#19 | Why Boundaries Are Hard—and How LGBTQ Parents Can Master Them (Part 1)

Welcome to Just Breathe, the podcast focused on transforming the LGBTQ+ conversation and supporting you on your journey with your LGBTQ loved one. You are not alone. Welcome to Just Breathe: Parenting Your LGBTQ Teen. My name is Heather Hester, and I am excited to be with you to transform the conversation around loving and raising an LGBTQ child. Wherever you are on this journey, right now, in this moment in time, you are not alone. Before we start today, I have a little disclaimer. The information provided today is for informational purposes only and not intended or implied to be a substitute for professional therapeutic advice, diagnosis, or treatment. This is a disclaim of any and all liability or responsibility for any direct, indirect, incidental, special, consequential, or other damages that arise out of any individual's use of reference to, reliance on, or use of the information presented in or following this podcast. You are directed to verify information through consulting your healthcare team. Joining me today is Diane Becker. She is a nationally certified juvenile treatment specialist, a licensed clinical social worker, a licensed continuing education provider for social workers and professional counselors, and has been connecting with families and professionals over the past 30 years. Diane and I have been friends for more than 15 years, and in addition to being the kind of friend who just gets you and knows your heart, I have learned so much about mental health and social-emotional health from her. So without further ado, welcome, Diane.

Oh, thank you so much. I am so happy to be here. You know, one of the most common misconceptions is that as teens get older, they have less need for families, and that couldn't be farther from the truth. Family is a central, central part. To teens. And, you know, as things are becoming more complicated and they just have more and more challenges, it's so important to have these conversations. So thank you so much for having this like avenue just to connect with other families and having the discussions.

You are so welcome. I am. I really am thrilled to have you here. And I want you all to know, I invited Diane on the show today to talk about boundaries. And this is something that I've touched on in previous episodes and promised you all that we would take a deep dive into. So today is that day. And I have to tell you that Diane is actually the one who introduced the concept of boundaries to me. I will never ever forget the day that we were on the phone and I can't remember what we were talking about, But she said, "Heather, you need to set some boundaries." And I was like, "I'm sorry, what are these boundaries that you speak of?" I literally had no idea what she was talking about. And the more that she explained to me, I was just stunned thinking, "I'm allowed to do this? This is amazing." And it was such a pivotal moment in my personal growth that I still remember to this day where I was standing in my kitchen. So I'd like to start there, Diane. Let's start with just the real basics. Sure. What are these boundaries that you speak of, these magical boundaries?

Right. Boundaries, I guess, in like the simplest terms, are those things that keep us emotionally and physically safe. And, you know, these— it's interesting because, you know, as we learn more and we talk to teens more, we start changing what we do and how we talk about things. And we've always kind of thought of these boundaries as being kind of internally set, that these are things that you come up with kind of on your own of what you accept and what you don't accept. Things that you say are okay and not okay. As we're getting more into this and talking to more people and more teens, and we're seeing that it's also set by our relationships and that connectedness to one another. And in terms of families, this is so critical because this is really where we start our first relationships, right? With our families. Right. And so in terms of like connectedness, I always think of things like being supported, being valued, being understood, being accepted. So I, you know, that's kind of how I determine that connectedness piece and kind of define that piece. And it's interesting when I've had conversations with teens and families, when you talk about connectedness, you also talk about the other side of that, the loneliness, the disconnect, the, the, the arguments, the confusion around certain things in the relationships. And so you really have to kind of talk about both things when you talk about connectedness.

Right. Well, just acknowledging that they both exist equally, right? It's part of the being seen.

Yes. And it's interesting around like, um, well, to like around 2000 is when technology really started, you know, kicking off into the deep, you know, kind of studies that we were able to do, just like looking at the brain and the body and just seeing how different things impact us and really studying more about stress and things of, you know, going on in our environment and how that impacts us. And there is a neuroscientist, John Cacioppo. In 2008, he wrote a book called Loneliness, and human nature and the need for social connection. And one of the things that just always resonates with me and was really kind of a change in terms of science is a quote from him where he said, "The sense of isolation or social rejection disrupts our thinking abilities and also our immune system." Oh, wow. Yeah. And that's really when we started doing kind of this deep dive from a medical perspective in terms of the impact of just that ability to have that connection with other people, to be loved, to be accepted. To be valued and how that impacts just not our thinking about ourselves and about other people, but it also affects us physically and our physical health.

