then that's for sure. Like, but like, what in your— I would see your job when working with me or, or somebody else is like, how do you take their soul and the thing that you care about that you see in them and turn it into video? Because you can capture that in a lot of different ways and a lot of different formats. It's not about like the mood lighting and whatever else. Like, that's all fine and good, but What does this person do that is interesting to you? And that's the only filter. Like, I'm so curious, how do you blank? And that, that will depend on your stage in life of where you're at right now and what you care about. And then asset and document— I'm going to be believe in anything that I do, right? Yeah. So if I'm talking about the skateboard or the sign or fatherhood or whatever, like, it doesn't matter, it'll still lead. I can't help but not be believe me and believe, right? That's where it'll end up. So I don't care what the story is, but I care that the story matters to you. So if you're going to help me with my Instagram content or whatever, like, that's the job. You see something great in me, cool, I thank you. You said amazing words. How do, how do you capture that and spread it with the world? Because whatever you see in me whatever I've given you, I'm not thinking about content. I'm just like, how do I help Justin? How do you take that and turn it into something that then the world can use? Because that's helpful to me, and it's helpful to— it's in service to people. But it's not like, what does somebody need to know about the Evan Carmichael Mastermind that they should join? It's like, I don't know, bro. What kind of question is that?

Yeah, because I mean, the whole theme of the Mastermind was more or less like, put yourself in the right— find yourself in the right rooms.

That might be a great question. You just didn't really care about it. That's the problem. Like, you don't not care. You're not asking like— you just don't care about it. It's like, I don't care about—

about being in the right rooms.

No, no, you care about that.

But like, oh, the master—

why should somebody join the Evan Carmichael? You were flipping between like scripted questions and like actual questions, and I'm trying my best to just go with you on whatever, but you can tell the difference. Yeah. Versus like, don't do the scripted questions. That's why, like, you have 10 questions that, like, you actually deeply want to know the answer to. Like, what do I do that you're curious about, or that you wish you knew more? It could be anything. And then that's what gets filmed and turned into something. The same thing for any of your clients. Like, you love that— you go to your real estate woman, what do you love about her?

It's not even love. I'm upset that she has so many great lessons, great stories. She was telling me about her kids.

Well, like, what? No, but, like, what inspires you about her? What are you curious about with her?

I was curious why it's not out, like why her brand isn't out, like her stories aren't out there. Like the content she's making right now is— I mean, oh, she'll— I'm not gonna air it. Well, maybe, whatever, whatever, cut it out, I don't care.

Again, I hope for you, but like what— we don't— we didn't say who it is, whatever. Like there's something about her.

Yep.

Like you have a gift to see the positive in everyone. Yeah. So of her, what do you respect? What are you curious about? What do you want to emulate? What do you love about how she shows up that you've kind of seen a taste of, but you want to know more of?

The 3 of her kids were practically dying, and they went to every— this was a few years ago— went to SickKids, went to the best doctors.

But what don't you know about that story that you're curious about?

Her emotion, like how she dealt, because I don't know what it's like to— I mean, I will make the argument, like, Zayn has been in and out of the hospital.

Fair enough. But like, that's like— and you're asking that more now because you're also a dad and you have a sick kid. And so like, that, that's now— oh, imagine why I'm asking these questions about your sick kids.

Then she was talking about, um, how she found— she was basically an atheist, found her way back to God because of the miracle of her kids getting better.

Okay, but what do you want to know more about?

Like how she went through it.

Like, oh, that's still the same story, the same kids.

