Koa Smith: Nature Did What Antidepressants Couldn't After He Nearly Died | TUH #288

Facing your fear is the interesting thing. And it's funny because in surfing it comes in waves. Even though I have surfing and I have tested my fear, you have to show up and face it every time it arises.

For 15 years, you've been walking into waves that could kill you. And the one thing we know about fear is it narrows your ability to make decisions, which would put you at greater risk. But I've never met somebody who meditates regularly who hasn't told me that it changed their life.

Meditation is the practice of becoming aware and strengthening that muscle in your mind. All of a sudden, you feel so connected. All of a sudden, like, fear doesn't really exist.

I know so many people that I hold in such high regard, like meditation, that have had life-changing experiences with psychedelics.

Psychedelics are there, and it's a very powerful tool if you need it, but also you can get there through meditation, but it takes a lot more surrendering, letting go, dealing with your stuff, and then you can get there.

Describe the Transcendental Meditation. What does that look like? When do you do it? How do you do it?

One mechanism that I had that was really interesting. I called it—

hey guys, welcome back to The Ultimate Human Podcast. I'm your host, human biologist Gary Brecka, where we go down the road of everything anti-aging, biohacking, longevity, and everything in between. And today's guest is kind of one of those in-betweens that I think you're going to get a lot out of. As I was doing the guest research on today's guest. I really found it fascinating. So listen to this introduction: he's considered a professional surfer, a storyteller, an entrepreneur, and an abundance advocate. So that one caught my attention— abundance advocate— because abundance is missing from the mindset of most of us that have a scarcity mentality. So I'm really excited to run the podcast with you today. Welcome to The Ultimate Human, Koa.

Thank you for having me. Thank you.

Um, You know, I could go through like the accolades so that people would be like, well, why should I listen to this guy? 3-time NSSA national champion. I mean, it's unbelievable. Best barrel 2014 Surfer Poll. Inaugural winner of the GoPro of the World. Perfect 30-point ride. And then a 25-point backup in the 2024 Vans Pipe Masters not that long ago. 2-time Eddie, am I saying this right, Akau invitee?

Yeah, it's like a big wave event.

Yeah.

Really intense.

And then ABC's The Ultimate Surfer, which there may be some copyright infringement with The Ultimate Human. We'll find out later. But The Ultimate Surfer. But what I'm most fascinated about is, you know, this theme that runs through a lot of my podcast guests, and it's definitely present in you. And I feel like the most impactful people, the most passionate, purposeful people, have solved some kind of problem in their life. And I want to get into your traumatic brain injury and how you healed from that. But for 15 years, you've been walking into waves that could kill you. And so fear has got to be something that was very present in your career. I think about UFC fighters, boxers, professional athletes. Surfers, just everyday, everyday human beings that are just gripped by fear. And the one thing we know about fear is it narrows your ability to make decisions, which would put you at greater risk. So I'd love to start there on your journey. Like, how did you learn to manage the fear of the ocean?

I mean, fear is such an interesting one that we all walk around carrying, right? Like, even even though I have surfing and I've tested my fear, you have to show up and face it every time it arises, right? Just because I did it, you know, yesterday doesn't mean I have a free pass on it today. And I think that's something that's really prevalent with surfing. The beautiful thing about surfing is you start slow, you start small, right? I started surfing when I was 3 years old. To me, wow, dropping in on a wave knee-high, that was scary. But you do that and then you kind of, you learn that it's okay. You start learning the ocean, you start being able to identify what's dangerous and not dangerous, and essentially you just keep exploring that until you are surfing waves that are absolutely ginormous and, you know, facing your fear. Is the interesting thing. It's like you literally, when you feel that, and it's funny because in surfing it comes in, comes in waves.

No pun intended.

Waves. Yeah. And when that wave comes, are you gonna shrink or are you gonna expand and trust and go? And it— what's the feeling after? Like if you shrunk and you didn't go and you were safe, how do you feel after that?

Hmm.

Not super good.

Yeah.

You don't know what could have happened back there. You could have got the wave of your life. You could have experienced something amazing. Yes, you could have gotten injured too. But in my experiences, life takes you down that road. And if you do get injured, that's your path that becomes your teacher, you know?

Yeah. So what are some of the practices that you— deployed to kind of channel that fear? I know you're a big fan of, um, breathwork, visualization, presence training, cold exposure. Like, how have you woven those into your professional and, and maybe even your non-professional career over the years to help you stay focused and, and, and, and manage that fear? Because I think it's applicable not just to people that are facing the fear of death, but like The fear of starting a business, the fear of maybe not raising their kids right, the fear of starting a new relationship. I mean, it's something that all human beings grapple with. And the less we face it and embrace it or learn to cope with it, the more it rules our life.

I'll say that the better I feel, the clearer I am, the easier it is to face and see through that fear. If I'm not feeling good, if I didn't sleep very good or I'm anxious or overcaffeinated or I ate shitty, then sometimes that fear just engulfs me and I can't see through it. So the better I'm taking care of myself, my flow nowadays is like, it involves a lot of meditation. It involves a lot of sleep. Like my diet is like, It's very clean. That's the baseline. Right. Every day there's these moments that I feel fear, even if it's just like telling someone their, their whatever, thank you for whatever.

Right.

Talking to a stranger, approaching someone, telling them like, if I am constantly practicing overcoming those little moments of fear, then when, that bigger moment of fear comes, I'm more comfortable with it. Yeah.

