Bryony Deery: Postpartum Recovery, Hormone Crashes, Birth Preparation & Pregnancy Fitness | TUH #255

We prepare during pregnancy for the baby, and we don't do anything for us. You are so depleted after birth, so the more you do for yourself during pregnancy, the more prepared you are post-birth, which is when you need it.

Don't think about conditioning for pregnancy, but I mean, this is arguably the single hardest physical event that a woman will ever go through.

Imagine what the female body is going through. All of a sudden, you're so depleted, you're exhausted, you've given birth, your hormones are just completely all over the place, and then you're like, oh my God, I have to care for this tiny human being every aspect of life changes, you change who you are, but by choice. At the end of the day, I'm a believer of you should really tune into what feels right for you and do exactly that.

For all of the young soon-to-be moms out there, what, if any, advice would you give?

One thing that I think is helpful, and I wish I was kind of told this more, is that Hey guys, welcome back to the Ultimate Human Podcast.

I'm your host, human biologist Gary Brecka, where we go down the road of everything anti-aging, biohacking, longevity, and everything in between. And today's guest, very special guest, back on the podcast for the same time. I have to tell you that when we announced this second podcast It was the highest level of interest we had in all of 2025. And I had some big guests on in 2025. So this area of interest in prepartum, postpartum, pregnancy, bouncing back, and all things surrounding pregnancy, hormones, and life was just such a level of interest. So welcome back to the podcast.

Thank you so much. I'm so shocked to hear that. Yeah, but yeah, it's such an interesting topic. So yeah, I'm so happy with it.

It really is. And I think You know, the, the more that I've been doing podcasting and sort of taking audience feedback and getting, you know, where are the levels of interest that I should, you know, steer so that I'm really serving my audience.

Yeah.

You know, there, there's an enormous area of interest in, in female hormone therapy and menopause, and there is an enormous area of interest. Seems like the whole world's getting pregnant right now, including in my company, right? We're on like baby number 3.

Yeah.

And I have a very small team. Yes. But just such a paucity of information. And women really, um, being willing to get out there and be vulnerable and, you know, talk about the nuts and bolts of pregnancy, the do's and don'ts, and some of the, you know, things that surprise them. So I'm really excited, uh, for this podcast for my female audience.

Yeah, I'm so excited. Thank you.

Um, I wonder if you might just share your, um, your birthing plan If you had one.

So this is quite funny because I had planned a C-section, which surprises people. I don't know why that surprises people, but it does.

But I mean, and then you could be 1 o'clock on Tuesday.

Well, exactly. And I think it was funny because I was not really, weirdly, I didn't feel afraid of the pain, but I felt afraid of the lack of control. So for me, and also we live in Denmark, most of the time. So we were coming back to London to have our baby. So I just kind of wanted that control of knowing when, what time, all the things. And then, so I did not consider anything because I thought, well, it is going to be very controlled. All is well. And about 8, 10, no, 10 days before, I changed my mind. And I said, I am going to have a natural birth. Or I do not know, some people say, All births are natural, I agree. So vaginal birth, I think I should say. So vaginal birth. So yeah, I just last minute changed my mind and I had no preparation, not one bit of preparation. And I thought, I can do this. There was something that I went for a scan and I knew, I knew she was going to, our baby was going to come early. I knew it. I could feel she was coming like quite—

Intuition.

Yeah. So I said, I know I can do this. I know that my body can do it and I want to just give it a go. So then to prepare, so my birth plan was essentially 10 days. And in that 10 days, I did some things that I think are really fundamental that no one talks about and I think are really beneficial. So one of those things was a thing called the EpiNo. Have you heard of it?

EpiNo? No.

No. So you know what an episiotomy is? So it essentially is no episiotomy. Okay. Put a balloon inside you. You pump it up, you hold it for 10, 15 minutes, and you breathe it out. And every day you go bigger and bigger and bigger. So you essentially stretch yourself.

Right.

And no, I've never heard anyone talk about it. And it's unbelievable, not only physically, because I didn't tear, I didn't have stitches, I didn't have any of those things. And I had a big baby, you know, she was, 8 pounds 6.

Oh my goodness.

Yeah.

8 pounds 6.

Yes. And healthy girl. Yeah, she was a healthy baby.

She walked out.

Yeah, exactly. But I really think mentally it was like a form of visualization for my birth. I was like in mental training for those 10 days.

Wow.

So I knew what to do. I had been there before. It was familiar to me. Because I had done it with the balloon, which is crazy to say because a balloon is not a baby, it's very different. But the feeling, like, it was familiar in some way. So you essentially use your breathwork to breathe this balloon out. So yeah, it was amazing.

Wow. Did you— and if there's anything uncomfortable to ask, then by all means, ask everything.

Yeah.

So did you have an epidural?

Yes. So that's another thing. So I had an epidural, but they did— I don't know, because a few of my friends have had different experiences where they kind kind of give you all the epidural in one go. I had top-ups, like very gradual top-ups. So I still wanted to be aware of when my contractions were happening. Don't ask me why, but I just had this theory that if I could breathe in line with my contractions, that would help my body. Because if you're— a lot of women I had spoken to had said they didn't feel, they didn't know when to push. When they had an epidural. And I had this theory that that would then cause the tearing, because if you're pushing for so long, you're more likely to tear. Whereas if, like, the contraction is kind of your internal push, isn't it? So if you're breathing and pushing with that, in line with that— I pushed for 21 minutes. Wow. And she was out.

That is phenomenal.

Yeah. So I just want to tell everyone about that because I think it's unbelievable. The epinephrine that I used, and I really think that that helps. And the top-up. So I, I I didn't go all in with the epidural. I felt every contraction. I was telling my doctor, incredible, Claire Mellon in the Portland, she's unbelievable. But I was telling her, I'm pushing now because I feel a contraction versus most of her patients, she told me, want to not feel anything. So you're kind of trying to figure out when the contractions are. So yeah, that's a big tip, I would say.

First of all, I've never heard of either of those and I didn't know that you could top up epidurals. I haven't had 3 babies. My former spouse had 3 babies with me.

Yeah.

But that period was hours and hours long. It wasn't— it certainly— and she had an epidural every time. And but it certainly wasn't 21 minutes.

I mean, no, I mean, well, the pushing part was 20 minutes, 21 minutes. You can be in labor. No, no, she was in labor a lot longer.

