#100 | “Uncomfortable Conversations, Unshakeable Love”—Reflections from Six Years of LGBTQ Family Growth

Welcome to Just Breathe Parenting Your LGBTQ Teen, the podcast transforming the conversation around loving and raising an LGBTQ child. My name is Heather Hester, and I am so grateful you are here. I want you to take a deep breath and know that for the time we are together, you are in the safety of the Just Breathe nest. Whether today's show is an amazing guest, or me sharing stories, resources, strategies, or lessons I've learned along our journey, I want you to feel like we're just hanging out at a coffee shop having a cozy chat. Most of all, I want you to remember that wherever you are on journey right now, in this moment in time, you are not alone.

Welcome back to Just Breathe. I am so happy you are all here today. Today is actually a huge, huge, huge day for the podcast, and I am so excited about the episode that you are about to get to listen to because it is, uh, celebration, and it is a collection of some of your most favorite guests who have been on the show in the past, um, and who have been requested to return. So I have 3 of my most favorite humans with me today on the show. I have my husband Steve and my son Connor and my daughter Gray with us here on the show to talk about just everything that has happened in the past 6 and a half years, question mark, something like that. But specifically, I was really thinking about this today, that when I started this podcast in November of 2019, it was pre-pandemic. It was Connor's freshman year of college. That really seems like it was a very long time ago. So A lot has happened even since I started this podcast. So I'm really, really excited just to kind of get into— we've had some brainstorming on things that we wanted to share, but really just to talk about what has gone on within our family and things that we've learned and things that we want to share with, with you all. Whether it's words of wisdom or funny stories or just give you a sneak peek into the, the banter that, that does occur. And just for reference sake, my other daughter Isabel and my youngest son Rowan were invited to come on the show as well, and they, um, this is not their sweet spot, so they politely said no. So I just didn't want anybody to think they had been not included. So anyway, thank you all for being here. I'm so happy. And oh, one more thing really quick, I just— so everybody knows where everyone's coming from. I'm in my usual studio, but Steve is, is at his office. Grace is joining us from SCAD, Savannah College of Art and Design, in Savannah, Georgia, where they are doing a 5-week camp slash college classes slash experience, and Connor is joining us from Brooklyn. So this is just super fun. So thank you, thank you, thank you for being here.

Of course, it's our great pleasure.

Yes.

So this, this is, uh, yes, it might be a little— as we're all trying not to talk over each other, we're either going to not talk over each other or we're going to all be talking at the same time. Why don't we just kind of start out with a broad question or a broad just kind of reflection of just growth that we've seen in our family specifically over the past 6 and a half years and things that each, each of you have noticed.

Let's see, I mean, I think like especially over the past 6 years, particularly over the past 4 years, obviously living or moving out semi-permanently, there's definitely been a shift in the, I guess, formalities, or maybe like, yeah, I guess formalities is the word I'm looking for. I feel like it's much less like we're just much more comfortable around each other, much more comfortable being candid, much more able to like just level with each other and come at each other with empathy versus perhaps lack of understanding. Whereas before, I think that was— there was just wasn't as much communication. And obviously, thank you to lots of individual and family therapy, that no longer the case. But yeah, I would say that's definitely been the biggest shift, like being able to come home after being gone for several months and having it be just a very like picking up where we left off, but also like it's not like— I don't know. Yeah, it's good.

I agree because I had the same thought that, uh, the overall family dynamic in the last 6 years has gotten a lot more relaxed. Everybody's able to be more true to theirselves. To themselves, and nobody has to hide who they are or what they're thinking. We still tease each other and we laugh at each other and pick on each other for things we might say, but everyone's welcome to express themselves and be open. I'd say that's one of the biggest changes that happened since Connor came out was that part of it is the maturity level of all of the family members has continued to grow, right? But then the other part is that Mom and I have become much more open-minded than when we were younger parents and just more understanding for the issues that, that everybody is going through.

For me, it's a little different because 6 and a half years ago I was like 11. So there's not much I can speak to about how our family was then. But I do know that in the past 6 and a half years, it has been a very comforting place. And no one's really afraid to talk about certain things where it's made a lot of parts about growing up easier because we can have these conversations not only like with my parents, but like also with siblings because of kind of everything. We were closer than I think a lot of other people can say that they are with their family.