So it has— so breathwork and meditation, are those like daily practices of yours?

Yeah. Um, I was super into Wim Hof breathing for like 15 years ago, maybe. Wow. Like ice baths, Wim Hof.

Like, damn, you were like— you're like the OG of it. Yeah, I've been into it for 6 years and it's changed my life.

Me and my brothers were like always kind of— I don't want to say like on the— yeah, maybe on the forefront of like saunas, ice baths. I mean, I grew up on Kauai. Laird Hamilton is a nearby neighbor. So yeah, you kind of hear through the grapevine that Laird's doing this thing.

Yeah, you know, he's getting cold water.

Yeah, he's strapping weights to himself and swimming in the river. Like, yeah, or like, he's, he's putting butter in his coffee.

No way.

So I don't know, I feel like it kind of trickled down from the layered God and you kind of hear these things and you start applying them and then you start feeling it. And so, yeah, breathwork. I mean, for me now it's more on the meditation side. Yeah, I learned Transcendental Meditation when I was 17, went down that path for a little bit. And then the last like 3 years of my 3 or 4 years. I've been deep into Joe Dispenza's meditation work.

Huge fan.

Yeah, and you just— I don't know, like, you just feel so powerful and so good when you feel all that energy in your body and your heart's like exploding all of a sudden, and you feel so connected all of a sudden. Like, I don't know, like, fear doesn't really exist, you know?

You know, I've, I've, um I have dabbled in the— I'm definitely an avid breathwork, uh, person. Every, every day of my life, I don't think I've missed breathwork in probably 4 years. Every, every day, it's a consistent part of my morning routine. It's a consistent part of my nighttime routine. Um, but I haven't been deep down the rabbit hole of meditation. But I've never met somebody who meditates regularly who hasn't told me that it changed their life. Everyone. I mean, um, you know, that, that— I mean, some people that I hold in very, very high regard have said meditation was the switch that changed everything. So for someone that's not familiar with meditating, I mean, I think they think it's like close your eyes and imagine a beach or put yourself in a happy place. But, um, describe like the Transcendental Meditation or, or the Wim Hof meditation. What does that look like? When do you do it? How do you do it?

Yeah, so I feel like breathwork is obviously— I mean, is also a meditation. I feel like I recommend breathwork for people that have a really busy mind. That's what people say, I can't meditate, my mind's so crazy. And literally meditation is the practice of becoming aware and strengthening that muscle in your mind, right? So when you're meditating, say Transcendental Meditation, that gives you a mantra or Joe Dispenza's meditation, he's walking you through different focal points, whether that's focusing on your heart, focusing on the space around your body. And you, you need to catch yourself when you're not focusing on the mantra or the focus point. So you can be meditating for 20 minutes, but if you're down the rabbit hole of your to-do list and, oh, I can't believe that person said that, and then next thing you know, you're like, oh my God, the meditation's over. Great, great meditation. But if you can catch yourself and notice when you're not focusing on what your task is and bring yourself back to that task, every time you bring yourself back to that task, it gets more intense. So you're, you're learning how to concentrate your energy and your ability to focus in the present moment. Wow. And with that comes like just a lot of really good feelings. But also what I've noticed in some of my deeper meditation is all of a sudden that thought that comes to you is something that has been holding you back. So at first it's like, oh yeah, I forgot I got to do that tomorrow. And you bring yourself back and then, oh, and then all of a sudden your body is like, oh, this isn't working, we gotta we gotta call in the big guns, you know?

And it's like, we gotta tell the truth.

Remember that one time your dad said this to you when you were 6?

Yeah.

And you're like, holy shit, I haven't thought about that in a really long time. And then you're like, oh my God, that really affected me. And all of a sudden you're like thinking about it and you're in this— you're, you're— and for me it's visual, like I'm there and I'm feeling it. I'm like, I'm getting chicken skin right now. But in that moment, all of a sudden you're able to see it from your perspective now. You're revisiting that moment, and maybe you can see his side of the story and you can see your side of the story. And then if you can like forgive it and, and dissolve it—

wow—

then all of a sudden that just healed this huge energetic blockage that has been holding you back your whole life. And you haven't known about it because you're so caught up. And then every time you like free those blockages, all of a sudden you have access to more presence. And when you're living your life throughout the day, essentially the meditation never ends because when you're walking, you're noticing, oh, am I thinking about something or am I actually walking? Am I here in the present moment?

Yeah.

You start feeling like, oh, I actually don't I don't like doing what I do or something like that. And you're like, wow, maybe I should think about that or I should go for a run or I should stop eating processed foods or whatever.

Right?

So I mean, that was kind of a long-winded answer of, I feel like meditation is strengthening that muscle of like realizing that you are free and you can do whatever you want. But you have to like be aware of what you want.

