#108 | Why Talking Isn’t Enough: Real Bullying Defense Strategies Every LGBTQ Ally Parent Should Use

Welcome to Just Breathe: Parenting Your LGBTQ Teen, the podcast transforming the conversation around loving and raising an LGBTQ child. My name is Heather Hester, and I am so grateful you are here. I want you to take a deep breath and know that for the time we are together, you are in the safety of the Just Breathe nest. Whether today's show is an amazing guest or me sharing stories, resources, strategies, or lessons I've learned along our journey, I want you to feel like we're just hanging out at a coffee shop having a cozy chat. Most of all, I want you to remember that wherever you are on this journey right now, in this moment in time, you are not alone.

Welcome to Just Breathe, everyone. So happy you are here, and I'm really, really excited to just jump right in with our guest for today. Suzanne Jean is here to talk about a really, really important topic that we all can relate to, that our kids can relate to. And I'm just really excited to learn about, uh, what she teaches, what she's learned in her research and her studies. And so we're just going to jump right in and welcome so much to the show. I'm so really thrilled that you're here and excited to hear your stories.

Wow. Thank you, Heather. I'm really happy to be here and I have, I feel, a very important message to get out around bullying and violence in our communities. I started this work many, many years ago. So my path was in social services working with really at-risk kids. And concurrently with that, I studied martial arts and I began to see the synergy between working, building confidence through self-defense. And it started working with very at-risk kids and realizing that we were criminalizing them. We were putting them in jail because we couldn't deal with their trauma and their behaviors that came with that trauma. And at that time, I'm going back to the early '70s, there was not a lot of understanding about what trauma was. So we packed them into, you know, the jails and those systems. And it doesn't take very long for kids to really start to fall apart. Also, it was a time when there was a lot of street youth, kids living on the street. And I did a study at that time and realized within 24 hours, a kid would be involved in some type of criminal activity if they were on the street, whether it was just stealing food. Or, you know, selling drugs or whatever. And that we really needed to step up and intervene with these kids. So that's where the work began. And I began to teach women's self-defense and understand that absolutely we could, we could build self-confidence through this process. And so the actual program evolved over many years, but it has 4 pillars. And those are attention, awareness, avoidance, and action. So though the program is, I use it as a hook to get the self-defense happening and get people interested. The real heart and soul of it is around self-awareness exercises. So I start with attention and it's about like tuning into the here and now, which is very timely in terms of the interest in meditation and mindfulness. But if you think about it, kids nowadays, they're so hooked into the phones and computers and social media and the gaming, and they are losing those, those skills to actually connect one-to-one with each other. And it's so, when I do discussions in the groups, they think it's like rocket science. They go, wow, that was really cool. Can we do that again? And I say, yeah, in the olden days, we called it having having a good discussion, right? We had a conversation. We can do lots more talking about these things. But if you think about it, if they're all in their own little silos, they're not really getting that experience that they get from, from that kind of attention. As, and as we know, where our attention goes, our energy flows, right? Yep. So if it's going in the tube, if it's going into social media, it's really depleting. The next area is awareness, and this is the heart and soul. It's really just helping kids discover what they really truly believe, what they need, what they want, and then helping them get some skills to communicate that. And with bullying, it's about setting those boundaries. But to set the boundary, you have to know what the boundary is, right? You have to, you know, you need that self-examination to be able to understand that. So I do a whole bunch of exercises around figuring those things out. Like, so talking about boundaries, talking about values, like what's important to me and what isn't important to me. And then being able to communicate that in a way that is, you know, enriching is very, very, very important. And getting them to love themselves and open their hearts. Because there's so much of that sense of unworthiness. And when you have bullying, I mean, it's a constant degradation of, of self, right?

Right.

Because it's about differences. You're not good enough or you're not the way you should be in the world. So when you take them to a place where they really begin to see themselves in a different light, they can start to, to really love themselves. And I do a lot of providing information around the brain and how the brain works and how we, our thoughts affect our feelings. And we go into those areas, but I have to say this program is fun. Like when I'm talking about this, I was like, ooh, how do you get kids to do that? Right? It's really fun. Like I have, I, I have all of these different ways. And then I'm always debriefing through the physical. We're always moving, doing the self-defense, doing the breathing exercises, doing the movement. And that way, you know, when I, if I have to move something in, in a transition, I, I have all these different ways to do that.

That is so cool.

Then we go to avoidance. How do you stay safe? How do you, you know, what steps do you take? And I, and I, and I don't just deal in the, again, in the physical realm. I start in a physical realm and then I talk about the emotional. How do we hold ourselves back? Mm-hmm. Right? But then how do we really clearly enable ourselves to, to stay safe? So then there's the action. So it's the last resort is if in the event that you had to defend yourself, I teach them the skills to do that so that they can I teach them defense position. I teach blocking. Um, so in an event that they were bullied, they could actually defend themselves. But the avoidance, moving into action, uh, the action part to me too is it's all about making good choices and decisions.

