Alex Tarnava: Unlocking Longevity with Hydrogen Gas - Anti-Aging, Energy & Inflammation | TUH #150

Our last universal common ancestor, the single cell organism that spawned all life on this planet, actually consumed hydrogen as its fuel source.

When I talk about hydrogen in the water, their reaction is, well, doesn't the gas just float to the top, go out into the atmosphere? How are you able to ingest the hydrogen gas and have it create its therapeutic effect in the body?

Hydrogen water gets into the gut a lot better than inhalation. They elevate different tissues in different capacities. It's better for a lot of these metabolic conditions.

There is a significant, significant improvement in mental alertness. Almost replaced caffeine with hydrogen. I feel the difference. You don't feel stimulated, but you just feel more clean and clear and awake. There are a lot of people that poo poo the hydrogen tablets as a therapeutic measure for reducing inflammation.

Hydrogen is in fact, a weak antioxidant in vitro and it's only driving towards homeostasis. And this is actually critically important because.

Hey, guys, welcome back to the Ultimate Human Podcast. I'm your host, human biologist Gary Brecker, where we go down the road of everything anti aging, biohacking, longevity, and everything in between. And as most of you guys know, I am way down the rabbit hole and a big, big proponent of hydrogen gas, hydrogen water, as a way to reduce inflammation, improve our circulation, as a way to actually just make this a part of our health and wellness journey. And I am so excited for today's guest because we are going to go deep down the rabbit hole of the science behind hydrogen gas and how this gas, this simple gas, can change the trajectory of your health journey. And I've been using hydrogen water for years now. I was a big proponent of, of using it for exercise, for improving performance. But now we have the scientifically validated research to really support some of the claims, and we probably have. The world's most renowned expert on the podcast today developed and patented the first clinically valid hydrogen tablet, which I use every day, H2 tabs. But I really want to go down the the rabbit hole of the research into how can hydrogen gas be simply incorporated into your life and make a major improvement on your health journey. So welcome to the podcast. Alex Tarnova. Tarnava. Tarnava. There's a. There, there's a common theme and my viewers hear me talk about this all the time that runs through most of my podcasts, and that is that I feel like the people that are the most passionate, the most purpose driven, that are making the biggest change in the world are people that have solved the problem in their life. And you have a really interesting story about what led you to hyper focus on hydrogen gas and elemental magnesium. I wonder if you might share that story and then. And let's get into the science.

Yeah, absolutely. So I'll be as brief as possible so you can focus on the good stuff. But as we were talking about earlier, I mean, up until this event in my life, I would research, learn about something for a few months and then get bored and move on. And so I was kind of a generalist. I had an encyclopedia of knowledge on a million different things, but wasn't really close to an expert on anything.

Right.

And fast forward to when I was 29. I was running a successful business in a completely different industry on an innovation I'd had there. But that business was giving me a lot of free time. I was on the road a month, like a week out of the month. And when I was at home, I was working like an hour a day, two hours a day. So I was basically training as if I was a professional athlete, even though I wasn't. I was training four to six hours a day, five days a week. Six days a week. And having an active recovery day once or twice a week.

Jiu jitsu.

Yeah. Various martial arts, CrossFit. I did some CrossFit competitions at the time too. And I was in by far the best shape of my life. Right. And all of a sudden I got really sick. And they never were able to figure out what happened. But it's most probable I had some sort of virus that caused an autoimmune reaction. So basically overnight I developed sudden onset narcolepsy. You know, if I sit down and wasn't engaged for a minute or two, I'd fall asleep.

Wow.

I was sleeping like 16 hours a day.

I had crushing fatigue.

Yeah, crushing fatigue. I had also central nervous system fatigue. So basically I went from being able to do like 20 bar muscle ups unbroken to I couldn't do a chest of our. Or a 54 inch plyometric box jump to. I couldn't get airtime. I couldn't jump an inch off the ground with both feet.

Wow.

And I couldn't sprint, do anything that was explosive and reactive. But my slower movements, like my deadlift, my squat, my bench press were completely unaffected. My strength was normal. Wow. Right. In addition, I had very high markers of inflammation. So my C reactive protein, my C reactive proteins were about 100 and 100 times abnormal. Wow. They were, you know, 34 milligrams a liter. Wow. Peak.

So by the way, C reactive protein should Be less than three. It actually technically be less than one. Yeah. If you want to have a really.

Low risk of cardio, I mean usually you might spike to.

Yeah.

One to three when you're sick, when you have a cold or the flu or something. Right. Most healthy people are below 0.5. Right, right. Like if you're metabolically healthy.

Right.

You know, if you have chronic inflammation, you start trending up. But for a 29 year olds in the shape I was in, I should have been below 0.5, below 0.3.

People that are not familiar with C reactive protein, it's a non specific marker of inflammation, doesn't tell you exactly what's causing it, but it tells you that something is going on in your body. The liver is reacting, creating this protein that is an indicator of, of inflammation. Could be in the brain, could be in the liver, the lungs, the pancreas, the kidneys and the blood be coming from just about anywhere. But when it gets really, really high, like what you're explaining, this is cause for investigation. So. So you have this elevated C reactive protein, you know, you're crushing fatigue, which is by the way, classic viral. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

And my roommate got really sick at the time too. And it hit him different. He actually had to go to the hospital a couple times with pneumonia. Right. And this was a guy who was, you know, top threeing in triathlons and Spartan races. So again he was a super fit, healthy 29 year old that got taken out by, by whatever hit us. It just, he didn't get the autoimmune response like I did.

Right.

But this lasted a couple months and when the dust settled, I was left with polyarthritis. So I developed osteoarthritis in 11 joints, the worst of which is my left shoulder, which, this is as high as it goes now. It's bone on bone. But also my hip was quite bad. My, my hands and you know, basically anywhere I'd had an injury in sports throughout my long life of contact and combat sports. Wow. I was told I had to quit working out. Right. Period. You cannot exercise more. You can't lift weights. Just walk.

Right, right.

Maybe do like some swimming, just like with, you know, breaststroke or something that doesn't need the shoulder. And they put me on a thousand milligrams of naproxen a day. So think like super aleve, like a leave is naproxen, but you might get 200 milligrams. So I was on five times that dose and I was taking cortisone Injections.

Okay.

And I just knew that none of this was how I wanted the rest of my life to go. And it wasn't a long term solution. It was going to lead to long term side effects. So the time I'd spent exercising, I just dove into PubMed and I just started reading any study I could find on regulating inflammatory response and any sort of therapeutic. Started a ton of different biohacks from growing, going to cryo saunas and normal saunas and, you know, trying to get.

