Kipchoge's Advice to Race Faster, For Non-Elites | The Last Milestone

Start training and finish. Enjoy. When you are running, please enjoy. Just run and finish. And all in all, month after month, day after day, week after week, you will improve. One tip actually to improve running is to walk your talk. It's to be consistent in training and dedicate yourself fully. Improvement actually goes hand in hand with dedication.

Welcome to a special mini episode of The Extra Miles Show with the greatest marathoner of all time, Eliud Kipchoge. He's been a huge inspiration to me for many years. Eliud is the current marathon world record holder, 2-time gold Olympic medalist, and the only person to ever break the 2-hour barrier in the marathon. Recently, I had a chance to sit down with him for a 15-minute Zoom interview, and I had this many questions prepared for him, yet this much time available to to him. The good thing is, 2 days after this Zoom call, I had an opportunity to join my friend Lewis for coffee with Elliot in Eugene, Oregon, and this was around the Pre-Classic event. This didn't feel rushed at all. We had a conversation for about 40 minutes, and I had an opportunity to ask many more questions. Although the time we spoke in person was not a recorded interview, at the end of this video, I'll share several additional takeaways and lessons learned from this in-person meeting. At the end of our conversation, we were joined by Sifan Hassan, who came fresh off her 3 Olympic medals in Tokyo. Here are a few photos that I shot. We talked about marathon running. It was pretty surreal, actually. Some more updates at the end of this video. Eliud really has accomplished everything in running, yet he's so humble and down to earth, and that's what I really like about him. He's an inspiration to many people around the world with his mindset that no human is limited. Without further ado, I hope you enjoy my conversation with Eliud Kipchoge.

Eliud, welcome to the Extra Mileage Show. I want to start out by asking, how are you doing? How are your legs recovered from running the Olympic marathon just 11 days ago and winning the gold medal right there?

Uh, I'm doing well. I'm happy and I'm recovering well. I'm in the process of recovering, but all in all, it's not so my legs and my body are actually in good condition. No pain at all. I think I'm in the right direction as far as recovery is concerned. So I'm happy and enjoying the medal from Tokyo.

Nice. Yeah, I can imagine. It's, it's so funny to me because I see some athletes and they finish a marathon and they cannot walk for about a week. And you finished the race over there and it just looks like you can do it all over again. Even after you finished a sub-2-hour marathon, it looks like you could walk right away over there. So that was Great to see. Um, I want to say thank you so much for speaking with me today. Um, on our podcast, the YouTube channel, we are often focused on how runners can improve their running and become a stronger, healthier, and happier athlete.

But in this conversation, I really want to talk about 3 main topics.

That is your training and your racing in particular for your sub-2-hour marathon, your upcoming movie with Universal Pictures for The Last Milestone. And also in closing, some advice to everyday runners looking to improve. Does that sound okay to you?

It's okay.

Great. There's a lot of different ways to train with running intensity and with paces. What are your thoughts on heart rate training? Do you train with heart rate or do you, do you use other methods to decide on your training intensity?

I train with heart rate. So But I have an Artrade which I put on my hand. Oh, wow.

You use the Coros as well, right?

Absolutely. Yes.

Yeah.

Nice. Nice.

I ran with your new Coros watch this morning for the very first time.

Great.

And it's a, it's a very nice watch.

So I use Artrade and I have luckily people who can help me to really read the data as far as actually in the computer and in my phone and explain more on how the training was for the whole week, for the whole month, and see how the shape is and how the body is actually reacting towards the high standards of training.

Yeah, that's really, really good to know. In 2017, You tried to run your very first sub-2-hour marathon and you tried to break that. And at that point it didn't really go according to plan. Uh, you were so close yet 25 seconds was, was the difference there. Then fast forward now, 2 years later, 2 and a half years later, all of a sudden you decided to go at this again. What was the difference between the first race and the second race? What was the difference in approach?

