Neurodivergent Entrepreneurship: Building a Business Without Burnout with Alyece Smith

Welcome to the Overgivers Anonymous podcast. My name is Angela Mondor, also known as the Geeky Girl. In this podcast, we're going to be talking about some amazing things to help you get over overgiving. Hi and welcome to the Overgivers Anonymous podcast. My name is Angela Mondor, also known as the Geeky Girl, and today I have a really cool guest with me. Elise Smith is a TEDx speaker, ADHD business coach, and media personality helping neurodivergent entrepreneurs build sustainable, profitable businesses without burnout. Her work is rooted in both professional expertise and lived experience. As a neurodivergent entrepreneur and autism mom, Elise understands what it feels like to carry big responsibilities while navigating a brain that does not respond to normal systems. She doesn't teach hustle. She teaches real-life execution, the kind that works in the middle of brain fog, sensory overload, deadlines, parenting, and the pressure to keep it all together. Through her company, Socially Awesome TM, and her advocacy work with Cadence Corner, Elise helps people stop surviving and start building lives, businesses, and communities that actually support neurodivergent brains. Thank you so much for being on the show with us today.

Yes, I am so excited to be here. I've dove into a couple episodes and I'm just, I'm consumed. And I'm excited to share and have a conversation today about, you know, what we can do to help the audience. So—

That's awesome. And I think that, you know, we've been hearing this hustle culture so much. It's everywhere. And it's one of the most harmful things that I have come across, especially for a lot of people, but also for us neurodivergent brains.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Agreed. Agreed. It just leads to You know, this extreme burnout. And we already struggle with our energy, and it's very much tied to our emotions. And so that feeling of not doing enough and not being enough that comes from that hustle culture just takes us down an emotional path, which gives us less energy. And it's a spiral that we can just be on forever, you know. So, I mean— Agreed.

We talk about a lot of the different kinds of symptoms or things that come up for us with, regardless of what neurodivergent spectrum you happen to be on. One of the things that I think that gets impacted quite a bit with that hustle culture— I can't even say it because I don't like it so much— that hustle culture is this concept of our rejection sensitivity. So we think we already, like you said, we already put a lot of pressure on ourselves. We already think, I'm not doing enough. But then we see, oh, I should have— I should be up at 5 AM and I should be doing these things. And like, people don't see the back end of what's happening, right?

Yes, agreed, agreed. And, you know, obviously with neurodivergency, there's, like you said, this extreme fear of rejection. We already have, you know, executive dysfunction depending on— everyone's different. That's, that's the hardest thing about this is when we have these conversations, there is no end-all be-all. There is no black and white. Everyone has different symptoms. But overall, we all have that fear of rejection. And it just takes us down this path. And like you said, when we're not feeling like we're doing enough, and there's this extreme guilt about not being enough, and oversharing or saying too much, or these social situations on top of performance situations, like at a job and a career, it just, you know, Compile that with being a mom or having a family on top of, you know, disappointing your kids and disappointing your spouse or your parents, and it just compounds over the years. And I know a lot of my clients were late diagnosed. They didn't— a lot of women don't find out until later. And, you know, at that point in time, they're already trying to be everything for everyone else, and they already don't feel enough for themselves. So it's just this This, this deep feeling of guilt a lot of times.

Yeah, the guilt monsters. They're fun, aren't they?

Yeah, they are. And, you know, one thing I've said a lot over the last, I think, year, and it's something I tell others, but I also have to constantly remind myself, is I feel like sometimes we're just waiting on a permission slip, you know, we're waiting on someone to give us permission, like, it's okay. We doubt our own judgment sometimes because of that ruminating and those conversations we're having with ourselves. And it— I almost want to take sticky notes with like little permission slips and put them all over my house of like, you can do this, you can do that, you know. And that— yeah.

I think it's interesting that you, that you mentioned it that way of like permission slips. I, I don't know if you know, but I know that the audience knows I was in a car accident last May. and still working through the healing process of that. I remember in the very beginning of that healing process, my physiotherapy, literally she wrote me a note on her legal pad, like her pad with her name on it and whatever, and she's like, here's your prescription, you need to ask for more help, you need to not do all the work, you need to ask people, other people have to be making supper and other people have to, like it was literally like— Permission to say, hey, I need help. And I posted up in the kitchen and the kids were like, oh, how long is this gonna last for?

