The Power of Persistence: How to Keep Going When the Going Gets Tough

True persistence is sustainable only when it's fueled by clarity, balanced by rest, and adaptable to change. It's not about how hard you or we push, but it's about knowing when to move forward or when to pivot or when to pause or when to recharge. If you stay connected, connected to your why celebrate your small wins and honor your individual human rhythm. Persistence becomes a powerful tool for growth, not just a grind, a hustle to endure. That's what keeps you moving forward no matter how tough the road gets.

Welcome back to Beyond. You'd default. I'm your host, Liz Moorhead, and as always, I am joined by one of my favorite humans on this planet. It George P. Thomas. Hey, buddy. Look at you dancing this morning. Look at you dancing your way up to the mic. What do you got going on over there?

You know, it's. It's a good life. It's a good day to have a good day, as some of my friends like to say, and then laugh after that because they realize it's kind of a dumb saying. But it is a good day to have a good day. How are you doing, Liz?

You know, I'm doing really well, I gotta be honest. Over this past week, you know, you and I have been cooking up some fun stuff behind the scenes that I think our audience is really going to like. But there is something that happens when you start working on things and your soul perks up and goes, this is what you're supposed to be doing. And it's just. And I think that's. And I wanted to bring that up today because, you know, over the past few episodes, we've been talking about the four cornerstones of the superhuman framework. Right. We've been talking about purpose, passion. Today we're talking about persistence. And then the final one is love. And it's all about that emotional, spiritual, holistic engine.

Yeah.

That moves us forward. And so what's been neat about it is just. I mean, I found myself working super late some nights just because I can't put something down.

Yeah.

You know, I've been. You know, it's been. And just that feeling of this is capital T, the capital W. Work. This is the work.

Yeah.

And that has felt incredible. How about you? How are you today?

So I'm doing good. It's funny because I, too, am having this mental dichotomy. Is that the right word that I'm looking for? Where.

You know what today it can be. It's early in the morning. Why not?

I don't know. And let's Just use it. But where I know that I have work to do. Like, I have clients that I love. I have employees, you know, and family members that I love, and I've got to do work around with and for them. But there's this thing that I'm like, oh, man, I really want to be working on this. Like, I want to be doing this because. And it's funny because it aligns with what we've been talking about. It. Like, it. It so aligns to my purpose on the planet. It's something that I am super passionate about, which. Which is fun and funny all at the same time, because I didn't realize I was going to be as passionate about it until we actually birthed it. And it. And it. And it started to grow from an infant to, like a child and now maybe even like a teenager, where I'm like, oh, man. Like, I'm super passionate about this. I'm. It's. It feels like it's like my next purpose in life, but I still gotta. I still gotta pay the bills. Like, now if I was a millionaire, I'd be like, let's drop everything and just work on this thing. Yeah, but that's not where we're at. And. And. And again, and I don't mean drop everything as in, like, not do it, but I figure a different way to make sure we are taking care of the humans that I love. And, you know, because. Because I'm a good human.

We love our humans.

But. But I'm. I'm in the same place with you around this kind of superhuman framework. What's coming next? And so that has been like, last night, right? Worked all day helping humans, sat on the couch, was watching TV with the fam. But I was also. I had my laptop on my lap because I was working on stuff that I just. I couldn't let it go. I wanted to be able to, like, get to the next level with it. And sometimes you've got to spend the extra time to get you to a place that you want to be in the future. And I'll never forget last night, Liz. I was literally, by the way, not why we're here, but I was sitting on the couch with my laptop, and I called back to a story that I had heard and admired and loved and saw the fruition of. And. And my. My brain traveled back to when Marcus Sheridan would tell the story of him coming home at night and writing blog articles and creating content and. And learning what inbound marketing was. And. And he had no idea what that Change would make to his life or who he would become through the things that he was doing in the evenings with that extra stuff. And I was like, oh, this is. I. I feel. This is my. I'm. I'm giving myself a future gift. I'm giving myself a future gift. I don't know what that gift looks like yet. This time it's not time that I'm just wasting. It's not time that I'm just like staying busy. It's purposeful, based on a passion. And this is me in action being persistent to get to the future present.

You know, George, your story, you know, we didn't. I love these types of conversations because as much as we do plan these episodes out in detail, we don't know the stories that we're going to show up with personally. And what I'm hearing is a recurring theme of persistence. Right. And that, as I've mentioned, is what we're talking about today. It's one of the cornerstones of the superhuman framework. It's one of the most important ones. Right. Because, you know, passion wakes you up. Right. It's the spark that lights the fire. It's the thing that makes your whole body go. Yes. And your purpose is. Yeah. It's what gives you that direction, it's what gives you that guidance, it's that compassion that brings clarity and focus to your passion. But persistence is how you keep moving forward.

Yeah.