Do you think that's why? Because people do ask, you know, do your kids get along, or why, why do your kids all get along so well? And, you know, my answer is typically, well, they've been through a lot together, and we've all been through a lot together. And, but would you give another answer to that?

I don't know about Connor, but I would say that definitely has a big part of it. And just like, especially in the past few years, we kind of like, we've been growing up a lot, like Connor and Isabella are in college. So there is that opportunity for Rowan and I to get closer and get along more because of like that kind of just closer relationship when we're both the only ones at home. But because we went through so much together, we kind of didn't have to get— go through the point of trying to understand each other. Like, we were kind of already on the same page, so that made it a lot easier, I guess.

Yeah, I'd agree. I think, yeah, like the, the, the collective experience, I'd say, especially kind of the years, 2-ish years leading up to me leaving for college, I think were particularly challenging for everyone involved. And then subsequently COVID, you know, both provided, I think, a lot of time of being— and yes, being like very challenging times for everyone, like not just me. I think it's been like something for everyone at one point or another. But like being able to get over those things, and again, thank you to communication and to therapy and to all of that. But then now the past couple years, I think I've been more just like, like Grace said, like, I mean, it hasn't been for me, but like with you guys having different dynamics at home with like, you know, that's like kind of a lot of different relationships to form. But then also for those of us who haven't been home, i.e., Isabel and I, and I guess right now you, you know, the absence makes the heart grow fonder and all that. So I think there's a level of like, then when we come back, there's a different appreciation for that family dynamic. So yeah, I don't think I answered the original question, but yeah, that's—

I think that was, I think that was very good. I mean, it was really just meant to kind of lead lead the conversation somewhere, so that, that is okay. How do you think that, or what would be your reflection on how you've grown? And then you've, you know, everybody's kind of already said this a little bit, but how you've grown individually or kind of as a person, and, and more than just kind of the obvious ways of, well, I've gotten older. What are, what are some of the things that just come right to mind?

Dad, do you want to go first?

Uh, sure. I would say in the last 6 years, 6 and a half years, the most, uh, or the biggest area that I've changed or grown is my approach and viewpoint of social issues. Obviously I've become incredibly concerned about LGBTQ issues and all that. But even beyond that, even more than that, just social issues in general that possibly in the past I thought was a very black and white type of decision. I realize so much in the world is gray and that compromise is actually probably the best thing, which unfortunately nowadays doesn't seem to ever happen. But it's definitely something that has— my mind has changed completely. You know, a lot of people, a lot of the listeners have been brought up to think one way. That's how my parents taught me. That's what I did forever. And It's good to be able to change that mindset and realize I can, I can discover new things and I can understand new viewpoints and not be, well, that's the way we've always done it, so that's the way it has to stay. So that would be it.

I love that.

I guess for me, the biggest shift over the past 6 years, I guess, like you know, especially as it relates to the topics of this podcast. You know, I think my relation— my understanding of my relationship to queerness, um, has definitely continued to evolve. And that was like always the thing, like, you know, that therapists would say, especially when I first came out. It's like, oh yeah, that's like, you know, you came out, but that's like just the first step. And I don't think I really fully grasped the validity of that statement, I guess, because it really has just continued to be, you know, my understanding of what being gay— but more, I guess, I say now, I say like queer more than gay, just because I think it is such a broader community that I find connection to. And, you know, the first couple years I had a very narrow viewpoint of like what it meant to be gay and what being gay could be. And I think that, that, you know, especially after coming to New York and being able to surround myself with all these different— this entire, you know, a very broad range, a very broad spectrum of the queer experience, it's really just shown me that it's like so much more than just like one thing. Like, it's not just sexuality, it's not just gender. Like, it really, you know, given the opportunity, can permeate every aspect of your life. And yeah, it's just something that I could think in turn I've come to be just be so very grateful for. Like, it's what I love most about myself. So yeah, it's great.