Oh yeah.

But again, you need that reflection to say, huh, you know, What is, what is a good choice? And the, the more at risk the kids that I work with, the more difficult it is for them to understand risk. They don't, they don't understand risk. So we really kind of talk about that. I mean, an example, I was in a, I had a group of girls and we were sitting there and we were talking about this area, you know, of risk and One girl looked at them and said, oh my goodness, I think I'm at risk. I sleep in the backseat of my mom's car while she's turning tricks. And I just, and you know, I've been doing this a long time, but my jaw dropped. I didn't know what to say. I didn't know what to say. And the, but the girls picked it up. They said, that's not okay. You are at risk, you know, and maybe Suzanne can find, help you find a house. My goodness. I sat there with my jaw dropped, right?

I am sure.

I mean, I mean, that's just right out of the realm.

Oh my goodness.

So I started working with really at-risk kids, with a lot of people who suffered trauma, mental health, because I have worked in social services, community-based social services for 50 years. But as I progressed in, in building the curriculum, this is all written curriculum. I have it for children. I have it for youth. I have it for seniors. But as I began to develop it, you know, mainstream, like schools said, we have a problem here with bullying. We need this program in the schools.

Yes.

So I started to teach more mainstream groups. And yeah, it's been a great journey.

That is really extraordinary. So in here, you talk about how this program can be used for both one who is being bullied as well as for one who bullies. Correct. Can you talk about that a little bit?

Well, it's called PowerEd because bullying is about control and power any way you cut it. Yeah. And the way to avoid bullying is to create healthy, confident kids. One of the first exercises I do is, uh, I divide the group into 3 and I have 3 questions. What is bullying? Why do people bully? And what can you do about it? And they have all 3 groups write out the answers to this on these big sheets of paper, and then they pass the sheets. I love it. So what happens if you understand that 1 in 4 kids is being bullied in the classroom. When they present back the information to the larger group, the kids that bully for the first time in their lives see how other people perceive them as weak, as having problems, of needing help, you know, of not feeling feeling good about themselves.

Right.

So it's a, it, I, as an instructor, can see the little bulbs go off. I can see it in their faces. I can pick them out, but nobody knows, like it's an anonymous process.

Right.

But it's the beginning of self-awareness for them.

Sure.

And in my book, I have this, in my book, I have this story. Um, my daughter's an instructor and I went and she had a tough class in the inner city and she said, mom, come and teach it with me. So I went and there was this kid that was, he was singled out as the big problem and he was a problem, you know, but we were doing the exercise and this, this exercise is in the first class and we were, I was in his group because I wanted to manage him. And his friend said to him, Johnny, you know, you're a bully, don't you? And he looked at him and I thought, here we go. He's going to escalate. He's going to get angry. I'm going to have a scene. And he looked at him and he said, but I don't want to be. Oh, my heart just went, oh, again, self-awareness, that holding up that mirror and understanding, right?

That, right?

And that kid did a 360. Like I've never seen a child change so quickly. Sure. And one of the amazing things is I followed up and it's that behavior sustained. He decided at that moment. And he, the nice thing was he was really good at the techniques and he was really proud of himself, right? And I always do demos and it's like demo, demo, and he would do his demo and other kids would say, you're really good at that. And probably the first time in his life. That he had, had, had gotten positive resp— you know, feedback from his peers. Absolutely. They're saying that, and, and that is like a little seed that just blossoms so quickly.

Yeah.

I'm good at something. I'm worth something. I'm important. These are the messages that I am working at getting out there. And yeah, and bullying hurts.

Right.

And bullying hurts. And when I, because I deal with physical, they can kind of feel that pain sometimes, you know, pinch, it hurts.

Right.

So when you, and, and the passive aggressive bullying that, that's happening on the internet is so gutless because the kids don't take responsibility for it, but they hurt. So they need to understand. It's not okay. It's not okay to hurt people.

No, it's not.

For their differences. And I know, you know, right. Yeah.

Right. For some of that.

That's a little story from the book. So the book is about transformational stories. Like I, I tell stories where, where people really grow and learn through this process, this program. And yeah, I'd love to.

Would you share one of the stories?