When it's easy, when it's hard, when it's somewhere in between. But what I find interesting about persistence, George, is that I think personally it's pretty misunderstood. You know, when I hear persistence. Right. It reminds me of a conversation we've had a number of times on this podcast when we talked about the idea of Healthy Hustle, one of the 10H's of the superhuman framework. People think persistence, people think the negative side, the never stop mentality, the toxicity around that. But instead, what it really is is this idea to deliberately move forward. You make the conscious choice to keep moving forward with purpose, with passion, with intention, regardless as to whether the motivation is there or not.

Yeah.

So that is what we are talking about today, right?

Yeah.

So I'm really excited for this episode because I want to say something like, if you've ever felt like you've run out of steam or wondered if sticking with something is worth it, and when I say you, I mean me. I think we've all been there. I think no matter how growth motivated and how hungry you are, there are going to be moments where you're just like, what the flip am I doing? Yeah, I want to talk about that today.

I would even add in there, Liz, like, if you've ever said that you're hard headed or stubborn, it's. Those are negative connotations. But like, I don't know if I fully realized until the deep dives of what we've been doing over the last year. Plus with beyond your default and now, you know, several months with the superhuman framework. I've always said, oh, I'm just bullheaded or stubborn or hard headed. You know what? Actually I'm just a persistent badass. Like, like it's a, it's a superpower that we can have as humans of this idea of being persistent. So anyway, just rethink about how maybe you think about yourself when it comes to the topic that we're going to cover today.

You know, and I'm going to throw out there for our listeners. We did one of our first episodes way, way back in the day when so much was so different in our lives. We had an episode dedicated to the language you use and how you talk about things and the words that you apply to things. I would recommend that as a companion episode to what we are going to talk about today, because so much of it is about language, in fact. Yeah, George, let's just dig right into this conversation. I know a lot of people talk about persistence, but what is it really? There are a lot of really crappy definitions flying out there. So I'd love to know how you define it and the role it should play in our lives.

Yeah.

And you know, Liz, it's funny because most people, when they talk about persistence and you even kind of leaned into this, they think of it as this kind of like grinding endlessly, like just pushing through no matter what. Like walking through the muck and mire because I have to, because there's no other option. But honestly, that's not how I see it. And, and it's definitely not how the superhuman framework defines persistence. To me, persistence isn't about like this need to exhaust yourself to the point of burnout. Because there are a lot of humans in a lot of places, personally and professionally that like, they're just burnt out. There's no other way to put it. For me, it's about resilience. And I know that we're probably going to have an episode in the future that we just talk about that word because it keeps coming back up. Resilience. Resilience. Resilience.

In two episodes, my guy, get excited.

There you go. I am I'm always excited. But today when we're talking about like resilience, it's, it's also about adaptability. It's about making the kind of deliberate choices that we need to make to keep moving forward. Even when things feel hard are hard, when they feel uncertain, they, they are uncertain or I, I've been there. I'm sure you have too, Liz. Listeners, they, they just look downright impossible. Persistence is this cornerstone that holds everything else together. When life throws you the curveballs that it's going to throw you, it, you've got passion again to light the fire, purpose to guide the way, and love to sustain you. And by the way, I can't wait to talk about love, which will lead into resilience. But persistence, that's the quiet, steady force that keeps you walking towards the goal or goals that you have. Even when the fire flickers, when, when the, when the path isn't clear, when, when it just feels like it's all hard to find. Right? And so here's the thing. Persistence is often misunderstood because it doesn't look flashy. It's not always loud or obvious, which again, what is why I think it can disguise itself as like hard headed or stubborn or like it listen, it's showing up for yourself when no one else is watching. It's the 100th rejection letter and still deciding to send out that 101st. It's not about being stubborn or relentless. It's about being smart and intentional, ladies and gentlemen, about knowing what truly matters and staying committed to those things that truly matter to you as you move forward. LIZ the, the role of persistence plays in all of our lives is, is huge. And the fact that we don't understand it, pay attention to it or, or lean into it, the amount that we should. Listen listeners, think about it. Nothing meaningful ever happens without it. It being persistence. Whether it's growing a business, nurturing a relationship, developing yourself as a, as a human. Persistence is what bridges the gap between starting something and actually seeing it through. Now listen, I have been that guy many times in my younger life where I would start something and just, it would, nope, just like, but that's because I was building or training or failing or learning my way to being able to be persistent and see the things through. It's, it's when we do see them through that, that's when the magic moments of life start to happen. Persistence, we all have to understand, is the backbone of this personal growth journey that we're on. Because it's the thing that keeps you Going long after that, that spark that we all get called initial excitement. And guess what? Initial excitement, man, it wears off. It's like it's the honeymoon phase. Oh my God. Yeah, it 30 seconds and like, what choice did I make? Why am I doing this?

Thanks. I hate it here.

