Dr. Josh Axe: On Mitochondrial Health, Peptide Therapy and Parasite Infections | TUH #205

The Bible, to me is actually the greatest health book ever written. And it gets into so many details about toxicity and cleansing and healing.

If something's been around for 5,000 years, it's probably because it works.

There are literally almost 100,000 people in Japan over 100 years old. Their form of medicine over there is a type of Chinese medicine, which is called campo, combined with more of the functional medicine that we are aware of today.

We've lost the notion that connection is medicine, that nature is medicine, and that food is his medicine. And before he had medicine, that was our medicine.

But I do think we want to do everything we can to both practice these traditional ideas and these more cutting edge concepts that modern day science has brought us.

I think when you look at the big data, there's no dogmatic diet, that extended life. It was absolutely the absence of processed foods, but also the sense of community and purpose.

The number one factor for longevity is having a great support of family and friends around you.

When someone starts starting on this journey and they want to make basic lifestyle shifts, how important is diet? How important is connection?

When we are prioritizing what makes people well again at the very, very top, even ahead of diet, is. Ultimate.

Hey, guys. Welcome back to the Ultimate Human Podcast. I'm your host, Gary Braca, where we go down the road of everything, anti aging, biohacking, longevity, and everything in between. And this is a special episode all the way from London, England. And we're both jet lag, so maybe.

We should talk about jet lag. But yeah, there you go.

I think he got in after a red eye flight. I got in at about 2:00 clock this morning. And we're bringing the episode to you live. One of my very, very good friends, fellow chiropractor, and just an incredibly spiritual, passionate, driven human being. I know you know who this gentleman is. I'm really, really excited to have you back on the Ultimate Human podcast. Welcome, Dr. Axe.

Gary, thanks for having me. Excited to be here.

Yeah, me too, man. We've done challenges together and water fasting challenges. And, you know, we've done podcasts and we've done podcast swaps. And I'm. I'm just so. And I believe my audience is too, just so aligned with your philosophy in more of what God gave us, less of what man makes us. Yeah. And I think as a broad theme that would probably describe your philosophy and, and your approach.

Yeah. 100. You know, I think, I think one thing that's really important for people to balance out, and this is one thing I really appreciate about you is, you know, we need to pay attention to the science and the studies and what they're saying. But you also have to, in your other hand, hold this balance of what does ancient wisdom say? What does the Bible say? What does traditional Chinese medicine say? You know, I read a study about studies recently, and it's a study about studies. That's right.

I think I read this one too.

Yeah, over 50% of studies that are put out are false, essentially in terms of what their findings are. And there are a lot of reasons for that. One is the bias of pharmaceutical companies and them manipulating the study to get what they want. Another thing is people cherry picking data, only giving you the parts that you want to see. The other thing is not getting into the details enough. For instance, there are studies showing red meat is bad for you. What type of red meat are you talking about? Grass fed, organic pasture, raised beef? Are you talking about feedlot, GMO eating, pesticides, never out in the sun, cattle? So overall, I think that if people want to get the best results and gain the greatest amount of wisdom, you need to really balance this sort of what does traditional wisdom say with what does the science say? And the Bible, to me is actually the greatest health book ever written. There is kind of, I think it's.

The greatest business book ever written, the.

Greatest business book, greatest lifebook. And it gets into so many details about regenerative farming, about if you have mold, what do you do about that?

Oh, I want to go down there.

Fork and shelf and all in toxicity and cleansing and healing. So. So there's a lot of amazing content in there. So that's definitely become a, you know, continue to be a passion of mine, is teaching people, hey, what does the Bible say in some of these traditional forms of medicine along with what is the science? And I know we both love a combination of all those things.

I totally agree. You know, what's interesting is if you look at where the science has led us. I mean, first of all, if something's been around for 5,000 years, let's just take acupuncture, for example, or ayurvedic medicine, which was, as I know it, to be the oldest form of medicine that we know of. And it was based largely on observation. Let me look at your eyes, let me look at your tongue, let me feel your body temperature. You know, based on observation. If something's been around for 5,000 years, it's probably because it works. Yeah, you know, not much stuff that doesn't work sticks around for 5,000 years.

That's right.

And. And you know, we can also follow big data too. Like we've never done a peer reviewed, randomized placebo controlled clinical trial on parachutes.

Right.

But I would not jump out of an airplane without one.

Right, exactly.

Who was in that control group? Right.

Yeah, yeah.

You're gonna line up over here. We're gonna give you the empty backpack. Can you get that? But we have data that proves that they work and we have large data.

Well, and I think looking at the big picture is important. For example, what you're sharing. You know, a two months ago, the recent data came out on the country with the longest lifespan and the greatest amount of longevity. Think about this. Japan right now has 95,000 centurions.

95,000.

95,000. So there are literally almost 100,000 people in Japan over 100 years old.

So.

And they rank either 1 or 2 in overall health and longevity. The United states ranks around 70 according to the most recent data. So who should we be listening to? What should we be following? What's really interesting about Japan is their form of medicine. Over there is a type of Chinese medicine which is called campo, combined with more of the functional medicine that we are aware of today. And that's a big reason why their lifespan is so long. So listen, if you want to live long, be healthy, heal disease, don't follow what a lot of the conventional medicine is doing in the United States. Instead, what are the people of Japan doing on a regular basis in order to stay well? And so that's part of that big picture perspective you're talking.

And what kinds of things are they doing? I mean, can you be a little more specific? I mean, what is, what is compo. I've heard of Tai Chi.

Yeah.

But I assume that it's, it's, it's some form of movement. It's.

Well, it's actually their form of Chinese medicine. And so what they do is they. They'll look at the body and they'll do diagnosis based on looking at your tongue is a really major indicator.

Yeah.

And then they'll also run blood work from the western side. But again, campo. It's based on what they call the five elements of Chinese medicine. But rather than looking at all your organ systems, they look at five organ systems. How they work together, how they impact each other, and they use that for healing people. And then their protocols tend to be the most lifestyle based of any form of medicine. So if you're sick with heart disease, probably the first thing they're going to do is recommend you go and do something called forest bathing, or go out and do Tai chi or start taking a two hour lunch break. I mean, we're talking about major lifestyle shifts.

Wow.

And then after that they're going to recommend some dietary protocols. I mean, we know that they're the greatest consumer, I think per population of, along with China, of green tea. They do a lot of purple sweet potatoes over there. They do a lot, a lot of wild caught fish and seafood. They do a lot of seaweed. So their diet is incredibly nutrient dense. But overall, again, I will say I think they're, they're. When I looked at their prescriptions and what they recommend the most, we're talking about just bigger lifestyle adjustments. You know, in the United States and you've experienced this as you work with clients and when we're working with people, they will schedule something from the moment they wake up till the second they crash at night. I think about all the moms out there, all the dads who are spending time like soccer practice, full time work, serving in play. I mean, so we are so busy and this puts us in this sort of fight or flight state.

Right.

I remember going on a mission trip to China and it was a very similar thing in Japan to where there was there. There was just a more of a cadence of rest and get refreshed. And during lunch one day, everyone came out and started doing Tai chi in the streets after eating lunch and just moving for 30 minutes.

And that was just a thing that.

They, that was just the thing they did in the city we were in. Like the whole community came out and did this as part of their lunch break.

That's so cool, man. You know, I think when you look at the big data too, you know, Blue zones, longevity studies, there's no dogmatic diet that drives longevity. In other words, it wasn't carnivore or just keto or just paleo or pescatarian or vegan or vegetarian. You know, it wasn't the Atkins diet that extended life. It was absolutely the absence of processed foods. I mean, there are no longevity or blue zones that have highly processed foods. So we can, we can take something from that. But also the sense of community and purpose.

Yeah.

Which I found pretty fascinating when I was, you know, researching the blue zones because we, we've lost the notion that connection is medicine, that nature is medicine and that food is medicine. And before he had medicine, that was our medicine.

That's right.

And, and because it's still prolonging life and beating the statistics, we, we, we want to Go more conventional towards chemicals, synthetics, pharmaceuticals. You know, I. I will sometimes when I. When I do stage talks, I'll put up a crazy chart of your methylation. Right?

Yeah.

And it's. It's meant to be overwhelming and confusing because there's lines and charts going everywhere. Tryptophan becomes, you know, serotonin and all this. You know, there's all this crazy stuff going on. And what's fascinating is if you blow that chart up, 90% of the audience will recognize the name of every nutrient in there. It's vitamins, it's minerals, it's amino acids, it's. It's all the things that drive our cellular biology.

Yeah.

And somehow we think that we can replace that absence with, you know, what. What man makes us.