This out of you, whatever.

Trying to get it.

I.

And at the time I found some research on hydrogen water and this. The industry was very nascent at the time. There's only, you know, 40, 50 studies. But I found a couple clinical trials and I bought a machine for like $5,000.

This hydrogen gas purportedly. Okay.

So I went on my merry way and didn't know if what, if anything was working because I was still taking the naproxen and the cortisone injections and trying to get back into exercise. And eight or nine months later, I fainted a few times in the gym. So I, I developed multiple ulcers from the naproxen and I had to abruptly stop. Right. So basically as I stopped in a proxim, I hadn't had a cortisone shot in a while. All my joints froze within a few days.

Wow.

So I realized that nothing I was doing was really helping. Like going to the sauna and the cryo. It would help for a few hours or the rest of the day, but then I'd wake up, right. Rough again. And you just stiff as a board. Exactly right. I couldn't put on socks without sitting down or lying down. I couldn't put on jackets and, and some shirts. Like it was rough. And I went back to PubMed and I just started reading more and more. And in this nine month period, I found some new research on hydrogen water. And at first it, it pissed me off because I had this $5,000 paperweight that wasn't helping. Right. But then it just dawned on me. I took the salesman's word for it that this made hydrogen water. How do I know there's hydrogen gas in here and what dose is needed? So I started buying the full studies to read the material and methods. And I found that not a single one of them at the time were using a machine like what I'd bought. They were making the hydrogen water in labs in various ways, like bubbling gas or using magnesium under pressure. So then I found a reagent to Test for hydrogen gas and water. And I ordered it, and the first test, it detected no hydrogen. I had to over triple the input to reduce a single drop. Putting it at.

Is that the methylene blue test?

Yeah, yeah. Putting it at like 0.03 parts per million.

Right.

Which is well below the lowest ever observed.

You know, any kind of therapeutic dose.

Any type of physiological effect on the body, like, you know, 1. 1 30th of the lowest observed minimum threshold to do anything.

Right, right.

So that gave me a bit of hope, and I went about trying to source magnesium, which was going to be the easiest way for me to do it. And first I sourced some rods, and then I had some concerns that with magnesium rods, I'm. I don't know how much magnesium I'm getting, and I didn't want to get hyper magnesia. And so then I started thinking I need a powder so I can control the dose. Quickly realized it's very hard to get elemental magnesium powder. Like in the United States, it's controlled by the State Department and DoD. You have to go through background checks and everything. So I sourced some from Eastern Europe and some from China at first. And they arrived saying, like, silver paint, coloring. I'm like, okay, this is a little bit sketchy, but I tried anyways. I figured the powder floats, so I wasn't able to make the hydrogen water, and I'm going to need to compress this. So that's where the tablet idea came. I sort of compressing you eventually ended.

Up patenting this because, I mean, I take your tabs, your H2 tabs, every day. I travel with them now. They're super easy to use. You know, I either use the hydrogen water bottle or I use these tablets. And interestingly, you know, a lot of my audience is like, listen, I don't have 250 bucks or 275 bucks for a hydrogen water bottle. But these tablets are inexpensive. But the elemental magnesium is what's effervescing into the hydrogen gas.

Yeah. So basically, the elemental magnesium and the organic acids we're using are reacting with the water, and it's breaking that bond between the H2 and the oxygen. Right. And that's what creates these small nanobubbles that you see in the water so you can drink down the hydrogen water. Now, basically, the magnesium in a couple complex reactions goes from the elemental magnesium to just free magnesium ions, Mg2 plus, which is exactly what our body needs.

Right.

So it doubles as a highly bioavailable magnesium supplement element.

Wow.

So.

And so many of Us are so deficient in this, like, essential, essential metal. Yeah, we really are.

Yeah. No, we are like, I think 80 to 90 of them.

Yeah. So many people sleep overnight by adding, you know, magnesium.

And you, you likely know there's. There's big bioavailability concerns with a lot of the magnesium supplements on the market. Someone might go buy a magnesium oxide that's on average 4 or 5% bioavailable.

Right.

So we are delivering it in the exact form your body needs. Your stomach doesn't have to liberate it off of another compound. It just freely goes into your system.

Yeah.

So it's completely bioavailable because of the way we're delivering it. But. So, yeah, when I started developing these tablets, we. I quickly started feeling better.

Now, when you, were you drinking them, were you bathing them, were you?

I was drinking. So I was drinking several liters a day and I was getting at first to about three parts per million, you know, sealing them under pressure. And my joints loosened, I felt better. I'm like, wow, there's something here. But then I had a bit of a sober second thought. I didn't want to win a Darwin Award.

Yeah.

You know, like, blow yourself up. Blow myself up in my kitchen with hydrogen gas.

And by the way, elemental magnesium is flammable and it burns at a very.

High temperature, 5,800 degrees Fahrenheit. Right. It's the whitened fireworks.

Right.

Which is why it's so, so tightly controlled. And I had to go through background checks and everything, like, but also too, like, I wanted to test for heavy metals and contaminants and is there any dangerous side reaction that's happening? Like, I understood enough about the basic chemistry, but I'm not a chemist.

Right. Right.

So I found my founding partner, you know, Dr. Richard Holland. He's a PhD in organic chemistry. He works in the pharmaceutical industry. So he designs small molecules for different therapeutic topic targets. And I found him, he was doing consulting work, offering it, and I told him about my project and he said, this is the worst pseudoscience I've ever heard in my life.

Not what you wanted to hear?

Yeah, well, he gave me a list of reasons why it wouldn't work. Why you like. Hydrogen has no role in the body, and even if it did, you should inhale it and not drink it because of the low saturation point. And if you'd like, we can get into that later. The pharmacokinetics of inhalation and water are actually completely different. Hit different organs in different ways. But because I'd read every study to date on hydrogen as a therapeutic, like at that time, I was able to rebut all of his responses with peer reviewed evidence. And he came back to me and said, like, I'm actually in shock. Right. I still don't really believe it, but there's enough that I can help you out. Sure. Right. So he starts tweaking my formula. I'm sending him a new publication every day just to pique his interest because I'm really excited about the project and he calls me for lunch. And serendipitously, I sent him this clinical trial on a certain disease state. And it was a decent size and it was using a high concentration at the time, about 5 parts per million over a liter a day. And it found pretty good results in this group, in this population.

Okay.

And I was not aware, but his current job was developing small molecules for this exact disease.

Wow.

