Work in Progress: George + Liz on Vulnerability, Self-Worth, + Surprises

You can be on a football field and you know the boundaries in and out of bounds, the playing field, off limits, walls. If I lock the doors, you can't even get into the stadium. You can't get into the stadium to even play the game. Liz. I wasn't letting people into the stadium to play the game that is life next or with me as a human being. And so I'm trying to remove walls out of the way to be more vul, to invoke or enable these way better relationships and outcomes or at least get the discomfort to be able to grow through it and then on the other side of it have a better relationship. And again, I'm. If I can't do this for my circle, family, friends, how am I gonna even think that I'm gonna be able to do this for the masses, listeners from the stage? So again, not a three step process, but a definite mental visual project that I'm trying to take down a brick of the remaining walls away, like each and every day.

Welcome back to Beyond. You'd default as always. I am your host, Liz Moorhead, and I am joined by the one, the only, the man, the myth, the legend, George B. Thomas. How are you this morning, bud?

Liz, I'm, I'm on fire. I'm ready to answer deep rooted, possibly slightly chaotic, hopefully lovable responses to some questions. Because we're on our check in episode. I don't know if I get excited about these or I fear these, but I'll let you know once we get to the end of this.

Well, okay, so first of all, I'm loving all of the words that we chose. Chaos.

Yes. And love.

I feel like that that's pretty much the theme of these episodes.

Now for those, it might be my life. Honestly.

It honestly might it honestly, you know, these episodes, what we do is once every, what, 15 to 20 episodes, you and I like to check in with each other and see how we're doing in our own beyond your default journey. And we love doing this for our listeners, even though it does require us to get a little bit honest about how well things are or aren't going. We love doing these episodes for our audience because we want to be pulling back the curtain on what these, this journey actually looks like. What does it mean to take steps forward in your own life that may run counter to your default programming? And what are the second and third order effects that can come out of that? But why don't we ease ourselves into this topic? George, what's your highlight and lowlight for the Weekend. What's up?

Yeah, so highlight, I think, was actually, I woke up on Sunday, and I've been watching this Matthew McConaughey green lights, red lights, yellow lights, like, professional growth kind of video thing on Mastermind. And so I woke up Sunday morning, I watched that, and during watching a couple sessions of that, I walked three and a half miles. And then I decided that it was time to do church, so I decided to walk during church. And so I watched church online, and I did another. I don't know, I ended up with, like, five miles between the two things that I walked. And then also went out and did, like, Trader Joe's and grocery shopping. So, like, I think I hit maybe 30,000, 30 plus thousand steps on Sunday. So that was like, all right, like, I felt good about it. I was like, rock and roll. Like, health, health of the H elements. Check. We're rocking and rolling, but also holistic because I was spending time with my daughters and my wife while we're doing grocery shopping. And what was really, maybe the highlight of the highlight was that we had really great conversations while we're driving down the road in the car. And my daughter even referenced, like, we usually don't talk like this. And I'm like, well, I like that we're talking like this. So it was just kind of a. Sunday was the highlight. It was a. It was a good day. As far as low light. I mean, I was struggling this weekend a little bit internally, mentally, and honestly around this show and how much I have been prepping or maybe over prepping. We had a conversation last week, Liz, about kind of like, how do we make the podcast better and how do we add more value to the humans and how do we extract more raw information out of the brain that is, well, me. And so I was struggling with this, like, innate desire to be prepared and this passionate undertow of. But you need to be flexible. And it's funny that I used the word chaos earlier because there was this thing of, like, you have to be willing to swim in the chaos of your mind to enable the elements that people need to hear. And so that was a really weird place to live in of this. Like, how do I do this delicate balancing act of diving deep into my brain and my life and being vulnerable, or having basically a entire show prepped and ready to roll. So, again, people can't see the inside of my brain. But that became a slightly ugly place as I was trying to navigate through it. So what about you? Your highlights and low lights?

So I have a distinct low light for this weekend. And this is not one of those where, oh, I'm making a low light out of nut. No, I legit have a low light, so. So I am house sitting for some very dear friends of mine who are traveling this weekend. And one of my favorite things about it is I've. It's almost like a big reset weekend for me. Right. I cancel any plans that I thought I would have socially. I will not make any new plans with other people. I will basically just devote my time to writing, working on our personal projects and going to the gym and working out and, like, just clean. Eating clean food. They have this big, beautiful kitchen that I get to cook in.

Nice.

And the first night I was here, I accidentally fell asleep on the couch, which is not something I can do over 40, because I woke up the next morning and I could barely move my back.

Oh, yeah.

And I think I mentioned this to you because you and I had a podcast recording on Friday, and you and Max for our Hub Heroes podcast for HubSpot and Inbound marketing. And at the end of our podcast recording, you jokers were still chatting, and I said, I gotta go. I can't sit up straight anymore. And it was about 24 hours of just excruciating pain and icy hot patches.

And that's a low life.

It was a really big struggle for me because I don't think anybody would look at Liz. You should be more positive about that. It was a chance to slow down. Like, my back freaking hurt and it really sucked.

Yeah.

But I had that moment of just. Man, I had to take better care of my body. I can't just lay about on the couch like I used to. I have to be more mindful about my body. I have to take better care of it. But then I started hyper focusing all this weekend. Weekend about, like, every creek I was feeling in my body until a friend of mine was finally like, you do realize you're only 41.

Yeah.

Like, I understand that you are learning new limitations of your body, but you are not indeed an ancient fossil.

Yeah. Yeah. Trust me, you haven't arrived at my status yet.

No.

Yeah.

And then when I. Let's see. I would say my highlight for this weekend is I've gotten my reset time. I've gotten my relaxation time. And I will say, the one benefit of being forced to slow down Thursday and Friday was me really digging into, like, Liz, when was the last time you actually just didn't do something productive? Mm. Because I. And you and I have talked about this on this podcast. Before I criminalize lack of productivity.

Yeah.

I'll criminalize what it is that I'm watching on television. Well, this is just brain rot, Liz. Why can't you just, you know, go do something productive? Is it.

Sometimes you need that, though.

So I allowed myself to brain rot this weekend, and that was my highlight. I brain rotted. I watched an aggressive amount of Emily in Paris, which is an absolute trash show. And I love you don't want to. Your daughters know that. Oh, your daughters know. And this is going to be, like, one of those things where I remember your daughter saying, hey, dad, you should watch Bridgerton with us. The answer is no, George, don't do that. That is a bad idea.