Yeah.

So, you know, back. Back to the. The longevity. I mean, I know that you have a background as a chiropractor, acupuncturist, but. And you are, I would say, very Eastern philosophy in the way that you approach things and treating the whole organism. I think one of the challenges we have in our modern medical system is we. I think of it like the hub of a wheel with all of these spokes, and as soon as something goes wrong, we're out chasing these spokes sort of away from the problem.

Yeah.

I think maybe the Maha movement is maybe the first time in our modern history where we're actually trying to ask the questions about what is the root cause of autism? Why do we have skyrocketing rates of obesity, multiple chronic disease in this. In a single biome? When I actually was a mortality researcher, we lead the world in not just chronic disease, but multiple chronic disease processes in the same body.

Yeah.

It's super not uncommon for somebody to have one or two autoimmune disorders. Also have gut dysbiosis, advanced cardiovascular disease, and type 2 diabetes. I mean, these massive. So when. When someone's starting on this journey and they're. They want to make basic lifestyle shifts, I mean, and then I want to get into some of the details. I want to go down the mold bandwagon with you. I want to go down the autoimmune bandwagon with you. How important is diet? How important is mobility? How important is connection? How important is returning to nature? You actually mentioned forest bathing.

Yeah.

I assume it's what it sounds like.

It is. It is, yeah.

Can you talk a little bit about that?

Yeah, yeah. So. So. Well, first off, I think when you're. When we are prioritizing what makes people sick and what makes people well, again, at the very, very top, even ahead of diet, is this deep. It's personal connection. It's your emotional health, your mental health, your spiritual health, your connection with God, your connection with others. I mean, the Bible alludes this to love God, love your neighbor. And then there are other areas where it says love the planet. Right. So I think having these deep intimate relationships with God, with others, with the planet, that philosophically and in reality is going to lead to the greatest level of health. And this is something a lot of people want to skip over. I know and care of tens of thousands of patients in my lifetime. One of the greatest things I see making people sick today is they'll have had childhood trauma and they will not have dealt with it. And so they will have feelings of shame, guilt, regret that sort of live in the. And a lot of times they'll take these emotions or memories and they'll sort of stuff them down deep because they're painful. But unless you fully address them, it's sort of this reoccurring pain that's happening over and over and over again. That's just an example of one thing. But I think going and addressing and focusing on dealing with childhood trauma, growing.

Can we drill into that a little bit? Like, how do you deal with childhood trauma?

Yeah, so what I. And I'll share this for myself. And this is a more. A less traumatic event, but still somewhat traumatic for me. So when I was in high school, I had a teacher say, josh, would you stay after class? This is my English teacher, name is Ms. Noble. And I stayed after. And she said, josh, what do you want to do after high school? And I said, I want to be a doctor. And the reason is, Gary. The year before, my mom had just gone through breast cancer, lost all of her hair, mastectomy, rounds and rounds of chemo. So when I saw my mom suffering like that, I said, I want to help people like my mom. I remember even just praying, God, like, use me to help people like my mom. It really set me on this path to.

You felt so helpless.

Yeah, to natural health. And so I remember praying that. And so I told her, I said, I want to be a doctor. And Gary, she looked at me and she laughed and she said, listen, Josh, you'll never be a doctor with your gpa. She said, right now you're getting a D minus in my class. I want you to stay after because you got an F on this paper. She goes, you need to try harder. You'll be lucky to graduate high school.

She needs to read how to win friends and influence people.

That's right. I mean, it was.

Kept a few chapters.

It was really. It was really, really brutal. And then two weeks later, my mom brought me to see an md, a family doctor. And he. And he talked about me like I wasn't in the room. And he said, listen, your son has adhd. It's really severe. Here's Ritalin. And, you know, he's got this. It's a learning disability. So at the time, like, I kept hearing in my head, oh, my God, I've got a. I've got a disability. I can't. Like, I'm like, medically not smart.

Yeah.

So in high school, I just kind of stopped trying. I barely graduated high school with, like. I mean, literally, like a 2.0 GPA. I mean, very, very low. Applied to a bunch of colleges, didn't get into most. And finally I got into one. Here's their letter. It was like, you're not in, but if you come and take summer school and you average above a three. I mean, like, that's me summing it up. But that's essentially what it said at the beginning. Like, you're not in, but if you come and take summer school, average above a 3.0, we'll let you in. And I thought, okay, I'm going to do this. So I grew up in Ohio, went to. It was University of Kentucky, first time they'd ever done this. Went and took summer school. And the first class I had was English 101. First big assignment was a paper, turned it in, felt good about it. Three days later, the teacher says to me, Your name is Ms. Williams. Josh, would you stay after class? And I said, yeah. And my stomach sank. I thought, I'll know this again. And she goes, hey, what's your major? And I said, I haven't chosen one. Ms. Williams. She said, well, I think you should consider being an English major, journalism major, because you're really talented writer. There's 40 came to the class. You got the highest grade, great job. And Gary, I walked out of there and it literally transformed my life. Like, I had one memory of. With a teacher and her say one thing to me, and it literally destroyed me for four years. I mean, I was so. I had such a hard time learning. I mean, I just, again, barely getting through high school. And then the teacher, one teacher said something positive to me in that way, and it radically changed my life. And everybody listening to this has probably had somebody do that. They've had somebody say something negative or somebody say something Positive. And it was a turning point in their life. And that was true for me. And so now it was a little bit of a process of me continuing to say, hey, you're smart, you can do well. And what's crazy is then I went and got my doctorate, got a 3.1 GPA. I went to John Hopkins, graduated with a 3.9 GPA from there. And I just share that to say I was a kid that barely got through high school. But the power of words and the power of having the right type of people around you, the right community, the right family. One of the studies I've heard you quote before, which is such a brilliant study, is the Harvard study. It's almost 90 years now. The number one factor for longevity is having a great support of family and friends around you.

So true.

And that is number one. Those things are number one. So when it comes to trauma, here's practically what I have patients do. Number one, let's address the memories. Here's what I have them do. First, I want you to just write for a while. Write down what are things that still bother you today that happened in the past. Write down all those memories.

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And is there. Are there certain things that bring up guilt, shame, just discontent, hurt? Okay, write down what those things are. Okay, now that you've written those things down, I want you to do something. And this is hard for some. Depending upon the trauma, write down how that has been used for good, for life. Or you can use that for good, that trauma. And I want you to see it in a totally different light, where you're no longer the victim, you're the hero. You're now the hero of the story. And God is going to be able to use this for good in your life, to help others. You know what's crazy? So my mom had cancer. She will tell you today she's glad she had cancer. Twice because she'll tell you that she now has a better relationship with my dad. She has learned to cherish every single day. It is like God has used it for good in her life. And so I think that if you can change that perspective and the other thing would be go through a practice of forgiveness, if somebody has hurt you, forgive them. We know that living with unforgiveness is like you drinking poison. It's not hurting them, it's hurting you more. So, so practice unforgiveness. And then the other thing is, then develop a practice of building your identity and your purpose in life. And the more virtuous or the greater thing you tie it to, the more fulfillment you have in life. And that's why God and the Christian faith is so powerful, is that you're tying yourself to the greatest person that's ever lived in Jesus. And it gives you a sense of his child, you're his heir, you have a calling on your life now. And so it gives you a sense of identity and purpose like you've never had before. So I think. And then my mom also meditated on Bible verses daily and just did things for growing herself. And so I think that those are some of the things people can do to help heal and overcome everything from childhood trauma to negative emotions they might be experiencing.

Yeah, because I think, you know, I had this discussion on a podcast actually earlier today, and we were talking about if we put, let's say 50 of the leading experts in longevity, anti aging, bio optimization, wellness, whatever you want to call it, functional medicine in a room, what one thing, what one theory on aging do, do, do I think they would all agree on. And I was like, oof. I said likely the theory of immuno fatigue, which is a slow, progressive, overwhelming of the immune system. You know, if you look at when we're infants, the amount of time that the immune system spends polic ourselves versus protecting us from, you know, parasites, viruses, pathogens, glyphosate, BPAs. Yeah, you know, poof as all of these things. And, and once we make it into adulthood, our immune system seems to be really distracted because of all the, I'll just call them micro poisons, microtoxins we're putting in. Would you agree with that?

