Shawn Ryan: Beating Addiction, Military Industrial Complex, Trump Presidency | TUH #113

Pharmaceutical companies and the food companies basically paying off the FDA politicians to vote a certain way. Same thing with war. Vote this way. We want to prolong this war. We're going to develop more supplies for it.

It just makes you wonder if any of the elites have our best interests at heart. Because in our industrial food supply, the majority of our nutritional research is funded by big pharma.

I don't think it's about ending it, but it's business.

You were dealing with some pretty heavy mental illness. It's still just not in vogue to ask for help.

Everything that you've worked so hard to accomplish, you're at apex of what you do. And now nobody cares because you're not in that anymore. There goes my whole identity. You have to learn how to reinvent yourself. They call it an ego death.

Tens of thousands of our military men and women that are permanently on the chemical hamster wheel, which is further destroying their life. Why are we preventing people from accessing these kinds of therapies?

What really did the trick was psychedelics. The most profound experience of my entire life. And I don't say that lightly for.

You and military men and women that are in your group, what does this election mean to you?

Part of the reason we got to where we were is because people in this country are scared to.

Ultimately. Today, we are thrilled to have a remarkable guest on the Ultimate Human podcast, Sean Ryan. Sean's journey is one of resilience, purpose and relentless dedication. From his days as a Navy SEAL and a CIA contractor to becoming a powerful voice in the veteran mental health community. Through his acclaimed show, the Shawn Ryan show, he's given a voice to the raw experiences of veterans, shedding light on PTSD and the healing potential of alternative therapies like psychedelics. Today, Sean will take us deeper into his story. He's going to share the profound ways that his spiritual journey, mental health advocacy and commitment to self resilience have shaped his life and his mission. Join us as we uncover powerful insights into what it truly means to be an ultimate human. Hey guys, welcome back to the Ultimate Human Podcast. I'm your host, human biologist Gary Brucker. Where we go down the road of everything. Wellness, longevity, anti aging, biohacking, and everything in between. And every once in a while, I am blessed enough to have a truly iconic guest on the podcast. Not just a guest that is known to the world, but a guest that has had experiences in life that are just so uncommon, but yet so profound. And today is one of those rare moments on the Ultimate Human where We get to have a really, really impactful guest with an incredibly special and not very common background. Welcome to the podcast, Sean Ryan.

Hey, thank you. It's an honor to be here.

It's an honor to have you, man, you know, you, military icon, you know, your, the work that you do for veterans, the awareness of you brought to post traumatic stress disorder, and, and, and even being very authentic about your own journey, you know, I find it very, very inspiring. And you know, if you've ever watched my podcast and my audience knows and it sounds like I'm just repeating the same old line, but so often the people that I have on this podcast that I feel are making the greatest impact in the world are people that have solved a problem in their life, right? And whether it's post traumatic stress disorder or, you know, alcohol addiction or a relationship issue, or they had chronic Lyme disease or whatever it was, and they, and they solved that issue. And because of that journey, they're making a massive impact in the world. And I think you are definitely one of those people that turned a very storied, you know, military career into an impactful message. And I, and I just want to say, on the eve of Veterans Day, what Veterans day is the 11th. What's today? Okay, so it's March 8th. I mean, it's, I can't think of a more impactful guest to have on the podcast. So I'm just, I'm so excited. And sometimes, you know, I tell my, I tell my friends and family this all the time. Like I, I don't feel like I work a day in my life because I really get to sit down with inspiring people like, like yourself. And so I've watched a lot of your podcasts. I mean, lots of people have watched a lot of your podcasts. And this is a very self serving question, but of all these incredible military stories, incredible feats that you've had on your podcast, what is the, the biggest standout for you?

If there was guest wise or, or, or subject wise or I would say.

Let'S do guest wise and then let's go into subject wise.

I mean, guest wise. Military guys, man, there's so, it's really, there's so many.

That's what I was saying.

Like, that's hard. That's a really hard question.

We were actually just talking about the, this, the sniper that did a 2.1 mile shot and, and, and made a kill. I mean, these are the kinds of stories you'll find on his podcast. If you're not familiar with Shawn Ryan, you should be. And just the infinite amount of complexity of that, you know, a 10 second bullet trajectory. But you've had so many of these icons on and you even started a foundation to preserve these stories, right?

I didn't start a foundation. I help with a couple of different nonprofits. But I think the, I think there's been a couple. There's been a lot of really big impactful stories on the show. So I don't want to, I don't want to say my favorite one because that one. But some of the most impactful ones that I think there were was earlier on in my podcast. I had this guy on dj shipley, seal team 6 guy really like poured his heart and soul out and I mean, talked about his suicide attempts, talked about his infidelity and the challenges that his wife and him went through. Talked about. He talked about a lot of stuff that, that, that, that, that is really important that it's, it's a peek behind the curtain that nobody gets to look at. And another guy that I think is, is, you gotta meet D.J. by the way. You guys would get along really, really good.

See a science nerd.

He's a, he's a health nerd.

Is he?

Okay?

He's my guy.

And a beast.

Yeah.

But another guy, Tom Satterley, one of my favorite humans on the planet, he was, he was a Delta guy. I'm sure you've heard the story about Blackhawk down back in Mogadishu and his. A lot of people say that kind of the main character in that movie was Tom. Tom was a really junior Delta guy at the time and, and went through that talks about it very, very in depth, very detailed and, and served all the way through, you know, oefoif and just a, just a awesome human being. But, but there's been, there's been a, there's been a ton of.

Because I always wonder, you know, when you see these elite special forces and you were SEAL Team two and SEAL Team eight. Right. And for folks that don't know the difference, I mean we always Hear Seal Team 6. But what are the difference between the, the, the, the different SEAL teams and what are the, what are the numbers really indicating?

Especially so that, so the, yeah, the numbers. So you go through buds, everybody. You go through buds, you go through sqt, everybody becomes a seal. And then so all the odd number teams are on the west coast. All the even number teams are on the east coast out of Little Creek, Virginia or Dam Neck, west coast teams are all out of Coronado, California. And Then there's an SDV team that's out of Hawaii and that's like the mini submarines, but, and then Seal Team 6. So you get through, you go to a regular Seal Team and either go east or west coast or Hawaii and then you, I don't know what it is now, but you used to, you could basically kind of do one enlistment or two platoons. Two platoons means two deployments. And so after you do two deployments, then you can screen to go over development group. And so the screening is, is, it's kind of a series of things. It's an interview with your current command. It's, it's a physical fitness test. It's a, it's a, you go interview over at development group. And, and, and they kind of see, you know, if they think that you would be a good fit. And so that's, that's, if you're going to make it a career, that's the next step.

You go to the next step. And what is that, what is that kind of career when you say be a good fit, be a good fit to continue being a seal?

Well, so when you go to development group, you go through a whole nother training course as well. So, so, so you go to the SEAL teams, you, you do your deployments and then basically you try out. It's a tryout for the next level.

Wow.

And so, yeah, so there's another level.

Above, like the seals. Yeah, and there's like the ultra seals. I mean, pretty much they're like super seals. You know, I, I, I've heard you, you know, talk about some of your real world experience. One in particular was Haiti, I believe, where you guys were, you know, patrolling at very low altitudes. And I mean, Hollywood has kind of sensationalized that. But this was a very troubled part of the world, you know, at that period of time, and a very ruthless part of the world. And I don't think that they really wanted us to, to be there. Um, and can you talk a little bit about that experience for, you know, for folks that have never actually faced combat experience? To me it's fascinating because I, I feel like you can train yourself for just about anything. But I would imagine that no mission goes exactly like you, you planned. I mean, you, you, you have to find yourself in a place of the unknown. And, and this place of the unknown has got to be one of the darkest, most frightening places, because usually the types of unknowns that someone with your career would find would be things that could end your life. Right. And it's a metaphor for business, and it's a metaphor for life. It's a metaphor for relationships because, you know, like, when a mother has a baby, there's no manual on how to raise the child. When, you know, when you get into a marriage, there's no manual on how to have a good marriage. We start a business. There's really no step by step manual on how to grow a business. And we, I think in life, we find ourselves in so many places of the unknown. Like, we started out with one intention. You guys go in with one mission, and then holy things don't go as planned. And maybe my exit strategy is now I don't have it any longer, and the support that I thought I was going to have is no longer with me. And, you know, I wonder if you could talk about that a little bit about when, when your training takes you to a place where you're outside of your background, you know, and your preparedness. I'm excited to offer you free access to my premium membership, the Rule Breakers. As a rule breaker, you'll be able to join me for monthly Q and A sessions, VIP access to all the challenges I host, and advanced access to my most exclusive content. To get your free 30 day trial of Rule BRCAS, head over to joinrulebrecas.com that's joinrulebrecas.com right now. Now let's get back to the ultimate human podcast.

In training. You want to talk.

No, I want to talk about in real life, real combat.

Okay.

Because you're, you're, you're one of the few that's actually seen real, real combat. And, and I was listening to some of your, you know, your Haiti stories in them, and they were just terrifying about, you know, how roadside bombs were taking out your guys and, and you're flying at very low levels, which is very dangerous. You know, I imagine small arms fire could get to you at those, at those levels. So, I mean, you're, you're in a constant state of fight or flight. I'd love it if you could talk about a situation that you found yourself in where you were truly in that unknown. Like, I didn't expect this. Maybe I didn't train for this. Maybe the exit I planned is cut off. And now what, what do I do?

Yeah, there's a lot of those.

So I was hoping there was only like one or two, but no, there's.

A lot of them. But yeah, you know, I, I actually, I didn't, I didn't do a whole lot in Haiti. It was, it was 2004, there was a lot of civil unrest there. Aristide was the president at the time. He got yanked out. What me? I would have loved to have yanked him out.

Yeah. One of your guys yank him out?

Yeah, I think it was, I think it was Team six. Okay. But we were basically going to all these outer cities in Haiti to kind of get a pulse on what the rest of the country was like outside of Port au Prince, the capital. And it was just. There was, I mean, no shots were fired, but a lot of prisons were not functioning and prisoners were, you know, criminals were just everywhere. There were a lot of bodies kind of floating around and stuff on the shore. But, but the majority of my content combat stuff was all Afghanistan, Iraq, Yemen. And so what's one I haven't talked about in a while? We did this one. I was at, this is actually when I was at the CIA. We were at a. I think it was around 2012 time frame. I don't know how.

Because after the SEALs, you went into the CIA. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

So around 2012 time frame there. I don't know how closely you followed the war, but there was a area of Afghanistan it was supposed to be the, what was basically getting ready to happen there. It was going to be the biggest offensive push by the U.S. marine Corps since Fallujah. And everybody knows, everybody knows about Fallujah. Fallujah was by far the bloodiest, deadliest battle of, of both, both those wars. And so big push to go and, and kind of push Taliban, al Qaeda out of, out of the cities there.

When you say push him out of the cities, you're going in to kill them.

Yeah.

Okay.

Yeah. Not me. Yeah, I'm Agency. No.

You've never heard anybody back. No.

You're. We're back behind. No, we're in the thick of it. But, but you know, we are. That's not my job anymore, you know, is, is to go in and, and do that. Honestly, it never was. That's more of a infantry conventional type operation. But, but anyways, before that push even got kind of got started, it was just a couple teams of us embedded down there to, to do surveillance and do some liaison stuff with, with the local government down there and, and basically just collect intelligence. And so, but one thing that we, we kept up. Can I say that on here?

You can say up.

So there's, there's some things when you're working intelligence or surveillance that are just, it's just a no go. Don't ever be time, place, predictable. Don't. Don't take the same routes. Don't take the same routes at the same time. Don't. Don't have different routes into wherever you're going. And when I had gotten there, there was just a big bombing. It was horrible. A lot of. A lot of agency personnel died. Basically, they had a double agent come in, present a birthday cake to the Chief of Station. A lot of. A lot of people at the agency get, like, kind of attached to. To their assets and emotionally.

And he was a true double agent. Yep. So he was trusted by the CIA.

The cake. Yep.

But he was. And he took himself out too.

Yeah. And he took out. Took out all the leadership. Took down.

Oh, my God.

Took. Took a lot of people out. And so that had just happened when I showed up here and I had said, hey, we're time and place predictable. The are we doing.

Yeah.

And of course, nobody wanted to listen because when people like me come around for those type of operations, a lot of times I think we get in the way. But there's a reason we're there. That's why. And nobody wanted to listen. Next morning, we got up, boom. There's like 100 and something Taliban fighters on the other side of the river. They know exactly where our compound is. So they. They started hidden the compound, a little house.

Woke up in the morning, you're in a little house. Yep. 100 heavily armed fighters out there, and.

Shots just start coming through the house, and there's only a couple of us. And so the reason we knew there was over 100 Taliban fighters is because we had drones on station and they were reporting in. And so that wound up going until about midnight that night. They started maneuvering around. They got in this big probably 10, 15 story building, started shooting at us from over there, and nobody would come get us, so.

Wow. Why not?

Yeah, I thought that's a. That's a great question.

Yeah.

But it just wound up being, wow. We didn't have a lot of supplies.

Meaning a lot of bullets. Bullets.

Oh, we didn't have a lot of anything. And. Yeah, so it was a lot of switching. Switching out people on the roof and. And burning classified materials and thinking, holy, we're gonna die here. I knew this was coming. We were time and place predictable. And the. The British actually wound up coming in around midnight to. To get our asses out of British Special Forces. Just British army, not British Special Forces. The big. The big machine rolled through the town and got our asses out of there.

Wow. Now, how do you. How were you communicating with them? I mean, how did.

Radios.

Sharing intelligence. You were.

Well, there was a. So remember, there were. They were getting ready for the biggest offensive push since Fallujah. So there was. There were some Americans around. There was a big. There was a big kind of ISAF base close by that had Polish Special Forces. Those guys were going out, getting some, like, every night, multiple times a night, really. And then.

And just getting engaged.

Yeah. They were. I don't know what they were doing.

Yeah.

But they were going out a lot.

Okay.