Exactly right. But, but when it's grounded in purpose, when your persistence is grounded in purpose, you're clear about your why. Well, now all of a sudden, it can feel empowering. You're not just pushing forward blindly, which some of us do. We get on that like, hamster wheel of life and we're just like, we can't see that we're staying in the same place, doing the same thing over and over. It's in, it's insanity. But see, with persistence and it being attached to purpose, you're. You're making a conscious choice to keep going because you know what's on the other side of the thing and the worth that it is or the worth that it will bring. So if Liz, I know, a little long winded on that, but if I had to define it simply, I'd probably say it like this. Persistence is the willingness to keep showing up imperfectly, patiently and consistently. Now I'm gonna, I'm gonna say that again for the listeners. Persistence is you as a human, your willingness to keep showing up for yourself and others imperfectly, patiently and consistently. Because what you're working on, what you're doing, who you're doing it with or for matters. And listen, listeners, when we live with that kind of persistence rooted in our values, well, then we unlock a version of ourselves. And I'll be completely honest, I'm talking to myself, I'm preaching to myself right now. We unlock a version of ourselves that we didn't even know existed.

You know, it reminds me of a conversation I had with somebody last year. Last year, around this time when your girl Liz was going through some stuff. Just, you know, I had just, just, you know, got fresh out of a divorce, had, was I'd thrown everything into a storage unit and just got a short term rental, airbnb in New Haven, Connecticut. Cause I just did not know how to functionally make decisions. And a friend of mine asked, how are you still working and how are you keeping it together? I said, well, first of all, bold. If you just assume any of this, keeping it together, like, first of all.

Number one, I got you fooled. Yeah.

You know, but then I told her, I have a rule in life that I call the bomb rule, the explosion rule, which I think really aligns Nicely with your definition of persistence, which is when I. When things get dark or when things get challenging, I ask myself one question. Are you physically going to explode? No. Well, then you're going to get up tomorrow, and you're just gonna keep going in whatever shape you're in. You have to keep moving forward. That's all you can do. And it really helped me be persistent throughout the last year. And I'm still not perfect. I'm still figuring things out, but it is. It is a weird little rule where it's like, well, I'm not gonna explode, so what choice do I have?

Yeah.

To stand still.

I. I love that so much. I love that so much. Because we all have to have these triggers or hooks to our brain and yours. The bomb thing, for me, it's. It's. And again, I've said it on the podcast many times, but it's the 1% better each and every day. Like, it is a narrative that when. When ish gets rough, I whisper inside of my own cranium, all right, bro, 1% better each and every day. Like, let's keep. Just take another step, dude. Just. Just take another step. And by the way, Liz, none of us will ever be perfect. I know, right? And the listeners, I want you to hear this like, perfection is not reality. Progress is 1% better each and every day. You're not going to physically explode. Just keep taking that step.

I love that. I know we've already started dipping our toes into this pool, but for my next question, I want to hear from you. What do you see as the biggest misconceptions about persistence? The ones that you would say are probably the most costly to us if we lean into it, or the most insidious and destructive?

Yeah.

Ooh, insidious.

Ooh, that.

I know. Isn't that a great word?

That's like a super villain, words that sidious. Like, here's the thing where my brain goes. It goes in a couple places. Of course. You know, that's kind of how my brain works. But. But let's talk about when it's time to pivot, because I think that's a big word and something that we need to think about, and we don't naturally think about pivoting when we think about persistence. Like, when you think about persistence, it's like, head down, straight line, make it through. Like. But here's the thing. Persistence is. It's really about resilience. God, I'm so excited for that episode. In two weeks, two episodes from now, it's about resilience and smart choices. And it's about why small, steady steps matter more than big flashy leaps. And so many times in our life, we're all trying to get that big flashy leap and like, and it actually stunts the amount that we could go if we just took those steady steps that matter. Okay? So one of the biggest misconceptions about persistence is that it's all about brute force. Just keep going, push harder, grind it out. And honestly, I think that that mindset has done more harm than good to a lot of humans who are like, they think about persistence in that way. Persistence isn't about blindly muscling through every obstacle that you have in life, nor is it about sacrificing your well being on the altar of your goals. And I'm going to tell you right now, there are humans out there listening this, that you, you are sacrificing yourself on the altar of your goals. And, and that's not persistence, ladies and gentlemen. That's burnout dressed up as ambition. And I need you to just check yourself like, are you, are you ambitious? Or you just burn out because you're trying to muscle your way through? Okay, so another misunderstanding is the idea that persistence means never quitting. Well, you're a quitter. Which is like, if somebody called me a quitter, I'd be like, no, but actually there's times where I just need to quit. Right? But, but like, quitting no matter what kind of aligns with sacrificing yourself on the altar of your goals. But, but here's the truth. Sometimes real persistence is about knowing when to pivot. And, and Liz, you know this, listeners, if you've been listening for a while, you, you know this as well. I love a good pivot. I genuine, I genuinely believe that one of the most powerful skills that we can cultivate is becoming what A buddy of mine called me years and years and years ago. He said, dude, you're a transition specialist. When, when you're persistent, right? You, you understand that it's like, yes, it's 1% better each and every day. It's one little step at a time. But ladies and gentlemen, it could be a step to the left, it could be a step to the right, it could be a step back so that you can turn in the right direction. You got to figure out how to be a transition specialist. It's recognizing when to step back, reassess, or redirect your energy towards something that aligns better with your purpose and your values. See, because sometimes we get stuck in this Rut of life, where we're doing things for the people around us. Went to school to be a doctor because my dad was a doctor. I do this because my boss asks me to do this thing. Does it align with my purpose or my values? Nope. But I keep on doing it. You see, persistence, again, it's not about stubbornly sticking to the same path out of sheer determination. It's resilience paired with discernment.