I would say that's incredibly high on the list. You know, it's. What's happened today is our body should be constantly adapting, but it should be adapting to local environmental stressors that then act as a form of hormesis that make us stronger. And we don't get much of this today. If you're eating foods out of your local garden, carrots and beets, and they have these types of microbes on them or local honey and pollen, it's actually a natural form of immunization. You are getting micro doses on a regular basis. Your body's building up, tolerance, getting stronger. Now it has certain types of gut bacteria and enzymes your body will create to break down and better digest the food, bolster your immune system. So all that's happening, well, what's happening today is we're spending such little time outside and such little time getting these foods that are in our local area. Instead, we're getting to your point. Glyphosate, heavy metals, environmental toxins, and our body is dealing with those and those take, those are two different types of immune systems. The one type of immune system is really going to be strengthening to your overall long term immunity. To your point, the other one is going to cause one system to overactivate and it's going to increase your risk of issues like autoimmune disease. Probably as the, at the top of the list, things like cancer.

You know, what's fascinating to me is that as a category of disease, autoimmune in 85% of the cases is idiopathic. It's of unknown origin.

Yeah.

So, you know, most people when they're told they have an autoimmune disease, that it, you know, they're basically told, you woke up one day and your immune system went haywire. It's attacking your colon. You have Crohn's. Oh, it's, it's after the lacrimal gland in the eye. You have chagrins. It's now attacking the thyroid. You have Hashimoto's, it's, you know, the myelin sheath. You have multiple sclerosis. But, but when you try to take that a step further and ask your doctor, well, what caused my immune system to go haywire? Well, we don't know, you know, just luck of the draw, it happens or God forbid, they say it's, you know, hereditary, it's familial. So, you know, that while we don't know the genesis of all autoimmune, I, I would argue that if you eliminated some of the big four mold, mycotoxins, heavy metals, parasites, viruses, you would dramatically narrow down this idiopathic portion.

Agreed. You know, let me say though, like, go one step, maybe backwards with this too, in terms of what I think a big cause is, I think that those exposures are, are big. They're A huge part of autoimmune disease. To your point, I think part of the reason though people become more susceptible to those microbes is because of the emotional, spiritual and mental drain people have, like not getting enough sleep or dealing with these constant feelings of shame and regret. So we talked about Kenpo and that's part of that Japanese medicine system that they're using over there. Within that system, they believe that certain emotions tax different organs. So if you're living with shame and guilt from the past, or let's say you have a regret, something's happened in the past and you haven't been able to let go and move on from it, they'll say that is the biggest thing that taxes your immune system, weakens your immune system. German new medicine, if you're familiar with German new medicine, this is a German new medicine is really the psychological component that makes us sick or German new medicine. Yeah. It's based off of, I think, a lot of the ideas of this Kempo and Chinese medicine. But here's an example of what they believe with autoimmune disease. They believe part of autoimmune disease is the fact that your body's attacking itself. And that is due to the fact that, that you are emotionally attacking yourself. And they believe a lot of people with autoimmune disease say things like, you shouldn't have done that. Why did you say that? Negative self talk. Constantly beating themselves up or they are reliving things that maybe where their parents were critical of them. And so they have this thing that's kind of happening where they are literally attacking themselves over and over and over mentally. And sometimes it's in the subconscious and that's a contributor there. And I think what happens then is when you're, when, when you are overly busy, you're not sleeping well enough, all those things are adding up. Mentally, you're in this fight or flight state. Eventually it's like your batteries burn out. We know this. We can talk about mitochondrial health, but those batteries get so depleted that now your body can't deal with all of the infections, the parasites, the mold, the viruses, the long Covid, the, all of those things. And then it just overtakes your immune system, you know, and that, that's, that's part of the process.

Yeah, let's go into the mitochondria because I'd love to talk about that. I mean, you know, I was saying that broad category of immuno fatigue is just a, you know, something that at 30,000ft, the majority of, you know, the great Thinkers would agree on.

Agree.

You don't have a healthy immune system.

Yeah.

You know, you're, you're in for a short ride.

That's right. Well, think about again, how many people have autoimmune disease today? How many people have cancer today? I mean, those two in particular, as much as any, those are caused by exactly what you're in.

The vast majority, autoimmune wise, are in women. And so you, it's very much to what you're saying that it's not that it has a sexual bias, it's that, you know, women, for example, are more likely to have caregiver syndrome. I know this from the mortality space.

That's right.

And caregiver syndrome is a real syndrome where you just constantly put the needs of other people before your own. You know, your kids, your spouse, your career, what have you. And you're constantly just putting yourself further and further in the backseat.

That's so good. You know, as we were talking about these ancient forms of medicine, they believed that the reason why women got breast cancer specifically is you think what the breasts are. They are for nurturing an infant and for sexual arousal. Well, they'll say one of the number reasons why women get breast cancer is they give and they give and they give till they have nothing left. It's over. Nurturing while not being nurtured yourself.

Wow.

Yeah.

So when we talk about, you know, the mitochondria, I mean, as the further I've gotten down the, the, the bandwagon of, of looking at longevity and anti aging, you can't open that discussion without talking about the mitochondria. I mean that, that is the powerhouse, the energy source inside the cell. I think everybody is familiar with the term. It's 10% of her body weight. You've got about 110 trillion of these. I don't know who counted them, but I'll take their word for it. But we have about 110 trillion of these. And I, I still remember in my biology class how like bored I was studying the Krebs cycle and now I've actually gone back and relearned it here.

So funny. Well, yeah, I was on one of your. It's so funny.

I was.

So, so when we were at the health optimization summit in Austin, speaking together, you spoke right before me. And so I, you know, I listened to your, your lecture and I remember, you know, you're putting out, you, you put up methylation, you put up Krebs cycle. And I was laughing because I'm like, it is so funny. That when I was in high school science class, I'm like, you know, I don't want to hear anything about the cycle going back and, you know, doing more research and study. Anyways, I appreciate. Yeah. So.

So how do we care for this little microscopic organelle? Why is it so important?

What.

How is it the genesis of or a driver of disease? How does it help us be more resistant to disease? And how could it be linked to longevity?

Yeah. Yeah. You know, it's interesting. A few years ago, I shouldn't say a few years ago, my first two years in practice. And you work this hard, too. So it's like I was working 60 hours a week, putting in so much time, and I started getting leaky gut, like, loose stools, breakout, like, just. Just these health issues, but especially digestive distress. And I thought, this is crazy. I'm eating perfectly. I'm eating, like, superfood smoothies and salads and. And then I went to see an acupuncturist, and he felt my pulse, looked at my tongue, and he said. He goes, Dr. Axe, your battery is down here. It needs to be here. He kept showing me, like, how much, like, your battery's depleted. And I was like, okay, well, what do I need to do? And basically, here's the biggest thing I did, Gary. Once it hit 5 o', clock, once I ate dinner, I stopped working because I used to get home, and even while I was watching TV and I was on my laptop or my phone, like, doing more work. And he's like, listen, you just have to take. He's like, I want you to take 30 minutes at lunch. And then once five o' clock rolls around, you're done. No more work. I said, okay. I did that. Leaky gut, fixed and healed completely. Wow. From that one change. But it led me to understand this idea that we all have batteries. And part of these batteries in Western medicine we talk about are our mitochondria. And these batteries, our mitochondria, they run every single cell, every tissue, every organ of your body. And if that's depleted, you can't heal. Like, when I'm thinking about the root issues, for most people, it's threefold. And if we're talking about cellular medicine, it's cellular toxicity, cellular deficiency, and cellular energy issues. So we know toxicity issues. We've talked about everything from glyphosate to mold to, you know, I would say even pathogenic infections. Sugar acts as a toxin, so that's destroying our cells. The other thing is, again, just deficiencies. Right. A lot of the things in the methylation cycle, methylfolate, zinc, vitamin D, magnesium, these are critical. But then there's this idea of cellular energy. And in Kenpo, Chinese medicine, Ayurveda, they would call this chi, this is your energy. And that's really tied, that's what mitochondria is today. And this, this ATP, this cellular energy. And so in order to boost that the most, if we're looking at modern science and then ancient science, so modern science, they would say there's this compound in pomegranates and raspberries called allegic acid. If you have a healthy gut microbiome that can be converted into urolithin A, B, C, D and E. That's an amazing compound for regenerating and healing mitochondria. I know that you, we were sitting down here, you were sharing with me some new technology which I love. If it's like, if I want to know what's new and going on in new products, nobody knows it before Gary Brucker, so. So I appreciate that. But you have this incredible new NAD plus product you were sharing with me. That's an incredible compound. And so, yeah, pomegranates, NAD plus, we know again, even the methylation cycle is connected here. So getting these B vitamins is critically important. I mean, I like organs and glandulars for that. If we're talking about sort of things that you're going to find that are completely food based, but it's a lot of these nutrient dense foods and then outside of that, it's getting deep restorative sleep.