And. And. And then big Brit base. So the British. British army came and. And pulled us out of there.

Thank God.

But. But when I could go in.

But they were. You were able to hold off a hundred armed soldiers for. On dusk. I mean, daylight today.

It wasn't like. It wasn't like they were, like, right outside the door. You know, we couldn't. We couldn't even see the hundred Taliban fighters who were amassing on the other side of this river that we were on. It was. It was. We started taking contact. Then they started. Then they infiltrated that building that I was telling you about. There. You can find this. I should find the clip and send it to you.

Wow.

But. But they were hitting us from that building, and then they were sending teams around kind of this neighborhood. We were kind of like in a. It sounds weird, but it's the only way to really describe it in terms that Americans would be able to kind of understand it. It would be kind of like a small gated community, but we only have one little section of it. And so they were. They had guys coming around the walls, like, trying to figure out exactly, you know, which little area was ours. And then. And then when they pinpointed it, they got on that massive building and started shooting RPGs, small arms fire.

RPGs.

Yeah. They sent the local. We sent some Afghan forces to go try to take care of it. And they're dropping grenades off the top story of the building, trying to kill those guys who were coming up to get them.

And. And.

Yeah.

Wow. And. And, you know, I think for people that weren't really close to that war, following that war, I mean, most of us get our information from the media, which is probably 2% of that is accurate. Yeah. I'm giving them.

I'm giving them a generous.

I'm giving him a win. You know, I'm feeling kind of bad for him in the wake of what just happened, so.

Oh, don't feel bad.

Yeah. You haven't sent any flowers out. Oh, dear. No.

I'm trolling all the Mainstream now. I know earlier I like trolling them now.

Yeah. You've never watched, you never watched so much MSNBC in your life, have you?

No.

Oh, man, that's okay. If you gloat over the, over the meltdowns, it's all right to, it's hard to take, take a victory lap. But you know, when, when I, I think a lot of times, you know, over here, you know, the populace thinks of, you know, the Afghan army is, you know, they're like a bunch of just ragtag K with the bandana, barely know how to shoot a gun. You know, they're probably working in the supermarket and then at night they're fighting and, and you know, as, as I watch your podcast and hear some of the stories and they're a lot more sophisticated and, and, and even a lot more trained than, than I think the, the average person believes that they are. I mean, it's, I, I think the average person, they see a lot of these videos on tv. Nobody's in the same uniform. Their trucks aren't, you know, everybody's kind of hanging on the back of a pickup truck and it just looked like a bunch of loosely gathered drinking buddies with a, with a rifle. But it's not like that.

No, I mean, not at all. I mean, you gotta, you. I think something that Americans grossly underestimate is, is, is the Afghan army and the people that are fighting over there. And I think where they really mistake it is just because those people don't have, you know, they live without a lot of things doesn't mean they're fucking stupid or doesn't mean they're not effective and great. So, you know, I think a lot of Americans are like, oh, that's, that guy dresses like that. He doesn't have the proper equipment. He doesn't, he can't. Bullshit, man. Those people are extremely resourceful. They're very intelligent and, and, and they're very effective and, and I think that's a huge misnomer.

Right? Yeah. That they're just a bunch of dumb hillbillies.

There's also the experience too. I mean, you can take, you can take a guy like me that spent 14 years in and out of there. Well, 14 years in and out of there is nothing compared to just 14 years straight or two over 20 years straight or, or some of these older village elders that have been there since the Russians invaded and been through that, and then now all the way through this. I mean, I come home, you know, I do a six month deployment, I come home, the agency I go 45 days, maybe 60 days, come home. Those, they live there for 20 years. They don't, they don't go on vacation, they don't go home to their families back in the States where everything's fine. They're just gaining all of that experience throughout those years.

Right.

So their commandos are more experienced than ours.

Wow. I think that's a real level set as to what we face, because I think it was always shocking when we would hear these stories of mass casualties or so many, you know, of our, our military men and women, you know, not coming home. And you go, how. How are we not just steamrolling over these people? I mean, we're the largest military force on the globe. We're the most sophisticated, we're the highest, highest trained. And then we, we. This should have been a, you know, virtual walk in the park. Is that a lot? Because there's also a political war keeping you guys from doing what you really need to get done? Or is it because they were a lot more formidable than. Than you thought? Or then. Then our. Than our military brass thought? Can you, can you. So, like, I'm seeing, like, were we, Were we on. Did we underestimate them is basically what I'm saying, you know, Or I, I've also, again, through your podcast, I've seen a lot of stories where the guys on the ground, the, the, the fighting forces wanted to finish a job, but for political reasons, they had. They couldn't engage or they were redirected somewhere else. And, and it, you know, it seemed like there was this tug of war between the command at the very, very top sort of running things maybe out of Washington. And I don't profess to be a military scholar by any means, but, you know, running things out of Washington, you know, and then what was going on in the ground, and sometimes we just didn't give our guys the authority to just finish the job.

Yeah.

Would you agree with that?

Absolutely.

Yeah.

I think.

Is that part of why I just drug on and drug on and drug on?

Well, I think it drug on and drug on because war is a business. But in the beginning, I mean, I don't think. It's hard to say. I would say that the, that the disconnected upper brass of the military, the D.C. crowd, definitely underestimated the capabilities. Guys that are actually on the ground experiencing what's going on may be underestimated at the very beginning, but quickly became a new reality when you did see what they were capable of. So now what changed the war? I don't know exactly what the turning point was. But. But, you know, at the beginning, there were. It did seem to be that we were there for the right reasons. The re. The roes were loosened up. They made sense. They leaned on the benefit of the US Service member, you know, and. And at the beginning of the Afghanistan war, that was. That was a. A. And always should have been a special operations war. Very strategic, precise. Yes.

Yeah.

But, you know, at some point in time, the big machine wanted to come in. Then in came all the bureaucrats, and then the whole. Everything changed. And I think that. I think that change happened right around 2005. I think that Operation Red Wings, that was. If you see in the movie, the Lone Survivor, that was. That operation that time.

What was that one about?

That was. So there. They had inserted a team of snipers on a mountaintop to overwatch a valley. There was a HVT down there that they wanted or something. I can't remember exactly. Goat herder sent, went up the mountain, found the sniper team kind of by accident. They made a judgment call. Hey, let him go back. He went back. And then a whole army came and. And killed everybody on the sniper team except one guy who got away. We sent some helos in is. Is a qrf that's a quick reactionary force, kind of like a backup. And those helos got shot down. Was the biggest. The biggest loss in SEAL team history until extortion 17. So that operation.

And that was a SEAL team that was snipers. They were just what, just overpowered?

Yeah, they were. They were. There was. I mean, there was only four of them. You know, wow. Danny Dietz, Matt Axelson, Murphy, Lieutenant Mike Murphy, and then Marcus Luttrell, who was a survivor.

Wow. And then.

And then the hilos that got shot down to come in to come and reinforce those guys.

Wow.

And so that was a lot of controversy around that operation within the SEAL Teams and within Special Operations. My team was actually the one that went in to relieve those guys. Seal team 2 went in to relieve team 10 after that had happened, and. And they just shut down all. All operations, it seemed like.

What do you mean?

When I went. I mean, we just kept. We.

We would.

Kept putting. Putting in these packages for operations, going after people, and it was. Everything was getting denied. And I just being there at that time and knowing what everybody was doing before then versus after that may have been a turning point. It did get very political. There was a lot of politics being played between upper leadership at the SEAL teams versus socom. And I think that may have been part of it. The other thing I think that happened is, is Dick Cheney and Halliburton.

Really?

Oh, yeah.

Wow. Because you said, you know, war is a business.

War business.

And sadly, you know, there is a military industrial complex.

Oh, yeah.

And a lot of it's privatized. And I don't think that, you know, most of America is even aware of the money that's made from foreign wars. I mean, you know, you often wonder, like, what is our interest and just continuing these endless wars. I mean, we. We've. We've gotten so many of them in the last three years, and I'm sure you have an opinion on that, and I'd love to hear it. We didn't have any for. For four years, and then now all of a sudden, you've got conflicts in Israel and you. You've got, you know, conflicts in Iran and you've got conflicts in, obviously in Russia and Ukraine. And it seems like the whole world's going to hell in the hand basket quick. And we pull out Afghanistan, we leave $83 billion of our military equipment, which I saw they be kind enough to do the. We pull out Afghanistan, we leave $83 billion of our military equipment, which I saw the parade that they be. Were kind enough to do the other day. I mean, and. But this. This military industrial complex, I mean, what. What's behind that? Who's. Who's driving the. The private companies are. That are.

I mean, it's. It's. Yeah, that's. That's who's driving it. I mean, back then, you got to look at where. Dick Chicktain. Dick Cheney.

You can just call him Dick.

Yeah, he is a dick, isn't it?

But, yeah, so if you just want to say Dick, I mean, we'll. We'll know who it is. You can even call him the Dick. Big Dick.

But he was CEO of Halliburton, and Halliburton was the logistics company. Halliburton, KBR is, was the logistics company that put in all logistics for operation Iraqi Freedom and. And the Afghanistan war. And so what does that mean? That means. That means they are the ones building all of the barracks. They're building the chow halls. Any. Any infrastructure that needs building. KBR builds it. KBR delivers the mail. KBR cooks the food. KBR cleans, has the cleaning crews. KBR does, has the fuel points. They deliver the fuel. They have. Every possible logistical thing you can think of was done for war. KBR in two different wars. And the Vice President of the United States was the former CEO of Calibur when that happened. Wow. So now you can see, you know, wow, the conflict of interest.

I mean we see, we see the same thing. You know, I'm much more cognizant of the food supply in our country, but it just makes you wonder if any of the elites have our best interests at heart. Because, you know, in our, in our industrial food supply, the majority of our nutritional research is funded by big food, big pharma, which is what we were talking about earlier. That's why lucky charms are listed as more nutritious than grass fed steak. You know, the majority of our research that get us gets approved through the Food and Drug Administration, you know, funded by big Pharma, which actually leads to the drugs. The food makes us sick and the drugs fix what the food, well, they prolong what the food causes. That's why we have 65, almost 70% of our diet coming from highly processed foods. You know, because you, when I think when private enterprise is allowed to influence public policy, especially in war, I mean people are dying for that. You know, I had a podcast guest on the other day that said, you know, we've privatized the profits, but we socialize the expense, meaning the profits go to private enterprise, but the expense goes to the American taxpayer, expense goes to the people. And you see this over and over again. You see that in the pandemic, you know, where did the, where did the profits go? Who picked up the bill? Yeah, when we know where the profits went and the, you know, the, the taxpayer picked up the bill and I just didn't have as much of, you know, non myopic view into, into wartime. But it doesn't, it doesn't surprise me that, you know, you have people that stand to make billions of dollars, you know, off of a war that, you know, is either unnecessary or could have then been done. Yeah, much different way.

I mean, you know, think about it.

I mean, Ukraine's got to be the same thing. I still haven't figured out Ukraine.

Yeah, I'd love to hear your. It's the same thing. I mean, you're talking about the pharmaceutical companies and the food companies basically paying off what the FDA politicians to vote a certain way. Same thing with war. Right. So you got, I mean, oh, we left all those helicopters and, and tanks and everything over in Afghanistan. Right. You don't think that, I don't know, Lockheed Martin, Northrop Grumman, Boeing Raytheon, all these places were like, oh, just leave that shit there. We'll build you new ones, you know, equipment, extra equipment. Cool. Send that over to Ukraine, we'll build you some new shit, you know what I mean? And so that's how it happens. It's, hey, vote this way. We want to prolong this war. It needs. We. We're going to develop more supplies for it.

Yeah. How do we, how we spend $110 billion or maybe even more, I've even heard $200 billion. And things are at a stalemate. Like, what do we get for $110 billion? Did we get any, any, any shift in the dynamic of the conflict, or do we just basically take the can down the road and we still have this prolonged stalemate?

I don't think it's about ending it, you know, I think it's about its business. And so it's, it's, it's, it's all of these companies selling their technology and their, their, their wartime products, their weapons, their bullets, their, their radios, jammers, logistics companies, all of that. You know, they want the war to continue moving on so that. Because that's their business. And if there is no war, these guys aren't making any money.

It's like, what do we get for $110 billion? Did we get any, any, any shift in the dynamic of the conflict, or do we just basically take the can down the road and we still have this prolonged stalemate?

I don't think it's about ending it, you know, I think it's about its business. And so it's, it's, it's, it's all of these companies selling their technology and their, their, their respective research and development.

Do you think Trump's going to put an end to that? I know you've got to be pretty pleased with it.

I hope so.

Events of the last week, some big.

Promises, but, I mean, look, it's already happening. I mean, it's been, what, two, three days since the election?

Yeah.

And Hamas has already said, we're done, we're done. I saw that come out in Newsweek.

Yeah. And I'm hoping that we can believe those. Yeah. You know, some of these positive messages that, you know, Hamas is saying, hey, we're, we're gonna close up shop and, and Iran is going to, you know, engage in ceasefire talks right away. I mean, those are really positive things because, you know, I think, you know, again, I am not a war historian or, you know, you know, profess to know anything about wartime strategy, but, you know, when you, when you have these, these big countries and they think that there's feckless leadership, there's like an open you know, an open door where there's no consequences. At least they know that there's going to be consequences, consequences. And so they're like, you know, we don't want any part of that. Yeah, we got, you know, two, three months until shit's really gonna hit the fan for us. Let's come and have, you know, peace talks.

Yeah, I mean, Putin's already wanting to come to the table with negotiations. I mean, when I interviewed Trump, he said that war would be done before he steps into office.

So I remember he said that I was a bold statement. I, I mean, I know that is.

A wartime products, their weapons, their bullets, their, their radios, jammers, logistics companies, all of that. You know, they want the war to continue moving on so that, because that's their business. And if there is no war, these guys aren't making any money. It's just back to research and development.

Do you think Trump's going to put an end to that? I know you've got to be pretty pleased with it.

I hope so, man.

Events of the last week, some big.