I don't know, I feel like there's like a lot of things that I could probably say I've grown, but I think one of the main ways I've changed in the past few years is like comfort in who I am, or like, I guess, pride, you could say, in who I am. And like a lot of that comes from like watching Connor go through kind of everything he's been through and kind of taking it into my own life and figuring it out. 'Cause I was a very different person, obviously, in 6th grade. And now there, I've learned a lot of new things about myself. And like, I'm happy to say, like, I'm comfortable with all of those aspects. And I don't know if I was ever mad at myself in the beginning. But I was definitely not understanding and being able to look up to Connor in these scenarios was always— like I say, I owe a lot of like who I am to him. Because I just, I watch everyone. And that's, I think, how I've changed a lot. Just by putting different things into practice.

I love that. And I think, you know, not to— I don't know if kudos is the appropriate term because obviously it's just a matter of— but yeah, kudos to like the fact that, you know, you've started this journey that much earlier. And obviously that's like something that's been afforded partially, in fact, by like, you know, I'm glad that I can be a role model, and obviously Mom and Dad and everyone else in our family being incredibly supportive. But like, obviously it's still the, you know, it's impressive that at an even younger age— I'm not gonna do the math right now— but at an earlier age, you were, you know, willing to take that first step. That can be incredibly scary. So yes, just appreciate all of that. What about you, Mom? What, what's been—

I was gonna say, what about the host?

Well, I just want to say something about that too. I think that it has been so much fun to, you know, when I do allow myself to just observe, um, and, and not, you know, get involved or overthink or, you know, do all, do all the things that a mom does. I, I find myself very taken by Well, both of you, but it— in this very specific situation, every opportunity you've had, Gray, to learn— you have watched Connor, you have observed every step. And I think way before any of us realized that you were observing him, um, and that that was kind of your, like, one of your, your, your, I don't know, superpowers, your go-to's. Like, you're very good at, like, kind of taking everything in and then really making very good decisions based on that information that you've gathered. And I— one of the things I always go back to is when you, you know, had the opportunity to go to Compass for those couple of weeks and you would talk to Connor about it, and Connor had said, you know, make the most of it, have an open mind. This is an opportunity. You can either hate it and fight it, or you can take this as an opportunity to learn. And when you, like, just soaked it in— and your maturity is, you know, way beyond your years, not only in the way that you see things and approach things and handle things, but just in your, like, ability to be still and to observe. So That would be my kind of observation of your growth over the past 6 and a half years. Not to say that that maybe wouldn't have happened, um, because I think, you know, that's— pieces of that is inherently who you are. But certainly I think, you know, having— being able to really explore and be comfortable enough to talk about, you know, who you are and, you know, think about it and talk about it with Connor, talk about it with Dad and me and Isabel and Rowan. So, um, I love that. And, and then I just, you know, I go back to this a lot, um, with you, Connor. I know, I think it was— it is the— it's the both/and.

Like, I—

it always does make me sad thinking that you knew for as long as you knew before you said anything. And I'm so grateful that you did when you did. And that, I mean, like, you just, you taking that like one step, like, even though like a million things blew up around it I mean, it completely changed the trajectory of each of our lives and our family. So in a very positive way, eventually, in case y'all didn't get that. Um, yeah, I mean, it's— when I think about, I just get so like, gosh, it is extraordinary to me. And I was even saying today, I was having coffee with Kate, and she was even remarking, you know, having been along this journey with us, like, you know, how I feel and kind of, you know, like Dada just said, like, I would say that's— gosh, it's hard for me to pick one way that I've grown because I feel like I am a vastly different human being than I was 7 years ago. Thank you. But, you know, I was like, I think I get so— for me, I think one of the most exciting things about it is like all of a sudden I had permission to connect to me instead of like connecting outwards, right? So like always trying to be like, oh, well, this is what this person says I should be, or this is what this thing says I need to do. And instead being like, that's all noise and that's not me. Like, I need to listen here. And, and I think that was one of the biggest things that, you know, it's taken time and a lot of work, but I think that's been the biggest growth for me is to be like, this is, this is who I am. This is what I think. This is what I believe. This is my family. Don't mess with them. I think it was always like that, but I mean, I'm really like that now. So watch out.

Love it.

Mama bear.

Yes.

I am officially 20 minutes in and I've already cried.

So that's okay.

Yeah. I don't think we were— we weren't surprised.