I know, right? I asked mine to go check the mail and it's like, you know, like, like, like that. Right?

You've asked them to cut their arm off.

Yeah. Yeah, that's— and we are struggling with that in our household right now, to be fully transparent, because I have a 10-year-old an 8-year-old, and I have one in college. And so now it is the 10 and the 8, they just team up and they're like, we're not doing it.

Oh man.

And so I'm like, well, we're not doing anything fun around here, you know. And we are a full family of neurodivergents. So, uh, my— obviously my middle child is on the spectrum, which is why awesome is spelled the way it's spelled. I don't— uh, some people often think I'm Australian until I show up you know, with my Mississippi accent, uh, because of the way it's spelled. It's not a name play on being an Aussie. It is a name play on being an Aussie as a mom because it is the reason I started business. But, you know, my daughter and my oldest are ADHD, and my husband's also ADHD, uh, very different types.

Right.

So, you know, we all have our own, um, symptoms and, and personalities, of course, but I am very much like the person that ruminates and feels that guilt about not doing enough. Like, there is no rest periods for me until I'm just crashing.

Right.

And I'm like, okay, my body can't do anymore because, you know, even if I'm watching Netflix, I'm doing something else. I'm folding laundry or cleaning something. My husband's very much, you know, I need to get ready to get ready to get ready to get ready. And, you know, gotta rest for a certain amount of time before I do something. So it's never a dull moment to see how we all operate together in addition to all of the other, you know, just challenges of living in 2026.

100% true on that one, for sure, yes. Well, and the other piece to it I think is, you know, you bring up this, the concept of the differences, right, between who you are. I mean, I also have to say, like, I don't have a whole lot of light to shine for you, but I've got a 26 and a 31-year-old, here we are. But, you know, like—

Hey, that is a light!

It is.

That is a light, you made it!

Except for we're still dealing with stuff. I mean, it is what it is, right?

Yeah, it is what it is.

But, you know what, I think that, like, understanding who you are is one of the pinnacle things that you can do as a human being, is to really know who you are and to honor that. Like, pre-accident, I was pretty good at understanding what my week looked like, and I'd be like, oh, this is a particular heavy week, so therefore I need to make sure that I recharge in some way. What does that look like for me? What does— because for some people, a recharge might be going to the mall. Oh my God, that's a drain for me, right? But some people might be like, oh, I need to go touch grass, I need to go climb a mountain, or I need to— like, what it is that—

Right, right.

What is it that recharges you? And understanding that for yourself, but then pairing it with the ability to go, oh, I can foresee That this is going to be a bad week. So now I need to prepare. Do I need to prepare before, or do I need to prepare after?

Yeah, exactly, exactly. And our brains are exceptional at pattern recognition. They are exceptional at that. That's one of the things we excel at. And it's funny that you mentioned, you know, the, the working your week and, and, and how you structure that and being able to look at the antecedent and, you know, all of those things as well, because That's obviously a big piece of my Flow First Thinking framework. The W is work your week around your peaks. And so, you know, you have to be able to understand your patterns and not, not like productivity. This is so far past, you know, the old school productivity guru mess.

Yes.

This is about energy patterns. And we all tend to have these certain energy patterns, certain things. energize us, certain things drain us. Like you said, going to the mall drains you. I have no desire to shop in person. Yes.

Ever.

The fact that they can bring it to my house, I can try it on, and if it doesn't fit, I can return it with a quick QR code. And I don't even want to go to the— I don't even drop it at the post office. That's a husband job, you know. So the return, he handles. So knowing those, you know, knowing what drains you, knowing what energizes you, you can work your schedule around that. And, and what I have found is when you feel more in control of your calendar and your schedule, um, and what you're doing, you do become more productive. And you also have that fulfilling feeling more. And that's one thing I see a lot with neurodivergence, and especially entrepreneurs, is they don't feel fulfilled. They don't feel enough, you know. And we never feel like we're getting to that goal fast enough, or And that leads to spirals of ghosting your business and coming back and ghosting your business and coming back. And when you can consistently feel confident in your calendar and your schedule and your week, that keeps the momentum high.

