#107 | Healing Through Breath (LGBTQ Allyship, Courage & Somatic Parenting Guidance)

Welcome back to Just Breathe. I am delighted as always to have you here with me, and, uh, today once again I get to give you the gift of a really, really in-depth, intense conversation that I got to have with a human being who is doing something in the world that is just absolutely so unique and who is showing up in such an authentic way. And as parents and parents of LGBTQ+ kids, I just in this conversation learned so much from talking with them, and I know that you will too. So I'm really, really excited to introduce to you Jen Murray, who is the founder of the High Vibe Healing Collective, using their lived experiences as a white-bodied, queer, loving mama to breathe new ways of being and belonging. They emphasize inclusivity and conscious co-creation of embodied wellness, uplifting LGBTQ+ communities, and inspiring heart-aligned leadership for a more justice-oriented world. Jen sparks joy-filled, loving, cosmically divine communities with a passion for social justice and accountability. And I know after an introduction like that, you're probably just like, holy cow, who is this person? Well, here they are. I am so, so excited to introduce Jen Murray.

Welcome to Just Breathe: Parenting Your LGBTQ Teen, the podcast transforming the conversation around loving and raising an LGBTQ child. My name is Heather Hester, and I am so grateful you are here. I want you to take a deep breath and know that for the time we are together, you are in the safety of the Just Breathe nest. Whether today's show is an amazing guest, or me sharing stories, resources, strategies, or lessons I've learned along our journey, I want you to feel like we're just hanging out at a coffee shop having a cozy chat. Most of all, I want you to remember that wherever you are on this journey right now, in this moment in time, you are not alone.

Jen, I am so delighted that you are here. I have been looking so forward to this conversation and have so many, so many questions. We've been chatting before we pushed record and oh my goodness, I'm just thrilled for you all to listen to this conversation because Jen is so cool and has absolutely like the most amazing background. And what you do now is so unique. I can't imagine that there's anybody else that does this. I mean, it is so specific and so interesting. So I would love, love, love actually just to start kind of start at the beginning and what you, what you did, how you got to where you are now.

Thanks, Heather. I'm so honored to be here, and it's just, yeah, truly a pleasure to be in connection with someone who is creating presence for LGBTQ+ communities and also really elevating and supporting people in parenting in very intentional ways. And so I, I just highly value what you are doing as a breathworker and somebody who is just Immediately enamored and enthralled with the very title of this podcast, Just Breathe. I really believe that it is the breath and the time that we take our first breath when we enter this world that really sets us up for what we're gonna breathe into the purpose of our lives until we take our final breath and depart from this, uh, earthly plane and the earthly vessels that we're embodying. And so I, um, I am Jen Murray, and I am using the pronouns they/them/theirs. And I am someone who has entered into this work through lifelong learning adventures. So I am someone who was in the sphere and place of education for the majority of my prior life career. And I took the leap in 2021 to come out of a 21-year career and really venture into this dance and delight with entrepreneurial life as a, as a coach and a consultant and someone who is really helping people to connect to their heart, breathe belonging, and abide elementally to the way in which they can be more conscious and present in the, in the way in which they are breathing new possibilities and new ways of being in this world. And so Yeah, it's a real honor to be here and to be working with ambitious leaders, parents, and people who are heart-aligned and energetically interested in elevating toward dignity and humanity. So I'm excited for our conversation.

I love that. I am too. I am too. So you spent 17, 17 years, right? That's what you said. And the DEIB space. And working in the university spaces and corporate spaces, organizational spaces. And what about doing that type of work? What did you love about that type of work? And, and what did you kind of ultimately decide, this is such important work that I want to take everything that I've learned here and move it into this next space? Yeah.