Promises, but I mean, look, it's all bold, bold statement.

I mean, because the mullahs in Iran, Putin, they don't seem already happening.

I mean, it's been what, two, three days since the election.

Yeah, like they've been to anybody else's agenda. Now they'll bend to a 2x4 to the face, but I don't think that, you know, really tough talk like, and.

Hamas has already said we're done, we're, we're done. I saw that come out.

Don't. I know. I really don't think that those things really frighten them. Yeah. So to see them move this fast is, is, is pretty interesting. So, I mean, what do you have? Are you aware that we have US Military special forces in, involved in those conflicts right now? I know they're in the region, but they say that we don't have our special forces and our men and women in harm's way. And you're not seeing like the death tolls clicking on, on the media, but I can't imagine that there's conflicts of this scale and that our men and women are not involved.

I'm sure there's a couple. Okay, but there's definitely going to be a couple in there, but I don't, I don't think that there are a's, a large majority of, of U. S. Personnel in harm's way and in Ukraine.

Well, at least I'm happy to hear that. Are you hopeful that this thing can be resolved. I mean, from where you.

Yeah, 100.

And, and how does it end? They, they annex some territory to Russia and, and Ukraine slightly shrinks in size. They have to leave NATO. Like, I'm always cured.

Newsweek.

Yeah. And I'm hoping that we can believe those, you know, some of these positive messages that, you know, Hamas is saying, hey, we're, we're going to close up shop and, and Iran is going to, you know, engage in ceasefire talks right away. I mean, those are really positive things because, you know, I think, you know, again, I am not a war historian or, you know, you know, profess to know anything about wartime strategy, but, you know, when you, when you have these, these big countries and they think that there's feckless leadership, there's like an open, you know, an open door with. There's no consequences, at least to figure out, like, you know, there, there sometimes seems to be such an easy solution, and that's a very myopic view to ending this war. And you'd think, why didn't somebody think of that for the last several years while we were funneling hundreds of billions of dollars.

Yeah, I don't, you know, I think we've been lied to about the reasons that we're over there. So I don't know, you know, exactly.

What it's going to, there's going to be consequences. And so, like, you know, we don't want any part of that.

Yeah.

You know, two, three months until it ended.

But, but I do think that I've read and I've interviewed some people that say that, that the, the, the, the.

Shit'S really going to hit the fan for us. Let's come and have, you know, peace talks.

The region that is being fought over is extremely rich and natural.

Yeah.

I mean, Putin's already wanting to come to the table with negotiations. I mean, when I interviewed Trump, he said that war would be done before he steps into office. Gas. And so, you know, while it's kind of funny, while the Democrats all are, you know, pro Ukraine, let's go, we got to do this. I think the real reason that we are there or that we are aiding that is because I think that if Ukraine.

So I remember he said that. I was like, that is a bold statement.

I know.

I mean, I know that is a.

Holds on to that we will be the ones to build the infrastructure to pipe in all the natural gas into Europe. Now, if you remember, before that was Russia, it was piping in all that natural gas to Europe. And Trump had even said, you Guys are stupid. Your enemy is supplying you with your energy supply. So, so while, you know this seems. While the Democrats or the previous administration or whatever the you want to call it, you know, paints it out as some kind of humanitarian mission, I think the real reason that we were there is to actually build the infrastructure around those natural gas reserves to pump that into Europe because that boosts our economy. That is, I mean whether you agree with it or not, hey, big surprise US is involved in another oil war.

Right.

Or you know, I guess not this time.

Well, I mean look at the Keystone pipelines.

I mean but, but it also puts a major dent in Russia's economy because if they're not supplying all of Europe with natural gas from, from their pipeline and US Builds the infrastructure in Ukraine to pipe in the natural gas, well then I mean that's, that would bold, bold statement.

I mean because the mullahs in Iran, Putin, they don't seem like they bend to anybody else's agenda now. They'll bend to a two by four to the face. But I don't think that, you know, really tough talk like don't. I know. I really don't think that those things really frighten them. Yeah. So to see them move to be.

That would be amazing for our economy.

Right.

You know, I don't, I think that.

Would be a hard seller being energy independent on our own soil.

Well, which is not necessarily because.

Because fast is, is. Is pretty interesting. So I mean what do you have? Are you aware that we have U. S. Military, special forces in. Involved in those.

What I'm saying is we own the. Basically what I'm saying is because of all the money that we dumped into Ukraine and because of all the, you.

Know, those conflicts right now, I know they're in the region but they say.

That because how involved we've been in that war, we have to be paid back somehow. We didn't just give them however, I hope not hundred hundreds of billions. Hopefully.

Yeah, hopefully got an eye on you.

But you know that might seem like chump change compared to the natural gas that's going to feed Europe that we're going to take control.

We don't have our special forces and our men and women in harm's way and you're not seeing like the death tolls. Clicking on love.

And so I think that that plays a little bit more of a role than people might be aware of than just hey, this is, I mean look it's, I mean but look what Russia did. They're trying to take land that doesn't belong to them.

Right. And, and I remember when they were. I, I still remember very vividly when they were amassing along the border and I was like on the media. But I can't imagine that there's conflicts of this scale and that our men and women are not involved.

I'm sure there's a couple.

Okay.

But there's definitely going to be a couple in there. But I don't, I don't think that there are a's. A large majority.

What do you think is going on? They didn't really hide it. It wasn't a clandestine, like, you know, in the dark of night kind of, you know, surprise raid. I mean, they built forces up right on that border. Yeah. For months. And I, I, well, of, of US.

Personnel in harm's way.

And in Ukraine, I mean, I remember Biden talking about it, but that's probably not a good reference. But, you know, he was. Well, at least I'm happy to hear that. Are you hopeful that this thing can be resolved? I mean, from where. Yeah.

100.

Like you could just do a small incursion or whatever he was, whatever he, he was saying. But it seemed like. And, and, and how does it end? They, they annex some territory to Russia and, and Ukraine slightly shrinks in size. They have to leave NATO. Like, I'm always curious, you know, we were more aware what was about to happen that we were like shocked. Oh my gosh, I can't believe that they actually went deris. To figure out like, you know, there, there sometimes seems to be such an easy solution, and that's of Ukraine. And they've been putting tanks on the border for the last four months.

Yeah.

And you know, I always know that there's some more than meets the eye. And when I meet people that have profound depth of understanding and knowledge, like, you know, I listen to Bobby Kennedy talk about the, the history of, of how, you know, in, in his words, the US really put them in a position to have no choice. And it's such a unique perspective, but it's, he, he lays things out in such a beautiful manner about, you know, how he refused it's very myopic view to ending this war. And you'd think certain treaties and they, we had, we had made agreements with Russia not to allow certain things to happen, like certain countries to join NATO. And then when we recanted on those, you know, we're somehow like, surprised that they're behaving that way. And I, you know, I didn't intend to start this podcast and talk about the Ukraine war. Seriously, I'm like, way out of my topic zone, but, you know, just to have you on here and get some, Some, some insight into it, but I want to rewind the, the clock a little. Why didn't somebody think of that for the last several years while we were funneling hundreds of billions of dollars?

Yeah, I don't, you know, I think we've been lied to about the reasons that we're over there. So I don't know, you know, exactly what it's going to take to end it. But, but I do think that I've.

Read a bit and get, and get back to, you know, your story, because your story is fascinating to me that when you got out of the military and, and you were dealing, and I've.

Interviewed some people that say that, that the, the.

The. With some pretty heavy issues. Mental. Mental illness, you know, some psychological issues. And we were talking in the kitchen before we came in here about how it's. It's still just not in vogue to ask for help. Still not in vogue to, you know, raise your hand and say, I'm not okay. It's usually the families or the spouses or, you know, someone close to them that really tries to reach out and get them help. And I think there has to be a dynamic between somebody.

The region that is being fought over is extremely rich in natural gas. And so, you know, while it's kind of funny, while the Democrats all are, you know, pro Ukraine. Let's go. We got to do this. I think the real reason that we.

That is so highly trained, like a member of a SEAL team and is.

Are there or that we are aiding that is because I think that if.

Ukraine has seen that kind of combat, I mean, these, these are the men of men. Right. And then to come back and have to be vulnerable. I wondered if you, if you talk a little bit, because you've been very vocal about PTSD and very vocal about your journey, and I wonder if you might even talk about your journey and some of the issues that you solve. I love your psilocybin journey, by the way.

I mean, holds on to that. We will be the ones to build the infrastructure to pipe in all the natural gas into Europe. Now, if you remember, before that was Russia that was piping in all that.

I'm. I am fully on board for the psychedelics for the, you know, versus the chemicals, synthetics, the pharmaceuticals and some of the other treatments that we can do ketamine under medical supervision to, to address the severe inflammatory conditions in, in the Brains of a lot of these. These soldiers that are really causing them to be tormented inside of their own bodies.

Yeah. So if you.

If, if you wouldn't mind, I mean, I'd love to talk a little bit about your. Your journey with that and how you solved that problem.

Sure. Where would you like me to start? Do you want to talk about how bad it got?

Yeah, Yeah. I want you to talk about. As comfortable as you are talking about.

How natural gas, Europe and Trump had even said, you guys are stupid. Your enemy is supplying you with your energy supply. So, so while, you know, this seems. While the Democrats or the previous administration or whatever the you want to call it, you know, paints it out as some kind of humanitarian mission, I think the real reason that we were there is to actually build the infrastructure that it got.

Because that's. That's the problem. Yeah. Right. And. And the good news is that, I mean, here you are today. Right.

So. Yeah, you know, I think there's just a. I mean, to kind of try to put it into a perspective that you might understand. I mean, it's very obviously, you've done. You've done extremely well. You're at the best of what you do, structure around those natural gas reserves to pump that into Europe because that boosts. You built a entire empire. That is extremely impressive.

Me?

Yeah.

Thank you. Wow. Now really kind of you.

Now I'm going to take all that away. Please don't right now. And you have to figure out how you're going to make a living, feed your family. What are you going to talk about? What are you going to tell people you do? You're proud of what you built, Right. So that all goes away and you're just nothing. You have no idea where you're going to take the rest of your life. You know, these guys, most of these guys are under 40 years old, you know, so they still have their whole life ahead of them. So you're dealing with that, number one, everything that you. That you've worked so hard to accomplish, all the cool stories. You're at the apex of what you do. Nobody's better. You've reached our economy. That is, I mean, whether you agree with it or not, hey, big surprise, US is involved in another oil war.

Right.

Or, you know, I guess not oil this time.

Keystone pipelines. I mean, but.

But it also puts a major dent in Russia. You've reached the ceiling.

Yeah.

You know, and now nobody cares because you're not in that anymore.

It's not relevant.

And that's, you know, I think you see that a lot with pro athletes when they retire, when they get hurt, when they're done, you know, it's like, well, there goes my whole identity. And so you have to. You have to learn how to reinvent yourself. On top of that, you're also dealing. You guys were talking about this earlier addiction to adrenaline and the fight or flight response. I mean, busy minds, you know, you, You. You're always in. I. I still love a good adrenaline rush. But, I mean, when you come out of a job like that and I don't know what the chemicals are, you would know a lot more about that than I would, obviously. But, you know, it becomes. That adrenaline dump becomes an addiction. And so you. You are subconsciously looking for ways to kind of fill that void when you're not on deployment. And then when deployments are all one of them, when they're all over just economy. Because if they're not supplying all of Europe with natural gas from. From their pipeline and US Builds the infrastructure in Ukraine to pipe in the natural gas, well, then, I mean, that's. That would be. That would be amazing for our economy. Is. It's a. It's you getting.

Right.

You know, I don't. I think that would be a hard.

So we're getting back being energy independent on our own soil.

Well, anxiety. Knowing that you're not gonna feel that again. You're not gonna feel that, that, that. It's not even a rush, man. It's. It's. I mean, when you. When you are involved in heavy combat, it is. I mean, it's just. It's primitive, man. It's prime, which is a concept because. Because what I'm saying is we own the. Basically, what I'm saying is I'm all. It's.

Yeah, it's.

There's nothing in the world like it. It is like. I mean, you are as weird as it sounds. It is because of all the money that we dumped into Ukraine and because of all the, you know, it's a amazing experience if you survive it and walk out of it. And that's all you want to talk about, and that's all you want to feel, and that's all you want to do. And so that's. Because how involved we've been in that war. We have to be paid back somehow. We didn't just give them. And that's. That's the reason I got out of the SEAL teams is I wasn't getting enough of it.

Really. Yeah.

That's a big reason why you weren't.

Being deployed as often I wasn't good.

I talked about Afghanistan earlier, you know, and that, that when I got there things had kind of changed. Started getting political bureaucrats, started getting in. However, I hope not 100 hundreds of billions. Hopefully.

Yeah, hopefully got an eye on you.

But you know, I mean when I went in, I wanted to go out every night, multiple times a night. All I, that's all I wanted to do. That might seem like chump change compared to the natural gas that's going to feed Europe that we're going to take controls, go on patrol. You mean go like go to go to war Patrol. Combat. Combat and love. And so I think that that plays a little bit more and I just, I wasn't getting enough doses of it. One.

That's incredible. Like I can, I, I, I mean.

The have a role than people might be aware of than just, hey, this is opposite.

I'm like, I want to go home. Well, but I mean, maybe because I don't have that training.

Yeah, I mean you get, you got to remember too. I mean it's years, it's, for me it was, I mean I joined the Navy, went through buds. BUDS is six months if you make it through for me without any hang ups. I mean look, it's, I mean, but let's. What Russia did, they're trying to take land that doesn't belong to them.

Right.

Almost nobody makes it without any hang ups. You're looking at a good.

And, and I remember when they were, I still remember very vividly when they were amassing along the border and I.

Was like eight months. I would say eight to nine months would be average just to get through buds. Then you go through sqt. That's SEAL qualification training. There's another four or five months, then you get to your SEAL team.

What do you think is going on? They didn't really hide it. It wasn't a clandestine like, you know.

You think you're a badass. Guess what? You're not. You got another year and a half of training at your ceiling in the.