And he said, you know, with the other studies you've sent, I'm not a subject matter expert, right. So I just have to trust the findings, look at the, you know, methodology and trust the researchers. But with this I am and in lessic is fraud. This works and it works better than the molecules I'm developing. Right. Are you interested in commercializing this? Right. So I thought long and hard about it. I had no expertise in this area and I was just doing this as a do it yourself project for my own health. But I figured, why not? What do I have to lose? I can learn as I go. Let's do this. Right. So I proceeded forward and it only took a few weeks to refine. There wasn't much changes to my formulation to get to work in a mortar and pestle. But then the hard work started. We quickly realized that doing this in mass, making millions of tablets at high speed, is dramatically different for safety, for getting the reaction right, everything, than making 20 in a mortar and pestle. Mixing by hand and then hand pressing. It took us a year, over 2,000 iterative adjustments and 15 failed scale up attempts at manufacturing to get our first production ready tablet.

Wow.

Since then we've stopped counting at version 5000, but we're probably at 10,000 iterative adjustments in the R and D process to get to where we are, to.

Where you can take elemental magnesium, compress it, have it sink to the bottom of a glass and ever vest into.

The water and get in this open cup and get these small nano bubbles in the 10 to 30 nanometer in range, which is critically important so that in say, half a liter of water or 16.8 ounces. We're getting over 12 parts per million. That's incredible.

I mean, that's really incredible. And I think a lot of people, you know, when I talk about hydrogen gas in the water, their first reaction is, well, doesn't the gas just float to the top and then, you know, go out into the atmosphere? You know, how are you able to ingest the hydrogen gas and have it, you know, create its therapeutic effect in the body? I can tell you that I feel the difference. I've almost replaced caffeine with hydrogen and.

I know I told you. We have a couple clinical trials head to head against caffeine after acute sleep deprivation. Really? In the first study, we showed equivalent improvement in the Attention Network test to caffeine, but they affected different domains of. Of attention. Right. Caffeine effects alerting, and the hydrogen affected orienting. Right. So we did a bigger, better controlled study with four groups. And it was a, you know, crossover design also. So everyone did all therapies. So it was. It was a quadruple crossover so design. So there was placebo, placebo, hydrogen placebo, caffeine placebo, and caffeine plus hydrogen. And it found that the hydrogen groups, with or without caffeine, had a substantially more robust improvement in brain metabolism, so choline to creatine ratios in the brain than the caffeine alone. So hydrogen was basically, it's. As your brain metabolism slows due to the acute stress of sleep deprivation, hydrogen is temporarily restoring it back to proper function.

I've noticed that truly when I travel, and sometimes I do my best to schedule meetings and travel around sleep and exercise, but sometimes flights happen when flights happen, meetings happen when they happen, or you're just in a different time zone. And there is a significant improvement, I notice, in mental alertness and just my general sense of, I would say, cognitive energy. Right. You don't feel stimulated, but you just feel more clean and clear and awake and focused. Interestingly, I wrote, I read a study, I think it was actually with your tablets. And I'll put the links in the. In the study notes below was in the Journal of Experimental Gerontology, and it was in November of 2021. Yep. And what I found really fascinating because I've been not down the road of developing hydrogen tablets or hydrogen water bottles, but of researching the hydrogen gas. Because I think it's one of those things that, in my opinion, will be as common as a multivitamin in 10 years. Because the evidence is so strong.

I think so, yeah. But.

But what I read in experimental gerontology was that they were 70 year olds and 70 and up. Yes.

77 or 70 average age.

Yeah. Okay, so, okay, so then you're obviously very familiar with it and I might paraphrase it wrong, but they, this was a six month study and it was, it was double blind, it was placebo controlled and so one group was drinking hydrogen water. I forget what the parts per million where the other group was not. But they measured telomere lengths which improved. They measured. Yeah, yeah, they got measured cognitive scoring which improved. They measured sleep. So they actually were looking at stages of sleep, deep REM sleep. They measured their sit stand ratio, which I thought was really interesting. I mean that there might be some effect on sarcopenia like age, age related muscle wasting. They measured different factors in the frontal lobe of the brain, their reaction times and across the board all of these metrics improved. And they even used a marker, I think tattoo, the methylation.

Well, that's linked to young blood. So anyone who's seen the research where they take an aged mouse and they take the blood of a young mouse and you know, swap it out like an oil change and it revitalizes. Right. The old mouse skeletal tissue anyways, that's linked to tattoo. So we doubled that in the blood I saw.

Which it's also a marker of methylation, which I'm very interested in because I think that when the body's able to take compounds and convert them into the usable form. Yeah. You know, you're improving the cellular metabolism and you're making that cell less susceptible to all forms of disease and sickness because it can eliminate waste and it can repair, it can detoxify, can regenerate. But I thought it was fascinating that they actually were measuring markers of methylation in 70 plus year olds.

Tattoo was my idea was actually in that study. So that's. You can bring it in. Like research is, is very important to me when I decided to go down this road. As we all know, there's so many snake oil salesmen in the health industry and supplements and I wanted to do something that I could look at myself in the mirror and go to bed happy and feel like I'm having a purpose in life and I'm doing something good, not just out there to make money.

Right, right.

So as we were getting ready to launch, I did a bunch of research on what the regulatory requirements are. So we have grass status and new dietary ingredient status with the FDA. Actually now we have 21 validated structure function claims to FTC standards through, through an expert panel that reviewed all our research. But to I wanted to make sure that my hunch that the higher concentration and dose we were delivering was actually going to have an effect and wasn't going to have a harm because that's very important with any molecule. Every molecule works on a dose dependent and sometimes concentration dependent response and increasing the dose can increase efficacy, but there could be side effects. And I really wanted to explore this to make sure I was delivering something that was safe and effective for people. So before we launched, as we were doing our first production run, I emailed every single first and corresponding author on every single clinical trial on hydrogen and preclinical in mice.

Okay.

And I offered free product, free placebo and to donate funds, no questions asked. So I don't believe in silencing science.

If so, so if the research came out negative, not in favor of what you were doing, they still wanted to publish it. Okay.

Exactly.

Love that.

We cannot understand this world better if we're not publishing negative data.

Wow.

As we've talked about before that the big problem, there is a law passed in the 1920s called shareholder supremacy. So corporations have to do what's best for their shareholders and if they don't, they're breaking the law and can be sued. Right. So that's why I've kept my company private so that I can make my own decisions.

Right.

And be like, this is what is true and ethical and moral.

Right.