So when I conceived of the High Vibe Healing Collective, which is what I am the founder of, and I use CEO very intentionally, I like to say that I'm centered, meaning I'm grounded and rooted in knowing where I come from. And in that, I give a nod to Kai Cheng Thom, who's one of my mentors and teachers in the somatic attachment therapy certification that I went through. And She offers us to think about acknowledging the places and spaces where we've been and where we are and where we're living and occupying, to be in a connection to like unpacking and unlearning and relearning what it is that that space and place means. And so I know that you had mentioned to me the power of some of how I've shown up in communities that we've been able to share space in. And I talked about really committing to creating expansion and heart alignment and energetic amplification of what I would say are regenerative, sustainable resource creation and co-creation very deliberately with communities. And that I do that as, as connecting in from the unceded territory and the stolen traditional lands of the Potawatomi, Ho-Chunk, Menominee, and the homelands along the Southwest west shores of Michigamme, which is North America's largest system of freshwater lakes. And it's where the Milwaukee, Menominee, and Kinnickinnic rivers meet, and people of Wisconsin sovereign Anishinaabe, Ho-Chunk, Menominee, Oneida, and Mohican nations remain present. And the Electra Quinney Institute at the University of Wisconsin-Milwaukee created that beautiful land acknowledgement. But I think that the power of understanding land, where we are embodied in this world, and then also connecting in to the rhythms of nature and the cosmos really is what took me into the journey from being in a place where there was knowledge exchange and a really, really intentional presence to create community and foster a sense of belonging. And I felt like that was really needed in spaces where we collectively heal. And we cultivate well-being within ourselves, but most importantly, I think within the loved ones who are surrounding us. And so I think like oftentimes we need to breathe belonging into ourselves in order to breathe belonging into the collective. And with that, I would also offer that there's an intentionality to like look at kind of when we take our first breath, like where the planets and the stars are aligned and understand how that's really relational and draw upon Indigenous wisdom, ancient futures, ancient technologies to truly look at what we've mapped into our own family constellation. And so in the pandemic times, as I was home. My loving intimate partner, as I'm a queer loving mama and partnered with a beautiful person who is in healthcare, was out of our house and I was at home with two children who at the time were 4 and 8. And I was, you know, flying solo and holding down three different roles and responsibilities within the workplace that I was in. And I was realizing that, like, I was losing touch with my parenting, and I was really fearing for how I was failing my children because I couldn't even really show up for myself. And so I dove really deep into understanding my own natal chart and my own birth chart and the constellations and the planets. And then I started to look at my relationship with my children and how I could show up as a better parent, looking at our birth charts and breathing with one another, whether it was an appreciation practice or in a, you know, meditation mindfulness moment. And so anyhow, I offer those pieces to sort of say to you that, like, I think that I've had this beautiful journey that's been long and winding, but it's always been something that's held an element of queerness and one that's like not conforming to mainstream society, but really truly embracing what it means to be what it means to be showing up from our heart, fully expressed, right?

Well, and I think I'm, I'm kind of, I'm in awe as I'm listening to you say all of this because you really have, even though I know there's been a ton of deep work in all of these pieces, you have stayed connected to yourself, to you, and in all of that, and then have just kind of like relooked at it, right? And gone deeper and then got— right? And I think that is so— there's such power in that, especially, especially when we are parenting. And because it's difficult to do, it's difficult to do anytime, but especially when you're parenting. And so I, I'm really just, I, I love that you did that and you took the time. So I'm curious because there are so many different paths that you could have taken and, and I find it fascinating that, um, one was the somatic teachings, you know, learning the somatic, working with a somatic teacher, and then another was the working with astrology. And I mean, those are two very different things. I mean, they are interconnected, but they are different things. And then, I mean, there are like a million other choices that you could have made. So what about those two ways of being in the world and understanding who you intrinsically are? What was the attraction?

Yeah, so I, I'm an earth sign, um, in my, in my, uh, star sign of the Sun, and I am a double air. And so I actually chose breathwork and somatics to be really integrated. But I'm also someone who has been a nationally board-certified massage therapist for 20+ years and also have been engaged in kind of these healing practices that really look at like what I would call holistic or collective holism, like looking at the wholeness and the health and the well-being of being a person. So I always I want people to be able to show up as their full selves or their whole selves, and that doesn't always happen in workplace environments. And so I think that because of my deep interest in sort of elemental ways of being and understanding, for example, with my child who has a beautiful fiery moon and my air moon, you know, we dance together in a really magical way. And the collective skies hold that for us on some days where we can actually like have the embers be burning in a sustainable and lovely way. And then there are other days where perhaps maybe my communication shows up as blowing on the fire and making it slightly explosive. And so I bring that forward to sort of say that I think that like those are all experiences that like are maybe out in the world, but they are mirrored within ourselves and in the body too. And so that inner nature wisdom, for me, the breath, is the vehicle and the modality that is both conscious and unconscious. It's the only system in our body that we, that we operate with both consciously and unconsciously. And so for me, it's like breathing between kind of this like space and place that I lived in for many, many moons, which was the, the places of education, and where the mind is highly stimulated. And we're talking about like the mental body operating pretty rapidly and furiously. And And then I think that like being in a place where the breath was connecting me back into my body with the heart and really understanding like, where is it that my heart gets to align to show up as the best parent I can possibly be, as the greatest leader I, that I can embody, and also really consciously show up as someone who's a revolutionary, an evolutionary, and a visionary in the work that I do, because I want us to be breathing new ways of being and belonging in our world.

I love that. I love that. And I, as I'm listening to you say this, I'm thinking there are so many people who don't, don't understand that.

Yeah.