Dark of night, kind of, you know, surprise raid. I mean they built forces up right.

On to go just to go to fucking war, you know. And so you're looking at a good three, three and a half years of training just to get the opportunity to go to war.

Wow.

So you're ready by the time or you think you're ready by the time you get there. But.

And so I'm kind of on that border. Yeah. For months. And I, I, well, going through back.

To what we were Talking about. I'm kind of going through like all the things that guys deal with. Then there's, then there is ptsd, which now they're saying Special Ops guys, it's called operators.

I mean, I remember Biden talking about it, but that's probably not a good reference. But, you know, he was syndrome.

They're kind of starting to transition that. But, you know, it's. It's survivor's guilt.

Like you could just do a small incursion or whatever he was, whatever he, he was saying.

But it seemed like all my friends that are now dead.

Oh, you know, we were more aware what was about to happen, that we were like shocked. Oh my gosh. I can't believe that they actually went.

I'm not saying me, but you know, people, oh, I had to kill a woman. Oh, I had to kill a kid. Oh, fuck. That person was probably innocent. You know, I mean, all the shows. So there's, so there's just the stuff you were talking about earlier with sleep. Nobody, nobody I know that comes from this job sleeps.

Right.

Or sleeps well.

And Ukraine and they've been putting tanks on the border for the last four months.

Yeah.

And.

And because you're. You're in that constant state of, of, for lack of a better term, paranoia, even though once you've done it for so long, it doesn't seem like paranoia.

You know, I always know that there's more than meets the eye. And when I meet people that have profound depth of understanding and knowledge, like, you know, I listened to Bobby Kennedy, the, The history of.

Of it's just life. And so when you even that long after. Yeah.

Wow.

And so, you know, when you get home, your identity has been stripped. You have all these chemical imbalances in your brain. You've seen more trauma than just about anybody on the planet.

And, and, and how, you know, in, in his words, the US really put.

Then your own injuries, you know, that you're fighting as well with you know, banged up knees or, or heaven forbid, amputees, you know, stuff like that. It's. These are all the things that. That are kind of going through your head. And so for me, when I left the agency, I was looking for that.

Address them in a position to have no choice. And it's such a unique perspective, but it's. He. He lays things out in such a beautiful manner about, you know, how he refused adrenaline.

And so I moved to Medellin, Colombia, and found that adrenaline by certain treaties and they.

We had, we had made agreements with Russia not to allow certain Things to happen.

Like getting involved in cocaine rings and.

What brought you to Medellin? You just went there?

Yeah, yeah, yeah, pretty much.

Okay.

And yeah, I was there for. Right about in and out for five years and. And realized I had a. A was really skirting the line there. OD'd a couple times and pulled through that. And I never even did drugs as a kid.

Did you do them? And, you know, it wasn't your military service. I mean, obviously you're not doing drugs in the military. No, it's. After you got out, it just. Just.

It just.

Life's just not exciting anymore. So you're down to certain countries to join NATO, and then when we recanted on those, you know, we're somehow like Medellin with a buddy of yours or something and.

Yeah, it started with a buddy. It started in. I started going to Cartagena with a buddy. And then. And then. And then I just started flying solo down there and started kind of building a lot of contacts and stuff, but.

God, surprised that they're behaving that way. And I, you know, I didn't intend to start this podcast and talk about the Ukraine war. Seriously. I'm like, way out of my topic zone, but, you know, just to have.

You really addicted to cocaine. Had two pretty close calls where I overdosed.

And this is just from. Just used it for too many days too often. It was too much coke all the time. Just go call.

I remember.

Go on here and get some. Some insight into it. But I want to rewind the. The clock a little.

I was always paranoid that I was. Turns out coke makes you paranoid, but who knows?

But thc. Same thing.

No, I. I remember my best friend who was with me down there. I would always get worried that I was.

There's a good friend.

Yeah.

Bit and get. And get back to, you know, your story, because your story is fascinating to me that when you got out of the military and. And you were dealing with some pretty heavy issues. Mental.

And he's dead now.

Okay.

But he said, you don't need to worry. You don't need to worry about your ODN on. If you're on speed, you don't need to worry that you're ODN unless things start to slow down. And I was like, huh, all right. I guess that makes sense. And then I remember the first time I felt it. Things started slowing down. My speech was like. Sounded like that scene on Old School where Will Ferrell's like, mental illness, you.

Know, some psychological issues. And we were talking in Mentioned before we came in here.

It's. It was. Everything just slowed down. My voice slowed down, my brain was moving faster than I could talk. I couldn't talk.

And. And really, you were really, really wired at the time.

Oh yeah.

About how it's. It's still just not in vogue to ask for help. Still not. So just your central nervous system was just absolutely.

Yep.

Frying done. And. And so the. The vision starts to narrow. Yep. Yep. Wow.

Vision barrel. The vision narrowed and. And then I woke up on the. On the floor of a club. Of a club?

Yeah. Wow. Not in vogue to, you know, raise your hand and say I'm not. Okay. It's usually the families or the spouses or, you know, someone close to them that really tries to reach out and get.

Woke up on the floor of a club that didn't do it. That was actually my very first time doing coke. But then. Then it started happen. Then it happened two more times after that them help.

And I think there has to be a dynamic between somebody years after that and.

And so I realized I have a problem. Had a problem. Left Columbia, kind of got ran out of there actually, but. But left there. Moved to Boca Raton, Florida and kind of kept at it there. Thought if I removed myself out of that environment that I would clean it up stateside, which. Which I didn't. And. And then there had a suicide attempt where I just. I just completely just kind of not kind of lost.

That is so highly trained like a member of a SEAL team and is. Has seen that kind of combat. I mean these. These are the men of men. Right. And then to come help.

I mean my routine. Gary, let's hope that you would get.

Out, that you would.

I just didn't care anymore, man. Like all my friends were still involved in the war. Either it in the SEAL teams or a development group or in the agency. And to hear like what those guys were involved in and what they were doing and I wasn't there.

Then why couldn't you have stayed? I mean, why was it your choice to leave?

It was. I mean it was my choice.

It was your choice.

And.

But then you also missed it.

Yeah, I missed it. And in. I really. I missed it for a long time and so it ruined all my family relationships just because I was. When I was. I was drinking more than a fifth of vodka a day.

I would wake up back and have to be vulnerable. I wondered if you. If you talk a little bit because you've been very vocal about PTSD and very vocal about your journey and I wonder if you might even talk about your journey and some of the issues that you solve. I love your psilocybin journey, by the way. I mean, I'm, I am fully on board for the psychedelics, for the, you know, versus the chemicals, synthetics, the pharmaceuticals and some of the other treatments that we can do. Ketamine under medical supervision.

My whole freezer was just completely packed with vodka mini bottles. My glove compartment, my car was packed with vodka mini bottles. Everywhere I went had flask or mini bottles. And, and that's how I would get through the day, drinking that and then.

Addition to, to address the severe inflammatory condition.

Night when I would go back home, I would just pull out a fifth and tug on that until. Until the lights were out. And while I was tugging on that, I would take ambient Xanax, Valium, Lorazepan.

Missions in, in the brains of a lot of these, These soldiers that are really causing them to be tormented inside.

Of hydrocodeine, anything I could to keep my mind from just going right all the time.

And how are you able to get that? Just dealers would put. Get their hands on it.

Well, I worked overseas and, you know, turns out that most countries you don't need a prescription to get whatever you want. So I would just go behind the counter and tell them what I want and throw it in a. And a shopping bag.

Their own bodies.

Yeah.

So if you, if, if you wouldn't mind, I mean, I'd love to talk a little bit about your, Your journey with that and how you solved that problem.

Sure. Where would you like me to skit and stock up and bring it all home? And, you know, I'd done that for years, and so I had stockpiles of it at home. And then, and then I was also, you know, when I did finally start to, to kind of get some help and I started going to therapy. I mean, I would get it prescribed. You know. Hey, can't sleep? Need some ambient. Here you go. Oh, here's some Selenor. Here you go. Here's this. Here you go. I mean, it wasn't. They weren't giving me everything I wanted, but they were definitely, you know.

Right.

I could get it.

What made you raise your hand?

What made me raise my major.

Raise your hand.

Start doing. To talk about how bad it got.

Yeah, Yeah. I want you to talk about as comfortable as you are talking about how bad it got, because that's, that's the problem. Yeah. Right. And. And good news is that, I mean, here you are today. Right.

So.

Yeah, enough are I want help.

A couple of things.

The.

You know, I think there's just a. I mean, to kind of try to put it into a perspective that you might. What got me out of Columbia is I went home to visit my family and. And I. When I started odn, I would call my dad and like, me and my dad are really understand. I mean, it's very obviously done. You've done extremely well. You're at the best at what you do. You built a entire empire. That is extremely impressive.

Me?

Yeah.

Thank you. Wow. Now, it's really kind of you.

Now I'm going to take all that away. Please don't right now. Close. And I would tell him, hey, Dad, I need to get the. Out of here. I'm not going to make it out of here. I wouldn't tell him what I was doing, but he was, you know, and he was worried and I went home to visit him and. In a super small town in Missouri and. And I. I don't even know what happened, man. I just. I know me and my dad were supposed to go to a Cardinals baseball game the next day and I. I must have blacked out and you OD'd again.

You took the drugs with you. You dropped them.

Yeah, I would bring them everywhere. I couldn't. Couldn't. And you have to figure out how you're going to make a living, feed your family. What are you going to talk about? What are you going to tell people you do? You're proud of what you built, right. So that all goes away and you're just nothing. You have no idea where you're going to take the rest of your life. You know, these guys. Most of these guys are under 40 years old, you know, so they still have their whole life ahead of them. So you're dealing with that. I can't sleep without. I can't. I can't sleep without them. I mean.

Oh, these are prescriptions, so you can take them through an airplane.

Number one. Everything that you. That you've worked so hard to accomplish, all the cool stories. You're at the apex of what you do. Nobody's better. You've reached. You've reached the ceiling.

Yeah.

You know, and now nobody cares because you're not in that anymore.

No. You weren't taking like coke and stuff, like.

No, no, no, no, no. Drug trafficking. Yeah, but. But I would. Yeah, I would just. I was like a walking pharmacy for benzos and opiates and. And sleeping pills. And I woke up and my dad was standing over my bed and he Was like tearing up and I, it's not relevant. And that's, you know, I think you see that a lot with pro athletes when they retire, when they get hurt, when they're done, you know, it's like, well, there goes my whole identity. And so you have to, you have to learn how to reinvent yourself. On top of that, you're also dealing. You guys were talking about this earlier addiction to adrenaline. And I just could tell he was like, he didn't know what the to do and, and he wanted me to get some help. And so at that point I wasn't going to get any help, but I was like, all right, maybe I should like move out of Columbia. And so I did. And then, and then the second kind of wake up call was my suicide attempt again. Don't really know what happened. I was a blue martini in Boca Raton, Florida. And the next minute I'm upstairs waking up in my bed alone in my whole house, smells like gasoline. Came downstairs, saw Glock on my bed or I'm sorry, on the couch, which I never. And it's not the Glock that I carry or carried for, for, for personal defense. It was something that I had pulled out of a safe, so probably was going to do something. The fight or flight response. I mean, busy minds, you know, you, you, you're always in. I, I still love a good adrenaline rush. But I mean when you come out of a job like that and I don't know what the chemicals are, you would know a lot more about that than I would, obviously. But you know, it becomes that adrenaline dump, becomes an addiction. And so you err and then, but.

You don't even remember that.

I don't. And then I walked out to my garage and I touched the garage door and I was hot to the touch and I was like, oh, what is that? Is there a fire in there? And I remember thinking if I open this door and there's a fire in there, it's going to get a big rush of oxygen. It's probably going to kill me. You are subconsciously looking for ways to kind of fill that void. So I opened it and my God. And nothing happened. But my car was running in there. And I drove an Audi A8 at the time and seat was all the way reclined back. So I, I pulled in the garage, closed the door, left the car running. When you're not on deployment and then when deployments are all. One of them, when they're all over is. It's a, it's. You get anxiety knowing that you're not gonna feel that again. You're not decided. I was. Lights out. Let the seat down. Somehow I woke up the. It was so hot that the exhaust melted a hole in the gas tank. And the gas tank was leaking onto the exhaust muffler.

Wow.

And there was like a little bitty, like fire in there. So. So I called my best friend, Dave Rutherford, and kind of told him, you know, the situation I was in. Then I called a really good friend of mine out of Boston who helps veterans. She's like an angel to a lot of people. Feel that, that, that. It's not even a rush, man. It's. It's. I mean, when you. When you are involved in heavy combat, it is. I mean, it's just. It's primitive, man. It's people named Peggy Matthews. And then I called my. My therapist and Boca and they were all like, yeah, you. That's what that was.

And so you think you pulled in prepared to do it, and then something.

Yeah.

Got you up and you just went upstairs and went to bed and just don't recall that.

I think that was. God.

And probably fumbled around the safe and got the gun out. And I think I thought about it.

This is what happened. Pulled in the garage, had an argument with somebody that. I'm all. It's. Yeah, it's. There's nothing in the world like it. It is like I cared about a lot. And then left the bar, pulled in the garage, was going to kill myself there. Went into the. Into the living room, pulled out the gun, took. I mean, you were. As weird as it sounds, it is a amazing experience if you survive it and walk out of it. And that's all. I took all my clothes off on the couch and then probably passed out there and then went upstairs to my bed at some point at the night. And so that was another wake up call. And. And so I made a promise to my therapist that I wouldn't drink vodka anymore. And so I had. I had you want to talk about, and that's all you want to feel, and that's all you want to do. And so that's successfully transitioned to wine.

Wow.

And so then. And I was good. You know, it. It. I started getting my life back together. I quit all the benzos.

By yourself. You were actually strong enough to get off of those by yourself. Really tough for the most part.

I got off all the benzos. I had. I had my emergency stash. So. Yeah. And. And then I met my wife. I mean, that's. That's the reason I got out of the SEAL teams is I wasn't getting enough of it.