This is how I'm going to do. And that's why I've resisted all, you know, venture capitalists who have tried to invest Right. In my companies. So I got some bites. And that's why now, just in the last six, seven years since we've been doing research, we actually have more clinical and preclinical research than all other commercial hydrogen water products combined.

Wow.

Right. So, and, and we have way more that, that's, you know, we, we have like over 20 human studies now.

We have, I've read a lot of them. We have ankle injuries, CTEs, traumatic brain injuries, inflammatory compounds. I, I actually want to do that. I want to go down sort of the road of hydrogen gas and its implication in a bunch of different categories.

You know, we can, we can actually even talk about it from the beginning, why it's important from evolution and why we're not getting that. So what we're realizing is first we realize that hydrogen is having this impact on the body, right? Then the question is, what's the mechanism? How is it having this impact? And we've now been able to identify, there's a few different mechanisms that's working. So throughout the whole body, it's acting as something called a mitohormetic effector. So that's hormesis of the mitochondria. Right. So hormesis is anything like a stress that's mild enough that we get stronger from and adapt.

Right.

So exercise, cold exposure, sauna, sunlight even. Yeah. Radiation in certain amounts, like sunlight, even ethanol at the right dose.

Right.

And timing, it's just with hormetic agents, they all operate on like a reverse U or a reverse Jeff. When you don't get it at all, you start here. If you get the right dose and timing, you improve your health. And then if you go too high, it goes either back to baseline or a lot worse. Like with alcohol, it's a very tight reverse chain, which is why we can't really recommend alcohol for anyone at any dose, because every person would find a benefit at a different dose and every day. So we just don't have the science there to make advice. But so we're, we're acting kind of like exercise for the mitochondria, which is improving the health and the number of the mitochondria. In addition, hydrogen is interacting with our microbiome. It's improving gut health. And in a yet to be fully understood mechanism, we know we're partially metabolizing it in the liver and it's driving liver homeostasis. So there's a few ways that hydrogen is helping. And now why is hydrogen doing this in our body? What, what role did it have? We actually have to go back to the very beginning of evol solution. So our last universal common ancestor, the, the single cell organism that, that spawned all life on this planet actually consumed hydrogen as its fuel source. Right. And then our first mitochondria came from eukaryotes. And those eukaryotes was a symbiotic relationship between organelle, one of which expelled hydrogen as a waste product.

Right.

And now we've actually carried that throughout all of evolution. And there's other factors too. At times in evolution, a couple billion years ago, there was a lot more.

Hydrogen exposure to hydrogen gas. And obviously it's a necessary element, but I mean, the, you know, I would say that what are we, 60 or 67% water by weight?

Yeah.

So obviously we have a lot of.

Molecular hydrogen is the first molecule in the universe too. Right. So it's seems obvious in retrospect that it has a role in our life and our body. And we actually, we evolved to produce A tremendous amount of hydrogen gas internally, endogenously. We do this by fermenting fiber. Now, the big problem here is throughout the majority of human evolution, we were consuming 100 to 150 grams of dietary fiber a day. Now, the average person in the Western world consumes 10 to 15 grams of dietary fiber a day. But the average person on a standard American diet is only consuming 1 to 3 grams of fiber a day.

Wow.

So we're not getting the fuel to produce hydrogen. And the bacteria that are breaking down fiber in this process and releasing H2 gas, they're like any living thing. If you stop feeding them, they die. And that is one of the reasons we're getting that. This dysbiosis of the microbiome, you know, these hydrogen producing bacteria are dying out. They're being replaced by methane producing bacteria.

Right.

So actually when we do studies, we, we can look at a high percentage of middle age and older metabolically impaired people. We give them a hydrogen breath test lactose, and they produce more methane than hydrogen or no hydrogen at all.

Wow.

And this is critically important because we know that methane is strongly correlated with basically every disease outcome. It's correlated with mortality. And we also know that hydrogen is correlated with longevity. So a study in Centenarium, so people over 100 in Okinawa found that these centenarians had higher breath hydrogen than the average young person. Wow. So their lifestyle had carried.

They had the healthy microbiome to produce the hydrogen gas.

Yeah. And as we know, with a lot of the gut dysbiosis, some of the bacteria doesn't come back.

Right, Right.

So for a lot of people that have not lived a perfect lifestyle, which who has, you can maybe only get your hydrogen at the right dose exogenously. Right through hydrogen water or hydrogen inhalation or gas.

Yeah.

Yeah.

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This is actually where it gets kind of interesting and makes hydrogen a lot more profound than just a standard anti inflammatory or an antioxidant. So hydrogen is in fact a weak antioxidant in vitro. Right. So outside of a living body in a test tube or a cell culture, which is why we can get a negative RP from it. But how it's actually working as an antioxidant in vivo is similar to how exercise works. It's actually acutely an oxidative stress in the mitochondria that, that's what's actually triggering Nerf 2 reaction, you know, activation, which. Exactly. Which we produce more glutathione catalase, superoxide dismutase. So we're producing more of our endogenous antioxidants and it's only driving towards homeostasis. And this Is actually critically important because there are a lot of deleterious effects from taking too high of antioxidants. Right, right. You can go into reductive stress, which is as harmful as being oxidatively stress. So hydrogen just drives towards redox homeostasis. It's getting this harmony back between the yin and yang of our reductive molecules. And because you're behind the body's physiologic.

Process to create homeostasis rather than imposing it upon.

Exactly. And it's doing the same thing with inflammation. So it can actually acutely spike inflammation, Just like exercise. Exercise will release Interleukin 6, which is one of the nastiest pro inflammatory cytokines. But it's such a low amount from skeletal tissue that it's a myokine role. And hydrogen does the same thing which drives this harmonious inflammatory response. And a lot of people just think of. Of inflammation is a bad word.

Yes.

It's only bad when it's not behaving how it's supposed to. Inflammation is critically important to our physiology.

It's part of healing.

Exactly right. And nothing in the body would heal.

Without the inflammatory response.

Exactly right. It's part of our immune system to fight off viruses. Actually, that, that was one of the big issues with COVID 19. There's a lot of people. A lot of people's bodies weren't recognizing it was a threat, so they didn't have sufficient inflammatory response at the beginning. And then once the virus started taking over, their body would panic and they go into cytokine storm. Right. Having this healthy, harmonious inflammatory response is incredibly important. And hydrogen drives that. And it does that for a lot of other processes too, like autophagy. It's all the rage. And anti aging with autophagy. And a lot of people think, oh, I want to always be activating autophagy. But no, you want to intermittently activate autophagy. And in a lot of research, hydrogen has shown to actually activate autophagy. Autophagy. But in some important studies, it's shown to inhibit autophagy, like after heart failure and drowning resuscitation, when you absolutely don't want that to happen.

