Wade Lightheart & Matt Gallant: Enzyme Fasting, Magnesium Science, NAD & Brain Training | TUH #187

It just hit me like the laws of thermodynamics. Energy can neither be created or destroyed. So I cannot create this energy inside me. So I must be drawing upon something.

That's where the supplement comes in. We're feeding the body a lot of raw materials.

The majority of what we face as human beings is not pathology or disease per se. It's a lot of it is nutrient deficiencies.

So the first symptom is people are stressed out. And when you're stressed, you actually leach more magnesium. Magnesium is really the best mineral to regulate your nervous system.

I am an enormous believer in the fact that the body's ability to heal itself.

You've got massive use of medications, over the counter stuff. None of that stuff works. That's something that the general public hasn't grasped. That the pill doesn't cure you, it just mitigates a consequence, and then you're on the circus of the next pill, the next pill, the next pill.

But I think one of the biggest things people realize, Holy. How much time am I spending thinking about food, preparing food, eating food, cleaning the food?

As I say, don't worry about all the bad things that you're doing. Just keep adding good stuff and eventually the bad things will fall away.

For someone that's just starting on their supplementation journey but doesn't know really where to get off the ground, where does the average person start?

I would say ritualize it, make it easy.

I mean, you can start if you want to really be, like, on the more conservative side, start with a.

Hey, guys, welcome back to the ultimate human Podcast. I'm your host, human biologist Gary Brecker, where we go down the road of everything, anti aging, biohacking, longevity, and everything in between. And today, I'm super, super excited because we are going to wander around the human body on everything, supplementation, gut, brain access, and everything that we can do to supplement from the outside to help us fix what's going on in the inside. And I have two very special guests, Wade Leithard and Matt Gallant from Bio Optimizers. Bio Optimizers. Or let's. Let's settle this one right now, because I have this debate with my team all the time. Is it bio optimizers, Optimizers?

Is it potato or is it potato?

Does it really matter? Right.

Doesn't really matter.

Okay. We actually bought the domain name with the two O's just in case people type that in.

Well, because the. Because the O gets so big, it's like Bio optimizer. So I figured that was intentional.

Well, you know, we also worked around. I wanted to do a big O with a little O in it and all these sort of things. And then that got, that got mixed a long time ago. So.

All right, let's go a little hydrogen, a hydrogen gas into our waters. So you, you have. Have a career. Oh, you're. That's a hydrogen bomb. He's getting serious.

Yeah, you know, I've been, I'm a hydra.

Wants to step it up.

Patrick. Patrick Flanagan. Flanagan, one of the original guys that wrote, wrote a whole chapter in one of my books and did the forward in a book I wrote years ago. And so that's why I got turned on to this, like 20 years ago.

Really?

And Patrick was into this like 40 years ago.

Wow, that's way ahead of his time.

Yeah, he was Interesting character.

So tell me, how, how did you two come together? I mean, what, what was the genesis of bio optimizers? As you know, I'm a huge fan of your sleep and magnesium formula, and I, you know, I don't want to turn this whole podcast into a commercial for supplements, but I want to talk about your, you know, your, your backgrounds. What brought you to buy optimizers? You know, what, what I find to be a common theme in a lot of my guests is that some of the most impactful people in the world, some of the most driven, passionate, impactful people have solved the problem in their life, right? Maybe, maybe it was, you know, drug or alcohol addiction, and now they're, they're really just a passion advocate for, for that. Or they had Lyme disease and they, they became a citizen scientist and they figured it out, and now they're an advocate for, you know, Lyme detox. And so what, what kind of road led you to where you are right now with bio optimizers?

Well, kick us off with how we met the first time. I only competed once in bodybuilding, and I saw Wade as he stepped on the scale at the weigh in and he flexed his lats. I'm like, holy shit, who is this guy? And then he won that show. I was in the juniors.

Oh, really?

Right on. We didn't.

1997.

So we have a, we have a.

Funny thing is like, back in 97.

Back in 90.

Like a kind of a little metaphor, like Al Bundy.

He would always talk about his high school days, football, you know, with Peg.

So that was the first time I saw Wade. But then I was a personal trainer where his mom used to work out, and Wade came back to visit his family, and we just struck Up a friendship. He was living the life that I wanted to live. He was in Vancouver, I was in New Brunswick and I was gonna moved to Vancouver. And Wade's like, hey man, come on over. And struck up a friendship. Wade was winning National Natural Bodybuilding Championships as a vegetarian 20 years ago, which is mind blowing.

Wow.

Yeah.

Natural and vegetarian.

Yeah.

Wow.

So. And I was building stuff online and I'm like, wade, I think you're. What you're doing is unusual enough that we can package this and sell it. So we created a product called Freaky Big Naturally.

Freaky Big Naturally?

Yeah. That was the genesis of our company. That was an infinite.

Sounds like a really, really terrible rap song. Yeah, well, let's leave that one alone.

Something left over the nitty party or something.

So.

So you create this, this supplement, Freaky Big Naturally.

But it was an info product.

Oh, an info product.

Yeah. So. And it was successful right out of the gate, you know, where we literally started this company with 100 bucks. And we were like doubling our money. We'd go on Google AdWords, spend 100 bucks, get 200 back, like, holy, this is incredible. And then Wade and I were really passionate about enzymes and probiotics. And Wade maybe talk a bit about Dr. Michael O' Brien and how we learned about that because that was really a turning point for us, shifting us from the bodybuilding paradigm to health.

Well, I think there's a couple elements Matt and I have been successful from. The dynamic tension that's created between both of us and a shared passion which is transform people's health, vitality. We were both personal trainers and he was a great marketer. And I didn't know anything about marketing. I just said, I'm just going to walk around shredded all the time. That's my marketing. Right. It worked. Right? Right. It wasn't very scalable.

Right.

He also approached things from more of a ketogenic side and I was approaching things from a plant based side. We were doing radical experiments inside of that. And so. But the one element that was really, you know, unifying for us, one, we came from the same part of the world, very rural areas, very humble beginnings. He was on the French side of the river, I was on the English side of the river. There was a lot of commonalities and we fell in love with transforming people's health as a personal trainer. Number one job satisfaction in the world. If you do all the polling.

Is it really?

Yeah. And I believe it's because you're getting that human to human connection.

Yeah.

Where you're taking somebody and transforming something that they can't literally buy. When someone has wealth, they can buy everything else in the world. But you. You have to develop the cultivation, the discipline, the practices and the principles. And because they're so time constrained, they need to trust somebody to take them through the journey, which is maybe their lifestyle is taking them out from. And we had a passion. We had. We both had incredible track records from that. However, we knew there were some missing elements. And after I competed at the Mr. Universe contest back in 2003, I ran into a whole digestive health crisis. I gained 42 pounds in 11 weeks.

Oh, my God.

So I was in an inflammatory nightmare. And we met this guy. His name was Dr. Michael O'. Brien. He looked like a castoff of Cocoon. He was just like, in his 70s. He had vibrant skin. He gave a lecture, you know, six weeks after he had broken his back. He didn't eat during the whole lecture. It was 14 hours. He had all this energy. We're like, okay, I want to be like him, right? And, you know, after the seminar, we went up and talked to him, and I said, listen, you know, we've had all this success. Some things went wrong. I am supposed to be this ideal picture of aesthetic perfection, but something's not working here. He says. And he said something that change the course of our lives. And he said, wade, you've learned to build the body from the outside in. I'm going to teach you how to build the body from the inside out. And he introduced us to the concept of probiotics and enzymes and special amino acids and antioxidants and gut health. And then all of these elements which were pre, you know, way, way, way before the concept of biohacking or methylation or like, he had just figured this stuff out. He had overcome colon cancer, cirrhosis of the liver. He'd help Bernard Jensen.

And what was his background? Was he a scientist?

Yeah, he was a doctor. And he ran three.

Three medical hospitals.

And then, of course, he ran into all of the same problems that people that are going fixing people in that industry have. So eventually he fought in court, you know, four or five times. And eventually he said, I terminated all my stuff so that I can go off and do what I do. He's actually referred to in Come Alive in Bernard Jensen's book of how he helped him overcome cancer. And really, yeah, metastasized to the bone. It was a horrible case. You know, he was 80, 84 pounds at 78 years old. O' Brien went in there and in eight weeks, in one day had him cancer free at 116 pounds and dedicated the book to him. And so you know, Bernard Jensen wrote.

The book and was this diet and.

Lifestyle enzymes, particularly around hyper dose, massive dosages of enzymatic therapy, a special strain of probiotics and then a few bit of antioxidant kind of delivery nutrients.

Wow. And so I mean did he. So he was licensed to practice medicine or he was just.

He was. And then eventually gave it up because he kept going before the board because he was curing people. Problematic sounds.

Yeah, it's really.

So anyways, so a shame, but he became a mentor for us and we literally, you know, became the best students we could possibly bleed and learned everything that we could. We both went on his program. Six months later I'd recaptured my physique. But unlike just looking good, I had a new level of health, vitality, energy.

What was the retention from, what was the water retention from? Because for somebody who's been, had been as active as you were and, and bodybuilder, I imagine you're pretty disciplined about your diet. You're pretty disciplined about your caloric intake and you're, and you're regimented and disciplined with your routine. What all of a sudden flick the switch? Not like you went off the deep end.