I love that word. We are SAT wording today.

I'm just saying.

Discernment.

Discernment, ladies and gentlemen, if you don't have some discernment in your life, that is. That is one action step you could take after. See, it's. It's about being it again, being persistent. It's about being adaptable and smart enough to recognize when continuing to push forward makes sense. And frankly, when it's just time to shift strategies or focus in on something else or even focus in a different area of what you're doing. One last myth about persistence that I want to cover here. Persistence isn't some grand heroic act that happens overnight. Poof. Like, that dude is persistent in a cape. And no, people often think it's about these massive leaps forward, but the reality is that, again, small, consistent steps. I can't say this enough. In this episode, the 1%. Well, 1%'s not a lot. It's more than zero. One small. When you wake up in the morning, do you just levitate? And you're at the bathroom? No one's like, it's just a natural order of life. One step at a time, consistently so. Walter Elliot said this perseverance is not a long race. It is many short races, one after the other. You know, that's the fun part about that, when I think about that, is if it's a bunch of short races, one after the other, you know what persistence gives you in that light? Time to rest till it's time for the next race. You see, true persistence is showing up for yourself day after day, even when progress feels invisible. And that's the funny part, too, is like, have you ever gone to the gym or you've done something for like a hundred days, but you. You don't feel the difference. You don't see the difference. And then you see somebody that you haven't seen for a long time, they're like, wow, you look good. Sometimes that 1% progress, that individual steps, that short couple races that you did to be persistent, it feels invisible to you. But you have to trust yourself. You have to trust the process you have to trust the fact that every small effort. Here's another word for you, ladies and gentlemen, discernment. Every small effort compounds over time into something meaningful. I've told stories about how I've done like thousands of HubSpot tutorials. Not one of them tutorials was extra special or amazing, but the fact that we consistently did them for over eight years and like it compounded compound interest because that's literally building a brand and starting a business. And then where we are today with beyond your default superhuman framework and clients. For everyone listening, here's something that I want you to think about. And when I say think about it, it's, it's questions that I want you to ask yourself around this. How can you reframe persistence in your life so it's less about relentless effort and more about intentional meaningful progress? And are there places where letting go or pivoting could actually move you closer to those goals that you're seeking now? Liz, I'm super curious. What's your take on this? Like how, how do you see persistence being misunderstood in like the realms and world that you kind of live in?

You covered a couple of the big ones for me that I want to double click on. First, this idea of persistence, meaning you have to stick with something no matter what, and you are a failure if you make the choice to drop something. And I'm going to be perfectly honest, that one really kind of leapt out of the screen, if you will, as soon as those words came out of your face. Because not only did I agree with it, it's something that I've actually been not necessarily wrestling with, but over the past few weeks I've really been auditing because I'm starting to get a lot more fussy about where my energy is going. And I'm starting to feel a lot more friction of why is my energy here when I know it should be here. And sometimes the most dedicated way you can express persistence in your life is to know what things not to persist with. So you may persist with the right things, the right people. And I, you know, I, I've spent the past year auditing my life doing it. But I, but the past couple of weeks, you know, I'm starting to notice a greater disparity between I doing this, why am I putting my attention here? And it's, it's because there's that push and pull and if you don't get really clear about what it is you really should be persistent about, you will be half assing everything instead of whole assing the things you should be whole assing, you know what I mean? So that is something that leapt off the screen to me. The other thing I would say too is that to persist at something and then to fail at that something is not a failure. I think that's one of the greatest misconceptions about persistence, is that to persist at something and to fail at something is to not fail. And it reminds me of a client I had a long time ago at my last agency and he had, you know, founded multiple businesses. He was a Silicon Valley guy, just absolutely brilliant. I loved listening to him talk. And one of the things he said to me once is that he got ahead in life because of the way he perceived his relationship with failure and that he never saw failures as failures. He saw them as instructions on what to do next. And that is where I think about, you know, when I was going through some of my darkest moments over the past year. And I will even say over the past month, as I'm like, I'm still trying to refine, focus, show up where I need to show up, do the thing, okay, I made a mistake. Get back up. We keep going. I keep thinking about that idea of I could look back over the past year and say, man, look at all these failures. But they've brought me closer to the focus of where I'm supposed to be. You have to be honest with yourself about why things might get messed up. You have to be honest with yourself about why some things maybe didn't go the way you planned them to, but it's still an overarching act of persistence and a commitment to yourself.