Really? Yeah.

That's a big reason why you weren't.

Being deployed as often.

I wasn't. Good. I talked about Afghanistan earlier, you know, and that who's. Who's been sober for 14 or 15 years now. And, and that obviously helped a lot. And then, and then in the last three years were really, you know what? Really, that when I got there, things had kind of changed. Started getting political bureaucrats started getting in like did the trick was psychedelics.

Yeah. That I want to go down that road. Because you went out of the country to do this. And it wasn't just the silk.

I mean when I went in, I wanted to go out every night with Simon.

You did other, other treatments. Yeah, but I remember you describing it as pretty instant, like meaning the, the impact of the treatment multiple times.

And I, all I, that's all I.

Wanted to do and, and came back and just sort of knew the difference between what was poison and what wasn't. And you said, that's poisoning me. That's poisoning me. That's poison patrol.

You mean go like, go to. Go to war patrol? Combat.

Combat.

And, and I just, I wasn't getting enough doses of me.

But you just were clear about it. And so tell, talk a little bit about that journey because clearly you are in a very dark place. That's incredible. Like, I can, I, I, I mean the opposite. I'm like, I want to go home. Well, but I mean me, because I don't have that training.

Yeah, I mean, you gotta, you gotta remember too. I mean it's years, it's, for me, it was, you know, I joined.

Yeah.

So yeah, I just, I kept interviewing. I mean, you know, my interviews, I interview a lot of former colleagues and, and, and warrior elites, we'll call them that. And so, you know, in my interview process, this, I, I taught in the Navy, went through buds. BUDS is six months. If you make it through for me without any hang ups. Talk about, we do life stories. This is how you grew up. This is what you experienced in combat. This is how bad it got. This is what got you through it. And then, and then we talk about their. What they're. Almost nobody makes it without any hang ups. You're looking at a good, you know, and now their business to help elevate that. And so in these, in these interviews, eight months, I would say eight to nine months would be average just to get through buds. Then you go through sqt. That's SEAL qualification training. There's another four or five months. Then you get to your SEAL team. You think you're a badass. Guess what? You're not. You got another year and a half of training at your SEAL team. First guy that I talked to was Eddie Gallagher, who had brought up psychedelic therapy. And I was like, huh, this sounds like it's for hippies. And.

Yeah.

And then another guy came on to talk about it, and I was. And it. It. And then another guy came on to talk about it. Then you go just to go to war, you know, and so you're looking at a good.

We're in the thick of it. Then when you were even. Yeah. Wow.

And so then I had mentioned DJ earlier. DJ3.3 and a half years of training just to get the opportunity to go to war. Interviewed him and. And he was kind of like, it was sinking in. But after I interviewed him, he had. He was like, hey, wow, so you're ready by the time, or you think you're ready by the time you get there, but. And so I'm kind of, you know, I know you're considering this. Like, you should really do it, man. Psychedelic stuff. It's. It works. And I understand. I understood some of the science behind it at this time by now, too, so. So I booked. I booked a trip and. And went down to Mexico to do an ibogaine in 5 Meo. I'm going through back to what we were talking about. I'm kind of going through, like, all the things that guys deal with. Then there's. Then there is ptsd, which now they're saying Special ops guys. It's called operators Therapy, treatment. And.

And how are those done?

IV no, you go, so five meo. You smoke. It's a toad venom. The Sonora Desert toad, I think, is where it comes from. So you just.

I just wonder who figures this out.

All right. Syndrome, they're kind of starting to transition that. But, you know, it's. It's survivor's guilt. It's all my friends that are now dead. Oh, I'm not saying me, but, you know, people. Oh, I had to kill a woman. Oh, I had to kill a kid.

Who, like, found the first joke. It was like, hey, frankly, you know, let's. Let's crush him and smoke him and see. Wow. That really made me feel, you know, like ayahuasca. Yeah. You know, it's. It's deadly.

Boys, I think a lot of people are saying the same thing about some of the stuff you're talking about.

No, no, this is very true. Yeah.

I don't know. And then. So you smoke that and, and ibogaine. Oh, that person was probably innocent. You know, I mean, all this kind of thing. So there's, so there's just. I think it comes from a root in somewhere in Africa, Gabon or. I can't remember, but, but that is like I, it came in a capsule. And so the ibogaine experience was like 12 hours. I don't know how in deep depth. You want me to go on that.

But was it 12 hours of like a trip?

Like you were on the stuff you were talking about earlier with sleep. Nobody, nobody I know that comes from this job sleeps.

Right.

Or sleeps well. And, and because you're, you're in that constant state of, of, for lack of a better term, paranoia. Even though once you've done it for so long, it doesn't seem like paranoia.

It's just mushrooms or lsd. Like a, like it's a trip. It's a trip.

It's a trip.

And I mean, I've never done ayahuasca, but a lot of. Some people swear by it, some people are very afraid of it. You know, for me, the jury's still out on it. But, but just because I don't know that much about it.

It's just life. And so when you even that long after. Yeah.

Wow. To say one way or the other. But I have seen stories of people, excuse me, very credible.

And so, you know, when you get home, your identity has been stripped.

You have audible people that have had these incredible journeys, like life changing, like what I feel you're about to describe and where they were really in a dark place and really couldn't figure it out. And, and I'm, and, and first of.

All, thank you for these chemical imbalances in your brain. You've seen more trauma than just about anybody on the planet.

And, and, and being so vulnerable and really describing that, that, that situation like that. I know it must be tough for you to even think, think about it, but they literally, they said it was like flicking a switch. They actually were able to, as they describe it, almost get out of their own body and look at themselves and, and be really honest with themselves. And it was like then your own.

Injuries, you know, that you're fighting as well with, you know, banged up knees or, or heaven forbid, amputees, you know, stuff like that.

It's, they actually had an honest evaluation themselves like I'm really this up and I'm. Or you know, these are the behaviors that are really causing me to stay in this constant wheel of despair and disappointment and I'm not getting any traction in life. And they said it was so clear. Yeah. So it's fascinating to me, you know, and you said you, you know a little bit about the science is that of the psilocybin or the, the way.

The easiest way for me to explain it and, and, and I could be wrong, but this is what I've learned through my interviews is that, you know, the older we get, the. I think it's obvious, right. The more, the older we get, we see it with our parents. Right. The more set in their ways that these are all the things that, that are kind of going through your head. And so for me, when I left the agency, I was looking for that address to become. I'm that way. I think we're all that way. But the way that, that it was described to me several times is that the, the, is the, the neurons in your brain travel back and forth through the Dynaline. And so I moved to Medellin, Colombia, and default mode network. And so that's what. From the, from the front of your brain to the back of the brain. And it wasn't always found that adrenaline by getting involved in cocaine rings and.

What brought you to Medellin.

It's like that. So, so, so right now for me and you, our neurons are just going, you know, front, back and forth, back and forth, and that's how they're communicating. But when we were young, we had all these other neural pathways that these neurons were using to.

You just went there?

Yeah, yeah, yeah, pretty much.

Okay.

And communicate and get information to wherever the hell it needs to go. Well, as time goes on, those pathways start to close up. The neurons get lazy. They're like, oh, we're just going to go to the default mode network and we'll just communicate this way. And so now you get stuck in your ways. You get stuck in that same hamster.

Wheel, that habitual pattern.

And so to my understanding, basically what some psychedelics do is they actually put up a block in that default mode network, so they're not just going back and forth anymore. Now all these neurons have to. Yeah, I was there for. Right about in and out for five years and, and realized I had a. A was really skirting the line there. OD'd a couple times and pulled through that. And I never even did drugs as a kid. Did you do them and find new pathways or reopen old pathways in your brain that haven't been used in years and years and years?

Wow.

And so you. So these Neurons are. Are. So it's opening. It's. It's literally unlocking your brain.

Wow. And did you feel that that was going on during this 12 hours? Were you frightened or paranoid? Did you feel, like, terrified or like your life was gonna end or anything like that? I think calm.

I was pretty calm. I mean, were you aware of it? Yeah.

Like, you're not, like, you know, it wasn't your military service. I mean, obviously you're not doing drugs in the military, so it's. After you got out, it's just. Just.

It just.

Life's just not exciting anymore.

Oh.

See, down to me.

So that's the other thing is. Is they. I was. I was a little nervous that I would wind up in some type of mental or.

Yeah, like a hallucination state or something. Yeah. But Medellin with a buddy of yours or something, and.

Yeah, it started with a buddy. It started and I started going to Cartagena with a buddy. And then. And then. And then I just started flying solo. But, you know, you're. You're. You are wired up to an EKG and an iv. But that's to get you out of something if, you know, if something goes wrong. And. And so. So you can be in the middle of your experience, having your experience, and then, you know, the nurse or the doctor comes around and, like, Shakespeare down there and started kind of building a lot of contacts and stuff, but, God, really addicted to cocaine. Had two pretty close calls. Picture. And they're like, hey, you doing all right? You lift up your eye mask and you're out of the experience. You're like, yep, all good, buddy going back in.

Really? Yeah, really like that.

It is like that. It is like you snap out of it. You know what I mean? So wild. It's almost. I mean, from where I overdosed and.

This is just from. Just used it for too many days too often. It was too much coke all the time. Just go call.

I remember me. It was almost like. It was almost like I had to concentrate to get into it. And. And if I want, you know, because.

You kind of surrender 12 hours.

Yeah, I was always paranoid that I was. Turns out, coke makes you paranoid, but who knew?

But thc. Same.

But no, I remember my best friend, pee break and all kinds of stuff. So. So yeah, you. You can. You can, like, snap out of it.

It sounds like you kind of liked it or you were curious about it. I was like, yeah, I can tell you. You put the mask back down. You're like, I want to see where this goes Yep. Yeah.

Yep. It was with me down there. I would always get worried that I was.

There's a good friend. Yeah.

And, you know, I. I saw a couple things, but I. I didn't like. And he's dead now.

Okay.

But he said, you don't relive any super traumatic events. It was more like. The way I describe it is it was like. It was like I had two rows of TV screens going through to worry. You don't need to worry about your ODN on. If you're on speed, you don't need to worry. My, like, vision with my eyes closed. And so it was that you're odin unless things start to slow down. And I was like, huh, all right, I guess that makes sense. And then I remember the first time I felt that things started slowing down, just lines of them. And in each TV screen was, like, something that had happened in my life. And there was. There didn't seem to be like any. It wasn't in chronological order. It wasn't like, from age, you know, from birth to now. It was just a bunch of. It was like somebody just put a bunch of life events on a deck. And my speech was like. Sounded like that scene on Old School where Will Ferrell's like, card shuffled them up, put them in a line, and said, hey, we're gonna send these through Sean's brain. And so there was. That was like, stuff that had happened with my dad back in the day, stuff that happened in Iraq, stuff that. It's. It's. It was. Everything just slowed down. My voice slowed down. My brain was moving faster than I could talk. I couldn't talk. Happened when I was a teenager stuff, you know, and it was.

Did you feel like you're like, I'm. And.

And were you like, really.

You were really, really wired at the time.

Oh, yeah.

Seeing that. I remember that. Yeah.

But it was weird because every time I would try to jump into that specific experience, like, oh, I remember that. I want to relive that. Or. Or, oh, that was. Anytime I would try to concentrate on any specific event, everything would go away.

And so that's the ultimate torture.

Yeah. So. So I would have to concentrate on not trying to concentrate on any particular memory.

So just your central nervous system was just. Absolutely.

Yep.

Frying done. And. And so the. The vision starts to narrow. Yep. Yep. Wow.

Vision barrel. The vision narrowed. And. And then I woke up on the. On the floor of a club. Of a club. Yeah.

Wow.

Woke up on the floor of a club. That didn't do it. That Was actually my very first time. So that they could just all filter through and, and I don't know what the hell that means.

I don't either.

I mean it was stuff that was. That I hadn't thought about in. In years.

But it was accurate. These were vivid memories. Like as it was, you were like. I definitely remember that. Yep. You know, that was my. That was my best friend. I forgot about him. Like yeah, that kind of stuff. Oh man, I forgot I had that girlfriend in yeah. College. Like wow.

Doing coke. But then, then it started happen. Then it happened two more times after that. It was almost like my brain was just sorting through like thousands and thousands of memories. And then there was like some stuff that just still doesn't really make sense to me. Like some fear and loathing in Las Vegas type. Like it was walls of stuffed animals and I was on some horse. Like it was weird.

Yeah.

I don't know what that was. Years after that and. And so I realized I have a problem. Had a problem. Left Columbia, kind of got ran out of there actually but. But left there. Moved to Boca Raton, Florida. But woke up this. So that was about a 12 hour experience. And woke up, went downstairs.

You have a gray day.

They call it a gray day after it's like the worst hangover you've ever had in your life. And like actual headache, pain and kind of kept at it there. Thought if I removed myself out of that environment that I was horrible, dizzy, really vomiting, like horrible. Just wow. Yeah.

And that lasts a day.

I mean. Yeah. And would clean it up stateside which. Which I didn't. And I got up to go to the bathroom and I looked at my eyes and I remember thinking like my eyes look different and. And they looked lighter and. And. And sure I came home from that and one of the. The first thing my wife said to me was your eyes look lighter and the whites of your eyes look white whiter. And then there had a suicide attempt where I just. I just completely just kind of not kind of lost. So it wasn't just me. And so after that though we did the ibogaine. Then after that you have the. You have your day off and then you do the 5 Meo DMT and the 5 Meo DMT when. I mean that is very short experience, maybe 15 minutes tops. But the most profound experience, I mean my routine, Gary was hope that you.

Would get out, that you would.

I just didn't care anymore, man. Like all my friends were still involved in the wolves of my entire life really. It was or either it. And the SEAL teams are. And I don't say that lightly.

Even more profound than the one you just described.

More profound than my kids being born. Like, it was so intense and so revealing. I. It's development group or in the agency. And to hear like what those guys were involved in and what they were doing and I wasn't there.