Well, I always think that you never want to reduce things down to a single element. I would say it was a combination of elements. In order to qualify for that show, I had to do a bunch of competitions and I was in a, almost a perpetual competition diet for approximately two years, including the last 11 months. I started my diet cycle and then, you know, I hit this championship. I won that. I had to keep going. I had to keep going again. Keep going again.

Right.

So the caloric restriction, the you know, intense level of training, the specialized dehydration to go to go into the show. And keep in mind what was different than say a lot of biohackers or a lot of bodybuilders? Because I think bio bodybuilders are the original biohackers.

Yeah, yeah, they are, are, are as good, if not better than most physicians at peptides or hormones.

Yes.

And you know, we think that they're just these cavalier just, you know, squirt all kinds of, you know, illicit drugs into their butt. But they, they're actually some of the more skilled. I mean they go and they, they, they read the research, they're, they're generally the ones that are more up to speed on their, on their blood work and their Labs and things too, because they understand what's putting them.

They have to be.

Yeah, yeah.

Well, there's a couple elements. First, they're trying to overcome two distinct factors. One, the genetic propensity to store body fat. They're reducing it to maybe a suboptimal level, but they're disrupting that genetic tendency and they're disrupting the genetic tendency to not build an excess amount of muscles. In order to do that, you've got to get really clear about things, not only from the science, but also on your intuitive awareness of how things are working, making you feel and transforming. Now, unfortunately, that's more to an aesthetic side and not necessarily to an internal health.

Right.

So for me, the whole bodybuilding journey, I didn't have the great genetics for it or things like that, but it became a point of reference and discovery and experimentation that I could apply things in a real world environment, test them, experience them, say, yeah, that feels something. Now can we find out how we can make that better? Or who's the scientist that we can get to kind of bridge the gap between what I'm noticing, feeling and understanding to what actually makes scientific sense and can that be deliverable to a grand scale? And we had a passion about that because he had a whole toolbox that I had never seen before. I had a whole toolbox that he had never seen before. So we had these ridiculous debates, you know, like, you know, is keto better or plant based better? It's like, what about lipids versus carbohydrates? You know, all those classic conversations we were having those 20 years ago, and it helped us round out our understanding of essential tools.

So let's go into the, you know, let's go down the road of the, you know, the enzymes and nutrient absorption. Because we talk a lot about on my podcast and I talk a lot about methylation, methylated nutrients deficiencies leading to different physiologic outcomes. My audience is very familiar with that. But we don't talk a lot about enzymes and the importance of enzymes. And one of the things that you said was this mentor of yours sat you down and talked to you about enzymatic reactions in the body and enzymes. Because at this point you hadn't started Bio Optimizer, Right? You're just curious in your heightened state of awareness and wanted to learn in this field. But what was the big aha moment.

That when we started taking his.

His enzymes and what were his enzymes?

They were just a blend of different, I mean, lipases, proteases, amylases, yeah. But when we started hyper dosing using maybe 20, 25 capsules a day, there was a lot.

Wow.

Yeah. Which is. I'd say that's a mid level. You can go.

I've heard of people doing that fasting too.

Yeah, that is the key. I've topped out at a thousand as an experiment. I don't recommend it, but.

Right.

You know, you gotta have a lot of energy.

Really.

Yeah. It's just certainly a high in a cognitive clarity that's really.

So you take the high doses of these enzymes assume like digestive enzymes and you don't eat. So you're fasted, you're in a prolonged fasted state. You and, and you're and. But you're taking high doses of enzymes. How long would you do something like that?

Well, here's some mind blowing research that was done with some athletes.

Okay.

You can cut recovery time with a lot of injuries by over 50%. So there's a great book called Enzyme Therapy. Enzyme Therapy, one of the best books. If you really want to get into.

All the research, Food Enzymes for Health and Longevity is kind of a deeper dive as well on that one's a great one.

But here, here are some examples. Hematomas from 15.6 days down to 6.6. Swelling 10 days to 4. Restriction of movement 12.6 days to 5. Inflammation, 10.5 to 3.8. Unfit for training 10.2 days down to 4.2. And they did a bunch of research with boxers and karate athletes. And if you take the enzymes on an empty stomach, they're going to go into your bloodstream. And when you're talking about the fundamentals of health of the body, it comes down to your body's ability to make proteins. Right. We don't even know how many proteins our body's making, but the estimates are it's over a hundred thousand. The building blocks of all that is amino acids. And one of the amazing things with Mastimes is in the lab there's an experiment called InfoGEST where we can simulate the digestive system. And when you take food with mazdymes, you're going to get 1200% more amino acids in 30 minutes than if you don't.

So if you just took the mass enzymes.

Yeah. With food, 1200% more amino acids in 30 minutes. And again these amino acids do all the things that we're looking to do, whether it's rebuilding our organs, recovering faster, et cetera. And if you think about all the health problems that occur from allergies, inflammation, a Lot of those are coming from undigested proteins.

Yeah.

Floating in the bloodstream. And if you can get proteases in there, it'll help break those down. And of course, when we're fasting, we're trying to maximize autophagy. And in our opinion, the enzymes accelerate that and take it to another level. So when we're fasting, we'll do 50 plus enzymes a day. Right.

So, so I, you know, I think people, because they're called digestive enzymes, and we think of digestion as being something.

That, for just for digestion, you know, but you won't, you won't generally find enzymes in your stool. So you get a systemic, it'll be converted into a systemic enzyme. And that was one of the elements that we started to experiment with, to draw full circles from our original conversation, where we started this is, why did I have that inflammatory response in the body? Well, I was trying to adapt a meat eating mentality to a vegetarian diet. And I was bridging the gap using, you know, low grade protein powder. Yeah, exactly. To try and bridge that gap. And so by doing that, over the course of that time, I was also following a high carbohydrate diet in combat, like, like simplified carbohydrates to create an insulin spike, to drive amino acids for recovery. So I was creating an effect that I looked a certain way when it can have a certain fullness, but my internal state was getting destroyed. And so as soon as I stopped, you know, between all of those elements, as soon as I got out of the rigid discipline, the calorie restriction, the excessive training, the massive amounts of protein, undigested proteins. According to my system, my body went into a reactive phase. So I see the inflammation is swelling as a safety mechanism. After I gained 42 pounds, I actually felt better. Really, I felt better other than the fact that I can't move and I got sleep apnea and all these things. But like, my brain felt better. And so it was like my body was taking that out of the internal states, depositing it into some element to deal with. And then Dr. O' Brien came in, I put that in, you know, it was just like magic. And so I saw the difference. Over the course of four years, we coached about 15,000 people worldwide to do these enzymatic experiments and proteolytic probiotics in.

Your mass enzymes in the powder form. So when you say 50 times, you mean 50 scoops of that. Okay, so basically just. Yeah, 50 capsules.

You can open up the capsules. Yeah, one of the one of the hacks, if you will. If you throw the enzymes in a protein shake, if the, when it gets to room temp, you'll start tasting the protein converting into amino acids.

Wow.

And one thing that's, I think highly underrated is intra workout nutrition. People use pre workouts, you know, take energy, some caffeine, whatever, and then people do post workout. But there's some good research showing that if you're drinking and sipping on amino acids while you're lifting, you're going to recover faster, gain more muscle mass. And it makes sense because as soon as you have strain or stress on a muscle tissue, the recovery starts immediately. So you really want more amino acids in your bloodstream while you're lifting to maximize recovery, maximize gain.

Definitely agree with that.

So you can use, you know, two caps with your protein shake and then again you'll get more amino acids.

So, so even though you're taking a regular protein shake, just add the enzymes. I'm still fascinated by this whole concept of fasting and taking large amounts of, of enzymes because, you know, the, the enzymes are not just once they've crossed the blood brain barrier, they're not just working in your digestive system, they're actually working in the blood.

Well, here's, here's the conceptual idea for people. You've got 25,000 different enzymatic processes and they're discovering them all the time. So everything from thinking to blinking requires some sort of enzymatic activity. But a large amount of our enzyme production is diverted to digestion. We're the only species on the planet that eats our food in a cooked state. All cooking destroys enzymes. And so there's advantage of cooking, storing and all that. So pasteurization, right, Sterilization, whether all of those things are essentially making food so it doesn't decay, that gives it shelf life. And there's a lot of advantages to it. I'm not dis. But what we. If you have a cow or a horse eats grass in its raw state, a tiger eats, it eats, you know, raw meat, it eats the zebra in a live state, a bear can go either way as a herbivore can eat the. But it's always getting both the enzymes and the nutrients inside of that. So there is specific enzymes to that plant or that animal that are being activated upon the digestive process. So you're not just getting the nutrients, the protein, carbohydrates, the fats, the vitamins, you're actually getting the enzymes inside of that. And Howell outlines this with whales and cathospin activation when an animal dies and is killed and then it accelerates digestion. But at the ultimate state, if you've got say 100, let's just use an arbitrary number, 100 units capacity of making enzymes in your body. And 80 of those are being used up because you have to augment your digestive process. Well, you only have an availability of 20% of your enzymatic production to perform all of these other functions. So the value of fasting, and so we did this tests ourselves, we would look at changes in our bodies and everything when we would do fasting protocols. And I said, okay, well if that's true, then if I take a mega dosage of enzymes while I'm fasting, can I accelerate the benefits and the results or alleviate some of the liabilities of extended fasts? And across the board, it made it easier. I felt better, the detoxification was accelerated and it was much easier. It was much easier. It was so much easier and I felt so much better. And for people that were doing, you know, I went through the whole process starting with 1 days and then 3 days and then eventually moving up to a 10 day water fast only. And you know, I did all the juice fast as an experimental, just do.