Yes.

It's tied to breathing and breath, work, breathing properly, whether that be exercise or doing box breathing or those things. And the last thing that a lot of people don't talk about would be having a purpose in life according to all these ancient forms of medicine. Yeah. If you want to fuel your mitochondria, go deep, meditate, read the Bible, chew on what it says. It's, it's, it's tied to what they call the water element, which is tied to your adrenal glands. You want to go really, really deep in life. Most people today, it's like, I'm gonna have a million friends. I'm gonna be on social media. I'm doing like, we spread ourselves really thin. No. Mitochondrial health is all about going very deep spiritually, having a sense of purpose and taking action on that, you know, And I put this in a recent book that only 25% of people know what their purpose is.

Wow.

And so 75% of people are kind of wondering, not feeling really in tune with what their calling is in life. And that leads to lack of motivation that's going to affect things. But again, finding your purpose and living that out huge for mitochondrial health.

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Yeah.

And I've read tens of thousands of medical records and I've been working with this model and I've, and I've actually followed these, you know, call them patients, clients from when we did their initial mortality assessment through and then we did a post mortality assessment. Because in the life insurance business you get that data, you get day, date, time, location and cause of death. Yeah, because they need to file a death claim. And then you would go back into the predictive analytics and say how much of what we predicted was true. Did they die of cardiovascular disease? Did they die of, you know, multi system organ failure, this autoimmune condition, you know, and we, and it was, was that prediction correct? And I was very desensitized to that. And when I had this spiritual epiphany and, and decided I wanted to move into helping people live healthier lives and happier lives, longer lives, I mean, for me I've, that was a massive spiritual rebel revolution. I shed the old Gary and I, and I brought in the new. And I've never looked back. But I don't know that most people will have those epiphanistic moments. You know, sometimes I tell people, well, if you don't know what your purpose is, maybe you can find your purpose in your Pain.

Yeah, that's right.

You know, some of the most passionate, purpose driven people, impactful people I've ever met have been, have overcome an addiction, overcome a really rough relationship, have overcome, you know, immense financial constraints and bankruptcies. And then they, they work their way out of that and now they're giving that back to the world. But for people that are unclear. Yeah, what, what are some of the ways that you suggest that they narrow in on that?

Yeah, I think there's a few ideas here. Now there's a practical tool called ikigi, and this is used in, in, in Japanese culture for finding what you always give me.

Like words I've never heard.

Well, well, yeah, so, but, but here's, here's what it is. It's their word for purpose.

An English podcast, by the way, you got to speak English on here.

So, so what it is, is number one, and everybody could write this down. This is such a great exercise. What, what are your gifts? What are those gifts you have? Is it hospitality? Is it serving others? Is it health? Is it mentorship? But what, what, what, what is, what are those gifts you have? Number two, what do you love to do? Like, what really brings you a sense of joy? Where you kind of get lost in things and lose time doing it. That's the second component. Number three is what are some opportunities that may lay before you? Thinking about that. And then the fourth, and this isn't always included, but sometimes they would include what can you make a living doing? What can you, you know, what can be tied to that? Monetize it. Yeah. And so, and that's sometimes included, not always within that, that exercise. And I'll say this as well, here's another example of I think, what gives me a sense of purpose. So I know we were talking about this earlier, Charlie Kirk passing. And I know that I've so appreciated your posts and all that you've posted there. I mean I was, I mean, I just cry, I cried yesterday because, just seeing that, because there's this picture of him with his two daughters and they're the same age as my kids right now. He had, I think a 2 and 5 year old. I have a 2 and 5 year old. And I just thought, wow, like, you know, there's a proverb it reminds me of in the Bible and Solomon says, lord, teach me to number my days that I may gain a heart of wisdom. Lord, teach me to count every moment precious. And so, you know, for me, purpose as a dad, you want to go as deep and meaningful as possible with your Purpose. So for some people, you know, one of the greatest tragedies in the entire world today, and this is very high in the United States, is kids that grow up without a parent. Right? It could be, it could be a father. I mean, fatherlessness.

Oh, fatherlessness. It's astounding, the statistics. Incarceration rates, recidivism rates. I mean, I mean, it's incredible.

It is. And when you look at those statistics also, how it impacts health negatively is really very, very extreme. In fact, it's one of the greatest things that could make you sick and deal with things like autoimmune disease is actually not having a father there. And so when you look at those stats, you realize how important that is. And so if you realize. But a lot of fathers haven't fully grasped this. There are some fathers who think, well, I'm a father, if I just impregnate a woman, and then that's it. And then even if I never show up again, that makes you a father. There are other fathers. And I had an amazing dad like this. Like my dad. I had such a good dad. My dad like provided for our family. He was like a great disciplinarian. Like my dad never missed. I, I played over a thousand, you know, I played basketball and soccer and whatever. I mean, thousands of games. And my, I never remember my dad missing a single one.

That's. And so that's a blessing, man. That is a true blessing. It, yeah, I did the same for my kids. But it's, it's just such a blessing.

It is. And I'm not saying that that's the standard everybody has to go go with, but like that. But my dad was just there and that meant so much. But I think if you're going to the greatest depths of what it means to be a father, I think one is understanding your kids are gonna live for eternity. Eternity. What a great responsibility you have of raising kids up, not just now, but impacting their eternity and their kids and their kids and helping them do a couple things. One, growing character, more kind, more loving, more wise. And then also finding that unique gift they have, that God given gift and helping them cultivate that and refine that and grow in that. Because this is how people have the greatest impact in the world. The two things, they grow in character and they grow in their unique gift. That's how people have the greatest impact. Think about Michelangelo. He was an incredibly spiritual person, an amazing Christian person. And so he had a great amount of character. But with that, he took his gift to the highest level possible with that level of excellence. And so I think as a father, for me, if I have this realization and sense of purpose of God has called me to raise up two other human beings that are divine beings that are going to live for eternity and helping them grow in their character and find their gifts. You know, Mother Teresa has this quote and she said, if you want to change the world, go home and love your family. And it's part of that idea there. So I think if people are going to find a real sense of purpose, you want to attach a greater level of meaning to what you do. And it's not just that you're a mom or dad or even that you're a doctor, a health practitioner or an influencer. It's the fact that you can change the trajectory of somebody's eternity. And so I think the more that we can tap into these spiritual truths, because today, like, and I'm seeing this growing more and more, like people want to hear about this message, they want to. People are seeking out faith more than ever before. But I think we went through this period of time where the world was very cold and we kind of took spirituality out of everything. And the meaning of versus no. If you want to live your best life possible, you have to attach a great level of meaning to all, to everything you do.

No, I love that. I mean, it's so funny how sometimes we're wandering around and we don't actually realize that our purpose is all around us. I mean, that's a great quote from Mother Teresa. If you want to impact the world, go home and love your family. And sometimes, like you say, we're so busy and we knew in the mortality space, and I've talked about this a lot, that if you wanted to cut a human being's life expectancy in half, and I mean in half at any age, put them in isolation. Isolation was one of the most impactful, what we call comorbidities. So if we put this into a probabilistic model, it would aggravate and accelerate every other condition that they had. Yeah, and it would actually bring new disease etiological processes from their future into their present and it would accelerate the mortality curve. And isolation doesn't mean you're in solitary confinement, but isolation is like broken heart syndrome. You know, you 50, 60 year marriages and one pal spass. I mean, one spouse passes and one is now home alone. Yeah, that's instant isolation. We would see the same thing in the elderly when they lost pets, you know, so it's, it's Fascinating how when you talk about loving your family, it's fascinating how impactful isolation can be. And I, as I start to process that, I realize we're more isolated than ever.

Yeah.

Because we think, we think of connection as, you know, our, our iPhone.

Yeah, right.

It's not connection. It's just entertainment. It's actually not connection, it's distraction.

That's right.

You know, there's, there is no element of humanity there. And I think that that's, you know, one of the underlying root causes of these parabolic rises in autoimmune and the state of chronic disease. But before we get lost in that.

Yeah. I did want to say when it comes to mitochondrial health though, so, so one, I've brought up some more of these, I guess spiritual mindset topics because I think it's the biggest thing people forget. But I do think we want to do everything we can to both practice these traditional ideas and these more cutting edge concepts that modern day science has brought us. You know, I, you know, mitochondrial health wise as well. I mean, red light therapy is amazing. Oh, you know, I mean, so, so.

I'm such a huge fan of red light therapy and I get beat up for it all the time. I mean. And I don't even sell red light beds anymore. I mean, I don't sell red light anything right now. I use it every day. Yeah, I am such a fan. You know, and back to the mitochondria, you know, it's red light, as far as I know, is, is one of the only ways to dissociate mitochondrial nitric oxide.