But I mean, really just the birthing part was— and at some point they—

and that's exhausting—

began to give her like inducing drugs like the Pitocin and other things to really kind of assist it, 'cause she was so exhausted. I just remember being so wiped out.

I mean, imagine what the female body is going through. It is such, and my husband describes it as like a physical fight that you're going through in that time. And it can go on for so long. And then all of a sudden you're so depleted, you're exhausted, you've given birth, your hormones are just completely all over the place. And then you're like, oh my God, I have to care for this tiny human being.

Oh my gosh, not so tiny in your case.

Yeah, exactly. Giant baby in the hospital. Yeah.

Yeah. So, you know, I'm always fascinated by— I've read a lot of things about, you know, the baby's first few minutes into the world. Right. And because obviously they're going from a fluid environment to— in a womb to outside of the womb. There's air, there's lights, you know.

Yeah.

That transition must be mind-numbing. It's like, you know, waking up from hibernation. And the real impact that it has on the nervous system of the baby, um, to very soon after birth be in contact with the mother. And so I wonder if you, you'd walk us through that first just 2 or 3 minutes. Yeah, right. I mean, immediately after birth, was your husband present?

Yeah.

Okay, so he was there too. I passed out.

Yeah, I don't blame you.

I forgot that I am— I mean, I got— I didn't completely go out, but I got woozy and I had to actually sit down. He was probably on the edge of that. I wanted to stand up there. But it did cut the cord for all my kids. Oh, amazing. And it's such a miraculous process. I get emotional even thinking about it. And any father or mother that's been through it probably would too, because it's just such a miracle. When we talked about this before the podcast started, you know, the more I study physiology, the more I just believe in God. Like it's—

Yeah.

And we don't need to go that direction, but I mean, the, the miracle birth, it, it just can't be random in my opinion. It just doesn't happen by accident. But walk us through that first few minutes, like right out, out of the womb.

Yeah, so I think it's so important to say, because one thing I had in my head, which we're told, is the second your baby's here, you are gonna feel like the world stops. You're madly in love. Your, your baby's gonna look at you, you're gonna look at the baby. It's just magical moment, and it is a magical miracle moment for sure. But there are also other things going on that it's a lot to deal with. You know, you have just, as I said, you know, pushed out this huge baby and you're, you're so in shock. Like, I really think most people go into a state of shock and disbelief, and then all of a sudden you're handed this baby and you're like, you're like, oh my God, what's just happened? You're still processing what you've just been through. So I would say that one thing that I think is helpful, and I wish I was kind of told this more, is that it's also okay that you feel like you need a minute the second your baby arrives.

Oh, that's good.

It's also okay, give yourself some grace, give your husband some grace, your partner, because you're— but you've both just been through this crazy moment. No matter I am so lucky with my labor. It was amazing in so many ways, but it was still such an unbelievable moment that you have to go through. And then, I think the bonding happened as time went on, the next, every hour the love grew. It wasn't, I had, so it's a funny one to kind of put into words because you feel, oh my God, this is my baby. I'm going to take care of you forever. I love you so much. But you then feel, okay, I'm getting to know you, you're getting to know me, I'm getting to know myself as a mum as well. And that takes time, and that's okay. Doesn't mean you have postpartum depression, it doesn't mean you're a bad mum, doesn't mean your baby's gonna get taken away. These are all valid feelings, you know. But we tell ourselves, you know, the world stops and then Mozart starts playing, and then, yeah, feel this, and then I Exactly. And then that fucks you up because you're like, oh my God, I don't. And then you keep it to yourself. I don't— I'm not feeling the way everyone's telling me you should feel. And yeah, so yeah, I would say definitely. And now it's unbelievable because, you know, I've firstly— I've had a shower since then. I've like collected myself. I feel like I've, you know, had a sleep and things. You're so— at the end of pregnancy, I was so sleep deprived.

Oh my gosh.

It's unbelievable. So as the days go on, you just are just so madly in love with your baby that it's unbelievable. But I would just, I want to be honest with that and share that it's okay if you don't feel this like romanticized version of birth.

You know, I'm so glad you said that 'cause I don't know if I've ever confessed this in my life, but my, so I have 3 kids and my oldest is a girl. She's 27 now, but I still remember the birthing process. And then when we, got home, um, I felt so guilty because I felt like somebody else's baby was in the house. Like, I was like, is somebody going to come pick this thing up?

No, I have a feeling like someone thinks I'm going to— I've stolen this baby. Yeah.

And, and, um, for me it was like 72 hours.

Yeah.

And then whoosh.

Yeah.

Um, and I didn't go through anything nearly you went through, or my, uh, my former spouse went through. But I remember kind of looking at my daughter, even, um, in, in the crib. And yes, I felt attached and like I loved her, but I didn't feel that— yeah, Mozart-esque. Yeah, like romanticized version of even how her father was supposed to feel. It was 3 or 4 days, and then like a biological nuclear weapon, and then it was— and it's been over ever since, right?

Exactly. So And probably like as time grows, you're like, how can I possibly love them more? But you do. But it's so good that you say that because I think more people need to say that it's actually more like survival mode when you've just had your baby and your baby's in this world. Firstly, you're trying to make sure that, you're so panicked that, I mean, you have these crazy intrusive thoughts. Like I remember—

Crazy intrusive thoughts.

No, you do.

My wife uses that term.

It is. It's so— And do you know what? The more I say it, the more women say to me, "Oh my God, I had the same thing." It's really a thing. And I had heard it a couple of times, but experiencing it, like, it's unbelievable the thoughts that go through your head. Like, my friend, when we got back from the hospital, had filled Elle's room with balloons on the ceiling. So sweet. And at the nighttime, I was like, "Oh my God, what if those balloons somehow go down into the crib?" And, you know, all these stupid things that you would never think. Think. Um, but yeah, you just— your mind goes crazy and you're in survival and you're, you're, you're like a lioness protecting your like little cub.

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So I was in the hospital for, um, so there's a story there. We were The labor, for the birth, one night and two days. And we were ready to leave. And then I suddenly had a lot of pain. So I essentially, I had a big blood clot, which can happen during birth, but mine was quite large. So they were thinking about doing a surgery rather than, 'cause you can take something where it naturally passes. I had like the way, way, way worse than labor. The pain.

Yeah, it was worse than labor.

Way worse. Like the worst pain of my life. So anyway, my doctor removed it with her hands after I had given birth. So that was something.