Like a little, what a little mineral salt and then the enzymes. The digestive enzymes.

Yeah, yeah.

Because I've done everything except the digestive enzymes in a fast.

So I think that's what except accelerates the mechanism of fasting is the freeing up of your natural enzymatic production. So what we're doing is we're augmenting it through exogenous enzymes, mass lines particularly that focuses on a high amount of protease because we feel that's the most bang for your buck.

And just to back up what Wade is saying, they did an experiment looking at if people use enzymes, what happens to the liver. And they found that one group that used enzymes, their AST levels were even versus the other group where EST levels went up, which shows basically, hey, let's relieve the liver from some of the work it needs to do. The enzymes can do a lot of the work. And just to highlight the criticalness too of enzymes in the body, when you have a fever and your body's increasing temperature at every degree Celsius, enzymatic activity is double it. Ah, so your body's trying to get.

More enzymatic activity by raising its temperature.

Exactly. And it is one of the things.

I've read a lot lately about, you know, parents being advised not by pediatricians not to treat the fever in Their kids, obviously, if it gets above 103 and you have severe fever, but. But not to just freak out every time your kid has a fever and in fact, purposely to let them ride through it. Part of which is because the increased in enzymatic activity, but part of it is this is our natural, you know, defense mechanism. And there was a really good article written by a pediatric pediatrician in, in, in Los Angeles that he tells, you know, all of his female patients when they have children that not to. Not to try to break the fever.

Enzymes is a deep world. Like pretty some people for an example, and Wade's one of them. They don't digest fats that well. I know you're mostly a ketogenic guy. Some people don't have. They don't produce enough lipase. So for someone like that, using lipases will help them break down the fats into essential fatty acids. And because again, you don't want fats floating in your blood, you don't want proteins floating in your blood.

Very true.

And the enzymes help with that. And on the carbohydrate side, you will get. You can break down carbohydrates. I mean, if you look at a banana, why does it go from green to sweet? Because of the amylase that's breaking down the starch into sugar.

Right.

So again, athletes can use enzymes to get more glucose faster into their body, which again, when you're working out, you want.

Makes a difference.

You want glucose.

Yeah, that makes a difference.

Yeah. So they families, you know, proteases break down protein, amylases break down carbohydrates, lipases break down fat, cellulases break down plant fiber.

Right.

And I believe this is totally a theory, but people are genetically predetermined about different sites of dietary strategies because of maybe enzymatic favorability or disfavorability in there.

I could see that.

And so we would and we tested that with each other. It was a. And you know, he was like, fats, fats, fats. I'm like, every time I go high fat, dude, like, it's in my stomach stool. I'm not. And I don't feel good. And you know, he didn't like the high carbohydrate rich diet, which seemed to work well for me with a low fat. And so we're like, well, how do we resolve this? Yeah, he was right.

Listen, there's what I share on this podcast and then there's what I share with my inner circle. If you've been following me for a while, you know how I hold nothing back here but my VIP community. That's where the real magic happens. Picture this. You're struggling with energy crashes, brain fog, or just feeling like you're not operating at your peak and you don't know where to get real, real answers. But here's what really sets this apart. You're not just getting my insights. When I have incredible guests on the podcast, VIP members get to submit questions for a private podcast segment. So that world renowned expert we just interviewed, you get exclusive access to their knowledge tailored to your specific situation. This section is under the private podcast section in the Ultimate Human Community. And speaking of exclusive, you're getting my personal protocols, the exact tools I use for water fasting, gut optimization, and morning routines that have taken me decades to perfect. This isn't theory. This is what works in the real world. The community launches challenges throughout the year where you get direct access to me and my network of experts. It's like having a personal health advisory board for less than a hundred dollars a month. Your health is your wealth. And this investment pays dividends for Life. Join the VIP community at theultimatehuman.com VIP and step into your ultimate potential. Now let's get back to the ultimate human podcast. So I, I, I also, you know, I am a, an enormous believer and the fact that the in the body's ability to heal itself. I'm also a big believer in the power that this has over this and that the majority of what we face as human beings is not pathology or disease per se. It's a lot of it is nutrient deficiencies. And one of the big ones is magnesium. And I know that you guys are, you know, have lots of ways to help people with magnesium deficiency, but I wonder if you might talk about the most immediate symptoms of magnesium deficiency and your experience with just that, that one simple light metal. And then I'd love to go down the road of other nutrient deficiencies and what kind of expression of disease or pathology or what we would consider consequences of aging comes as a result of those.

Yeah, magnesium is really the best mineral to regulate your nervous system. So the first symptom is people are stressed out. And when you're stressed, you actually leach more magnesium. So there's a vicious cycle that occurs when you have a lot of stress in your life. And especially if you're not consuming or supplementing with magnesium, you'll feel more and more stress. And I'm going to rewind back to the origin story of magnesium breakthrough, because both Wade and I were burnt out Wade was in Panama. I live in Panama. We were both, you know, working too much and we were fried. Wade came over one day and I have a neurofeedback machine. I wired his brain and his brain had less electricity than my 80 year old friend.

Wow.

And I couldn't drink coffee anymore. I drink a cup of coffee and I would just feel horrendous. I'd feel frazzled. My cortisol response was out of control. Okay, so Charles Poliquin told, told us about, hey, if you combine different magnesiums, you'll feel better.

Yeah.

And then.

And I was taking magnesium at that time. Turns out that I don't have the best genetics for absorbing magnesium. And I'm on a plant based diet, which could be disruptive. And I was drinking caffeine.

Right.

So those are three elements that are also on top of, of my ability to absorb magnesium. And I'm going, I'm taking magnesium. Why is my brain not working? And it felt terrible. I was like, oh, you can tell I screwed up.

Brain fog.

Oh, yeah. And then inability, anger, explosiveness. Because. And that's not my. Yeah, well, I'm not. That's not my natural state. It's probably just like go off or whatever.

Right?

And I was like, man, okay, dude, we gotta check this out. And we're big into neurofeedback. And that was like, okay, here's the sign. How do we figure this out?

Yeah. So I started combining four different magnesiums and really hyperloading. When I say hyperloading, I got up to 5 grams a day, which is a lot. But after five weeks, my baseline level was Zen. It was a level of Zen, really, like just normal, without meditating, without anything. Told Wade about it. He experienced the same thing. And then I'm like, well, how can we take this to another level? Let's try combining seven of the best magnesiums. Let's add some cofactors. And then we've built multiple variations or upgrades of the formula. And it's one of the best selling magnesiums in the world. But that was the origin story.

What would you say it is primarily used for? Is it sleeping? Regularity, Sleep and stress? Because I notice when, when I take it, I'm very regular. I'm usually regular anyway.

But like, well, the magnesium pulls water into your intestinal tract. I mean, you can use magnesium oxide as a flush.

Yeah, yeah.

You know, if you're fasting and you really want to clean out your bowels.

Yeah.

You know, because it just sucks so much water. And this creates literally a flushing Effect. One of the things that we try to do with magnesium breakthrough is to make sure that it's getting in the cells. So we've done thousands of in vitro experiments measuring every single magnesium. Because. So there's two big things when you're looking at a magnesium product. How much elemental magnesium is in the capsule.

Okay.

And the second thing is how much are you absorbing on a cellular level?

How does it list that?

Well, you can't, you cannot list the absorption.

Yeah, right.

But we just did our first animal trial and just to give you some stats, because the two most popular magnesiums is glycinate and citrate. Right. L3 and A is pretty popular as well. But the, this is serum levels of magnesium. It was 350 higher than glycinate. It was 233% higher than citrate. This is comparing magnesium breakthrough versus citrate and glycinate. And by the way, we've also. It's not released yet. Probably next year. Our chemist has created a new form of magnesium that crosses the blood brain barrier. It crushed L3 and 8 in the animal trial.

Wow.

So that'll be coming out next year. We're super excited about that. But, you know, I think what separates us as a company is the science, the level of scientific experiments that we do. We have a lab with 20 people full time. All they do every week is hundreds of experiments. We set up these battery of tests for each type of product that we do. And we'll do, you know, sometimes 18 months of in vitro experiments before we release a product. I don't know of any other supplement company that's doing that. And we do that for every single product that we release.

And, and how do you decide, like, what then the next product is? So somebody's listening to this podcast and they're like, these are all great little biohacks. Like, you know, I overdose on magnesium, or I take a lot of magnesium, so I'm regular, or I take these mass enzymes when I'm fasted. And I get a better benefit out of fasting, maybe brighter cellular autophagy. But for someone that's just, you know, starting on their supplementation journey, what would, what would be your, your recommendation? Because even someone is, you know, like myself, I go out on, you know, on Google, you get paralysis of analysis, your Resveratrol Coq 10 NAD and Ashwagandha St John's Wort. And you could probably make an argument for any one of those at any given time. But where does the, where does the Average person and the, the populace start.