So good question. So good.

So question for you. Persistence, though, is going to look different for different people.

Right?

Like my flavor of persistence is not your flavor of persistence. So I'd be curious, how do we define it for ourselves? How do we find that sweet spot for us as individuals?

Yeah, which, which by the way, one of the things that I love as far as like host, co host, host. I don't know who's the host, who's the co host here, but one of the things I love about what you bring to the table is the ability to bring powerful questions. I want the listeners to know that this is a powerful question because of the answer it enables and the thing that you should be putting in your brain because it does not look the same for everybody, nor so this. So it's like I, I can't download a template, I can't steal your blueprint. Like, this is something you have to focus on. Yourself. Listen, persistence isn't a one size fits all kind of thing. It's it. It needs to be. It should be deeply personal. It's going to be shaped by your goals. It's going to be shaped by your values. But more importantly, pay attention to this, because I have had to. The season of life you're in, like, my persistence for GBT 10 years ago, 20 years ago, looks completely different than my persistence right now. But again, I've changed, my goals have changed, my values over time have changed or been refined. Right. And so, so the way persistence shows up in your life might look very different from how it shows up in someone else's life. And it could be your kids, your wife, your co workers, like. But know that that's not a flaw. That's design. That's exactly how it should.

That's both a feature and a bug.

Yeah, yeah, exactly, exactly. So to get to the deeper part of your. Your question, like, to start, like, persistence is all about aligning with your why. Right? And. And if you don't know your why, and I would even say your because. Like, every time I talk about why now, I think about my buddy Mick Hunt, who does the Mick Unplugged podcast, and he talks to humans about their because. Yeah, it's. It's amazing. Like the. The why. But do you know your why? Like, when you're clear on your purpose, what truly matters to you as a human, it becomes easier to decide where you should channel your energy and. And when to keep going on, channeling that energy in the direction of your purpose or your why. For. For some, persistence might mean showing up every day to write a paragraph of a long dream book that they want to write. For others, it might mean committing to a challenging conversation. Those are fun. Or sticking to a new habit that you're trying to build. It's not about comparing your persistence to anyone else. It's about defining what makes sense for you individually as a human for those goals, for your values, for the season that you're in. Listeners, I need. I need to get your notepads out for a second. And I'm dead serious. Get your notepads out. Get a pen. Okay, Because I want you to write this down because this framework that I want to talk about, it's a simple framework. It's not like the whole superhuman framework. It's like a micro framework inside the framework, if you will. It can help Liz.

It can help you.

Yeah.