Actually, I'm surprised I haven't. I know episode 50, I believe, was the one I was on. Which, by the way, 50 more and I get to come back. At least a number of times between that.

Just have to ask.

He wants you to ask him. He likes that.

He does. I think he's going to retire just so he can be the co-host.

There you go.

No, then I'd have to read books that people wrote.

They're probably all on audio.

Yeah, mom will read them to you.

Right?

I'll read them to you. I'll give you the one-page, like, Cliff Notes version.

Yeah, that's all you need. Oh my gosh.

So if you could just pick one singular thing that you wish you would have known 7 years ago, What would it be?

I can go first, but I have two.

Go crazy.

All right, go nuts. You can do it.

And actually, if you listen to the one episode I was in, I'm sure this was the advice I gave then too. Validation. Validating somebody. It took me— first, it took me a good year to even understand what it meant, but then Years of practice, and I'm pretty decent at it now. But the key was, and I still am a very positive person and very the glass is half full, but I would portray that on every conversation that anybody was having with me. If Connor was struggling, I would tell him the silver lining or, but the bright side is, and I realized, thanks to many of the therapists involved at the beginning, that Connor didn't need me to try to fix it or tell him what was good about it. He just needed me to actually say I, I heard him, I understand him. If I might have some suggestion after, that's fine, but to actually at least just validate what he was feeling and what he was going through. The same one with all of the kids now, and even mom, although that's sometimes the hardest of them.

I just need you to hear me. That's it.

Well, no, I can hear. It's just sometimes I just can't agree. But anyway, so that was the biggest thing that I learned in the process of all of this. And then the other is that, especially for all of the dads out there, and I just thought I was strong enough to not need help. And it, uh, eventually, it eventually became very clear that I did need some help, some therapy, someone to talk to, somebody to just let You know, instead of bottling everything up. And a good 2 years in, I think it was, before I finally agreed. And that was— it was only because things became incredibly clear to me that I couldn't just do this on my own. And I still don't see Ed very often, like very regularly, but it is still great to once a month, whatever it is, just kind of check in and have somebody to bounce things off of. So therapy, professional help is incredibly important.

That is— yeah, I think that's great. I think definitely the destigmatizing of these things that, like, especially at this point in 2023, like, it is such a ridiculous thing to still hold on to some sort of reservation about it in that capacity, that it's like, you know, it's not for, for men, it's not for whatever.

But yeah, or it means you're broken, right?

Right.

Or it means you're weak, or right, all of the different things. So yes, I think that's all of this— it's good to talk about it in a positive way, and so people understand it. I think that A lot of times people don't really understand that. I mean, at the end of the day, it's an objective person who you can say anything to and they're not going to judge you. And it's an objective person outside of your people, right?

Right. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, they have no stake in the whatever.

Exactly.

Um, for me, the biggest thing that I think, you know, I'm really sticking with the branding here, but, um, and I guess I kind of appreciated it to some capacity, to some extent earlier on, but like truly kind of grasping the concept of impermanence Right? Like, you know, that was obviously what I chose to use my first tattoo when I turned 18. And before that it was my, like, this is like what I took from my, my extended therapy session junior year. And, you know, that's, you know, then also what I made my whole like senior project, that's what I titled it. And Yeah, I just like, I don't know, I think especially like in connection to my senior project, because that was something where recently I was in a very retrospective headspace too, because I was just thinking a lot, reflecting a lot about like the experiences that had shaped me and the person I am today. And like, honestly, all the experiences that I could like think of had kind of happened after I came out. So that was obviously something that, like as mentioned, you know, caused a shift in our life paths in some capacity. But like, you know, a lot of the stuff that happened, like there were lots of good and lots of bad that kind of went into it over the past 6, 7 years. But kind of like, I wish I had known from the start that like, or appreciated from the start that like, you know, none of these things are like, their effects are impermanent, the situations themselves are impermanent. Everything kind of like comes to an end and like that's a good thing because I don't know, I think there was just a lot of bad stuff that was going on. It's like being able to appreciate that like this too shall pass would have been comforting because again, like it's not something where like I regret anything that happened or like would do anything differently because it's like led me to the point I'm at today and I'm like very appreciative of that point. But like Yeah, just knowing that it's—

I think that makes a ton of sense, Connor. I think, like, kind of had you, especially early on, really been able to grasp that concept of impermanence, I think that would have been very comforting for you. Yeah, this moment in time is really hard and I'm really struggling, but it is a moment in time. It is not for always.