I think they need to start out by fixing their digestion first. I think if you look at all the statistics is what 100 million people that have digestive dysregulation. You've got 12% of the emergency hospital journeys now are gastrointestinal related illnesses. You've got massive use of medications, over the counter stuff. None of that stuff is. The New England Journal of Medicine says we're here to treat the symptoms of disease, not to cure them. Yeah, that's something that the general public hasn't grasped. That the pill doesn't cure you. It mitigates whatever the consequence, but may have. It sets up another standoff and then you're on the circus of the next pill. The next pill, the next pill. So if you have. And when you're talking digestion is getting the right diet that's right for you based on your genetics. Do a basic genetic test, see what you need. Identifying what elements to optimize your gut, reduce a bunch of the toxins and things like that. You know, you know all about this. You've been.

Yeah. When you say what elements to detoxify or repair the gut, like what kind of things are you talking about? Because we know that the gut only has a single cell layer separating our inside environment from our outside environment. We were talking before the podcast about. Yeah, about biofilm, which I think if you said that to most people, they probably think of it as a negative.

Well, biofilm in the gut, basically you have probiotics or bacteria that have colonized.

Okay.

So they've literally created environments that they can live in. Now, depending on which strains are in your biofilm, it's going to be either good or bad. You can have bad bacteria that have colonized and they're creating havoc. Now one thing that's interesting about pro bacteria in general is they have a 48 hour lifespan. And I think one of the underrated benefits of let's say three day fast is you are drying out and killing a lot of the bacteria in your gut, which, which creates a powerful opportunity to recolonize when you start eating right. So think about it.

Eat the right things like.

Right.

Like kimchi, sauerkraut, the right strains.

Okay.

So the PhD that runs our lab, her PhD is in biofilm and probiotics. So we've done thousands of experiments not just on the things that we sell, but other products. We measure things like survivability. So we do seven different experiments on every strain. We test which bad bacteria can it Kill. So, for example, our probiotics breakthrough product, it'll kill E. Coli. So if you have food poisoning, it's undefeated. We don't know of a single person that has had food poisoning that probiotics breakthrough did not solve it in less than 60 minutes.

Really.

And we know it because it kills E. Coli. The lab, we see that.

Wow.

Another big problem with probiotic products is a lot of strains will kill each other. So if you're not doing the experiments, like if the formulators are not testing, hey, these individual strains.

Yeah, these are supportive strains.

Yeah. Or the bifido killing the elplantarum and things like that, you can create a formula. It's just a mishmash of maybes in a bottle.

Yeah.

So that's another issue.

What do they, what do they eat? That's another element. Right. Like what prebiotics that feed some bacterias, which strains. So what is the prebiotic that's with that probiotic and how that bacteria is going to survive on it? Because it works really well with this bacteria strain, not this bacteria strain, et cetera.

Well, the leak. What is leaky gut? Leaky gut is basically holes in your. The junction of your intestinal lining and food particles are getting into your bloodstream. And again, going back to. We don't want proteins and we don't want fats floating around. So the, the solution is you need to use a probiotic blend that seals, that reseals your gut. And the way you can measure that in terms of your biomarker is called zonulin.

Zonulin.

Yeah. So you can measure zonulin levels. If they're really high, you almost certainly have some level of leaky gut. We had Dr. Gus Vickery, we sent him some microbiome breakthrough. He tested on 11 patients. There was over a 90 reduction with all his patients that had high zonulin.

Wow.

And we know it in the lab.

What are some of the byproducts of high zonulin? What are some of the downsides of it?

Well, again, systemic inflammation.

That's.

That's the big one.

Brain fog.

Okay.

Right.

All the usual. Yeah.

You know, crusty eyes, bad breath, all those elements that, you know, show up, these are always symptom, symptomatic of deeper issues that's going on inside of the body.

So what happens in somebody's body that, let's say that you are deficient in magnesium, but you're also deficient in enzymatic production because enzymes are something that we produce on our own, and then those enzymes have like a lock and key mechanism that they use to fit to certain nutrients and help break them, help break them down. So like in your case, when you switched from being a plant eater to at some point being a meat eater, making that switch overnight or in too dramatic of a faction could have been very detrimental.

Yeah, I went the other way from a total meat eater to a plant guy. And there was two method. Reasons for that is I wanted to test in the real world some generalized assumptions. And going back to the proteolytic enzyme aspect, if you look at most of the research, it's one gram per pound of body.

Right? Right.

Okay. I always ask, and I would ask the question, we would ask the question, well, how much of that was actually converted into the amino acids that was used by my body? Nobody knows. So yes, maybe I'm 200 pounds, I put 200 grams in. The assumption is it's a 200 gram conversion of amino acids. You don't need protein, you need the amino acids that are broken. And then there's a process of breaking that down. You need enzymes, hydrochloric acid and proteolytic probiotics, which may or may not be present, especially if you've done antibiotics. You're getting older, you're not hydrated properly, you're eating a high processed, cooked diet. All of those things are disruptive because you need more enzymes to offset from your manufacturing. So if I go look back to real world, I was eating 250 grams of protein to support myself at around 185 pounds in competition against. And I wasn't. The other element here is I'm not using anabolics or TRT or any hormonal aspect. So I'm testing that in the raw. I'm not being supported by protein synthesis. We introduced the whole concept of proteolytic enzymes. We developed that product. Four years later, I went to the world championships again. I was in better shape, better condition, felt better, and I was eating 85 grams on a raw food, plant based diet.

Wow.

So it wasn't so much that the difference was I was able to convert that 85 grams into enough amino acids to support my training. And I think that's where a lot of the variances comes with different dietary strategies. When someone says that you need 0.5 and says 0.8, and now this is one point, I think it's what they're not identifying is, well, how well do you actually convert that? Very much like your methylation story. It's the same thing as, well, how well do you keep convert fats? How well do you convert carbohydrates? How well do you convert proteins? And that's directly correlated to either your natural enzymatic production or your exogenous supplementation of those enzymes. And so we said, hey, we can eliminate all of this. We can be successful in two diametrically opposed diets using the same strategy to optimize for a change. Yeah. So that's how we kind of hack that.

Yeah. And I think we need to change the story from protein to amino acids.

Acids.

I know you're a fan of amino acids. I mean, that's really what we want to get into our bloodstream. It's not protein, it's amino acids. And that's where I think the proteolytic enzymes.

And we talked about this yesterday too, on Rogan. I think that a lot of people still believe that we can target direct protein. So I always say, you know, we can't. We don't need our nails to grow our nails and we don't need our hair to grow our hair. Hair. But a lot of people think that we can just eat collagen and it'll show up as collagen in our skin and target directing it so that if I eat a bite of collagen doesn't just show up as collagen in our skin, it's going to show up as amino acids, which may or may not show up as collagen. Right. I mean, it's going to go build collagen, elastin, fiber, natural killer cells, muscle, whatever you're going to build from. From the amino acids. I am what it, what it sounds like with you guys. A much bigger fan of, you know, full spectrum amino acids or all nine of the essential amino acids than I am of just overdosing with protein.

Yeah. I would say like one of our general philosophies when it comes to supplementation. Back to your original question of what should people take? In a perfect world, you're giving your body the precursors, the building blocks that it needs along with the cofactors, and then your body's just going to do the work.

Right. On its own.

Yeah. If you give your body all the amino acids you're methylating well, which is obviously key, then your body can make all the proteins that it needs to stay healthy to stay optimized. So even when we build things like magnesium breakthrough, it's not just magnesiums. We're using Humic and Fulvic because we know we've done the experiments. It drives more Minerals in the cells.

Yeah. Wow.

So co factors, everybody's heard, anybody's look at supplements has heard of cofactors. People are underrating how big and impactful cofactors are. And we, we. I know that because we.

What are some co factors, common cofactors that people might be aware of?

Well, it always depends on what we're talking about.

Magnesium is a big one.

Yeah, magnesium.

Over 300 huge enzymatic reactions.

300 to 600. Right. And you know, they help with so many different things. And back to, okay, I'm a co consumer, I don't know what to buy. I'm overwhelmed. I think magnesium is a top three, top five supplement. Because if you're improving your sleep, everything in your life's going to get better. Almost every single biomarker is going to improve. I've been a sleep diva for over a decade. Spent over $45,000 on custom made mattress, Faraday cake. Eight sleep machine.

I sleep, have a night sleep. I have the whoop.

I nano be. Do you know the Nanobee?

Is that the one you breathe in? Yeah, yeah, I just saw that at a conference this weekend.

Folding. Yeah, it's great.

It does, yeah.

Yeah.

But if you go 45 minutes to an hour, you definitely notice a distinct difference in your recovery.

It shifts your nervous system into parasympathetic. So really, I'll breathe it in while I'm sleeping.

What, what exactly is it?

We don't know. The secret sauce.

Well, it's. Well, basically it's generating what's a concept called easy water, which is there's four stages of water, a solid, liquid, gas and then a crystal element. And by putting specific wave frequencies of light, you can kind of add this. So for example, when you look at this glass, if you look closely at the edge of that glass, it starts to curve up. And there, there was a. What was the doctor, what's his name, that kind of broke that research down. Pollock. Yes, Dr. Pollock. CELLS GELS in the engines of life. And he actually proved this. This tiny spectrum of water in this unique state, which he called easy water, had an incredible array of regenerative aspects to the body because it increased protein folding. And your cells do this. And so by the concept between that nanov machine is that if we can put that into our system, then we'll be able to excel. We'll be able to put more of this easy water into our respiratory system and that's going to trigger this increased protein folding. They've did a lot of research on it and I was like, okay, just let me buy one and I'll try and I really like it. But for me, you know, in a, you know, a hard training environment, I really notice a distinct dent of difference at 45 to 60 minutes if I'm on that and I use, after I use the nozzle, you know.