Right. Which I think we're actually starting to see that more and more now, right? When we're seeing, you know, specific to my audience, like, you know, um, kids who do not have that connectedness, who do not have, um, acceptance, love from their families. We're seeing— we're beginning to see how that's not only manifesting in mental health struggles but also in physical health struggles.

Yes. And, you know, when you put it in context with LGBTQ teens, we're seeing through things that they're telling us is that expressing gender is starting at about age 2 to 3 years of age. We're also hearing that the attractiveness to others, knowing usually around like age 10. Now, you— sometimes they're identifying themselves more around 13, 14, but really recognizing that attractiveness is starting around age 10.

Wow.

And they're telling us just about being harassed, intimidated, discriminated against. So when you think of this connectedness and this value and this importance of relationships. And you're thinking about it starting around 2 and 3 years of age.

That's extraordinary. It really is. And it really, it hits home the importance of creating such a safe space, right? Creating a space where our kids can, where they feel open and able to say exactly what they're thinking, how they're feeling, and be able to identify it feels different than what I'm seeing at school. It, you know, really being able to articulate that. I think we'd, you know, focus on so many other different pieces that are— the top two things that are jumping in my head right now are, you know, academics. How are they doing? How are they learning to read? Are they learning, you know, basic number skills at those young, young ages? Um, are they physically active in some way? And we kind of overlook these— they're a little bit more subtle. And, and Younger kids have a tougher time being able to really talk about that. And so I think that's where it's important for us to really learn this so that we are able to create that space for them and our homes and our families. You know, this again goes to us educating ourselves and, you know, learning about these things that we didn't have any idea existed. Right?

Right. And I think a lot of it too is changing conversations that we're just learning about our mental health. You know, before it was always thought of as physical health and mental health. And we're seeing they're so intertwined. There really is no separation. It's all health, it's all impacting who we are and health and wellbeing.

Right.

And NAMI does a great job with that, the National Association of Mental Health Illness. And, you know, they were talking just last month in terms of, you know, we're so good about identifying physical things, like when you wake up in the morning and you'll say, oh, like my knee hurts and you adjust or you change your day based on compensating for that and caring for that. But we're not so good at identifying, you know, waking up and saying, I don't, I don't feel very happy today. I don't know, like what that's about. Or there's not really discussions about that, like what's going on and what could be contributing to that. And so just trying to like be more in tune with that and changing some of those conversations around that. And the younger we can start doing that, we're hearing from kids, is the best, you know, the best, because they can start building in habits of doing that. That's that self-care piece.

Right, right. Absolutely. And I think that that is— I love that you touched on that. Because the way you and I grew up and, and, you know, up until the past, you know, maybe 10, maybe 20 years, those are the type of things that you just sweep under the rug. Oh, well, I don't feel very happy today, or I feel just kind of melancholy, or whatever that is. Those are the things that have always just been— you sweep them under the rug, you keep going, you keep moving, you don't even address it. And I love that finally— I've referred to, you know, said this a couple of times— mental health is finally not the, you know, ugly stepchild of, of the health, you know, profession, the health just industry, health in general. It's being recognized as it's real. This isn't made-up things, you know, made-up feelings or experiences for people who aren't strong. You know, there still is a long way to go, but I am heartened that there, you know, are people like you out there who are working so hard every day to bring more and more to light. And, you know, as I open my inbox and I'm doing research for either this podcast or my writing, when I come across other people who are doing this work, I just think, oh, This is so good because this validates people, especially our, you know, our young people, our children, our teens, our young adults. It validates their experience.