I got through about half an episode. I walked away.

Why on earth would that.

I attempted it, but I was like, no.

Even I. Like, I would want my dad to be in a different continent when I'm watching Bridgerton.

Well, there was nothing funky happening, but I still was like, yeah, this is.

Not my relationship that you have with your children. And I that in a very positive way. But still. So, yeah, I got to do a little brain rotting this weekend.

Good.

I got to do a little brain rotting this weekend. It was nice. And my back is finally feeling a lot better.

That's good. Yeah. Because pain sucks. Like, if you're not. If you don't have to live a life, like, where you're in pain every single day, then God bless you, because when you do have those moments. It's funny, though. I've come to the realization that, for me, Liz, it's my small reminder that I am human, that I do need to pay attention to the vehicle, the one vehicle, my body, that I have for the rest of this, like, journey. And also that, like, when I would, in my younger days, get the Superman complex and feel like I was invincible, I don't get those very much anymore because I'm like, oh, my knee. Oh, my. Yeah, it's just like.

And then you think back to all those times of. Remember when you thought you were invincible, and maybe you should have taken it easy a little bit.

Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah.

It's not time to take it easy on each other. It is time for us to begin our third check. And I can't believe.

Up late, gentlemen.

I know we've been doing this for over a year.

Yeah.

This is only our third check in.

Yeah, I'm just.

I'm very excited about this.

I think that's because we're, like, hesitant.

I love these episodes, personally. I think they're Great. I always get very excited about these episodes.

Well, that's good.

But George, here, how about this? Since you're the one feeling so much chaos and love and definitely not a little bit of anxiety at all.

Yeah.

Would you like to ask a question first Or I can.

I can ask a question first, which I'll let the listeners know when. When I crafted these question, I was doing it in a state of like going straight for the jugular. I want Liz to have to be vulnerable and unpack in like what I feel is four fundamentally important pieces of who we are as a human. And so with that said, look, Liz, looking back over the past year, which again is crazy of doing this beyond your default podcast, I'm super curious. How has your relationship with self worth evolved? Like, where do you see it today compared to when you started? Of like, this is Liz, this is what I'm worth. This is what I'm bringing to the planet. Like, talk us through the journey of self worth for you over the last year.

I say this with deep love, affection and admiration and definitely on the record. It should not be edited out. You're an for this question. Just gonna throw that out there. Let's just, let's just go ahead and start with that. Because when I saw this question, I knew immediately where I had to go, which is I started this journey with you kind of at the bottom of the barrel. I, I had hit rock bottom in my life. And then for some reason, because I'm a tenacious little butthead, had kept digging, had kind of kept going.

Yeah.

You know, I had been through a divorce. I had my entire life in a storage unit in one town in Maryland while living in a short term rental in New Haven, Connecticut. Things in my business were not going to plan. There were very few things that had been going to plan. And what was mind boggling to me was that just a few months prior to when we had started, I had celebrated my 40th birthday. And I thought everything was perfect. We had this big expensive Italian dinner. At the time, I was still married. We had friends in from out of town there to celebrate. I was eating the most decadent meal. Everything on paper was perfect, perfect, perfect. And flash forward what, six months and my whole life was on fire. And I, in many ways, had been the architect of my own misery. And I was incredibly hard on myself about it. I was incredibly hard on myself about it. So at the time when we started this journey, I was not in an okay place. I knew I had value, but I really felt at that Point. My value was in propping others up. I had lost belief in my voice. I knew I had talent to extract out from other people for you, from you, for example, the greatness that I saw within you. It was the reason why, even though I was at the bottom of the barrel, I was like, we should start doing this. We should start doing this now. This is the thing we should be doing.

Yeah.

But it was not because of any belief in my own voice. It wasn't in belief of my own worth. Now, what has been interesting is that as I've gone through this journey that obviously has shifted. You know, time has a way of, you know, things that feel like absolute trash cans in the moment, you have the ability to move through those. You know, time shows you that what you think is the end of your life or the end of the world very rarely, if ever is.

Yeah.

But what has been interesting through this journey is that I remember when we first started having these conversations. Even if I had an opinion, I kept it to myself. These weren't dialogues, these weren't conversations. I didn't have anything to add to the proceed. Yes, listen to the girl whose life is on fire. Let her give you life advice. Let her talk to you about those different things. Right?

Yeah.

And so when I think about where I am today compared to where I started, you know, I'm not. I'm still hobbling along, you know, I. But I see myself as someone who actually has worth. Because part of the reason why I ended up where I did was because I wasn't seeking out. You know, this is something you and I talked about last episode. Right. I wasn't looking to belong. I was looking to fit in. I believed that I had to be someone molded and shaped and made palatable, as opposed to someone who can shine and be as weird as you know, I am, George. I'm a weird girl. I'm very weird. I'm very tall. I'm very loud. Like, this is. I was never born to be someone who could ever fit in. God made me physically and temperamentally. Like, I have been too tall for everything since I was, like, four.

Right.

I've always been a little bit too tall. I've always been a little bit too loud. I've always been a little bit too strange. Like, I have been built to be different my whole life, and now I see worth in that. Whereas I think at the beginning of this journey, like, I didn't see worth in anything.

Yeah, I love your answer because there's a couple things you mentioned. Like, I was to this, I was to that. I was to that. Which, by the way, means it was just right. Like, it was literally the way that God made you. And when we can embrace that it's the way that God made me, then all of a sudden, you know, we can start to build on that little piece and grow it. And it's funny because I asked this question, Liz, because I have seen a dramatic difference just in, like, the newsletters that you write and the way that you show up for the newsletters. Like, there. There was a definite difference. None of them, by the way, listeners, I'm saying, are bad. But there's a definite difference from, like, the first set of newsletters that you're crafting and, like, the emotional and mental smackdowns that you are creating out of your self worth that are happening in the newsletter now. And so you can definitely see that there's been this amazing journey over the last year of, like, who you believe yourself to be and how you now will show up to the world because of that.