Between the first attempt to break a 2-hour barrier and the second attempt to break a 2-hour barrier is really two different attempts. The first attempt actually is that me and the whole team, we did not know what will happen. We were daring actually to run under 2 hours. I was daring to run under 2 hours. I was thinking, I dare to think and they have to try to run under the tours. That's what I was saying, I was like a boxer going to the ring in 2017 without knowing whether I will win by actually points or by knockout or I'll be knocked out. I missed actually by 25 seconds, but I consider that it was the real successful event ever because I was the first human being to dare to try to run under 2 hours. But all in all, we transfer the huge experience from Monza to, to Vienna, and we used that experience to, to really, uh, what it— what has been missing. And, and, and that's why we achieved the run under 2 hours. So running in 2017 was critically important to try and even miss it. But after that, then we learn more on why we miss it. We learn more on knowing that you can still push because, you know, many people are saying that maybe anything might happen after running even 2 hours flat. But after performing and running and feeling comfortable, then personally I transfer my thinking to 2019 and the whole team transfer a huge experience that they know as far as organization is concerned, the year 2019. And that's why we achieved as a team in Vienna.

So that was, that was the difference? It was the difference between—

Yes.

Coming together more as a team, believing that it was possible? Was that, that one of the differences?

That was one of the difference, because in 2017 we did, we are actually blank. That's why I always say I was like a boxer going to the ring, not knowing whether I will be knocked out or it will be technical knockout or I will win the race. So, but after actually achieving the 2 hours and 25 seconds in Monza, then I go back and sit and say, hey, so I can, I can still push for this 25 seconds to come down. And the whole team actually had to go back again see their data, see what they have been doing, how they have been organizing the whole event. And after 2 years down the line, we transferred the whole experience, the whole experience, and had more experience in Vienna. And that's why we were really successful.

That's really, really incredible. What I find quite fascinating is there's a lot of people who want to finish running a marathon, and they run a 5-hour marathon. Some people run it sub-4 hours, some run it sub- 3, you're the only person in the running club of sub-2-hour marathon. And that's an incredible accomplishment. And just to put that in perspective, a 4:34 minute per mile or a 2:50 minute per kilometer. And this is really something that people thought was impossible to accomplish. And I'm curious to see what is your why, like, why is it that you really wanted to break that sub-2-hour barrier?

And what did you do to set yourself up for success?

Thank you very much, I want to actually appreciate your question. I want to tell you that, everybody in this world actually has a call. And if you have a call, like the way I had a call to run under 2 hours, then running under 2 hours actually is the real call. But do you have, I ask myself and I ask everybody, do you have the systems which can assist you, to break that goal. I'll give you an example. Personally, I had a system, and the system is the right teammates, the right coaches, the right management, the right sponsors. All sorts of actually the help around me was really great, and that's what actually uplifted my, my real training. And above all, being consistent, being actually, uh, defining faith the way I understand, believing that I will do it, and actually not missing training, but actually working 80% of my trainings, hitting the ideal trainings, ideal times, and making sure that I finish the trainings when I still have a lot of energy to smile and go and recover very fast for the next day. So the real difference is what I was doing behind the scenes. And I can say the training and actually setting the mind, having a peace of mind, is what actually gave me more chance to try another 2 hours.

Yeah, I can imagine. It was incredibly inspiring to see everyone in the world coming together to cheer you on for the big day and 500 million people watching this event live. And I thought it was so incredibly exciting to watch the whole journey in the movie too. In the movie, it shows a lot of different elements of all of the things that you're putting into your training and leading up to the big day. And you have inspired so many people in the world with that.

Let's take a look at the movie trailer.

In the journey of life, there is ups and downs. In marathon, there is a lot of challenges, ups and downs. There is pain in training, pain in running.

Welcome to Vienna, Austria, where Kenya's Eliud Kipchoge will hope to run 26.2 miles in under 2 hours and in doing so beat one of the great sporting barriers of our time.

Everybody should believe in his own capability. You are seeing somebody here with a mind that if he puts it on something, nothing will distract him from it. The moment the gun goes, then that is it.