Yeah, and you know, we're talking about setting boundaries, and boundaries is self-care. And how do you even start to do that without actually being able to tap into some of that emotional and physical safety piece that you do need. So these are key. You know, I wanted to mention too, there's another scientist, Matthew Lieberman. In 2013, he wrote a book called Social: Why Our Brains Are Wired to Connect. The social connection is basic of a need as food and water. It's just such an in— like, it's a need. It's not even like, oh, it's something nice to have, or it's great if you have it. It's a, it's a physical need. And, you know, technology's just done wonderful things because, you know, you were talking about like mental health having more awareness. A lot of that has to do with technology advances because we're able to see the brain in a very different way. And even though people like me were working with people, we see patterns, we see things come up, we know that there's a reason behind it. There was never really that hard science behind it. So now, you know, now we're able to hook up electrodes to someone and see, you know, how they're reacting when they're sad or angry. You know, what's going on in the brain. And one of the things that I think has been the most critical findings is that when someone is feeling this deep emotional pain, it is actually processing in the brain the same way as it does for physical pain.

That makes total sense, doesn't it? I mean, it's fascinating. And I'm so I love that they are able to do that now because I think, you know, prior to this, when, you know, someone was in that type of pain, when, you know, you would describe it as, you know, you— where you feel it, right? Well, I feel it in my stomach. My stomach, oh, it hurts here, or here, you know, in your chest, in your heart, you know, where you feel. And you could actually— you knew it wasn't a quote-unquote physical pain, but you could feel it physically. And so I think that is just— it's fascinating. And it's having that science backing is huge. The science research and the continued, you know, the continued findings are just absolutely extraordinary. And going back to what you had said a little bit before that about the, the awareness piece, being aware of the connection between the— your— how you're feeling physically and how you're feeling mentally and emotionally, and being able to connect all of those pieces so that then you can talk about it, right? And, and that does connect to self-care. And I know we're gonna get into this in a little bit in more detail, but being able to— for us as adults and parents, we have to really clue into those pieces so then we can help our kids learn how to identify and be aware of and be present with and, you know, sit with all of this because sometimes it's uncomfortable, right? And so it's teaching them at these younger ages that being uncomfortable is okay. It's often, you're, you know, you're learning something. Your body in some way is learning something. So this is good.

Mm-hmm. Yeah. And you know, when we're hearing from teens, you know, your LGBTQ teens, they're telling us about, you know, it's tough to be a teen anyway, right?

Yes.

Pressure. So much pressure and stress. And every day there are new challenges that— I mean, the iPhone itself, the creation of that, and the social media has just introduced all kinds of wonderful things, you know, but it's also a lot of additional stress and leaves them vulnerable in a lot of ways.

Absolutely.

So I think because of that, I mean, we just need to keep having these conversations and we change the way we talk with teens, the way we help them with safety and their own health. And it requires different conversations. And those can be uncomfortable for sure.

Absolutely, absolutely. And I think, you know, equal— equally, or if not even more so for us as the adult, as the parent, we have to, you know, walk through, sit with, be with that, that feeling of this is so uncomfortable, I don't want to do it. Too bad, this, this is what we signed up for, right? Like, we may not want to do it, and, and we may feel like we're kind of floundering through it, But it's so much more important to flounder through than to not do it all.

Would you agree? And I think the important thing about that whole piece of what you just said is don't do it alone because it's too complicated. I mean, the idea of, oh, I can handle this or I can do this, it's not even about that. It's not your ability to handle it or not handle it. The idea behind it is that it's complicated. And you, whether you, you know, when you have a child, you are sort of their whole universe, right? Because you're doing the primary care and you're taking care of all of their needs. But that's not the reality as they get older.

Right.

They become in, they become involved in all of these different lives, different systems, and you're not doing it alone anymore, whether you want to or not.

Right, right.

Connectedness for you as a parent is critical because you— not only is it too complicated for one person to be figuring out, it's also not realistic. Because they're not with you all the time.