So, yeah, I love that.

Yeah.

I don't know. I don't know, like, what one thing I would change, I guess, like, from the beginning, or I guess I don't know when, but I would, um, I think I held a lot of anger towards the situation, but I wish I could like remind myself I was 11, 12, you know, so the things that I knew or didn't know were for the best and Yeah, that was a tough thing for me to grasp for a while, I think. I've had many conversations with mom about that. But I definitely see it now. And I don't know, even like if you're going through something where you feel like you're being, like you're not getting all the information like at the same time there might be a good reason, you know. Not that like, there are some scenarios where you should know, but there's also a lot of things are good for you, um, and I didn't need to know everything, so ignorance is bliss.

It really is. Oh my goodness, that is a really, really good one. I love, I love all of that. I think what I would have liked to have known, I would have liked to have been better educated. Like, I would have liked to have known more about how, like, immediately how I could support Connor and, and how to recognize things and how I know this is more than one thing, but it's kind of a general, like, I just, when I think back and I think, you know, all the stuff that I know now, I would take like a fraction of that because I just think that, you know, I look back and I think, oh my goodness, had I known, had we known, right? That just would've made that initial, those initial pieces of the journey so much easier, so much more smooth. Perhaps not quite as scary or anxiety-inducing or all the things. So I think that that is mine and that is also what drives me to do this and to do what I do.

Yeah, I was going to say I wish there were a Just Breathe podcast back then, and I wish, I wish Krystal's mama was around. Would've been a lot easier to get an education on this stuff.

Yeah, that's true.

Yes.

And I think too, like, for, you know, you and I were like, you know, it is definitely something where you're kind of like, I want to learn on my own. Right. I mean, there are a lot of questions where, you know, like we would want to talk about it either together or as a family, but not, not necessarily like in a huge group setting, even though we did that too. But I think that's, you know, one of the things where it's like really nice. Like, had we been able to find, you know, information where we could all just like sit together or be like, here, go, you know, check out this link and, or go listen to this podcast, or, you know, this, this is really great over here. And I, you know, I do also think it's in the past 6, 7 years. There has been so much more information that has been much more readily available. So that is good also, but that would be mine. Okay. So I would love, and I, I think everyone would love to know what advice you would give to either a, a kid coming out to a family who was kind of, you know, way earlier in their journey, what are just words of wisdom? And thinking too, like, sorry, but taking into account kind of where we are today. I mean, not to bring it down, but in a social political sense, like what are the words of of wisdom that you would give, kind of taking that into account as well?

That just got deeper.

Really taking into account in the compact, like, in, like, well, like, as you're giving. So, okay, for example, um, I've been— this is a question I've actually been asking a number of guests recently as, like, kind of the final question of the interview of the show. And I've— one of the things that I found extremely interesting is that at least 2 of them, if not 3, their first thing they have said is, "Make sure that you're safe before you even decide to come out. Make sure that your home is safe, that your environment is safe." And, and I thought that is such a great answer considering, and I think too, like kind of geographically considering where you are. So that is, that is the example that, and I just, I think it is obviously, you know, there's so many pieces, but this is more of like a general, like, you know, if somebody came to you and said, hey, my, my kid just came out, like, can you give any words of wisdom? What would it be?

Got it. Well, Dad, I thought you had something and I cut you off.

You want me to go first? Uh, well, Uh, I can't say that it's changed from, like, with the current environment of society. It's still the same. If you have a gut feeling, trust your gut. Don't just take the easy way out. If you see or sense that something's upsetting your child or affecting your child, and you say, is everything okay? And they say, everything's fine. And you're like, okay, great, now I can leave because I've asked the question, I'm off the hook. If you know something's wrong, dig deeper. Don't let it just go. When you feel like there's something bigger going on?

Okay, Mom.

Love that. Yeah.