Totally. And I think that, you know, like when we were talking about working together on this episode and, you know, actually having this conversation, one of the things you talked about was, you know, ADHD isn't broken, it's untapped. And what people don't understand is, I think, what unregulated neurodivergent people don't understand, I think, is, right, um, is that you can actually use your neurodivergent to your benefit, but it is about tapping into it.

Yeah, yeah, you have to understand it. Again, it's about recognizing your patterns. So for me particularly, I need dopamine and a deadline, and that's it. And I'm gonna, I'm gonna show up with whatever you asked for like gold most of the time, you know, unless, you know, a hurricane comes or something crazy happens that throws me for a loop. But with dopamine and a deadline, I can almost always get anything done. And that is why I, I don't want to say procrastinate, but that is why, you know, um, if I've got something that's happening at 1 o'clock today, I don't get dressed for it at 8 o'clock in the morning because then I'm just gonna have this waiting period of like sitting around and wondering what, you know, what's 1 o'clock. So I, I tend to wait till like an hour before and then like, okay, now it's time or whatnot. But you have to understand those patterns that you have and how you work and how you operate. And when you do, you're a whole lot more productive. And for me, yeah, it's all about Give me a deadline, I need to know when. If not, it's nonexistent, and I'm not going to do it, I'm not gonna work on it. And it also keeps us from that all or nothing. So we tend to do all or nothing, right? We get this idea, we're like, okay, I wanna execute on this, and we go down a rabbit hole of starting the execution until we completely burn out, and then it either never gets launched or it distracted us from something important. When you can Measure that energy, you can really tap into that hyper-focused potential and complete a project faster and better than a lot of other people.

Yeah, well, and for me, it's clarity and interest, right?

Yeah.

So I could be interested in something, but if I don't know where to start, I'm screwed. Or if I'm clear on what has to be done, but I don't really like it, it's really hard for me to get started, right?

Yeah.

But you get me with clarity and interest, oh, back away.

Yes, exactly, exactly. And that's— I love that you said that too, because clarity is— I've said this so many times, but it's one of my favorite things to give my clients is clarity. Because when they feel clear on what they're working on, what they're doing, what their goals are, you know, how to get there, they can accomplish anything. But often, if we're not super clear, we're, we're doing that ruminating, we're second-guessing ourselves, we're going down this You know, rejection sensitivity and all the things. And when they feel clear, they're like, "I got this." And then 24 hours later, it's like magic happened. And so clarity is is so important because if not, we get in our own head.

Sometimes some of my clients will come to me and they're like, "Oh, I'm a terrible procrastinator and I can't get started." And da da da da. And what it ends up being is that they they want to do the thing. They know what it is they want to get done. They just don't know what the first step is. And so if they don't know what the little steps are, they can't get. going on it because they're just like, where do I begin? And that stalls them out.

Right, right. I agree. I agree. And, and that takes momentum from what I've seen, you know, and momentum is— we are not, from my experience, neurodivergence, you know, it's, it's not a, a, a willpower problem, right? Or a discipline problem. It is a It's not even a motivation problem often. It is just that momentum, getting the momentum started. Once they get up and they, they get started, then we're good. And it is times, you know, I'm not, I'm not one to say I like to white-knuckle something or hustle something.

Right.

But sometimes we have to kind of force ourselves to take the first step and finding creative ways to do that. You know, for me, one of those ways is, and this is gonna sound like the silliest thing in the world, but I get up, I do have to force myself to get up and get kids in the car line, 'cause the car line is like the worst thing in the world right now. But they're only little for a little while, right?

Yes.

So I get up, I bring my kids to school, and then when I come back in the house, I put my phone next to my coffee pot. And the reason for that is because a lot of times I get them to school, I get back, but my brain's still not awake. My brain is still not where I want it to be optimally to work. So if I don't put my phone in the kitchen and I take it with me into my bedroom or wherever I go, I often— I would climb back in the bed and, and just sit there for until 11 o'clock when I feel like my brain's finally on.

Yes.