Wow.

And so I just had— I was like, come on, let's go. And we— I was doing— I was listening to positive affirmations the whole birth, the whole thing. And I just put my headphones in. I had a bit of gas in it and she just manually removed it with her hands. And it was crazy.

And then did it stop just like that?

Just like that. Oh, the pain. Yeah.

And then, so now you're on your way home.

Oh yeah. So then, then literally stopped just like that. I stayed an extra night so that they could monitor, and then I went home and then back with the baby. Yeah.

So you know what, what I, what I think is a journey that very few women talk about is, is, you know, immediately, um, post-birth, you know, um, maybe the guilt of saying, okay, now I want to bounce back too.

Oh yeah.

Um, and I want to get back the body that I had. I want to get back to feeling like I had, maybe being active again. But now you have this infant. And there's an interesting phenomenon that happens with women. It's called caregiver syndrome. And if you look at the category, for example, of autoimmune disease, 82% of autoimmune disease is found in women. And the reason why is not because autoimmune disease is selected by sex. Selective by weakness. And, and they have surmised that women have a tendency to develop this, uh, pattern of behavior called caregiver syndrome, where they put the needs of everyone else before the needs of themselves. Okay, so it's their spouse and their children, um, you know, it's their co-workers, their career, their girlfriends, whatever it is. And over time, this has consequences because they don't engage in self-care. Very often they think that self-care is selfish, like they won't give themselves maybe the thirst first 30 minutes of the day or 60 minutes of the day because they're like, I have so many other people that rely on me that I need to take care of. And so I wonder if, you know, right after birth and you have this infant at home, was it one of those intrusive thoughts that maybe I feel guilty that I actually want to get my pre-pregnancy body back? I want to— I need some actual me time. Um, I've been at this for months.

Um, exactly. Walk us through Well, it's really interesting because there's this narrative of especially kind of in the, in the wellness space, like you're, you're scrutinized for saying like this bounce back thing is in some ways it can be very— I feel like quite conflicted about the bounce back phrase because I totally understand the narrative of you don't bounce back because you're this new person and, you know, it's not realistic and don't put that pressure on yourself. Like, I so get that. And it's crazy what the female body goes through. But at the same time, I don't think you should feel bad for wanting to bounce back in inverted commas, because that's okay too. Like, it's okay to have physical goals which make you feel confident and make you feel like your old self or whatever you want to call it. That's okay. And I think there's so much online that it's like anti-bounce back, but anti-bounce back, yes. And at the end of the day, I'm a believer of every woman should just do what makes them feel good at the end of the day, whether that's during pregnancy, type of birth, breastfeeding, no breastfeeding, using formula, not using formula, uh, bounce— bouncing back to what— or giving themselves more grace, taking it easy, you should really tune into what feels right for you and do exactly that and quieten everything else. Because why should we have an opinion on someone else? I have no clue. I find it the weirdest concept.

Yeah. And I think there's plenty of people with opinions on it. But if you were looking back now at the pregnancy journey, first of all, did you guys plan it? And yeah, so timing-wise, you guys were— let's do this.

Well, we never really like had a sit-down meeting and we're like, let's go. August 2nd. Yeah, exactly. I'll see you on the 9th.

Well, you got to time the ovulation cycle, right? So it gets a little weird.

Yeah, exactly. And I so understand why and how and all the things that people need to do to get pregnant. It's not always easy, but we were very lucky and it was straight after we got married and we never had a conversation to be like, let's go, but it just it happened literally one month after we got married.

Oh wow.

So yeah, I mean, we were so lucky. But I have to say, I was— I listened to, I think it was you and Sage, who I love. She's so sweet.

Oh, I love her too.

You and Sage on the Skinny Confidential. And I think you're talking about methylfolate and all those things. I think I spoke about this on the last episode. Um, so I was doing a few things that maybe helped. I also was in the best shape of my life because I had just done this huge challenge, you know. I was getting ready for my wedding. I was in this like athlete mode, which, right, I also think is really beneficial for pregnancy, for pregnancy, during pregnancy, after pregnancy.

I think so too.

The mindset and this like that— the only way I kind of have it in my mind is this like athlete mindset.

Yeah, like a fit pregnancy.

Exactly. So yeah, we were, we were very lucky. We didn't plan it, but it happened very quickly.

Is there anything, if you were looking back on that time frame now, that you would do differently or that really surprised you?

On the pregnancy as a whole? The thing that surprised me the most was the hormones.

For sure.

Yeah, just the, just the real ups and downs and the kind of like you, you do have like lonely moments and that surprised me. Um, and the sickness. But one thing I would say that really got me through, and I really— it's annoying for someone that is in the fitness space to say this, but it's so true. Like, I compare my pregnancy to other people I know that haven't done exercise throughout their pregnancy, and it's just unbelievable the difference. And also unbelievable the difference in the labor.

Yeah.

And then the recovery. So I think It was kind of a real moment for me to be like, this is so cool. What we do, like what we do on the app, what I believe in really, really is so cool.

Well, I think, you know, what's interesting is, you know, we don't think about conditioning for pregnancy, but I mean, this is arguably the single hardest event, physical event that a woman will ever go through.

You'll train your whole life.

At least intentionally go through. Yeah, and I bet if we were to look at, and it'd be interesting to do it, like caloric burn and heart rate and, you know, just— oh my gosh, all of, you know, the stress levels and the strain. I mean, your Whoop must have been about to explode. Um, and, and thinking that, you know, I would do nothing to prepare for that moment seems a little oxymoronic. Any— like, you wouldn't prepare for a half marathon or a marathon. You would condition yourself for that, um, event. Makes a lot of, a lot of sense to me.

Yeah. And I also just think on that, we prepare during pregnancy for the baby. So we prepare their room, their nursery, their, you know, we buy every single thing that everyone tells us we need to buy and we don't do anything for us. And I think that's really, really important. And 'cause you are so depleted after birth. So the more you do for yourself during pregnancy, the better you are afterwards, the more prepared you are post-birth, which is when you need it.

What would you say post-birth was the biggest change for you as, as a woman? I mean, physically, you obviously know what you go through, but what was the biggest change? Because I hear a lot of women talk about a priority shift that they didn't anticipate, right, if they've never had a child. And I've heard women talk about it's this kind of love that came out of me that was for the first time I cared about something more than myself. Yourself. Um, and, uh, I'm not asking you to say that if that's not what happened, but there seems to be this incredible new cascade of emotions, hormones, an identity, and, uh, that happens after birth that just had never happened in your, in, in your career, in your adult female career. Did you experience something like that?