So many people, like I said, that I hold in such high regard that describe the very exact same experience. And Will Ahmed, who's the CEO of Whoop, was one of the guys that told me, you know, here he is, he's built a multi-billion dollar company, you know, from zero to $10 billion in valuation and had this massive impact on allowing people to have, you know, control of their health data. And a lot of what he conceptualizes, he does through meditation. And then after talking to Will, I've talked to dozens of other people about just the impact that it's had on changing the trajectory of their life. Similar to what you're saying, like we drown out the voices that we need to hear and we don't listen to the voices that we should. And that was their best way of describing meditation to me because you actually eventually learn to hear the voices that you should hear, because it's your own voice. Listen, there's what I share on this podcast, and then there's what I share with my inner circle. If you've been following me for a while, you know how I hold nothing back here. But my VIP community, that's where the real magic happens. Picture this. You're struggling with energy crashes, brain fog, or just feeling like you're not operating at your peak, and you don't know where to get real answers. But here's what really sets this apart. You're not just getting my insights. When I have incredible guests on the podcast, VIP VIP members get to submit questions for a private podcast segment. So that world-renowned expert we just interviewed, you get exclusive access to their knowledge tailored to your specific situation. This section is under the private podcast section in the Ultimate Human community. And speaking of exclusive, you're getting my personal protocols, the exact tools I use for water fasting, gut optimization, and morning routines that have taken me decades to perfect. This isn't theory. This is what works in the real world. The community launches challenges throughout the year where you get direct access to me and my network of experts. It's like having a personal health advisory board for less than $100 a month. Your health is your wealth, and this investment pays dividends for life. Join the VIP community at theultimatehuman.com/vip and step into your ultimate potential. Now let's get back to the Ultimate Human Podcast.

Yeah. And then once that, once you become best friends with your own voice, Yeah. Then like, what?

Yeah.

'Cause then you're like, oh, I'm not, like, I really wanna do this. I know I should do this. I'm sure you've felt that with—

Oh yeah.

Growing these businesses, talking to these people, reaching out, these things you know you should do, but then all of a sudden you're like, I'm not ready. I'm, and you're like, what? I noticed that that's holding me back. So actually I'm gonna do it. And then when you do it, that voice gets louder and all of a sudden you, you like have this guide. Yeah. All you have to do is follow it.

Yeah.

It's interesting.

Let's, let's go back to that moment where you had the traumatic brain injury, which was from a reef, as I understand it. Hazards of the job. And I don't profess to know a lot about professional surfing, but I have, you know, watched documentaries and I'm I've admired it from afar, and I know that sometimes when those waves draw back, they seem to be crashing into relatively shallow water. And so if you were taken over by a wave, I mean, you're just literally being piledriven into solid rock, basically.

Potentially. Yeah, I mean, it's like falling off a balcony. Well, yeah, what creates a good wave is like, you know, open ocean, deep water going to shallower water. And there's these different shaped reefs around the world that create like these legendary waves, right? So that is a risk. And my, my brain injury was my, my greatest teacher. Absolutely. And actually, before that, I had a head injury where I got ran over by a jet ski. I wasn't going super fast, but I still got ran over by a jet ski. And that was like my first concussion experience. Like 30 minutes later, all of a sudden, like, um, I couldn't see out of my right eye. Um, um, my, my— something started happening in my pocket and I realized my phone was ringing. And my brother who was sitting next to me accidentally pocket dialed me. And I like looked at the phone and I saw his name and I was like, Alex Smith? Like, 'Who is that? Who could that be?' No, like, just no idea what was going on. And, um, similar to like a really wild psychedelic experience too, which I could relate to. Um, so that was my first concussion experience, and I, I realized then and there that like when you're in that state freaking out doesn't help, right? You know, like, there's kind of— even though that's the go-to for most of us, the only thing you can do is tell yourself you're going to be okay, stay present, and just let it— hopefully it passes, right? Because it's, it's completely scary. Everything you've ever known or just have experienced all of a sudden is different, right? You're just like, uh-huh, mom, help.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

So, so 2 years after that, or maybe 3 years, rough timeline, I ended up hitting my head on the reef and I got another concussion.

So you got knocked fully unconscious? I did.

Yeah.

In the water. That's super dangerous for sure.

Yeah. I came to underwater, which was interesting.

Wow.

I had like— I mean, could have been a near-death experience, you know, one of those moments where I hit something. Like, I pulled into this barrel, I was too deep, I got launched and I hit something. And all it felt like was just like a ragdoll shake, like, "Brrr." Wow. And all of a sudden, everything was blue and I could hear the most peaceful violin music ever. I still remember the song. It was just like—

No way.

The most calming, beautiful violin music. And then all of a sudden I felt the ragdoll again. And I was like, oh, like, where am I? Oh, I'm underwater. Oh shit, don't black out, don't black out, don't black out. And then got to the surface and luckily there wasn't another wave, so I was able to grab my board and paddle over. Um, and I like— there was a water photographer, I was like, I think I hit my board. And I like looked over and there was just like coral reef scratch on my whole arm, whole back, whole back of my head. But I did have a huge dent on my board, so I maybe hit my head on my board, knocked out, hit my head on the reef, and then came back. That's kind of maybe the theory. Wow. Yeah, so that experience was, um, really interesting because right after that it came came back to what I experienced of kind of like forgetting what you're doing, where you are. And I was like just trying to get in.

Yeah, you said like double faces, even depression set in. Yeah, like something you hadn't grappled with before because you don't seem like you would ever be a depressed person.

After— I mean, that, that was a big lesson for me because I'm a professional surfer, surf big waves, like I don't have to talk, I can just do it. I can go out, I don't have to prove anything to anyone. I can just go out and I can surf and all my hard work, all everything shines through. This is my expression. Take that expression away from you, then who are you?

Yeah.

How do you find that connection? How do you find that feeling if you don't have that outlet anymore?

Yeah.

And also not having the right support medically. Um, not being able to— there was no path for me. It was— I, I had a hard time getting a brain scan because they were like, we, we don't want you to see that, that nothing's there, and then you'll start surfing again and you could really hurt yourself. So no brain scan for you, just cruise and, and heal, basically. And after like 8 months of that, I was like, do I have a brain tumor? Because something's happening and I don't know what it is.