You know, it's funny, I remember the day because I remember the issue where everything changed. And I remember you. I remember you, and I had a conversation where you said. I almost didn't say anything. I didn't want to tell you anything because I didn't know what had changed. But whenever you get too quiet when I start experimenting, I'm like, this is either really good, or he's just going to let me walk the plank for a little bit to see if this Campbell plays off, you know, And I was actually here doing a hard reset weekend, and I just said, you know, what would happen if you stopped pretending, if you stopped playing dress up and just started speaking, you know, so it's been genuinely. I hate how much this word is overused, but it genuinely has been quite a journey because I think when you spend so much time either being programmed or, quite frankly, programming yourself, I mean, these are stories that we architect for ourselves. You spend enough time telling yourself that you aren't worthy, that's what you're going to believe. What's interesting is I can't pinpoint a moment where I suddenly started telling myself a different story. I think I just stopped focusing on trying to tell a story at all.

Yeah.

I just focused on living. So. All right, your turn. Yeah, your turn. George, you ready? So I think so, yeah. Yeah. Because in a previous episode, you mentioned the importance of incorporating quote, unquote selfishness in a positive way to prioritize your own needs. How have you been balancing this with the Demands of your daily life and what challenges have you encountered?

Yeah, it's interesting because I still think I call it selfishness, but in a positive way. For instance, you know, there's probably plenty of other things that I could have done Sunday morning, but I was like, no, I need some me time. And I'm going to go ahead and walk on the treadmill and I'm going to do this professional growth and I'm going to do church, and then when I'm done, I'll come out for the rest of the world on Sunday. That means my family. But I needed that time. I will say that I've been trying to do that even during the weeks where I'll get up and I'll be like, you know what, the first 45 minutes, first hour, it's just going to be what I need. And it's going to be walking on the treadmill. It's going to be, you know, listen to something or watching something that adds value to my life. And before I was so hyper focused on, I've got to hop right in email. I've got to help the other humans. I'm here to be of service. And the thing that I'm working through and realizing is if I cannot be of service to myself, I will not be able to be of service to others, at least to the level in which I'm trying to do this. And so I have good days, Liz, and I have bad days, but I'm trying to have more good days than bad days on this idea of, in a positive way, being selfish to fill my cup, selfish to make sure that I'm being healthy, selfish in a way that I'm focusing on the actual framework that I'm bringing to the world. Because how dare I not be selfish enough to be focused on the 10H's and leave time and space for the 10H's of the superhuman framework. If I'm going to be talking to individuals, teams and organizations about how the superhuman framework, like, impacts my life and came from my like. So again, it's, I want to say, a daily challenge, but I don't know, maybe it's more of like a weekly challenge at this point than daily. Because again, I've put, put in patterns and habits. Like when you're just used to doing something. Like if the first thing you do for 7, 14, 21, 30 days is come into your office, step on the treadmill and turn the TV on in a certain direction, that just becomes the norm. And what's interesting when I think about that Is if you're setting up all your norms to be in a positive direction around the things that are important to your life, you might feel like, well, that's just the norm, but you have to look back and go, it didn't used to be, and enjoy the success in what you're getting. So hopefully that answers your question. But I. I feel like I'm being selfish, but I'm not judging myself in a negative way for being selfish to fill my life and myself.

You know, the way I always like to think about it is, do you ever say something wise? And then people go, oh, that's wise. And you're like, was I possessed for a second? Did that.

What?

Just. Because that didn't come from smart me, but apparently it did. But one time I told somebody something that may be helpful here, which is when you pour love in to yourself, it becomes easier to pour love into the world.

Yep.

And I think we have a complicated relationship with the word selfish. Right. Because the immediate connotation is. Is one that is. Is quite distinctly negative.

Yeah.

But these are radical acts of self care, of self love. You know, you pointed this out earlier when we talking. When we were talking about my physical ailments. Right. We have one vessel, one body.

Yeah.

But we also have one brain. We have one heart. And I think sometimes we forget that to prioritize the self in a healthy way is to prioritize what we are capable of doing for others.

Yeah.

Right.

Yeah. And I mean, it's funny because, listen, you can say this, the word self care now, and I don't start twitching.

It's amazing. You've grown so much. It took us, what, 25 episodes, but we got there. I'm just saying, I still. That is still one of the things that makes me the most happy. And not from the place of I was right and you were wrong.

Yeah. Yeah.

It's the.

I mean, I was recognition.

I mean, there's always that, but I wasn't going to go there. No, but it's the recognition that you're worth caring about.

Yeah.

You know, that you deserve the same type of reverence that you give to other people.

Yeah. It's a magical day when you realize you love yourself enough to care about yourself and then do things for yourself. Speaking of which, I think it's my turn to ask a question, isn't it?

Go ahead. Yeah.

Yeah. So I know I've dealt with this, and therefore I wanted to ask you a question around this. Actually, this even comes out of the. It was a conversation at The Thomas family, where my wife asked me about this concept of digging up the skeletons and what it was doing to my brain. So listen, each week we come here and we confront expose to our audience the unearthing of historical skeletons. And so I'm super curious how has digging through your history affected your ability and mindset on self forgiveness?

You know, I love these lightweight questions you throw my way. This is.

Yeah, they're just like feathers. Like feathers.

Well, it has been interesting in that in order to have certain conversations, I had to start sharing pieces of my history.

Yep.

Right. And for the first while there, I really struggled to do that because I had this fear that people would think I was trying to garner sympathy or they would look at me differently. Even though we're not sitting in front of actual people when we're having these conversations.

Yeah.

You know, these are. These were imagined concerns that I had in my head. Unearthing old skeletons didn't actually start as something that began to help me with self forgiveness. It really started me more on a path of self acceptance and owning my own story. You know, we were talking in the previous question about how like I. I was built to be different, you know, and in a way, we all are. You know, conformity is something that we kind of force on ourselves. It's how we are biologically programmed to survive. You know, like we were cavemen who didn't want to get eaten by dinosaurs. And sitting in keeps the tribe together. And those are all the amazing things that make us communities and communal. But where that goes wrong is where we think we have to sound and be like everybody else. And we prioritize that over seeking true belonging.

Yeah.