And I'm thinking that as a person who, you know, has gone through extraordinary changes and evolution and You know, when I go back and I oftentimes will kind of do that like check-in, like this is when I'm feeling, let's say I'm just having a day and then I like do a check-in. I'm like, okay, no, this is how far you've come, right? Like this is, and so kind of when I go back into that mental space that I perhaps occupied or that person that I was, let's say 10 years ago, had you said all of these things to me then, I would have been like, what on earth? Like, I would have been incredibly intrigued, but I would have had no idea what you were talking about. And so I love that it is something that— this is why I think it's so important to talk about and to teach, because these are, these are such simple, you know, the breath, for instance. Like, let's just bring it there because that is something that's so we both talk about, and it is like the easiest go-to, right? When you're— you can do it anywhere. You need to ground, you need to calm, you need to, you know, give yourself a moment. Everyone can do that, right? Everyone can connect to that, that piece. And then that leads to like going deeper and connecting with these other— and I think it's just one of those— I think it initially depending on kind of what your prior background or your prior programming was, um, maybe a little more difficult to tap into. But once you allow your brain to do that, oh my goodness, I mean, just listening to you talk about how it makes perfect sense that this is why you would do this.

Right?

Because you have the knowledge of your birth sign. So, I mean, it just makes so much sense. And it is kind of going back to the other— I know I'm talking in circles, my apologies, but I'm like putting this all together as we're talking— kind of the ancient wisdom that we all, you know, we now have the opportunity. We've always had the opportunity, but now we really have the technology and therefore the opportunity to, to learn and to understand and to really be like, oh my gosh, like, I have all of this available to me and this is really exciting. This is so exciting. And so I would love to take a moment We did something before. I'm just going to share a little bit about this. I came into this conversation with Jen and told them about an interview and discussion that I had that really kind of threw me off. And we spent the first, you know, 20 minutes talking about this. And ultimately you got me into the space of breathing and connecting and really understanding. And it was this— it was so lovely. And I think that For me, that was like such a beautiful illustration of just a window of the work that you do. I got a little, a little glimpse, a little practice of it. But for someone that would want to come and wants to work with you and says, oh, this just feels right, because I think it's a lot of times we just are guided by like, this feels right. I'm not sure, I don't, I don't have the vocabulary or I don't know how to articulate this, but feels good. So I'm gonna come talk to this person, right? I'm drawn to them. So somebody came to you and just said that, like, what would you— how would you respond? And what would you suggest? And what would you do?

It's a great question. So in a lot of my one-on-one client work, I'm working with people in what I would consider to be an astrologically energetic coach. And what I'm doing is I'm helping people to realign themselves to their energetic unconditional presence, because I believe that we're in a world where we're frequently distracted, oftentimes disconnected, and we frankly don't feel, and we don't even know what it is that we want or what we desire because we're being fed in so many different directions, whether it's through social media or in our past narratives we're rehearsing and, and revisiting drama or trauma that we've experienced in life, and we aren't ever really able to like find that simple connection to our breath and that care and that point of what I would say is self-sustenance practice. So like a way for us to actually sustain ourself and our well-being, particularly as parents or leaders in our— of teams when we are working with people and we're in a place where we're continuously relational. We need to be able to like have that opportunity to slow down and really find the possibilities in being present. And that to me is brought to us through the breath. And the breath is that language of consciousness and that connection between our heart and our mind that's helping us to like find the bodily wisdom. And, and the way I like to talk about it is our inner nature wisdom, so that when we're, when we're accessing that inner nature wisdom, the breath is our own medicine. There is nobody else. And many of my breathwork teachers will say breath is medicine, and breath is our own medicine. It's the only medicine that we have for ourselves, and no one can take it away from us. And there's no, like, there's no wrong way to breathe. I like to say to people that, like, you have full agency. And so when someone comes to me and they're in a state much like we— you, you experienced with me today, um, it's an opportunity to just, like, slow down and feel into our body where it is that the breath needs to be sent, because we can then move from the unconscious operating system of the breath automatically happening without our thought and take that opportunity to shift it into the conscious connected breath. And so when I work with my one-on-one clients, I frequently have them involved or engaged with me for a series of at least 3 sessions. Based upon what they're looking for. But I work to have them breathe with me, and if they don't have the access and the capital and the time to be able to breathe with me individually, then I invite them into a community container where we breathe. And it's all a virtual offering and opportunity. And so they're typically breathing into their own elements of being and getting connected to what does it look like for me to be, especially in a world where we're constantly bombarded with doing. Like I have to do. It's to-do list after to-do list. It's checking things off. I have everybody asking me to do something, especially when we're parents. You know, our children are reliant upon us for doing things. And so the idea of inviting somebody in to be more connected to their being state and more aligned with what it means for them to be present first to themselves so that then they can show up more present to their parenting. And then I typically will offer to read their natal chart, um, after we've done some breathwork together, because I say to them that it's really important for them to understand where they can breathe more intentionally and consciously, following the collective skies and also honoring the kind of the planetary and star purpose that was what was planted in them. When they entered this world. And so I think that the beauty, in my opinion, of kind of this process is that like once they have had their own natal chart reading, um, with their, with their child's permission or with their desire to like see and learn more about how they might show up better as a parent or how they might be able to better relate to their child, I think a lot of times we lose what it is our children are here to share with us. And being like, they're all little teachers. I think that each child comes into our life really in a way that they've chosen to be with us. One of the astrologers that I followed has said they come down the rainbow bridge and they choose to be in our families. And I think that it's really a concept that's within LGBTQ+ communities, and it's this notion of chosen family. It's this place of like, when we look at our astrology and we look at our breath, we're actually choosing to consciously be here and be present to living in a way that's most heart-expressed and most authentic. And so I think that those are the ways in which I have people offering, working with me from one-on-one possibilities to group offerings. And yeah, and you can find me through the High Vibe Healing Collective. And so it's highvibehealingcollective.com is my company.