And yes, yes. Here's the thing. Even me approach persistence with purpose and clarity at making sure that your my efforts are intentional and sustainable. And so I want you to write down persist. Okay? Persist. And it obviously means something. Persist. The P is for purpose. I want you to always remember to start with your why. Because the purpose is the foundation of meaningful persistence, which is going to give you a clear direction and the motivation to keep moving forward. And I want you, for this P for purpose, to ask yourself, what's the bigger picture I'm working towards? How does this goal align with my values? And you'll write these down. Now, the E is for evaluate. And what I want you to do is regularly check in with yourself. You see, because persistence isn't about blindly pushing forward. It's about learning, adjusting. I called it pivoting earlier in this episode and. And making smarter choices as you go. And for this E for evaluate, I want you to ask yourself, what's working well right now and what's not serving me anymore? Now for the R. This is the rhythm we all have to find our rhythm. Like, honor the pace of your life. This just translates right into the season and what you're doing. Like, listen, some days call for big leaps and others are about small, steady steps. You have to recognize that both are valuable and part of the journey that you're on. And you're trying to be consistent and persistent for this one. For the rhythm, I want you to ask yourself, am I honoring my natural pace or am I forcing progress at an unsustainable speed? Okay, the S is for small wins. I want you listeners to celebrate every step forward, no matter how small. Taking time to acknowledge these wins builds momentum and reminds you that progress is happening. Remember I talked about that invisible progress? It's your job to remind yourself progress is happening even if it feels slow. Even it feels slow. Ask yourself during this one for small wins. What's one small victory I can celebrate today that brings me closer to my goal or goals? Now, the I is for intuition. If I could just get more humans to trust their instincts, to listen to their gut, to hear the small voice inside their brain. Persistence is about knowing when to push harder and when it's time to pivot towards a better path. So for intuition, I want you to ask yourself, am I continuing because it feels right, or am I pushing through out of a habit or out of fear? Now, the S is for support, and life is funner when we actually have people around us. So surround yourself with people who understand and encourage your journey. Leaning on others for accountability or motivation can make all the difference in the world of you being Able to stay persistent to get to those goals that you're trying to achieve. And so for support, I want you to ask yourself, who in my life can I lean on for encouragement or support right now? If you don't have an immediate name that comes to mind, please, that is a most important next action step to figure out that gap to fill with the right human as you move forward on this journey. Till is for tenacity. Oh, I love that word so much. Stay committed to your goal while remaining flexible in your approach. I must say that for the people in the cheap seats in the back, stay it again. Stay committed to your goal while remaining flexible in your approach. Listen, true persistence is about balancing your dedication to with adaptability in how you achieve your vision that you're headed to. In this one, I want you to ask yourself, how can I stay committed to my goal while remaining open to new methods or new paths? I think if you just think about persist in these letters, in these questions that you ask yourself, if you use this simple framework, you can start to shape persistence in a way that's not just effective, but also sustainable. And like we talked about earlier, it's deeply personal. And this brings up another key point. Persistence doesn't mean pushing full throttle every single day. It's about recognizing the rhythm that I mentioned earlier of your life. Listen, it's okay to not take a step because you know that you're going to take another step another day. It's okay to sprint because maybe you know you're almost at the finish line of the marathon that you've been running. Both are valid as long as you're moving toward what truly matters. So, so to everyone listening, I I hope that I can encourage you to reflect on two major questions that go align or align with this persist simple framework that we've been talking about. One, what's the bigger picture that I'm working towards? That should be at the top of your notes. What is the bigger picture that I'm working towards? And right below that, what's one small manageable step I can take today to keep moving in that direction and then under that's persist. I hope that helps. Listens, by the way, I'd love to hear your take. You can email us, you can hit us up on social what does persistence look like for you? But also, Liz, I'm curious, what are your thoughts around this?

So I'm actually going to do a little demonstration, George, because you know, it's funny, you and I spend so much time together, but you and I have not basically been in a room together for a little over, what, two years?

Yeah.

So you've only seen me from, like, the chest up for about two years. Yeah, I'm about 80 pounds lighter now.

Yay. There we go. There we go. Now, listeners, you. You'd have to just The. The YouTubes or the whatever, but.

Yes.

See, that's what I'm talking about.

The reason why I bring that up is because persistence is going to be a different flavor. Not just individual to individual, but also goal to goal. I didn't start losing weight or actually getting healthy until my flavor of persistence was, I am not going to chase weight loss. Weight loss is not the goal. I'm not going to step on a scale. I'm not going to do anything like that whatsoever. My flavor of persistence was, okay, I have a goal now. I'm not going to think about it. I'm just going to show up and commit myself to new systems and habits. So persistence became, I don't care what you do. You just have to be inside the walls of that gym for 30 minutes. You could sit there and stare at a freaking wall for 30 minutes, but you have to be inside the gym for 30 minutes. And then it evolved. The goals changed. The goal shifted. I spent a lot of time. I know, I know. People always talk about, metaphorically speaking, you got to be careful about staring at your feet. Well, sometimes when you have big things that you need to do, the only thing you should be doing is looking at the steps that are right in front of you and not obsessively looking at what's on top of the mountain.

Preach.

Because. Because that's when we get into situations where we become so obsessed with a goal that we do not realize the most important thing we can do is change our habits and our systems and become the person we want to be, the person who we already are. I would say the other thing, too, about persistence, in terms of how we define it for ourselves is it reminds me a lot of the conversation we had about purpose. We expect it to be this big lightning bolt from the sky. Purpose is this. It's like this great crystal ball that breaks open, like in order of the phoenix and Harry Potter, and it gives the great prophecy. Right, like that. But that's very specific kind of stuff. Do you know what persistence really is? Sometimes just making a to do list every single morning and then just doing the to do list. Persistence is just waking up and, and, and, and doing the thing.

Yeah.

And. And not always questioning everything. Constantly, all the time. Persistence is wildly unsexy and unglamorous.

I like the to do list. My brain wants to say right below that, write the to don't list so that you can red flag yourself of like, oops, I'm doing one of the to don'ts. Let me get back to the to do's.

Anyway, I love that. So when we think about persistence, there is always. There are extremes to everything, right? Persistence is great, and there are thresholds of when it can become unhealthy or counterproductive. So how do you know when it happens? How do you know when you get there?