Right.

So in a way it can. It's kind of. We'll explain hydrogen kind of like a. A supervisor.

Yeah.

In our cell.

It's sort of a selective antioxidant, if you will. And meaning that, you know, it's. If we could get behind our own cellular physiology, Our own cellular biology to create homeostasis, reduce the inflammatory response when it's not needed and not inhibit the inflammatory response where it is. Like, I've started taking it before hyperbaric sessions because I know that, you know, these oxidative species, you know, high amounts of oxygen under pressure can actually have negative effects, like, and positive effects. And I can mitigate some of those by taking the hydrogen, but actually potentiate the stress acutely.

And we've talked about this before.

Yeah.

So there's really cool research on hydrogen with other hormetic stresses. You know, whether it be heat exposure, cold exposure, exercise, that acutely, hydrogen is actually increasing the stress response. But then after the stress finishes, it's driving back to homeostasis faster. Wow. So, like, with exercise, that's as if you worked out harder and recovered quicker.

Yeah.

Because it's spiking the inflammation and oxidative stress higher and then dropping back down to homeostasis faster.

Yeah. And, you know, I notice in athletes I've introduced, Introduced several very dominant athletes like Michael Chandler or Jon Jones, other athletes that I can't name consider publicly public about their work with me. When I introduce hydrogen water, it seems to close that last five yards for them. It reduces the amount of pain that they wake up in in the morning. Like knees, hips, shoulders, rotator cuff. I've seen firsthand what happens to people when I put them in a hydrogen bath. Bath. You know, I was getting ready to invest almost a hundred thousand dollars in this electrolysis unit that made oxygen water, and I got this hydrogen generating machine and. And started to use it in my bathtub. And what I've seen get in and out of that bathtub is nothing short of miraculous. I don't even talk about it online because so many people would say you're a charlatan because you can't put somebody in a hydrogen bath that has crippled with arthritis, and then they just walk out of your unit like they won the lottery. But I've seen it.

We. We have a couple clinical trials using, you know, why. Can't wait for those, dude. Yeah. These H2 tabs, you know, in bathing.

Yeah.

Right. And anecdotally, like, you know, as we talked about, I. I love martial arts. I'm a lifetime martial artist, and a buddy of mine is a former UFC fighter, and during one of his camps, he. He cracked his rip.

Right.

Like, and he was a. I gave him a ton of H2 tabs. Right. And he was taking daily baths, and he was able to continue training every day and make his fight.

Wow.

Six weeks later when he cracked his rip.

Wow.

So really cool. Anecdotes like that.

Well, I read the study that, that you published on. It was a lateral ankle injury, and it was recovery after, you know, acute injury. And what I thought was fascinating was it reduced the inflammatory process but didn't reduce the inflammation. And I know that sounds like an oxymoron, but, you know, ice creates this vasoconstriction. And what you were doing was comparing the RICE method, you know, rest, rest, ice, compress, elevate to the use of hydrogen. And hydrogen wasn't creating this constrictive effect, which was reducing the presence of inflammation. It was actually reducing the inflammatory response, but improving the circulation.

So there's cool research on that that, you know, cold exposure reduces blood plasma flow.

Right.

So you're not getting healing to where you've injured.

Right. Because the plasma has the platelets, and the platelets carry the growth factors, which causes the healing.

Hydrogen is regulating inflammatory response, but it's actually increasing blood plasma flow. So this was an acute study, and I wish we'd recruited more people. I think it was only like 12 participants.

Right.

And we were equivalent to RICE protocol, but in four very important markers. We were had strong trends to be better after this single session than RICE protocol. I think the professor told me if we'd recruited three more people, it would have been significantly better than RICE protocol in lowering inflammation, in improving range of motion, and decreasing the visual analog score for pain. And there was another. I. I can't. Oh, circumference.

Yeah, the. The. The. The. I. I read another one of your studies. I've read a lot of your studies, by the way. You know, that was looking at CTE and traumatic brain injury and immediately post concussion, using H2 tabs in the buccal fold, just putting it there, and letting high amounts of hydrogen gas get into the body so that you can reduce the inflammatory response post concussion. I don't want to misquote it because it was your study, but I want to say that, you know, there. The way that concussions are evaluated, you use the standard concussion evaluation protocol, and there are a number of categories that qualify you for having a discussion, having a concussion. And he had, I want to say, 13 of 24 the next day that was cut in half. And then the severity score, how they. They rate the severity of these different measurements, was also cut in half. In fact, it was cut by more than 70%. I remember reading as. I was so blown away that I was like, why not immediately after concussion, are we not just giving hydrogen gas?

I think in the future, we Might. And, you know, we have a RAT study that came out of Stony Brook in New York for post stroke recovery that found some synergy between hydrogen and minocycline. Right. To. To improve the post stroke recovery. And Sunday, Brook actually has a clinical trial underway on post stroke recovery.

Wow.

So there. There's a lot of cool research that's coming down the pipe here. As I mentioned, we've got over 20 human studies. I think we have five more that are either finishing up peer review or in press and about to publish, and 1520 more that are in the planning stages underway. So the research isn't stopping. And actually, because of my devotion to advancing the research on hydrogen therapy, the Dr. LeBaron from the Molecular Hydrogen Institute just invited me and I accepted. Two are in press at about to publish and 1520 more that are in.

The smartest guy I've ever spoken to about hydrogen spin.

Planning stages underway, so the research isn't stopping. And actually, because of my devotion to advancing the research on hydrogen therapy, the Dr. LeBaron from the Molecular Hydrogen near beanie. If we're going to go into, say, the biochemistry of hydrogen, he is the top in the world. He understands, you know, the biochemistry of what hydrogen does in the bottle better than anyone.

Where.

The only thing I'd say that I have an advantage of him on is I have a better memory and I've read more papers.

Yeah.

Than him.

So it's not a contest. Sorry, Tyler.

No, no, no. But I mean, institute just invited me and I accepted to be smartest guy.

I've ever spoken to about hydrogen. I mean, that guy will spin your beanie.

If we're going to go into, say, the. The biochemistry of hydrogen, he is the top in the world. World. He understands, you know, the biochemistry of what hydrogen does in the bottom. He's exponentially more knowledgeable than me in the biochemistry than anyone. Where the only thing I'd say that I have an advantage of him on is I have a better memory, like, exponentially. Right. So I'm taking a sliver here. But he. He's invited me to be the first chairman of the. The Hydrogen Research Committee under the mhi. So it's a volunteer position. And basically what I'll be doing is I'll be working with the ma and I've read more papers than him, so.