Why couldn't you have stayed? I mean, why was it your choice to leave?

It was. I mean it was my choice. I mean I still remember it like it's. It's a death experience.

It was your choice and. But then you also missed it.

Yeah, I missed it and. And I really. I missed it for a long time and so it ruined all my family relationships just because I was. When I was. I was drinking more than a fifth of vodka a day. I would wake up, my whole freezer was just completely packed with vodka mini bottles. My glove compartment, my car was packed with vodka mini bottles. Everywhere I went had flasks. So for me.

Is this something you'd want to do again?

I've done it a couple times since really. Or many bottles. And. And that's how I would get through the day drinking that.

And then it.

But it's. I wouldn't say it's a good time. You know, it's not like.

Because you said a profound experience. Meaning like this stands out to me. Yeah. Yeah. This is.

So you've had some experiences too.

I mean it's a death.

It's a.

You.

You die. That's the only way to describe it. You die. You don't think you're dying. Night when I would go back home, I would just pull out a fifth and tug on that until. Until the lights were out. And while I was tugging on that I would take ambient Xanax, Valium, Lorazepan. You know, you're. You die. You think you're dying. Like nobody can convince you otherwise. It's not hydrocoding anything I could to keep my mind from just.

I'm actually dead.

I'm paranoid. You know, pull me out of this. No, it's. I'm dying and I'm like nobody's. There's nothing that can happen. And so.

But you're conscious, but you're aware that you're dead. So you accept that you have a.

That's pretty much. I know it sounds really going right all the time.

And how are you able to get that just dealers would put. Get their hands on it.

Well, I worked overseas and you know, turns out that most countries you don't Need a prescription to get whatever you want. Odd.

Once you accept it, is there. Is it. Is it the profound sadness of I.

Would just go behind the counter and tell them what I want and throw it in a. And a shopping bag?

The things you didn't get done in your life.

No.

Things you didn't say.

Okay. It's the complete opposite basket and stock up and bring it all home. And, you know, I'd done that for years. And so I had stockpiles of it that. So when you're dying, it is. It's. They call it an ego death. But you first, you kind of go through and this all lasts maybe like 30 seconds maybe. But you at home. And then. And then I was also, you know, when I did. First you go through the holy. I'm dying and there's nothing I can do. Finally start to. To kind of get some help, and I started going to therapy. And then it's. And then it's, oh, who am I leaving behind? I can't leave them behind. And so for me, it was my wife and. And my. I mean, I would get it prescribed, you know, hey, can't sleep? Need some Ambien. Here you go. Oh, here's some Selenor. Here you go. Here's this. Here you go. I think my son was like six months old at the. It was right around six months. Six months old at the time. And so I just like, was grasping on for anything to try to. To try to live for them. I was like, I can't fucking leave my wife and kid here. This place is a disaster. And. And I mean, it wasn't. They weren't giving me everything I wanted, but they were definitely, you know.

Right.

I could get it.

What made you raise your hand?

What made me raise my hands? But you really. You think. You think you're departing and. And then eventually you do give up. But I will say, like, you know, at the beginning, you'd ask me, you know, enough.

I want help.

Couple of things.

The.

What got me out of Colombia is I went home to visit my family and. And I. When I started odn, I would call my dad and like, me and my dad are really close. And I would tell him, hey, Dad, I need to get the out of here. I'm not gonna make it out of here. I wouldn't tell him what I was doing, but he was. He knew and he was worried. And I went home to visit him and. Up in a super small town of Missouri, and. And I. I don't even know what happened, man. I just. I know me and my dad were supposed to go to a Cardinals baseball game the next day, and I. I must have blacked out and.

You OD'd again. You took the drugs with you?

I dropped them with them, yeah. I would bring them everywhere. I couldn't. I couldn't. I can't sleep without. I can't. I can't sleep without them. I mean.

Oh, these are prescriptions, so you can take them through an airport. No. You weren't taking, like, coke and stuff like that? No, no, no, no. Okay.

No, no. Drug trafficking. Yeah, but. But I would. Yeah, I would just. I was like a walking pharmacy for benzos and opiates and. And sleeping pills. And I woke up and my dad was standing over my bed and I. He was like tearing up and I. I just could tell he was like, he didn't know what to do and. And he wanted me to get some help. And so at that point, I wasn't going to get any help, but I was like, all right, maybe I should like, move out of Columbia. And so I did. And then. And then the second kind of wake up call was my suicide attempt again. Don't really know what happened. I was a blue martini in Boca Raton, Florida, and the next minute I'm upstairs waking up in my bed alone, and my whole house smells like gasoline. Came downstairs, saw Glock on my bed or I'm sorry, on the couch, which I never. And it's not the Glock that I carry or carried for, For. For personal defense. It was something that I pulled out of a safe. So probably was gonna do something there and then.

But you don't even remember that.

I don't. And then I walked out to my garage and I touched the garage door and I was hot to the touch. And I was like, oh, what is that? Is there a fire in there? And I remember thinking, if I open this door and there's a fire in there, it's going to get a big rush of oxygen. It's probably going to kill me. So I opened it and thank God. And nothing happened. But my car was running in there and I drove an Audi A8 at the time, and seat was all the way reclined back, so I. I pulled in the garage, closed the door, left the car running, decided I was lights out, let the seat down. Somehow I woke up the. It was so hot that the exhaust melted a hole in the gas tank and the gas tank was leaking onto the exhaust muffler.

Wow.

And there was like a little bitty like fire in there. So. So I called my best friend, Dave Rutherford, and kind of told him, you know, the situation I was in. Then I called a really good friend of mine out of Boston who helps veterans. She's like an angel to a lot of people named Peggy Matthews. And then I called my, my therapist in Boca and they were all like, yeah, you. That's what that was.

And so you think you pulled in prepared to do it and then something.

Yeah.

Got you up and you just went upstairs and went to bed and just don't recall that was. God. And probably fumbled around the safe and got the gun out. And I think I thought about it.

This is what happened. Pulled in the garage, had an argument with somebody that I cared about a lot and then left the bar, pulled in the garage, was going to kill myself there, went into the, into the living room, pulled out the gun, took all my clothes off on the couch, and then probably passed out there and then went upstairs to my bed at some point at the night. And so that was another wake up call. And, and so I made a promise to my therapist that I wouldn't drink vodka anymore. And so I had. I had successfully transitioned to wine.

Wow.

And so then. And I was good, you know, I started getting my life back together. I quit all the benzos.

By yourself? You were actually strong enough to get off of those.

I got off all the best.

Really tough for the most part.

I got off all the benzos. I had, I had my emergency stash. So. Yeah. And. And then I met my wife who's. Who's been sober for 14 or 15 years now. And, and that obviously helped a lot. And then, and then in the last three years, what really, you know, what really like, did the trick was psychedelics.

Yeah. That I want to go down that road. Because you went out of the country to do this. And it wasn't just the psilocybin. You did other, other treatments.

Yeah.

But I remember you describing it as pretty instant, like, meaning the, the impact of the treatment, and came back and just sort of knew the difference between what was poison and what wasn't. And you said, that's poisoning me. That's poisoning me. That's poisoning me. But you just were clear about it. And so tell. Talk a little bit about that journey because clearly you are in a very dark place. Yeah.

So, yeah, I just, I kept interviewing. I mean, you know, my interviews, I interview a lot of former colleagues and, and, and warrior elites, we'll call them that. And so, you know, in my interview process, this, I, I talk about. We do a life story. This is how you grew up. This is what you experienced in combat. This is how bad it got. This is what got you through it. And then, and then we talk about their. What they're doing now, their business to help elevate that. And so in these, in these interviews, first guy that I talked to was Eddie Gallagher, who had brought up psychedelic therapy. And I was like, huh, this sounds like it's for hippies. And yeah. And then another guy came on to talk about it, and I was. And it. It. And then another guy came on to talk about it then.

So you were in the thick of it then when you were even. Yeah. Wow.

And so then I had mentioned DJ earlier. DJ interviewed him and, and he was kind of like it was sinking in. But after I interviewed him, he had. He was like, hey, you know, I know you're considering this. Like, you should really do it, man. Psychedelic stuff, It's. It works. And I understand. I understood some of the science behind it at this time by now too, so. So I booked. I booked a trip and, and went down to Mexico to do an ibogaine and five MEO therapy treatment. And, and.

And how are those done?

IV no, you go, so five meo you smoke. It's a toad venom. The Sonora Desert toad, I think, is where it comes from.

So you just always wonder who figures this. Who, like, found the first token was like, hey, frankly, you know, let's.

Let's.

Let's crush him and smoke him and see. Wow, that really made me feel, you know, like ayahuasca.

Yeah.

You know, it's deadly, boys.

I think a lot of people are saying the same thing about some of the stuff you're talking about.

This is very true.

But like, yeah, I don't know. And then. So you smoke that and, and ibogaine. I think it comes from a root in somewhere in Africa. It came in a capsule. And so the ibogaine experience was like 12 hours. I don't know how indeed depth. You want me to go on that.

But was it 12 hours of like a trip? Like you were on mushrooms or lsd? Like a. Like a trip?

It's a trip.

It's a trip.

It's a trip.

And I mean, I've never done ayahuasca, but a lot of. Some people swear by it.

It.

Some people are very afraid of it. You know, for me, the jury's still out on it, but. But just because I don't know that much about it to say one way or the other, but I have seen stories of people, excuse me, very credible people that have had these incredible journeys, like life changing, like what I feel you're about to describe and where they were really in a dark place and really couldn't figure it out. And, and I'm, and, and first of all, thank you for being so vulnerable and really describing that, that, that situation like that. I know it must be tough for you to even think, think about it, but they literally, they said it was like flicking a switch. They actually were able to, as they describe it, almost get out of their own body and look at themselves and, and be really honest with themselves. And it was like they actually had an honest evaluation themselves. Like, I'm really this up and I'm. Or, you know, these are the behaviors that are really causing me to stay in this constant wheel of despair and disappointment and I'm not getting any traction in life. And they said it was so clear. Yeah. So it's fascinating to me, you know, and you said you, you know a little bit about the science is that of the psilocybin or the, the way.

The easiest way for me to explain it and, and, and I could be wrong, but this is what I've learned through my interviews is that, you know, the older we get, the, I think it's obvious, right. The more, the older we get we see with our parents, right. The more set in their ways that they become. I'm that way. I think we're all that way. But the way that, that it was described to me several times is that the, the, is the, the neurons in your brain travel back and forth through the default mode network. And so that's what. From the, from the front of your brain to the back of the brain. And it wasn't always like that. So, so, so right now for me and you, our neurons are just going, you know, front, back and forth, back and forth. And that's how the communicating. But when we were young, we had all these other neural pathways that these neurons were using to communicate and get information to wherever the hell it needs to go. Well, as time goes on, those pathways start to close up. The neurons get lazy. They're like, oh, we're just going to go to the default mode network and we'll just communicate this way. And so now you get stuck in your ways. You get stuck in that same hamster.

Wheel, that habitual pattern.

And so to my understanding, basically what some psychedelics do is they actually put up a block in that default mode network, so they're not just going back and forth anymore. Now all these neurons have to find new pathways or reopen old pathways in your brain that haven't been used in years and years and years.

Wow.

And so you. So these neurons are. Are. So it's opening. It's. It's literally unlocking your brain.

Wow. And did you feel that that was going on during this 12 hours? Were you frightened or paranoid? Did you feel, like, terrified or like your life was gonna end or anything like that? I think calm.

I was pretty calm. I mean, were you aware of it? Yeah.

Like, you're not like.

So that's the other thing is. Is they. I was. I was a little nervous that I would wind up in some type of mental or.

Yeah, like a hallucination state or something. Yeah.

But. But, you know, you're. You're. You are wired up to an EKG and an iv, but that's to get you out of something if, you know, if something goes wrong. And. And so. So you can be in the middle of your experience, having your experience, and then, you know, the nurse or the doctor comes around and, like, shakes you, and they're like, hey, you doing all right? You lift up your eye mask, and you're out of the experience. You're like, yep, all good, buddy. Going back in.

Really?

Yeah, really.

Like that.

It is like that. It is like you snap out of it. You know what I mean? So wild. It's almost. I mean, for me, it was almost like. Like, it was almost like I had to concentrate to get into it. And. And if I want, you know, because.

You kind of surrender 12 hours, you.

Got to take a pee break and all kinds of stuff, so. So yeah, you. You can. You can, like, snap out of it.

It sounds like you kind of liked it or you were curious about it. I was like, yeah, I can tell you. You put the mask back down. You're like, I want to see where this goes.

Yep.

Yeah.

Yeah. And, you know, I. I saw a couple things, but I didn't, like, relive any super traumatic events. It was more like. The way I describe it is, it was like. It was like I had two rows of TV screens going through my, like, vision with my eyes closed. And so it was just lines of them. And in each TV screen was, like, something that had happened in my life. And there was. There didn't seem to be, like, any. It wasn't in chronological order. It wasn't, like from age, you know, from birth to now. It was just a bunch of. It was like somebody just put a bunch of life events on a deck of cards, shuffled them up, put them in a line and said, hey, we're gonna send these through Sean's brain. And so there was. That was like stuff that had happened with my dad back in the day, stuff that happened in Iraq, stuff that happened when I was a teenager stuff, you know, and it was.

Did you feel like you're like, I'm seeing that. I remember that. Yeah.

But it was weird because every time I would try to jump into that specific experience, like, oh, I remember that, I want to relive that. Or, or oh, that was. Anytime I would try to concentrate on any specific event, everything would go away.

Oh, so that's the ultimate torture.

Yeah, so. So I would have to concentrate on not trying to concentrate on any particular memory so that they could just all filter through and, and I don't know what the hell that means.

I don't either.

It was stuff that was. That I hadn't thought about in, in years.

But he was accurate. These were vivid memories. Like, as it was, you were like, I definitely remember that. Yeah. You know, that was my, that was my best friend. I forgot about him. Like. Yeah, that kind of stuff. Oh, me, I forgot I had that girlfriend in. Yeah. College. Like, wow.