But if my phone's in the kitchen, I have to get up to get it to— I can't just sit there and doom scroll, right? I can't just sit there in my bed and doom scroll. So I have to leave my— I mean, I do. And I forced myself to make that a habit. I have forced myself to make small habits like that. You know, when I turn my— when I press the button to turn my Keurig on, my Keurig is a dinosaur. It is the very first appliance I bought for this house in 2011. So it's like the OG.

Yeah.

And it still works, so I won't replace it. But it takes probably 5 minutes to get warm enough to make coffee. And so I know I got, once I press that button, I got 5 minutes before I can actually make coffee. So I use that 5 minutes to move clothes from, you know, the dryer to the, or from the washer to the dryer, the dryer to the folding area, you know, do anything I can do in those 5 minutes. And that's part of my brain thinking, what do I do with downtime? I'm not very good with downtime. But also it's become a habit for me So that I don't forget to move laundry for 5 days, so I don't forget to do these things. And so small little actions like that, it's about— it's not always about what we're doing, it's also where we're doing it. And so our brain recognizes patterns of places as well.

100%. And the context switching can be difficult, right? You talk about, you know, you got to get the kids on the car line, but then you get home and you're not quite ready. I mean, the changeover— people say, oh, I'm a I'm a great multitasker. You're not. There's not a person on the planet who's good at multitasking, but us specifically, no. It takes time to get your brain from doing this task to this task, and you don't realize in between, but I think that's where a lot of that doom scrolling happens, right?

It is, it is, and that's where we lose a lot of that momentum, is that in-between time. You know, I, like I said earlier, when I, if I have a midday call or something happened in the afternoon, you know, it used to wreck my entire day. It's like, well, I can't do anything because I have an appointment at 3 o'clock, and so I'm going to forget that appointment if I get started on something. It was like, you know, that context switching of knowing something's coming.

Yes.

And so, you know, part of me— part of what I have done to help me with some of that too is trying to batch things together so I can eliminate the context switching. So if I have a list of 5 people I need to make You know, I need to make phone calls, which I would rather do anything else than call a doctor's office or something like that. You know, like sitting on hold forever. I'm like, I hate it. I'm like, it is— it is 2026. Do you not have a chatbot yet? Like, come on.

Can I text you? Like, book it online?

Right, right. And so like, I'll use my mom as an example. My mom will— she'll call and say, have you called this person yet? And I'm like, nope, it's on my list. And she's like, it'll only take 2 minutes to do it now. No, because if I do it now, it will ruin the rest of my day. I batch all 5 phone calls together so I only have to be miserable for a short amount of time. And I also do phone calls best in the car. So I have CarPlay, so it's safe, you know.

Yeah, yeah.

But I will— I know my kids have an appointment on Monday at 4:30. I've got a 30-minute drive there. That's the best place for me to make phone calls. So unless it's urgent and has to be done right now, I will batch all of that together. I will batch together certain tasks for my business, certain things with my kids, errands. My kids are on Tuesday like, we're out of milk. And I'm like, I run to the grocery or I get groceries delivered on Friday. You can go without milk for 3 days.

Yeah.

It's fine. Because Lord knows they drink a gallon a day. Whatever, but like I have to batch those things together. If not, I get distracted and then it's total chaos all day.

Yeah, and I hear you about that whole appointment later in the day. I know that that used to trip me up a lot. I moved all of my client appointments, all that kind of stuff to the beginning of the day. I just don't even take client calls at the end of the day because I don't want to have that weird time. My problem is that I'm worried I'm going to get into that hyperfocus mode and I can get out of it, but I might be a little cranky about it though, you know? Like, you get into that, it just— you just don't want people to disturb you when you're in it.

Exactly. Yes, that is the worst. Okay, so I can't talk about— I could talk about that for days because it's like nothing more irritable when I am like in the zone and somebody walks in my office. Even the door opening irritates me. I'm like, why are you in here? There is nothing in here for you. Like, get, you know, but, and I try to, I try to, again, just like you schedule my, my weeks around that. So I personally have moved calls. So either it's, you know, recording my own podcast, guesting on podcasts, client calls, whatever, Tuesday, Thursdays, so that I know, okay, I've got to be— I got, I got somewhere to be.

Right.