It's amazing.

Chrome C oxidase and have this oxygen dock there and upstage the mitochondria.

Yeah.

Just on that benefit alone.

Yeah. Yeah. Well, listen here, here's the reality and one, you, you've been such a great pioneer and leader for people in helping them understand and, and gain access to again. We use the term biohacking. I would almost call it nature hacking. I think part of.

Oh, it's a great term. I agree with you.

Yeah, yeah. I think, I think part, part of what? So here's the thing. You should get a lot of sunshine. It's the best thing for you. It's even better than a red light bed for the most part. But, but you can't be in it every day, year round. Some people, like my wife, grew up in Minnesota. I have friends in Canada. It's like you can't get that year round if you can't get out in the direct sunlight, which is free, which you should do as much as possible. People aren't doing it near enough because the other thing is when you're getting the sun, you're not only getting red light, you're getting blue and green and violet. Like you're getting all these other forms of light that actually have differing benefits. Where red light might be more active towards mitochondria, blue light is actually highly anti inflammatory. So there are some different types of light you're getting from the sun, you're not getting from a red light bed. So lay out, do it for free. Gary talks about this free challenges on all this stuff. So do that. But red light therapy is absolutely incredible. And it's another similar thing where it's like hyperbaric oxygen therapy is incredible. But box breathing and oxygenating your body that way, that's amazing. That's free as well. I think most biohacking, it's, they're taking an element of nature and getting it in sort of a convenient way because we're so deficient. That's why I think people see such great benefits of red light therapy. It's because we get such little sunshine.

I agree. So yeah, and you know, I. The rabbit hole that I'm down lately with red light therapy is so we know about the benefits of cytochrome C oxidase and, and this dissociation of mitochondrial nitric oxide. And you know, anytime you can get more oxygen into the mitochondrion and, and get more ATP from us, a cycle of the Krebs cycle, the better for cellular energy anyway. But what's fascinating is, you know, when, when you look at our circulatory system and realize that the heart only circulates 30% of the blood in the body. So 70% of our circulation is microvascular. It's venules, capillaries. What are we doing to care? You know, and if you think we got 63,000 miles of blood vessels, what are 70% of 63,000? I'm not going to do that. 442,000 miles of blood vessel are microvascular. What are we doing to cater for that part of our circulatory system? Because by the way, this is what's feeding our eyes and our brain and our liver and our lungs and our pancreas and our kidneys. I mean, think about how small capillaries have to be to bring gases to the lung, not bleed fluid into the lung and bring gases back to tissues. I mean this is very small vasculature. Yeah, red light really caters to that. 70% of the circulatory system. It can actually restore vascular laxity to these, you know, can restore vasomotor and vasomotion activity. So, yeah, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm just a huge fan.

What's interesting is the color of light will tell you the benefit. Like red light is most benefit for the cardiovascular system and circulation in those areas. Blue light is most beneficial for hormonal system, green light for the detoxification system. And so, like, it's crazy. Kind of there's even a color coding there. But yeah, I mean, there are so many people today that are circulatory deficient. I mean, and again, this is why nitric oxide, red light therapy, beet juice, I mean, these sort of things are incredible.

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Yeah.

And, and the reason why I appreciate that is because parasites don't show up on your labs. The effects of it may or may not.

Yeah.

Unless you're doing very specific labs. But I'm saying on a routine blood panel, hormones, you know, thyroid, you know, your lipid panel, cbc, cmp, you're not going to catch these things. And what I see in the community, that I have a VIP community where I'm very interactive with, and I would say as a broad complaint, I guess, for lack of better words, there's a lot of people that have great labs and feel awful.

Oh, yeah.

And they are tired of being told over and over and over again, your labs are fine. Your labs are perfect. It's all in your head. Get stress out of your life or these just big blanket dismissal, you know, diagnoses. You're one of the few people out there talking about the impact of parasites, impact of mold and mycotoxins. And I don't want to scare everybody, but we all have parasites.

Yeah, we do. We all have cancer cells. We all have CTCs. We do.

We do. So if someone falls into that category of my labs are great and I just don't feel good, I know something's wrong. I. I've got brain fog. I've got poor focus and concentration. I wake up feeling like a lead balloon in the morning. You know, I have days where I have crushing fatigue. You know, all of those things that these little bugs cause on the. On the parasite side, where do they start? And how do we get rid of parasites?

Yeah. So. So, so, first off, I think, and you brought this up earlier, one of the greatest things making people sick today, and most every person in longevity would agree with this, is this sort of immunodeficiency. And this is where your immune system is tacked. You're building up these immunosenescent cells in our immune system. Sick. I think that when I. In order to address that and find that and find the cause of that. Let me go to the blood work thing first. You and I have both experienced this. I have had thousands of people come into me saying, I feel awful, but my blood work is normal. Yeah. And then doctors.

Thousands.

Yeah. And doctors will say, oftentimes it's all in your head, you're fine. Here's the thing about a lot of lab work, though. It might look at what's in your blood, but it doesn't look at what's going on inside your cell. It doesn't go and look at what's going on in every organ system. And so it's. I mean, you're only. You're only seeing a snapshot at one point in time, not what's going on in terms of trends on a regular basis. So. So to your point, I think that. And then a lot of the lab tests, I don't want to necessarily say outdated, but they're not enough. I mean, there are a lot of other things we should be looking at.

Very, very basic.

And so when it comes to these microbial overgrowth, the first thing that people are getting wrong, whether it be with a parasite or long Covid or Lyme disease or mold, is that the first thing they try and do is go and Kill the infection. That's the first thing they try and do. And oftentimes it's with an antibiotic drug that is today statistically the most common thing that people are taking.

Oxycycline for Lyme disease, for example.

Exactly, exactly. But the thing is, is that I don't think that you got a parasite necessarily. Now some people are going to get it because maybe they're on a mission, they're on a vacation in Cancun, Mexico. Okay. And you ate something and, and you got infection away. That can happen. But one of the bigger ways is.

I'm going to Cancun in a few weeks. Can we pick another place to get a parasite?

Here, here's what I'll say.

Costa Rica.

Yeah, yeah.

Dominican. Well, now you're freaking me out.

Well, by the way, I will say we both love Cancun. We got one of our favorite clinics re health there. So it's okay.

So if you get a parasite, you.

Can go to rehealth. Exactly. I, I go regularly. So I love Cancun. So, but, but you know, I think for most people they actually get the infection and it spreads because their immune system is depleted to start with. I think if, if most people's immune systems were strong and bolstered enough, they would have the infection come in and their immune system would kill it. They would kill the parasites. It would in. But that's not happening. And so the first thing people need to do if they have a parasitic infection or, or any infection, Lyme, long, Covid, they need to strengthen their immune system, get more rest, spend more time in the sun, spend more time with community and then take herbals and eat foods that are immune strengthening, not the ones that are killing things, but that are strengthening your own immune system and then your immune system will kill the infection in part. So this is where I really like an herb like astragalus. I love reishi mushroom. I like ashwagandha to a degree. These things are very, very building over time of the immune system and then also taking things to just get out of the fight or flight state. Everything from skull cap to higher doses of magnesium to magnolia, things that kind of help lower fight or flight, strengthen up your body's mitochondria and then your body can kill a lot of it itself. Now if you have a severe infection, like a severe parenthetic infection, you're going to want to take some anti parasitic herbs.

Anti parasitic herbs, but not. You're not a big fan of like ivermectin.

I'd actually Be okay with that in a lot of cases. Yeah. I think ivermectin. Listen, if somebody has a very severe. Here's what I have a problem with sometimes, and I did a whole episode on this on my podcast a few weeks back, and that is people are taking like ivermectin and hydroxychloroquine. Like they're vitamins, like long term. Listen, no, they're not vitamins. They're medications that are great if you have a very specific condition. Okay. But if you don't, there's other things you should be taking, not those things. But. Oh, yeah, I absolutely believe if you have a parasitic infection and you know it's severe, ivermectin's great. I'll tell you something, my cousin, he's a pastor and he's a functional medicine practitioner. He's been doing mission trips to Pakistan and India for the past 25 years. Wow. He was diagnosed about a year ago with glioblastoma. And glioblastoma, you know this from the. I mean, your chance of living is one is less than 1%, right. Over five years, it's like. It's almost. It's like 1 in 10,000. I mean, it's so low. He's a year now going strong. Just read it as scans. Markers are perfect. Feels amazing. He relieves. He got. Glioblastoma is one of the most severe forms of a brain tumor.