I've got a different version of the question for Grace to try to answer. What would— what advice would you give families who have one of the children is coming out or came out, but they have younger siblings, how to handle it with the young— like, what advice do you give to, to handle with the younger siblings? When do you tell them? Do you feel like there was a right and wrong for the way we explained everything to you?

I mean, obviously I think it's up to the person that is queer or whatever they are. And like, they can come out kind of whenever, like, it feels right to them. And I mean, I can't really speak for Rowan. I think the way that you guys did it was like handled really well. I don't think I'll ever forget that tea shop. I think at that point, I think at least I knew something like that. I knew there was something that I didn't know that you guys did know. So at that point, when you start to realize that, like, there's an age where they— where we are starting to understand, and if the person who is the one coming out is comfortable with it, letting them know, like the younger kids know as soon as possible, or trying to start educating them as soon as possible. Will, you know, make it an easier transition. And I think educating is always, even if there isn't a another queer sibling in the house, educate your children. Because just from a very young age, it should be something that's taught as if it's like learning your alphabet, learning your colors, anything like that. There shouldn't be much of like a difference. And that makes it so much less of a, like a burden or a process to come out or to explain when it's like I mean, Rowan, like no one comes out to me as straight. So it's like, you wouldn't really have to have a coming out if they already have everything kind of intertwined, I guess.

Very well articulated. Yeah, I agree. And I think, you know, I think there is that element of like, yeah, like it should be this way. And like, there's absolutely no Trying to tie a moral or ethical or political connotation to sexuality and gender in the way that it has in today's world, I think obviously skews it in a way that Grace and I didn't grow up in a place where we were really confronted with that. I think we objectively are quite fortunate to grow up in the place that we grew up. Yes, there are still some bad eggs, but that can be said about anywhere. But like generally speaking, a pretty blue area. And now I've moved to, you know, one of the gayest places in the world. So, you know, my perspective, I personally come from, and I think Grace, I can kind of say sort of as well, come from like perspectives of not really having that outside, being very fortunate to not have to deal with that outside factor of, well, you know, what if people in my school or people in my neighborhood or people in my household are actively against queer people as a political ideology. And therefore, with all of today's politics, that has obviously much darker implications, scarier implications. And that's why, yeah, like what you had said originally about there being a— sorry, I know we're running short on time. But there being, you know, making sure you're safe is obviously first priority. But I would say for like me coming from a place of like being very lucky and having a very different experience, having, I think it's important for there to be a balance and like, I guess boundaries for, or like respecting the person who's coming out, like, Just like boundaries with relation to sexuality, just because it is something that is so deeply personal that like, while there is absolutely an aspect of like, how does this impact the family? How does this impact our relationships? First, I think has to come like a very core understanding of that person's like relationships themselves. And I think it can be really hard to articulate anything outside of that before. So. Yeah, just like, you know, recognizing that it's like, it is their process. You know, it's their— they'll do it at their pace and like, you can't really force it. So yeah.

Yeah, totally.

So I think kind of to your point, Connor, and actually both to what you and Grace said, which I really, really like, Because I typically, when people ask me this question, when I'm being interviewed, the answer that I will often give, because it's often asked as, what is your advice to parents and parents who just had a child come out? And my answer is typically make sure they know they are loved unconditionally. Love this kid no matter what. Um, But there's so much more to that that I always kind of want to add. But, you know, I typically am like trying to, you know, you got to start somewhere and then go. And one of the things that really has— I've been thinking about a lot lately is be willing to be uncomfortable, be— to have either the uncomfortable conversations, to your point just now about Respecting the boundaries like that is, that's uncomfortable for a parent to not know everything and to know when you've hit that boundary and to back off. And that takes a little bit of practice and that, that is uncomfortable. So be uncomfortable, right? Be uncomfortable to what you said, Steve, to, to when you know something is wrong, The easy thing is to just, okay, well, I asked. Okay, I'm done now. Check. Done. I did, I did it. Your gut, as we learned, all of us, your intuition will— does not stop. It just gets louder and more annoying and shows up in a thousand different ways telling you there's something going on. And it gets progressively more uncomfortable, right? So embrace that being uncomfortable and, and ask those questions that you may feel like, oh, I don't want to ask this, but you need to ask or bring up the conversations. Because I, you know, I know one of the things early on, had we been able to have conversations in our house in a way that was so much more open and just easy about sex, right? There would have been so many questions that would have been, you know, answered for you earlier on and, and for everyone earlier on. And, and we would have learned things that we needed to know earlier on had we been willing to be uncomfortable way earlier, right? So just get comfortable with being uncomfortable. It's awesome.