Yes, I have experienced the biggest change in my identity and my priorities and what I have time for. The biggest shift ever. I feel like a completely different person. It's wild.

In what ways?

And in honestly every way I could have ever imagined. Like I was at one of our community dinners last night explaining this to someone. And the only way I can articulate one of the kind of feelings I've gone through is I feel I feel everything much deeper. So I feel like it's not that I'm kind of— I don't know whether you'd call it I've now become like a very sensitive person or something, but I just, I feel everything, whether it's positive, sad, empathy for someone else. I have like unlocked these feelings I never knew I had. So that's really crazy. I feel my priorities have completely shifted, which is of course obvious because you care for that little person more than anything in the world. Yeah, that is your purpose now.

Yeah.

Um, but I also feel it gives you this like ninja, like, focus.

You do kind of feel like, well, hell yeah, I got that, nailed it.

It's really weird because I feel in so many ways, I feel like this, as so many women will relate, you're dissociated. You feel kind of very sensitive, very all over the place in your mind. Like sometimes you can— I can go into a room and people are talking and I'm not really hearing them. I feel that. But so you go through all of those natural feelings and being very hard on yourself and all of that. But then on the other side, feel like superhuman. It's weird.

You know what's interesting? I read a study a while ago called the Spain Scale of Emotion, scale of positive and negative emotion, and talked about frequency, right? Frequency that leaves our body, the frequency of authenticity, frequency of love. And we often talk about, you know, the universal law of attraction, right? You know, depending on the kind of frequency you put out is what you would attract in the universe. And there's a prevailing theory that women are more intuitive. Their intuition is heightened, not because they're more intuitive, but because they're more sensitive to frequency. And, and after pregnancy, they have this heightened sense of sensitivity to frequency.

So that's so interesting.

We call it intuition.

Okay.

But it's not intuition. It's actually a sensitivity to frequency.

Okay.

You know, like in my case, you know, my wife Sage, um, she's a very good judge of character, just to categorize it. And, you know, we'll meet somebody, I'll like this guy, she's like, I just don't like this dude. I'm like, well, why? I mean, look at his shoes, came in a Ferrari, he's got great suit, like, you know, a nice watch. I mean, what's wrong with him? She's like, I don't think you should do business with him. And I'm like, well, why? Like, what is it? Is his eyes too close together? Like, like, give me some data. And And she's like, I can't put a finger on it, but something's up. And then 6 months later, I'm pulling the knife out of my back. Right. You know, and, and I think, you know, maybe as a part of this miracle of birth, because what I observed in my former spouse, when in all 3 of our kids was once we brought the baby home, I was petrified.

Yeah.

I was like, I don't know what to do with this thing. I thought it was— I always felt like I was going to break it. Yeah, right. So I was like, so gentle. Like I would put her up and her head would fall.

Yeah.

Oh my God. And, but there's so much more resilient than you think.

Yeah.

I mean, they're really tough. And, um, and so I was— I always approached my firstborn, and by the time we got to 3, I was like, just lay him on the floor.

Yeah, yeah.

He doesn't need a playpen. Yeah, there's so many hand-me-downs. Sorry, Dylan.

I'm not sure.

Yeah, yeah. Yeah, um, you know, like when you, when you get on your first commercial flight with your first baby, it's like the Ringing Brothers Circus, right? You got the playpen, you got the diaper bag, you got extra formula.

Like, you always, you always thought the first parent, you're just like, here's the seat belt to play with.

Yeah, it's like if you can put them in the seat belt, stick you in the back seat pocket. Um, and, and it is funny because you actually learn that they're a lot more, um, um, resilient. But what fascinated me, and it sort of correlated to what I had been reading, was when my daughter would cry, it all sounded the same to me.

Yeah.

And like, she's just in there wailing and, and she's like, no, she's hungry or she's gassy or she wants to be picked up. And I mean, how do you know?

Yeah.

So, but there was like this, this person that emerged that I never knew but somehow was confident and understood what to do. And I was like, have you been reading books? Like, is there a manual somewhere I didn't get a copy of? Like, how do you just know? And I think it's a part of that miracle of birth, at least from having observed it. Like, a woman just— this entire woman emerges from them that they've never met before, your husband's never met before, and it just sort of takes over and has this confidence, sense of, I know what to do.

Yeah.

Did you sort of experience that? Yeah, that was wild for me.

It's crazy because you kind of step into your— no matter, like, what power dynamic in your relationship, when you bring that baby home, you are that, as I said, that lioness.

In charge and in charge.

Yeah, exactly.

No doubt.

And the dad kind of like follows in your footsteps.

Well, just so you know, we're panic-stricken. Oh yeah.

And it's so hard on the dads too. You know, like we all talk about women, but it's hard for everyone and the ups and the downs and everything. But yeah, I completely experienced that. And especially with, With breastfeeding, I felt there was a lot going on with that that was surprising to me. But yeah, I saw actually one of these videos online where they recorded the mum and the baby, like the bedroom, and the baby would start crying. But what you saw on the video was the mum got out of bed like seconds before, woke up seconds before the cry. So it's so crazy how in tune. But if you think about it, you are literally on a cellular level bonded to that baby for 9 months. And it's just, it's unbelievable when you think of it like that. You're so in tune with them when they come out. It's crazy. So I think that is kind of, unfortunately, the edge we have over dads.

So wild. I mean, again, this really correlates to what I was reading because they, you know, what we call intuition is really this frequency. And for you to be that tied into the baby and, as their frequency is changing, the mother senses it. And I mean, there's lots of documentation of this, right? And it's one of those miracles. Like, I feel like we're only beginning to understand it. As smart as we think we are, Mother Nature has really outsmarted us. You know, even when I used to feed, you know, and I always refer to the first child 'cause I kind of had it down by the time the third one came around. You know, I would pick up my daughter and she's like, she wants a bottle. And I would be like, well, shoving it in her face and she turned on her head. And she's like, and I'm like, she doesn't want the bottle. And then, and then she would grab her and lay her a certain way and go right in.

She's like dazzling with milk. Yeah, same thing happens with us.