Correct. And a lot of times people who do not live with your child, with you, may see things that you're not seeing, either because it's just not coming out at home or because you're just so used to how your child operates. It is so helpful to to know you have other eyes and know you have other people who are invested in what is best for your child regardless of what stage they are, which, you know, as, as we all know, the difference between having a 10-year-old and a 13-year-old and a 17-year-old is huge, right? And you have to really pivot and change what you're saying and just be really in tune with where they are as well as where they are in the world. So lean on the people in your community, the people who are with your child, the professionals who are available to help you walk through this. And, you know, like, like I've said many, many times, if you need help finding professionals to help you walk through this, I can help you, my website can help you. There are many of us out here who want to help you find that support because it is just that critical.

Yes, and one of the cool things I think that's come out of a lot of the research around LGBTQ teens is that, you know, because you as a family are so central in their lives and you're so invaluable in terms of their health and safety. Some of this disconnect that starts happening when they start coming out or when they start expressing themselves more really is critical during that first 2 years between them and their family. And, and that's been a key finding in the past I'd say 10 years of research. And because of that, we're able to offer more supports. And that's another reason why you do not want to be going this alone. The first 2 years are really, really critical. And there are things that are happening that I know in conversations I've had with families, and I see this in the literature all the time, Most families are very loving and caring. They think they are doing things that are helping their teen. And what we're hearing from LGBTQ teens is that there are things that are actually causing a disconnect, that they're— the parents think that they're doing something loving and caring, but it's actually not something that's bringing them closer together. And these are critical findings because these are things that can be changed. These are not things that are like set, like, okay, that's just how it's going to be and there's no hope or help. No, these are critical changes that parents can make, teachers can make, professionals can make changes. And, you know, I know there's just a lot of really programming that's designed and changing now to focus on that, just really supporting families and working through some different conversations of how that connectedness can keep occurring.

That is, I think that's really fascinating and it makes total sense.

Sense.

Oh my goodness, because just speaking from our experience specifically, loving and supportive, but also working as fast and hard as we could to learn, right, to figure out how to best support Connor and, and what he needed. And, you know, for like many of you out there not knowing, you know, what the resources were that were available and what we needed to learn. And these kids are teenagers, they're not going to serve it up to us on a silver platter. That's part of their job is to make things a little bit more difficult. That's just developmentally appropriate, right? So trying to, you know, you're working with where they are just developmentally as well as wanting to support them through the coming out process. And, you know, if anybody has not listened to episode 3, where I very specifically go through the stages of the coming out process, that's really important information because it will help you understand exactly what your, you know, adolescent, teen, young adult, whatever age you— where you are right now with your child, where they are, and what kind of supports they need, what they are going through physically and mentally and emotionally. So I'm glad you said that, and I love that that information is, you know, again, the more that we're able to study this and look at, we're now able to see what are the long-term effects talking to these kids and the kids, the teens, the young adults, they're wanting to give the feedback, right? This is what we need. They're telling us what they need. We need to pay attention to that. That's important. So thank you for sharing that.

Mm-hmm. And this teaching of boundaries, I think we're learning more as adults, we have to have an understanding of what boundaries are first and what that means to us as as a person, as a parent, as a family member. And those are things that we're then teaching families. And as kids are growing older, they're sometimes accepting what you said as a family.

Sure.

They're sometimes not.

Yes, I would say that is very accurate, Diane. I think part of their job is to, to test the boundaries, right? We set them, and if, and if that is the way that particular child is wired, they test them. Not all kids do. I think you and I both have the experience of both, right? Those who like to test and those who do not. And so One of the most important pieces of that though is having the boundaries in place to begin with and knowing what those boundaries are and also understanding that boundaries are meant to shift based on developmental age. So could you, could you add to that a little bit?

Yes, and developmental ability.

Right, right.

And I— one of the things I just want to say is, like, as parents, be kind to yourself. This is not an easy time. It's not an easy time of parenting. It's not an easy time in the world. And, you know, I think a lot of times there's messaging that is given all the time about you know, what you should and should not be doing, and very shame-driven.