It'S not a contest. Sorry, Tyler.

No, no, no, but I mean, he's exponentially more knowledgeable than me in the biochemistry, like, exponentially. Right. So I'm taking a sliver here, but he's invited me to be the first chair in working with the public in industry. So Dr. LeBaron has hired another PhD, a Dr. Grace Russell from the UK, who's published a lot of research on hydrogen. And personally she's going to be helping research teams fill in NIH grants to get more funding for hydrogen research in the United States. And I'm going to be working with the public in industry to, to get more funding to fund this research in addition to supplement the NIH grant and also to do outreach with the universities. Because that, that was one of the first things I did. I emailed, like I said, every first and corresponding author on every study that I could find. So we're going to be doing that and saying, hey, this is where the evidence is. We can help these NIH grants, we can connect with industry to get future like, further funding. And then at the end of the day, once we get partners that have all agreed, Dr. LeBaron and I are going to review the protocols to make sure that the targets make sense, the methodology makes sense, the, the dosing makes sense.

This is amazing. I mean, I, you know, first of all, I think it's an, it's an, it's an area that's vastly understudied. And I think it's also because of the trouble that industry has with, you know, patent protection and copyright protection, trademark protection around this, you know, element which you've, you've patented, but around this element and its impact on physiology. I want to bring this down to a practical standpoint, like some actionable steps, steps that people that are watching this podcast might, might take away. How do they incorporate hydrogen gas into their daily routine? And why would they want to do that? And what can they expect in terms of absorption for their vitamins, minerals, amino acids, nutrients, gut health.

I think we should touch on a few areas. We can touch on metabolic, the anti aging aspect.

You know, they estimate as high as 80% of Americans have some form of metabolic syndrome.

And we've reversed metabolic syndrome, you know, in a double blind placebo controlled trial with 60 people over six months.

By the way, I'm going to link all these studies into the show. Notes.

I think it was 21 of 23 measured outcomes. We had a significant clinical and statistically significant impact just by adding H2 tabs to three H2 tabs a day in 12 ounces of water in these people, middle aged and older with cost you.

Less than three bucks.

Yeah, so we, we reverse metabolic syndrome. We, we've shown weight loss in weight Loss or improved body comp in. I think it's six studies now.

Now how would the gas improve body composition or weight loss?

So it could improve muscle mass by improving exercise recovery and energy output and everything like that. And we're actually finding some cool research. Some of this is not published yet, but I'm an author on some of it. I'll touch on it briefly. But we're regulating appetite.

GLP1.

GLP1. So we do have a study in mice under peer review right now that we regulated GLP1, we had an effect and we have a clinical study. 12 week, I think was NF40, 40 participant double blind placebo control in obese metabolically impaired people where we increased GLP1. Right. Wow. In addition, we regulated ghrelin already in a clinical, a trial on overweight people. And, and ghrelin is often called in pop culture like the, the, the hunger hormone. Yeah, but it actually has a lot of other roles. It regulates our insulin response, glucose homeostasis, it has a lot of neuroprotective effects. And what is poorly understood by the general population and even some physicians is that we actually want a peak and valley of ghrelin. So we want ghrelin to be very high when we're on an empty stomach and crash to nothing.

Right.

And in obese people it becomes impaired. So there's no peaks and valleys, it's just kind of in the middle all the time, which is why they're always snacking. They're never really hungry.

But hungry.

Yeah, and, and hungry. But also they're never really as hungry as a healthy person. They're just kind of hungry and snacky all the time. So we actually show to restore that fasting peak in valley. And we're working on some more research in there and we, we had another study where we improved and modulated the, the brain chemistry involved in satiety.

Right.

So there, there's some interesting stuff there. We're actually planning several other large, you know, clinical trials on metabolic outcomes with hydrogen. Some of them are currently enrolling, others are in the planning stages set to kick off in March. We're doing two of them in Serbia, one in Russia and one in Australia.

To say that right now molecular hydrogen, hydrogen gas has a positive effect on metabolism. And when we say metabolism, so we throw that word around a lot. You know, a metabolic syndrome is a complex of a bunch of different variables that probably the most impactful would be insulin resistance. You know, that is the root of a lot of evils. But also, you know, elevated Triglycerides, you know, hypertriglyceridemia, hypertension, abdominal fat, elevated cholesterol, and, and restoring homeostasis and restoring the, the gut barrier, that, that single cell barrier that protects our inside world from our outside world. You know, if I had a penny for every ailment that was a byproduct of gut dysbiosis, I would be a very wealthy man. And I have in the last 10 years become very interested and fascinated by ways that we can properly heal and seal and restore function to the gut. Because it's the genesis of a lot of autoimmune, if not all autoimmune disease. It's the genesis of a lot of pro inflammatory conditions, not the least of which is elevated C reactive protein. They're just so many downsides to not having a properly regulated gut. And, and very often it's not just a matter of taking probiotics or even in some cases eating, you know, switching your diet to eat the right foods. Because if you've wiped these bacteria out, you, you need to restore the gas that the bacteria that are now gone would have otherwise produced.

That's very important because there are certain bacteria that can come back within a few days or a week. There's others that might take months or years. And there's bacteria strains that we've identified by looking at like tribal peoples that we've discovered in the Amazon or South Asia, where could be generational. Right. They might never come back once we've lost them. Now in that same study where we regulate ghrelin, we reduce calprotectin, so a marker of inflammation in the stomach, and we improved a couple of short chain fatty acids, propionic and butyric acid acid. Oh, wow. Right. So, okay, there's some definite gut links. And actually hydrogen water uniquely gets into the gut a lot better than inhalation obviously is going to your lungs. So that's what I was mentioning. Hydrogen water and hydrogen inhalation have different pharmacokinetics. They elevate different tissues in different capacities. So hydrogen water interacts with the gut better. It gets to the liver at a higher concentration and some of the internal organs, which is why it's perhaps better for a lot of these metabolic conditions.

Yeah.

Whereas inhalation, it's getting obviously to your lungs better, it's getting to your muscles at a higher amount than drinking hydrogen water. So a lot of musculoskeletal issues. Maybe inhalation will be better for athletes. Maybe you want to do both.

And it's conditions not the least of which is elevated C reactive protein. There's just so many downsides to not having a properly regulated gut. And very often it's not just, just a matter of taking probiotics or even in some cases eating, you know, switching your diet to eat the right foods, because if you wipe these bacteria out, you need to restore the gap.