So what's been interesting though, about this entire process is as I've started to tell my own stories, it has forced me to not tell stories in a way that makes me feel the worst way possible, which is usually how I tell those stories to myself. Remember when you did that terrible thing? Remember when you made that awful mistake? You know, when you tell stories here in these contexts, you have to do so without that type of narrative. Right. Because it's bad for radio. No one wants to sit here and listen to you be sad about any. But it's also not an accurate reflection of what the beats of the story really are. You're editorializing, you're not talking about what actually happened. And so because of that, it did enable me to start seeing things more. With more factual clarity. There have also been times where I have. Because I've had to mention a certain circumstance or something that has happened multiple times. Right. Like, if I have to call back to something, if I have to mention or remention a specific story, it's actually helped me contextualize and recontextualize what actually happened. It's less about forgiveness, although I would say that has been part of it. I would say it's more of enabling an ownership over my own story. It has enabled me to really just say, this is who I am. Like, I'm only equipped to be having the conversations that we're having right now because of every single step I took to get here right now. Have I made lots of mistakes? Yes. Get in line. We all have. Right. In a way, what's fascinating is it's allowed me to embrace my own unique story, but also realize we are hilariously not unique in our ability to screw things up, make mistakes. But that's because we're all capable of growth. It's about what we choose to do with the lessons. Like, you could literally go 10, 20, 30 years screwing everything up to a certain degree.

Right.

Like, we're not talking about murder or things like that, but, you know, it's. You have the capacity one day to wake up and say, this is different now.

Yeah.

And you are allowed to evolve into that newer version of yourself. And I think for a long time I didn't think I was allowed.

Yeah, I. Listen, I screwed up probably the first 25 to 30 years of my life. So I'm. I'm living proof that you can wake up and decide to change and be different. And, Liz, there's a couple things out of that answer that I love. I love that you use the word owner, like the owner's mindset. I love the fact that it's like, tell my story. Well, it's interesting because as you were talking about, like, having to bring certain topics up again and again, my brain went to like, yeah, they're not as scary when you've Talked about them 5 to 7 times versus running from them for 25 years or 10 years or however long it's been. It's like. It's like the. The darkness or mystique or whatever kind of goes away when you've shined a light on it seven different directions. And it's interesting to be part of this. This journey with you. And that's kind of the thing that you're pulling out of that.

So I will think about horror movies, right? They always become less scary the moment you see the monster. Yeah, they always become less. It's like you're they're still like, oh, they've got a knife. And they're.

Unless, like, keep running. Still scared.

But, Chucky, I just. Hard pass. Hard pass. No, thanks. No, that. Who thought that was a good idea? Hard pass. Don't like it. The other thing I will say that has been interesting about this whole storytelling angle as well is that it has made me very much more protective of other people who were involved in the story, because these are my stories from my perspective. But there were other people, other people involved in many of them. And it made me think about, in some cases, do I forgive this person? Do I want to drag this person into things? And what was fascinating is that because you have to tell these stories from a factual perspective, not an emotional perspective.

Yes.

Let me tell you, ladies and gentlemen, you can't tell a story while you're still living the story. You can't. You can't speak to trauma while still feeling and being traumatized. Right. But what was fascinating is that as I told and retold these stories, it helped facilitate ways of me saying, you know, two things can be true. What happened wasn't right, and everybody deserves a chance to walk away from this and try again. So that. That's been a fascinating little journey with that as well. All right, enough about me. So.

Well, until I ask the next question.

Yeah. Well, that's not right now, is it?

No, not right now.

It's me. It's me. We're gonna talk about time. Because one of my favorite episodes that we did in this last batch was our conversation on smashing the reset button on our relationship with time. And I know time is slippery for you, my friend.

Yeah.

And I would be curious if you've implemented any new strategies to manage your time more effectively, because I know you have been to hit a balancing act. Right. The right balance between productivity, but also managing your stress levels, which I know is something you've been focusing on. So talk to me about that.

Yeah, I'm actually happy for this question. I hired an assistant. So what? Listen, I finally pulled the trigger, and one of my daughters has been doing, like, video script help and different things like that. And so I literally had a conversation with her, and she was like, hey, I really want to do more. And I'm like, are you sure? And she's. Again, I was like, this is my need. This is my need, and this is what it means. And here's the. Here's the 12 things that this job would actually be in charge of and what they would do and what they're Supposed to protect me and this, that and the other thing. And so today, by the way, is her first day. She has to show up at a certain time. That's amazing. She has to be in the office. We literally have been working on a new multi inbox system for email. We've created a thing in ClickUp for a kind of streamlined. This is what George needs to do today, tomorrow, by the time this week is over. And again, all of this investment in her, investment in the position, investment in systems and processes is to buy back time in my life. And again, I think it's to buy back time in my life. So in some areas I can be a little bit more selfish with the things that I need to learn, do and be, but also be a little bit more of a blessing because now I'm not as stressed. Now I am able to kind of downshift a little bit and sometimes even be in neutral when it comes to like family things and different things that for the last, I'll say nine months have maybe been a little bit more difficult. I haven't really been excited or wanted to go on a vacation, but I'm like, I probably need to go on a vacation. Which I was adamant by the way, like previous to that. Nine months of like going on a vacation, like every six months or every.

Yeah, you were, you. You're consistently making me feel bad about the fact that I haven't been on a vacation yet in two years. Yeah.

And so I want to get back to that. And so for me it really is coming down to. And by the way, this is just so the listeners know. This is a reprogramming of my brain. Things that I am talking about do not happen by default. I'm more of the give me the crayons, let me go into a corner, let me draw something, let me be creative, let me be a creator. And my mind is totally on systems and processes and templates and repeatable processes and humans and how do I actually, you know, sell what the world can do versus Listen, here's another thing, Liz, and I'm not going to say too much about this, but also in conjunction with getting an assistant, I'm having conversations with enabling a sales arm in the organization which again, what is that doing? It's taking things that are sales related, quotes, invoices, conversations with humans, like beginning ones. Because I always want to be on like discovery calls and like answer any questions that people. But there's literally a second piece that over the last 30 days I'm like, well, if I Implement this and implement this. That gets me this back in my life. And so it's funny because I think time is something that I am actively wrestling. Like, you know, the steer wrestling and the rodeo. Like, I feel like I'm wrestling with time. Like, I'm like, you will submit to my will. And I do not mean in a. That I'm going to live forever. I mean in like just my day in, day out as a human, as a leader, as the owner of, you know, potentially three different lanes of revenue.

Every time you go somewhere, you start, start every time.