Yeah, because she's also— at the same time, she's running 3 Broke—

like, she's Yeah, but so then that, that's like, if anything, like summarize the story. Yeah, this is what I did. Like, so I had Matthew McConaughey on, right? Okay. And he's a great storyteller. Oh yeah. Before I had him on, I watched him on Tom Bilyeu and Lewis Howes and another channel. They were asking different questions, but he kept telling the same story. So we tell this story about him like wrestling this guy in an African tribe. And he told the story, almost the same story verbatim on every episode that he went on. Right. Rightly or wrongly, I was curious about his— some of his takeaways from that. And I knew that if I just asked the usual questions, he would go to that story, and now I've lost 7 minutes. Yeah. I'll be able to ask what I wanted to ask. So I summarized his story in 30 seconds and then asked the question I wanted to ask. Oh, that's like when you went to Africa and then you wrestled that guy as a tribe leader, and then you did this and that and this. What? Right, because that's what I— that's the question I want to ask. So with, with the realist, you know, you're your client, whatever. It's like, okay, so like your kids were in and out of the hospital. They dealt with this and dealt with this and dealt with this, yada yada. How did, how did you deal with it? You're running a business, 3 brokerages. Like, how do you even manage that? Because then you get to the question, because she's going to tell her story. Yeah, but you've already heard it. Yeah. So you're not as into it. Yeah. She's going to know you're not as into it. Yeah. It's going to ruin the whole vibe of the whole thing. And then you're 10 minutes in and then you get to ask your question. You're probably going to throw away most of the early stuff anyway. If you keep it, it's not going to be great. It's not yet. And it's not great because you're not into it. And so like you're impacting your guests. Yeah. So like shortcut it and then ask the question. All I care about is like what you care about. That's right. And so you care about how she handled it being a new mom with all these because you're a new dad with all these struggles. Makes sense. Cool. Now if you like put on your entrepreneur hat, what impresses you about her? What would you want to learn more? What about her business do you respect and like and wish you had answers to?

I guess it all comes down to— I mean, selfishly for me, it's like I'm more interested in what she has to say. Like, we just met, so there's still so like— Awesome.

But what about her do you find curious? Interesting, exciting.

I guess why she's so rooted in Keller Williams, like, what is the— what is it about the brand that like makes you stick with— like, who— how does it fit who you are as a person?

So like, that is a very like— dangerous is the wrong word, but if you're not— if you don't ask that question the right way, you get a crap answer. Oh yeah, this is a corporate question, I guess. That doesn't seem like a very interesting question. Like, tell me about Keller Williams and like why it's so great, is the most boring question of all time, right? Like, it's actually omega boring, right? Like, tilt-worthy boring question. But if you actually care about it and you ask like a deep— then it'll be a different answer because she has a, she has a standard answer to that. Yeah, probably. But if you, but if you ask it and you're genuinely curious and then whatever the— like, you have to actually care about— that's hard. But if it's actually coming from that place as opposed to like, oh, I need strategic content to talk about why Keller Williams, whatever.

Yeah, my biggest thing is like, how is she— why is she so married to the brand? And like, do you actually think that when realtors come into this brokerage, they're actually— like, why do you care so much about realtors making more money and freedom? Like, do you actually care? Like, where's the love? And like, do you do it for the love of the game? Do you do it for Like, also, like, what do you want to be known for? That— I've— I'm just so curious.

For a lot of people, it's like, you have your general questions that wouldn't always work. It's like, what do you want to be known for? What's the impact you want to have? Why do you do what you do? Yada yada yada.

Know those questions first before— it's hard to go deep.