What were the symptoms of that? Like, I know you talk about double faces and like depressive-like symptoms, but, um, noise was a huge one for me. Super sensitive.

Super sensitive noise. Crazy headaches. Um, um, stress was not— like, I would, I would get so stressed out that I could feel my head was so hot that it felt like it was just like an engine gonna explode. So if something was stressing me out, it was just like the level— maybe I couldn't, I couldn't handle the stress or something. There was no like, um, regulating it.

Yeah.

But the things that helped me was— the number one thing that helped me was the forest. Really? I would bring a hammock and a journal and a book, and I just fuck off and go in the forest for like 8 hours some days.

No kidding.

And I felt so good.

Really?

Yeah, it was really interesting.

It's like Eastern medicine has been prescribing forest bathing for centuries, you know. That's a, that's a huge thing in, in Eastern medicine, um, is forest bathing.

Um, I mean, I still do it to this day. It's like one of my favorite tools.

How'd you figure out the beach to the ocean, or was it just, you just wanted to get away from everything, you sort of accidentally realized that me just trying to get away from all of this cacophony of modern society. I just went and hugged a hammock between two trees and grabbed the book, and then all of a sudden I started to feel better.

I mean, maybe a little bit for sure, like trying to get away and just find peace, like especially with your phone. Like there's so much distraction, like distractions.

This is Hawaii, right?

Would break my brain. Yeah.

Yeah. So you got like the best of the coast and the best of the forest. For sure. It's just such a cool ecosystem for that. Yeah.

I grew up bow hunting. Really? On Kauai when I was really young. I started bow hunting when I was 12 years old. It was crazy. That's cool. But I think the things that I felt when I was out hunting, like that deep, deep connection where you're like, you hear everything and all of a sudden you just see the light beams through the trees and the fog and the animals and stuff like that. I think I knew that. I knew how powerful that was and how it made me feel. So maybe that's where I was like, I need to go back there, that kind of thing.

Yeah. So the forest bathing, which is what it's called, that's when you felt the best.

That's when I felt the best.

Yeah.

But it was helping, but it wasn't solving. And I think I kind of got to a point where I started feeling like a deep numbness, which was really interesting. My family, you'll meet them one day. They're so beautiful, so positive, happy, supportive.

Yeah.

Um, at the time I was in a healthy relationship, like I had love around me, but I couldn't feel— I couldn't feel it. I couldn't feel happiness. I couldn't— I almost couldn't even feel sadness. Like I just had this like numbness over me and One mechanism that I had that was really interesting, maybe you could help explain this, but I called it like slippery thoughts. So like I'd have a thought and it would just play and play and play and play and play and go, brrr. And then it would get like so gnarly that my head would get hot and like I couldn't get out of it. And some of those thoughts were about like stressful things in my life. But at this time some of those thoughts would be like end your life. You could just do it. You can just end your life right now. That would solve it. It would solve some things, you know? And then da-da-da-da-da-da— I'd rather do that! And I was just like oh my gosh, yeah, I need help.

Yeah, okay.

Um, and that's when I went to a therapist. She said "Oh, I got you." Here's some antidepressants. Take these.

Ah, classic.

Take these.

Love it.

Take 'em.

Yeah.

Come on, take 'em.

Go on, take 'em.

Take 'em now.

Yeah.

But I always had such a deep connection to nature and to, I don't know, I just knew that that was not the thing. And I had some light experiences with psychedelics before in my life. And I always knew that, like the insights they gave me, that if I ever really needed it, I feel like I could use them as a source of, of healing or understanding. At the same time, it was when, uh, have you seen that movie Fantastic Fungi by Paul Stamets?

Yes, dude.

Yeah, wild.

That movie is spreading across the forest floor, and it talks about the communication exactly between them and the intelligence of this thing is as, as really just being a very intelligent life force, it completely reframed my viewpoint on psychedelics and just, and just fungi and mushrooms in general.

Yeah, the mycelium network is able to like communicate, like let the trees communicate through it and also share nutrients through it. Yeah, big trees sharing nutrients to the little trees. Just trippy. So as I was going in—

By the way, I'm gonna put a link to that in the show notes 'cause it was super off topic, but it was a great, yeah, that was an incredible—

Yeah, I mean, you'll see how it connects. In there, he talks about he had a stuttering issue and he did a large dose of psilocybin. He got stuck in a storm. It's a crazy story. He was never able to talk to girls before. He'd get really nervous and stutter. He went home. All right, while he was in the storm, he was saying like, I need to stop stuttering, I need to stop stuttering, I need to stop stuttering, I need to stop stuttering. Just return, like repeating it, repeating it. Went home, went to sleep. Next day he's walking down the street, beautiful girl walks by and he goes, hey, how you doing today?

I'm Paul.

And from then on, he never stuttered again in his life.

Wow.

So I heard that and that came out like Literally the day after, I was prescribed antidepressants, and a light bulb just went bing. I was like, oh, that's what I need to do, you know?

Yeah, that's so serendipitous.

Yeah, so I ended up going into the deep in the forest. There's a place, um, where I'm from where you can hike in and, um, camp like totally off the grid. No service, you got to bring everything on your back, and it's like really that primal life of going back to our ancients where we're like, you're going to get your food, you know, you're swimming in the water. I mean, we weren't like eating from the land. We were eating tuna fish sandwiches.