I know. So I feel like I'm. I'm doing good on this. But again, to unpack, it took a reprogramming of my brain and it took me taking us a leap of faith to invest potentially in two other humans to come along for the ride and help in this time steer wrangling event that I'm currently in.

Well, I think from a stress levels that I can only imagine there's upside there because there's the mental load. Right. There's the I have to manage all of the tasks part that are part of the sales process.

Yeah.

But then the psychological load is I am responsible for the entire ecosystem of success for this business. I am not actively pursuing revenue. There is no revenue coming in.

Right.

If I am not actively delivering, there is no delivery going out. You know, and that is something that probably worked at the very start of your business, but you've stepped up.

First of all, the thing is at the start of your business, not businesses.

Yeah.

Also client, not clients. Right. At a multiple level. So, like, it has become bigger than I ever dreamed it would become. But I'm not saying that in any sort of negative light. Like, I'm excited as crap that this is where it has ended up and where we're headed. So.

And now you're acting accordingly.

Yes. Yeah, yeah. Maybe it took me longer than it should have to act accordingly, but at least I love myself enough to say, hey, good job. You're acting accordingly to where you actually are now in life. But here's the thing, too. My brain goes to, like, fundamentally, I had to understand where I was.

Oh, yeah.

Before I could make decisions on how then I needed to be. Like, sometimes we actually arrive somewhere before we mentally and physically catch up to the fact that we've actually arrived there. All right, all right. I get to put you back in the hot seat.

Fantastic.

I know you, you. I know you like that. It's like, listen, I have very much the same feeling of, like, crap, I don't really have much more to answer to this. That means that she's going to be able to ask another question. But looking forward, right? I've kind of talked about looking back in the last two questions when we talked about self worth, self forgiveness. You talked about ownership in the. In that one. But looking forward, I feel like we can either be nervous about the path ahead or excited by the possibilities that it may bring. So that mindset often hinges on one thing, Liz, and that's belief. So how has the beyond your default journey shaped your self belief in what's possible for your future?

Self worth, self forgiveness and self belief that. Thanks.

Yes, ma'. Am.

Yes, you came to party. But that's what these episodes are for. And I want to point out that while our listeners may be laughing at how squirrely we get, this is part of the reason why we do this episode.

Yep.

It's because it is uncomfortable and it's okay to be uncomfortable. Discomfort is a part of the process. It is both a feature and a bug. And now that I've danced around answering this question enough, I was wondering right into it. I was wondering, let's go right into it. Yep, self belief. I've looked at this question for what, like, two days? And for those who can't see me, I'm literally just pressing my eyeballs back into my, my head because this is the one that is the question that probably kept me up the most.

You just got to jump off the ledge. Once you start saying it, then it just, it'll just go.

I didn't believe I could have anything. I didn't believe I was allowed to have anything. There was a. Over the past few months, it's gotten a lot better. But for a while there, my whole life slowly came to a stop, as if I was wrapping my entire existence around a moment. A moment that in my mind for a really long time exemplified and illustrated everything that was wrong with me and every mistake I had ever made. This is where we're going to go to a very deep place for a moment because I'm going to talk about a belief I had that has informed in many ways the way I have acted my entire life. So I am an only child of two only children. Okay? That means I have no aunts, uncles, brothers, sisters. I was very close with my mother's side of the family because even though she was an only child, my grandfather had four sisters and one or two brothers. I didn't know the brothers very well, but I knew the four sisters. They were some of the most mythical, incredible, loud Italian women I had ever met. They were. Two of them were two of the first women to ever take the foreign service exam, Worked for the State Department, traveled the world. They were just these incredible, amazing women. And they were. I was very, very close with them. And whenever I was surrounded by that part of the family, my grandfather and his sisters, I always felt like I belonged and I was wanted, unfortunately. So my parents had me when they were older, which was fine. I was an unexpected miracle. My mother had had four miscarriages before she had me, and then suddenly I appeared. And then I was born late with a full head of hair. So, you know, just kind of, you know, I made an entrance.

Go figure.

Yeah. And then my parents divorced before I even remember them being together. I think it was before I was 2 years old. And I watched my mother completely unravel. She had some mental health issues that, you know, I think in today's society probably would have been handled with greater care, but she also had some serious addiction demons that would have probably undermined any. Any movement forward. So for a long time, I just felt like an artifact of a broken marriage, constantly reminded that I made life a lot harder for other people than it needed to be. And so the belief I've always had is that I am an artifact of a broken marriage and a disappointment. And this is kind of the belief I've carried forward for decades, which is. It's kind of hard to unwrap yourself with it, because I've grown up kind of a little bit more solitary. Right. So because my mother was an alcoholic, I never really had friends over.

Right.

I was put into a position of needing to parent her and be the parent when I was very young. And then when I tried to move in with my dad, I tried to be the daughter that he wanted, but, like, I was already pretty messed up. Like, I was a messed up, abused kid. Like, I was not in a good place mentally. Then I moved out on my own. And then I felt even more different because all of my friends were going off to college while I was worrying about rent and, like, trying to build a career. And then I felt so much shame around the fact that, like, ugh, I failed again. Like, again, the artifact, the. The. The remainder of a division problem that wasn't supposed to have a remainder, you know?

Yeah.

And a lot of my family, because my parents were older, died when I was very young, so I ended up not having, like, the actual family ecosystem. I've always had to be very, like, tightly compartmentalized.

Yeah.

So how does this lead to today? You know, one thing I will give myself credit for is that I continue to get up every single day. There's something weird in how I'm programmed where I never quite give up. There's always been something within me that's like you are destined to do something bigger. I didn't know what bigger was. I still to this day do not quite know what that means. But I've always still pushed myself to continue to show up. And this process, especially over the past year, has forced me to stop thinking of myself as different or unique and to realize I am allowed to believe in myself in the way that anybody else has the ability to. Right. It's that idea of. It sounds contradictory, but it's not. Right. Like we are all uniquely built in our unique ways and da da da da da da da da da. But sometimes that unique snowflake internal narrative works against us because we start to think, well, I'm just so different that I'm just so special in the negative ways that these positive ideas around self belief and what we're capable of and worth like those don't apply to me because of somebody new me really, they would say I'm not, I'm the exception to that. And that's just simply not true. So it's this culmination of it's tied into the self worth and the self forgiveness. Right. At some point you just have to stop telling your story and start like, stop telling the worst version of the story of, to yourself and just start living, you know, just start believing that you can get up the next day and try again.