Well, the first story is pretty interesting because it's a, it, I was teaching women's self-defense and I got a call and this woman said, you Suzanne? And I said, yeah. And she says, oh, the word on the street is you're okay. And I said, oh, well, who are you? And she said, well, I'm My name's Rhonda. She said, I'm a sex trade worker. She said, we're having trouble. Like there's a serial killer and he's, he's, he's killed some of my friends with piano wire. And, uh, we need self-defense and we heard that you do that. So I said, well, I'm not sure I can help you, but I'd be willing to talk about it. And she said, I'll set up a meeting, 2 AM at Fresco's on Damey Street. In Vancouver. The meeting was at 2 in the morning. So I thought, what have I gotten into? So I tell this story, I end up showing up and she had reserved the back of the restaurant and 50 women came. Oh my goodness. And we had a meeting and we talked about what self-defense is about and, you know, my conditions. And I was right, I didn't know what I was doing. You gotta understand. I mean, This was unbelievable, but I was willing to give it a go. Of course. But the conditions where they showed up, they weren't wasted on drugs or alcohol. But the big one was that they gave 100%. They gave me 100% of what they could do. And I worked with, I worked with this, guess when that class was? 7 AM when they got off work because Rhonda said if they went home, they'd all be getting up at different times and it wouldn't work.

Right.

So they came at 7 in the morning. Oh. And I saw what resilience is about. I, I saw what community is about, how they began, they began to look after each other, say no to getting in cars when they knew that it was dangerous, watching each other's backs, understanding their defense. I mean, and then the background, I worked with my martial arts friends to, to hone techniques that, that would be helpful to them. How do you do self-defense in stilettos? I would imagine the stiletto could be used. It's like a stabbing, but, but anyway, this, this was amazing experience, but I saw how they looked after each other, the sense of community and how, you know, we marginalize people. So easily put them in those little boxes. But I'm telling you, those women taught me more.

Well, they're human beings, right? I mean, they're human beings just like everyone else. And I love that. And I love— thank you for sharing that story because I think that it's really important to humanize people. Absolutely. And I mean, that is definitely a piece of bullying, right? That it dehumanizes.

Yeah, but they developed the confidence in themselves that they could take care of themselves.

Right, right, right. So these 4 pillars really transcend. I mean, this works for anyone, anywhere, at any time.

The 4 pillars are interrelated. Um, and as I said, but the actual curriculum is, there's a, it's a lot of fun. I build in so much play and I have been adding a lot more mindfulness and the kids love it. Like with my group today, I'll do a lot of mindfulness with them because they need the tools to self-regulate. The fastest way to self-regulate is through breath, right? And if we can, and that's your program, Just Breathe. That's right. It is. And it's the exhalation. And, um, so I'm doing a lot more of that with them and building that into the curriculum in different places.

That's fantastic. That's fantastic. Well, I imagine too, with any of, you know, any of the people that you work with, I guess, let me pose this as a question. Which of your 4 pillars is the most surprising? To people that you work with, where you get the most, like, you know, light bulb moments or ahas or connections?

The self-awareness. Yeah. That's what I was thinking. Absolutely. The self-awareness. And, you know, through the self-defense, they can deal with fear though, in a really gut way. They have focus pads. They can hit a focus pad. They can feel physical strength. They can dissipate fear.

Right.

It can dissipate anger and those, those, those scary emotions.

Mm-hmm.

So that's also really, really helpful. And working in, working with the, the stories in my book are very extreme trauma. And I use a lot of that technique of just being able to smack something, smack something hard, you know? And just have that ex— that feeling of strength and power.

Right. And release, I imagine, as well.

Absolutely. And guess what happens when you smack something? You exhale.

Yes, you do.

And then guess what happens then? You have to take a full breath in.

Yeah.

Then you feed all that, all those systems. So, yeah.

That is—

well, I loved when I saw your, the name of your podcast. I loved it. I loved it. Well, thank you. Yes. I mean, simpatico.

We are very simpatico and it is definitely the, you know, the breath is a huge thing that really helped me early on because it helped me reconnect. It helped me, you know, get centered.

Well, it kicks you into a whole different nervous system. You know, you're in a, a different place completely. You're out of all, fight or flight.

Right.

And this is something else to teach kids. They need to learn about the brain.

Right.

What's going on in our brain and the connection to our body and our spirit.

That is so— and how everything really is connected, right? And how they can care for it. I think that so many of these pieces are left out of education for our adolescents, for our children and adolescents, even that everything for them seems so like this is over here and that's over here. Nothing is— they don't see the connection. So I really love that you're teaching how everything is interconnected and how to be aware and how— I mean, this is really just such a wonderful lesson in not only self-awareness but empowerment.

Well, and you can be in control of yourself, and it's such a scary thing not to, you know, to experience anxiety and all of those hard emotions like anger and anxiety and not be in control. And just to be able to be in control yourself and like face those fears, it's just such a positive thing. A lot of conversations in the school, like, they, they, they're not happening and they're the ones that need to be happening. And I, and I've taken them on. We talk about suicide.

Good.

We talk about self-harm. We talk about sexual abuse. They won't talk about sexual abuse.

Yeah, I know.