It was almost like my brain was just sorting through like thousands and thousands of memories. And then there was like some stuff that just still doesn't really make sense to me. Like some Fear and loathing in Las Vegas type shit. Like it was. Was walls of stuffed animals and I was on some horse. Like it was weird.

Yeah.

I don't know what that was, but woke up this. So that was about a 12 hour experience. And woke up, went downstairs.

You have a gray day.

They call it a gray day after it's like the worst hangover you've ever had in your life. And like actual headache, pain, horrible, dizzy, really vomiting, like, horrible. Just wow. Yeah.

And that last a day.

I mean. Yeah. And I got up to go to the bathroom and I looked at my eyes and I remember thinking like, my eyes look different and, and they looked lighter and, and, and sure, I came home from that and one of the. The first thing my wife said to me was, your eyes look lighter and the whites of your eyes look white. Whiter. So it wasn't just me. And so after that though, we did the ibogaine. Then after that you have the, you have your day off and then you do the 5 Meo DMT and the 5 Meo DMT when, I mean that is very short experience, maybe 15 minutes tops. But the most profound experience of my entire life, really, it was. And I don't say that lightly.

Even more profound than the one you just described.

More profound than my kids being born. Like, it was so intense and so revealing. I. It's. I mean, I still remember it like it's. It's a death experience.

So for me, is it something you'd want to do again?

I've done it a couple times, son. Really, but it's. I wouldn't say it's a good time. You know, it's not like.

Because you said a profound experience, meaning, like, this stands out to me.

Yeah.

Yeah. This is.

So you've had some experiences too.

I mean, it's a death seal, and it's a. You.

You die. That's the only way to describe it. You die. You don't think you're dying. You know, you're. You die. You think you're dying. Like nobody can convince you otherwise.

It's not like I'm actually.

I'm paranoid, you know, pull me out of this. No, it's. I'm dying and I'm like, nobody's. There's nothing that can happen happen. And so.

But you're conscious, but you're aware that you're dead, so you accept that you have a.

That's pretty much. I know it sounds really odd, but.

Once you accept it, is there. Is it. Is it the profound sadness of the things you didn't get done in your life? The things you didn't say?

Except it's the complete opposite of that. So when you're dying, it is. It's. They call it an ego death. But you first, you kind of go through. And this all lasts maybe like 30 seconds, maybe. But you first, you go through the holy. I'm dying, and there's nothing I can do. And then it's. And then it's, oh, who am I leaving behind? I can't leave them behind. And so for me, it was my wife and. And my. I think my son was, like, six months old. It was right around six months. Six months old at the time. And so I just, like, was grasping on for anything to try to. To try to live for them. I was like, I can't leave my wife and kid here. This place is a disaster. And. And. But you really, you. You think you're departing, and. And then eventually you do give up. But I will say, like, you know, at the beginning, you'd asked me, you know, about combat experiences where I thought I was gonna die, and I've been through a ton of those, but nothing like this really, this was more profound than that.

Wow. You are, you've accepted that you're either dead or you are about to die. Yeah.

It was truly, it was the most anxiety, most fear, most sadness that I'd ever felt all, all at once. And, and then you. I don't think any, everybody can get to this because I know I've recommended this to everybody that works for me. I've recommended it.

Really.

All my friends. It's, it was, what it's done for me is just so, so profound.

And even though it, the experience itself is horrible.

Yeah. Because of what happens on the other side. And, and so if you can get to the point where you can muster up enough courage to just die.

Then.

You, you, you like, cross over into this new realm.

And once you surrender and say, yep, okay, God, I'm ready to go.

And the minute that, that, that happens, like, you cross over and. Man, this stuff sounds weird. And I always thought this was all for hippies, but it's not. And, but you know, you hear people talk about energy and that person has a bad energy and that person has a good energy, and, and energy is everything. You see that if you come out the other side, it, it is. I mean, a lot of people do it on a blindfold and a lot of people say that, they say that they see, they go through a wormhole, they see the Big bang. They see, they see family lineage, they see friends that have died in combat. You know, I didn't, I wanted to do it without the eye mask. And I remember looking out over the ocean down in Mexico. And I remember every time I do a psychedelic experience, it's always very, I don't get a whole lot of visuals. I get a lot of into it intuition. And I could see energy flowing from islands to the ocean to the beach, into the air, up the trees and the leaves. And it was, it was, it was. You hear a lot of people say, oh, we're all one. Everything's connected. There's a oneness. There is a oneness, man. Like really, you can see and feel intuitively the flow of energy, of positive energy. And, and at the same time, I, I, I could feel and hear like the earth's vibration.

Wow.

And you are just, you are so in tune with nature, God, whatever you want to call it, the universe. I mean, it's, if any evil, any negative energy, any evil came into the, into your field of view, it would, it would stick out like a spotlight in darkness. And in it, you know, and on the other hand, it Makes you realize that there is definitely life after death. There is, There is. We're all going somewhere.

Yeah. And now are you a man of God? Are you?

Absolutely.

Okay.

Are you?

Yes.

Good for you.

Yeah. But a promise Keepers Convention, 20, 1994, however many years ago that was.

What's that?

1994, I got, I got saved at a Promise Keepers convention. I went and.

Awesome.

Yeah. In 1994, I was in grad school and it was in Soldier Field. I gave my life to the Lord. And it was a. They used to have a movement called Promise Keepers. Might still be around, but my lawyer tricked me into going to this. It was, it was a Christian men's event and I didn't know that. And he told me it was like a motivational thing to go see these motivational speakers. And it was a, this movement called Promise Keepers. And I'll just never forget. I mean, I, I joined hands with 70,000 Christian men and started to say the Lord's Prayer and I just fell apart and went down to the stage and gave my life to Christ.

Why did your attorney think that you needed to go to a.

Because he's. But he was, he was a, you know, really strong Christian guy and, and I thought I was up, but after your story, I feel pretty good about myself. I feel actually really good. I'm just kidding. You know. Yeah, I was in, I was, I was in grad school and you know, I was just typical, you know, self centered and, you know, I wasn't doing anything crazy, you know, partying a little bit. I was, you know, I was going through grad school and had a decent relationship with a girlfriend at the time and ended up becoming my wife back then. And he, he just was a really powerful Christian. He's like, hey, I want you to come to this, this event. I think you, you know, I think you really love it. These motivational speakers, it's so inspiring. And I thought it was going to be like one of, you know, like David Goggins kind of, you know, on stage telling you to get your together. He wasn't around then, but so I was like, okay, you know, I'll go and it was a very profound experience for me.

Good for you.

But I didn't mean to interrupt you, but. So you say you're convinced now that there is something on the other side?

Yeah, I mean, I didn't, I mean now I'm a believer in Jesus and Amen and. But at that time I just realized, honestly, like I, it made, it took me. This sounds weird because it made me a better person, but it, it kind of took Jesus and God out of the picture for me. Not that I was like some stand up Christian man or anything back then. Obviously I wasn't, but bumps on you, but I was like, man, I always wondered about this. Now I know that's not real or that's what I thought, but, but coming out of that, you know, gosh, you.

Must be so many, so profoundly sad. Like it was that moment.

Yeah. But I mean, I, I did feel the presence of my best friend Gabe, who, Who died when I was. He was down in Columbia with me for a while. Another seal that I worked with at the agency as well. But, but anyways, I, I got home and I told you that my wife, the first thing she had noticed was my eyes were my, my lighter brown and my whites were whiter. And, and, and, and I went down there to be more in the moment too, with my son, because I was. I'm a dad now. And you know, I know a lot of business people struggle with this. How, how do you. You know, I'm in love with my business. Yeah, sure you are too. And so it can, it can be a challenge to turn it off at night and, and be in the moment with the wife and kids.

Right.

And, and that bothers me when there's.

Always something to do. Yeah.

And, and it bothers her too. It took me right back into the moment I was able to shut it off. It made me more. All these weird things happened that I wasn't expecting. It made me way more efficient and productive. I was getting like a week's worth of done.

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Yeah.

So you're super efficient. Right. How about, you know, is addiction still knocking at the door?

No. So that's, this is the, this is the. I did not even go down there to quit drinking because like I had said him in my up mind, I was fine because all I was drinking was a couple of bottles of wine a night, not vodka.

Well, you're hamming the Colombian Bam bam and I tell you're in a good place, you know. Yeah, relatively speaking.

But, but, you know, I mean, so I, I lost like all my addictions. And so I was still taking Adderall. That's gone. I was smoking cannabis to go to sleep. I quit that for about six months. Now I'm back. Yeah, but sleep's like the One thing I just cannot.

I'm gonna hack it for you, man. When I go on your podcast, we're gonna take the clip from this podcast where you couldn't sleep, and you're gonna be like, holy, I'm sleeping.

Like, good, good.

I got you, brother.

I'd still. I'd still used benzos here and there, gone. Sleeping pills, gone. Booze gone. And there was sugar gone for about. Really for about six months. And so sugar's back too. Sugar's back.

Okay.

Sugar and cannabis are back. Caffeine was gone for a long time. Still don't drink coffee now. I'll have tea, but. But, you know, wasn't any effort either. It was just. It was just. It was like my mind got a download and it was just, this shit's poison. This is poison. This is poison.

Crystal poison.

Don't do it. And it wasn't like, there was no urges. There was no cravings. There was none of that. It was just, I'm done with this shit. Not.

Wow.

I'm not drinking anymore. And so this February, this Valentine's Day will be three years.

Wow.

Since I've had a drink.

That's amazing, man. I mean, like I said for the. For me, the jury is still out on those. I don't have my arms around it enough, but I've had. Had people like yourself, credible, that have had these just profound experiences. That is an amazing story. And. And I'm sure that you now know other people that have gone through the same thing that have had similar. Tons of them. Wow. It's incredible.

I know a guy, really good friend of mine, I get. I. I'm just gonna say it because it's helping so many people, man. But this guy was blown up in Afghanistan. Survived the worst.

He.

He was in the worst car bomb that I've seen somebody actually live through. I'll put it that way. Basically turned a Toyota Land Cruiser inside out, and he lived through that.

He drove over.

He got hit by a suicide bomber.

Okay.

Then fast forward. Then he got shot in the head in a road rage accident with a.38 Special. Lights out in the middle of the road. Still has shrapnel in his brain. And so I'm really good friends with him. He was. He was a former Green Beret, worked with him at the agency. And. And when he got shot in the head, I. I had gone down to help him, help him and his wife, and he's just been struggling ever since. Well, his wife called a. Called me and my wife one day, and she was Saying that he is bedridden five to six days a week. Can't get out of bed. When he can get out of bed, his vertigo is so bad, he has to walk around with a cane. He can't go outside without sunglasses on even on a cloudy day because his light sensitivity is so bad. We haven't had sex in over two years, and I'm thinking, holy, man. And I had told him about this therapy several times. Called him up, connected him with some people, got him down there super fast, and he walked out of that exact same spirit experience that I did. Left his cane there as a souvenir for these people. He's like, I don't need this anymore. Went home, his wife, doesn't need the sunglasses anymore, isn't bedridden. This was probably about six months ago. Still doing great today.

Wow. That is incredible.

Yeah. Yeah.

That is incredible. I mean, this is so far outside of the ultimate human. That is. That is just incredible, though, man. And you know what? I think my intellectual curiosity really wants to dig in. I'm going to go down the rabbit hole on this because, you know, rfk, he posted a statement. I thought it was pretty badass. And he mentioned psychedelics. And I don't know if you saw this, but. But he has said the FDA's war on public health is about to end. This includes the aggressive suppression of psychedelics, peptides, stem cells, raw milk, hyperbaric therapies, chelating compounds, ivermectin, hydroxychloroquine, vitamins, clean food, sunshine, nutraceuticals, and anything else that advances human health and can't be patented by big Pharma. If you work for the FDA and you're part of this corrupt system, I have two messages for you. Number one, preserve your records. And number two, pack your bags.

Damn, I love that guy.

I love that guy, too. Like, you know, because when you have people in. In your condition, in your friend's condition, when we have tens of thousands of, you know, our. Our military men and women that are permanently on the chemical hamster wheel, which is further destroying their life. And there's something that an adult can do to make a sound decision for their own body with a full understanding of the consequences, you know, why are we preventing people from accessing these kinds of therapies when they. When all they have is a persistent vegetative state like friend had basically found himself in? Yeah, that's not living. I mean, you're alive, but you're not living. Yeah, and. And I'm, you know, I'M a big fan. I remember, I remember during COVID there was the right to try and, you know, this was only for the people that were in the darkest parts of their life. They were in the ICU with pulmonary fibrosis. They didn't have modern medicine, had nothing left to offer. And things started parachuting in, like, stem cells and, and exosomes and nebulized exosomes, and people were coming off of ventilators and respirators and, and, and fibrotic tissue and their. In their lungs was actually becoming healthy tissue. Things that, like, medicine would have told you could have never happened. You know, nerves remyelinating and, and things like that. And, And I, and you know, to me, the pace of medicine is, Is slow because we have to move at the pace of the regulatory environment, which I totally understand and embrace, because you can't have a, you know, a bunch of charlatans just putting random stuff into human beings. But, but it's really, you know, it's really profound to know that it can have that. That big of an effect on somebody's life. I want to sort of pull us out of the hole for a second. I know that you've, you know, you got to be really happy with what, what happened in this last election. But, but for you and military men and women that are in your group, I mean, what is, what does the future look like for you? What does it mean to you? What is, what does this election mean to you? That, man, as far as the direction of the country and. Oh, you.

I mean, I could tell you, you know, when, when, when they pulled off the win, Trump and Vance, I gotta tell you, man, like, I did not realize how much baggage I was running around with on a daily basis.

Were you an angry little smurf?

Oh, yeah. I mean, I've been trying to. I just couldn't. I couldn't understand, like, what the. We were doing. Like, like, how are we gonna send the Taliban $80 million a week? Did you know that we were doing that?

No.

We were sending the Taliban $80 million a week in cash.