Yeah. You know what I, I say and when I say, what I mean is, what I hear is I'm excited for what happens in the next two years, the next five years, the next 10 years. Because when I hear your story, what I hear is against all odds, God brought a human to the earth to create an incredible story and impact people. But, but God knew that for you to be who he needed you to be, that you had to. You know diamonds, how diamonds are made under pressure, under pressure. And so you had the school of pressure for the beginning of your life. You had the lessons of how to see, understand and connect. You have the ability to connect with people who have gone through journeys much like yourself, but the ability to actually navigate and storytell. And now with beyond your default even under your belt, like literally the tools to help these humans get to a place that they might not get to. And so, so I hear your story and While, yes, it would be very easy to run the negative narrative, I go, holy shit, this chick is built to do, like, something. And again, you don't know what that something is. I don't know what that something is. God knows what that something is. And you are fully on the path of heading in that direction. So I'm.

Thanks.

Your story excites me.

I mean, it. It's taken some distance, you know? Because I will say, when you're in the middle of it, you're not going, this excites me. This pain excites me.

Oh, God, no. God. Yeah.

No, but that's the thing that's always so tricky about these types of things. Right. And this is where our belief structure can get kind of not corroded. But sometimes you just have to understand, like, you're in the middle of plot right now.

Yeah.

And you just kind of have to let things play out. And that's something I've gotten a little better at as I've gotten older.

Yeah.

But, yeah, I don't know. I'm very curious to see where this wild ride goes.

But I stopped, without a doubt, stop.

Trying to figure it out.

There is a transition moment because, like, I go back to. And this is many, many, many, many episodes ago, I talked about the math teacher telling me I'd never amount to anything and how for, you know, 20 years of my life, if somebody said, well, what would you do if you met him? I would have been like, I'll punch him right in the face. That's what I'll do. But then getting to a point in my life where now I would go and thank him. And that's the thing. Like, even though it can be, like, a negative narrative, it doesn't always have to stay the negative narrative because you can start to see it through a different perspective. If that pressure didn't happen to me at 17 and a half, I would not be the human that I am today. Even though it wasn't from a good place, it equaled a good thing. And when we can start to think in that way against the negative narratives in our life now, all of a sudden, we can start to unlock doors of possibility that we didn't even know we had.

I love that it's your turn again. You ready?

Yep.

Because we're talking about vulnerability.

Is this the last one yet, or do I have two more?

You got two more, and I only have one more.

Yeah, well, they were. They were hard questions, though, so I didn't want to. You know, I wanted to be somewhat Nice.

You gave me the same number of questions that I gave you. You just happened to start first. So let's not, let's not paint a picture here of, well, I'm just being so nice. No, no, no, no, no, no, no.

My bad.

But we're talking about vulnerability right now because you, you talk, you talked about vulnerability during that conversation as a transformative superpower. And I would be really curious to hear from you how your relationship with vulnerability has shifted in recent months. And have there been any moments in recent months where those moments have significantly impacted your growth? Because I've watched you become more vulnerable. And I'm curious if that's by design, like I'm watching it happen in real time.

Yeah, it's funny because it's. I don't know if it's something that I am doing on purpose, meaning I don't necessarily have a three step plan to becoming more vulnerable in life. But ever since we did the episode on that, it was a re. Triggering of something that happened back at an inbound event. So let me explain. There was an inbound event where Brene Brown came and spoke to the audience and I had this massively visceral response to the conversation of vulnerability and being vulnerable and connected very deeply with what she talked about. And so I, at that point I was like, you know what? I want to be able to be a man who is vulnerable. I want to be able to be a man who talks about vulnerability. It, I almost relate it to like how twice in my life I had a calling to the ministry. Like, I want to do this thing. It almost felt like a calling, like I was supposed to focus in on that because here was a great woman talking about vulnerability. But look around and where, where do you see a man that is doing that? Where do we see other men that are presenting that like, you know, in a, in a. When I grew up, it was like a suck it up buttercup. Walk it off, like, put dirt on it, whatever, like. So for me, Liz, I've been refocusing on it. And honestly, the way I feel as I've been refocusing on it is there are a lot of years in my life where I had walls up and I would let you in, but not let you in all the way. I would keep a safe distance. So maybe there was like seven walls to George will say. And maybe I would let you, you know, through the first five or so layers, but I would always leave enough space that I could run away before I got hurt, because hurt equals discomfort. And there's this interesting thing that runs around in my brain now of like, if I know that discomfort equals growth, then instead of running from discomfort, how can I actually run towards it and embrace it to go through the process that it's going to provide? Well, if that's the case, then how do I look at vulnerability and actually breaking down the last wall or two that I used to hold people at bay to? Well, if I'm actively seeking discomfort because it equals growth, then being more vulnerable or removing the walls and letting humans in lets the room breathe towards the potential for discomfort. But also it gives it room to be the exact opposite of the discomfort that I might be fearing and be absolutely amazing. And so one of the things that I focus on is, especially lately is how can I be a better husband, how can I be a better father, how can I be a better friend? I keep coming back to that. It's living a life with no walls. And living a life with no walls means I have to aggressively embrace. Now, I don't mean boundaries, I mean walls.

It's like you could read my mind because I immediately want to ask you, so what's the difference between living a life with no walls?

Yeah. And boundaries. Boundaries are. So here's the thing. You can be on a football field and you know the boundaries in and out of bounds, the playing field off limits walls. If I lock the doors, you can't even get into the stadium. You can't get into the stadium to even play the game. Liz. I wasn't letting people into the stadium to play the game that is life next or with me as a human being. And so I'm trying to remove walls out of the way to be more vulnerable, to invoke or enable these way better relationships and outcomes or at least get the discomfort to be able to grow through it and then on the other side of it have a better relationship. And again, I'm. If I can't do this for my circle, family, friends, how am I going to even think that I'm going to be able to do this for the masses, listeners from the stage. So again, not a three step process, but a definite mental visual project that I'm trying to take down a brick of the remaining walls away. Like each and every day.

Is it easier or harder than you thought it would be?