Right, right, from a can. Crumble Bee tuna. I don't hold that against you, brother. I mean, none of us is Bear Grylls, you know, where you're like, all you need is a buck knife and some toothpaste. I mean, some floss and you can like, kill a bear and, you know, for sure. But, but yeah, even though that would be so cool to actually really be able to live off the land, like truly be able to take like 5 items and go into some terrain and live for a month, you know.

I mean, you figured out all this, you can figure out that.

Yeah, yeah, I think you'll be okay.

Sweet will just be landing and laughing.

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I really forgot who I was. Yeah. I was in this state for so long of just like survival mode that I forgot who I was. And I think that was a big thing. But so the intention was to go up the valley. We were sitting in this most beautiful pond, me and my brother, we were naked in the sun. And we took about maybe like 3 grams of mushrooms, which is not like a heroic dose, like 5 grams, but it's—

it's a rogue dose. It's—

it's enough, you know, it's enough.

A hero's dose.

Yeah, I mean, that's what they call it, a hero's dose, because you got to be a hero to really let go all of that and go in.

You're a little soft that day, but that's okay. Yeah.

Um, but so I was— I was doing Wim Hof breathing, I was just calling it on, and it can be— it's it's intimidating, you know, because you're taking something.

Yeah.

And it's taking you and making you feel— it's the unknown. It's an unknown tsunami. You don't know what's gonna happen, and you're not driving the ship, you know. So you have to be very okay and, and very like, just surrender, surrender, surrender, surrender. And I was just like Wim Hofing, bringing it in, welcoming it, you know. And all of a sudden, I mean, I don't know how deep you want to go into it, man.

I mean, let's go. Okay. Yeah, my audience wants to hear it.

I remember, like, um, I, um, I don't know if you've gone, like, to an indigenous place before, but like Fiji, for an example, um, when you go to a place, a village or whatever, they, they hold a ceremony for you, you know. They, they sing, they dance, they share their food, they share their, um, in that situation, their kava or their ava. Um, and they like, they have this ceremonial celebration sharing with you their culture, right? And as these, um, as the psilocybin started to hit, it was just like this beautiful ceremony of like um, beautiful colors. And my eyes are closed here. Beautiful colors, beautiful, like, almost like beautiful women, like, kind of coming in, like, slowly entering my system.

Okay.

And then as it got more and more intense, all of a sudden I was in this landscape of— it was almost like— this is just gonna It's gonna sound— we're talking about psychedelic trip. Okay, yeah, yeah, let me just be very clear.

It's a judgment-free zone, brother. So, okay, okay, the judgment curtain's lifted.

So, um, all of a sudden I'm on this—

this—

my eyes are closed and I'm, I'm on this, um, there's this landscape of like the Egyptian pyramids, okay, in the distance. And I'm kind of like up here on the top of one of these pyramids And I look beside me and there's a bench right there. And two of these large light beings, like they just looked like the sun, they're just boom, here, appeared next to me. And in a voice that was very vibrational, said, "Sit down, sit down," like demanding. I was like, "Oh fuck, okay." And sit down. And it ended up taking me back to my childhood. Who I was when I was 5 years old. That, that like joyous, just so excited about life, surfing, hanging with my friends, just so in love with life. And it reminded me in a voice that was pretty intense, like, koa, like, this is who you were. You're a good person. You're here to do good things. Like, 'Um, you were loved.' You're just— And it started getting so intense. 'You know what to do. You have all the tools. You just gotta apply them.' And all of a sudden there was like this explosion in my heart.

Wow!

My heart just went boom, and that sensation went throughout my whole body, and I could feel again. So that numbness of not being able to feel any of those emotions just bathed my— and went through my— exploded through my whole body.

Wow.

And after that experience, it was very— it gave me very clear instructions in which I followed that healed my head injury. So the instructions were like your diet. There's no, no room for cheating. Um, caffeine— like, no caffeine, no, no stimulants. So nothing that's gonna affect your natural energy levels, because you are on a healing path. You need to know where your baseline is, and you need to slowly, slowly grow that baseline. What I found with my head injury is it wasn't like a knee injury where you can kind of feel your knee and be like, I could do a squat, you know, that doesn't hurt that bad. But the head injury, you don't really know. Like some days you feel good, you'll go for a run, and then at the end of the run you're like, oh shit, I went too far.

Yeah.

And you're in your bed for the next week. So yeah, it was like breathwork, meditation, journaling, ocean time. Forest time, very clean diet, sleep. Like, don't do anything that you don't want to do. Like, don't go to the barbecue because you're invited. Like, take care of yourself and really like own your situation. So, wow. I applied that.

Such a metaphor for life, man. So many people think that self-care is selfish. Mm-hmm. You know, they develop something called caregiver syndrome, just constantly putting the needs of everybody else before the needs themselves. And one of them is, socially, I know my friends will have a better time if I go out with them. So even though I don't want to go, I'm going to go so they have a better time. It's like you just sort of keep giving yourself away. It's like those withdrawals from the account without any deposits. So that's really good advice and came from somewhere, but at the time that you needed it the most.

For sure.

So you just heeded it because this is such a surreal experience. Yeah.

And that like numbness and depression disappeared. I never felt that again.

That's so wild.

And after that I was so happy. Like it was pretty crazy.

Literally coming out of those woods with your brother.

100%. 100%.

Did your brother notice it right away too?