Both are getting to the brain inhalation a little bit higher than hydrogen water. But hydrogen water also has the, the gut brain connection. It's improving your gut, so it's improving your brain. So I think the future we're going to be doing several modalities of hydrogen therapy. People are going to be doing drinking high concentration hydrogen water, doing inhalation in a proper and safe way, bathing in hydrogen water. You know, there's hydrogen saline, like IVs, right. For purposes in the hospital.

So I, you know, I'm interested about how, how could somebody incorporate these, these H2 tabs, which is the elemental magnesium that effervesces into hydrogen gas. How does someone that's watching this podcast that's interested in getting hydrogen gas into their daily routine maybe doesn't have the money for, you know, a hydrogen bottle, you know, what's the dosage? How do they take it?

So our studies range from one to, well, five tablets a day, but most of them one to three tablets a day at various volumes of water.

So I'm one of like five to eight. Just so, you know, I, I take.

I take five personally, but I've got.

That the bacteria that are now gone would have otherwise produced.

That's very important because there are certain bacteria that can come back within a few days or a week. There's others that might take months or years. And there's bacteria strains that we've identified by looking at like tribal peoples that we've discovered in the Amazon or South Asia where could be generational. Right. They might never come back once we've lost them. Now in that same study where we regulate ghrelin, we reduce calprotectin, so a marker of inflammation in the stomach. And we improved a couple of short chain fatty acids, propionic and butyric acid acid. Oh, wow. Right. So, okay, there's some definite gut links. And actually hydrogen water uniquely gets into the gut a lot better than inhalation, obviously is going to your lungs. So that's what I was mentioning. Hydrogen water and hydrogen inhalation have different pharmacokinetics. They elevate different tissues in different capacities. So hydrogen water interacts with the gut better. It gets to the liver at a higher concentration and some of the internal organs, brains, which is why it's perhaps a lot of damage. Yeah. So first thing on an empty stomach.

Okay.

Is important. So the, right, the, the perfect volume of water is different for every person because it's the volume that you can chug, drink rapidly.

Right. So at a room temperature.

So because hydrogen is this stress like H2, is this stress like exercise, you don't want to be sipping on it all day long.

Right. That would be like you want to get the dosage in.

You want a high dose intermittently because you want the stress and the.

So let's say 750 milliliters, like a, you know, mountain valley spring water.

Yeah. You can drop a couple of tablets in there.

I, I personally drink to effervesce. And then you want.

So exactly, exactly. I do a liter.

Right.

But most people can't chug a liter. So most of our research on athletes uses half a liter or 16.8 ounces. Our research on meta metabolically impaired middle aged people usually uses about 12 ounces, 333 times a day. And on the elderly we used a cup. So we use 250ml or 8oz. Better for a lot of these metabolic conditions.

Yeah.

Whereas inhalation, it's getting obviously to your lungs better, it's getting to your muscles at a higher amount than drinking hydrogen water. So a lot of musculoskeletal issues. Maybe inhalation will be better for athletes. Maybe you want to do both. And it's getting both are getting to the brain inhalation a little bit higher than hydrogen watches.

Because the point is any amount helps. But, but for somebody to say, okay, I'm going to put this into my daily routine. I'm going to take a room temperature glass bottle of water, drop a tablet or two in it and then chug.

It as fast as you can. And it's really important you want to drink it on an empty stomach. Right. So a lot of companies in hydrogen water don't actually talk about this because they don't understand it very well. But one, say you are producing a bit of hydrogen from consuming fiber. You don't want to be competing with that. That.

Right, right.

You want that separately. But two, one of my patents involves I've turned hydrogen water and various fibers into dense foams and gels. It stabilizes. So if you eat it at a time where you've just had some fiber, you might not be getting rapid uptake into your system which can affect the therapeutic value. So what we're learning right now in the hydrogen research, we haven't found a plateau yet. Right. For most indications. So some indications. But hydrogen water also has the, the gut brain connection. It's improving your gut so it's improving your brain. So I think the future we're going to be doing we need vastly higher amounts of hydrogen that than we can reasonably several modalities of hydrogen therapy people are going to be doing drinking, intense.

Exercise, severe metabolic syndrome.

Liver health. We need 10 times more exercise to start seeing an effect. So dose and concentration is critically important. You want to get the dosing right to have a high concentration hydrogen water doing inhalation in a proper and safe way. Bathing and hydrogen want better effect right on the body.

But for the average person that's listening to this podcast, it says one to three times. One to three times.

One to 3 times a day. Day. The most water that you can comfortably chug down in one to three gulps, you know, within 15 to 30 seconds and on an empty stomach. Sometimes I like is in the morning or right before you exercise.

Yeah, you know that's what I do.

Or middle, middle of the afternoon or right before dinner. Like you can eat five, ten minutes after you drink the hydrogen water. Just don't drink it after you eat.

Yeah. And, and you know what I find is that if I do the hydrogen first, I really don't caffeine. I, I'm just, you know, I'm, I'm, I'm more wide awake, more focused, more clear. And then I, I, I mix it with the, an amino acid product. You know that's just essential amino acids and, and then I just go in and, and hit the gym and I'm always looking for ways that we can kind of bio stack things. Take something like you know the fluid that's going to hydrate you and make it anti inflammatory by water.

You know there, there's hydrogen saline like IVs. Right. For purposes in the hospital.

So I you know I'm interested about how, how could somebody incorporate these the lowering its orp, which it clearly does. But then also there must be some effect on, on the lactate threshold because I notice that if I do these H2 tabs which is the elemental magnesium that effervesces into hydrogen gas. How does someone what I've affectionately called hydrogen bomb. Well I'll put five of these in a you know in about 700 that's watching this podcast that's interested in getting hydrogen gas into their daily routine. Maybe doesn't 50mls and when it effervesces, whack it back. I can absolutely tell that my workouts can be more intense with less muscle burn.

A hundred percent. And actually there's a systematic review and meta analysis showing an anti fatigue effect with hydrogen water. And we have a couple really cool studies that I know I briefly told you about that are in press right now on the two tabs.

Yeah, right.

Showing remarkable benefits.

Okay.

So in the first, and they were in completely different study populations.

Wow.

Right. So the first one was a shorter term study. I think it was four weeks. It was in Olympic athletes and it was done in Russia and they were taking two tablets in 16.8 ounces or 500 milliliters a day, you know, before and after training. And we improved body composition in these Olympic, even Olympic athletes, which was incredible.

But we also have the money for, you know, a hydrogen bottle, you know, what's the dosage, how do they take it?