But only until you— no, it's not. It's like, you only ask those questions you have nothing to go off of. Yeah, but you know something, like, you're too good to not have something to share. Like, the first thing I told Matthew— I don't know if you watched the beginning of that interview— the first thing I told him was, "You're like a modern-day Texan Bruce Lee." And he's like, "A modern-day Texan Bruce Lee? I like that," with his— I can't do his accent, it's great. But If you look, I don't know anything about him. I didn't even know how to pronounce his name. Because McConaughey, McConaughey, right? McConaughey. He's very athletic. Yep. Which I didn't know. I knew nothing. He's an actor. I know nothing about this man. Zero. Like if you give me Les Brown or Tony Robbins or whoever, like— Easier. I know their stuff. I can, I have stories. Matthew, I know nothing. I'm gonna, what I'm gonna say like, oh, I saw you in this movie and it was great. Like it's a stupid question. I know, but I don't know anything about the man prior to the interview. Yeah. So I researched, but he's very athletic. He was very into personal development. Yep. And he's a philosopher. It's like he has— he's very rooted in philosophy, and he's from Texas. So he does it in his own Texan way. So I thought he's like the Bruce Lee of the martial arts with the philosophy. But Matthew, like modern day, and from Texan. Yep. So like modern day Texan Bruce Lee, that's what, that's what I think. Yeah. And so I said, I, I might call you Sensei McConaughey. And I don't know him, like, does he like, does he hate Bruce Lee? Does he take that as a compliment? Is it an insult? I don't know. It's like a risk. I don't know this man from anything, and we're making public content, like, who knows. Now it's not— hopefully the intent was not insulting. Yeah. But there's a chance that he doesn't like it. And I could ask a safe question, why'd you write this book? You know, what is it? What's your story? We'll be 20 minutes in, and then the interview's over, and I got nothing. But like, I'm curious about this. And then I asked him about like, he was tired of doing rom-coms, and he, uh, he was always like taking off his shirt and being like the hunk. Yeah, exactly right. He's like, I'm done, I don't want to do that. And, and he told this story so many— he told the story on everybody's show, right? It's like, I don't want to talk about the same story, I already know the story, so now I have to like fake being it. But I want the second question. So I shortcutted that story too. Um, and not out of disrespect, is that out of like respect to like get his deeper wisdom here. He quit acting for like a year and a half.

Okay, I didn't know that.

Because all he was getting was rom-coms. He wanted a serious thing, and they paid him up to like $40 million. Like $40 million, come and do it. He's like, no. He turned down huge paychecks, and he's like, I might be done acting. I'm gonna be done. I'm not I'm only getting these rom-com roles and like I don't want to do it anymore, so I might be done. He tells a story about him, like he had 4 career options of backup plans. One was a tour guide, one was a, uh, like a band teacher, one was a football coach, and one was something else. Okay. And the thing that goes through my mind is like, those are all like teachers. Oh. Like a music teacher is a teacher. A football coach is like you're teaching. Yeah. A tour guide is like you're teaching and helping. And now he just wrote this book. Like, are you a teacher? Like, they all, they all revolve around teaching. Did you think about that? How does that— that's what I was curious about. So a shortcut is like when you— because I don't need to hear him say that same 7-minute story that's already told everywhere else. That's right. So when you quit about— when you quit acting and you had this year and a half off, you thought about blah blah blah blah blah blah. I say it in 30 seconds out of 7 minutes. It's like, do you— are you actually just like a teacher? And then he's like, thought about it, and then he shared an answer. And then the very last thing— we moved on to other stuff— the last thing he said to me before we hung up was, and that like, that teacher thing, I'm gonna think about it, right? It's like, let's go! But I was so nervous for that interview because I don't know anything about him. That's right. It's like the hardest one to do. You're going in and meeting this woman for the first time, or whoever. You can look at her Instagram, look at her website, look at her story. Like, there's got to be something in there that you can already pull from to ask a better question than, so why do you do what you do? And why Keller Williams? And tell me about yourself, or what's your story?

And yeah, no, you're right, absolutely.

But there's no right answer. Like, I was curious about that. Nobody asked him about the teacher thing, But it's not that that's the right question. It's just the right question for me to ask him and made him think a little bit, right? Which is a better conversation than him just doing his thing and telling his stories. And he's a great storyteller, but it's the same content as everywhere else. What I fall back into is like, I might ask the wrong question. I might offend him with Sensei McConaughey, but the intention is good. And I can always, if he's upset, I can probably make it up and fall back. But I'd rather take the risk and ask the question that I actually want to ask than be scared and ask the boring safe questions that everybody else asks. Right? So what do you find interesting about it? So instead of just like, why are you not posting more content? Or like, why is your story not out there? OK. But that's what you're here to do. So let's talk about— let's ask real questions. Yeah. What do you— and anything is a real question. Just whatever you're actually drawn to, you'll pull out. The best in them. So whether it's family, because she had 3 kids who were sick and all that, or whether it's business, like how does she manage 3 different locations? Like there's no— like again, all those questions can be boring questions.