And, you know, Mondays I try to focus on admin. That just makes me feel more prepared for the week. So anything I need to do admin, catching up on, you know, trying to get my emails down to zero, any of that kind of stuff, which AI has helped with so much of that stuff, like Cowork and all of that can skim my emails now. It's amazing. But Wednesdays are my hyperfocus day. And so I particularly know Which I do a little bit of hyperfocus every day, but Wednesdays I know I don't have— I usually don't have anything scheduled. No calls, no clients, none of that. And I can work on whatever I want to work on. So like right now I am finishing finally the audiobook for my book. And why this is taking so long, reading my own words out loud, it's been like torture. It's like hearing your own voice. Right. And so I, you know, but I know it's got to be done. Or if I'm building, you know, a website or something of that sort, that, that's not stuff you want to do in 1-hour periods. I need to feel like I've completed something in order to keep going with the project. I need to feel accomplished.

Yes.

And so I let my whole day on Wednesday be that. And then my business is closed on Fridays so that I can, you know, go to the dentist and get my hair died and, you know, whatever I need to do without feeling like, oh, now my business is failing because I, I actually took a personal break. And so I batch all my errands on Friday, you know, post office, bank, whatever I got to do.

So I think, and, you know, ages and stages come into play too, right? I mean, you've got— you do have an older child, but you also have younger, right? Um, you talked about your mom. I mean, there's different pieces of whether we are caregiving for youngers because we have younger children, or maybe we're caregiving for olders because they're elderly, or maybe there's some other situation in the house that you're caregiving for somebody else.

Yeah.

Those things also matter when it comes to your energy levels, but also the rhythm that you create inside your business. And I think that a lot of business owners— and I can speak to like the neurodivergent business owners because those are the people I work with most— But this concept of, I have to be on all the time, coming back to that hustle shit, right? But like, because they think, I have to give my entire calendar open to my clients, I have to give full access, and what I have learned, and what I share, is your clients are actually happier when you give them parameters, when you give them blocks. Yeah.

Yes, yes. And I, I've said this— oh, I've said this to my mom actually, and I'm late 30s, you know, but I'm very close to my mom. She helps me a ton with the kids and, and, you know, getting— sometimes I got to be in 2 places because I got 2 littles at the same time. It's, it's almost impossible, you know. My husband, obviously he helps too, but for years he worked offshore. He would be gone 3 weeks, home 3 weeks, gone 3 weeks. So Post-2020, he's now working here. But with that, you know, I've had to tell them before, like, my free time is not, not free time. Like, and that is, you know, very often when I first started this business, it was like, oh, well, Aunt Lily works from home now. So, you know, she's, she's always available. And it's like, that is not— no.

That's not how that works.

And so setting those boundaries Setting those boundaries with clients, of course, but also with family is, is hard, but it's necessary. And so, you know, I have tried and communication is 9 times out of 10 always the problem. So I have communicated to my family Tuesday, Thursdays I'm on calls unless it is an emergency, like someone's going to the hospital kind of thing. If I don't answer the phone, I will call you back after 5 o'clock.

Right.

You know, that's how it is. Fridays are free days. Feel free to call me and we'll talk about what so-and-so put on Facebook and whose baby's having whose baby at a different time. Like right now, that ain't it, you know? And so I've had to communicate with that, with them. I've also, I have a standing coffee date every Friday because that's my free day with my mom and my grandma. So all 3 generations can sit down, have a little time together. Because I did find when I first started my business that, you know, I wanted to work a lot because I loved what I was doing.

Yes.

I still do. But I wasn't making time for them in the way I should have been either. And so having to put that on my calendar, and that's something I commit to, and sometimes I have to drag myself there. But, you know, once I'm there, I'm like, okay, this is why I do this.

Yes.

You know, this is my mom. This is 3 generations in one room and I need to be grateful for this, but it's not always easy communicating to them how I work and why I operate the way I operate.

Right, yes, and communication is super important. I mean, I'm grateful I have an office with a door in my home. Yeah, I am. And even still, I have a placard out front, like, you know, got a nice little thing that has a, you know, a clip on it so I can put a little note on it. And, you know, the kids know that if it says that I'm on a call, that means don't knock on the door, you know. Yeah, so that I can communicate with the outside world, outside my office door, as to what's happening in here.

Yeah.