And it's inoperable and it's aggressive.

Very aggressive. Exactly. And he. They believe that he got it because of all these mission trips he went on. Parasites and there. And I didn't know this until I started doing the research because I started working on a program with some other docs to. A program for him to heal. And I didn't realize that one of the greatest causes of cancer today is co infections like parasites. I mean, if you get a parasitic infection, your chance of getting cancer, I mean, it's worse than eating glyphosate. It's worse. I mean, it is one of the worst things that could happen. And so I became very aware of this. But he took ivermectin and we had him do a lot of these herbals we're talking about. But the herbals that are probably the most effective are black walnut and wormwood.

Black walnut and wormwood.

And wormwood tastes as bad as it sounds.

Okay.

It is terrible. I mean, but they're very bitter. And different flavors tend to have compounds that do certain things in the body. But the flavor of bitter is very tends to be very antiviral. So think about oregano as well or some of those things that have a bitterness to them.

How do you take these? You can them in powder form. Do you take them in the. In their raw form?

I typically have people do capsules or tinctures of. Of black walnut and wormwood. And there are others that are great too. But those are the two most commonly recommended and prescribed by holistic practitioners for parasitic infections. And then along with that ivermectin. Now those are things you don't want to be on long term. It's anywhere from typically a two week cycle to a six week cycle of those. And then with that you oftentimes want to do binders. Now a lot of people like activated charcoal. I'm not as big a fan of that. I'm in a short term I think it's great. Like if I have somebody having the server fillings removed or a two week cleanse, I'll have them do that and I think it's fantastic. But I think if you're going to do something a little more long term. I really like clay. I really like chlorella, I guess silica clay.

Corella.

Exactly. I like pectin, like citrus pectin. So those are. And zeolites are great too. And then very high dose probiotics. Often people do a trillion a day wow of probiotics, especially post post treating. But if you follow that right process of strengthen, kill and bind and then of course with that infrared sauna sweating is just absolutely amazing to support the process. But you have helped a lot of people get rid of and kill parasitic infections long Covid these these different types of infections. But a lot of people don't do the right process. It's like I'm going to take one supplement or I'm going to take just an antibiotic and then they never fully get rid of the infection.

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It was crazy this year, the amount of ticks. Crazy, crazy. Yeah.

I mean, I have quite a few clients that are going through Lyme protocols with me. But, you know, the interesting thing about Lyme is it's not usually just the viral infection. You have co infections, you know. That's right. The parasitic infection and the. And the bacterial infection. And if you're not testing for the Lyme co infections, the borrelia, burgonosis, like some of these co infections that you can get at the same time that you get the Lyme virus. And then Lyme is. Seems to be particularly tricky. You know, it sort of retreats or hides in the dorsal root ganglion.

Yeah.

It can have these undulating periods where it comes back. So I wonder if we could talk about Lyme for a few minutes because, you know, the first line defense is 21 days doxycycline and you're done. Don't worry about it.

Yeah.

And I think the sad thing about that is that it works for that period of time because people feel horrible because they got the Lyme infection. They take the doxycycline, they're like, oh, feel great, that's over. And. But now the parasitic infection, the bacterial infection. So I wonder if you might talk about that.

Well, the first thing that happened is people skipped a step. They didn't strengthen. You know, Lyme overcame your. But you know, this is years ago. My whole family, like my immediate family, like my sister, my brother, my dad, my mom, we all took a, and we did a very. This is like ultra powered microscope and did test it, see if we had Lyme. I'm the only person in my family that didn't show up at all. Four of my family, my immediate family members had Lyme disease. What was weird is that.

And did you test by the antibodies?

Yeah. Yeah.

Okay, so you look for lime.

And so, but, but they, but none of them had symptoms. But my sister had, my brother had Hashimoto's, my mom, you know, like, like there were other symptoms, but not like these common symptoms that you would see with like the joint pain and some of the things you'd see of, of Lyme. A lot of people have Lyme, but if your immune system is strong enough, you will have no symptoms. So my point there is, is that you do need to take something to help kill Lyme. But more importantly you need to strengthen your own system so your, your own immune system can keep Lyme and cancer and all the other co infections at bay. There's another study that was really interesting. They said if you get long Covid that viral infection, it activates these other co infections like Lyme disease. Like your chance, if you got long Covid your chance of expressing Lyme and other types of infection.

If it was dormant, for example.

That's right. If it was dormant, it's like waking it up. And so that's an issue too. But when it comes to Lyme, what I like to do specifically is I like to do a lot of. Well, one, let me go to diet. Most people don't. We try and treat it all with supplements and not with diet. I really want to do more of a traditional diet based on like Weston A. Price Foundation. It's a lot of soups. It'd be a Chinese medicine diet similar to what you'd find in the Bible too. But it's a lot of soups, it's meat, it's vegetables. That's the primary part of the diet. Then again, I like pomegranates, I like berries. If that's the basis of your diet, maybe there's some sweet potato there as well. But, but that's the basis of the diet. And then from there I actually, I do think that working on your emotional mental health is really important there. And then from a supplement standpoint for building. I like Astragalus and schisandra. Those are astragalus and Schisandra. Schisandra is a berry that's used in Japanese medicine and Asian medicine that oftentimes it's the main supplement they recommend for mono nucleosis if somebody has mono. But it's extremely immune boosting. Same with astragalus. So doing high doses of that, high doses of probiotics and then a lot of vitamin D and zinc and so really bolstering up and strengthening your own immune system. And then from there there are supplements to take to fight Lyme, like one called Japanese knotweed that's really high in resveratrol. And then you've got cat's claws popular and andro graphis would be another one. But. But yeah, I mean those are probably some of the best and Then. But that's what I would do. And then. And then take your time, you know, and do a lot of the other biohacking things you talked about. I really think deep breathing and red light therapy are so. So deep breathing.

Red light therapy, sauna.

Yes.

Hydrogen nanobass. There's a very interesting blood filtration that I've. I'm actually going down to do on the 19th of this month, September. You know, I did a podcast with Dr. Mink Chawla, and he. He's a nephrologist that. Yeah. Was an ICU septic specialist and modified a dialysis type filter to filter out CTCs, circulating tumor cells, viral pathogens, all kinds of things. Glyphosate, even bisphenols, microplastics.

Wow. I saw you doing plasma exchange. I saw you doing that, I think, in New York somewhere.

Yeah, I did once in la and I did it once in New York.

It was. How did you. How did you feel after that? Did you.

I was tired that day. Yeah. The first time I did it, I. It was in LA at Dr. Darshan Charles Clinic. Next Health.

Yeah.

And amazing clinic, by the way. And I went in and. And I did it. My wife was so freaked out because I held up that bag.

Yeah. Yeah.

I feel like you need that in your body. It's like two liters, you know, of that yellowy fluid. And then I wish I'd sent that to the lab to see what was What. What was in it. But in any case, they replaced it with albumin, sterile albumin. And I was flying 16 hours to Dubai. So I literally went from the next health clinic to the plane, and it was perfect because I slept, like nine hours. Then when I woke up, I felt like the light switches came on. Like I took a limitless pill. I was eating my wife's face, and she's like, I didn't sleep on the plane. You need to shut up. I mean, like, I'm so happy to be here. Look at the ocean. There's a palm tree. So how tall that building is? Yeah, it's like Captain Chatty. I was just on fire. I felt amazing the next day. The second time I did it, I felt a little fatigued for. For two full days. And then the third day, I kind of had that little spike. So I think different people have different results. But, you know, I'm a big fan of trying to remove all of these things that are just distracting our immune system. You know, if we can get things like heavy metals and parasites and viruses and glyphosates and forever chemicals. I mean, to the extent that we can get those things out of the body, there's less for. For the immune system to do, so.

Totally. Yeah. And your body can spend that time now doing other things. Regenerating, healing, you know, cleaning up the other senescent cells, those things out of your body. I agree. You know, another thing I, I do like for almost all infections, I like it for mold the best, but I like it for Lyme is ozone. I love ozone therapy. So. Yeah. Yeah.

I mean, I actually have a ho cat machine in my house. I have a trans. Yeah, I mean, you, you've got, you got one after. I got it too.

Yeah. Yeah. You have the greatest, you know, sort of biohacking setup I've ever seen.

It's pretty amazing. It's pretty. That's a really big compliment because I remember you called me and you're like, where'd you get the machine? You, you call me when you.

Which is all. I mean, amazing too.

So where do you fall in the world of peptides?

Yeah.

Would you ever use a peptide like a thymus and alpha or something to help boost the immune system? Do you? Do you.