Well, I will definitely share all of that information, so it'll be very easy for you all to just click, click right through and find John. I am— I do want to talk a little bit more though about, uh, just this idea of being present and being aware, because I think that, that awareness piece is huge. And it's something that, again, I think because of all the reasons that you mentioned, so much of our time could, could easily be spent on autopilot and kind of a frenetic autopilot, right? And so What a gift is this idea of becoming aware and then being. And I love that you brought that up and you said it several times and I was sitting here like kind of stunned because I was just doing some writing earlier today and I was writing the difference, you know, talking about the difference between doing and being.

Hey, love.

It's like, yes, that is exactly—

yes.

But making— I mean, this is, this is work that you're talking about, and it's conscious work, which can be difficult to do. So I, I do kind of want to talk about that a little bit. Not that I want to say, oh my gosh, this is going to be so hard, but I think oftentimes people get discouraged because it is it can be difficult, or it can't— it's not something that just automatically happens. Like, I decide I'm going to be present and I'm present. So what are some of the ways that you encourage the people that you work with to kind of, um, either— is it to create some kind of routine? Is it to, you know, how to kind of work through that, to create, to build that muscle, the awareness muscle and the, the being present muscle?

Yeah, so I would say that, like, again, I return to the breath because for me, the breath is something that it can be a daily hygiene practice where you're just having a, you know, folks are oftentimes familiar with things like the box breath where you're counting to the, you know, you're doing a count of 4 and then holding for a count of 4 and then you're letting go for a count of 4 and holding out for a count of 4. And there are different tools and techniques that might be a little bit more prescribed. But I think that when we sit and listen to our own breath, our breath oftentimes guides us into our own understanding of what it means to be present and how we can actually ground into presence. I've realized, as I shared earlier, I started to talk to you about being centered, grounded, and rooted. And that's the first letter of CEO, but I never finished the final two. I think they're really important. So I'm like, wow, please do. Yes, I interrupted myself. That's pretty funny. So there's a, there's a like moment of like not being as present as I maybe wanted to be. But the E for me is energetic, and it's really about being in energetic exchanges. And everything that we do is energy in motion. And everything that we be is also energy in motion. And energy in motion is just a short way of saying emotion. So we have a lot of feelings, and the way in which we feel to heal is really critical, coming out of the E with energetic. So I'm a centered and energetic. And then the last part for me is O, and I say this as a queer-loving mama who consciously and intentionally brought two humans into the world and because I created my family in such a way where we brought children into the world. And I am getting to be committed to having an active sense of hope because I believe that optimism is the O. And I want there to be a possibility in the future where people are celebrated and honored and feel a sense of belonging. To the world from the minute that they enter it with their very first breath. And I want people to feel that sense of love and compassion and unconditional love and unconditional presence in their lives so that they know that they can be all of who they are without hesitation and without reservation. As someone who took a long time to come out, so I, you know, was in I was in my college years before I came into sharing and naming and claiming who I was. And then I worked for 17+ years coaching thousands of young people around being LGBTQ+ identified. And in those experiences of being in a place and a space where I lived like sort of a double life and I lived a life where I wasn't fully honest and truthful, it became essential for me to be completely honest and fully truthful and totally authentic in my expression. And so I'm going back now after giving you what the CEO is to just remind people that like your breath is going to actually help you to understand how it is you can show up as a more loving and compassionate parent, how it is you can be more equitable and just in your approach to leadership. How it is that you can enter into your communities with more intention and attention to like energetically exchanging in ways that are life-giving and life-affirming. And so I just invite people into working with the breath first and foremost, and then having them dance with whatever element feels most alive in them. So that could be that it's like they want to spark joy and they really want to ignite something. And I jokingly have always referred to myself as the joy generator, generator spelled J-E-N, generator. And I also have said that I'm part of Gen X, which is J-E-N-X. So as a person who's in Generation X and a joy generator, I think that maybe it's people wanting to spark those flames or reignite a part of them that got lost and be able to be more creative. Or perhaps it's like someone being in the cleansing and purifying waters and really feeling to heal those emotions that maybe got trapped in their body and didn't get a chance to actually get seen. And that could be something as simple and as beautiful that I think is very relatable to like not feeling like I can speak my truth and feeling like something has landed in my heart and it's paining me and it's creating the sorrow. And as I mentioned to you before we started the recording, you know, one of, one of my teachers in the somatic practice world spoke about really tears are just the oceans And they are just our connection and reconnection to being with the oceans and the waters that we were created in. So we are oftentimes entering the world by being in, you know, a 9-month time period in waters. And in those waters, we like rebirth ourselves every time we allow ourselves to freely flow with our energy of the water element and our tears and our sadness. And our tears can be tears of joy. And so like maybe it's the water element that is drawing someone, or it could be the air element, and that's, you know, processing through words and/or through the very breath that we've been speaking of. And finally, I would say that sometimes it's the earth element, and that's just connecting to like gardening or growing something or doing something that is like of this earth and feels like you're connected into the embodiment that you are. And so it could be something as simple as feeling your toes on the ground and doing some grounding or earthing practice. But I think it's finding what is it that is the elemental and astrological aligned heart practice that will really keep you in a state of being present to your own possibilities, right?