Correct. Yes, I have a very dear friend who says, "Don't should on yourself." It's one of my favorite sayings because every time I catch myself saying that, "I should be doing this," it's like an instant, like, alarm goes off now. Just removing "should," because anytime you use that in a directive toward yourself or anybody else, just scrap the whole statement and start over again.

Mm-hmm. And I think that's a good place to start because when you start thinking about boundaries and teaching boundaries, it's really looking at where some of your self-messaging comes from. And so a lot of, you know, when I when I've talked to people, a lot of it centers around how you were raised, your culture, your religion, your community, you know, the environment that you're in. So, you know, that's like a good place to start in terms of— and that's, you know, again, where I say reaching out to other people is just so helpful. Because that's a lot to unpack.

Oh, it sure is. It is. You know, again, it's another one of those things that this isn't going to happen overnight. This is something that you, you just work on a little bit every day, and you're gentle with yourself in the process. Because I love— I'm so happy you said that. I think that is So important, because if you push, push, push and have all these expectations that then either you don't meet your expectation, your child doesn't meet your expectation, then you go into the whole disappointment shame spiral, which doesn't help anybody. It's just completely counterproductive, and that's, that's not what we want for you. You all know that I'm— this is a process for me. I'm still doing this, you know, doing this work every day. So I am not coming to you from a place of, well, I did it all, I'm all good now, I'm all fixed, as my husband likes to say. Whenever I— every week when I talk to my therapist, he says, well, are you fixed now? Yes, no, I'm a work in progress. So be kind to yourselves, be gentle, and just be present and aware.

Yes, well said. And also know that you don't have to have all the answers. And if you are in a place where you're unable to have some of these conversations about boundaries with your kids, there are people out there that can help facilitate some of those conversations.

Absolutely. I think sometimes that's almost more helpful because as we're learning, sometimes it's really hard to articulate that to our kids, right? And so when you have that, you know, professional who's kind of facilitating, boy, does that make it easier. And it gives you kind of guidelines to follow and benchmarks to look for. And they can really help you figure out, even prioritize, what is the most important boundary that you want to work on right now. Thank you for saying that because that is very important to keep in mind.

Yeah, anytime you're in the conversation, you're looking at it from your perspective. And it's so important just to connect back to those first 2 years that we're seeing where really building that relationship and connecting between you and your teen, that's where someone having an objective point of view can point out where maybe some of those conversations are going in a direction that are not supportive and can clarify for the teen or help articulate, like you said, some of those things in a different way.

Right, because the other thing, depending on where your child is, you know, in their process, where they are developmentally, you know, mentally, physically, emotionally, you could be, you know, your child could be totally open to having this conversation or this You know, your child could be in the place of whatever you say is wrong and bad. And so you're not— you don't get them, you don't understand them. And we don't. But that's part of why we're doing this, is so we can make that connection, right? And set boundaries that really work for us and for them and for the entire family unit, which is tricky.

And that's one of the important things when you talk about boundaries, even boundaries around this kind of conversation. There are things that you can kind of go to to set up boundaries until you do figure out some of this stuff. You know, I love you. I will work with you. Let's figure this out together. There are certain statements to make to where you don't have to feel like you have to come up with an answer right away or a solution that can get the message across that you do love them and you do support them. And support is different than acceptance. And this has been a conversation with a lot of people that, you know, this is something that's difficult for many to understand. And for parents that are not LGBTQ, which many are not, that we're hearing from. So there is this like a little bit of confusion around it, and— or a lot of confusion around it, right?

Right.

And so just hearing in terms of, you know, when we see so many things tied to just the safety and health of a teen, you know, teens are at risk for a number of things— sexually transmitted diseases, drug use, suicide. And these are something that everyone is talking about, right? You know, when we are seeing that suicide right now is the second leading cause of death between 10 and 24-year-olds, it's something that's needing a lot of our attention. And for LGBTQ teens, We're seeing there's as much as 8 times more of a risk for that. So as parents, I think it's critical to have conversations around being safe. You know, this is something that everyone needs to be talking about.