I'm a huge fan of peptides. A huge fan. Now here's what I will say. I tend to be a more. I'm trying to think the right word for holist or naturalist in terms of what my understandings are. And this is from looking at medical literature and combining that I always try and do this and I really try and have what does the medical literature say? What does the ancient medicine say? And combine those two and take the greatest sort of ideas from those. But peptide therapy, if you want to go back to the original peptide therapy, it was taking glandulars and organs. I mean, that's where they're found in the highest levels in the body. And so thymosin alpha 1 before we had thymosin or even TB500, that's from the thymus gland. And so one of the oldest cancer protocols is taking thymus gland in order to fight cancer. Because of all of what's down your immune system. Exactly. And you can go back to Gerson therapy. It's so funny, this was left out in like the 90s and 2000s. The original Gerson therapy was not just juice vegetables, it was raw liver. And liver is loaded with peptides. And so if people want to do the most food based form of peptides, eat organs and glandulars, you know, there's this great meat brand called forces in Nature. They have liver and heart in their meat. You really don't taste it at all. So, so getting or, or take, they.

Call them organ blends.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. The organ blends like getting more liver and heart in these organs that as a food base supplement or actual food that's going to give you your greatest level of peptides overall. However, there are a lot of ways where regular peptides, especially the BPC157TB500GHKCU as that sort of trinity blend there for tissue regeneration. That's so impactful. You know when I went through my.

Seen those work miracles in people legitimately.

Yeah.

Seen it work miracles.

Yeah. You know, when I, when I had my, my spinal infection, didn't walk for a year and I'm just going on that was three years ago. I, I needed, I was just desperate for healing. And the two things that moved the needle the most, one I mentioned was stem cell therapy. But the other thing where, where night and day. Two weeks later I was like, wow. I, I, I feel and can tell my tissues have literally regenerated. Was after taking BPC157, TB500 and the GHKCU that blend, I could not believe the pain reduction. My mobility improve and so I'm a big fan. I will say there's this sort of old quote and it's the dose determines the medicine or the poison. So the dosage I think is important for certain peptides. This is where the GLP one. Yeah. Like the Ozempic is an example. The micro dosing, I guess I don't really have much of a problem with that. But the high dosing we know causes a high level of gastroparesis that's going to lead to poor nutrient absorption, increased risk of sibo, just nutritional deficiencies, dependency, tachyphylaxis. And the amount of muscle loss is absolutely insane. I saw a quote from a researcher, he said the amount of muscle loss the average person has from taking Ozempic is the equivalent of aging yourself 20 years. Making yourself 20 years older by giving yourself sarcopenia. That's right.

Accelerated sarcopenia.

Yeah. So you are making yourself sick. So again, that's actually a peptide. There's a lot of peptides people don't realize are peptides.

Insulin. It's a peptide.

Exactly. You're right. Insulin's a peptide. Creatine is a tripeptide. Glutathione is a tripeptide. So peptides are the future of medicine. We're going to continue to see this. Absolutely grow like crazy. Over the next five years. And like even BPC157, that is the peptide found in your duodenum, stomach lining and stomach acid. And so if you think about what it does, it helps break down things in order to make them more absorbable by the body. So there are, it protects your body, it's there for protection. So I'm a huge fan of peptides and we're gonna see this whole group called bioregulators explode in the future. And this is where you take the, typically the highest. You take peptides from organs, they're made synthetically and then you, but in higher concentrations and you take those for healing organs. So Livogen heals the liver, cardiolipin heals the heart. So it's.

So these are, these are organ derived peptides to support that organ's function. Which is BPC is a gastric pentateca peptide.

It's just like that.

And I think, you know, we've used it to heal and seal the gut. I, I take the peptide patches. I have this nagging bicep tendon tear.

Yeah.

That I've just been nursing forever and I kid you not. 3. I did a Monday, Wednesday, Friday, 12 hour patch on, on a Monday, 12 hours on Wednesday, 12 hours on a Friday. This is an N of 1. So there's no clinical study behind this. But, but, and by early the next week, for the first time, full range of motion and completely pain free. And it was just BBC, NAD and ghkcu.

It's incredible. You know, I know. I feel like there's already just so much anecdotal evidence on the benefits of those specific peptides we're talking about for tissue regeneration, pain reduction and healing. But I think we're going to see these in the future really grow for like women's hormones. Like I'm working with, I'm actually working on a, with a scientist on peptides right now for, for women's hormones. So we're going to do one that's a thyroid peptide, adrenal peptide, ovary peptide and then one called epitalin and Pinellian.

And those are for brain, aren't they telomerase peptides?

Epitalin is, yeah. And so, but, but these peptides. So we're going to see it for women's hormones for testosterone. We know there's already a lot for testosterone actually but, but we're going to continue to see them for autoimmune disease. Like Thymosin Alpha 1 has great research for lowering thyroid antibodies for Hashimoto's Rheumatoid arthritis.

Incredible.

Yeah, so, so, yeah, I'm absolutely on the peptide bandwagon.

I'm very much on the peptide bandwagon too, because, you know, I feel like broadly you could put most things into one of two categories. You know, metabolites are things the body recognizes. We have enzymes for, we have waste elimination pathways for. So, you know, you eat a piece of chicken, the chicken gets broken down, that protein gets broken down to the amino acids. The amino acids essentially become other tissues or build other proteins. But, but, and then whatever that waste is from that methylation process, the body can get rid of. So we can metabolize them and then get rid of the waste. And then there are other things that the body doesn't have enzymes for, doesn't recognize, cannot eliminate to waste things like forever chemicals. And I think this is a large part of the side effect theory in, in pharmaceuticals because the body doesn't recognize these things. They're synthetic or they're chemical. So I, I agree with you. I think the threshold of safety is so high and, you know, the barrier for, you know, positive outcomes is also so high. I think it's going to be the future.

And I. Yeah, they're very similar to what a vitamin and supplement would do. You know, a vitamin or mineral. I mean, it's, it's, it's something your body can use as a building block to create hormones or just to bring balance. And so I absolutely agree.

I have a feeling too, that based on knowing you and our conversations, that your new book, the Biblio Diet, is, is going to be a lot about Back to the basics. Yeah, I haven't read it yet. I'm excited to read it. I hope that copies for me.

It is.

Okay, good.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's for you there.

You're not coming in, you're not getting out unless you give me that. Oh, yeah. But so, so tell me about the, the Biblio diet.

Yeah, well, this is a diet that's based on the Bible, and I believe that the Bible is the greatest health book ever written. You mentioned it was the greatest wealth book ever written. I really think that it's, it's absolutely incredible. And myself and Jordan Rubin, we, we really spent a lot of time. I'm talking about years and years cumulatively saying, what does the Bible say about healing and longevity? And the subtitle there is healing and longevity.

Long time in the Bible, by the way. Oh, very long time.

Oh, yeah. You know, when I started going through with sort of this microscope and Lens of what does the Bible say about health, healing and longevity? You'll start to see it everywhere. I mean, absolutely everywhere, from Genesis to the book of Revelation. Here's an example. You know, Genesis, when you're reading it and actually understanding the sort of plants that were grown there, they were growing something that we'd call a regenerative food forest. And so it wasn't like today. We plant annual plants that just grow for one season. You have to replant them and then till the soil, which harms the environment, like soy, corn and wheat. It's fruit trees like apples and berry bushes and strawberries that cover the ground. I mean, those are the sort of things. So Adam was tending to the garden, not replanting. He was just simply being an artist in what he was doing. And God called us to take the Garden of Eden in this one little area in the Middle east and spread it through the entire world. So that's in the book of Genesis, those first few chapters. You go to the last book of the Bible. In Revelation, the second to last chapter, the last two chapters, Revelation 21 and 22, it says, in the end, we will live in a garden city. Essentially, this entire planet will be a Garden of Eden. And so we know, like, as health practitioners and people that are into health, like, what an amazing calling to think about if everywhere you went, it's like a scene from Lord of the Rings. It's like you're living in a garden city. So we know we're called to do that. And then we see this progression through the Bible in terms of what we should be eating and doing. We see with these perennial plants, these very nutrient dense fruits and vegetables and nuts that we're likely growing that they ate. And then we see afterwards, when they're casting from the garden, modern agriculture. So we see the growing of grains after that. In Genesis 9, 3, after the flood in Noah, he says, you can now eat the things that creep and crawl on the ground. After that, we see the laws of Moses where God through Moses basically says, listen, there's a lot of these things you can eat, but there's some things like bottom feeders like pork and shellfish and, you know, and a lot of these certain other types of animals, bats, reptiles, you don't eat those because they store toxins and they don't eliminate very well. So when you're eating. That's the issue with pork today, by the way, I get some pushback on because I don't think that it's a sin to eat pork, okay? I don't think we're under that same law today if there's people of faith listening to this. But I don't believe that all of a sudden it became healthy after Jesus was here on Earth. It's still not healthy. In fact, we talked about parasites earlier. The number one carrier of parasites that we eat in America today that gives us parasites is pork. Number one, trichinosis, it's by far. And so pork, they have digestive systems that store toxins that don't eliminate. So it's the worst meat you could eat for most people. Shrimp and shellfish would be the next one. They're so high in dioxins and chemicals. And even modern medicine has shown this in terms of the scientific literature. And then later on in the Bible, there's a Bible verse I love, and it's First Corinthians 10:31. It says this. Whether you eat, drink, or whatever you do do all for the glory of God. And I think that's a big heart behind the Biblio diet is eating because you have a purpose. You know, I used to have a. I had a. I took care of a lot of pastors in Nashville is where I had my practice.