My brain goes to the snowball effect, like when I first started this super difficult. The further I get on this journey, I think the easier it has become. Like I honestly think about it less. I go back to what I said earlier when you do things as a habit and it becomes the norm, you don't necessarily need to think about it as hard or as much because it now has become the norm. And so because this habit of removing something that is in the way is a constant thought, it becomes easier. My biggest fear, though, in this is that I hit a point where something happens. You know how people say it's like easier to gain weight than lose weight? Biggest travesty in my brain is that I get to a point that something happens that I don't foresee, don't think would happen, and all of a sudden I throw the wall or two back up and have to rework this process. That's my biggest fear. The process of where I'm going, I think becomes easier. And again, the more I talk about it, the more I read about it, the more I think about it, the easier it becomes.

I love that. All right, final question.

Yes. Consistency. Consistency is vital to growth. I love that face, by the way you're listening this. You can't see Liz's face, but the face.

So excited for this.

Yeah, she's. She's. She's just ramped up and ready to go for this. Consistency is vital to growth, but it also can be exhausting at times. So over the course of this journey, how has staying committed or being consistent to beyond your default impacted your resilience and ability to persevere through the challenges that you have been facing through your life?

I mean, the reality is, is that the first episodes, if you ever go back and listen to the first episodes of this podcast, you might not be able to hear the difference. But I was showing up as a. As a shell of a human being, which I've already referred to it in answers to other questions in this episode. But I didn't really have a choice. I was the one who suggested we do this. And then once I did that, we used to record at a much earlier time in the morning, and then only in the past couple of months have we shifted it to later in the morning just to accommodate things. Some new things in your schedule. Right. But it. I forced myself at the start of every week during the darkest part of my life to get up and have a conversation at 7:45 in the morning.

Yeah.

About personal growth.

Yeah.

And it was. I couldn't break it. I had to keep show. Like I didn't really have a choice. And so what's been fascinating about it is I didn't look at it each time of. And this is going to be your lesson, Inconsistency. It's just. No, it's the. It's the thing I have to do. It's the thing I have to do because I said I was going to do it. And I knew deep in my soul it was the right thing to be doing. Like, that was really it. Because you know when you're in those dark moments in your life, you're not thinking about some four dimensional chess version of like, and this is how I'm going to achieve you. You are just trying to get up, right? You were just trying to get up and remind yourself that you have to breathe and you are not special and you need to put one foot in front of the other and keep going. My relationship with consistency has been fascinating as we've gone through this journey, though, because it made me realize that I had too many yeses in my life.

Oh.

So this has always been a non negotiable yes for me. And a lot of the work, obviously, that we do together, these are non negotiable yeses. And as I started kind of coming back to life, right, it stopped being the one pinpoint each week where I was consistent, right. Other parts of my life started kind of coming like, it's like coming back online, right? Like, my system started coming back online. I became less traumatized, less freaked out. It was also just like, Liz, at some point, you can't just stay in the hole. You got to start trying to call your way out, right? And I started to notice as I was bringing myself back online, so to speak, I had too many yeses. I had overextended myself personally and in some ways professionally. And I was looking around going, there is no way for me to be consistent. It's actually not physically possible. I wish I had come to that conclusion sooner than I did. It took a little while because at first, when you're showing up and you're being consistent, you're like, yes, I'm doing it. I'm finally living up to the promises. And then it takes a little too long for you to figure out, why am I always tired? Oh, why am I making these weird little mistakes? Oh, I'm slipping around the edges. And I. And then I started to kind of point the finger back at myself. See, this is just another sign that you're just a big old screw up. It's like, no, no, that's not. That's not how any of this works. Right? And so what was interesting is it, it started back with this little morning appointment that we've been keeping for over a year, and I sat down myself. So what are the non negotiables? And this was at the top of the list because I went through, and I was just like, let's just do it chronologically throughout the week, right? And this was always the starting point. So I literally made a list, and I got to the end of the list, went, oh, no. I haven't even written down any of the personal stuff yet. We have a big old problem. And it made me realize one of the keys to being consistent is being very choosy, because you can't be consistent if you're trying to give yourself over to everything and everyone. And I had a very interesting conversation with a friend of mine about a month ago where he's one of my favorite people because he's. We have a similar mindset. We have a similar set of core values and beliefs, but he's looking at things from the opposite angle, right? So he always gives me different ways of looking at the same problem in a way that is still in alignment with what I believe and what I think. But we had an interesting conversation where I actually showed him my perspective. And we were talking about the fact that, like, I had learned how to step back from certain relationships in my life, whether that be romantic or platonic or whatever. And he said, you can't just make a decision about somebody so quickly. I'm like, no, you can. If you get very clear about who you are, what you want, what you don't want, that becomes very fast. That is a very fast answer. What usually is the problem is we don't have the Konis to be honest with ourselves about it. And also, sometimes it does take a little time to learn what you do and don't want to. Like that. That I can buy. However, later on, he and I were having a conversation where we were working through a pretty dense personal problem in our friendship that we were both committed to working out. And I had taken a week to kind of figure out what I thought was going on because I wanted to show up to this conversation constructively. And when we were in the middle of this conversation, I turned to him and said, see, this is the other side of what you were. What I was talking about. You couldn't understand why I will sometimes walk away from something. It's because it allows me to devote my energy like this to the relationships that matter. If I'm giving myself away to everyone all the time, I cannot devote the time and energy to fixing things or showing up in the way I want to for the people who matter, and you are one of the people who matter. So when I think about consistency and the lessons that I've really learned over this past year, what has been fascinating to me is that consistency is deeply tied to choosiness. People can call that an act of selfishness, they can call it an act of self care, but the less I focus on, the more consistent I am able to be.

Love it.

So that's really where I've kind of landed in this journey. Because it's little things, right? It can be. You spend so many hours in the day working or stressing about working or stressing about all these different things you have to take care of. You don't sleep well, so you oversleep, so you miss the next thing, the next day, and then it spirals and. And then it snowballs. And it's just. I had said yes to too many things, and so I've gotten better at saying no and mindfully taking a step back from certain things and then getting really clear on what are my benchmarks for something to become a yes.

