In this conversational clip, Scott, Floris Gierman, and Don discuss the transformative insights they gained from James Clear’s Atomic Habits and how those ideas reshaped their approach to trail running and life. The core of the discussion centers on the concept of identity: Scott recounts how he once didn’t see himself as a runner despite completing Western States, but after internalizing the book’s message that identity precedes behavior, he began to label himself a runner, which automatically drove daily running habits. Floris expands on this by sharing the story of Kate Martini Freeman, a marathoner who only began to view herself as a Boston‑qualifier after visualizing the goal, eventually achieving it. The group also highlights the power of tiny, achievable habits—starting with just putting on shoes and running for five minutes—to build momentum and reinforce identity. Don adds a practical illustration of accountability, describing how he and Scott thank each other early in a run, which reinforces commitment and gratitude. Throughout, the speakers emphasize that the identity‑habit loop applies beyond running to any role—parent, friend, hard‑worker—creating a virtuous cycle of self‑reinforcement.
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One of the biggest ahas of my life, not just trail running, is we did multiple episodes on Atomic Habits, James Clear's Atomic Habits.
Love that book. Yes.
And one of the things that changed my life is the whole thing about identity. Now, Flores, if I was to meet you in a grocery store and you're over in the produce section, and I saw you, I'd go, boy, he looks like a runner. If you saw me in the produce section, first of all, you wouldn't find me in the produce section.
Well, maybe you would.
And you saw me, you would think, boy, that guy probably needs to hit the gym a little bit and maybe try to go out and do a walk around the block a few times. My body is not a runner's body. And for years, even after running Western States, I did not think I was a runner. I didn't picture myself. I didn't identify as a runner, and I felt like an imposter. And, and maybe this helps some of the people that are listening to this. Um, after reading that book and, and internalizing that, um, that principle, I thought, you know what, I don't need to look like a runner to identify as a runner. I am a runner, and that changed a lot of things in my life because once I identified myself as a runner, what do runners do? They wake up in the morning and they go for a run, or they finish their day and they go for a run. And because they did their daily run, then their identity is reinforced. And it's this circle. And regardless of whether it's running, if you identify as a good dad or a good mom or a good brother or a good friend or a hard worker, I'm a hard worker. Once you identify yourself as that, your actions are going to follow that identity and reinforce the identity. It's just this circle that's just going to make you just a better, better person.
So well said right there. Yeah, it really is how you see yourself and the talk you do to yourself as well can really impact the outcome there. And even Jimmy Dean just mentioned an example of his wife, Kate Martini Freeman, was a 5-hour marathoner who didn't see herself really as becoming a faster runner until she went to the Boston Marathon. And she got excited about seeing it, and she started to identify herself with it and started taking small steps closer and closer again. And eventually, after trying hard, like seeing herself more and more as, I'm gonna run the Boston Marathon, she was able to qualify it over enough time. But it was a switch in our mind that ended up needing to happen before her, like, seeing herself that way. So the other, the other takeaway from James Clear's book to me that stands out is he talks about small habits and making some of these daily tasks really small and achievable. And instead of putting this barrier of like, I have to go run for an hour today, go put yourself a barrier of all I need to do is put on my shoes, put on my outfit, go out the door for 5 minutes and start like 5 minutes is all I need to do. Because once you're at that 5-minute point, you feel great, you wanna keep going and you get that continuous momentum and like that part just start to identify more and more with these small wins over enough time there.
Well, I'm just gonna tag along there and say it would seem like, so Scott and I run together and we run together often and have for a lot of years. And so I can speak to this from just experience. Quite often, we thank each other. Hey, thanks for having me out here today. Thanks for being out here today. But when do we say it? Do we say— and I'll ask you, Scott. Do we say it at 5 minutes at the end of the race, at the end of the run? Or do we say it 5 minutes into the run? We just start. We're 5 minutes from the car. That's when we deliver the, hey, thanks for getting me out here today. I really am happy to be here. We never say it at the end when we've completed it. It's always at the beginning.
Well, and I will say it's not right at the beginning as we're starting because I have a lot of thoughts and they're not very good thoughts sometimes at the very beginning of the run. But once we get your— you get your heart rate up and your sweat going a little bit, that's when we say, hey, you know what? I wasn't going to run today and I wasn't really excited to be out here, but because you were out here, I got— thank you for getting me out here.
Yeah.
Yeah.
That accountability.
Partner goes a very long way there. Thanks for watching. If you enjoyed that clip with Scott and Don from Trail Runner Nation, make sure to click here to watch the full episode. Um, you can also find the link in the description below, and make sure to subscribe while you're at it.