If it happens, it will be an incredible inspiration.

It's not about the color or where you're born, it's about working hard.

I still believe that Breaking a 2-hour marathon is impossible.

If not now, when?

And everything just stopped.

It was like a solar eclipse.

He wanted to make history and inspire the human family. Everybody should believe. That's what makes us grow and push and push again. So I can say marathon is life.

What do you think about the movie? When you watched the movie, what was it like to see a movie about your own life, about your own journey? What was it like?

When I watched that movie, it reminds me, it's like yesterday. But all in all, it reminds me of how my life was when I was young. The challenges and the challenges also in sport. But my happiness is that my life has been a good inspiration to the next generation, which I am— when I am sleeping actually at night, I am a happy man that I have sent a positive note to most of the youth around the world. And I am trusting that one day I will go around the world telling all the youth actually about top running. Uphold a micronutrient lifestyle. So I trust it will sink into over 3 billion people and the world will actually be fruitful.

Absolutely, absolutely. There's a lot of runners on this podcast who are looking to improve in their running. Do you have any high-level thoughts on ways that athletes can improve? Not the elite athletes, but just more of the recreational runners.

Yes, you know, improvement actually goes hand in hand with dedication. So for the recreational runners, is that, please, after all program for the whole week, go through the program, just run, finish your run, and have actually a chat. Please, if it's Monday to Sunday, please write what happened on Monday and Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, and Friday. Saturday and Sunday in order for you to understand your body. So you should actually have a pain and a tired to know what you are doing, and that it will actually turn you into the real serious runner because you know what you have been doing. Get good shoes, good gear for training, good watch for measuring your heart and all the physiological things which is happening in your body. But the people start training and finish, enjoy when you are running, please enjoy, just run and finish. And, and all in all, month after month, day after day, week after week, you will improve.

In, in the movie, you see several of these different elements of your training and you're putting a lot of dedication into your training. What do you think is the most important part of training? Like if you look at the running component, is it the long run for you? Is it the training? Volume? Is it intensity? What, what do you think it is that, that really helps get you in the best shape possible here?

All the trainings actually before 159 Challenge were important. Long runs actually were critical, crucial, because it continues my body to run in high speed for a very long time. Intensive training like going for intervals at track actually helped me to— my muscles to run very fast and able to actually run in the same speed for a very long time. So, and on the other hand, the recovery runs, I lift my muscles to recover very fast. So all the runs from speed walk to fartlek to long run, semi-long run were critical, crucial because it's combination of everything.

Yeah, very well said. Very last short question. You run so smooth, you make it look so easy. What can runners do to improve their running form? Is there one tip from Eliud Kipchoge?

One tip to improve running is to walk your talk. It's to be consistent in training and dedicate yourself fully. And above all, get the right person to coach you.

Absolutely. Very, very well said. Thank you so much. I really, really appreciate it. And I might see you this weekend actually at the Pre Classics. We're going to be heading out there.

So thank you very much.

All right. Have a good one.