But, we do work with other people who don't have those wonderful, you know, experiences in terms of having a whole space. And so, you know, they have to find other ways. Even if it's just putting a sticky note on the back of your laptop and just saying, I'm working right now, or, you know, a sticky note on your back that says, Mom's working.

Yeah, well, and you know, it's funny you say that. My husband has said multiple times that he's gonna get me— I might order one today as a joke for myself for Mother's Day on Amazon— an order sign, you know, that I can like—

Oh yes!

And that way they could see it shining. So I might do that today. But you know, during the summer when my kids are— like right now during the day they're at school, so, um, it's— I try to make all of my calls or anything that I need that quiet time for during that time period. I'm pretty good at that. Occasionally I might have to have one after 2:30 or whatnot. Now my kids on Wednesdays get out at 1:30. Our school district gets out a whole hour earlier. I'm like, please just send them home, send them home as soon as I drop them off.

Yeah, yeah.

Whatever, you know. But, um, that's it. But I, uh, you know, for me during the summer when they're out, especially Caden, he struggles obviously with his autism to understand those boundaries and and sometimes why they're important. He, he understands what I'm telling him, but his impulse takes over and he's like, oh, I need Mom, and he barges in. And even if the door— if the door is locked to my office, he will still sit there and knock on the glass until I answer it. And I'm like, oh my gosh. So during the summer, you'll see me recording my podcast in my car. Like, I will go pull my car out in the driveway, you know, and that way I can't be found for a minute.

Yes.

My husband's really good at running, running point on that sometimes and saying, hey, let's, let's, you know, stay away from mom when he's here. But some days he has to go in the office and is what it is. But, you know, you have to make it work. Very often in my business in the very beginning, I did a lot of my like content or short-form video content in the car because Caden was in ABA speech and OT therapy. And this was before he started school. We were running. I lived in the car. I was always in the car traveling to his therapies. So while he's in therapy, I'm out making content in the car, just trying to keep the business going. And so it's not always easy, but you do have to find what works for you and what works for your energy.

Yeah, and because we are mindful, typically, of the people around us, our family and their needs and everybody else's needs, it's really important to also say, but what do I need?

Exactly.

Right? Um, to be able to say, hey, I, I need to go in the car and go hide. I mean, that's a fantastic thing. You know, you have the ability to do it.

Yeah.

Go for it, right? Um, I've also been— I have dogs and sometimes they bark, sometimes they're annoying, sometimes they're scratching at me, whatever. And my clients know, like, if I have to go, hang on a second, the dogs are going crazy, I don't know why, I gotta go check it, I'll be right back, like My clients just know, and in my opinion, I mean, I'm not gonna work with people who aren't okay with that, right? Same thing if you— if your son pops in in the middle of a client call and he needs you and he just needs to be cuddled or whatever, I hope your clients are just like, it's all good, girl, let's keep going.

Yeah, yep, yep, exactly, exactly. And I think that choosing your clients is just as important as You know, as in, I think it's more important than anything. Not everybody. Yeah, that's true. That is true. I've got— I've had and got— I've had some before where I've had to fire a client, and that is the worst feeling in the world. Once I did it, I never felt more free. But, you know, even though it was in writing and there was a contract they signed and they could not respect the boundaries and I talked about it forever and my husband finally was like, just do it. But I had this fear of rejection. Like, what if, what if I make this decision? What if I step up and do this and hold them to my contract? And then obviously we lost the money now and now I'm going to— what if no one else is going to find me? What if they go write a bad Google review? Like, I went down this whole spiral and it went nowhere.

Yeah.

It went nowhere. They were like, cool, bye, you know? But I mean, they might have been acting the way they were acting just to get me to fire them so they didn't have to fire me. I don't know. But it got to a point where I was so fearful of doing that and setting that boundary, and that is a very hard thing for neurodivergents.

It is.

Is to set that boundary.

But also, on the flip side of that, you go through that and then you have a choice. You can choose to learn from it, right? Or you can choose to wallow in it, basically. But the learning process, if you can learn— because like, I mean, like you mentioned before, our pattern recognition is amazing. You look at how that person behaved during your time working with them, how did they behave before you hired them, and then it allows you to be able to maybe recognize that pattern before you hire the next one like them, right?