Right. And having that to be able to go back to, right, when you start to feel all the things that you start to feel, right, that when you are floaty or spinny or whatever word that you want to use that's not really a word. And, and so the thing that can bring you back there, what brings you back there? And, um, and I, you know, like you, I agree the breath is always involved. It was very intentional that I named podcast, Just Breathe, because that is the one thing we can all do, right? And, and then, you know, then we go from there.

And, and I, I might, if I may offer, Heather, I want to share one quick piece because I think the just, the, the just breathe is so critical. And sometimes it's just, it's just reminding ourselves that we can like the things that we feel like we don't— can't control. Breath is one of them that we can control and won't harm anyone else. And the only way that you do breathe wrong is if you stop breathing, because that means that you will no longer be living. So like, that's the only time in which I would say that, like, you know, where— when we feel like things, like you said, are maybe spiraling or feeling like they're not within in a space and a place where we're rooted and grounded and centered in where we are, need to be. I think that the breath helps us to just remember that we are both conscious and unconscious in a lot of the ways in which we operate, whether it's as a parent or as a sibling or as a leader of a company or someone who's, you know, facilitating a team. All of us are able to access our innovative and creative potential through the breath. And so that's where I think of like the practice that I use is actually Conscious Connected Breathing, and it's a breath practice that's actually no pause at the top and no pause at the bottom. And it's really critical in particular for me as an LGBTQ+ person to think about that unification and no longer living a double life. And what does it feel like to have that integration, even if it's only within myself, because I'm not in a place where I feel safe enough or where I feel like I can be, where I trust people to honor and affirm me for being all of who I am. And so I think it's really important that like the breath be the gift that can be happening in the quiet stillness and the silence and then the spaces where it's completely and totally serene and peaceful, and also in like the mass chaos or in the moments where it's like you're feeling overwhelmed and anxious and burdened by or suffering in life. It's like the breath is just there as a gentle reminder that it's always with you and it's always something you can access and no one else can take that away from you. And it's something you have full agency over in all of your, in all of your ways in which you engage in the world.

Right. Right. And I also, you know, kind of just building on that because this is something that I find also fascinating in that our breath is the way that we are breathing can give so much information. So thinking about the times when you said, you know, if you're not breathing, well, a lot of times I've learned that if I am there's a particular topic that if I'm talking about it or if I'm kind of working through it, I stop breathing.

I like—

and, you know, the person that I'm— my therapist will be like, you need to start breathing again. Like, she's watching me and she's like, you haven't taken a breath for like a minute and a half. You need to breathe. And I don't even realize it in the time, right? Because that is how I'm working. Or, you know, you think about the times that you're breathing really fast because you're, you know, anxious about something, right? Like, the breath gives so much information that then we can take that information and, and use that to kind of reverse whatever is going on. And it's just such a cool— it's just such a beautiful thing that our body does for us that is available to us.

So absolutely, absolutely. And, and I would say too that it's like the possibilities are endless within your own breath, and that there's an infinite number of ways in which you can breathe. And it might be holding, but it's also just observing and noticing, like, when I'm holding, am I holding so that I actually listen more deeply to, like, my own intuition or my own bodily wisdom? Or am I holding because I'm in a pattern of fear or something that is, like, activated of a past sense or way of being, or am I projecting into a future way as opposed to truly being in that moment? And that's where it goes back to the presence piece, where it's the breath keeps us here in this moment, right? It doesn't allow for us to be in a future state or in a past drama, right? And instead what it does is it like honors our being here and now with whatever is arising. And I think that that's like the practice of mindfulness, it's the practice of breath, and it's the wisdom that like is, I think, across, across many ancient traditions and cultures. And I think it's a tool that our ancestors used in their way of being able to understand how it is that we can engage more fully and more completely in the world, and in ways that like actually do innovate and create possibilities that are beyond our wildest imaginations.