Yeah.

And I got it on. I'm sure I'm getting it in. Yeah.

The exercise with oxygen therapy, I do that with my parents.

But we got a nerd out on EWAT with Mr. Newts. We've, we've built a neck, we've built a next generation ewad.

Oh, wow.

After the show. But back to protein folding for a quick second. That is one of the drivers of aging is your body's ability to fold proteins gets weaker and weaker. If you've never read the Nine Drivers of Aging, it's a great paper, outlines kind of, you know, the nine main drivers and that's one of them. And nanov could help. But again, you know, how does your body fold proteins? It sequences a set of amino acids. That's the first phase. And then it, then it basically folds it and then your body has a protein it can use for all kinds of things. So if you're not folding proteins, you're going to start degrading. So nanobi can help with that.

So nanovi helps with that, but also the enzymes help with that.

Yeah, correct.

Let me tell you about something that's been a total game changer for my sleep and my stress levels. Buy optimizers. Magnesium Breakthrough. Here's the thing. Most people don't know. Regular magnesium supplements only give you one or two forms, but your body actually needs seven different forms to function properly. That's why you might be taking magnesium and still feel tired or stressed or having trouble sleeping. Magnesium Breakthrough is the only supplement that combines all seven bioavailable forms in just a single capsule. Within just a few days, I noticed I was falling asleep faster, staying asleep longer, and waking up actually more refreshed. Plus, my post workout muscle recovery has been incredible. If you're ready to finally get the deep restorative sleep you deserve and feel more relaxed during the day, head to buyoptimizers.com and use the code ultimate to save on magnesium Breakthrough. Trust me, your body will thank you. Now let's get back to the ultimate human podcast. Getting back to where, you know, a beginner would just start because again, you can really get paralysis of a natural.

Well, I'm going to use my parents because my parents are kind of, you know, they're just good examples and the biggest thing. And you know, for a long time they didn't take any of our supplements. You know, they're like, these are pills. What is this?

Well, when they raise you, they're like, they know that.

What do these kids know exactly?

But the magnesium in our sleep product has changed their life. My father doesn't sleep well naturally. Again, genetic thing, which I think I inherited and he. It's just been transformative for him. And they love the sleep products. They use the magnesium every night. My dad uses the melatonin Breakthroughs, a new product coming out. And then the. My mom uses Sleep Breakthrough and she loves it.

Wow.

So to me, that's like the ultimate testimonial. Having my parents, yeah, they're great testimonials.

But I'm saying like the, the average person that wants to, you know, start a supplement routine but doesn't know really, you know, where to get off the ground, you know, because if you walk into GNC or God forbid, get on Google, you're. You're getting prowess, you're done.

I think really most people should start with a genetic test, and I think they should spend the money to get a qualified person that can interpret that results for them and then identify where you're going to get the most bang for your buck. Yeah, you're going to pay a little bit more on the front end.

Right, right.

But now, instead of randomly shotgunning and doing like we have, who wants to do 40 years of experimentation, there's a tremendous amount of fails in that. And we spent our tremendous amounts of money, time, effort, energy, way outside the range. This is our passion. So I think if they go down that route and the key element is making sure someone can interpret that result, provide it in a language where they can go, hey, definable, easy, integratable, actionable steps that you do on a daily ritualistic basis. So start with something small that you can do regularly. And then, as I say, I used to do this with my clients. I'm like, don't worry about all the bad things that you're doing. Just keep adding good stuff and eventually the bad things will fall away. And it's just a slowly, as it goes process. But that key identifiable. We didn't have that ability to identify what your genetic weaknesses, what are the.

Factors that are going to be supplementing with. Right.

Because my mom and my dad are completely different.

Yeah.

And I'm a hybrid hybrid of those two and then no.

1.

What happened to the mutation there? They're like I don't know what happened to him.

I think genetic tests are awesome. And I think you also want to be adding biomarker tests.

Yeah, yeah, blood tests.

You need blood tests. I mean, there's your genetics, then there's your genetic expression and your environment, what you've been doing. And unless you're looking at your blood work, you're, you're guessing. So regular blood work is crucial. I just did mine and you know, there was some interesting stuff that I'd never seen before that if I hadn't tested, I might not have identified.

Yeah. You know, it is amazing how interconnected we are and how when certain blood biomarkers get off, we just assume that there's some kind of disease or pathologic process going on in the body. Like we saw all the time, you know, people that would have elevated, elevated levels of, let's say, C reactive protein, a non specific marker of inflammation. And when you would just fix their methylation, even these non specific markers of inflammation would go down because we don't really know exactly what's causing it. Maybe it was protein folding, maybe it was the poor level of enzymatic activity. But I just find that human beings function so much better when you give the body the raw material it needs to do its job.

Whole foods, regular protein servings for satiety.

Get the chemicals out.

Start there. If you can't it put, put it in the ground and plant it. Or if it doesn't walk around on the ground.

Right.

Probably not that good for you.

And if it, you know, going back to whole foods for a minute, is there any evidence that we can retrain the gut to produce its own enzymes? If, you know, if we supplement for a period of time, maybe even with the right probiotics, then we can retrain the gut to actually.

Well, the probiotics do produce enzymes. Like probiotics are these metabolite factories. Right. They're consuming some of the food, some of them will break down protein, some of them will eat carbs. And they're producing vitamins, they're producing neurotransmitters. We measured that in the lab. We have a half million dollar HPLC machine and we'll test. And I know you've been messaging a lot about this. How many neurotransmitters, which neurotransmitters are each probiotic strain producing?

That is so fascinating because you talk about the grub, a gut brain connection. You know, there's your driver of mood.

Serotonin, 95% of it's made in the gut.

Yeah.

So if you don't have enough amino acids or you don't have those bacteria cultures because you took some, you know, some antibiotics as a child because you were sick a lot and now you never recultivated that strain for the rest of your life. And you know, now eating maybe protein rich foods makes you nauseous and sick and you don't feel very good, you get gassy and bloating, you don't know why and you're constantly depressed. Well, maybe something happened way back in the day that never got corrected and the correction is relatively simple. That's why I said always start with your gut. Yeah, fix your gut. Is that gut. Brain connection is so deep as well as that's the delivery system to bring the nutrients to the factory. Enzymes are the trucks and active, active units inside the body. They're the workers.

Yeah.

You know, enzymes and probiotics are really the only things that do work in the body. Everything else is material.

And when you say fix your gut, I mean, I think a lot of people are like, I just don't know where to start doing that. I mean I tell people, you know, getting on a whole food diet, eating you know, lots of sauerkraut and, and fermented vegetables and curfewers and kimchi's can help. A lot of me, I feel amazing when I just eat.

I have fermented foods every day.

Oh, you do?

Oh yeah.

It's like grandmothers knew what the hell they were doing.

All the longest living health populations in the world use some sort of fermentation relative. Yeah, you look at, you know, you get into the natto's in Asia, if you look at the original stuff in Eastern Europe where they were looking at these long living populations, special kefir.

I always thought my grandmother was out of her mind because she had this like really crappy area of the basement with the like the creepy like old wood shelves and you know, the. Remember the mason jars and I, yeah, I had to press the top.

I still get that. I do go down to the basement at my house when I go home.

Always press the jar and if it, you know, if it pops up, throw it in the trash. If it doesn't, bring it upstairs.

That's right, exactly. We still do.

And like, you know, as creepy as it was, like now I want to get back to that, you know, the pickled onions and all that.

Everybody in my community did that. There was four centenarians on my street.

Where was this from?

A little place called Hillsboro, New Brunswick.

Really.

Which is up by Maine for those who don't know. And I'm way out there. In fact, one of the ladies that follow that, she lives down the street from us, she's 106 years old. But we had four centenarians and everybody had their pickles, Everybody had their fermented fish. Everybody had a regular garden. Everybody had a farm where they got their chicken or their beef. They got their eggs from the guy next door. So that were talking ultra pure, raw, local, sourced foods that all these people are doing and doing these fermented foods.

Yeah.

And drinking water out of a well.

Yeah.

Oh, wow. The genius of simplicity, right?

Yeah, yeah, very much so. So, you know, I think the, there's a couple of really great books, you know, by Dr. Perlmutter on the gut brain connection and it's Gut Brain Access, Gut Brain Connection and Grain Brain, which I found really fascinating. And over the years in our clinic system, you know, we did not see, I think we had about 160,000, maybe 170,000 patients come through our clinic system before, before I exited. And I did not see or even hear of a single person that suffered from anxiety or other mental health related issues that did not also have gut issues.

Same thing in my own 25 year old.

Yeah. Females that would have severe anxiety, they all had gut dysbiosis. All, all of them. And some pretty severe. And it seemed to correlate with the severity of the, you know, the symptom, the severity.

I know.

With the severity of their gut.