100%.

Dude, you're different. Yeah. Yeah.

And I was just happy. I was inspired. I was reconnecting— reconnected with myself. Could have been a glitch, but when I went back to civilization, my Face ID didn't recognize me. Could have been a glitch, I don't know, but we'll add that to the story. Wild. Um, and then I was surfing in the next, um, month, and then I ended up 2 months later getting a crazy wave at Pipeline, and I just And I've been healing ever since following that journey.

Was that the one where you put the GoPro camera in your mouth?

I mean, I do that a lot.

But there was one famous 29-second wave.

No, that was in Namibia in South Africa.

Okay, yeah, yeah, I read about that. That was wild.

Yeah, I mean, and I think another one that's interesting is like, I was always asking people's opinion on how I can heal. What can I do? What can I not do? And then in the end, it was just like, just trust yourself, trust that voice, and do it, you know? Because people don't know what you're going through. I mean, obviously if we're talking to you, man, that helps for sure. Yeah, there's so many people like, if you ever hit your head again, you're gonna be a vegetable, don't surf anymore.

Yeah.

I'm just like, oh, what? Like, don't tell me that.

Yeah, yeah, exactly. And that probably framed a lot. In fact, that probably drove a lot of the depressive state that you have, because basically what they said is, don't be who you are for the rest of your life. Yeah, and exactly, when you sort of reframe that conversation, I mean, you take away what's actually given you so much life. And I don't mean from an egotistical standpoint where people are looking at you like, oh my God, look how— what a great surfer you are. But just, you, you don't reach that level without having a love for what you're doing. And so it's not what you do, it's who you are.

Yeah.

So someone told you you're not that person anymore.

Yeah. Then who am I? I thought I knew, but yeah. Yeah.

So you really credit that journey with a total pivot and change in direction in your life?

Absolutely.

Yeah, absolutely. That is it. That is so analogous to so many stories that I hear. You know, I don't know that I've ever actually heard someone in a deep state of struggling with drug addiction and alcohol addiction, post-traumatic stress disorder, depression, anxiety, ruminating thoughts, that hasn't gone on a similar journey and had just a profound experience, is what you're saying. Yeah.

Yeah. I mean, it's such an amazing tool. And to me, like, I've— since kind of went down that path of psychedelics, experiencing ayahuasca and like different, different psychedelics. Because I was like, if that healed me, maybe this is my path of, you know, just experiment— experiencing these different experiences. And when you do these experiences, you just feel like you're like taking a vacation and just talking to the Creator. And it feels so natural when you're doing it.

It's just like you weren't freaked out, you weren't scared, you weren't like, make this stop.

Yeah, yes, potentially, you know, it's, it's not easy. Like, it shows you stuff that's disgusting and shows you stuff that's godly and beautiful, but in the end, it makes you feel like you're a part of this all.

Mm, that connection, you know, that we're all connected.

Yeah, you realize that you're a part of it all.

Yeah.

And I feel like that's one of the biggest things with humanity right now is they're not feeling the connection. Hmm.

I totally agree with you.

They're so caught up in this right here and the way they look, their job, how much money matter, you know, all of this. And they're not connected to the what's beyond.

Source.

What's beyond. They're not connecting to source. And that can come to you it can come to you in whatever you want to call it, but it's there. And if you just spend time connecting with it, your life gets a lot easier because then all of a sudden you realize that it's all fucking good.

Yeah.

You can't really like, it's going to be all right. Yeah. You know what I mean?

And yeah, you know, years ago I had a vacation. I took my kids on an extreme vacation in Costa Rica and we did like—

An extreme vacation?

Yeah. Oh, I like that. Yeah, so it was like 10 days. My sons loved it. Daughter hated it, um, but, uh, we did like rappelling, whitewater rafting, canyoneering, uh, spelunking. You know, we, we did everything that was dangerous in Costa Rica for, for days. And, um, and I had a speaking engagement in Miami, and, and, and I had to leave the jungle and, and fly back to Miami without— before the family left. And I landed, and it was actually this $100 million mastermind event at Live nightclub during the day. I never forget, I woke up in the jungle in Costa Rica, and at like 5, 6 o'clock at night, I was walking into Live nightclub, and it felt so surreal. Like, this is all just fake. This is just— this is a distraction. This is all meant to distract us. Like, I had one of those very weird— like, I wanted to get back to the jungle. Like, I wanted to go back so bad, just get back on the plane. And I remember that experience, and I think I guess that's as close as I've had to a psychedelic experience. But, um, I know what you mean when you look at the natural world and you've— and somehow you've reframed it from this experience. Um, so you look at life completely differently after that. You know I'm all about optimizing performance, and lately I've been using the ION Weighted Vest during my workouts, and it's been a game changer. It isn't your average weighted vest. It's designed to fit like a second skin activating your core, improving blood flow, and even helping you with recovery while you train. What I love most is that the weight is perfectly distributed. It doesn't pull on your shoulders or throw off your alignment. Whether I'm doing strength training or cardio or just taking a walk, I'm burning more calories, building muscle, and pushing my endurance even further. If you're serious about leveling up your training and unlocking your full potential, check out the ION Weighted Vest at IONGEAR.com. That's aiongear.com, and you can use code ULTIMATE for 10% off and start training smarter today. Now let's get back to the Ultimate Human Podcast. Yeah.