Yeah. She moved from— she was originally from Canada. Her and her husband got married out in the Swiss, in Zurich, Switzerland. And then she came back to run this business. I was like, man, is this— like, that's— I was curious about that, actually. Why would you do that?

Yeah, yeah, like the same question asked with different intent leads to way different outcomes. It's like, what's so special about working here? It's a boring-ass stupid question. It's going to be on like— for most people, that's it.

But if you actually like, what do you love about Switzerland?

Yes, like, what, why would you leave Switzerland to do this and be a real estate agent in And then you get a better answer.

That's right.

Than the typical boring corporate, like, junk that they're mostly making. Yeah.

And I feel like that's why it's so important to put in the reps. I mean, obviously, it's—

But it's trusting your intuition, like doing a little bit of research on the person to know, just to find— so I got a challenge with an Australian psychologist. Who is a friend and content creator, and we had a show together for a couple months. And one thing I told her was I stress out a lot on interviews in preparation for them, because I want it to be as good as possible. I don't want to let them down. I'm afraid of letting them down, letting my audience down, it being a boring interview, which always means that it's not. Like, I put in so much effort that then it's not. And the assignment that she gave me was, um, just trust, trust that you can pull on the strings, like find the angle. So with Matthew, it— I don't need to prep for 3 weeks for the Matthew one. Watch the videos, find what your angle is going to be. So like the teacher angle, Sensei Makana, find that and then trust that you'll last, stay on those topics and pull the thread. And then stop doing an obsessive amount of work on them, right? So like, find something that you really like about this person. Hopefully, like, you like the person. It's not just a paycheck. Like, there's something about them. And the good thing of you is you can always find something that you like, kind of like, hopefully, about them that's interesting. You can still ask them, what's your story and legacy, yada yada, but like a little bit of research, you could probably find something. Yeah. That you can talk to that you're more connected to. Because when you ask, what's your story? You watch your What's Your Story videos. You're not that into it, bro. You're like, so what's your story? You're just happy, Justin, whatever they say, something you edited. Yeah, whatever. When I'm doing this, telling a story and you're like naturally just bouncing your head as well, like, watch. That's what I want. So if you know a little bit about the client and then you're walking in, you're asking that question, one, it's like, how did you even know this about me? Yeah. Yeah. And then two, it's like your, your bouncing will get them bouncing. Like it's in the energy and the question that you're asking already makes them show up differently. That's right. But you have to find something that you like about the person that may not be what they expect coming in. And you can always fall back to the safe, safe stuff and you can always give them what they want and whatever. But honestly, if a client is only wanting that boring stuff and like avoids your questions or like, I don't want to talk about that, and it's like they're not a fit for what you exactly should be creating long-term anyway. But like, don't take the yes away from them because a lot of people would go with you that most people have no idea what they're doing. They're showing up, they're waiting for you to ask some questions. Ask better questions, you'll get better answers. That's right. But what's a better question? The one that you care the most about. Like, that's it. If you don't have an emotional connection to the question, don't answer it. Like, don't ask it. You don't have emotional connection to the story you're telling, don't tell it. That's how you become a better storyteller and a better extractor of stories from people.

Love it.

Yeah, there you go. To learn how one of our clients went from 20,000 views to 4.5 million, check the video right there next to me. I think you'll love it. Continue to believe, and I'll see you there. I've been working with Maury for, I'd say, about 25 years.

Maury, before starting the talk show and becoming a host, was a hardcore news journalist. He was at the fall of the Berlin Wall and