Yes, yes, yes. Noticing those patterns, so important. And looking at the process too of, you know, the, the almost the interviewing process, the pre-screening process. What, what can you ask them? What can you, what can you, like you said, learn overall and, and find out from the very beginning and being very specific and The more I noticed certain patterns of boundary problems I had in my business in the beginning, the better I got at getting more clear and getting more clarity around how I operate. And so in the very beginning stages of a new client, telling them, this is being very clear about me. This is how I operate. This is what I will do. This is what I won't do. Does that work for you?

Exactly. Yes.

You know, and letting them know and letting them understand that way. I don't feel like I was disappointing them if it doesn't work out, but it's a learning curve for sure in the business.

It is, and you know, learning what works best for you I think is really important in terms of how can I mitigate these things, right? So it's really important for me that I'm not available to my clients 24 hours a day, 7 days a week, 365, like that's just not, I don't wanna be on all the time, and I don't think that's, I'm not gonna be the best for you if I'm on all the time anyway. I'm not gonna give you the best of me.

Yeah, exactly.

So, like, as simple as having an email that says, to my clients, not to everybody on the planet, but to my clients specifically, when they email, they get an email that says, hey, got your email, here's our working hours, and here's the timeframe we're gonna get back to you in. Like, just to be really clear, every time you email me.

Yep, yep, yep. And I, I, I did the same thing, like, a year and a half into my business. It was very simple, very easy. And, you know, I have— I also, when I set those boundaries and got really clear on that, I got better at not apologizing.

Yes.

You know, I used to come back in an email on Monday and say, I'm so sorry, you know, my kid had a doctor's appointment on Friday, even though I'm closed on Friday, I'm going to apologize for it. You know, like I would, I would just the people pleasing.

Yes.

And I got— and the same thing with Facebook and Instagram DMs and all the DMs, right? You know, I used to apologize and, you know, like, sorry, I wasn't in Facebook on Saturday and Sunday. Like, I've gotten 1,000 times better at just being like, answer, going straight to it, answering the question, you know? And have I lost clients because I wasn't on social media Saturday and Sunday? Yes, I have, you know? But guess what? They weren't a client I wanted.

Exactly.

Because if they know anything about me and my business, it is I do this entire business for my kids. And so, making them a priority is a priority. It's the only priority that matters, you know? And so, yeah, I mean, being okay with not everybody being your client, and that takes overcoming that people-pleasing aspect.

And understanding that there is an abundance, there really is. There's an abundance of clients for all of us. We each have our own specific things. You and I do similar things, but I bet you our clients are a little different. Right? The who you talk to versus who I talk to, there's going to be some nuanced differences between it. We're not competing for what's going on.

Yeah, right, right, right, right. And that's, again, just understanding and getting really clear. I think coming back to clarity overall is so important because, you know, being clear on who you are, you stop worrying about who everyone else is and what everyone else is doing, you know. And I, I've had clients come to me, and not even that long ago, and be like, did you see what so-and-so posted about this? Or did you see the new update on Instagram? Or I'm like, nope, I ain't seen it. I don't like— I ain't worried about it. Ain't even on my radar, you know. I got 100 other— I got my own ideas. I don't need her ideas, you know.

Yes.

And so that is— it takes time to get to that level of confidence and conviction in what you're doing and not having to worry about the newest shiny thing. And does it make me, you know, out of the know sometimes? Sure, sure. There are times I log into a social media and I'm like, oh, that's new, okay, I didn't know it could do that, you know. But yeah, I'm not worried about that. I'm worried about me, and I'm very clear on what I want to do and where I'm going and what's gonna get me there. And a new Instagram update is not—

And you know, the whole concept of Coming back even to your Kirk, right? Ain't broke, don't fix it. If your business is working, just because there's some new shiny object thing doesn't mean to say you have to implement it just because somebody else is.

Yes, yes. I'm a very gut-led person, and so, you know, I like— of course, if my gut's telling me to do something or shift, yes. But I have a 48-hour rule. So anytime there's some kind of, you know, even down to a software, like, oh, I want to buy this because I, I'll tell you what, I am a software junkie. I like to try the newest softwares out there. I want to see what they got, what they do. I don't know why. It's like buying shoes for me. And I, you know, if I want to invest in a new software or something, I sit on it for 48 hours and, and then decide, you know, come back. Is it still interesting? Is it still— does it still feel like I want to try this or need this or invest in this? Because I got to a point where I owned more Subscriptions.