And I think that's where, like, medit— I, I really enjoy meditation nowadays. People are like, oh, like, you are a big mushroom guy. Like, you probably just eat mushrooms all the time. Like, yeah, we're like, let's trip your way through life. Yeah, let's go eat some mushrooms. Like, I'm like I'm just like, no, you know, like if I'm doing it, I'm going all in. And it's probably like once every 3 years now. Yeah, you know, but for me, meditation and going really deep takes me to that realm. But like I said before about like the insights you get, the insights become very clean and clear where when you do psychedelics, it's a tool that like If you need it, it'll show you it. But you can also get there and it's a lot more mellow with meditation. And like, you're driving the ship when you're meditating.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. If stuff gets in the way, I'm like, "Oh, I'm back," you know? Yeah, yeah.

So I think that's an important engagement that I'd like to tell is like, psychedelics are there and it's a very powerful tool if you need it.

Use it.

But also there's, there's, you can get there through meditation, but it takes a lot more self-realization, a lot of facing yourself, a lot of surrendering, letting go, and dealing with, with your stuff. And then it, you can get there right there.

So, so, you know, getting rid of the stimulants, getting rid of the crappy food, um, now you're on this journey, uh, with paraxanthine, um, paraxanthine journey. Well, I mean, it's part of your journey, right?

Yeah, no, for sure.

Great. And which is a caffeine metabolite. And I've had some experience with it before, but it actually gives the same kind of feeling as caffeine without jitters, without crashes. Was that because of this experience that you had where you're like, I'm going to get all of these stimulants out of my life? You know, fix my diet.

Yeah, I think slightly like that's what started the path. But I think what you said about your experience coming back to reality from the jungle and realizing like all the distractions. I think nowadays we've been fed, we're just misled is what we've been. We can't trust like, oh, well, I thought this was good for you. Oh, that gives you cancer. Oh, I thought this was good for you. Nope, that doesn't help you at all. Yeah. And I mean, being a professional surfer, like, I mean, it's kind of funny being a professional surfer. Like, you got to do what it takes to make money. And yeah, a lot of people are sponsored by Red Bull and Monster and like all these energy drinks. And I was sponsored by Celsius at the time. And then all of a sudden I realized I was like, I can't— I don't want to be a part of this anymore. Yeah. Like, I don't want to— all the hard work I do, all the self-work I do in the training and the diet and all these sacrifices. I'm not gonna be like, oh, and I drink Celsius and that's why I feel so good. So that was part of it why I got introduced to Tiani. He saw one of my Mudwater documentaries where I talked about this whole experience and he wanted to start like an electrolyte energy drink. Cool. So just to like—

But a natural one.

But a natural, exactly. Powered by paraxanthine, to help people get the right energy, the energy that is going to make you feel connected and focused and clear, not just like— yeah, which is fun sometimes.

That's why I always hated like pre-workouts like C4 and the high like, uh, Ma Wang and caffeine and like the, the NO2 boosters. I mean, I took them years, years ago and like coming out of college and like, I always felt terrible on them. Well, maybe. Yeah.

You're kind of like, is this— this is what success is worth taking?

Yeah, exactly. This is working for them to succeed. Yeah.

But I think there's an age of truth and like being able to provide. I feel like paraxanthine is going to be like the future, right? It's like when I take it, I feel so clear, I feel so motivated, and it helps me tap into that like creative flow state more. Where other caffeines will out-jitter me and then almost like I'm just anxious and afraid to do anything. Right. So yeah, it's, it's been a really fun journey and hearing the feedback of it, of getting people off of those crazy energy drinks and realizing like, oh, I can actually tap into my own energy. This makes me feel like so clear and so good. Yeah. I mean, we're all here. We We're playing the game. We have to make money somehow to fund this life. And if I can do it in a way that's like bringing good to humanity, it's the way I want to do it.

I love it. So tell me about your brand journeys now that you're on, because I know you've got a lot of things going right now, but it's nice to know the story that leads to the brands because I think most people, everybody's a capitalist at the end of the day, right? I mean, we have to fund our lifestyle, like you said.

We need our hyperbaric chamber, you know, in our house. Yeah, that's true. But if we can get it from leading people to feeling better and more connected, then that's the whole thing.

I don't think I've ever done a podcast like this.

There we go.

My team's like, you don't have shoes on. Like, you just killed the brand right there.

Censor the toes.

I have gorgeous, gorgeous toes.

That's for the VIPs.

Censor the toes, yeah. My wife's gonna be like, you did not just put your toes on the podcast. Like, she's gonna kill me.

Oh my gosh. But yeah, I mean, Like I said, with my brothers, we were kind of on the forefront of that. We were healthy. We were watching our diet at a very young age.

And sunlight, you're exercising, you're breathing whether you want it or not. I mean, like, you know, when you're surfing, you're almost doing like a Wim Hof style of breathing anyway.

We also live in Hawaii, which is like the most natural environment. We're surfing, we're so healthy. I think it really started hitting us when we started living in places, other places. In California and this, where our natural routine wasn't giving us all of this and we weren't feeling super strong and healthy and powerful. So then we had to start learning how to do it on the road.

You know what I mean?

But one of the first endeavors, my brothers and I and our good friend, Cole Rothman, started a little cafe on the North Shore of Oahu. It was just like healthy smoothie bowls, Bullet Coffee's, you know, from Laird Hamilton, basically.

Yeah.