Correct. It is uncomfortable and scary, but it is so very important. To know where your child is on it. Have they thought about it? Do they talk about it with their friends? Do they have friends who are talking about it? And it, again, it doesn't matter how you ask. The asking, there's no, you know, there's not a perfect way to do this. The point is just opening up that dialogue and letting your child know that you are available to discuss it, to get help if needed. There are solutions and there's support that is available and that you see them. Really quickly, I just want to go back and touch on when you were talking about setting the boundary with especially specifically our teens, because I think this, you know, really does come specifically from them when they are coming to us either with information or sharing or asking, you do not ever have to give an answer right away. And I just wanted to reiterate that because you did say that, and I think that was such an important lesson for me to know that I could pause and I could say either, I don't know the answer to that question right now, or I need to think about this right now. I love you. I support you. I am here for you. I hear you. I see whatever, you know, where you are in that moment. But giving yourself permission to pause is so very important to your own mental health, your own ability to— this is, you know, this is a marathon. This is not a sprint. This is a lifelong journey. This isn't just a 2-month occurrence, right? So these are the types of things that help you build that internal strength, that internal reservoir of, I can do this, I'm available, and my child knows that I'm available. And they understand that I need time right now. So I just wanted to circle back to that because I really appreciated you saying that, and I think that is so very critical because that was a very big thing for me to realize that I could do and, um, really, really helped in our not only communication with Connor but the rest of my kids as well.

I'm glad you put, like, just paused on that because I've learned two very important things from that just in working with families. One is that you're modeling some self-care behavior and you're showing them that this needs to be some thought behind it. There needs to be some examination behind it. You're modeling that piece of taking care of yourself and looking at things from a different perspective. The second lesson I think in there is that kids are not fully developed. Their brains are growing at such a rapid rate. Mm-hmm. They're trying to make connections in their brain between managing emotions, problem-solving situations. They're hyper-focused on themselves in terms of thinking that everyone is scrutinizing everything that they do. Mm-hmm. So when they're coming to you with something, it's important to remember that that's what's going on in that brain. And they don't even know sometimes why they are acting the way that they're acting.

Oh, for sure.

And so one of the things about self-care and boundaries is increasing self-awareness. And so you're helping them walk through that process a little bit of being self-aware and how to be self-aware. And again, these are big things. I mean, this It's not like an easy, like, oh, I'm just going to help them with self-care. I mean, this is pretty big. This is hard for anybody to manage and handle. And again, I can't underscore enough, get help for that. I mean, that's a lot to be doing.

It is a lot. And it takes, again, it takes time, right? It takes practice. It takes revisiting again and again and, you know, pointing things out and, you know, observing and sharing your observations with them, modeling, you know, like you said, we need to model that. And, and as we are all in different stages of self-care, learning how to take care of ourselves, Being very open and vulnerable about that with our kids is huge because for them to see that we are not perfect, that we are— not only are we willing to continue learning throughout our lives, that we are willing to make mistakes, that we are willing to apologize when we make a mistake if it hurts somebody, right? If it affects somebody. All of these things are— well, humanizes us. And I also think, and maybe, maybe there's some cool scientific research out there for this, but this is just my gut feeling that it, it deepens that connection.

Yes, absolutely. And that, that's probably another podcast to go into.

That'll be the next episode with Diane. This is specifically on boundaries. The next one will be something else fabulous. We'll come up with something.

I do want to circle back real quick about safety because that, you know, number one priority for us with teens is keeping them safe. And if at any point that you feel your teen is not safe, please reach out because there is help available. There is treatment that works and you know, just in terms of not feeling that isolation and that piece of not knowing there are people available, you know, 911, the ER room, there's all kinds of hotlines, you know, mental health organizations in the community. I think you're probably going to provide some of these links afterwards.

Absolutely.

And then I know The Trevor Project is something that you and I have talked about.

Yes, love them.

To share them for your teen and, um, anyone 25 years and younger. So they're— I mean, they can call, chat, text 24/7. They're available.