In cash for what?

Great question.

Then we already gave them $83 billion equipment a week. Maybe they needed the fuel week.

We did.

Wow.

And. And so I started, you know, sending up flags through my podcast on that. Got a lot of politicians involved to try to cut that funding. But basically what it was is, is we. We were sending. Basically we were funding Afghan NGOs or, or non profits without looking into them at all. And so the Taliban. I can't remember the exact number. It was like 900 new NGOs since the like within the first year of the Afghan withdrawal. And those were all set up by Afghans. And so I don't want to go too far into that.

It's, it's unbelievable.

Taliban. Sorry. Not set up by Afghans.

Leakage like that. Nobody. You know, you always hear about the.

You know, the, or nonprofits without looking into them at all. And so the Taliban, I can't remember the exact number. It was like 900 new NGOs since the like within the first year of the Afghan withdrawal. And those were all set up by Afghans.

And so five thousand dollar toilet seat that made it through the government. But, but to think that there's holes that big that could be filled.

I don't want to go too far into that.

It's, it's unbelievable.

Sorry. Not set up by Afghans leakage like that. It's crazy, man.

Yeah.

You know, and, and, and then to see people not want to give it any light a day because it makes their, it makes their guy look bad. It's like do you have any fucking. People are going to die. Like 911 was a $500,000 nobody.

You know, you always hear about the, you know, the budget.

We're sending them $80 million a week. How the do you think this is going to turn out?

Yeah.

You know, and it was that. It was the border. It was, it's Ukraine.

It's five thousand dollar toilet seat that made it through the government. But, but to think that there's holes that big that could be filled.

It's crazy.

Yeah.

You know, and, and, and then to see people not want to give it any light of day. I don't even know why I'm saying was because all this is still going on. But yeah, it's, it's our power grid. It's the Chinese state. It's. It's our. Because it makes their, it makes their guy look bad. It's like do you have any. People are gonna die like 911 was a $500,000. Our, our. The hell am I trying to say? Our budget. We're sending them $80 million a week. How the do you think this is gonna turn out? Yeah, you know, and it was that. It was the border. It was, it's Ukraine. It's. I don't even know why I'm saying was because all this is still going on. But yeah, it's, it's our power grid. It's the Chinese state. It's, it's Our, Our. Our. The hell am I trying to say? Our. The supply chain, you know. Do you know about the power grid, how vulnerable that is? Water supply?

Like it is unbelievable how, you know, I, I'm not a doomsdayer, but I, I have an off the grid place in Colorado that's, you know, solar fed electricity, glacier fed, spring water well and septic, no bunker, you know, but we've got our own little 50 acre slice of paradise out there. And I'll tell you what, I'm happier out there than I am in this beautiful place in Miami.

Yeah.

And it's super basic, you know, I got a freaking, you know, I, I've got a propane stove and little fox that comes onto the, you know, porch every night. I get this freeloading deer. They eat my flowers every day. And it's just, it's amazing at the Razors that you just rage around the mountain. They got a shoot range on the back of the property and it's at 10,500ft. When you spend the summer up there and you come back to Miami to sea level, you feel like, you know.

Yeah.

You just got limitless pill, you know. Yeah, it's. My workouts for like four or five weeks are incredible.

It's like simplistic sleep.

Yeah. But it's, it's simplicity. I was talking actually Devin Levesque about this and he's got this incredible micro farming concept that he's building these communities around, you know, animals that are, you know, being raised and then, you know, turned into food and, and raising your own vegetables and, and, you know, growing your own food and building a community around it and having these membership clubs that are actually built around sort of getting people back in touch with nature and into a community where you're just doing the basic sauna, cold plunge, you know, conversation, clean whole foods. And in an environment where you're back in touch with nature. And I so identify with that because nothing makes me feel better. None, none of all this fancy equipment. I probably got a million half dollars worth of equipment in this apartment, but then put on a 20 pound rucksack and, and going for literally a four mile walk in the woods. Yeah. Not even kidding. Like, I get back from that and I tune into myself and I'm like, holy, I feel amazing. I put on a heavy vest and a pair of boots and I grabbed the water bottle and just did this little four mile hike. And I wasn't even trying to like, you know, bust my own balls. I wasn't trying to push myself so Hard to, To, you know, to, you know, even improve my fitness. It's just walk in the woods with the 20 pound rucksack.

Yeah.

And, you know, you don't realize how simple that is. And, you know, there's a lot of evidence now that exercise is more impactful than SSRIs for treating, you know, depression. Like they say, you want to, you want to fix somebody's depression, push them in cold water. Right. Push a sad person in cold water and see if they're still sad when they get out, you know?

Yeah, it's.

It's, you know, and it just reminds me so, so much how, you know, just getting back to the basics can be so profound.

Can I just. Can I say we were talking about, you know, what the election meant to me.

Yeah.

And I just want to say, you know, that I think. I think part of the reason we got to where we were is because people in this country are scared to tell the truth and to stand up to that. They don't like.

I agree.

And here we are now, right. We. We got through that four years, which was a disaster. And. But you know what it was. It was people like you and people like me and Rogan and Lex Friedman and all these podcasters.

Yeah.

Who. Well, actually, I can't even say you're.

Able to get around the media.

A small handful of podcasters who. Who don't care what people think of them and aren't scared of what might happen for just asking at in Tucker. Asking questions. Just asking questions. The right questions and standing up against this just, just from talking on a podcast, you know, and, and so. And I think it's podcasts that pulled us out of this because the mainstream media was putting out garbage. I mean, was. Still is.

I just saw an announcement today of a reporter that just announced he's gonna write a hit piece on me. Did one on Rogan, one on Joe Dispenza, did one on, like, Huberman and Ag Greens. And now he's like, you know, just made the announcement that I'm his next.

Congratulations.

Yeah, I know. So I feel like I kind of won the lottery. I'm like, wow, somebody actually wants to put my name on that journalistic. Do it on both of us.

But what I want to say is, I mean, we're all still here. None of us are in prison, none of us are dead. Our businesses are all exploding because we did that. And so when it starts to get tough again, don't be a. And speak up and.

Yeah.

And. And say what's on your mind.

Yeah.

And maybe we won't wind up here again, because that's what happened.

I think that's a. That's a very valuable lesson learned. Well, look, this is. This has been amazing. I wanted to make sure that before we close things out that I. I talk about your. What's a day in the life of, like, your daily routine look like now? I mean, because the drugs and the alcohol are gone, the benzos are gone, the Adderall's gone. All of those things that sort of blurred the lines between daytime, nighttime, reality and fiction, those are. Those have all moved out of your life. You got two beautiful kids, an incredible marriage. I. I hear you speak about your wife, and you hear you. The changes that you went through when your son was born. So what is it? What is it? What is a day in the life look like now? I mean, do you have a cold punch routine? Do you have a morning routine? Do you have a exercise routine?

I have a light exercise routine, but.

I think a Navy SEAL would have a pretty intense exercise routine. You feel like you exercised enough back in the day that you're good?

Pretty much.

You banked it, but you put so many deposits. So what is it? What is it? What is a day in the life look like now? I mean, do you have.

No, I do. I do a light workout every morning, and then, to be honest with you, Gary, me and my wife are.

A cold punch routine. Do you have a morning routine? Do you have a exercise routine?

I have a light exercise routine, but.

I think a Navy SEAL would have a pretty intense exercise routine. You feel like you exercised enough back in the day that you're good?

Pretty much you banked it or really trying to just figure out. Our big goal this year was health, and I'm glad to be a part.

Of that journey, man.

We have tried to.

I mean, we. We don't. But put so many deposits, I don't.

Know where to look, man. You know what I mean? So. So we've really. We've cleaned. No, I do. I do a light workout every morning. And then to be honest with you, Gary, me and my wife are really trying to just figure out in the diet up started going to a. What, natural. What do they call?

Naturopath.

Yeah, naturopath doctors. I don't know if you've. I'm not plugging them, but it's helped me. Our big goal this year was health.

I'm glad to be a part of that journey, man.

A ton. The Yuka app. Have you heard of the Yuka? We have Tried to. I mean we, we don't. It's like this app you put on your phone. You can pretty much scan. I don't know where to look, man. You know what I mean? So. So we've really. We've cleaned that.

It tells you what. What the contents of the grocery are. Yep. Yeah. I didn't know it was called Yuka. I have seen that before.

It's actually pretty good in the diet up started going to a. What natural. What do they call?

Naturopath.

Yeah, Naturopath Doctors. I don't know if you've. I'm not plugging them, but it's helped me. Tells you the additives. What the additives do to you.

Yeah.

And so I mean we've just.

We.

We found that app. We went through our entire kitchen in like one night.

So good.

Scanning a ton. The Yuka app. Have you heard of the Yuka? Everything throw just about everything out. All the we thought was healthy, turns out is horrible. It's like this app you put on your phone. You can pretty much scan.

Oh, it is. Yeah.

So we started doing that. Something we're really just trying that.

It tells you what. What the contents of the grocery are. Yeah. I didn't know it was called Yuka. I have seen that before. It's actually pretty good.

Tells you the additives. What the additives do to you.

Yeah.

And so I mean we've just trying to clean it up, man, and figure out. I mean it's like every day now I. I feel like I hear somebody, you know, dying of cancer. We found that app. We went through our entire kitchen in like one night.

So good.

Scanning everything throwing throw just about everything out. All the we thought was healthy turns out is horrible or high.

No cancer, you know, history. It's. It's. It's almost a one and two now. Oh, it is. Yeah.

So we started doing that some. We're really just trying to clean it up, man, and figure out. I mean, so we're trying to clean it up, you know, and. And I think we've done. I know we've done a really good job because I'll taste foods that I. I don't eat anymore after doing this for six to nine months. And I'll taste the chemicals and it's like every day now I feel like I hear somebody, you know, dying of cancer or high streets of childhood cancer, you know, history.

It's. It's got. It's almost a one and two now. Yeah, no, Devin and I were literally talking about how your palate Changes and like when you eat whole foods.

So we're trying to clean it up, you know, and, and I think we've done, I know we've done a really good job because I'll taste foods that.

I don't eat, brave whole nutritious foods. And without going too deep down the rabbit hole of the science behind it, but we have a hormone in our body released in our gut called GLP1. And essentially it's the, it's the satiation hormone. It tells us that we're full. And you know, big pharma also makes it semaglutide, you know, anymore after doing.

This for six to nine months. And I'll taste the chemicals in there.

Yeah. No, Devin and I were literally talking about how your palate changes and when you eat whole foods, you will go be. It was epic. But you, you, you can raise that in response to brave whole nutritious foods and without going too deep down the rabbit hole of the science behind it. But we have a hormone in our body released in our gut called GLP1. And essentially it's the, it's really whole nutritious foods like what we had in the kitchen before we came in here and highly processed foods, you know, unnatural flavorings, food additives, colors, dyes, preservatives, you know, chemicals, synthetics, artificial sweeteners. Those don't satiate us. The satiation hormone, it tells us that we're full. And you know, big pharma also makes it semaglutide. You know, wegovia's epic. But you, you, you can raise that in response to. Our body doesn't recognize them, so the brain doesn't think you've eaten and so it needs you to eat more. Really whole nutritious foods like what we had had in the kitchen before we came in here and highly processed foods, you know, unnatural flavorings, food additives, colors, dyes, preservatives. Because it needs the nutrients. I mean, it's a, it's an infinitely complex but very intelligent organ and it knows we have, you know, chemicals, synthetics, artificial sweeteners, those don't satiate us and gotten enough nutrients. So I mean, you're gonna, you're gonna eat again. Our body doesn't recognize them. So the brain doesn't think you've eaten, eaten, and so it needs you to eat more. And if you keep eating the same processed. I mean, this is why the obesity pandemic is it needs the nutrients. I mean, it's, it's an infinitely complex but very intelligent organ and it knows we have what it is. We want to push down on the obesity with weight loss drugs instead of pushing up on obesity with whole foods. You know, you look at videos from, we talked about this too, you know, from, you know, jfk, you know, like you look at high schools in the, in the 50s and the, in the 60s, I mean, gotten enough nutrients. So I mean, you're gonna, you're gonna eat again. And if you keep eating the same process, I mean, this is why the obesity pandemic is what it is. We want to push down on the obesity with weight loss drugs instead of pushing up on obesity with whole foods. You know, you look at videos from, we talked about this too, you know, from, you know, jfk, you know, like play fine the fat person. Like, they just weren't, they're all fit. They're doing muscle ups and climbing up the walls with their little handouts and, and running a mile and you know, under seven minutes and everybody's fit and lean and, and you know, now we've just, you know, we're the sickest, fattest, most disease ridden nation in the world of all the civilized nations.

It's crazy.

But you look at high schools in the, in the 50s and the, in the 60s play find the fat person like they just weren't, they're all fit, they're doing muscle ups and climbing up the walls with their little handouts and, and running a mile and you know, under seven minutes and, but this was, this is just incredible, man. I'm, first of all, I'm very excited and I'm, I, I, I take great pride in, in you trusting me to be a part of that health journey. Everybody's fit and lean and, and you know, now we've just, you know, we're the sickest fat. Excited to talk about that on, on your podcast, but before I wind down every podcast, I last, I ask all my guests the same question and there's no right or wrong answer to this question. And it's, what does it mean to you to be an ultimate human? Best most disease ridden nation in the world of all the civilized nations.

It's crazy.

But, but this was, this is just incredible, man. I'm, first of all, I'm very excited and I'm, I.

What does it mean to me to be an ultimate human?

Because I think you're an ultimate human.

I think for an ultimate human, you have to constantly think about how you're going to leave this world a better place than when you entered it. Be a good husband, be a good father. If you're not either one of those, then find somebody to mentor and make them a better person.

Wow. That's amazing, man. Well, I mean, this has been incredible, Sean. I, I, I want to have you back sometime, man. Your, your, your journey is astounding. You made a huge impact, and my audience is going to absolutely love this. Thank you for coming on, man.

I appreciate it.

And as always, that's just science, guys.