Yeah, I'm gonna keep this one simple into the point. To be honest with you. Persistence becomes unhealthy or counterproductive when it stops serving your purpose and starts draining your well being. I could end there. I'm not going to. But it's that, like, that's the lens that I want you to look at when it stops serving your purpose and starts draining your well being. If. If you're pushing forward out of habit, out of fear, or God forbid, out of pride, rather than intentional effort towards a meaningful goal, it's. It's a sign to step back and reassess why, what, how, when. Pivot. Yes. Maybe. I don't know. Another big flag is when your efforts are causing harm again. Whether it's burnout, whether it's neglecting important relationships in your life, or even if it goes to the depths of compromising your values. Now you know, persistence is no longer doing what it's designed to do for you. The key is to stay connected again to your why. The key is to be honest with yourself. The key is to be honest with yourself about what's working and what's not. And I've already said this in this episode, but it deserves to be repeated. Liz, Sometimes the bravest form of persistence is knowing when to pivot or pause. Pivot or pause. Because if you can be brave and you can understand those times, it's how you're going to actually protect what truly matters. Melez, I'm. I'm super curious on your thoughts of kind of recognizing when persistence might be doing more, let's say, harm than good.

You know those moments where you look in the mirror and you know, like, I gave my all today or I didn't give my all, or I didn't do this or I did like you kind of. It's that. It's that come to Jesus moment. Whenever you lock eyes with yourself in the mirror, you kind of know where you're at. Honestly?

Yeah.

Just take a look at yourself in the mirror, you know, listening to this, I guarantee you there are people right now wondering out loud, is this the wrong kind of persistence? And you're asking a question you already know the answer to.

You already know, but you don't want to answer.

But. But you don't want to answer it, because that's the thing. How do you know when persistence becomes unhealthy or counterproductive? My guess is we already know. The real question you need to be asking yourself is why are you denying the truth? What is the cost you feel like is not that you're not willing to pay? And then you have to counteract that and understand the cost that you are not willing to pay is much less expensive than the one you are already paying by continuing down whatever path it is that you have. So when I think about when persistence becomes health, unhealthy, and counterproductive, it's when we start lying to ourselves.

Yeah.

Or we refuse to have the tough conversations or make the important choices that we need to make.

Yeah.

Which, like, by the way, I had.

To do that this week. I had to take a step back from a couple of things, and I said, hey, you know, I got it. I need. I know where my focus needs to be. I know my focus isn't there the way I need it to be, so I got to take a step back.

Yeah.

Too many yeses. Gotta throw out a few no's.

Got. Gotta do it where. We're so good at lying to ourselves.

We really are.

We're. We're pro. And I don't mean you and I, Liz. I mean listeners. I'm. I'm bringing you. I'm bringing you into this as well. Like, just as. As fundamentally as humans. We are. We are pros at lying to ourselves, and we. We have. Honesty is such a key piece to this conversation we're having, which I'm trying to think if we've actually done an episode on honesty.

We've done two.

Oh, well, there you go. Go listen to those.

We did a whole episode on self deception. We've been doing this for over a year. It's crazy, isn't it?

Crazy? The. The library of in motion, potential growth that you have at your fingertips. Listeners.

Anyway, so, too, let's talk about the role of rest and recovery and persistence. What does that look like?

Yeah.

I mean, it's. It's important. I've said important maybe too many times in this podcast episode, but it can't be overstated. Maybe, Maybe it's Even more than important. Maybe I'll use a different word. It's like, Liz, it's essential. Here's the funny thing. Rest isn't the opposite of persistence. I don't know why we think that is sometimes, but rest is the fuel that makes it sustainable. Without it, we risk burnout, we lose perspective, we drain the very energy that we need to keep going, to. To be persistent in the pursuit of our purpose that we're passionate about. Like, I don't want anybody to look at recovery as. It's like stepping away from the goal. It's. It's not. It's. It's about stepping toward it with renewed clarity, with renewed focus, with renewed strength, because we've actually taken time to rest and recover. I. I want you to honestly think about it like running a marathon. Liz, you just did this a couple weeks ago, I believe. Ran. You did a marathon, right?

I ran a. I did a 10K. And I literally, I. And I had friends who asked me, oh, have you done a race before of any kind? So 10k is six and a half miles.

Yeah.

And I had. I've never done a race of any kind before in my life.

Yeah.

Ever. And last year, I just went, you know, I'm putting my money where my mouth is. And so I bought registration. And I just knew, no matter what, I was going to go across the four and a half mile Bay Bridge in Maryland.

Yeah.

And I was going to do it. And I did it. And what was really funny is I expected the bridge to be the hardest part because it's, like, straight up for about three miles. Like, it's. And, yeah, my. My calves were killing me and so were my quads. But actually, what got me the hardest part was the last, like, three quarters of a mile.

There's a Less.

That was the. That was the part where I was just like, oh, my God, I'm sitting here like, I've gone over five miles and it's this last one. And I'm like, I gotta do it. What am I gonna do? Stop? I'm just gonna sit down on the asphalt and decline to finish?