What a legend. It was such an honor to sit down with Elliot not once but twice in a week. Let's talk about some of the other topics discussed and some of my key learnings from taking a deep dive into Elliot's world. Initially, I had prepared a long list of detailed questions also to dive into his specific training. And ask him about his resting heart rate, max heart rate, lactate levels at different stages of training, all sorts of things to uncover real details of his training. Then I actually found out that his team is quite protective of his training data, and understandably so. Elliot trains by pace, by intensity, by heart rate data, and by feel, and he has a team of people around him to guide his training. So heart rate is just one of the data points that they're looking at. They help guide him on how training is going and also look on a week-to-week and month-to-month basis on how the body is reacting to the high training volume and intensity. I know his team also optimizes his performance with other data and tests. For example, he uses the Libre Sense by Abbott for continuous blood glucose level tracking to further dial in his nutrition, what he consumes and when he can best consume it. Some of his training weeks are 120 miles, so 190k, plus strength training and the gym and mobility, ice baths, massages, all of these different things stacked into just one week. Elliot's Strava is pretty empty. There are a few workouts on there, but they really don't show that much data. There is one 18-miler on there at 5:20 minute mile pace average. At altitude, and it does show the cadence and the pace, but there's no heart rate data available here. There are some websites out there that do take a deeper dive into Elliot's training with some workout examples too, but I've also come across plenty of websites that just represent misinformation. During this conversation, I just want to be respectful and avoid topics that he might not feel comfortable to talk about. What I do know is that Elliot runs with a Coros Pace 2 watch and he uses the Pod He also uses a chest heart rate monitor for additional accuracy, and I've seen an Oura ring on his finger. I asked him, how easy are your easy runs? And he said, they're very easy. They're around a 5-minute per kilometer or an 8-minute per mile. Just to put that in perspective, that is 2 minutes and 10 seconds per kilometer slower than his sub-2-hour marathon pace, or 3.5 minutes per mile slower, so definitely a low intensity there. When the topic of sleep came up, he actually shared with me that he takes some days up to 2-hour naps during the day. At this point of the conversation, Eliud started signing some items. We were then joined by Sifan Hassan, who had just won gold in the 5K and the 10K at the Tokyo 2020 Olympic Games and bronze in the 1500 meters. Hassan said to Eliud, you have to tell me the secret of running a marathon under 2:10. Elliot smiled and said, that will be a big project. I've noticed that many athletes look at Elliot as a mentor, and so I asked him the question, how do you guide other athletes at the Cup2Cup training camp, in particular the younger athletes? And his answer really applies to athletes of all different levels, from elite to intermediate to beginner. He guides them by giving athletes the right values, to be patient and to grow sport-wise, not to focus on just one event. He said, in running in life, it is important to grow slowly, to be patient, but above all, be consistent in training. When taking a closer look at Eliud's training fundamentals, this consistency in training keeps coming back. He trains consistently throughout the year, and so he keeps his fitness level rather high so he doesn't have to ramp it up too quickly between races. Something that separates Eliud from most other athletes is that he and his training partners live most of the year at a training camp Kaptakat, just outside of Eldoret in Kenya. He is surrounded by a support system with medical staff, regular physical therapy, and great coaching by Patrick Sang. He can also live and train at altitude over here. Eliud's life is simple at the camp with little distractions and a lot of focus on running and also on relaxing. He does a lot of easy running but also a lot of hard running, and here he can truly focus all of his energy on improving his athletic performance. For non-elite athletes with full-time jobs, with families, and with other responsibilities, we can't just go out there and train like these elite athletes are doing. I see this happen all the time where non-elite athletes are going out there and absolutely wreck themselves and get injured. It is very important to realize that this training load, this intensity and volume is too much to handle, especially when you combine it with some of these other daily stresses. So like Elliot said, that consistency is so important in training. Finding a sustainable training volume that you can handle to set yourself up for long-term success. One thing that stood out to me from my conversations with Elliot was how important it was for him to actually go after that sub-2-hour marathon the first time and miss it. Him having the guts to actually go after something that was seemingly impossible became a stepping stone for him. He learned more on why they missed the first time, and it really changed their way of thinking. So for the everyday runner, don't be afraid to fail. Aim for the moon, and even if you miss it, you're going to learn so many things in the process to improve. Eliud said, have confidence in yourself and your abilities. Don't limit yourself by having a limited mind in running and in life. For Eliud to reach his sub-2-hour goal, he said he needed the right systems, and this applies to everyday runners as well. So you get the right gear, you get the right training partners, the right coach, the right community, all of these different fundamentals to set yourself up for success.

One tip actually to improve running is, is, is to walk your talk. It's to be consistent in training and dedicate yourself fully. Improvement actually goes hand in hand with dedication.

Thank you for watching. Make sure to hit the like button and subscribe for more videos like this. What was one lesson, favorite quote, or key takeaway for you from this interview? Please let me know in the comments.