And that is a dangerous thing.

And I didn't need it. But yeah, my— I mean, my CPA is the one that's like, okay, do you, do you know how many softwares you have right now? I'm like, yep, yep, not— nope, not at all.

And like, AppSumo is a nightmare because there's so many shiny objects over there.

Oh my gosh, yes. I I probably have an AppSumo membership I need to cancel. Okay, write that down. I know, right? I'm gonna write that down. Like the Elite or whatever, you get an extra 20% off and you get to— they will— now I will say that membership has been helpful because if you don't like it within 30 days, they refund you, which has been nice because I have bought some that were a disaster and I'm like, this does not even close to what it says it's gonna do. But I need to probably cancel that, 'cause I haven't even been on AppSumo in—

I know I have a credit over there, and you know, the mind shift that I've gone through has been good in terms of software, 'cause it's, you know, even you and I were talking about recording software before we got started here. Like, I look at the software and go, okay, I'm looking for a solution that does this, right? And then you start looking for that, and you're like, oh, this thing can do these things, and then you're like, well, wait a second, don't I have a software that does some of those things? And you're like, I do, and guess what?

It does the thing I want it to do.

Oh, look at that.

Yeah, exactly, exactly. And you know, I've also— it's funny because I've, I've, I've sat on like some of these softwares forever. Some of, some of them, if I got them early on AppSumo, they were a lifetime membership kind of thing or whatever. And if you just wait long enough, they will update to do all the things that you want.

Yeah, we got Taja that way. We got a lifetime with Taja. Happy with the software, and it's done some really great updates. You know, but sometimes she can find a jam.

I have Tasha as well, and I don't think I've ever used it. I'm good. That's good to know because I have Tasha as well. The YouTube SEO, I haven't used it in probably a year. Let me check it out.

It does a really good job of making shorts now. It was kind of okay before, but now it does a really good job of shorts.

Yeah, I couldn't get the green to go away. I'm like, I know it's not me. Yeah, the green.

So it's better now. It's not perfect, but it's better now.

Okay. Yeah. Good to know.

Isn't that funny?

I have a Trello of all of my softwares and logins and subscriptions because I, I'm a visual, you know, I got to have the visual and I'm like, oh my God, I own more softwares than I know what to do with. And yeah, so some of them have come in handy though, now that I don't use them or I don't really need them anymore. Um, I have gifted them to my nonprofit.

Oh, good.

Like, maybe y'all can use this in some way, you know, uh, because, you know, we're— nonprofits are on a big budget. And not to say I'm not, but I, you know, I don't use TidyCal anymore because I have, you know, an all-in-one that has a calendar. I don't use some of these certain ones where I was piecemealing in the beginning. So I've gifted them.

That's awesome. That's fantastic. Well, I think— thank you so much for being here. We've had such a great— I could talk to you for hours.

I know, I know, I know. And I am geeky when it comes to just all things learning about our brain and learning about other people's experiences, because I think that it's— there's nothing, you know, more fulfilling to me and just making me feel whole when I hear someone else had a similar experience or the same experience, that I'm not alone or not the only one struggling. Because it's very easy to go down that dark hole of like, why me? Why just me? Why am I the only one that's like this? Why am I the only one that's chaotic? Why can't I get it together? You know, like that rumination. And, um, yeah, I just love having these conversations because it's, it's fulfilling to hear, you know, other stories and see ourselves in other stories. Yes.

Well, thank you so much for being here. I really appreciate it. Of course, we're gonna have more about you in the show notes so people can click through and connect with you online and whatnot. So yes, thank you so much. Appreciate you. Okay, have a great day, and we'll talk to you guys next week. Thank you so much for listening to the Overgivers Anonymous podcast. Your support means the world to me. You can find show notes for this episode and other goodies at overgiversanonymous.ca. And if you enjoyed this episode, Or you enjoy the podcast in general, why not join us in the Overgivers Anonymous Facebook group where you can connect with overgivers from all over the world? Head on over to geekygirl.ca/group.