Yeah.

And what was crazy to me is that when I got my finishing time, I had set a goal for myself of how long this race was going to take me. And I made it a point not to really look, to see what I had done, because the goal was just to persist, to get over that bridge, to get that six and a half miles done. And my pace was 35 minutes faster.

There we go. See?

Yeah.

Here's here's the thing, and one, just an understanding of the last bridge bit of your race is going to be the most difficult. So being rested and rejuvenated or having the ability to push through that is super important. But also the fact that you were like, I know that the end goal is this. Let me just focus on that, and I can actually beat it. And so, listeners, this is why I'm talking about. Think of it like running a marathon. Like Liz just explained. If Liz was to try to sprint the entire way. If you in life are trying to spread. I love Liz's face, by the way. If you're listening. If you're listening to this, it was. It was priceless. But. But if you try to sprint the entire way, you'll run out of steam long before the finish line. Rest, pace, rhythm allow you to do things like recalibrate, rehydrate, like, along the way. And I'm talking a little bit metaphorically, but also like reality in persistence. Like, these moments of recovery are where the magic happens. They're where. They're where. And when we reflect on how far we've come, we can reassess our strategies and when we can reconnect with our purpose of the whole reason why we're being persistent in the first place. And I think we have to talk about how rest actually builds. Here it comes, ladies and gentlemen, Resilience. Taking these intentional breaks, by the way, disclaimer. I am fundamentally preaching to myself during this next part, but taking intentional breaks allows your mind and body to recover. It makes you stronger for the next push. It's. It's in these moments that inspiration often strikes. Problems find solutions, and motivation is reignited. So you have to ask yourself, what does that look like in practice? It. It might mean taking 10 minutes during a stressful day to clear your head. It might be dedicating an evening to something that brings you great joy. It might mean stepping away completely for a weekend to rest. Oh, God. Anyway, I said I'm preaching to myself on this.

My problem is every time you say you're gonna go take a rest, you start a new company. So it gets a little bit.

Yeah, it gets a little.

If I don't hear from you for too long, my first thought is, look at that. He's finally getting some rest. And then I'm like, wait a minute.

Yeah.

Have I just slack recently?

Yeah, listen, I've. I've done all of those at some point in time in my life. I don't exactly remember when some of them were, but that's why I'm preaching to myself. We have to take time to do those things and, and those are pieces that I'm trying to get better at. But the key is to integrate, figure out how to integrate rest into the rhythm and not, and not as a reward for exhaustion, but as an essential part of your persistence journey. Listeners, I'm curious because I'm also, as I admitted, learning along the way. How do you make space for intentional rest so that you can come back stronger and more focused again? I'd love to get a massive amount of emails or a massive amount of people reaching out on social, but I'm even more.

Can they email you, George?

GeorgeB Thomas.com But I'm actually very curious to if many humans are in the same boat that I am based on their listeners to this podcast and they're on like journeys. But hey, I'd like to hear from you and Liz, I'd love to hear your thoughts on this as well.

You can't keep the lights on for anybody else if you can't keep your own lights on. That's my thought. That's my whole thought.

That's the whole thought. So like, that's it.

Like, that's really it.

Yeah. So speaking of thoughts, Liz, we've, we've come a long journey word. Roughly 50 some minutes, I think probably once this bad boy is edited down. Out of all the things that we've talked about, what's Liz's one thing from this episode?

Persistence is the most important promise you can keep to yourself because you can't keep any promises to other people until you learn how to persist for yourself. I spent decades of my life persisting for other people and them wondering why I felt empty. And it's been a journey over this past year to really feel worthy of persisting for because that was. I didn't like myself, didn't like myself, didn't love myself, had very little self worth. I felt like Liz is a service. I didn't feel like a human being. And that started to come together. And over the past week I've really been focusing on persistence is the most important promise you can keep to yourself. Because once you start keeping those promises to yourself, it's not that life gets easier, but life gets more fulfilling. Because when you persist on behalf of yourself as opposed to the agenda that other people set for you, that's when your passion, your purpose starts coming alive. George, what about you tick us home? What's your one thing that you want people to remember from this episode?

Yeah, my, my one thing for this episode, Liz, is this Persistence isn't about relentless effort. It's about intentional, meaningful progress. Intentional, meaningful progress that aligns with your individual you, the human's purpose. True persistence is sustainable only when it's fueled by clarity, balanced by rest, and adaptable to change. It's not about how hard you or we push, but it's about knowing when to move forward, or when to pivot, or when to pause, or when to recharge. If you stay connected to your why celebrate your small wins and honor your individual human rhythm. Persistence becomes a powerful tool for growth, not just a grind, a hustle to endure. That's what keeps you moving forward, no matter how tough the road gets. On this very important journey to a life beyond your default.