And that, that has been a 10-year process now. We have 5 locations on Oahu and then we just franchised. We sold 13 districts in California. Okay. So it's getting to the point that it's growing and it's turning into something and it's kind of scary and it's really, really cool. But yeah, the goal with that was just You know, when we go to a store, and it's getting easier nowadays, but 10 years ago, if you're not eating at home, you're not really getting a good meal, right?

That's so true.

It's a little easier nowadays.

A little bit easier now, but still, yeah.

But the goal is, you know, creating a cafe that's seed oil free. It's got good fruit, good coffees, good environment, just like happy, positive vibes. Like it's yellow, it's bright, it's like super positive affirmations everywhere.

Yeah.

Um, so that's been a cool process.

Yeah. And, and tell me about the paraxanthine drink. Is—

yeah, yeah, yeah. So I think, um, yeah, like I said, wanting to create something that's healthy and just available for people. And it's called Foreign Waters.

Foreign Waters.

Foreign Waters. Yeah. And it's an electrolyte energy drink. Um, we combine like hydration, vitamins, paraxanthine, minerals. Right now it's just in a packet. You put it in your water. We're coming out with 4 new flavors right now.

You have to fire me up on some. I hope there's some in that bag for me.

Oh, we brought you. Yeah.

Okay, good.

I would love to hear what you think about it.

I will be the judge of this. Exactly. Yeah.

I mean, I'd be stoked to hear what you think about the ingredients. Yeah. We have an excellent team and we're trying to bring like really high quality ingredients, which is hard because people don't want to pay a lot of money for things, it turns out.

Yeah, but you know, I love these passion projects that turn, you know, passion turned entrepreneurialism, you know. I'm a capitalist too, and I really wish the biggest, most profitable, impactful brands in the world were in service to humanity. You know, they really cared about what was going into the bodies that they're serving instead of— the chemicals and synthetics and pharmaceuticals. I mean, you can make a— you can make money doing that too. Um, but there's no reason to not find a path to make a better, you know, better place for humanity and, and be a capitalist at the same time. It's— one is not evil. So the love of money is the root of all evil, not, not money. Yeah. And it sounds like your journey really shaped your entrepreneurial path.

100%. Yeah.

And, you know, you've had a lot of struggles and overcome a lot of things, especially going from being such a highly regarded and performing professional to then, you know, essentially being told that you're not who you are anymore. Coming back from that, it's no surprise to me that you've reframed that journey. And I mean, I think you're going to be really successful in all these. I just feel it.

Thank you.

Appreciate it.

Yeah.

But so how does my audience, if they wanna know more about you, how do they find you?

Yeah, mostly active on social media. Koa Smith on Instagram, it's Koa Smith on YouTube and TikTok.

Okay.

And yeah, we're playing that game.

Yeah. You gotta play that game.

You gotta play that game, right? Yeah. But I bring a lot of like my wisdom and insights that I learned from the ocean. Try to just pepper that through my entire social media. I have my own school. It's called The Way of the Surfer.

Wow.

Where I'm starting to like— I'm starting to try to put all these things that I've learned that, that help me just feel connected and good, like guided breathwork, simple guided diet. Like I'm just—

what's your diet look like?

Like, yeah, just whole foods. Yeah, I mean, I'm to the point where I feel so strong that if I—

whoa—

if I have chips, it's not gonna like destroy me, right? Right. If I eat bread, I'm gonna be okay. There was a time though where I was like so sensitive to everything, right? But a lot of grass-fed steak— I mean, I followed Paul Saladino's program for like 6 months and I felt the strongest best I've ever felt. I feel like it healed a lot for me, but now it's like a little bit more balanced with a lot of fruit, a lot of veg— not a lot of vegetables, but sweet potatoes, a little bit veggies, a lot of steak.

Yeah, no, that's great. I mean, it sounds very much the way that I eat. So I wind down all my podcasts by asking my guests the same question, and there's no right or wrong answer to this question, but What does it mean to you to be an ultimate human?

To be an ultimate human, I feel like the pursuit, the pursuit of being an ultimate human makes you an ultimate human. Where you are constantly open to new potentials. You're constantly exploring your own potential and you're not letting fear restrain you in this life. I don't know if that's a word, but you know what I mean.

It is, yeah. Yeah, I mean, we talked about how fear narrows our ability to make decisions.

Yeah.

You know, I think it makes everything worse and there's no way to go through life without it. So we've got to figure out ways to manage it.

Yeah.

And harness it.

Thanks to people like you, we're gonna, in the next 5 to 10 years, we're gonna we're gonna learn what an unlimited human is.

Yeah, yeah.

And like, what are we capable of? And I think that, that's the, the mission right now. It's like, yeah, what if we were truly trusting, unlimited, doing all the right things and aligned? What are we capable of? And I mean, I go back to like the ancient Hawaiians and the way that they lived. They were like perfectly in balance with life. And a lot of cultures had psychedelics in it. Ancient Hawaiians, I think they had one light psychedelic, but they also had kava, which would like relax them a little bit. But they were so connected, and they were— there's stories of like people being able to communicate from island to island with telepathy. And like, there's these— this next level of connection and human ability that becomes accessible when you're— when you are living in that natural flow. So I'm interested to see in the next, like, 10 years what we all discover of, like, what is an unlimited human?

Yeah, that's great, man. That's maybe one of the best answers I've gotten on my podcast.

Thank you.

Koa, thank you for coming on the Ultimate Human Podcast, man. You're a legend. Thank you. I think your story is going to resonate a lot with my audience. And until next time, guys, that's just science.