Settle into the chaos.

Battle into the chaos. That's right.

Exactly.

Was that, was that number 2 or number 3?

Uh, the third. Yes, they got to New York.

Yeah.

Oh, but yes, I agree.

So as we kind of finish up, is there anything that either of you just kind of want to throw out there as a, either reflection or a celebration, or— I mean, let's just wait quick before, before either of you weigh in. Um, we just talk about for the fact, the, the fact that, um, you just graduated. We've not talked about that yet on the podcast. Um, so this is exciting.

Cum laude with honors.

Yes, laude with honors from NYU. With a career that I have personally named motion graphics engineering, but that is so not what it's called. Connor, can you—

It's, yeah, it kind of gets the gist of it, right? Interactive design and media.

I have it on a Post-it over here.

That's what I know. That's a lot of adjectives. And yeah, well, hopefully got a motion design job. Currently unemployed, which sends shivers down Dad's spine. If any listeners are in the market for motion graphics, just any job, just, you know, throw it my way.

Uber talented. I mean, let me know, I will send you his portfolio. Yeah, Steve and I are actively sending it to as many people as We can't. It is— he is incredibly talented, and, and I'm not just saying that because I'm his mom.

So, and just like, first, he does all of the video work for Heather Hester Painting and Decorating. Yeah, go to our website, you'll see.

I'm plugging everything now. We've gotten all the plugs. This is good. We'll put a link in the description.

Yes, there'll be a link in the show notes. For everything mentioned today.

Oh my goodness.

So anyways, and then while we're in the celebrating people mode, I would like to celebrate you, Heather Hester. This is amazing what you've put together over these 4 years or whatever it's been. The podcast is incredible. 100 is amazing. The book that you're writing is going to be amazing. Everything you do, I am incredibly proud of, and you should be celebrated for everything you've done to help parents, families, teens that are coming out, the whole process. It's, it's incredible.

Couldn't have said it better myself.

Like you had that written down.

Good thing you recorded it.

Yeah.

I'm just going to play that over and over again.

There you go.

I know. Thanks.

Yeah, 100 is huge.

Right?

Very exciting.

Extraordinary.

Can't wait for 200.

Right?

Well, it'll come a lot faster now that I'm doing weekly episodes.

That might be the next one I'm invited onto.

Oh my goodness, Connor.

No, you're not going to be there until 500.

Sorry, I'm gonna have Connor on at least 3 more times before you get to come in.

The reviews have come in and they want no more Steve.

I'll do a poll.

Yeah, the focus group said cut the dad, he cries a lot.

Oh my goodness. Oh my goodness. So, all right, so anything, anything else to that you just want to add at the to close us up, to finish off this amazing episode that I'm so delighted to put out there.

That is it. Thanks for listening.

Yeah, thank you for listening. Yeah, thank you for having us on and asking for our opinion on these things.

Yeah, thanks for caring enough about your family to listen.

Yes, yes.

Oh, there we go. Look at that. Oh my God. Well, thank you both for being, being here because you are fan favorites. And, um, and I love the opportunity to actually see you, Connor, because, um, just so everybody knows, Connor does not do FaceTime. He does phone.

Yeah, absolutely not.

I, um, get to see his gorgeous face every few months now, and I miss it. So this is great for me. And no, I just appreciate you both taking time out of your days and being a part of this podcast, because if it weren't for you, this would not be here. So thank you.

My utmost pleasure. Thank you for wanted me to be a part of it.

Okay, love you.

Thank you for listening today. If you enjoyed this episode, share it. You can also catch episodes on my YouTube channel at Chrysalis Mama 9499. And if you're interested in my raw thoughts on today's most pressing topics. You can find me on TikTok @chrysalismama. If you're looking for more support, come join us in the Just Breathe community. Text BREATHE to 847-881-3324 to learn more. And remember that you are not alone on this journey. Until next time.