Arm than I do. But you know, that must just be such an amazing time to like meet this person that was always been inside you, but just for whatever reason wasn't presented to the world, um, until, until this miracle of birth.

Um, but it is amazing. It's incredible.

And I know you hate this phrase, but can we talk a little bit about the bounce back phase?

We can. No, I don't even hate it. I hate that it's problematic.

The thing. Yeah.

Like, who cares? Bounce back if you want to bounce back. Don't bounce back. Be calm. Take your time. Do whatever you want to do. But yeah, for me, to be completely honest, this is my job. This is what I love to do. So I do want to feel strong. I do want to also look strong. And I have physical goals as well. And I want to be strong in my mind for my baby. Baby. So yeah, there was definitely a, um, a kind of fitness protocol when I, when I came back. I actually started working out 2 weeks after, um, having Elle, which is typically— it's normally 6 weeks. You get your doctor's check, you then start exercising. And I think that is good advice for someone that isn't very, like, confident in the gym or in workouts. But otherwise, I think, you know, a lot of people know their own bodies.

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Oh, for sure. I was, I was working out the day before, um, delivery. Yeah, the day before delivery.

What were you doing? I gotta know.

I was doing Pilates and lifting weights.

Were you? That's so—

and I was lifting heavy weights and I was doing a long class. I felt empowered. Like, it was— I felt so heavy by that point and so sleep deprived. But the one time I felt like me was when I was on the mat doing my workout. I felt empowered. I felt good. I was like in the zone, you know, that athlete mindset.

Yeah.

I felt like, okay, I was almost training in that workout for the delivery, which of course they're two very different things, but that was my mindset. So I think, as you say, having then two weeks off for the recovery and also sleep and just feeling like you had a tiny bit of energy at some point in the day. And then I was just gradually building up and building up, and now I'm pretty much back to my normal workouts.

And how far out?

8 weeks.

Oh my gosh. I mean, you look amazing.

Thank you so much.

And how are you feeling sleeping?

I will be honest, like, I feel good in clothes. Clothes. Clothes. Clothes are working wonders for me right now. But yeah, I'll be completely honest. I had a photo shoot yesterday with our community. And at the beginning of the photo shoot, I just did a few pictures that we had to get for some press images. And I felt really not great. And I'm coming from someone that did get back to feeling good in clothes quite soon after giving birth and things. But the second you have a camera, a bad camera angle or whatever, you're like, oh God. That's just how it goes. And I think I'm working on giving myself more grace in that sense and being patient. And it takes time and not everyone goes straight into a photo shoot after birth. So that was pretty stupid to do something like that. And we need to just stop putting pressure on ourselves in that sense and just get back to doing the things that make you feel good. So yeah, I've been working out. I've been doing, I do 4 Pilates, classes a week from the app, and I do 2 weight training sessions. So I do one upper and one lower kind of focus.

Yeah, my wife is a part of your community. She loves it. Oh yeah, Sage is a part of your community. What really got her into your community had nothing to do with birth, um, or even Pilates. It was actually about your journey with your back injury.

Yes.

Yeah, um, because it really resonated with her. She had a, uh, an L5-S1 fusion from a really bad car accident, and and it changed everything about her life because, um, she was born in Steamboat Springs, so she grew up skiing, and she's an expert, expert skier. Um, her nickname is Safety Sage, and like, she hasn't had a parking ticket since 1994 or something. Like, we call her Safety Sage. Like, if there's a crosswalk, she goes all the way to the crosswalk, makes a 90-degree angle, waits for the light to change. I'm already over there and half a block down the street, you know. Like I've got this. But when she gets on a pair of skis, it's like Lindsey Vonn. I mean, it's the craziest thing I've ever, ever seen. Like just a little ponytail sticking out of a helmet and down the mountain she goes.

I love that.

And, um, uh, so this back injury was a really tough thing for her because, you know, it's very similar to your experience with your, you know, your, your back injury, and it just really resonated with her. And I will say, um, not just to plug your community, but she's, she's gotten a lot out of it.

Oh, I'm so pleased. Yeah, when she sent that message, I, I was so passionate about her trying it because I know it, I know it will help.

Yeah. And, and, you know, muscle is our metabolic currency, and I think, you know, um, when women think about weight training, strength training, resistance training, I think there's a, uh, a stigma, if you will, um, You know, women don't want to get too big, they don't want to get too bulky. I think Dr. Gabrielle Lyon has done a great job of messaging about the importance of muscle. And, and, you know, there are, there are a lot of, you know, great thought leaders in, in the space that, um, you're very unlikely to get bulky by doing resistance training. But it probably had a significant impact on your ability to not only get through the birthing process but this bounce coming— for 2 weeks for you to be out, be back to your full exercise routine. Yeah, it's pretty soon, you know. I would say, barring a C-section, probably very few women—

yeah—

are able to do that.

Well, I mean, 2 weeks I was modifying, so I was building my core back up because it takes a lot. Like, you're not able to fully do everything on your core, or you, you still can train your core during pregnancy but not everything. So I was building up, and now I'm fully back to, to my full workouts, which is amazing. I'm back to doing my live class and that feels really good. But it's a funny time, I think. I think for also for women now, there is such a rise in the likes of Ozempic and things. So I do think postpartum mums have a harder time nowadays because there is that— there's this kind of new world of Ozempic feeling like is everywhere. Yeah. And I think the comparison of, you know, different body types now— the norm has changed, and I think that creates a lot of added pressure for women. So, um, yeah.

So what is, um— has anything changed about your diet, your supplement routine? Um, you know, obviously exercise has got to be built around your your child's schedule. Do you mind me asking if you're breastfeeding?

So I stopped breastfeeding after 5 weeks.

5 weeks, okay.

Mostly because just I needed to go back to work and it's a full-time job breastfeeding.

Yeah, it is.

It really is. I mean, what I didn't realize is that, I mean, during the day alone is like 5 times and each time it's like 45 minutes to an hour that you need to allow. So, I mean, how can you get anything done? I've got so much respect for people that are able to do it and want to do it. I think whatever journey is great, but for me, I had to stop. I also noticed I really felt low with my hormones. And I spoke to my doctor, and again, it's so weird and irrational, but I texted her and said, I'm so embarrassed. I'm having these low moments and stuff. Stuff. She said, well, we can try an estrogen patch, or we can— you can stop breastfeeding and see how. And honestly, like, almost to the day, it shifted.