So good. It's funny, you're throwing my brain for loop, which I know I'm going to dive deep into, like, later, probably this week or next weekend, of this cosmic relationship between focus and consistency. And, you know, the idea of, like, focus being the direction of your energy, but then consistency being the kind of sustainable progress that you want to have. And where my brain really starts to explode or implode is like, well, you can journey 12 paths at once. Like, that's like an impossibility. And so it's. Yeah, I know. I want to dig deeper into that as. As we move forward, but that's me also stalling before you ask me my last question.

Yeah. Because this is your final question, and it's the final question of the episode.

Yeah.

So we've already said this a few times. It's been over a year since we started this journey together. I'd be curious, what are the greatest and most surprising lessons you've learned? And is there anything you'd go back and tell yourself at the start of this journey?

Wow. So surprising or most challenging? And is there anything that I would tell myself at the beginning?

I like how you heard most challenging because I think this is a challenging question for you, but all it is is what are the greatest and most surprising lessons you learned?

Oh, okay. I tried to start this podcast two, three, three years ago. I think I did, like, three episodes by myself. I knew this was something that I felt like I was supposed to birth to the world. So surprisingly to me, I think is just the fact that we've been able to do it for a year and we've had topics every week for a year that have been challenging. Listen, no topic that we've picked is like, let's just pick one so we can kind of pussyfoot around it and like make a feel good piece of content. Like every episode I feel like that we've done has been in the trenches. Here's what people are dealing with, here's what we've dealt with, here's a story from our lives. And so to consistently go through that every week for a year and come out the other side better instead of curled up in the fetal position.

Sometimes that happens though.

Yeah, like so, so surprising just how consistent we've been and how going into an all out mental, emotional war these have felt like to enable the people on the other side of the mic to free themselves, unlock themselves, become and believe in themselves in a way that they can. This, this podcast truly has been, Liz, a catalyst. The newsletter has been a catalyst because we've seen it, we've had people write in, talk to us, and so that how easy it has been to trudge through what is a difficult set of conversations was surprising. I also think another surprising piece that has come out of it is the Superhuman framework and the realization that that too was something that my mind birthed around 2014, at least the beginning portions of it. When I would end my videos with don't forget to be a happy, helpful, humble human, and that I also wrote down a longer version in a document that stayed hidden for. I think it was over two, maybe two and a half years before I shared it with you. That then was able to, wasn't it?

From the pandemic? Yeah, that's four years ago, but.

Oh, four years ago, yeah. So shared a document and then out of that we rebirthed this superhuman framework and started to enable and use that in different ways. And now to see where that's going from, not only personal growth, but professional growth and organizational culture, like, that's shocking to me, you know, surprising. Like, I didn't see that coming out of this. If I had to go back and tell myself something, boy, I would probably go back. And I don't know if it's telling myself or reminding myself of something. And what I mean is I would want to temper my expectations. So many times when we create content, create podcasts, we can fall into this trap of like, build it and they will come. And sometimes when you're Building content. You also think that, like, well, of course my family's gonna listen, maybe not. Of course my friends will listen, maybe not. And so this idea of we're gonna create it and, you know, the masses will show up and watch the game and be excited. I would want to temper that a little bit more, because what's interesting as I think about the past year is we haven't really been playing a game that we should invite an entire stadium to. We've actually been playing a game that is more along the lines of, like, ping pong or tennis. It's about the right person being across the table or across the net from us and us being able to mentally and emotionally serve up the ball, that then they have the option to either hit back and continue to listen to other episodes or continue to work on themselves. And so what's funny is, I guess, Liz, what I'm saying is I would remind myself of my own methodology around the mathematics of 1. It doesn't matter if one person listens to one episode or if one person listens to a hundred episodes, or if 10 people listen to a thousand episodes. What you need to focus on is the mathematics of one, because what will that one person listening to one podcast episode due to their life? What will that one person listen to 10 episodes do to their life? Who will they impact? Right. Because my mathematics of one is all about the eventual, like, ripples at the end of my journey. And I have to believe that even though some of my immediate expectations may have not been met from a business owner, mathematical measurement side of things, I'm a firm believer that we've definitely, over the last year, created some ripples. I'm fine with that. But I would probably go back and remind myself to be fine with that along the way.

That's beautiful. I also think, you know, it's interesting to hear you talk about that. Like, your friends might listen, your friends might not listen. What I have noticed over the past year is that then I'm surprised by who is.

Yes.

Like, I get random text messages from people like, wait, you listen? Yeah, I've been listening to every episode since the beginning.

Yeah.

What? Or, my God, I loved your newsletter. Or where is your newsletter? What is fascinating to me is that we are having very intimate conversations about personal growth, conversations that I think you and I are very comfortable having. But we forget that, you know, in a lot of ways, we aren't comfortable having these conversations, and a lot of other people are not comfortable having these conversations, which means they aren't necessarily going to be the loudest when they are the most tuned in. I am very interested to see what happens when we do. Inevitably, another check in episode around our two year mark.

Oh, there's another one. Okay.

Yeah. Yes. Every 15 to 20 episodes. I'm gonna yell at you, I'll prep, but I will say, George, this is, this is an honor.

Yeah.

This is an incredible moment. So I would love to hear from you. What do you want the listeners to take away from this episode today? We've covered a lot of ground.

Yeah.

We've talked about a lot of different things. What is, what is their takeaway from our lessons?

Yeah. So the thing that I would say because Liz and I have gotten to the point where we weren't being nice to each other, we were asking tough questions. But what I would want the listeners to do is actually go back to the questions and write down like the core principle or mindset that we were actually asking each other. And I would use that as a little bit of check in balance for yourself. So for instance, how are you dealing with self worth? How are you dealing with self belief? How are you dealing with consistency and focus in your life? Like these are just a couple examples of like the light feather, light, you know, questions that I was asking Liz during this episode. So go back through those, those questions and say, how am I doing on these things? The good thing is there are episodes that tie back to everything that we have kind of answered or talked about that you can then dive in based on. Oh, I'm killing it at this, but woo, I need some help with that. Then go listen to an episode around that or email us and ask us questions around it. Like literally. That's the other piece that surprises me is I don't know if the listeners understand how fully ready I am we are to like respond via email or text or phone, if you have my text or phone, by the way. But like I literally am open to any and all of that. Because what I want the listeners to take away from this episode is we are actively in a battle to become 1% better each and every day. And we are here to help you with that as you journey through life trying to achieve this elusive thing that we love to call a life beyond your default.