Right? So those tough subjects. And again, I, I'm doing it in a really careful way and I'm able to always debrief and always move things through physically. So they're not, it's not left hanging.

Right. Or stuck.

Yeah. And I also connect when I'm doing a program anywhere, I connect to resources. If I have to refer kids, I often get, you know, a kid coming up after and saying, oh, my friend has a drinking problem. Can you, you know, or my friend has, this is happening to my friend and I always know it's them. Right.

Right. Holy baby.

Yeah. Yeah.

Oh my goodness.

I just realized, you know, I just realized I need help with this. You know, my boyfriend is, is hurting me. Right.

Right.

I mean, these things, they, they come forth with that and, and I'm not all things to all people. So I, I connect with resources, like I'll connect with this counselor and I have, and I have my instructors do that in any area. The other place that they do a resource list is sports, martial arts, because often once kids start to move again, They say, oh, I used to do this. I feel good. You know, I'd like to, I'd like to dance again. I would like to, I'd like to study martial arts.

Right.

So it's really great to have those resources and be able to refer them.

Absolutely.

When it's happening.

Absolutely.

And I'm, I wanted to, I was trying to get a grant. I'd like to develop a youth navigator program to train kids as leaders to take kids to introduce kids to those things.

Oh, nice.

Because it, you know, walking through those doors is really hard, but if you have a kid that can be a peer navigator and go to a martial arts class with a kid or go to a sports thing, it would be great. So that's something I'm working on. But the last thing I want to talk about is, you know, the book is Bullying Stops Here, and I I think that as communities, we need to get programs in our schools and community centers.

Yeah.

So the last chapter talks about that, and it is not difficult. It just takes coordination. And my company is called Fit for Defence, and I'm really happy to work with groups to figure out how they can get a program going in their organization and help them through the steps. So there's basically, uh, The steps are laid out in the last chapter and how to do it, but it has to be everyone. Yeah. It can't just, you know, you can't just have the teachers and not the parents.

Right.

You need the whole community. This is also happening in offices, right? Like workplaces. Bullying is huge because little bullies grow up to be big bullies.

Exactly right. I was just going to say, you know, it transcends age. So, yes.

Yeah. So my message is that we begin to get that message out everywhere, that it's not okay. It's just not acceptable. And we have gangs murdering each other, incidences daily. And as you know, in your area, just so much discrimination. And hurt, right?

Yes.

That's not okay. It's not okay. That's what I'm working on.

I love that. So do you have, um, do you work virtually with people or do you only work in person?

Yeah, I can work virtually.

Okay.

Yep.

Okay.

Um, and I can go—

you mentioned that you're—

and I have a train the trainer program, so I trained instructors in different areas. Okay.

That's what I was gonna ask.

So I do have instructors in other places that are very, very good and and can go in and work with communities as well to do that kind of work or get a class going.

Wonderful. That's great.

And we have classes. We work with, you know, we work with sports groups. We work in community centers. We work in jails. We work in alternate schools. We work in mainstream schools.

It's, um, incredible, incredible mission.

The curriculum is based— well, the full youth curriculum is 10 weeks, but it can be delivered in a lot of different ways because, uh, if it's in a PE class, it might be twice a week, you know, splitting the classes.

Right.

Yeah. So it's very flexible.

That is fantastic. Really great. Oh my goodness. Well, I am so thrilled. So tell everyone the name of your book.

Well, Yang Snob's Here.

And can they get it on Amazon?

And they can, they can get the book on Amazon.

Wonderful. Well, I will have links in the show notes. So it, you know, obviously you can jump on right now, everybody, and jump onto Amazon and grab it. Otherwise there will be a link.

Start your anti-bullying program.

That's right. Exactly. Well, all of the information is in there as well, but I will also give some links to, to you so, so people can reach out directly if they would like. If they're like, I don't need to read the book. I just want to do this. I'll, they can reach out to you right away. So I am just. I'm so grateful that you came onto the show and that we were connected by a very dear mutual acquaintance, and that, um, this is just such important work that you're doing. And I know I am grateful.

Heather, your work is important too.

Uh, well, thank you.

And, uh, just providing that support for families and kids, which is really great.

Thank you. Well, we definitely, like you said earlier, we are simpatico.

And we're simpatico, right? So we're just gonna breathe.

That's right, exactly. I mean, you know, if nothing else, we have that. That's always with us, right? We always have the breath. So anyway, thank you. Thank you so much for being here today.

Okay. Bye, Heather.

Thanks so much for joining me today. If you enjoyed today's episode, I would be so grateful for a rating or a review. Click on the link in the show notes or go to my website, chrysalismama.com, to stay up to date on my latest resources as well as to learn how you can work with me. Please share this podcast with anyone who needs to know that they are not alone. And remember to just breathe. Until next time.