Wow. You know, I, I see this in menopausal women too. You know, I've been trying to do a lot more content around, you know, female-specific topics where there's a paucity of information. And, you know, since my wife just went through menopause, it was a big topic for us. And what I will say is um, we didn't, we didn't notice or flag the signs of, uh, uh, menopause early enough because it, it sort of crept in on, on her, you know, started with some brain fog and she was like, I'm just busy, we got a lot going on, we're traveling a lot. Um, but it, it, it, you know, as soon as you see the hot flash, okay, that's like the, the big warning sign. And I think everybody goes, okay, hot flash, menopause. But what started years earlier was just the brain fog. Yeah, the fatigue, especially in the morning. Like, she just couldn't get out of bed. And wow, much to what you were saying, um, we did this test called the Dutch test, hormone test, a 24-hour urine test, and everything came glaringly apparent. She had no cortisol. Her melatonin was through the roof in the morning. Um, so she was trying to wake up almost by taking a sleeping pill, right? Yeah, because the melatonin was so high, the cortisol was so low.

Wow.

It explained a lot of mood and emotional things, explain the lack of libido. We've been very vulnerable and, and, yeah, you know, open about it, uh, because I think it, it will help a lot of women for sure. But, um, I'm happy to hear that your OB-GYN offered estrogen because, you know, if, if there was just one lever to sort of torture a woman, it would be estrogen, right?

Wow.

Like everything that a woman does not want, happens by changing estrogen, and it's, it's either dominance or lack thereof in the body. You know, skin elasticity, uh, water retention, uh, brain fog, you know, libido, energy, focus, concentration, short-term recall. Like, just by shutting that one switch off, it's like the hub of a wheel with all these spokes. It seems like whole world went to hell in a handbasket at once.

Yeah.

And I think so many OB-GYNs afraid to suggest hormone therapy, especially at your age.

Yeah.

So that's really, um, I think progressive for him or her to have done that. It's great.

And I'm so happy that we're talking about it because you just, you just get so embarrassed. Like, I really was like shocked by—

I thought, you know, you convinced yourself that you're a mom with this beautiful baby, right? Yeah.

And, and I cannot describe to the crashes. Like, I would be like so, so happy, having the best day, everything was amazing, just like elated. And then all of a sudden, whoa, I feel the worst I've ever felt. I feel low, sad, dissociated, all these things, like one, literally one minute to the next. And, and again, like, that is— it's really sad that people, and probably a lot of people people don't diagnose or, or delay the diagnosis because they do have that shame attached, which is really sad. And they probably feel like, you know, whether it's, whether it's postpartum, they're worried that something's going to happen, or, you know, with menopause, and maybe they, they're embarrassed or something. And it's such a shame to feel like that when actually the diagnosis is the thing that will change.

Yeah, you know, I really applauded our federal government of the Food and Drug Administration because they recently removed the black box warnings from female hormone therapy. There was a enormous study done called the Women's Health Initiative, and it looked at female hormone therapy over a prolonged period of time, tens of thousands of women. But it was really misreported, and the diagnostic underpinnings of this study were, um, they weren't manipulated in the study, but the information was manipulated. It did not show hormone therapy is having an increase in breast cancer, but that's what people thought for decades. And so women just completely avoided hormones. And, you know, getting testing for women and looking at your levels and ratios of hormones can completely change your life. So for you, stopping breastfeeding brought those back into a normal—

Exactly. Yeah. And sorry, I completely went off on a tangent. You asked me about nutrition and supplements. Supplements. But yeah, I think, I think really being so incredibly mindful of your nutrition is so important. And I don't mean cutting calories, I mean fueling and nourishing your body. Um, you know, getting healthy fats in, lots of protein, lots of fiber, drinking a lot of water. That's especially if you're breastfeeding. Oh yeah, you're so dehydrated. And you know, having, having more calories if you are breastfeeding. Um, so I think it's really important. I think that is the time where you should be focusing on your, your nutrition more than ever.

And you're not vegan or vegetarian, right?

No.

Okay, so I mean, could you give us like a typical day's worth of meals? Like, what does that look like?

So, um, in the morning I'll have something like, um, eggs or a protein shake if I'm in a rush. Um, you got me back on eggs actually. I was off, but so many protein and, um, berries So I try and eat, you know, I guess protein powder is the one like processed thing I would be going for. And then I will have for lunch, I'll do like leftovers, which maybe is salmon, vegetables, rice. And then in the evening, maybe it's a steak, more vegetables, sweet potato, quinoa, something like that. And I'll have like, like for snacks, Greek yogurt, dark chocolate, um, nut butter.

Has, have you— has, has your palate just completely changed? Has it stayed the same, or did you have any like those weird pregnancy cravings? You always hear of like pickles and ice cream or something crazy.

I had just—

did you go off the rails?

I went— oh, I had like extreme aversions. I had crazy sickness for the first 3 months. So certain, like garlic, the smell of— like, we were in Spain and like basically everything has garlic in. And normally I would love all the food in Spain and I was just like, get me away from— I, I was my birthday stayed in the room. Yeah, I, I ate cereal for my birthday in the, in the room. Yeah. Um, but yeah, so there were, there was a lot of aversions. I didn't have so much like craving, um, more like crispy cold fruit, things like that. Um, but yeah, now it was weird because I I thought has— because I started eating eggs during pregnancy and I started noticing that I was less sensitive to dairy, um, and that seems to have—

less sensitive to dairy? Well, yeah, that's great.

Yeah, so I was having more dairy than ever, like yogurts and— exactly, not— I don't drink milk and dairy milk, um, but yeah, yogurts and things like that. And I wouldn't be so worried about like a sauce or something, right? Um, but yeah, I've pretty much stayed the same. And then supplements-wise, I'm taking— let me think with my brain fog— all the things.

With my brain fog? Yeah, I'll fix that for you after the podcast.

Please, I'm so excited to do that test. Um, so methylfolate.

Methylfolate, monster, huge.

Really good. I take, um, Perfect Aminos in the morning.

Um, it's excellent, all 9 essential amino acids.

Yeah, I have the one that has the electrolytes in it as well. Yeah, yeah. Creatine. I actually put those together. Um, creatine is a big one, I think.

Creatine is huge. I actually just launched a creatine here in the UK and all throughout Europe. It's, it's a, it's the HCL version so that, uh, there's much less bloating. It's more water-soluble.