100%. Oh my goodness. I mean, just, it is, it's endless. The possibilities are endless when you stop And that is the other, you know, it's the gift of that pause. Yes, being connected to your breath allows you to pause. It allows that moment, um, and or those moments. So powerful and so easy and accessible, right? It is truly one of the greatest gifts we can give give ourselves.

Yeah. And I, and you know, I, I know your audience will appreciate just knowing that, like, I think the beauty of the work that, um, they're all engaged in right now is they are breathing new possibilities for future generations by being present to listening in to some of the like amazing revolutionaries and evolutionaries who you've brought through to talk not only philosophy and/or about the breath or about gender, but I think that there's a lot to be said about what does it look like to support a young person in their evolution and in their development in a way that like sees them for who they are in this moment. No need to like go back to who they were yesterday or who they might become tomorrow, but rather really show up for them just right now with a fierce and unconditional love that's revolutionarily oriented in a way of like honoring like their heart. Because I think when people get seen in who they are in that moment and honored and affirmed and being that expression, I fully like believe that people have an opportunity to just impact and give in and contribute to the world in ways that are just limitless. And, and they, because they get an opportunity. And I, and I say that, you know, as someone who had loving parents who supported me in being me. And, you know, they even, we like to joke, um, my, my wife and I, um, both have, and we call each other loving intimate partners, but my loving intimate partner and I both have heterosexual partnered siblings. And we were the first of our family to actually procreate and bring grandchildren into our parents' lives. And I think that it's a really important message because I think a lot of times there's fear around what will this mean for my child being able to have children or for them to be able to gain some of the experiences that we have had as parents. And I think it's really so important as someone who, like, people would say, like, it would have been maybe more difficult or more challenging for us to have a family, but like, we created a family very intentionally and very consciously because we believe that there is a greater possibility for what the future holds as we become more connected to the rhythms of nature and like aligned with the way in which our planet needs us to care for it, as well as, as we become more open to fostering a sense of belonging and truly helping people to live in, live in and out of their heart with unconditional love and a presence that I think is only, only really available by breathing, like, through what seems like, oh, this is never going to happen. I mean, because it's like there could be a crisis after a crisis after a drama after a trauma, and all of those are very real, and they get to be experienced fully and completely. And when we're ready, we take another breath and we remember that we can bring in something that's fresh and a new perspective, and we can let go of what's stagnant and old and no longer serving us. And so those are the things that I think your community will appreciate hearing from me as someone who's a queer loving mama and connected to elevating parents and being more intentional and more purposeful in their parenting, especially for those of us who have a fear of messing up. So I mean, I will say that my children are the greatest reminders in my life that I cursed a lot. I cursed a lot during the pandemic times as I worked remotely from home. And so I'm working to like change things. Like banana split has become my new curse word. And I just say like banana split if something seems like sort of wild and not of this earthly endeavor. So anyhow, I mentioned that to say that I typically would, I would throw an F-bomb into like, you know, but I know that since we're listening with parents and we don't know the age of the children, I'll just not, I won't put any expletives in there. But I do think that like as a parent who was on a journey and really feared messing up and really feared for how I was showing up with my kids, especially in the times where my loving intimate partner was away in healthcare, and I was the solo parent home, and I felt very torn about the way in which I, like, resorted to anger, or I resorted to, like, yelling and things that, like, I just never imagined myself, uh, engaging in as a parent. But it was, like, coming almost like a natural habit, and I disrupted it by really starting to understand my children's charts and how they needed to be emotionally nurtured and how they wanted to, like, receive feedback and how they needed to be listened to. And it wasn't always natural for me, but it became a practice, and it was a practice of presence. And it just brings me back to like how important the breath was in those practice moments, because I certainly had my fair share of, um, of messing up, uh, amidst all of that. Yes.