And they're not the best eaters, by the way. No, not the ones I knew growing up.

They're terrible. Well, look, listen, growing up, I was real involved in churches, like church potlucks in the Midwest.

The worst.

So bad.

The coffee and the Styrofoam coffee donuts.

Oh, yeah, yeah, it's absolutely.

I loved it when I was 10, though, dude. I was.

Oh, yeah.

It was like my favorite part of church was right afterwards.

I agree, I agree. But I think today some churches are. Are kind of waking. It's funny, there's a lot of pastors.

Yeah, they need to read the Biblio diet.

Well, you know. Oh, they do. You know, one pastor who read this and gave us great feedback was Craig Groeschel. And he's a very fit pastor you think about. Also, you know, Stephen Furtick, there's a lot of these pastors that they're actually much more into health, I think, than the previous generation. But all that being said, I think the Biblio Diet first and foremost is focusing on honoring God with your body and following the advice in the Bible. So it's staying away from pork and shellfish. You know, the most commonly referenced foods in the Bible, like the American Heart association, would just cringe at. You know, it's so anti mainstream medicine. But the most common food referenced is red Meat. There's a, actually there's a. In the writings on Solomon, there's something called Solomon's provisions. People can check this out. And the number one thing he's eating is just all kinds of red meat. Elk and beef and lamb and the wisest man ever lived. So red meat, extra virgin olive oil. Yeah, yeah, Red meat, extra virgin olive oil. Dairy that's raw and organic, oftentimes fermented or wouldn't last more than a, more than a day or so. And then you've got a lot of fruits. Reference. Pomegranates and figs along with olives are referenced the most in terms of fruit. And then you have sourdough bread and then you have honey. And I will say that the foods referenced in the Bible, the form they were in during that day is so different than today because a lot of people might think, well, honey that might have a lot of sugar or well, salt is referenced a lot in the Bible. Bread and milk, those can't be healthy. But the bread they had was a very nutrient dense ancient grain that they then would harvest. They would soak, lay out in the sun and let it dry. So it was sprouted. They then would mill it themselves and then they would ferment it into sourdough bread. So it was a very. And the same thing with dairy today. I mean, dairy today is homogenized, it's pasteurized, it's got so many chemicals in it. If you're buying conventional. There was a study out of Spain.

Cary giants, all kinds of things.

Oh, it's terrible. There's a study out of Spain that said if you're drinking just the average milk you get off the shelf has nearly 30 different medications and chemicals in it. One of them that was very high in was estradiol, which is going to cause, you know, a lot of these young girls are hitting menstruation so early. You know, a lot of men are testosterone levels low and it's in part due to all these hormones in our milk and meat supply. But, but you know, ancient dairy was super high in probiotics, minerals, fat soluble vitamins and, and then honey was used as a form of natural medicine. Now proverbs are clear like eat a little, not too much.

Right.

Is is in there as well. But yeah, the Bible really walks through. Here's what to eat has principles on fasting which are absolutely incredible. Using essential oils. Herbs are referenced. Saffron is reference.

Yeah.

Amazing for, for brain and mood. So. So yeah, we went through and sort of created a book that really dives.

Deep into much saffron either. Yeah, just a little. Yeah, yeah. My wife and I get the. This. We have a friend that gives us this Iranian saffron. It comes from. Comes from Iran. It comes in this little thin dish. It is so retarded. Expensive.

Oh, it is crazy.

It's like the size of a cd, not much thicker. There's not a lot of saffron in there, but you really don't need much, you know.

Yeah, the dosage that the main study is is like 88 milligrams. So it's very, very. I mean, compared to a thousand of like turmeric.

So it's. Yeah, and it's one of those things. I, I knew nothing about saffron. And he went on this long diatribe about how it's harvested. But I mean, it's I guess the one little petal, not petal, but stalk inside the flower, and they literally go in there and pluck it out. So when you see this jar full of all of these little fibers, those were plucked one by one by one from, you know, giant fields of saffron. So now I like, really, I really appreciate it.

Oh, yeah. You know, one other thing. We get into the book and I think, you know, this has become somewhat polarizing, controversial. You know, I saw a post recently, it is, you know, where there was a, there was a shooting and, and there was some, there were some really well known people and even a pastor saying, we need to pray for this person's family, for this. And then somebody said, you know, prayer doesn't do anything. It's not enough.

I saw that unfolding and.

Yeah, and you know what?

Especially when the people that the victims were praying at the time, if you're referring.

That's right, it is. That's exactly what I'm referring to. And you know, prayer has an amazing ability to heal. You know, when I had my spinal infection, my mom had cancer. It was the number one form of medicine we were practicing on a daily basis is prayer. And there in the book of James in the Bible it says, if you're sick, go to the elders of the church, have them pray for you for healing, have them anoint your head with oil, and you will be made. Well. It's very clear. It's probably one of the most clear things in the Bible. If you do this, you will be healed. And this is something even the church has got away from. That doesn't do very often. I mean, how often if we're sick, do we have somebody go place their hands on us. Pray for us for healing and believe in faith that we're going to be made. Well, now, there's also this thing interesting in there. There's something in the Bible called the holy anointing oil, and it was a blend of olive oil as the base, and then cinnamon, cassia, myrrh, and calamus oil. Sometimes frankincense were added to this oil blend. They used it to anoint kings, but they also used it for healing. So it was a very potent essential oil blend that they would use there as well. But, you know, and there are studies on prayer, but I think overall, I think if somebody is sick, one of the greatest things you can do is ask somebody to pray for you for healing. Pray for your own healing. I believe God's at work today. And that's. I mean, the Bible never says, like, eat this and you'll be healed, but it does say, act with faith in prayer. Those things will actually heal you.

Yeah. That's fascinating. I'm excited to read it, excited to have you back on the podcast. You know, I have a group called my VIP group, and it's. These are. These are the community. This is the community that I'm building. So. And every time I have a podcast, we, you know, we end the podcast and we go into a private room and they get to ask you questions directly. A whole bunch of questions for you. So, yeah, if you're interested in becoming a VIP, you can head over to theultimatehuman.com forward/vip, sign up to via VIP, and you can submit questions for Dr. Ask or anyone else. But before I wind down the podcast, I ask all my guests the same question. I probably asked you this last time, too, so maybe I'll have a different answer. But what does it mean to you to be an ultimate human?

You know, along with what we've been discussing, I think the ultimate human is somebody who is doing the greatest good. Loving God, loving people, making Earth a heavenly place. I think that's what an ultimate human is. I think in order to do that, you've got to take care of your health. I think it's critically important. I had a pastor once, and he was in his 70s, and he was my best patient, like, anytime I like. And you've had people like this every lecture you ever did, anything you ever.

Put up, like, he was there, he would consume it.

Yeah. And I asked him, I said, pastor John, you're my best patient. Why are you so committed? And he said, because I want to be helping serve the poor and preach the gospel when I'm in my 90s. And I thought, you're an ultimate human, that's amazing. And Jesus was the ultimate human. So I think the idea there is why are you trying to be healthy right now? Why are we trying to be healthy? Is it for vanity's sake or because you have a God given mission? You know that you were called to raise up world changing kids. You know you're called to. You have this gift and this book to write or this thing to do and that's why you're eating, that's why you're fueling your body. So I think that's part of the mindset that goes with becoming an ultimate.

Human, giving yourself that.

Why? That's right.

Yeah. F. Fantastic man. Great answer. Yeah, thanks so much. So guys, I hope you enjoyed the podcast. If you're interested in becoming a VIP, just head over to the ultimatehuman.com VIP and until next time, that's just science.