Amazing.

Um, and, uh, then, then the monohydrate. Some women do fine on monohydrate, but if you don't— and my wife bloats like a puffer fish on on.

Oh, that's interesting.

But the creatine hydrochloride, the HCL, she does excellent with. What was it— what is astounding about where the pattern of research is really starting to support creatine, especially for, um, women, is in the cognitive side, you know, crossing the blood-brain barrier. Hey guys, let me tell you about one of my favorite new hydration drinks. Now this is for distance athletes, HIIT cardio exercisers, people that sweat a lot or exercise intensely. And A-Game is a hydration drink. It has 8 essential vitamins. It has all of the electrolytes, the entire suite of B vitamins. Before you freak out and read that it has 21 grams of sugar, which it does, the sugar is coming from natural cane sugar and honey, my preferred mechanisms for getting glucose into the blood during intense exercise. It also has natural flavors, but these natural flavors don't come from bacterial fermentation. They actually come from real citrus fruits, and the color is from vegetable juice, not artificial dyes. So next time you're looking for a great hydration drink, drink and you're exercising intensely, A-Game is your choice. Now let's get back to the Ultimate Human Podcast.

Speaking of brain fog, I— that's what I really notice. I feel much sharper taking creatine, um, which is, is crazy because some people think it's, you know, it can mitigate sleep deprivation. Yeah, I, I feel really good, um, back. I didn't take creatine when I was pregnant, even though I'm sure you probably could, but I just didn't. So yeah, I feel good back on that. And then what else? Zinc, iron. That's mostly for the hair shedding.

I'm glad you brought that up too, because that is a strong correlation to female alopecia postpartum.

It's crazy because you have this like luscious, thick hair during pregnancy and you're like, great, that was the one, you know, like great thing that I love. And then it, then it just Takes it away from you. And then what else am I taking? Magnesium, probiotic. Did I say that one? And I think that's everything.

Yeah, that's it. You know, I think to the, you know, the mindset towards a lot of this, like you said, I think a lot of women put so much pressure on themselves to perform and they don't give themselves that grace. They don't actually raise their hand when they have these bouts of of sadness. You know, very often postpartum goes undiagnosed by the female. It's usually the spouse that comes in and finally says, we got to get you some, some help because you are not yourself.

Yeah.

Could you talk a little bit about the male's role? I don't want you to throw your husband under the bus. But, but like, what would you— what advice would you give to to, you know, young couples, young husbands, um, that are going to go through this with their spouse for the first time. Um, because I've got 3 kids heading this direction, and, and, uh, you know, I, I had a phenomenal OB-GYN on my podcast the other day, and he talked— it was male— and he talked about the importance of, uh, pregnancy, getting pregnant, having the baby, and then immediately after caring for the baby. Called it the 1,000-day pregnancy.

Okay.

And he called it 1,000 days because he talked about the preparation phase. You know, men sort of think like their role is over after the wife is pregnant, but the truth is, you know, they're contributing 50% of the genetic material. Um, sperm health is just as important as egg health. Yeah, but we focus mainly on egg health. Um, and you know, sperm counts are declining at 1% a year right now. Um, infertility is rising at 2% a year. This is a very dangerous divergence.

Yeah.

Um, and you know, the, uh, the male has a, has a very significant role in this pregnancy process even though they're not carrying the fetus. So how did hubby do?

Well, he, he's amazing. I've got no complaints. So he's— and you know what, he's really You know, everyone says that you love them more when they become a dad, and that is definitely true. I mean, I loved him a lot already, and now it's definitely a different type of love.

Yes, you see a different side of him, right?

Yeah, exactly. But what I think is really amazing is that I'll— because he's very, you know, he's much older than me. He's very kind of— he's not used to this new world of mental health, anxiety, you know, that we're now discussing. So it's not so normal to him to have these open discussions. He didn't— he wasn't raised in that way. So, um, is he Dutch?

He's Danish.

Yeah, yeah. So, um, I, you know, I was talking to him, and again, it's like not something he's used to. So I was like, I'm feeling like this, and, you know, I'm feeling all these lows, and I'm just constantly crying. Like constantly, daily. And he was kind of like taking it in. And I thought, you know, does he get it? He doesn't get this. And then it wasn't until when we were sat with his mom and there was something that was like a comment was made or whatever. And she wasn't even remotely attacking me, just to clarify, but he felt that he needed to like stand up for me somehow. And he just repeated everything I had been saying that, you know, like as women, you're like, are they listening?

Are they?

Did he actually take any of that in? And then he repeated all these things. Well, you know, and the estrogen and this happens and you know what women have to go through so much. And he just completely like came to my defense. And I was like, it's so interesting 'cause whilst I've become this like, lioness towards the baby, he's become this like protector of me and the baby. So it's, it's, it's interesting. Like, the guys don't get enough credit because they are going through a lot as well. And you also, like, the dynamic changes. I mean, firstly, you're, you're literally not able to have sex medically for the first 6 weeks, you know, right? So that is quite a change for some people.

Sure.

So there are so many things that go on that are, you know, a shift in the stomach and the sleep and everything. So, and you're both going through that. Yeah. Um, so I would say for men, just, I think the, the biggest thing that they can do is to really understand the realness of hormones.

Yes.

And the support that the mom needs emotionally, I would say.

Yeah.

Um, and he's really, you know, but he's been amazing and really surprised me in that sense. Not to like discredit him before, but not to say it was so insensitive.

Amazing to hear how like every aspect of life changes. You know, you change who you are, but by choice, by, by design and by choice. It's not like, ah, I got this baby and I, you know, gotta, gotta put the baby first. No, like your priority shifts and it's what you choose to do and it happens biophysiologically, which again, it brings me back to this miracle birth. It's like this can't happen by accident, you know. You know, you're talking about videos of the mother waking up before the child wakes up and is on her way in, and the child wakes up. It doesn't surprise me at all. It's just so fascinating to me. And, you know, I know a lot of, um, you know, young women— there, there was for years this, this, this push for women to be like men and like be entrepreneurs. Seize the day. Sleep is for losers. You sleep when you die. Take the hill. You're just as qualified. And I don't deny or argue any of those points, um, but when it comes to pregnancy, uh, it, it really is on, on, on their shoulders. And to watch this like miracle emerge from them, to me, was really just fascinating.