Well, and I think that is such an important thing to share because we all mess up, and I think that We don't talk about messing up enough. We don't talk about just being human and, and the importance of being human in front of our children, because that is as equally important to model being a human being as it is to model, you know, the behaviors that you'd like for them to, to pick up on, right? Like whatever that is that you're— whatever your, your family's values are that you're teaching, it's also important for them to see you, you know, drop an F-bomb, or, right? I mean, I will tell you, just speak and giggle, because I did not swear in front of my kids probably until the pandemic. Gosh, I'm laughing. I'm like, we switched places. And it probably was before that, actually, probably when all of this stuff started happening, you know, with Connor. Connor's coming out was like the great shift for all of us. But, you know, we giggle now. Like, even my coffee cup this morning had a swear word on it, and my 15-year-old was like, "Mom, that is not modeling good behavior." But I mean, we laugh, right? He's 15, and I would be delusional to think that that is not a word that he was using with his buddies on the Xbox. So I think it's one of those lovely— the fact that we can talk about it and talk about when it's maybe appropriate and not appropriate, right? And have those, like, very real conversations, to me, That's like the gift of this, right? So we get to be human and we get to be like, yeah, we as parents totally screw up like every single day. That is part of this human experience and we can talk about it and we can apologize if our screwing up has affected you in a negative way, which is one of my favorite things to do now is to you know, I'm really sorry that I yelled at you for no reason, or had, you know, I did not have the patience that I wish I would have had in that moment. I apologize, right? And learning to do the correct— I could— this is what— and I— you will love this. My husband, for years, his apology would always be, I'm sorry if which gives me a little twitch. And I, for the longest time, didn't understand why it bothered me so much. And then I learned the language, right? And now he understands. So it's like a joke, but it is that like catching those little tiny things, right? And teaching those little tiny things like your language matters, the words you use matter. Being attuned to another's, not just what they're saying to you, but what their body is saying to you. What is their body language saying, right? And so all to say, these lovely, lovely gifts that just being real in our parenting and accepting that we are going to mess up.

Yes. I appreciate that so much. You know, I've done a lot of diversity, equity, inclusion, and belonging work, as we referenced earlier, and, and, you know, a lot of white accountability. So as a white, a white woman and white-bodied woman, I would say that like there's a lot to be said about the way in which I have deeply been honored by the gift of feedback from communities that I've been connected to when it comes to understanding the unlearning of white supremacy culture and the tenets of white supremacy culture. And those are oftentimes needing to get it right, wanting to look good, perfectionism. And there are many more. And it's Tema Nkun's work, which is I can have you be able to link that in the show notes. But I think that that work is so critical when we're talking about the intersectionality and the necessity of understanding that we are not monolithic or single human beings. We are actually— we hold multiple identities and we need those identities to be able to live in a way that is integrated and also honored and affirmed. And my favorite thing from my loving intimate partner and spouse, early on in our relationship, I think that there was a desire to tattoo H&M on my arm. And I said, tell me more about this. And of course, thank goodness we didn't go that route because H&M became a clothing brand store. But I would say that having the idea of H&M tattooed was really to stand for being human and being messy and remembering that being human is messy. And it's also critical that like we not get caught up in needing to get it right or needing to be perfect or needing to like show up in ways that are urgent. Except I think that there is a— in releasing like kind of the urgency, there is a remembering to slow down enough to access some of the ancient ancestral and embodied wisdom that all of us hold and utilize the breath to get there. And so I circle back to just say that I think that it is so critical that we figure out what language is that we use. And it's easy to get lost in language and words. My double air loves words, as you may have already observed in this beautiful conversation. And I think that there's a real necessity to like stay simple in the way in which we really seek to honor and affirm people in being who they are in any given moment and without expectation or judgment or anticipation of who they might be becoming. Because you just want to hold space for there to be a possibility that whoever the person is that you're most loved and connected to who's LGBTQ+ identified is finding their way. And there is no necessity to hold them in any one identity that they share with you at any given moment in time because it's ultimately an evolution and identity development is an unfolding process. And so making sure that we find the space, grace, and place of presence to be able to honor people being who they are, whether it's in your home and in your family or in your community and in your workplace. It's so critical that you find ways to be able to show up human and messy and be able to receive the gift of feedback, getting uncomfortable and sitting in the discomfort. And really truly being in a space of speaking your truth as it arises in you so that you're able to connect with people from the heart. Yes.

You're hitting on all of my favorite things. I'm literally sitting here like, yes, that too. That is one of my favorite sayings that I've said from the beginning is embrace the beautyness the beauty and the messiness, because it's just— it is, and it is, right? And the loving for who they are right now in this moment in time. And that was a lesson that we learned, you know, through difficulties, and that at one point— because I think it is natural for parents to want to fix because, to your point, we don't like to be uncomfortable, right? So it's uncomfortable when our child is hurting or, you know, there's, there's some kind of struggle going on. And so we want to fix that because it doesn't feel good. And, and ultimately, in fixing, we tend to like go future, right, with the fix. Well, whatever this fix is at some point in the future. And I remember Connor, I mean, very, very clearly saying to us, thankfully pretty early on, when you talk about that, when you try to fix, it makes me feel like I am not good enough. It, you know, and he said a lot more, but it was, that was the idea, you know, he, it was just adding to the layers of you know, self-loathing that he was going through at the time. And, you know, just all the late— we were just piling on. We had no idea, right? We, we thought we were being helpful. In fact, we were not. What he needed to hear was, we love you for who you are right this moment, right now. We see you, we hear you, we love you. That's all they need.