So our studies range from one to, well, five tablets a day, but most of them one to three tablets a day and improve their peak torque on leg extension.

Wow.

At the end of the trial and more significantly after they'd exercised and warmed up, showing the anti fatigue effect.

Well, so they took it during exercise.

Right before and right after. Right before and right after various volumes of water.

So you want like five to eight.

Just, you know, I, I take, I take five personally, but I've got, and we have another trial in, in the opposite study population. This was a 50 plus group and I was actually just, I was one of the authors on, on both of these, but I, I was just in Milan, Italy at Aspen. A lot of damage. Yeah. So first thing, on an empty stomach.

Okay.

At a conference presenting this study, you know, with the corresponding author. And so in these 50 plus people who had no adult experience with exercise, they were very out of shape. So much so that they were starting doctor Guided exercise protocols to try and turn their lives around.

Huge deconditioned population right now.

Exactly. And this was, I off memory. I think it was six, six weeks. Six or eight weeks, I can't, I can't quite remember. But it was again, double blind, placebo controlled. And in the placebo group we actually saw some very concerning things. They were borderline rhaptomyolysis. So the stress from the exercise dysregulated their cortisol response. It increased, is important. So the, right, the, the perfect volume of water is different for every person because it's the volume that you could myoglobin by 1100%. Right. So 11 can chug drink rapidly.

Right. At a room temperature.

So because hydrogen is this stress times, it increased creatine kinase by like 7 times 700. They had seriousness.

That's where they get to kidney issues. With rhabdo.

Exactly. Oh. And with the hydrogen group. And we actually, we saw this too, in the, the Olympians. Like H2. Is this stress, like exercise. You don't want to be sipping on it all day long.

Right. That would be like you want to get the dosage in.

You want a high dose intermittently because you want the stress didn't raise a creatine kinase at all. No. No significant rise. So we had no significant rise in creatine kinase or myoglobin. We regulated the cortisol response. We improved DHEA and free testosterone.

Wow.

And we increased improved sleep outcomes, specifically in females. So we're actually seeing a, a potential gender response.

Is going to love you, man.

There's a few studies now, both in press and one published, where we had stronger results in females and males.

Yeah.

So it could be mediated by estrogen. We're still trying to figure this out.

Yeah.

But.

Well, Alex, I want, I want to follow this research that you're doing. I'm going to put links to all of, in the study notes to all of the research you published so far and links to other research on hydrogen gas and, and the H2 tabs, this elemental magnesium. I'll even put some information on how people can find the H2 tabs if they're interested in adding these. What I like is that now, you know, we're under a dollar a day for people to incorporate hydrogen. So let's say 750 milliliters, like a, you know, mountain valley spring water.

Yeah. You can drop a couple of tablets in there.

I, I personally drink to efferves and then gas into their, into their lifestyle instead of, you know, several hundred dollars and to cons.

So exact. Exactly. I do a, a liter.

Right.

But, Right, because all machines start breaking down over time, but the tablets, you're getting this high dose every time.

Yeah.

Right. Unless you have a lab to test the machine, you don't know when it starts to deteriorate.

Right. But with those tablets, you get getting a safe, consistent dose every time.

Most people can't chug a liter. So most of our research on athletes uses half a liter.

And in fact, I, I would love to even do another podcast on women's health because I, I, I've noticed again, anecdotally, when my wife has really bad menstrual cramps that it seems to mitigate the intensity of, of those cramps too. So I love to go down the rabbit hole with you on that.

We're, we're diving deeper. Like we actually have a few studies underway that are separating gender to dive deeper into these gender based responses. And we're starting, I've just signed off on the protocol. We're starting the very first responder study on, on hydrogen, you know, looking at people's endogenous breath hydrogen production over some time to establish the difference in effect of people with low breath hydrogen versus high breath hydrogen. So we can really start narrowing in on the research.

That's amazing, man.

Well, I end every 16.8 ounces. Our research on metabolically impaired middle aged people usually uses about 12 ounces 333 times a day.

Podcast by asking all my guests the same question and there's no right or wrong answer to this.

And on the elderly we used a cup, so we used 250 milliliters or 8 ounces.

Because the point is any amount helps, but for so many, but it is. What does it mean to you to be an ultimate human?

I think just constantly the pursuit to improve. Right. Not perfection. Right. It's just growing and learning. And I think that a philosophy behind maintaining is accepting that you're going to respond to things after it's broken. That's what it implies. So the only way we can stay satisfied is by always trying to move forward. So my philosophy in life is, is always forward.

Right.

You know, and forward in as many ways as you can. You know, trying to improve your health, trying to improve your purpose, your, your business, your, your family life. Right, Everything. Just always be trying to make small improvements. Most people want to say with money, go to bed poor and wake up rich without having to do any work. And you know, it's an age old saying, but Rome wasn't built in a day day. And the only way we can continue moving forward and achieve what we dream.

To achieve, say, okay, I'm going to put this into my daily routine. I'm going to take a room temperature glass bottle of water, drop a tablet or two in it and then chug.

It as fast as you can achieve is by taking one step at a time.

That's awesome.

One small improvement.

Yeah, one small improvement.

And it's really important you want to drink it on an empty stomach. Right? So a lot of companies in hydrogen water don't actually talk, man.

I, I really appreciate you coming on. I, I guys, I hope that this has given you the depth that you need to maybe incorporate hydrogen gas into your, into your daily routine about this.

Because they don't understand it very well.

But one say it's one of those I think must have biohacks that's affordable for the, for the masses. I'm going to stay very close to the research on hydrogen gas, hydrogen water, hydrogen inhalation, because I'm absolutely fascinated by it. I will link all this of of Alex's studies in the study notes below, as well as a link to some other studies that are not Alex's, but will give you further background if you really want to go down the hydrogen rabbit hole. And as always, until next time, that's just science.

You are producing a bit of hydrogen from consuming fiber. You don't want to be competing with that.

Right? Right.

You want that separately. But two, one of my patents involves I've turned hydrogen water and various fibers into dense foams and gels. It stabilizes. So if you eat it at a time where you've just had some fiber, you might not be getting rapid uptake into your system, which can affect the therapeutic value. So what we're learning right now in the hydrogen research, we haven't found a plateau yet. Right. For most indications. So some indications we need need vastly higher amounts of hydrogen that than we.

Can reasonably reasonably intense exercise, severe metabolic syndrome.

Liver health. We need 10 times more exercise to start seeing an effect. So dose and concentration is critically important. You want to get the dosing right to have a better effect right on the body.

But for the average person that's listening to this podcast, it says one to.

Three times, one to three.