Like, it's a time where you can't go into that kind of like, oh yeah, like sleep is for losers and like hustle culture. You cannot hustle culture. Yeah, you can't do that. You really can't. And it's a fact of life. And the more support that you can get, the better.

But to hear that it changes, you know, hormonally and physiologically, so you're like, actually, I want nothing to do with that. This is my priority now.

Exactly.

It's like God gives you that gift of this shift in priority so you don't have to fight those tendencies. Do you know what I mean?

But what is interesting, like, for, for us, we're like a slightly— I guess have like a different situation from the norm. Like, I'm working much more than he is working, for example. So really, he's more available than I am to— as in he's more flexible.

That's cool.

Which is really cool. So, but, but again, it's, it's so weird to me that there's this narrative of like, I've heard some dads being like, oh, I'm babysitting tonight. It's like, pretty sure you're just parenting.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly.

Pretty sure that's just called being a parent. Yeah, you know, when it's like, oh, I'm on dad duty, it's like, imagine a mum saying I'm babysitting, or a mum mom duty. Like, that doesn't happen. So I, like, we're really 50/50 in this parenting. And I, I, it's funny because I feel so lucky because I'm so aware that that's not the norm. But at the same time, you know, why should I be feeling like— it's a bit of a funny one, isn't it?

Yeah, that really is. Now that you say it, that's—

I had—

I probably said that a thousand times.

Imagine, imagine, like I said Imagine I am home with the kids tonight.

Pretty sure you are just parenting. Okay.

Pretty sure you are just existing in your life, how it is, how you chose it to be.

Did you get hired?

Yeah, exactly. Are you getting paid by the hour?

We sort of feel like we should get a cookie or something. It is like, hey, I was here all night with the kids.

Exactly. But yeah, well done. But it is so funny because he is so not like that. And he will, talking about you, filling yourself, filling your own cup postpartum. Like in the mornings, he knows I need to work out, I need to meditate, I need to do my breathwork, all those things. So he goes and takes Elle, does her morning feed, will look after her as I do. And we're a complete tag team. But he knows, okay, just as much as he needs his time, I need my time. So we tag team. But it was funny, I had one, I did a Q&A on Instagram and I've actually been so lucky. I've not really had any kind of like negative comments or anything, but one person really made me laugh. She said, where is Elle during the day? I was like, well, my office is at home. My baby's at home. Casper's at home. Like I've openly said we have a nanny, you know, as if I sent Elle off to like summer camp or something 8 weeks a week.

I don't know, that's a great question, you know.

But I think it is because we're not used to that, like, kind of the— and I get it because typically, you know, historically the men went out to work and— but, you know, times are changing, guys. So yeah.

So overall, um, and, and then I want to get into the VIP questions because I have a VIP community like you do. And, um, when I told them you were coming back on, I mean, it was the most number of questions we ever had submitted. My team had to just narrow, narrow them down. So I went I want to get to those, uh, questions. But, um, for all of the young soon-to-be moms, yes, out there, um, and, you know, they're, they're in a great relationship, they decided, okay, then I'm gonna— I want to get pregnant. Yeah, you know, the, the fire stoked. Um, what, if any, advice, you know, would you give? And I would love some early stage, you know, parenting advice if comfortable doing that.

Of course. So I would say just go with what you feel is best for you, your family situation, your partner during pregnancy. Try not to— I know it's really tempting to listen to all the advice, but just really know that you know best right now. And I think that kind of just relieves you in some way. And I also think there are hard times during pregnancy, but there are also amazing times and bonding times. And I would say, especially if you're a first-time mom and you're able to have that time, you know, alone and things without other kids running around, if you're a first-time mom, really try to use it as a time to really go inwards and have that like cozy time with yourself to reflect on who you are as a person and who you want to be going into motherhood and what you want to teach your, your child and just look forward to it. It is, it's a roller coaster journey, but it is the most unbelievable thing you will do. And yeah, you'll just— I'm so excited for you. It's amazing.

You know, I don't give parenting advice other than to say it just gets better and better and better. You know, my kids, I can truly say this, are my best friends. Yeah, they are truly my best friends as adults. They're 27, 25, 21, and 17. But how they choose to spend time with me and I choose to spend time with them. We're like a traveling comedy show. We work in the same industry together. I'm so empowered by them and inspired by them and, yeah, for different reasons. But the one thing that I think we did very well through all three of our kids was we just, we didn't shut our life down. We brought our children into our life. Like, we had the Bugaboo stroller. We went to restaurants. We went to nightclubs. But I mean, we went out to dinner. The kid actually falls asleep in a noisy restaurant. And if they were a little bit late getting to bed, I didn't make it so you had to come to the house and tiptoe around the house. Because I noticed what those kids were like when they were on commercial flights. Like, we all sit next to the babies. First time that they've actually heard noise when they're trying to take a nap.

Yeah, that's so true.

And if I was to give any advice, it would just be just bring your baby and your kids into your life. Don't come to a full stop and create this sterile environment, hyper-regimented environment, because then the first time that that child is outside of that environment, you know, it's a disaster. It's like a meltdown.

It's interesting 'cause we've actually got Elle on a big routine, but within that, we're not, you know, we'll be, for example, like where Elle sleeps is right next to our kitchen. We'll have friends over, like we don't—

That's what I mean, yeah.

Things like that. I just don't think, I want my baby to be able to sleep sleep anywhere, anytime. And, you know, I think things like that are so important. But the routine that we have her on— what I will say, and it's not advice because I still think you should just do whatever you feel is best, co-sleeping, whatever that is, um, but for me, the routine has helped me then have my routine and my freedom. Yes, her being on a routine has given her structure in her day, but also me structure in my day, knowing when I have, have time. That's so good for work as well.

So yeah, so, um, well guys, uh, as I wind down all of my podcasts, um, I ask all my guests the same question. I asked it to you the last time you were on the podcast, if you remember. Um, but before we head into the VIP community, what, what does it mean to you to be an ultimate human?

Well, now as a I think being the ultimate human is really about being truly proud of myself and looking at myself through my daughter's eyes. Like, would she be proud of me? And passing that on and kind of giving everything that I am to her. And yeah, I think that would make me, in this phase of life the ultimate human.

Amazing how much change in just a few short months.

Exactly. Yeah, thank you so much for having me.

You're so welcome. Thank you for coming on. And until next time, guys, that's just science.