And you know, I coached thousands of clients and that was the same, same observations. Fix their gut, go on a basic elimination diet, get the chemicals out of their system and you know, then there's, then there's other elements that you can add. There's, you know, a whole array. That's where you get into, you know, mycelium and the various types of mushroom families that can also help augment for cognitive health. And really down that rabbit hole as well.

And yeah, when we can go down that rabbit hole. But before we do, like what's really exciting you right now? I mean, what's, what are you guys doing in the lab?

And man, you've opened up my favorite rabbit.

Yeah. Because I know it's exciting me. Well right now trying to figure out the pyramids, that's nothing to do with.

My, my favorite thing in the world is always creating something that's the next level of whatever rabbit hole we're into. One of the things is we have created. It's a 10 day experience we haven't commercialized it yet. We've only had our executives come in. It is the pinnacle of brain optimization.

And.

I'm going to say human transformation, it's beyond, it's evolutionary what's happening. And you do five days of prep, and then you do five days of hardcore hyper intensive neurofeedback. Different modalities, and we're pushing the boundaries of, you know, we're resetting the default mode network. We're feeding the body and the brain everything that we can to increase BDNF to maximize the gains. We're almost using like a bodybuilder paradigm of maximization where we're gonna push the stimuli to the absolute limit using different types of neurofeedback. And then we're gonna give the body and the brain everything that it needs to maximize recovery. So that after five days, your executive functioning is another level. You're able to shift states on command. Your EQ's higher, your level of consciousness is higher, your resilience is higher. And you can measure that. Like your cerebellum has about 80% of your neurons and you can train your cerebellum.

Wow.

So if your cerebellum is stronger. And I, and I did a ton of cerebellum training on the last time, on the last round, my resilience, my ability to handle stress has just gone to the superhuman level. There's no other way to say it.

And is this like an outpatient thing or is this a retreat destination?

It's like five people max. We've been doing in Sedona and we have a whole team there. Like, we're doing IVs before to prepare. We're doing hyperbarics. Like, we're doing everything that we can to maximize our physiology to handle the amount of training that we're doing.

Wow, that's. So, that's, that's actually really.

Yeah. So that's.

And then it carries like you do that week. And then you've got about two months adjusting to the new glasses because the whole lens of the world changes.

Yeah.

And then you got about another four months to what we call is full integration of your, your new capacities. And then, and then as soon as you're there, you're like, matt, Matt, it's, it's just time to go back.

Dude. I actually want to do that. You know, it's, it's, it's fascinating to me sometimes, you know, I do these challenges and I'll take. I had tens of thousands of people on a three day water fasting challenge. And I would say for 95 of them it was the first day that even fasted for 24 hours, much less for three days. And of all the challenges that I've had, I think that was the one that we got the most amount of feedback from people that were just like, it just, just blew their mind. How would that, how much of a change they can make in three days simply by eliminating food?

Yeah, well, I think one of the biggest things people realize when they do a three day fast is holy. How much time am I spending thinking about food, preparing food, eating food, cleaning the floor.

Yeah, because for no reason you actually will just get up and like walk towards the refrigerator and you subconsciously.

And you're like not hungry. Yeah, it's a subconscious driver that's just, you know, this goes into what I would say is the big debate that's going to talk about what's exciting and that is AI or what I call non biological intelligence.

Oh my gosh.

So biology, we have an operating system that's baiting on, you know, feeding, fighting. Well, you could put in the extra f. Yeah, yeah. But it's replication, in other words, to push my genes through and trying to fornicating. Yeah, yeah, there you go. That is the biological operation system which spring force all of our cognitive, subconscious, superconscious. All of those activities are built within that biological platform and they call artificial intelligence. I'm going, well, I think there's some uses, but we're really talking about booting up an intelligence platform which I call non biological intelligence. It doesn't have those requisites, so who knows how that goes. Maybe it's erupted by biology, but we don't know.

Right.

So there are certainly some interesting elements about how that biological platform can leverage this non biological platform because it strips out some of that which you can come to some conclusions that maybe you can't because of those unconscious biases. But then we don't know what maybe are some of the outcomes that that could have because very seldom does the stupid person control the smart person for a length of time, especially when it's scales up exponentially. Us as a species are sure, we, we're, we're at the epitome of it. We're not stronger or faster than most of the animals, but we've become the apex predator because our ability to work.

In networks and, and, yeah, and, and, and to reason. And I think, yeah, it's, it's both scary and fascinating at the same time. What did they, what did they say? That that AI's just reached. It's the. Where it's becoming self aware. Would they call that.

There's a term the singularity is.

Yeah.

Merge with the AI which is coming.

Well, I think we've passed the event horizon.

Yeah.

You know, and so we'll see how that comes out. And one of the reasons why we go back to why we're excited about this is because I think we're all facing a challenge. Why do you do this podcast? Why are we so passionate about this? Largely in part because we're trying to identify how to maintain, you know, biological function with a dramatically increased of these stressors inputs coming into the system. The amount of information you're getting, the amount of analysis paralysis that comes in from all these data points that our ancestors didn't have to deal with. The sheer load of electromagnetic pollution inside of the system.

Yes.

The deluge of biochemicals coming in and all these things. Then you wrap that under political and social conceptualities and what's happening. Like in martial arts, the person who's fastest again, you know, get the most amount of moves, can overwhelm that person's defense mechanisms and you're done. That's why a trained person versus an untrained person, it's over before it starts.

Yeah, yeah.

And so why, you know, we're so excited about this is we have found a way to at least, at the very least delay, but maybe optimize that transition using a way to accelerate our capacity to handle the inputs and still maintain our physiological equilibrium.

That's so awesome because I think the.

Biggest challenge, and I've talked to one of the smartest neuroscientists on the planet and this is what he brought up as a concern once we're fully merged is can your nervous system handle 10,000x more inputs?

Right.

Yeah. What's even.

Yeah.

Even if you have a chip in your brain, how's your nervous system going to handle that?

Exactly.

That's going to be a whole new level of shock. Yeah. We'll have to upgrade the hardware too.

Yeah, exactly. When it comes to snacking, Masa is flipping the script on what real food should look like. Masa chips are crafted with grass fed beef tallow, one of the healthiest fats on the planet. These chips are packed with essential vitamins like vitamin A, D, e and vitamin K2, all of which play a role in keeping your skin vibrant, your immune system strong, and your bones solid. But here's the real magic about Masa. Masa's corn goes through an ancient process called NIC stimulization, which makes it way easier to digest and it amps up its nutrient profile. Plus, these chips are low in PUFAs, so you won't find any of the inflammatory seed oils that you find in most snacks. And instead, Masa uses pure Redmond sea salt, giving you a natural hit of minerals that keep your cells hydrated and your energy steady. So don't just snack reach for Masa. It's real food, real health without any of the junk. Grab a bag and I promise you'll feel the difference. Now let's get back to the ultimate human podcast. I want to go back this 10 day experience because I, I, I, I love the, the movement that is afoot right now that if you, if you look at the greatest area of, of interest, fastest growing area of interest in the world. If you were to combine three categories of longevity, anti aging, which I would say are kind of the same thing, people use different terms, and bio optimization, you know, if you combine those, you have. I was reading a McKinsey report. You have the fastest growing area of interest worldwide. You know, in terms of likes, shares, forwards, comments, interest downloads and, and, and part of what people are super excited about doing is going to destinations, places and having a wellness experience. Not a massage and a facial and a foot rub, but yeah, transformative wellness experience. So I'm really curious, you know, what's entailed in this human optimizing 10, 10 day experience.

Yeah. So first it's, it's five days of prepping the body. We'll do 750 milligrams of Ned five days in a row so that you get mitochondrial fusion on day four, day five, because most people have just done. Okay, I'm gonna go do a bag of NAD, like 400 milligrams or 5, which you're gonna get an energy boost.

Yeah.

But when you do five days in a row, there is a new baseline of mitochondrial power that's going to last about 60 days.

Wow.

Yeah. Wait, wait, you just did it, right?

Yeah, it just got back.

Really? Yeah, yeah.

And I'm doing it when I get back to Panama. I think doing that two, three times a year by itself is a great addition. And I know you're a fan.

Oh, yeah. Huge fan of nad. So how many hours does that take?

Well, six. Yeah. Depending on what your tolerance of, you know, allowing the NAD into it and what the quality of the NAD actually is. There's a lot of, you know, low grade elements in it. And so I've seen people that'll take them, you know, three, four hours to drop a bag of 750 into them. And then, and you know, I've done it in as fast as 30 minutes, but wow.

7, 15, 30.

Yeah, but, but, but, but here's the thing. But here's the thing. You know, I remember the 30 minutes one felt easier than I was doing like recently. Like at this last one I had, I hadn't had one in a while. I was struggling on a couple of days. It took me like, you know, two and a half hours to get it in. And I was like, oh, okay. And what's the feeling? That nauseous? It doesn't feel good. It's like, oh, you gotta go fight through it. So. But it's worth it because, you know, I came out of that like someone just put me in a rocket ship and fired me up. We did. We're doing some other things, you know, some V cells and.

Oh, V cells.

Yeah, I love, I love the V cell thing. So we did that as well as some, some personal peptides that, you know, one of the things that we do prior to it is we preemptively, you know, screen the person, make sure they're okay. Psychologically and physiologically, they're ready to embrace this. They're, you know, maybe doing a little bit of prep beforehand, so they're, you know, on point coming in. And then we have an expert that does some of the analysis and says, okay, here's some of the benefits you could get from doing your drips that week. Plus, you know, we're doing some of the other tools like hyperbarics and all these other things.