They are phenomenal. And they also have extraordinary resources on their website for you, for parents. Um, and so definitely, you know, tab them, bookmark them, have them just sitting open on your desktop because they— I love them so much. They have been absolutely invaluable. I only wish I had known of them sooner. Um, and, and Diane is, you know, absolutely right, that their safety, our child— children's safety is number one. There was a point where that was all we were worried about was Connor's safety. And he was not only engaged in some very dangerous behavior, he was also in a place mental health place that was so— he spiraled so very quickly, had suicidal ideation, extreme depression, um, did attempt. And our sole focus at the time, you know, was kind of throwing out everything else, you know, forget supporting the fact that you're coming out and figuring that out. It was how do we get this kid safe and how do we get this kid the help he needs right this minute. I mean, I cannot emphasize, reiterate, you know, what Diane said more. And, and that's— and that is exactly what we did. And, you know, in his case specifically, we needed to move him from where, where we are. We had to put him someplace else. You know, that's not the solution for everybody, but that was the solution that we needed for Connor at the time. And this is something that, you know, I know I've teased that Connor is gonna be coming back on again, and this is something that he does want to talk about himself, so I'm gonna let him share share the details of that with you, but just so you know, from a parental standpoint, that their safety— we just cannot say it enough— that is the number one priority. So thank you for circling back to that. I do appreciate it.

And know that they have already faced some sort of bullying or harassment or discrimination.

Absolutely.

We hear that from every single LGBTQ teen. Mm-hmm. On some level, they are facing it. And I will tell you the power of family and the connectionness. It's being connected to family is such a safety net. When I say safety, it is one of the highest underlying factors of preventing suicide.

Yes, you are. You are absolutely right. I think, you know, this is something that I have thought over dozens, hundreds of times over the past 3 years as everything has unfolded. And we did go through that time with Connor, and I've, you know, often thought, what could we have done more to make our home feel safer, for him to truly understand that we loved him unconditionally, that we supported him. You know, where did we kind of miss that? I still don't have an answer to that. I wish that I did, that I could tell you. The only thing that I do know, which has come from, you know, many hours of working with other professionals with Connor, is that this is their journey. And sometimes it doesn't matter what they're going through internally, what they're processing, what from, you know, what they've been told from the earliest of ages, what they're being told at school, what they're being told, you know, what they're hearing on social media, whatever, wherever it is mixed with it. There is so much shame and mixed with just how they're, they're built, you know, how they are wired, like we talked about in the last episode, you know, they're, they're wired in so many different ways, mentally, physically, emotionally. I really thought, you know, I could love Connor so much that I could take away all of that pain, that I could help him just let go of that shame. But, you know, what I'd learned was that that was internal work he had to do, and he had to want to do it. And before he could even recognize, before he could allow in what we were wanting to give him. So I know that's very deep. Sorry, guys, went off on a little bit of a tangent, but I just— just in case there's anybody else out there who is, you know, has a kid like Connor and you're feeling like 'Ah, you know, what do I do?' Having that professional support for them is huge, and continuing to be vigilant, also huge. So it's journey, it's a journey, it's okay.

And maybe pivot that thought a little bit, just in terms of when you're saying, 'What did we miss?' And instead of that, thinking about the added supports to put in and move forward. Because, you know, I think it just shifts a little bit in terms of just this natural instinctive, I guess, guilt that parents carry.

Mm-hmm. For sure.

Ability feeling. And it's like you said, it's, it's not all of that. So it's, it's kind of thinking that, come, like, just that thought process a little bit differently in terms of what can we add in, right?

I like that very much. Thank you. And I think that's very helpful for me going forward, right? For everyone Listening, really, really important. This is the end of part 1 of my interview with Diane. I hope you enjoyed it and look forward to part 2 in 2 weeks. I just want to thank you so much for joining us today, and just a reminder to just breathe. Taking a few minutes each day to focus on your breath and calm and center yourself will give you so much strength and clarity. Please subscribe to and review Just Breathe and share with anyone who needs to know that they are not alone. Until next time.