Yes, that's so simple and yet sometimes so difficult because it's like, you know, you're breaking a pattern of socialization. It's a bit— because a lot of times I like to say this in my work as a Visionary Collective healer with diversity, equity, inclusion, and belonging, and in what I do as a well-being executive astrological coach and consultant, I definitely see that we need to acknowledge that we are truthfully engaged in a like, in what I would say is like a collective— in like a collective illness. Like, so I feel like we need— we need collective healing. We have to engage in collective healing because we have a collective illness. And that collective illness is that we conform to creating a sense of lack and worthiness. Like, so we have an unworthiness, right? So we have like this— we have this like conformity where it's like a status quo way of operating, a way where we just stay with what is comfortable and familiar. And if anyone throws us like a curveball from left field, I'll just use an example of a, of a former student of mine. They would say to me like, Jen, when I wear this bracelet and then they would like describe the bracelet, it would be like, I'm wearing like a rose quartz pink bracelet. I need you to call me Jacqueline. But when I'm wearing this like Bowtie, I want you to call me Jacob. And those are my names. And then I have pronouns that go with each of those names, and I'd like you to be honoring both of them. And it was really one of those pieces where I thought to myself, like, they're really walking me lovingly through the way in which they want to be honored in this world and in this— and in the moments that I cross paths with them. And it doesn't take much. For me to just like retain, like, okay, the signifier that they're wearing is the rose quartz bracelet, and the bow tie is the signifier for when I'm going to use Jacob and the pronoun set he/him/his, and Jacqueline is gonna be she/her/hers. And in fact, this student actually used they/them/theirs with Jacqueline, and they used he/him/his with Jacob. But that being said, it was a— and those names aren't the real names, but like, that being said, I would say is like, You know, when we cannot fit up to a standardized societal expectation, a status quo, for example, then we have what I would say is an illness of conformity. Like, it's an illness of conformity, and we need to have the ability to acknowledge who it is we are in that moment and be embracing and embodying our inherent wholeness and our innate worthiness in the collective at that same point in time. And we need to look at wholeness of mind, wholeness of body, wholeness of heart, wholeness of spirit, wholeness of soul with different modalities. And finding those modalities is what it is I've done as a collective healer, which is why I weave in the multiplicities of, of practices and tools for people to be able to resource and to find an ability to connect to their own, like, wellspring of well-being practices. And that is like, for them, not— it's not something that's going to go dry because it's coming from within themselves. And that's why, for me, Breathing Belonging is the medicine that I framed for using it in the collective when I'm working with corporations or as a consultant, and I'm helping people to get away from their identity, get away from their actual— from their role and their responsibility and the label. They're not living into the labels, but they're actually breathing belonging into themselves so that they can innovate into the projects that they're working with on their teams with a creative sense of their own breath as accessing their inner wise being or their expanded sense of self. And those are things to me that like are necessary as we create a new world and we, and we invite people in to breathing, um, new ways of being. And showing up accountable for who we are and what we've embodied. But what we're aspiring to be is actually in a revolutionary way, more just, more equitable, and more inclusive and intentional. And so those are the, like, I think, big pieces I wanted to make sure that I shared with your community because I do believe that, like, The Just Breathe podcast is a form of medicine for the collective illness of conformity, and it is a sense of permission slip to be able to say, like, it's okay for you to have the permission to be a little messy in the, in the moments where you're learning or unlearning and relearning. Because I think that is giving yourself that grace and embracing that mess as like a sort of, you know, tool of grace to say, hey, I messed up this time, and I appreciate you giving me the space and time to change. But like, when I— but I want— but I want to let you to know that I love you fiercely and unconditionally, irrespective of my errors and my human you know, my human mistakes.

Right, right. Always, every single time, right?

Yes, yes.

Thank you. That is such a beautiful way to just to wrap up. And I realize I just looked at the clock and I have just been so taken and swept by our conversation, um, and just by you in general. So thank you. Thank you for sharing of your wisdom and your heart and your knowledge with me and with my community. And I think that we will definitely have to do a part 2 at some point because that was just lovely.

Thank you, Heather. It's such an honor, and I really am appreciating the opportunity for your community to connect more into the ways that they can parent and lead with purpose and potential from their heart. So thank you for bringing me in and connecting me to this LGBTQ+ community that is— and it's more than just a singular community. It's LGBTQ+ communities that are, that are the, that are the multi-passionate, multi-potential light beings of our, of our new world. So thank you.

Thanks so much for joining me today. If you enjoyed today's episode, I would be so grateful for a rating or a review. Click on the link in the show notes or go to my website, chrysalismama.com, to stay up to date on my latest resources as well as to learn how you can work with me. Please share this podcast with anyone who needs to know that they are not alone. And remember to just breathe. Until next time.