So just love it.

Just get the body prepped for, you know, we're going into, you know, inner space. When you go into the brain training. My wife's taking her PhD in neurofeedback.

And that's the last five days, right?

Yeah, yeah, my wife's taking it. I'm in this really interesting state. So my wife's taking her PhD in neurofeedback and she's going to university to get this. Meanwhile, she's like, dude, they're not teaching this stuff at the university level. Meanwhile, like, you know, she's seen some of the experiences that we're having as like full on kundalini body things and a massive gamma spike. You know, really, we're off in another dimension, right? And now we've worked up to it. You know, Matt and I have been doing this for a number of years and gone through a variety of the different Modalities that are out there because there's this big umbrella of neurofeedback. And then under that is modalities.

Yeah.

And then there is application of expertise. So most of them are basically cookie cutter show. You show up, they have a technician and they run through it. They don't have the expertise to actually isolate the particular elements within your brain and to customize a training program specific to both your opportunities, as well as maybe addressing some of the ability they're training you for.

What are they training you to start?

You start with a brain scan. So the brain scan reveals basically, if you have too much hyperactivity and beta brain waves, for example, anxiety is usually a hyperactivity in beta brain waves in the prefrontal cortex as an example. But there's a lot of different brain pathologies that show up in that brain scan. And then you build a program to basically start fixing, optimizing those issues. Because, you know, and then you'll see in the brain scans, I mean, I've done 12 trainings.

12.

I've done this 12 times. Yes. And my brain scans now are, you know, near perfect versus in the beginning, I had all kinds of issues, right. Either hyperactive spots, flat spots, and those show up as personality traits.

And they show up five intensive days. Like, is there. There's nothing else you're doing for those five?

We're all in a. We're all. We're all together in a house. We've got all of the therapies coming into the house. We've got a chef in the house. So.

And then supplement stack would take two tables.

This is like for five people, right. It's like going in an F1 race. You're loading up and they got the pit crews and they got the elements and they got all that. That's awesome.

We have a world class chef. He was on tour with Beyonce and Jay Z. And of course, the food is as great as it gets. But even the supplementation that we use is we basically, when. When I started doing this, we were redlining and we were crashing and burning in different ways. Really, whether it was. You couldn't push yourself that hard. Yeah, we couldn't. So I'm like, okay, well, let me start optimizing. You know, the nervous system was a big one. Okay, we need more. We need more fatty acids. We need ketones. You know, for example, adding 50 grams of ketone esters a day was a game changer. Now we're playing with ketone acids, the next level with ketones. So it's a laundry list of things. We're using certain things that really take BDNF to the, to the pinnacle so that your brain is at as plastic and fertile as possible. And another highly underrated thing is resetting the default mode network. Because a lot of people are kind of stuck in certain perspectives and mental patterns.

Right.

But when you really deep reset your default mode network, it's like, whoa, I'm looking at the world with get fresh eyes.

Yeah.

And it can start making new decisions and start to see relationships and their life decisions in. In a fresh way.

And, you know, it's amazing. You know, in my study of methylation, I found, you know, when you look at certain genetic profiles, like compt, for example, people are either they call them warriors or warriors, right. And it has to do with how fast, how quickly, or how slowly they break down this class of neurotransmitters called catecholamines, these fight or flight neurotransmitters. And as these neurotransmitters rise, you're feeling fear. You might even feel anxiousness, anxiety. You could even have rapid heart rate and pupillary dilation and paranoias. And there's nothing necessarily wrong with him versus you. He just has a much higher level of catecholamine. And I, I find that, you know, people with that genetic profile, which my.

Wife has, I. I have it too. I'm genetic.

Are you a warrior or.

I'm a warrior, but I don't worry. And that's, that's the key point. Right?

That's what I mean. This would be amazing.

Yeah. It seems like, like, you know, that that's where, you know, we have our genes, but then there is the expression of genes and then obviously we can wire our brains in certain ways just to go a little bit deeper. You know, if we look at the brain from a brainwave perspective, like right now we're in a high beta brainwave state, which is great for focus.

And we're just alert. And we're alert. Okay. Yeah.

If you slow your brain waves down, usually between like say 12 to 18 hertz, they call that region like kind of SMR. It's like a flow state. So flow state, you're alert, but you're, you know, you're not as alert as, say, or hyperactive as, you know, 20 hertz to 30.

Calm, kind of.

Well, then you get into Alpha, which is 8-12 Hz, so that's Alpha. So now you're calm, but alert. Your heart, you know, if you're in gratitude and usually when people start meditating, that's the first stage in a lot of ways. Like you start calming your brain down and you're feeling, you know, and some of the hacks for that. There's a few hacks if you're meditating. One, if you can activate gratitude experientially like in your body, in your heart, your Alpha brain waves will go up. If you do forgiveness work, you actually do forgive, Your Alpha will tend to explode. If you focus on space, like outer space with your brain, your Alpha will go up. If you visualize your Alpha crashes, which is interesting.

Wow.

So when your eyes are open versus close, if you close your eyes, your Alpha should double automatically without even doing anything. Then there's the Schumann frequency, which is like between like 7 and 8 hertz, which is interesting. It's kind of hertz frequency. But then you get into theta, which is like my favorite place, 4 to 7 hertz. You know, Dispenza has a great expression for that, which is your body's asleep, but your mind's awake. Time dissipates, you don't really sense time anymore.

True.

And you merge with the field of consciousness. If you get deep enough where you're experiencing the field of consciousness, then below that you got Delta. Now Delta, obviously a lot of people have heard about Delta for sleep, but you actually can train Delta. And then you can even train in full low, which is slower than Delta. You can train that too, which is a whole other story. But the Zen master frequencies Gamma, which is above 40 hertz. And you know, when they, when they put electrodes on Zen masters that have been meditating for 25000 hours, that's their baseline. They've, they've been able to train that, develop that and function in that. And weight can attest that Gamma's state of alert.

Correct?

Right.

Well, it's, it's. Well, I'll you know, let wage almost.

Like not just even alertness. That's like an awareness beyond.

It's beyond.

It's like when those people are walking in, in, in completely dark rooms and they'll walk around objects that they can't see. Or, or they can say God becomes experiential. Exact. Exactly. What's on the other side of the wall?

God becomes experiential. It's no longer a theory or a concept.

So I've been studying East Eastern philosophy or a long period of time in the various yogas and meditation techniques. There's eyes down, eyes up, etc and the pattern I did is some people call it the microcosmic or get where you're moving energy. So if you were to talk about from the brain frequencies to what you would experience, you know, theta is like a download into the system. Alpha's like a broadcast across the system. Delta would be like, you know, Darth Vader powers, you know, telekinesis, all that sort of stuff. Stuff. But gamma is an organizing principle. So it's an ascending from the base up through the nervous system into that which is experiential. It can become like a cobra hood. You might have visualizations around that and then some of the deities might peer up. But other than all the visual aspects, which would be relative to your social structure, your religious structure, what you studied, all that element, the sheer amount of energy going through the nervous system is extraordinary. So you know, we could show you some pictures of literally that really the afferent nerve system isn't able to contain it. And the practice is, is that you want to hold that into the spine and take it through into the nervous system, which is what they are experiment, you know, experientially describing with the opening of the thousand petal lotus. Which means that all of the energy that is is generally being running out into the nervous system to run all of the organs. Because we're electrical based beings. That inversion through polarity brings that energy up and through the spine and into the brainstem. And from that now you have for the first time ever, full power in your brain. And it's pulled in through the back of your head. So sometimes, you know, I've gone through the experience of resistance. So when you don't quite have it, you'll start getting resistance here. You might feel a burning sensation because you're pulled through polarity through focus here on an eyes up meditation. So we have ways of unlocking and removing those blockages through different technologies. Then you might get the crown of thorns where you're literally feeling resistance inside of your brain. And then the electrical activity that you can measure on the eg is incredible.

Yeah, it explodes to prove it.

That's. But that's all the. That's all the wonderful stuff. The experience is amazing.

Yeah. But it's coming from somewhere. It's being generated. Which, which I still find is so fascinating.

It is.

Well, I think part of the problem from the.

You have to be pulling from the quantum.

Well, here's the.

Here's the. Here's the element.

The.

We've associated consciousness as being generated from the protoplasm. And that is a convenient separation from source energy.

Yeah. Because you. But, but if you can't give, even if you just. I don't mean to interrupt you, but that's okay. It just hit me like the, the laws of thermodynamics, right? It says that that energy can neither be created or destroyed. So I cannot create this energy inside me to, to, to create this type of EEG reading. So. So I must be drawing upon something.

Well, we're feed.

That's.

That's where the supplement comes in. We're feeding the body a lot of raw materials.

Got this. I mean, where do I get the 10 day experience? Reset, dude.

Yeah.

That's going to be the biggest seller on my podcast.

Yeah, we, we call it metamorphosis because there's no word, I think that describes the experience, the transformation, the evolution. I'll give you my favorite testimonial. He's our vice president and he came in and he was ready to leave his girlfriend because she wanted kids and he didn't. He saw his kid, his child on day four and now his child's 18 months old. He saw the child on day four, so. And that was it.

Wow.

And then like complete transformation from I think I need to leave her to this. I see the future. And. And they managed.

Now he has it. And how, and how does he equate the image of his child on day four to his real child?

I think it's. It is, yeah.

And I, I've had. Exactly, I've had. I had the exact same experience.

We banged a left turn in this one. Yeah, I mean, I see we've got all the magnesium malate, magnesium aspartate in here.

Well, these are all, all of these things I think are, you know, kind of what you're talking about is what is the definition of the ultimate human? We called our process.

I'm going to ask you that question anyway, so why don't we answer it now?

Yeah. Well, you are the ultimate human in the aspect that the fact that you exist means by whatever proclamation the reality there's non existence or existence. So the fact that you exist means that you're worthy, you're valuable, and you're this dynamic organism moving through time, right? That's the protoplasmic experience. And then you can go beyond that. The process that we're engaging in is to optimize that protoplasm so that it can access the full range of the human experience. But there's a level beyond that. That's what metamorphosis is about. Accessing that element that connects everything as one Singularity inside of the universe. And once you've stepped through that rocket launch, it felt like everything in life that I've been doing my whole life was leading me to that ultimate experience. And that's a gift. And I don't have to operate from a position of conjecture or ideology. I don't need validation from anybody. I don't need to go to a religion or a sermon or anything. Those are all wonderful and great. And I. And I. I'm not against or I'm certainly an advocate of practicing whatever practices you need to get there. But once you get to the final pinnacle, and it's like all you want to do is share that with as many people as possible. And I experienced that in my health journey, and now I've experienced it in my metamorphosis journey. And I'm just grateful more than anything else. Like, gratitude is the number one thing, and then that's also juxtaposition with empathy and compassion, because I see people suffering needlessly all around the world, constantly. I'm bombarded with it. And you have to manage that in that, hey, I could help all these different people. I could transfer these. Like, all they need to do is try. But, you know, you can't force yourself into people saying, I believe in free will.

Yeah, very true.

Love. Love what you're doing. I mean, we. During COVID we wrote a book called from sick to Superhuman. So on the same journey, you're trying to get people from sick to what most people consider normal health, which, in our opinion is you're just one step away from being sick to, you know, really biologically optimizing health. And then we're all, I think, striving for that impossible ideal of becoming a real superhuman.

Yeah.

And, you know, what would. How we. How would we define that? Well, maybe superhuman muscle mass or superhuman, you know, low body fast or superhuman biomarkers or superhuman mental performance. And, you know, we're trying to do our best to kind of push all of these to the next level. And, of course, you still have to operate as a human being, as a father, as a husband, as a business owner. So, you know, I think being superhuman in 2025 is okay, can I. Can I be a good father? Can I be a good husband? Can I take care of my health? Can I improve all of that? Can I be a good CEO and feel good, you know, like, not be freaked out and stressed out? And I think all the things that you're doing that we're doing help people. I mean, look at Dana White you know, he talks about, he feels like he's 15, 20 years younger, can do stuff he just couldn't do and was struggling to do. So I mean, I think that's the other underrated aspect of this whole game is you can extend your prime by decades.

Yes.

Right. You could stay in the game. Like, why retire? I got a friend that's coming out with a book called let's Retire Retirement. You know, and I'm such a believer in that. Like, you know, look, look at longevity. What happens when people retire, when they don't have a purpose, they die.

No.

And I think the non exchangeable dopamine, the purpose that you get from pursuing something that excites you, that serves the world, I think it, it really energizes the body, keeps us young. And you know, doing all the health practices that you're advocating that we, we offer is just transformative.

Yeah.

Every life.

I agree too, guys. This is amazing. How does my audience find you? Where can they find out more about you? Where can they find out more about optimizers?

Go to baptimizers. Try our magnesium, which by the way, we have a 365 day, no questions asked money back guarantee. Yeah.

Wow.

And our refund rate is 0.25%.

Wow.

Which blows away the industry averages by several orders of magnitude. But try our magnesium breakthrough. Try masszymes. Try sleep breakthrough. I think those three are incredible. A lot of people love our mushroom product, Mushroom breakthrough. I use it every morning. I've been transformative.

What do you put it in?

I put it in coffee. I love it with coffee. Some people like it cold, but the cordyceps gives you a nice energy boost. You kind of get another brain boost from the lion's mane. The reishi kind of keeps you grounded. And we have chaga in there as well.

Wow.

And you can put it in with caffeine. You're getting essentially 1.2 pounds, the equivalent of 1.2 pounds of mushrooms in a serving. Because most of the mushroom blends, they don't have enough of the dose to get the effect that research might element. So we use, we use like 100, 150 to 1 ratios to get those four delivered. And it's, it's, it's one of those.

Yeah, because I think I have that in my cabinet. I haven't tried it. So the, the devil's in the mushroom.

That was in the dose.

Devil's in the dose.

Right.

You know, but you can mix it with, with coffee.

Yeah, Water, whatever you. I, I like. You can make it. You can make it like warm water. If you just like a straight hot chocolate or you mix it with coffee, protein. Drink another one.

Okay.

It's already extracted.

Okay.

Yeah. You do. In a protein drink.

Yeah, because I'm great. I'm actually trying to limit my, you know, my coffee now. I don't know coffee has much of an effect on me anymore. It's more of a habit, you know, But. But maybe I'll replace it with the. With the mushroom in the morning, and I'll take a little bit of. I'll take a little bit of raw, like goat milk. Yeah, put in there, too. It's just delicious.

Yeah, it's delicious.

All right.

Super excited. Our next big product's gonna be electrolytes. Electrolyte breakthrough coming out this fall. We've been working on it for a while. It's. It's the next level.

So tell me you're gonna have more than just magnesium, sodium and potassium.

I think it's 74 minerals.

Okay, good. See, this is what I've been told.

And optimized with the right ratios of sodium to potassium. Everybody's sleeping on potassium. Potassium is the molecule of hydration.

Yeah.

Potassium is a molecule of hydration. But trace minerals.

Yes.

Are the molecules of efficacy.

We've been.

We've been down that for 25 years. We've been on that. That one for a long, long time. Because they're like. I call them like the radio stations on the dial of life.

Yeah.

Here's 101 at this metal. Here's 1, 100. This is country. This is rock. This is R B. This is rap music. You know, this is symphony. And those are. That's the frequency element. And if you don't have all those minerals, you don't have the full band. You don't have. You don't have the full dials on the stereo.

Yeah. Because, you know, I find that especially in marketing, you know, a lot of products want to use the. Excuse me. The one that. That the consumer is going to recognize walking on the shelf. So. Sodium, magnesium, potassium. They're like, okay, as long as I have those, I've got a really good electrolyte supplement. But, you know, the. The truth is that, you know, we need all. All of those. The boring ones, you know, Correct. Boron, manganese, libdum, silica, you know.

Yeah, they're all cofactors.

Iron. They're all cofactors. Back to that big, big chart that I was saying. That's a lot of times we are co factor deficient so I'm super happy to hear that. What else you got coming?

I mean we have, we've been working that.

I don't have that, you guys.

We just got some hicks too. Amazing. We'll see what the final name is right now. Just call it Collagen Breakthrough. But back to what you were saying earlier around, you know, you can consume collagen and there's some good data coming out on that. But with this product, we added every single cofactor involved in collagen and elastin production and we just did a trial with two men and two women and one of the women, it looked like she had under eye surgery. It's mind blowing. So that product's coming out probably late this year, early next year. And yeah, we have a deep pipeline of products. This guy that's on the couch here, Mr. New, he's an idea machine. He's built a next gen E Watt which we can talk about off camera.

Really? Yeah. I want to hear about that when we're off camera.

Yeah, like there's so many exciting things coming and we're actually building. Probably one of the coolest things we're building like actively right. Right now is the ultimate sound chair. Have you ever tried a sound chair?

I have, I've tried a VEMI acoustic chair. So like infrared, near infrared and sound.

Okay, so we're, we're looking.

I've tried the that too.

Yeah. So we're looking to just create again the next dimension, next level of it, and then use it in metamorphosis. So now when you're getting that your, the feedback from your brain, we want it to be like a full body sonic orgasm. And you know, that's the goal.

Wow. And is it just sound or is it other?

Well, it'll be probably just sound. At least a V1. I'm, I'm considering also adding a hood. So now we can, you know, basically hijack the visual system along sound. So we'll see. But yeah, we want to use it in conjunction with the neurofeedback.

Gotta test it, find out.

This is awesome, guys. Well, so I, I have a special group I call my VIP group. This is the group that I just pour myself into. So. And I always let them know who's coming on the podcast because before they get here and then they get to submit some questions. So we're going to go into this private room now with my VIPs and, and they've got some questions for you guys because they knew that you were coming on for the rest of you guys, if you're interested in becoming a VIP, just go over to theultimatehuman.com VIP you can sign up to be one of my Ultimate Human VIPs. It's $97 a month. Give you your money back if you don't get tremendous value out of that. This is where we do live Q&As, private podcasts. I have a 10 month course in there that I was charging $1700 for that I just gave to my VIPs for free, plus all kinds of discounts. And I will convince these guys to give me early access to some of these great products that they're working on so I can let you guys try them first. So if you're interested in becoming a VIP, just head over to theultimatehuman.com VIP and otherwise, that's just science.